Even the latest printers still have this MAJOR bug!!

#glitch
#resin
#tips
▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:42 - S3U
2:00 - S4U
3:12 - Fast or Slow?
4:03 - The BUG!
5:02 - The Test to find the bug
My 3D Printing Guide for all your needs!
bottom. bit.ly/3VEBuaW
Join me on the Lychee Slicer Discord - Derek J3DTech | Lychee Team
bit.ly/3ZP9z6Y
Support my efforts by buying my favorite resin. Siraya Tech Navy Gray though my affiliated link. (Not a sponsor)
Siraya - Tech Navy Gray 90%
siraya.tech/pr...
Siraya - Tech 10% Tenacious Obsidian Black
siraya.tech/pr...

[@J3DTech]

The Glitch found has been an ongoing research project for over a year with help from aWildTomAppeared, REF and Meowcate and others on the LycheeSlicer discord. At RAPID + TCT I was finaly able to get into contact with the Elegoo Engineering team. I will soon be sending them all of our data where we hope we can work to find fix. For now if you avoid AA and .goo OR like I said in the video, straight lines on the X axis you may never come across the glitch. I would not classify this as a major issue due to it's infrequent appearance but a minor issue as it's also pretty easy to get around. Howerever, Elegoo, you could make this time to start a print dry or normal a bit faster......

[@MayaTlab]

Thanks for highlighting this issue ! I personally would still consider it a major issue, because not only do people need to be aware of it to circumvent it, they'll need to do dry runs to make sure that any modification they bring to their files is successful, or risk another failure again. Basically, they'll have to fiddle instead of being able to follow one clear simple rule to avoid it. I really hope all the hard work you and others have done to detail that problem will pay off and that a proper solution will be found (and not just for the M5U/S4U BTW, but their regular printers as well).

[@lolofx21]

Hi! Im in need of some help I started 3d printing almost a year ago and have experienced the same situation with 3 different printers, spots and kind of scuffs appearing on the lcd screen the latest one on my 3 months old S3U and it also happened on my S2 I dont know whats going on? I dont actually have problem printing all my models prints perfectly but my screen gets damaged over time and then the spots translate as holes to my model which is really a bummer because I enjoy the hobby but I never knew why it happened to my Saturn2 and now its happening to my S3U. The only thing that comes to mind is that maybe I pressed a little too hard when leveling the build plate? I leveled with the paper method. O mayber my settings are incorrect? Currently my settings for Sunlu Standard Grey are Burn in layer Normal layer Number of layers: 5 layer thickness: 50um Exposure time: 40s Exposure time: 3s Trans Layer Count: 10 Lift Distance 3>3 mm Lift Distance: 3>3 mm Retract Distance 3>3 mm Retract Distance: 3>3 mm Lift Speed: 80>240 mm Lift Speed: 80>240 mm Retract Speed: 240>80 Retract Speed: 240>80 mm Wait before print: 1 Sorry for this comment I'm basically losing my mind because I have made a lot of research but to no avail, and all I have learned has been by watching videos but I need some more clarification on why my printers only last a couple of months, I have been making 1/6 and 1/4 scales and I would like to continue making them and been confident that I wont end up screwing up my printers, using lychee slicer btw, hope you can help me out with this little situation I'm experiencing and thanks a lot in advance!

[@J3DTech]

@@lolofx21 have you read my guide? docs.google.com/document/d/1aoMSE6GBGMcoYXNGfPP9s_Jg8vr1wQmmZuvqP3suago/edit?usp=drivesdk

[@lolofx21]

@@J3DTech i did but I still have some questions boss 😔 I myself dont encounter problems printing, all models print fine, but the screen gets damaged over time and still dont know why

[@J3DTech]

@@lolofx21 1. Follow my workflow with the soft silicone spatula before every print. 2. Clean any failure using the VAT clean method. 3. Use my bills plate Calibration prints to set the Z offset to reduce FEP damage and increase success rates. 4. Calibrate using Boxes of Calibration for the best strength you can get while maintaining dimensional accuracy. This will also increase the life of the FEP and LCD. I have a LOT of workflows all designed to get better prints, More success, and keep your printing going for a very long time. See my shorts as well. The tips and tricks to use tape to keep your printer clean and running well. Oh and how I level on the FEP is also to keep the LCD clean.

[@OnceinaSixSide]

Fascinating! I've seen this issue pop up before and figured something had to be bugging out to cause it. Awesome to see it nailed down and demonstrated so clearly, and hopefully Chitu can pull their thumbs out and get it resolved. Btw a good way to get more eyeballs on this video would be to really highlight the issue in the title and thumbnail: Resin 3D printers still can't print this SIMPLE test! Or maybe something like: Even the latest printers still have this MAJOR bug!! And show that lovely lasagne fail in the thumbnail lol.

[@J3DTech]

@@OnceinaSixSide That's a good headline! I was trying to think of something as this video is really a 2 in one. I also plan on making a short as well where I just highlight the ending. Updated, thanks for the advice!

[@JameTek]

Hey! Whatcha doing watchin youtube, you've got a job to do.

[@J3DTech]

@@JameTek Work work

[@UriskOfTheFae]

Damn, that's some serious shift! Definitely a problematic glitch that I'm glad to be aware of before upgrading my printer

[@Foxenkraft]

It is increasingly difficult to find a decent printer, and those of us who have businesses based on this technology are suffering a lot of problems.

[@J3DTech]

@@Foxenkraft I'm now working on testing that Auto leveling of all of these systems

[@Foxenkraft]

@@J3DTech I only trust your experience, I will wait for your analysis

[@NoizieWorks]

I have seen it glitch out where it would start exposing 3/4 of the screen when i want to do flat prints (jupiter) Most of the time, it's random with a re slice to fix it. Didn't experience this however, thanks for bringing it up!

[@Meowcate]

I am so disappointed. We start telling Elegoo about that before the S4/S4U first releases, and that changed nothing, even the expected effect of the 8GB upgrade didn't changed a thing while the screen stayed the same. And the way we need to run a dry print... I'll say it again, the S4/S4U is a toy. Ok, most mainstream resin printers aren't high-quality engineering, but this is bad when you want to make your printer simple for the common user (which is great, really) but you block the power user to really get into the details. Good video, you went into details to explain how it works, and how to try it. Did you compared the different tests AWildTomAppeared created ? maybe some generates the bugs on the S3U, but it's still safe for the S4U ? I'd be a little happier if there was at least a small improvement. (Also, do you ever use this S3U ? how do you do to keep this thing so clean ? resin splits are so hard to clean up)

[@J3DTech]

@@Meowcate I printed quite a few different things on the S4U and this was the most simple to show off. No need to make it complex for a video like this. I'm not a fan it takes almost 3 minutes between every dry print test.. makes running the test take forever. I use my S3U all the time but I keep my tape on the front so any drips are easily removed. I also keep plastic wrap on all my covers inside and out for easy cleaning of a static pull gets the resin on the cover.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

Just found your channel and I am blown away. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!

[@J3DTech]

@@PatrickHoodDaniel Thank you! A lot of my content can also be found on the Lychee Slicer KZbin.

[@PatrickHoodDaniel]

@@J3DTech good to know. Thanks.

[@JerryBWagoner]

I learned something new today. Thank you.

[@J3DTech]

That's the goal!

[@BleughBleugh]

Subbed! Never would have realised!

[@Aura.ad.Infinitum]

I remember this happening to me four or so years ago on the basic Anycubic Photon when I was still fairly new into the whole 3D printing stuff. That was quite the headscratcher. Nothing I could think of besides the screen possibly being faulty made sense as a cause of the failure (but that got ruled out when other prints finished fine afterwards). Just stared at the failed print like what in the actual F happened there?! Tried searching online for people with similar issues and only managed to find a couple photos looking like that with people asking what went wrong, but no answers The fail was so damn weird that I still remember it clearly...and now the issues has finally been explained and put to rest Thanks! ^^

[@J3DTech]

Yep, and sadly it will effect all printers as they do get the LCD's from the same place. Anycubic are less effected then the others. In my test most of the newer Anycubic Printers will error or crash. I don't have all of them so I'm unable to test everythign.

[@Aura.ad.Infinitum]

@@J3DTech Oh, that's good to know. Spent the past few days figuring out what my next printer will be (still sitting on that original Photon. Inherited a used Saturn 2 from a friend, but it died a month ago). Most likely gonna go with the M7 Pro... which should be able to pick up from where it ended after power loss. So I wonder...if this happens and it errors out and/or crashes...will it also be able to pick up from the last layer? That would be useful. Unless it just proceeds to immediately crash again on retry of that layer :D

[@TashiMortier]

Wow thank you so much for the work you put into researching this issue! I had it last week and on the weekend and it was driving me crazy. So much resin wasted. :( Guess I'll just print without AA for now... it never happened on the first layers for me so I would have to watch the printer for hours in a dry run that's really not acceptable.

[@J3DTech]

@@TashiMortier When you ran into it where you using .CTB or .Goo?

[@TashiMortier]

@@J3DTech CTB Files, I knew Goo was cursed from my first tries of just printing the most simple models with AA on, just 4 tableflip foundry pucks on the four edges of the printer.

[@J3DTech]

@@TashiMortier why that lol

[@TashiMortier]

@@J3DTech I can send you a picture if you are interested. It looked as if Cthulhu was being summoned

[@J3DTech]

@@TashiMortier Lol yeah I think I need to see that

[@davidc3150]

Great video. I had a similar if not THE BUG happened to me. However my build plate was crowded with models. What would be the advise? Only fill the build plate on the slicer up to 80-90% and try to look out for places where you would get several lines oncurring on the X axis? Or what would be the advise to keep in my for everyday printing (if it is one model i get it, just shift it to go inclined instead of mostly horizontal, but if its several models, whats your advice?)

[@J3DTech]

I seee it on that type of print as well, if you have rafts or a lot of models that stack up to create a line of lit pixles on the X. Try to move them around to be staggered. But also, .goo + AA will make it happen a lot more often.

[@tali3san337]

You might have just explained why when I had a print failure with a Saturn 2 a while ago that when I changed settings and ran again, it appeared in a similar place and have seen a similar thing on the Saturn 4 Ultra with a packed plate. I'm guessing what's happening here is there is the data going to the display is being compressed and regions of high variation don't compress as well, resulting in glitches when sending the data to the LCD controller. It's either reading the data off the memory stick/internal memory too slowly, or it can't send the data fast enough, basically the system can't keep up with the files bitrate. If it's a hardware limitation, it could be fixed in the slicer software, by ensuring that the file was checked before printing, by running each layer through the same compression algorithm and checking for areas with too much complexity (effectively too high a bitrate).

[@J3DTech]

You pretty much nailed it. The slicer and help by not having as many gray values. Maybe converting it to 8bit vs 16bit. But this would hurt AA quality. Another Post check would be to look at the .png stack in X axis rows and if seens a Value reager then X of variation to then try and correct it by removing gray. However you can trigger this with No gray, just White and black over X value. IN that there is little you can do other then warn the user of the layer that has the issue and offer a suggestion of fix. A LOT of dev work for something that really needs to be fixed on the hardware level.

[@tali3san337]

@@J3DTech The other thing I guess to think about when working around this bug is the size and number of supports. A dense mesh of small supports, especially if they are just larger than a pixel would drive up the bitrate. The joys of what is probably a form or run length encoding. For vertical supports, you could probably gain a lot by simply making the profile square, ot just not anitailasing the support in particular... heck, it might make them stonger. I'm not sure why you would use even more than 4 bits per pixel. It's not like you are viewing the image, it's moderating the amount of curing the resin gets, an while it might soften the resin some and result in some gradiation between adjacent pixels, I have a hard time thinking more than 16 values would matter.

[@J3DTech]

@@tali3san337 Grid supports all the way!

[@pwgreene]

I encountered this issue today on my brand new Saturn 4 Ultra when I had a pretty full plate printing. Unfortunately my FEP ended up getting pierced so I'm completely out of commission for a bit.

[@J3DTech]

That sucks, I'm sorry. I have sent the data to Elegoo so they should be able to see if it can be fixed in firmware. But there is a chance that it simply cant be resolved without replacement hardware.

[@pwgreene]

I guess for now I'll just be printing without AA and hoping for the best. Thanks for raising awareness on this.

[@Aztechnology.]

Not something I had any idea about, nor about running a dry print. As always, the hole keeps getting deeper lol. I am planning to start printing with ultra 4 soon, but as it was so cold, I wanted to get a brewers belt (as the mini heater was delayed for me until August, so I cancelled it). So any and all preflight checklist ideas, tuning adjustments etc are all welcome. It’s a very different printer due to the rocking mechanism and auto zeroing functionality. So I’m not sure what I do, or don’t need to check/tune using your awesome guide! So far I just added a handle, fume extraction and a drip tilt/handle I printed using my fdm printer, plus it’s just way easier to hold the plate/remove it. Really awesome addition as with this printer especially I feel you need to let it bleed off a bit after prints because of that middle section where resin is trapped.

[@J3DTech]

@@Aztechnology. I also printed the hanger for the S4U. I think it's going to make a great addition. In the next few days I plan on doing another short video about layer compression on these auto leveling printers. But after that I really want to focus on the good parts.

[@Aztechnology.]

@@J3DTech another channel Geek Detour, recently covered the Saturn ultra and Mars ultra. He made some physical modifications but did mention the corner screws did allow fine tune adjustments to build plate level. Unsure if that’s true, but he seemed to think so. I’d imagine given how it auto zero’s that wouldn’t help much with the layer compression though. Are you aware of any way to fine tune that, or is it just the nature of the printer?

[@J3DTech]

@@Aztechnology. I saw that, If mine has the z offset issue will try a few different things. But I'm going after the source and working with Elegoo to see if they have the ability to add it back into the firmware.

[@Aztechnology.]

@@J3DTech Awesome, that’s definitely the way to do it if possible. Thank you!

[@MayaTlab]

@@J3DTech "In the next few days I plan on doing another short video about layer compression on these auto leveling printers." Looking forward to it ! I think that it's important to highlight why that's an issue even for people who don't print parts directly on the plate but on supports, because I already know what Elegoo and others will tell us ("blablabla don't print on the plate, the printer isn't made for it..."). In conjonction with problematic first layer operations that make the first layer thicker than it needs to be, the compression of the subsequent layers seems to me to potentially increase the bed adhesion failure rate (as the first layer's resin remains quite soft where it meets the plate, but then the compression for the subsequent layers means gross overexposure for them, as you're repeatedly curing the same thickness), and I'm also wondering how hard these overexposed compressed layers affect the release film (which would be ironic on the M5U/S4U as one advantage that's been advanced for the tilt mechanism is it being more gentle on the release film during lift operations).

[@maayu8108]

Cool, you LCD works.. mine came not working.

[@J3DTech]

That sucks! Hopefully you get a speedy replacement.

[@snarkyarts8182]

Glad I've not had a lasagna issue yet, but good to know how to keep my models oriented to prevent it. 🍻

[@J3DTech]

@@snarkyarts8182 I have had it 2x naturally on my S3U both times with .goo. but I'm also not using my printers the same way most people do.

[@therealjonaswp602]

Whoa...this is crazy. Will .goo be okay to use without AA, or should .goo be avoided all together? Also, if I may ask - what is the difference between .ctb and .goo? I can't seem to find that info on your website. (I might be blind though) Oh and you just got another sub :)

[@J3DTech]

@@therealjonaswp602 It's mostly ok without AA

[@honda1st1]

Great tip about the diagonal lay out. Deffonetly going to try it. Now 1 silly question. Is the dry print the same settings as a typical print. Or do you use different lift speeds to speed it up or is there a specific file/stl i should use like the one you use

[@J3DTech]

@@honda1st1 Depends on what you're testing. Just the LCD or a glitch like this. No need to expose for more than a second or lift at all. If you want to test everything run it at exactly the same settings.

[@baldurironshield5083]

that is a crazy amount of shifting. i thought it would have been mm difference.

[@awildtomappeared5925]

it's even more with .goo

[@J3DTech]

For some it will glitch back and forth during the UV exposure time.

[@SpentAmbitionDrain]

Paper or no paper - use protective eyewear people.

[@J3DTech]

When I use my UV sensor, I get 4.0 mW on the S4U, with just the paper over the LCD, it gets a reading of 0mW. I do agree to use glasses and I use them when I'm doing all my testing. But this test is consistent with all my other tests. The Paper blocks most of the UV. The UV sensor I have is the CHitubox one, but I just orderd a $600 one to get me even better data.

[@runklestiltskin_2407]

I had this back in the days on my anycubic mono X 6k, until anycubic provided a special firmware.

[@J3DTech]

@@runklestiltskin_2407 It does effect Anycubic as well but not to the same extent. Most other printers will crash and stop printing.

[@runklestiltskin_2407]

​@@J3DTechwell, the shift of 3mm was enough for supports to fail, but yes, this glitch as shown is insane

[@xeraoh]

So If I understand right you recommend not to print parallel with the X axis and rotate the print object to avoid this bug but ppl are really printing parallel with the build plate? The basic rule of thumb for resin printing since ages is to always rotate the printed object (ideal angle calculators online, less pulling force etc…) ppl just ignore these and print parallel than complaining wow

[@J3DTech]

@@xeraohYou're talking about on the Z axis to help prevent layer lines. But really that's also misinformation unless you're printing a cube. When it comes to orientation look for Y or V shapes. Avoid shallow angles on X, Y or Z. Keep faces and more visible areas pointing up vs down. Let the model be it's own support when possible. All these objectives rank higher than one surface being at the perfect angle to reduce stepping.

[@Joe-Skynet]

I remember this happening to me on the first Elegoo Mars, but only after many hours of use and changing the screen would fix it. luckly it hassen´t happended on my latest printers but it´s good to know!. Also I spotted that awesome handle you have on the Sat4 Ultra, but couldn´t find it online.

[@J3DTech]

Here you go makerworld.com/en/models/535082

[@Joe-Skynet]

@@J3DTech thanks

[@anthonyrodriguez2570]

Has .ctb with anti aliasing enabled been tested? Thank you so much I finically feel like I’m not crazy. I was about to spend $100 to replace my M4u screen after I disconnected and reconnected the lcd screen.

[@J3DTech]

@@anthonyrodriguez2570 .CTB with AA can still cause the issue but it's not as often as .goo. The issue can even trigger with no AA but it's greatly reduce.

[@eddiexx]

J, could you pls help with this. What is the difference between "Gray Scale Level" and "Image Blur Pixel" (Chitubox)? Im printing some knobs flat (because its the only way to get them really perfectly circular) and need to round off the layer lines a bit, specially on the flat tops. I would like it to smooth it out as much as possible but i dont know which of these two settings is the one im supposed to increase. Cheers

[@J3DTech]

@@eddiexx Unfortunately AA won't help much with stepping. It can a little bit not much. You will need to reduce the lawyer thickness to 30um or 20um then calibrate to see any real difference. I'm not 100% sure in Chitubox but on Lychee for best results do HD AA with 2px and 0% gray.

[@eddiexx]

@@J3DTech Oh i see, MANY thanks for taking the time and responding. Now i know what i could test and see how it works :)

[@franklima]

Got to love Shit-u-box's great software. /S

[@J3DTech]

@@franklima it is forgivable at this creeped up on them as we went from 4 k to 12K very fast. However I first noticed this Saturn 3 very early on and I have spent a great deal of time trying to send information over to Elegoo and CBOX to notify them of the issue but it wasn't until very recently that I was able to really get a sit-down conversation and show them the research.

[@franklima]

@@J3DTech their device firmware has been pretty ok, but the desktop slicer has been bug ridden for years. Usablility issues like not respecting window behavior and broken crl + z functionality nevermind the random crashes and file corruption issues. If the printer file standard was open source and more options existed I would not be as frustrated. Given the closed file format and bad software it is hard to extend much grace.

[@J3DTech]

​@@franklima I work for Lychee Slicer... it's obvious where I sit on that topic. ;) Lychee Slicer for life!

[@malkav_ils]

@@J3DTech do you know if Lychee will add .ctb support for Mars 5 Ultra?

[@J3DTech]

@@malkav_ils We should bit I'll confirm