Jehovah's Witnesses & Science #2

[@earthenly]

" He surely wasn't ignorant or uneducated when he accepted to study the Bible! " Good observation Richard. That must make your job a lot more loving & tolerant of those who have. Take care !

[@afterraincomessun]

sometimes i come across questions that i did not hear before. I know that there is always a very satisfactory answer i walk in faith. most of the times i find the answer. the bible has it. Jehovah is a great God still things that happen in our life can put us to the test to see if we endure:lam 3 It is the acts of loving‐kindness of Jehovah that we have not come to our finish, because his mercies will certainly not come to an end. 23They are new each morning. Your faithfulness is abundant.

[@afterraincomessun]

what i would like to say about Higgs is this : no it is not about Higgs but about Pluto. this planet was discovered in a special way : first they thought that all kinds of calculations showed that a planet like pluto had to exist. and later it turned out that Pluto was there . But later they discovered that the calculations were wrong . So they discovered Pluto by incidence. sometimes scientists draw conclusions and WE FOLLOW.

[@zebdonk]

The bible does use chronology so it stands to reason that discussion, dialogue and some degree of speculation would arise around certain dates that seemed significant. It proves they are deeply interested in the outworking of bible prophecy.

[@zebdonk]

What is science: the gathering of facts and things you know to be true, eg knowledge. Wisdom on the other hand is the correct application of such knowledge, something that short-lived imperfect humans will never be able to achieve without Jehovah's help.

[@zebdonk]

It's the bible that teaches shunning, ICor 5:11. 2Thess 3:14. Yes, I guess it’s a dose of what they call tough love. People can walk away. And they can come back too. In the end it's up to them. I know what it's like to have diss-fellowshipped family members; responsibilities we have to relatives still doesn’t change. As they say you can choose you’re friends but you can’t choose your relatives.

[@afterraincomessun]

par 1: i am against using science in the publications of the witnesses. if someone uses this information to strenghten his faith , his faith might fail when a scientific reasoning turns out to be wrong. This has en extra dimension because as a witness we are taught that the literature is by the faithful slave and therefore you dont expect this to be fallible. Still sometimes the faithful slave has used wrong items , which undermined the trust of witnesses

[@afterraincomessun]

yes the Higgs part is a perfect example: did you know they discovered Pluto in that same way?

[@afterraincomessun]

oh I fully agree with that last statement i am a admirer of Francis Collins . Above all i admire Jehovah. But it is sometimes difficult to understand Him completely: and as for scientific facts i would use them the same as bible truths: 2 tim : Do your utmost to present yourself approved to God, a workman with nothing to be ashamed of, handling the word of the truth aright. so handling scientific facts aright!

[@afterraincomessun]

many think that science also is the drawing of conclusions. sometimes conclusions might be wrong because we just did not understand the facts correctly.

[@zebdonk]

What's wrong with the way it's done now: doesn't it already integrate all such senses? See it or ignore it, the choice is up to us.

[@earthenly]

Richard, they say that animals can sense (God-given) when there is danger, such as an earthquake, & run for safety before the danger begins. Concerning the Ark, does it not make sense that God, thru that given sense, led the animals to it? Nothing else makes sense. I have often "sensed" danger (The Silence), so I sense the same for an animal, as I do Noah.

[@earthenly]

From the information in this video, I don't get the sense that Jesus is coming. Except for the witnessing of changes (restoration) in & upon the earth, & the makeover of the human spirit & physical condition, the future visible absense of Jesus remains. Is it through the Bible, alone, that God will continue to speak to us, or/& through our God-given sensory perceptive eye & ear? Thanks, Richard. God bless !

[@zebdonk]

But we are like the early disciples; they made mistakes and so do we.

[@MileEndEst]

"Noah's days show an endtime can last 120 year before the climax unfolds before everyone." That is if one believes that Noah's lifespan was over 120 years. How long did he live? 950 years? If human had live that long for such a long period of time, we would have the ability in 2013 to confirm that information.

[@1biblestudent]

These Apostates deception and dishonesty is so apparent, I really don't see how anyone falls for it. One would have to be looking for a reason the destroy their relationship with Jehovah. Myself I choose to ignore their banter and get on with the more important work Christ assigned us to do.

[@1biblestudent]

Did you know that Feb. 12 is "Darwin Day" celebrating Darwin's 204th birthday. It is better known as, "All Dimwitt's Day."

[@zebdonk]

We are not inspired as the bible writers were, and those were different times; for instance they were not faced with the question of organ transplants as we were today. However they had other things such as circumcision with different groups holding strongly to their own opinions, to deal with, until a central body decided on a ruling they all had to adhere to. Many evidently did believe that the end would come in their time, Acts 1:6. Some believed John would not die John 21:23.

[@afterraincomessun]

if you want i can show more scientific conclusions that were used in the literature of Jehovahs witnesses. It does show however only that we must be carefull in what we use and how we use. We dont serve Jehovah by using scientific facts to prove some religious statement if the scientific facts are misused. we could make people stumble and then it is difficult to make them stand again . usually the one that stumbled gets the blame for it when he points to facts in the literature

[@afterraincomessun]

part 1 its true that we should always let ourselves be corrected . but sometimes its the student thatshows that the professor is wrong. we than are confronted with stubborness(?) elders can correct us but are they humble if a brother corrects them? and do they accept the damage that can occur if we stumble over some misused scientific fact? A brother who is transgressed against is more than a strong town; and there are contentions that are like the bar of a dwelling tower.

[@zebdonk]

Of course it had been around for centuries, but the idea of circumcised Jews having to admit that an uncircumcised man could serve God on equal terms as they could was ground breaking. Just as unpalatable as the concept for some that the human body could be cannibalized for spare parts; anyway, originally those kinds of treatments were very experimental. People had a right to be wary, don't you think?

[@zebdonk]

I already know that all those in prominent positions within the Watchtower Society are imperfect humans. That's no great exposé; I defend them because they are so defendable. They admit when errors, for whatever reason, have taken place, and as you have seen always strive for a clearer understanding of scripture. For at present we see in hazy outline...At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately... 1Cor 13, 12.

[@zebdonk]

Insulting women, now you've gone too far ...just joking. As a disciple of Jesus I believe the bible, naturally enough, and my involvement with JWs has brought me a growing understanding that gets clearer all the time. No I do not expect perfection; neither do I wish to focus on the faults and failings of others as if that is the only thing that defines them. What if God has forgiven them and you haven't, wouldn’t you be the one who is in the wrong?

[@zebdonk]

Nobody is required to believe that the Governing Body is infallible, you know that. But there are plenty of facts in the bible that do provide a basis for the belief that the bible and everything it says, and what is to be expected from God's people, has proven to be true. No use using others, and their faults and failings, as an excuse, you are either living up to it, yourself, or you are not.

[@zebdonk]

You mean Math 24:36 Jesus said: "concerning that day and hour nobody knows" We did not predict any day or hour; the import of our deliberations on scripture has discussed the possible significance of certain years, highlighting the meaning of what the bible says will happen. It's all part of proper and thorough research. By doing this and learning from the outcomes the light, as scripture promised, does indeed get brighter, Prov 4:18.

[@zebdonk]

That it was a burning subject at the time is also brought out in Luke 19:11...they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly. That was only natural human behavior wasn't it?

[@afterraincomessun]

nowadays pluto is not even a planet but a dwarf planet

[@afterraincomessun]

if you just could see : Jesus said he would come back in signs: Syria ? Jesus is back already For just as the lightning comes out of eastern parts and shines over to western parts, so the presence of the Son of man will be And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; matthew 24

[@zebdonk]

Do you think I was always a JW? Actually it was the extreme bias I saw from those who opposed the Witnesses that motivated me to dig deeper into this whole religious thing. Basically the JWs were interested in promoting the bible. The others were only interested in what amounted to character assassination and sour grapes. Sorry if I don’t agree with you, but I do have a mind of my own.

[@zebdonk]

Who says there are so many mistakes in their literature? You are talking about views, opinions and dialogue made available through the printed page for over one hundred years! Of course some things would need to be updated as time goes by. Do you also condemn doctors because they have changed their views and update medical journals that were once used decades ago?

[@zebdonk]

What if we are not so unforgivable as you seem to think we are? I know king David made some serious mistakes. Would you have forgiven him or allowed him to continue on as King over the rest of God's people? Perhaps Jehovah views us differently to the way you do. Knowing our frailties, and hearts, perhaps he’s not so hung up on the failings of others as some humans are.

[@zebdonk]

No it's not. Both were unchartered territories that took time to deal with.

[@zebdonk]

Did Jehovah lead the Israelites out of Egypt: yes or no? Did Moses, the chiefs and all the people make mistakes even though God was guiding them: yes or no?

[@Nonrelg]

Why could these various scientists not narrate their stories in their own voice with their own images?

[@Nimzomyth68]

So, as a scientist, do you believe in a talking snake and Noah literally got all the animals on an Ark?

[@zebdonk]

Why is there something and not nothing? Why...? Science can help to explain how, but not why!

[@zebdonk]

Sure man has only been here about 6,000 years, but where does it say in the bible that the earth, itself, was only created 6,000 years ago? I say this because a biblical day can have other meanings besides a literal 24 hour day. God rested on the seventh day: this, obviously, has not yet ended, even after the passing, now, of some thousands of years. (Gen. 2:2, 3; Ex. 20:11) One day can also be 1,000 years, 2 Pet. 3:8

[@zebdonk]

A simple examination of what the bible teaches-yes the bible-apart from all this cantankerous personal bias reveals who are really faithful to its teachings, that's what's wise. I'm not interested in being sidetracked by any personal agenda from disgruntled individuals or anybody else who use unfortunate, emotive issues to gain a following for themselves.

[@afterraincomessun]

and i dont want to say that we need facts to prove the bible. the bible itself is often clear enough. using scientific facts is then overkill and we can only corrupt the bible . proper reasoning is also important: if we say evolution does not make sense because the evolutionists dont agree over the right theory , than we are in fact saying that God does not exist because theologicans disagree too.!

[@afterraincomessun]

about texts like romans 1:20 i would only say : dont add things to the bible and dont take things away God exists thats a fact Jehovah does not have to prove! further i know that we have a book called : reasoning from the scriptures. why is there so much science history theology in it: do we need proof? i am glad with every thought that keeps the faith alive and supports it but : first the faith and the trust perhaps later the science: Abraham had little scientific facts and still he believed.

[@zebdonk]

I know you only want to be attackingly critical, but allow me to disagree with you. I think they have done a great job with dealing with all the issues, you mentioned, as they arose. After all it takes time to escape the darkness of thousands of years of false religion.

[@Nimzomyth68]

the only conclusions you are coming to are already provided by your organisation.

[@RODikUlus]

Is this a joke? If not, I'd like to see this JW scientist debate another scientist known on KZbin.

[@zebdonk]

“What is truth?” You sound like Pilot when he condemned Jesus. Do you really think that in real life we never have to change our minds or improve on what we know, individually or as a group? Honestly, were the very first Christians any better?

[@zebdonk]

That's not kind.

[@zebdonk]

Moving on from the bias and gnashing of others, look at religion as part of history. You condemn the JWs but what have they done that compares to the inquisition, corruption, religions involvement with empire building, crusades, politics and war. All these are self-evident facts some would like to ignore and then evade with inconsequential nitpicking and slander.

[@zebdonk]

Yeah sure, like if you want to learn the real truth about Jesus you go to Judas Iscariot; that’s about what you are saying. Come on, be honest: look at the whole history of religion, yourself, instead of focusing on one religion for the sole purpose of finding fault. And you are wrong; we are all accountable to God. Dare I say he is in a far better position to judge than you are.

[@kittencatuk]

You know squat about what you're trying to represent. You're the kind of person I laugh at.