S5 Autofocus...is it GOOD ENOUGH?

Panasonic promised us a much better AF system… and it delivered! BUT with HUGE caveats. In this episode I’ll explain how Panasonic’s new Auto Focus system works, what improvements they implemented as well as share some tests.
S5 Full Review: • S5...The poor man's S1...
S5 ISO Tests and analysis: • S5 UNEXPECTED ISO test...
MUSIC from Artlist
Get 2 MONTHS FREE (Instead of 1) from the links below:
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=============================
S5: geni.us/DPJS5
S5 Kit: geni.us/F9Di
S5 Battery: geni.us/DPJS5BATTERY
S5 ProRes RAW Kit : kit.co/THE-DP-JOURNEY/s5-kit-...
Check my all my gear Kits: kit.co/THE-DP-JOURNEY
=============================
TIME STAMPS
0:00 Intro
0:10 How AF Works
0:37 S5 AF Improvements
1:06 Drawbacks
1:51 L-Mount Alliance
2:51 Video AF
3:14 AF Test
4:32 Bottom Line
=============================
Transitions used:
Zoom: motionvfx.sjv.io/WmkRM
Slide Shade: motionvfx.sjv.io/6rNor
Camera shift effect: motionvfx.sjv.io/00g93
=============================
ETHICS STATEMENT
A selection of the links above may be affiliate codes, I do appreciate your support for the channel by using these codes while making your purchases as I will receive a small commission at no additional cost to you.
Namely I am a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, and B&H Affiliate program, they are affiliate advertising programs designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com and bhphotovideo.com. Your support will greatly help sustain my channel and make more of these videos.
This video represents my personal opinion and is not sponsored or paid for by any brand or person.
#S5 #AF #Panasonic #S5AutoFocustest #LumixS5 #S5Review #LumixS5AF #DPJ #AutoFocusTest

[@Bombatron]

I cannot stress this enough: your graphical illustrations are better than anything I've seen anywhere - very classy! It goes without saying, your content is excellent as well! Subscribed!

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Thank you so much for your awesome support and compliments. Welcome aboard

[@clifftotten7609]

So,...I left the Sony XDCAM FS7 and A7S-II (Sony contrast AF) and moved to Lumix GH5, S1 and finally S1H. I moved to Lumix to gain it's 10bit color sampling in a small camera and I "tolerated" DfD for a while. This week, I got my A7S-III.....Oh,.....my.....Gawd! I...NOW!...see the huge difference that phase detect AF makes. I could not believe my eyes when I saw how stunning their AF is. I was chasing my dog at 24mm at f1.4 and my mind was blown at how amazing Sony's AF locks on to targets and "stick" like glue! No pulsing, no buzzing, no fluttering....just phase locked on my dogs face no matter how fast he ran. If "this" is what Lumix is now up against in terms of competition? 10bit is now common in 2020. There is no longer a need to "tolerate" DfD any longer. Panasonic, I love you, I realy do but Sorry, this does not bode well. It would be suicided for Panasonic to stay with DfD any longer. You better find some way to negotiate with Sony on PDAF sensor licensing fast. If they agree and play ball?...you will have a fighting chance moving forward. If they dont?......it's over.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Yeah... having the same experience. I still tilll love many things about Pana... something I’ll be discussing in my A7S3 review. Where I’ll compare with S1H. But I totally hear you

[@poonricky5310]

@@THEDPJOURNEY Cant wait for this episode

[@Clickumentary]

I'll maybe wait a year or two to move to 7S3.. when my mad money account is replenished.

[@mariush]

@@THEDPJOURNEY Will miss some of the pro features, shutter angle etc (why can't Sony just add that??) and the button layout, and the overall build quality of Panasonic over Sony. But I'm happily trading that for AF going forward. If the a7IV has 10-bit 4:2:2, which I assume it has, it will get an instant pre-order and I will probably never look at Panasonic. And having the same lenses across mirrorless hybrids, still and pro cine cameras will be amazing. Looking forward to seeing what the FX6 is all about.

[@nine958]

Can you tell me more about the PDAF licensing? Correct me if I'm wrong, But Fuji and Nikon are also using a Sony sensor but they have PDAF.

[@tonytech5520]

What a gorgeous model!!!😍

[@film_insider]

Why is everyone comparing Sony a7siii with Lumix S5?! 4000$ vs 2000$? Even that CEO Panny video guy said that they are making their cameras for professionals. Most Panny users are having PL lenses. They are not chasing the dog that is catching the ball in the air in 240p. Don't know why they are throwing shades on any Lumix camera when there is many many other great options on the market. Canon, Sony and Fuji. They all have great AF. Though, none of them is giving anything near C4K, 4K internal 10bit 422 under 4000$ with the full frame. So, we are at the begining again, they are making these cameras for filmmakers. Just to mention, i have canon r5, Fuji X-T3 and Panasonic S5. So, fanboy is not arround.

[@JoATTech]

Thanks for sharing. I started considering S5, but I need at least 1 camera with good AF. So I guess I'm going to wait another year for A7IV.

[@Clickumentary]

I hope it's good enough.. I just ordered one on BH yesterday. I was holding out for Z6s announcement, but gave up said hope and ordered this little guy. I'm kind of pumped!

[@JK-qv8oq]

Are are you finding it? This video has scared me off buying one for now.

[@diptiman2008]

Thanks for bringing the data as it is...instead of sugar coating it.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Glad you appreciate my honesty and thanks for watching

[@MehmetAliKlc]

PLEASE PANASONIC HEAR US! Reliable autofocus! We are just a step away from the perfect camera!

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Amen 🙏

[@HAlariousInc]

Panasonic has heard and knows. Unfortunately they need to renegotiate sensor patents

[@giacomocastellano-official]

Very cool channel! Amazing animations, may I ask what do you use to animate?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Cheers... I use Keynote

[@batchedited]

Good video! I noticed that in the AF Test footage, the exposure meter is always minus 0, sometimes -1 1/3, and the ISO is really high, usually 4000 or 6400, so I may consider it as low light AF performance. In such condition S5 really struggles. I also tested the AF ability, in low ISO and choose high contrasty picture profile can help improve the AF performance.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Thanks for the comment and the advice. Of course I conducted so many other tests other than this one I shared here to reach my conclusion. I also had many chats with Panasonic trying to confirm the unsatisfactory results. They also mentioned some of the points you, said... but I personally haven’t gotten much better performance after many other attempts

[@OmegaMan17]

So I have a couple of questions here. How good would the autofocus work in a cropped 4K 60 P mode for shooting sports? Next, how difficult would it be to shoot the sample scene with the model with manual focus?

[@aperez4198]

I bought it for stills only so this is great news!

[@alfredknodler540]

Your reviews are always a joy and painfully true in this case. As a S1H-owner I just start crying after the 2.2 firmware update. I own so many EF-lenses too and still wonder if I should forget about the great IBIS, full frame and viewfinder of the LUMIX and get the Canon C70. What is your opinion?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Thank you so much for the awesome comment. Yeah I hear you with the tough choice. Honestly it’s all about what works for you, which is different from one person to the other. C70 looks pretty appealing to me as well. I wish it was full frame though.

[@khanceptbelal]

Are you working on an analysis of the S5ii? Love your perspective.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

I did ask them to send me a unit, but I don’t think they will since I don’t think they were happy with my last video about the GH6 and what I discovered

[@khanceptbelal]

@@THEDPJOURNEY how long do you usually keep a unit for to do all your testing and stuff?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Not less than a month

[@nerdMike]

Two things about AF: hdmi out can reduce AF performance a lot, even burst speed for stills (here we have clips recorded from the hdmi, as I Can see, and no clean output which is better). To get more reliable subject/face tracking usually you need to push center AF joystick button to enable it, or touch the box on the lcd over the subject. Then, the AF box will show 4 additional lines and the performance will be better in both video and stills. Third: putting AF sensitivity near +5 may help for better transitions on the S1/S5. Please let me know if AF performance improved by doing this. 🙂

[@danielsilva.1992]

Gracias por su comentario, me fué muy útil

[@Clickumentary]

Back again to say I just cancelled my BH pre-order today... primarily because of this candid review. Other reviewers have glossed over this glaring performance issue.

[@Bombatron]

I appreciate you taking the time to share your decision. Too many times, people absorb information and don't relay how it impacted their decision making.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

My pleasure... I always make sure not to just read the specs, but rather analyze them and offer my honest opinion. Thanks for watching and I truly appreciate your support

[@JK-qv8oq]

Oh! Did you get a Sony instead?

[@Clickumentary]

@@JK-qv8oq I actually bought a Lumix G9 instead. (I already have 3 m43 cams with various lenses) For the price of the S5 kit I got the G9 with 12-60 kit and a 100-300 (effective 600mm). I'm still kicking myself a little for not stepping up to the S5, but I didn't want to have to invest in a TON of new L mount glass.

[@raksh9]

@@Clickumentary I have to say that the G9 with native lenses has the best autofocus I've seen in any m43 camera, certainly way better than any camera prior to the GH5. But it is still kind of patchy, especially for tracking during video.

[@guillaumevalli5031]

You mention L-Mount alliance pledge, good. But it is only applicable to L-Mount lenses x Bodies. Adapted lenses are not native L-Mount.

[@samdog7619]

hello, how is the center frame disabled, when I put the focus on manual?

[@DiraPictures]

Glad to ordered the A7SIII

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

You’ll enjoy it

[@Brown-Bird]

Yep. The lack of lens support and the horrible video AF is why I dropped my S1 and went to the A7SIII. I do miss Panasonic's hardware and menus through. So much more robust and intuitive.

[@raksh9]

And this is why I hesitate to move from Panasonic to Sony. Panasonic ergonomics and menus are awesome, and I keep reading about how Sony isn't at the same level. But the autofocus of the A7S III or FX3 might be worth giving them up.

[@professionalpotato4764]

Not sure if you'll see this, but I'm quite interested in how you became a DP. I'm trying to become one, but I had no film education background and only picked up a camera last year. Been trying to find local part time diplomas or degrees that could be more industry specific but it's all very generic courses, or they cost too much. Is it possible to become one without formal education?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Hey, my story was more like an evolution from being an art student with oil painting major... then a photographer... then a filmmaker jumping on the 5D video revolution wagon. Drawing and framing the world has been in my blood since I was little. No formal education in filmmaking. But honesty if you have the passion and dedication needed, then KZbin and most of all PRACTICE is all you need

[@AllThingsFilm1]

Have you tried changing any of the Sensitivity or Speed settings of the AF? Did you try using the Tracking mode on her? I've seen other videos where the AF was more consistent and reliable, especially when using tracking. Yes, the AF system doesn't compare to Sony or Canon. But, I've only seen a couple videos where the user tried different AF settings.Often getting nearly perfect results.

[@firehorseweddingphotograph3995]

Link would be useful thanks

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

I did fiddle around yes with it. Again.. in a locked camera setup, you shouldn’t have such results on any setting honeslty

[@PhilHover]

@@THEDPJOURNEY I've heard that if you use the HDMI out on the S5, the autofocus reduces in speed/quality. Also, shooting in vlog reduces the accuracy.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

It is true in photo mode. Which I mentioned as the reason why I couldn’t demonstrate how good the AF is in Photo mode

[@fantabmedia2321]

It works ok often in controlled tests with someone moving forwards/backwards and a predictable speed. Unfortunately in real life it just completely falls to pieces. I'm keeping my S1 and looking forward to the AF improvements in photo mode but seriously considering an SIII for AF.

How long does it take to make each video?😊

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Like a couple of weeks between research/test and design

[@DPashishrana]

Super cool Brown Boys

[@zsoltcselenyi622]

I would argue with your statement about the native Panasonic L-mount lenses are only shining in photo mode. Have you tried the S PRO lenses? They are parfocal, zero focus breathing, linear and adjustable focus throw. I do have all their zooms, and next to the excellent af for stills, they are in the league’s of full frame cinema lenses as well 😉

[@JonPais]

Photography lenses will never replace true cinema glass. The L mount zooms don't even have consistent filter thread diameter or the same length and width dimensions. The front element protrudes when zooming. 😂 They have no gears. They don't have T stop markings. And a dozen other features that are standard on cinema lenses. LOL

[@zsoltcselenyi622]

Jon Pais LOL? Those are hybrid lenses... Did you tried those lenses? Far superior compared to the other offerings from other companies... When it comes to the optical performance they fulfill those cinema lenses parameters for the fraction of their price, with a very few sacrifice

[@mariush]

@@zsoltcselenyi622 Great for still, no doubt. Useless for video with AF though. As CC said, Panasonic had one job...

[@zsoltcselenyi622]

mariush I wrote manual focus use ability of those lenses, with the adjustable and linear throw. Did you saw any cinema lens on the market with autofocus? All the Canon, Sigma, Angenieux, Fujinon cinema lenses or anamorphic lenses... Did you ever tried to use autofocus in a scene with more than one subject? Af is good to film your flowers or static, slow moving subjects.

[@armacanqui]

Video CAF works extremely reliably for me on my S1, but only using my S PRO lenses (and in my home setup, where I have a key light and an almost entirely dark or colored solid background; which plays to the strength of the contrast detect system). However, the Sigma DG DN L-mount lenses are unusable in video and are not only slow, but make noticeable clicks/noise from the AF motors. For photos, the S PRO lenses still outperform the Sigmas, but the Sigmas are far more usable than on video. I just wish Panasonic would just move away from their AF system already... I wonder if they would need to do anything to their existing lenses if they switched to a hybrid sensor or phase detect?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Yeah the setup you just described is pretty much what Panasonic wishes everyone follows, as you said, contrast based centric setup. I can’t promise I’ll always be shooting in a pitch black background and locking the camera on a tripod

[@50mmVietnam]

The only problem is: When you pluggin external monitor, the focus performance will be decreased

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Only in photo mode

[@mariush]

​@@THEDPJOURNEY because it is already compromised and terrible in video mode :) Such a shame. What is Panasonic doing. After having had the GH4, currently have 2 GH5's, 1 GH5S and the S1H I picked up the a7SIII and probably going to move over to the Sony ecosystem. With the Specs of the Sony matching and superseding Panasonic there's very little let to stay in it for. I'll keep my Panasonic, as on some of the shoots I do they will do great. But anything that revolves around run and gun or travel will be Sony. Having AF that you can use to make your shoot and life easier is so nice.

[@KingTut14]

@@mariush a7SIII has crap color grading compared to Panasonic. sure, it does better in low light. but compared your face side by side on each cam and youll see a huge difference. plus Sony lenses and cams 2x or MORE expensive. pass..

[@nattygains1672]

So what u suggest to go with a7iii or s5 ?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

When it comes to AF, Sony wins hands down

[@markkuautio7831]

That is the reason why i traded my S1H to Sony A7Siii, and never look back.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Who knows... maybe you’ll look back soon enough 😉

[@richarddelloyd3387]

Short but sniper like in excecution, the opposite of Panasonic AF. Sad to say that in the last few months I've sold my GH5, GH5S & S1. Lack of PDAF is crippling Panny FF, along with no incentive to buy L glass - too costly, too big and unreliable/unuseable CAF even with native glass and not even CAF with Sigma adapted lenses??? I've been invested in M43 for 10 years, enjoying both Panasonic and Olympus, but I'm fed up with this AF compromise, despite the fact I prefer pulling focus with vintage adapted lenses. I did a two man shoot last weekend with the R5 & A7S III and my god, having AF was a joyful luxury. We were filming people and actors in a busy London shopping plaza, therefore using any Panasonic system we would've missed so may shots or had to re-take so many times which was not an option in changeable lighting and weather conditions. If Fujifilm and even the walking dead Olympus can manage PDAF, then how glaringly embarrassing is it for Panasonic to keep going down this DFD path to oblivion?!?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

I hear you... I mean for me, I love so many things about Pana, AF is not a deal breaker for me... but just like you and many others, I need to have the option of reliable AF in some jobs that require it. Meaning that I gotta invest in other cameras + lens system as well... so yeah. If you can afford it, buy multiple cameras with multi lens mounts. If you cant, then probably canon or Sony would make more sense if your work relies heavily on reliable AF

[@SimonThomasB]

Thank you for the autofocus deep dive. I was seriously considering S5 due to anamorphic capability, but the autofocus problems seem to make the camera a no smarter. Which do you recommend at this point?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

It all depends honestly, I mean if you’re going for Anamorphic, then AF won’t matter to you.

[@SimonThomasB]

The DP Journey OK, got it, thanks. Anamorphic seems like it will provide a cinematic look. It would be great if I would do a video on anamorphic - showing cases where you used it and didn’t use it. Thank you

[@Clickumentary]

@@THEDPJOURNEY Exactly.. I don't understand the obsession with AF if you're truly intending to shoot cinematic film work with an anamorphic.

[@shtrudel-pu1cm]

do s5 vs a7siii test. tnx bro

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

A7SIII will burry the S5... I have both cameras and use them.. and no need to compare honestly

[@thatsreallyamoon]

@@THEDPJOURNEY in what cases do u use the S5 over the A7siii? I can think of a few things like anamorphic but that’s it haha.

[@xiyangyang1974]

You didn’t lock the focus on the model. If you lock it by clicking on the joystick the focus is more reliable. Manually focusing a model which is walking to you is very hard and usually also not possible at the first try.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Compared to other cams like SONY or Canon, you don’t need to do any of this. I know there are better practices to get better results. Just unpractical ones on a real set. Hence why I’m trying the most basic scenario that works perfect with other cameras

[@maomao180]

@@THEDPJOURNEY If you knew about the lock focus feature while making this video why didn't you at least include it since the results can be significantly different, pressing down on a joystick isn't that hard to do for most people.

[@JohnLuna]

I wonder when Panasonic will switch their autofocus system.. such great cameras and they fail at the same thing over and over

[@SGG-Travel]

Can't agree more

[@briandecasa5444]

If the camera detects the subject in focus why cant it speak to the focus driver keep it in focus?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

That’s what I asked Panasonic... but they had no answer. It’s just bad algorithms

[@thatsreallyamoon]

Brian the issue I believe is this: Contrast AF confirms focus by going back and forth on the focus and checking for contrast. Blurry images mix colors together, so you get less contrast. When something is sharp, all the colors are distinct and separate, producing high contrast. Ok, so in video the lens can only go so fast in AF because it can only check for contrast once per frame (I’m taking a guess here but I feel it sounds reasonable), and so if you only shoot 30 FPS, the focus works not as good as if you shoot 60 FPS. For Panasonic, it looks like the lens needs many frames to calculate and compare contrast, and in the meantime it may wonder the wrong direction even! It’ll eventually come back but by then the shot is already ruined. But I will defend the S5 here. It is significantly more reliable at least for me in a simple stand and shoot shot. It’ll find your face and hold it if you’re standing for a simple shot. It is at least that reliable. Even approaching the camera is usually just fine. I am actually impressed how much they’ve managed to force contrast AF to stick to subjects.

[@mistersteve6705]

you must have the most subscribers on the market....will happen i'm sure

[@masterche1980]

👍

[@adnan_velic]

Very sad honestly. Incredible video features with 2011 AF. Can they get away from the contract based AF entirely via a firmware update or would that require new hardware as well?

[@JericTamayo]

New hardware unfortunately

[@puddinginabucket8981]

It would probably need a quad or octa-core processor. 2 cores dedicated to reading the sensor at 480Hz, or even faster maybe 1.5KHz. And 2 cores dedicated to extracting and saving the information. The AF readout must happen in real time independent of shutter speed, so it probably has to read 2 different "shutter speeds" in order to make it work. Panasonic has picked the absolute worst algorithm for autofocus. It's almost like using bubble sort to arrange a list of 10,000 items. I think it will need to hook up the power of a computer CPU just for autofocus with such an algorithm.

[@princeofeurope3313]

Lumix S5 vs Sony A7c vs Nikon Z6ii? Which is better? Please help me

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Apples... oranges.... or Bananas... which is better?

[@princeofeurope3313]

@@THEDPJOURNEY for photography and videography quality, and autofocus

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

AF Sony wins... photography, it’s pretty subjective. Video quality is too broad to confirm one is better than the other. So many things to consider. There’s no ultimate answer

[@princeofeurope3313]

@@THEDPJOURNEY I choose Nikon Z6ii

[@thatsreallyamoon]

If you’re gonna buy cine lenses or work with vintage lenses, Lumix. If you need incredible AF, go Sony (I have an A7c and it’s cute and tiny and reliable AF but gross 8 bit ew ew).

[@poonricky5310]

Seems like the title of this video don't want to be searched lol

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

oooops... yeah i caught that pretty late...hahaha.! Thanks ;)

[@poonricky5310]

@@THEDPJOURNEY lol the naming system so "industrial" feel

[@Alexandrosflower]

I now use my S5 as a second body to my Leica SL2 for the times when I want a lighter body with better low-light performance. For photo I recommend the S5 and it feels super nice and well built in the hand. If it had at least Sony A7III AF .... it‘d be the best 2000 usd Camera on the market. .... but it hasn‘t. The L-mount alliance is suffering big time from this weakness. Why Panasonic ? There must be one guy in Senior Mgmt who‘s somehow attached his happiness and future to DFD. Get out of this shitty tech, as it ruins your business ! (And my pictures and videos... but I am now considering the A7C as b-cam)

[@raksh9]

Other commenters have noted that Sony will not sell PDAF sensors to Panasonic, so it's not necessarily a management decision to stick with DFD.

[@xavier_arthur]

Thank you for saving me a lot of money

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Hahaha... we’ll keep in mind, the s5 has a lot more to offer other than just bad AF

[@raksh9]

Or maybe he's cost you more money, from buying a A7S III!

[@automatisatorpeace5453]

Video AF works well with Panasonic S Primes + S5. With external recording ProRes RAW 4.1K 60P is AF much better/reliable. Try it and see for yourself :) Panasonic finally did a very good job here. Sigma AF is not so good (it pumps and loses focus more often).

[@LonzosStudios]

YEAH!! First one here

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Hahah!!! You’re awesome!!

[@AllThingsFilm1]

Your comment was all about you. Nothing about the video. So, basically, a pointless comment.

[@LonzosStudios]

@@AllThingsFilm1 Much like your comment about my comment, POINTLESS!!

[@kyounokuma]

I celebrate you.

[@willcrespo24]

Panasonic is not the perfect sistem simply do the AF. If they fix that they be the king!

[@HGQjazz]

Your footage looks awesome, but not for that hunting AF. I do love the look of the images though.

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

It’s a great camera producing awesome images. Just without relying on AF

[@isart3757]

in APSC S5 beat Fuji's system 🙏

[@CO8848_2]

So not good enough in FF?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Up to you to judge... it’s not good enough for me personally

[@richardwonka531]

How can this stupid camera lose focus on such a beauty?

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

Mind boggling!

[@christophestanic]

Why does AF suck on Lumix ? Panasonic should really fix it after so many years.

[@ju2705s]

No it isn't and I am going to send it back on Monday.

[@_rhapsodist]

the AF is pretty much still useless on this

[@THEDPJOURNEY]

In video mode yes

[@ruhri0411]

Why are you talking soooo fast? I’m not a native speaker and had to slow down to 0.75......

[@ju2705s]

Why Panasonic, why? No Phase AF is like a car without airbags. 🤣

[@ImagesWithPassion]

Red doch noch schneller... unbrauchbar