Sage is BAD? FFXIV 7.05 Healer Tier List!

[@ColeEvyx]

Seriously... play what you want to play.

[@luja5546]

Ive already come to learn healer parses are kinda meh, because if ppl mess up, there goes ur dps parse. if ppl do everything correctly there goes ur healer parse.

[@Mimz670]

I've been to parse parties where the other healer was very ademant about taking turns solo healing... Like whats the point of the role then lol. I havent joined parse parties since

[@brianfrost3094]

Healer parses are quite sad. The one parsing just does damage and the other does all the healing. I like to call these false numbers because they aren't doing their job.

[@linkshellvendor]

>>Level Drk >>bunch of vids talking about Drk being weak >>Level Mechanist >>bunch of vids talking about MCH being weak >>Level Sage >>vids start popping out about it being weak guys, I'm the problem

[@ColeEvyx]

Naw you're not! You're good don't sweat the silliness of people worried about funny numbers. I'd say maybe machinist could use a little love and dark knight some QOL but I've never once complained about either in my group this tier! Frankly I stopped paying attention to WHAT the tanks are playing... dark knight though feels super popular xD

[@karman3k012]

In your defense drk has been in a bad spot since after/during stormblood (main drk since hw and now maining pld). And ppl focus more on rdps than adps

[@castoputa]

It looks really really cool though!

[@crescent077]

Yoo i cleared all of savages and extremes with Sage. Dont worry about Sage, it is still very good and useful. I also tried Scholar too but still need more practice to get used to it. If you ask me you should play and continue playing which one fits your gameplay style. For me Sage is faster peaced job than Scholar because of this when i tried playing with SCH i made mistakes especially when i needed to heal whole team when our pure healer died. For me Sage is generally more useful for emergency situations and you could quickly save the moment unlike SCH. SCH wants you to know which mechanic will come after to make your decision about giving shields and mitigations.

[@ArchieGamez]

Hey at least your BIG GUNS is fun

[@XXAAXX1447]

Almost all dps and tank jobs damage got buffed in 7.05, this means ast and sch got buffed in terms of rdps

[@berdanaricioglu1852]

The funny number on FFlogs is your ‘score’ compared to others on the same job as you. You can get 100 on a job that’s really ‘weak’ cuz you’re only comparing to others playing the same job. I do agree with the video, was just pointing it out.

[@YoYakuman]

I refuse to believe that a real person told you "healer balance in Dawntrail is truly in the worst state we've ever seen it in the game" Heavensward existed

[@Pmak]

Only "healer" balance issue I see is that they gave SGE an AoE Dot and left the other healers out to dry. Wtf is up with that? I mean SCH also has an AoE DoT....tied to their 2 minutes o_O wtf?

[@mghegotagun]

Sch brought more consistent party buffing to the table with selenes fey wind than ast did back then. And then stormblood 20% damage buffing balance card, and adlo costing as much as a raise happened. Stopped healing and went dps after that starting with red mage.

[@karman3k012]

All honesty sage is actually second strongest healer since most sch and ast dmg come from their buffs to the party so if your team doesnt know how to push buttons sge and whm stronger than them.

[@RainbowLizardOne]

I think Philosophia is just really boring in comparison to the other 3 minute cooldowns. Sage GCD heals are a little bit weak compared to the other healers, and a big HoT is just not really that exciting for a capstone ability and a 3 minute cooldown.

[@24hr-Gaming]

The thing is Sage puts out a lot of heals overall. Physis and Ixachole are really good healing abilities that are under utilized, even Kerachole is under utilized, and that button should be going off every 30 seconds. Sage's ogcd heals are already pretty nutty. And that's not counting Zoe Pneuma which when used with Physis is a pretty fat party heal. But I remember seeing this stuff early Endwalker where people just didn't know how to use Sage's kit so I wonder if that's the same here.

[@RainbowLizardOne]

​@@24hr-Gaming I don't think sage's healing toolkit is weak at all. I'm just talking about Philosophia being boring.

[@Aki-Iji]

I don't think any healer in the game is weak, however I feel you kind of ignore a huge strength of SCH (unless I missed it) that SGE doesn't have, that being recitation>adlo>deployment. SGE has no way to match this output in shields as consistently with as little tools and is, in reality, the reason SCH gets chosen over SGE in race and prog groups. Especially when you consider just how well SCH's kit synergizes with the monster that is current AST, you can start to see why a lot of people think it's falling behind with WHM in the meta.

[@kalancosta7650]

Sage can put up big shields… physis2,kerachole(for mit) holos (mit and a stacking shield) Zoe + aoe shield… Then over shield is smaller but the near 20% mit (slightly less tho) More than equals Sch’s big shield

[@Aki-Iji]

@@kalancosta7650 Notice I said "As consistently with such little tools." SGE can match the shields if they dump all their resources, but unless the fight just stops throwing out damage for a long time, they can't do anything else. Take m4s for example, SCH can actually spreadlo the party during Ion Cluster so melees can greed uptime without dying, and still have more than enough mit for the upcoming laser mechanic. SGE however does not have that option and pumping out that kind of shield will exhaust them of all their resources. You kinda proved my point in actually giving me the exact CDs you'd need to replicate a simple 2 CD combo from SCH.

[@24hr-Gaming]

@@Aki-Iji Holos and Zoe shield is close enough, especially with Kerachole. That is 20% mit and also a pretty hefty shield. And that's not anywhere near all of their resources as they'd still have Panhaima, Pneuma, and the new level 100 skill. Recitation and Deployment are not free. Recitation is 60s and Deployment is 90s. Zoe is 90 seconds and Holos is 120, but if you alternate it with Panhaima, you have a hefty shield up every 60 seconds. And that's not counting Kerachole at 30 seconds. Scholar does have Soil, but Kerachole applies to the party and not the ground so it's overall more useful for mitigation in the scenario you're speaking of. Sage is not hard to play at all. You just Kerachole every 30 seconds and align either Panhaima or Holos to big raidwides and the rest kind of takes care of itself. Scholar is mostly meta because of Chain since people want to pump big numbers during the burst window. But Sage is overall more useful because it pumps out both mit and healing which is why Sage/Scholar was really strong during Endwalker. During Endwalker I frequently outhealed WHMs just using the OGCD kit.

[@Aki-Iji]

​@@24hr-Gaming If you use Holos and Zoe ontop of Kerachole to match SCH's skill output you are still trading 3 CDs, one of which being a 120s, vs SCH's 2. When talking about "resources" I'm specifically talking about their mitigation, of which SCH will have in spades (Expedient, soil, Seraph) while SGE only has panhaima to work with afterwards until the next 30s. I agree that Kerachole slightly edges soil out because it's a buff rather than a field, but that strength doesn't really matter yet in any of the current savage floors as soil is big enough to cover the space that the party resolves mechanics in, and a smart scholar will place it properly so the limitation of size doesn't matter like they did when AoEs weren't the size of entire arenas. SCH also doesn't even have to use soil for the situation i brought up, just spreadlo. I also never really said SGE is hard, in fact I personally think it's even easier than WHM, but that's a matter of opinion. SCH is meta in speeds because of chain strat yes, but it still leads the charge in progression groups because of the sheer strength and flexibility of its mitigation tools. SGE does heal a lot, but to say it's "more useful" because of that is just incorrect, since in organized groups neither healer will ever need to non-lily GCD heal more than once regardless of the comp unless things go really wrong, in which case SCH just got Seraphism and the regen healers have a thousand ways to make up for it. While the raw healing of SGE definitely enables a double barrier comp, there's more going into WHY that comp is good than just "SGE heals a lot" and it's to do with how SCH's spreadlo works. Krasis and other single target healing amp abilities like Thrill and old Nature's enabled SCH to spread a full HP shield onto the entire party, allowing the execution of mechanics with 0 healing being required, such as act 2 in p4s. Also side note I don't really like comparing if one job outheals the other, as there's a lot of factors going into it, such as damage mitigated, and heal "sniping" of which SGE's mana regen kit heavily encourages since they're throwing out heals when WHM and AST likely are letting regens tick. SGE, like WHM, definitely have a place in the game. In unorganized groups such as party finder they will find tremendous success where their counterparts could struggle, but in optimized play both in prog and speeds, there's no comparing the two, as the same with AST/WHM.

[@TheOneGreat]

I hope SE stops listening to raiders and don't balance jobs into the ground even more. But who am I kidding. Been like that since Shadowbringers. 😂

[@AbyssArray]

Ever since fflogs became popular... I'd say Stormblood honestly (or even late HW) - I remember people locking out jobs even that early

[@manumase]

@@AbyssArray people locked out jobs from their parties since beginning of the game, ARR only had 2 tanks and 1 of them wasnt allowed in raids... (ARR warrior was so bad...)

[@TheOneGreat]

​@@manumasePeople say that but wait 45 minutes for #8 and see how suddenly nobody cares. Granted, *some* balance is needed (looking at you, WAR), but not to the detriment of gameplay. DT is miserable in terms of job gameplay.

[@Val0r0fthep4st]

​@TheOneGreat war is fine, Drk just needs a slight rework on some damage and abilities then all the tanks are good

[@TheOneGreat]

@@Val0r0fthep4st WAR is insanely OP in every content bar savage. It needs a nerf from orbit. Jobs are supposed to be boring for the sake of balance yet WAR is comically god-like. Absolute shit show.

[@WolfmanXD]

Just one note, while I do agree with you that all the healers are fine right now, saying you have a good parse on sage doesn't mean anything, because fflogs only compares your number to other sages. IF sage was bad, that analogy would be equivalent to comparing a turd to a shiny turd.

[@24hr-Gaming]

Man you only see whm not use their lilies? I have seen ones not use any of their kit. Leveling whm made me realize how lazy the average whm is. You have quite a lot of tools and the difference between a competant whm and a sandbag is night and day. Even if whm did have an additional mitigation button, I rarely see Temperance used as it is.

[@michaelbart7014]

As a WHM main ill say that WHM toolkit feels absolutely tiny if played optimally, and at any given time there are only 5 cooldowns I care about tracking (plenary, temperance, assize, asylum, lily bell) the rest of WHM toolkit is useless GCDs and lillies. It feels horrible compared to the other healers, still, even though I love it the most, because as far as actual heals outside of hardcasting it has very little to nothing if you dont have one of those 5 cooldowns available. The fact that divine caress is tied to temperance AND is a 2 minute is disgusting, it should both be a seperate cooldown and a shorter cooldown but devs dont care about WHM because its the "baby/newbie" healer and people "should just get good at AST instead."

[@JRyan-lu5im]

@@michaelbart7014 As a WHM moving into SGE, and not a pro type by any stretch, I feel like WHM is simply a better role for beginner healers as the functions are pretty analogue. Heal spells heal, party heal spells heal party, flowers are insta-cast mana-free heals, etc. It's simple to understand and map out. Is it the best? Ehh. After playing SGE and doing it competently, i noticed that raid parties with good mitigation rarely take player deaths, or even critical hp loss. Honestly if I was a WHM next to myself playing SGE, I would end up mostly doing DPS because no one is dying or concerningly injured half the time. Maybe I didn't learn them well enough, but AST and SCH both didn't seem to have strong enough blanket mitigation or dump healing to be effective in a high damage situation. But as I said, I'm not a pro. it looks to me in duty match making that there's no superior healing class as its a mix of any class at random at any point.

[@SubduedRadical]

SCH/AST will always be the meta. It's the nature of metas that there will ALWAYS BE A META, even if it's a super super SUPER tiny difference, there will always be something with a technical slightly greater amount of some performance metric than the others. My issue right now is WHM has no 1 min mitigation CD while AST does. Even just making Caress 120 seconds (where you could use it anytime between now and the next Temperance instead of just 30 seconds), that would make a big difference to me. But other than that issue, the healers are otherwise nicely balanced to me and feel good. SCH is more powerful than SGE, but SGE's mobility is super nice. Like on Ex2 featherfall, Panhamia + Kerochole + Holos + being able to instantly cast/apply Eukrasia Prognosis on the party as they circle around the room with all that damage is AMAZING. I saw a thread about this on ffxivdiscussion and people were like "herp derp, WHM is fine/amazing you're stupid" with a couple of people countering that, but the weird thing is, people there have been saying the same thing OP did for literally years but suddenly disagree. /shrug But yeah, I think AST being half barrier healer while WHM is supposed to be a pure-only isn't good for the role (or WHM, obviously), but having either Caress with a longer use time OR giving Plenary a 5% mit or something would be nice. You can't heal people through taking >100% damage. Either AST needs to lose Collective and the Devs really enforce the pure/barrier split OR WHM needs to be given either a 1 min CD mit or make Caress less tied to Temperance (note SMN already does this with Solar Bahamut allowing use of Lux Solaris for the full 60 sec until you use another Demi). I feel like either of those changes would make a ton of difference for making WHM feel better. Hell, I mostly do 4 man dungeons and I have felt for a while now (at least since EW, but even further since ShB) that WHM feels bad since you have 2 mins between mitigations while the other healers can mitigate 3 raidwides in that time vs WHM having to cast /twiddlethumbs if 31-119 seconds from Temperance. I just...dislike that. People often say WHM feels like it's missing something, and I think that's the "missing" thing that could tie the kit together. Either of those things.

[@MrJammers]

Just need assize to nourish the blood lilly and I'll be happy

[@Diethro]

I suspect part of the reason there are more SCH numbers is because you get a free DPS when you level one. SMN/SCH is my go to first job on every expansion, SMN for solo stuff and SCH for roulettes.

[@Pmak]

As for any job, it comes down to liking it and if you can play it well. I suck with SCH, at least comparatively to SGE. So SGE to me will always be better, I can SCH but only half to the degree I can with SGE.

[@michaelbart7014]

Its just getting sadder and sadder that the "regen healer" WHM has less regen uptime than literally every other healer now, played optimally, because no good WHM will cast medica 2/3 except in emergency healing mode and for certain fights where you might need sustained additional healing. Aslyum is 90 second cooldown, with a 24 second duration. Divine caress is a 2 minute cooldown tied to temperance (wth, why are they tied together) with a 15 second regen once its actually used and wears off. Meanwhile every other healer having bubble/oGCD regens all the time. Cool.

[@Qkochan3]

idk why people think any jobs need any changes or buffs or help if the metric is "it can clear anything". people have hit double digits of deaths and still cleared even m4s so its not a big deal the content is super easy anyways

[@zaeynnezameel989]

Cause its on the bottom of the funny number list :( Parse takes are SO BS Honestly

[@CreatorHouseVlogs]

Love ast but i wish sage was easier to play because I like the aesthetic but the class itself just doesn’t heal

[@haroldestrada7649]

As a sage that is struggling through the savage fights and getting bonked in the head I can say for 100% certainty that it's a skill issue on my part =3

[@BladeBeoulve6]

I wish se seriously stop the hand holding with sch seriously. I am always still trying to figure out why philosophia couldnt just be an update trait to soteria at 80/90 and philosophia be like a 500/600 potency instant cast shield, its so unfair its that one spoil button call recitation and deployment button that makes sch op. I never like sch as I hate hard casting shields vs instant casting shield(miss noct ast). Idk why they pick soteria to be 60 seconds instead of zoe being 60 seconds either. The 98 trait to physis is such a slap in the face, the increase healing 10% to 15 seconds should have been base kit to begin with lol se is so dumb with balance when it comes to healers it makes no sense, they may as well then erase whm and sage(not saying i hate sage cause its MY MAIN) but it seem they only care for AST(my ex main) and sch. Honestly from a test technically A crit E diagnosis zoe is stronger than a crit alco cause physis/zoe/krasis/philo greatly increases sages heals by margins which many people do not seem to be aware of, I wish se stop being ignorant and just let sage be able to spread its crit E diag but then at that point sch maybe now useless. But hey they got seraphism(instant cast shields which was unique to sage) so let us now can spread our shields with a 100% crit end of rant. Anyways at the end of the day how you play your job well that makes you an asset, not how big your bubbles are(which everyone only brags about on sch am sick of it). Honestly whatever people say I will always stay and play my sage regardless of my rants above because as someone that was one of the few that love and respected NOCT astro, that is kinda what sage gives me and people 90% hated and underestimated noct ast how good it can be but no insist dirunal was always best. Also side note sage heals are powerful when used properly beating even whms by margins and its easier to recover since addergall goes up on death while the other 3 healers loses all their stuff (lillies/cards/aetherflow stack+fairy ggs). I personally honestly do not struggling with healing or shielding as a sage.

[@aaronbennett80]

FFlogs is biased towards parse party data. Casual party finder clear/prog groups often don't have anyone uploading the logs.There are still plenty of people that do upload those logs, but compared to parse parties who will of course be uploading 100% of their logs, it can definitely skew numbers significantly. So sage looks weaker than it really is, because most of the healers who are super dedicated to getting more DPS and constantly running parse groups, are not using sage. It makes a small difference in actual potential look like a massive difference in actual outcome.

[@cekefun]

As a person who cleared this tier as a Sage in PF, I truly believe that Sage and White mage are a little bit easier to play in PF because they're both a little better at recovering from mistakes. Meanwhile Scholar and Astrologian are a bit better at spreading out their mitigations and planning making them slightly better in a static environment.

[@rynto_7607]

how are you raiding with party effects on ?

[@karmaspcs]

astro is always most played for new savage tier. why? week 1 kills. after maybe 3 to 4 weeks astro is dropping. TBH i dont care about the numbers for at least a month maybe 6 weeks. then and only then you see a clear picture of what job is most played.

[@Gemini_Godhand]

Astro's can self buff and cheat the whole raid just like I do .... not!

[@lThellRockl]

if only your voice was louder so i could hear the joke properly and enjoyed it as much as you did

[@DavidFisher-b1h]

Yes, all are viable. Not looking at hard data, but Sage currently FEELS underpowered. It's more clicks per heal, which is more effort. Additionally, the DPS aspect is underpowered and feels disjointed in the flow.

[@blansongaming]

Sage needs more damage and a raid damage buff other then that it's great.

[@wexman6]

What people don’t seem to understand with healers is that none of them are bad, but WHM and SGE are more limiting than AST and SCH. Their toolkit is not as diverse, but to compensate, they are able to pick up the slack of a party that is making lots of mistakes. Thin Air can keep a WHM’s MP bar in good health, and SGE has good all-round mobility to keep it nimble. In a progression setting, these two healers, in my opinion, are the gold standard. They’re simple and can get the job done efficiently with little fuss. ASTs and SCHs in a prog setting will struggle much more with keeping the party alive, and their buffs will only go so far to party members with the Brink of Death debuff. That said, in reclears, or in a dedicated static where everyone is locked in, AST and SCH will absolutely dominate.

[@MrTsukihami]

Diverse kit doesn't even mean anything. 9 times out of 10 I'm not even using Srraphism because it's useless outside of everything except maybe upcoming Lesbians Ultimate.

[@f7rouge]

I was in that Honey B Lovely week 2 clear 😅

[@slowreader4617]

I just wanna learn sage for me

[@Catzillator]

it is Seraphism that make SCH became popular

[@MrTsukihami]

The most useless skill SCH to have actually.

[@sanguin3]

Chain Stratagem actually, DPS is king in this game.

[@Ayenayedaye]

this game doesnt have right healing philosophy to give a damn on what are you playing, honestly.

[@unixtreme]

I think the only reason scholar is picked so much is there's quite a bit of movement. But if you get a green funny number on scholar that means you are green compared to other people in the same job. So this just means you are better at sage than scholar.

[@Viderii]

Healer parses also mean JACK FUCKING SHIT. TL:DR: People are being idiots and necessitating the presence of two healers? Say goodbye to your dps parse. People are doing everything right and you're solo healing? Say goodbye to your healing parse. It's entirely circumstantial - the most use Healer Parses have is learning people's healing plans in fights.

[@ShindoWonderland]

First one again ;) Big cat hugs and cuddles my bug meow cat

[@Raionhardt]

Schloar is dogshit to play nobody will ever convince me to switch off sage. First few week parses are a joke because sch ast are always higher on logs in the first few weeks

[@sharp_iodine2737]

I wish they’d get rid of the clunkiness of SCH’s kit. At this point it feels like they’re deliberately keeping the clunkiness to make it “more difficult” and justify giving it Chain Stratagem. That seems entirely stupid to me. Why can’t all healers have a raid buff and not be clunky? That is an option. It’s like they know no one will ever touch SCH’s ancient design if it didn’t have Chain.

[@Matthew-o3q]

Fu** dps as a healer. I do my best to attack, but my primary job is to heal😂