SABFOIL Razor Pro 975 vs Armstrong HA 880 from Wingfoil POV

[@AtreoMarano_Composer]

I appreciate your review, however it is not complete: you cannot compare two fronts without specifying which fuselage and which stabilizer you used to perform the test. It's also necessary to consider that the Sabfoil Razor PRO line was designed to surf "steep" waves while the new Armstrong HAs are fronts to surf fairly calm waves, leaving the steep waves to the MA fronts, which perform better on big and hard waves, being faster.

[@fluiditynz]

I don't ride any manufacturer's front or rear wings(I make my own) but SAABfoil front connection to wing is much weaker than Armstrong. The comments about how high you can ride should be corrected to being about ability and stabiliser efficiency, size and distance behind mast. I used to think Axis crazyshort fuselage was on the short side but from late last year I ride the Axis Advance Crazy short and find it great with just my own diy 300 sqcm stabiliser and my own front wings. One of my friends rides Armstrong and his fuselage is about a 1/3'rd longer than mine, he has more ability than me but the length of his Armstrong fuselage seems excessive. My impressions about SAABFOIL have been that they are primarily focussed on race. Armstrong are based in NZ as am I and their owner wouldn't tolerate flimsy design, I've heard he surfs too close to rocks and I understand it, when you make the foils you ride, every foil is a learning opportunity for that design iteration and scratching it up is OK if you can fix it! Ultimately you have to choose the best foils fit for the locations you ride. If that's big slow waves then it's going to be about agility of the foil. If it's small fast waves then it's about a fast foil. If you have trade winds then glide is not as important as if you have a gusty location like I do. I suspect I know why you report SABFOIL Razor Pro as having surfier feel than the Armstrong HA and it's probably from 2 subtle differences. The Armstrong foil tips are more forward than those of the SAAB and likely thicker. This makes them less pitch-steering responsive. My current lastest and favorite design is lower aspect ratio than these, around 7.9 However I did that on purpose. Big sweep back, big chord reduction towards the tips and extra thinning closer to the wingtips. One session on it and I absolutely love it's speed and handling of everything I tried with it. Understand when comparing Armstrong and SAABFOIL that speed and glide are not everything. It's matching your use case and your local conditions to the foil that best fits. If you work your foils hard in waves then be sure you have kit that can handle the stresses of those huge leverages.

[@soflofoiling9410]

Thank you for the thoughtful comments, I agree with most of your points. The fact that you’re manufacturing your own front and rear wings is absolutely amazing! I tried to compare both kits as they have similar dimensions, and fuselage length is a couple of centimeters apart, I feel that pitch stability in this particular case comes from front wing geometry more so than fuselage length difference. My POV is strictly based on winging in South Florida conditions which are 8-12 kts at best…so glide is one of the most important elements when evaluating foils…and at my beginner level. SABFOIL 975 front wing has a very unique geometry, glide is closer to my old ART PRO 1051 (which was at the top of my quiver) and turnability of a smaller wing. The issue with the stabilizer-mast fitment comes from the fact that SABFOIL are trying new anodized graphite alloy that is supposed to be super light and stiff, but difficult to manufacture. I sent the mast and fuselage back to SABFOIL, eager to see what they determine after inspecting the parts. Based on the video I sent them, SABFOIL said the connection has too much play…we’ll see. Thank you again and hope to see you on the water one day 😊

[@scp8412]

Ah interesting! I wanted to switch from my razor to 880 to gain glide! Thanks for that review!!

[@robertrecco710]

Thank god for Armstrong design is number one no other manufacturer can-come close

[@soflofoiling9410]

Thank you for your comment! My honest opinion is that Armstrong holds top spot for manufacturing quality. SABFOIL did provide a replacement mast and fuselage, but Armstrong fit and finish is just better.

[@NeuralEngin33r]

Thanks, I appreciate your comparison.

[@sea_verse507]

What stab are you using when you say that the HA is dull and slow? Tried 140? I have HA 980 and 780 and combine them with 140, 180 and 220, depending on the conditions. 780 with 140 is a beast. And, compared to Sabfoil W869 (that i rode before switching to Armie), it doesnt need 20 Knots to get going..

[@scp8412]

We need some updates on this switch to Razor foils. :D

[@soflofoiling9410]

Thank you for the reminder, I will post a full video review in the upcoming weeks. The SABFOIL 975 is a phenomenal front wing! The 975 is smooth, fast, glides well, turns well and pump really well. I find myself riding the 975 front wing 90% of the time, haven’t touched the Armstrong foils in a long time. There are a few negatives about SABFOIL. One, the original fuse and mast were defective and SABFOIL did send me replacement fuse/mast, but the connection is still not as solid as Armie, Axis or any other big brand. Two, the Kraken bolt is rusting profusely even thought I am not using the Kraken system at all. This rusting situation already damaged one of my inflatable wings. Three, the SABFOIL HM mast is softer than Armie performance mast, so pumping is affected and not as snappy on the turns. Even though I love the 975 front wing, I cannot recommend the brand. If you’re not already invested in SABFOIL ecosystem, go with another brand like Axis or Lift. If you already have SABFOIL mast and fuse, then the 975 would be an excellent addition to your quiver. Hope this helps, ping me if you have any specific questions about the 975. Stay cool! Andrean

[@scp8412]

​@@soflofoiling9410 Thanks for the great review! I have the kraken previous generation to piuma and the razor 980 and 820. I like them but do not feel they glide amazingly well. I know the piuma is much thinner than anything else on the market, but not the lightest. I was debating just upgrading the mast for now, or switch to some Fone Eagle-x... but $$$. Ah the life of a winger/foildrive addic :D

[@zbindenren]

Waiting for the sabfoil review 😊

[@soflofoiling9410]

Thank you for your comment! SABFOIL asked me to send the mast and fuselage back to them, so it would be awhile before I get it back. Will do a full review once I get it back.

[@zbindenren]

No worries. I am still a beginner and learning to gybe with my beginner gear (gong). But I plan to buy into sabfoil system later on.

[@NikolayPotashov]

Hi. I have m83k, wo940, wmp868. And think about razor series and piuma mast for more speedy surfing. But after your review I also want to see about loose connection between this mast and fuse.

[@soflofoiling9410]

Thank you for your comment! My piuma mast and fuselage were sent back to Italy to be inspected by SABFOIL. I am still waiting to hear back from them, but my expectations are pretty low at this point.

[@NikolayPotashov]

@@soflofoiling9410 . Tnx. yes I understand. but what happened? Is the end of the mast broken? Or side of fuse? maybe you have a photo?

[@soflofoiling9410]

@@NikolayPotashov The gap between the mast and fuselage is so big that you can stick a piece of paper even when the three M6 bolts are fully tightened. Having such sloppy connection defeats the purpose of having a stiffer mast. I want to give SABFOIL a chance to remedy the situation before I post the next video, last thing I want to do is bash the brand if this is simple manufacturing defect. Will post the video as soon as hear back from SABFOIL. Thank you!

[@schwitzberger7325]

hey thx... my connection is also a little loser than the regular sabfoil 83mk mast. I will write sabfoil as well as I just got this foil combo...

[@andrewjamez]

Ha v2 is designed toward prone foiling. Stick with HA v1

[@soflofoiling9410]

I moved on to DWP 755, seems to be working pretty good for me and has very similar feel to 925, just better glide and speed. I sold all my HAs V1 and V2. Going to wait for newer releases before I buy anything else