S4 E3 How To Choose A Sink Tip

In this episode of RIO's "How To" series, brand manager Simon Gawesworth talks about all the different types of sink tips that are on the market, and how to choose the best one for your fishing situation, fly size and line choice.
Clearly explained in Simon's easy-going, simple-to-understand style, this film takes out a lot of the mystery and confusion that exists for anglers when choosing, or buying a sink tip for their Spey rod.
RIO's "How To" videos are a series of short films that explain all you need to know to learn a particular way to fish or cast. Where applicable, each film talks through the gear that you need, shows how to rig the gear, how to read the water, and how to fish that particular technique. These educational films are packed with information and top tips designed to improve the knowledge and skill level of all fly fishers. Each one is bought to you by a RIO employee or a RIO brand ambassador.

[@anonym1anonym243]

Finally. As a novise in the two-handed world, mr gawesworth explained it all in 14 minuttes. Thank you rio for increasing my "un-confusion" phase....

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Thanks for your comment, and glad the video helped in some way.

[@MichaelKuczynski-u7o]

4 years later I’m watching. I’ve been two handed fishing now for ten years primarily Skagit and some scandi and this presentation confirms what I have learned in those 10 years about lines and leaders . You can really tell the difference when you have your rod , line and leaders in sync with the flies you’re casting. Every fly shop should provide you with this link when a person starts their adventure in two handed fishing it would be very helpful for the beginners and save them some time , money and frustration.Thanks for sharing.

[@johnmeyer6197]

Great video. I would like more of these. Thank you again.

[@williamblair2934]

I know I am watching this 3 years later but I want to thank you and compliment you on your excellent ability to teach without a sense of areogance

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Thank you William!

[@vire559]

Gotta save this to my favourite list. tks for your tips

[@KevinGarrigan]

excellent as always Simon! thanks a million

[@txoutdoorsman65]

Extremely well-presented. Thank you.

[@jimbrandley6060]

Very helpful! Helps me to match tips to lines and flies better.

[@tommurray3974]

Thank you for your double haul videos, I’ve struggled with timing and shooting line on the back cast for many years, I think I may have cracked it at last with the aid of your simple videos. I would also appreciate any comments you can make regarding shooting heads. I live in Scotland and fish mainly still waters with a 10 foot Hardie’s Demon Sintrix 330 #6 rod. Several of the reservoirs I fish have high banks and bushes behind causing problems with back casts. I’ve been experimenting with single-handed spey casting but need some sort of scandi/skagit line to make it work. Being a true Scot, I am reluctant to spend quite a lot of my cash on a line which might not suit my rod (and Hardie have been singularly uncooperative) so I have been attempting to make my own by chopping different length bits off a #8 ‘mill end’ line and attaching them to a thin running line. I’ve had some success but it would be very helpful if I had some idea of where to start as regards length and weight of head to suit my rod (trial and error can get very tedious and probably doesn’t produce the best results). Have you any suggestions? I’d be prepared to spend the cash on a Rio line if I knew it would match my rod. Incidentally, I normally fish a floating line and swap leaders to suit conditions. Tom M

[@JamesSmith-hs1ch]

Thank you for making sense on picking the right leader!

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Happy to help!

[@m.azzettiphotography]

Thank you! I believe that for an Italian angler that understand not so good English it is better if you do a table excel or something... put on your website.

[@zendavid2205]

Good clear info from one of the best! Thanks Simon ...well done again mate.

[@BalaguerV]

You read my mind! Just what I needed!

[@Gus48]

Perfect, thanks for this great explication.

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

You're welcome.

[@PeachyFlyFishing]

Thanks guys, very informative!

[@bigron8346]

Thank you Simon.

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Thanks for your comment, Ron

[@salmo802]

great video, thankyou

[@markcoffey5066]

Great help .If your setting up a scandi out fit must you take the weight of the polyleader into account or is that a skagit outfit

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Not for a polyleader - at least as far as weight goes, they are too light to influence the weight enough to matter. As far as length, though, yes. Adding a 10ft polyleader effectively increases your head length by those 10ft.

[@MicroLosi]

I want this video to be shown right behind stand with tips in my local fly fishing store. Meanwhile I need to fix all my lines and polyleaders combinations. Thank you!

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

No problem!

[@ShotawayFilms]

Brilliant Simon.

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Thanks - glad you like the film :)

[@ShotawayFilms]

@@RIOPRODUCTS It is a veritable land of confusion Simon which is difficult even for seasoned fishers especially those with a few miles on the clock to understand.Safely in my bookmarks now.👍

[@vieiteiro1]

Hello Rio Please, on my Skagit Head grains, should I add the grains on the mow tips or T14 as well the replacement leaders for Scandi to match the grains window over my rod blank? Thank you!!

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

No, use the right grain weight Skagit head for the rod, and don't worry about the weight of the tip. The tip rarely forms part of the D-loop so doesn't contribute to the rods load, thus should not be taken into account.

[@andreasarmyrantis5905]

I have a Loomis nrx 10' #8 and use guideline 4D compact multitip system, depending if i use 12 gram (180 grain) or 14 gram (210 grain) float belly + tip 7 gram (105 grain) the total line weighs between 19 and 21 grams, i would like to try a skagit set up, should i use 300 grain or 275 grain belly? The rod does seem to be quickest with relative lighter weights, and should i use replacement tips or mow tips?

[@Flyfishthebordersandbeyond]

Great video

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Thanks Stuart - glad you like it

[@tombrooks1819]

A replacement tip on a Scandi is usually a terrible idea, unless that Scandi is a tipless Scandi Body head or the Scandi VersiTip, because a full Scandi already has a tip built into it, so in essence you are doubling the tip. Also, in the first Skagit GameChanger vid Simon says to use either the replacement tips or MOWs on them.

[@diegocarsalade6653]

Wow! Complex!

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Yeah, sadly it is, Diego

[@jeffcollins1172]

I have a question about lines, for bass in lakes. Say I’m fishing for suspended bass at 6-8 ft in 12 foot of water using a 7 weight rod and unweighted fly? Is the a chart that shows what to use?

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Sadly not, Jeff. We have one in our old catalog, but nothing on line. Not too hard to work out, though, if you know how many inches per second a line sinks. For example an intermediate sinks about 2" per second, so 6 seconds per foot, which means you have to leave it about 36 seconds to get 6ft down - with an unweighted fly! A type 6 sinks at 6" per second, so would only take about 12 seconds to get the same depth. Retrieve speed then plays a major part, so a fast retrieve will pull the intermediate up from 6ft to only a couple of feet, while a really slow retrieve would mean the Type 6 would keep sinking as you retrieve and go a lot deeper than 6ft. Complicated, I know, but those are the two factors you want to consider when choosing a sinking line.

[@benjackson991]

What would you do if you had a lighter skagit head of around 200 grains on a single handed rod but also a large fly and needed to get down quickly? Could you still use a T11 or T14 rather than a T8? cheers

[@jds4935]

Do you attach zinc lines to the backing or to the throwing line? And with what knot do you attach them? With which knot do you attach the tippet to the zinc line?? 🙏

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Attach the sink tip to the shooting head, no knot needed as it's a loop to loop connection. For tippet to sink tip you can either tie a blood knot, or add in a tippet ring, and just tie your favorite knot to that. Hope that helps clear it up. Cheers!

[@jds4935]

@@RIOPRODUCTSSo if I understand correctly, is a shooting head always needed first with every type of fly fishing? Whether you’re fishing with dry fly, nymph or streamer? Bedankt!!!!🙏

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

@@jds4935 Only if you're fishing a two handed rod and swinging.

[@jds4935]

@@RIOPRODUCTS And with a one-handed rod how do you mount a sinker? A shooting head is the throwing line, right?

[@brockwilson3446]

I'm trying to get a versatile set up for my 4wt trout spey to cover just about any condition. I have a scandi and skagit head but trying to figure out what tips I should have at my disposal. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brock.

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

The Skagit head will throw heavier tips easily, so go with that for larger flies, or weighted streamers and the Light MOW tips, or T-8. The Scandi will be better for presentation, so best with soft hackles, light streamers and nymphs. The best tips on those are probably the VersiLeaders.

[@FlyFishingChronicles]

Hey @rioproducts what style/kind of heads to use with a #3 Skagit line for my #3 Trout Spey?

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Check out our trout spey collection at rioproducts.com, there are several options of skagit or spey combinations, usually ranging from 250-300 grains for a 3wt.

[@mdaley3102]

Boy are you right, this is complicated. Is there a chart somewhere that can be referred to for all this. If so, please point me in the right direction. Thank you

[@cliffords9422]

Ok, now I know why I stay confused. You say that the replacement tips should be used with a scandi line...........everything I've heard before this has told me to use replacement tips with a skagit system and use versileaders with scandis. The replacement tips don't have different sections like some of the mows as far as i know, but I thought they were more like a mow that doesn't have weighted sections but is somewhat tapered on the end toward the fly. Can you see why I'm finding all tip stuff so confusing. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you.

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Totally can, and fully understand that. It is very confusing for sure. Your basic summary is correct - you can use replacement tips on Skagit heads, as well as "MOW' and "T" tips, and you can use VL's on the front of regular Scandi heads. However some Scandi heads are cut back about 10 feet from the front end, and have a loop put in, and with those heads, you can certainly add a replacement tip - just substituting it for the 10ft that was cut off.. Does that make any sense at all?

[@cliffords9422]

Thank you for the reply. I watch a lot of Simon's presentations and think he does a great job, it is most helpful. I rewatched the video and unless I missed something he didn't discuss a cutback type versitip scandi system but said that you could use the Replacement tips with a scandi line. In the future when the video is updated it's something to be aware of as it did add to confusion for me. I appreciate that line manufacturers want to sell product and the technology is constantly being worked on to improve performance and I have no problem with that. For a newbie one of the issues is buying lines, tips, etc. that don't actually work out and then wind up sitting in a box . My guess is anyone who is in the spey game has plenty of these. It may be unavoidable as balancing these systems can be tricky but is also part of the fun. Ultimately it may be counter productive to manufacturers as it increases the cost and may keep people out of the game.

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

@@cliffords9422 That is an excellent call, and something we passed on to Simon. He said he really appreciated you passing this on, and was sorry he missed that part out. It should most certainly have been part of the conversation!

[@rudigerhahn9331]

Thanks for the very interesting Präsentation, now i anderstand….👍

[@thibod07]

Awesome video! Thank you for producing it. I agree with you as long as we keep in mind that those leaders are all about mass to carry the fly forward and density which impact the sink rate then it is not as complicated. The fun part is using the right product to deliver the fly gently which sink at the right depth even when god the environment and the river does its best to prove you wrong. 😁😁😁😁

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

Well said!

[@tonymaxwell949]

and he loves the tips

[@billlane8794]

But is a 8 scandi tip two heavy for an 8 weight scandi line

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

It would be too heavy on the front of a regular Scandi head, yes. If it was a VersiTip style one, or an 8wt head, chopped back a few feet to get to the thicker section, it would work fine. Having said that, you could put it on a regular head, and work really hard and get it to fish, but it certainly wouldn't be balanced.

[@williamblair2934]

What does MOW stand for?

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

McCune, O'donnell, and Ward, the creaters of this tip system.

[@regularSenseAppeal]

So can we agree that for pure sink speed it goes like this : T-tips > MOW tips > versi-leaders?

[@RIOPRODUCTS]

It all depends on the length and the tip type. If you're fishing a level MOW tip, with no floating section it will have the same sink rate of a T-tip if the lengths are equal. The highest versileader sink rate of 7" per second is 1" slower than the lowest MOW tip of T8 which is 8" per second, so you're right on there. Hope this helps. Cheers!

[@regularSenseAppeal]

@@RIOPRODUCTS Thanks a lot!

[@tonymaxwell949]

and he likes to get down

[@pr0faker]

Well Now I know I wasted a few bucks on a t14 that I can't properly cast without a decent skagit line...

[@salmotheleaper7817]

Four more armchair experts leaving their obnoxious jealousy fueled thumbs down, PATHETI!!