The Shocking Truth About Electric Propulsion | Step 371

[@eduardosturla]

You guys have made a documentary which is miles beyond what any trade magazine could've done with a team of writers and producers! You are WAY more knowledgable than most of the salesmen and typical trade show pitches. Congratulations!

[@warrendemars]

Totally agree!

[@johnalberto7855]

You guys know the old saying, "when you know the walk you can talk the talk". You guys have done it and experienced the pros and cons. Excellent work!@@warrendemars

[@SailingTipsCa]

Yes and I love how pretty much every sales person said “We are the market leader” LOL!!!

[@SailHub]

Absolutely, smashed it guys!!

[@ExposingReflections]

Amazing job Kika and Dan. That's a lot of work, interviewing that many companies as professionally as you did. Thank you for all the great information.

[@richardwallinger1683]

Dan is nailing it bigtime .. a customer with more experience than the unsuspecting salesperson .

[@yachticus]

thats exactly what I was seeing - welcome to the labyrinth

[@realulli]

Dan and Kika have more experience than just about ANY salesperson out there...

[@francesconicoletti2547]

“ you don’t cross the Atlantic every day “. Someone doesn’t watch their channel. No sometimes they coast off the coast of Norway instead.

[@princeangel3580]

Well these sellers are selling to maximum of people, that are definitely not having the use of Dan and Kika, thats not a surprised

[@garolopez887]

Agreed surprising these people with his knowledge.

[@francoistheron4904]

I am not a sailor but found this one of your best videos yet! Extremely enlightening!

[@Shane_Hendrix]

Hopefully you guys got some good sponsorship offers. I can think of no better stewards of the marine electric industry than you. The amount of interest this channel has generated in the field is worth its weight in gold.

[@TheGreenBoater]

I have attended boat shows for over 50 years - my dad was a boat builder - and now cover boat shows as a content creator. I can honestly say that your reporting at METS was nothing short of EPIC! 💥Great insight into all the main players. Rarely do I watch a +57 minute video - but this is worth the time 🕥 if you are serious about the electric propulsion industry for mariners. Thank you Dan and Kika for doing all the heavy🏋‍♂lifting on this one. ~tgb

[@PaulSavage-c7p]

I have to say as a marine engineer I could not stop watching this video! Easily the best, most informative and up to date analisis of current market trends. I like the way you left the best one to the end, in my view Oceanvolt are still number one for yachts.

[@CAMacKenzie]

Elco is also one of the companies which made PT boats, landing craft, crash boats and probably other small craft during World War II.

[@billboothe7725]

You guys are fantastic. That was one of the best trade shows I never went to but learn so much you. You know the questions to ask. You know what's important and it makes all the difference in the world. When when you when you know what you're looking for or know what you're trying to find, you control the situation instead of the salesperson and it's nice to see somebody that knows the right questions to ask and gets s gets the ant the best answers possible because of proper questions. So great job! I mean I. I was fantastic by this be exposed to some of this new technology and that you'll never hear about anywhere else. It's not advertised on the internet very much. It's the most important thing we can do for our marine life is to stop putting fuel in there water..

[@Dan6erous]

I'm impressed with these reps. Very friendly, straightforward, and willing to back their products and science. Oceanvolt is great, but very specific. Thanks for exploring all of these options. Everyone's needs are different and specific.

[@goulash75]

For me, three companies stood out. Remigo is perfect for a tender or hobby sail boat (and the other similar company... can't remember the name). Combi is the perfect intermediary solution for those who don't want to go fully electric just yet, for what ever reason. And, despite the price, Ocean Volt is on top of the game for fully electric, regenerative propulsion for long term cruisers.

[@svkotona]

We're one of the "performance bulletin" sailboats that the ePropulsion rep mentioned. We are extremely pleased with the electric motor on that boat and are considering another of their motors for our new boat.

[@SailingUma]

Would love to hear more about your set up as we couldn’t find ANYTHING on their website about test boats or sea trial numbers or regen tests.

[@svkotona]

@SailingUma Happy to share. ePropulsions does kinda bury the Performance Bulletins. At the very bottom of their homepage, under the Service heading is a link Performance Bulletin. We installed the Pod 3.0 Evo in our Beneteau 235. While regeneration was a consideration, for us it was more the quiet, and the lack of maintenance. My wife wanted to be able to single-hand the boat but didn't want to have to deal with a recalcitrant outboard. So we went electric and don't regret it at all. The complete system includes the Pod (3kw direct drive motor), motor controller, 4kw 48v battery, throttle, display and cabling. It was mostly a plug and play install. Drilling holes in the bottom of your hull is slightly unnerving the first time you do it, but after that it was pretty straightforward. As far as performance, we were delighted. 1kw (with a clean hull) would keep us at 5kn for about 4 hours. Since we use this boat primarily as a daysailer, and are rarely more than 10 miles from our home port, that was plenty of power to get us back if the wind completely died. Our max calculated range was about 25 miles with just the one 4kw battery. We never pushed it that far; we prefer to sail when possible. One thing I will say about their regen system is that it does work, but. For our use case, inland lakes with a boat that has a 22' waterline and a hull speed of just over 6kn, it didn't really do much. That may be due to the prop being optimized for thrust rather than regen. Oceanvolt definitely has the tech edge there. The most we saw was about 100w at around 5kn and usually more like 75w. But the ePropulsion regen chart (on their Pod page), made it clear that below 6kn you really weren't going to get much back. On a larger boat that can maintain say 7kn or 7.5 kn, and do that on a 200 mile passage, it would have more impact. Happy to answer any other questions, either here or offline. ​

[@good.morning.everyone]

It’s interesting to see a company represent the value of regen capabilities based on a use case. It’s not like that capability adds complexity or cost to a system, only to the R&D and design load. So tell me they’re not interested in investing the time in regen capability but somehow all are interested in being considered the best at what they do. Ocean Volt is the only company that seems to understand that a successful implementation of this technology might not fit exactly to how people use a boat now, but it might change the way all people use a sailboat - in the same way that the combustion engine changed automobiles and human mobility.

[@mymobile5014]

Ocean Volt may well be trying to be the best at what they do but come on, £27K for a motor for a 10 metre sailboat? You can actually buy a sailboat for that money. Or 6 diesel engines. Nothing can justify that sort of price.

[@SailingUma]

Volume production is the only way to bring the prices of any of these systems down. They’re all still made by hand basically. With European labour costs.

[@luckybeanzphoto]

It still doesn't make it any more affordable today. @@SailingUma would you guys have gone for it if you had to pay full price for it? I would have loved to install one, but the price just couldn't be justified.

[@murraymadness4674]

As was said in the video, doing regen well in a boat is NOT just software like it is in a car. It requires different propellers and waterflow characteristics.

[@pnwcruiser]

Oceanvolt's servoprop saildrive sounds terrific but in my case the extra $10K, over the Electric Yacht option with much lower regen performance, is far too much. I suspect the same will be true for most who cruise on a modest budget.

[@southernfriedkiwi7726]

I appreciate how honest some of the company reps were, in regards to the repeated question of "regen". Regen only starts to make sense over 8 knots, but preferably 10. The point people have made about Uma not being worthy of this current gut job, was that it doesn't suit your needs/requirements, going forward. If regen is so important, then it makes more sense to get a larger boat with more length at the waterline(faster) and more real estate for batteries, as well as solar.

[@SailingUma]

We can generate more power than we can use currently on Uma when offshore sailing. Sailing at 5kts we break even, anything faster and we’re charging. Of course a boat that can average 10+ kts would be sweet. But we don’t have $1,000,000 just lying around burning a hole in our pocket.

[@southernfriedkiwi7726]

@@SailingUma You still fire up your generator though, because your energy storage is depleted very quickly, when used for(very slow) propulsion. My point for a larger vessel is also about having significant space for lifepo4. Generating power through regen, is kind of moot, if you don't have the space to store it. Also, regen math doesn't really add up unless you're on long passages with great daily average kts, which one of the reps brought up. At the end of the day, you guys can do what you want, based on eco ideals. Everyone else though, has to live in the real world where none of us get free tech or significantly discounted tech because of a "channel". The cost in the real world is ridiculous, when compared to ICE tech, with way less practicality. I like the idea of hybrids. I like the idea of quiet anchoring and leaving marinas. General propulsion needs though, can't be seriously replaced with batteries that absolutely have to be switched out in X amount of years, at huge expense.

[@mikeroberts1219]

I can’t believe there are people in the electric boat propulsion industry who don’t know who you guys are!! You’re like the og’s of electric sail boats.great video so much to learn at a show like that. Thank-you!!!

[@DaEVOthefreak]

couse that are just normal employes with no enthusiast in there profession

[@bogdanconstantin7539]

Be shure that they know, just not admiting it for various reasons :)

[@richardelder256]

What a marathon! After watching it I am even more impressed with the pioneer Wylie 44 that I spent two weeks sailing the Bahamas on 16 years ago. It was based around a large, slow turning propeller of optimum shape for efficiency in the 4-10 knot range that the boat regularly delivered. It was always on. When sailing you had the option to have it slowly turning producing no electricity and with essentially no drag, or with a simple move of the throttle you could feed as much electricity into the battery as the system was capable of absorbing or pull power from the battery or from the generator in diesel-electric mode. Out of the entire 40 exhibits in the show only one company followed that philosophy. It is superior to our pioneer system because it had a 360 degree rotating drive and more advanced controllers. My impression was that only that company and Ocean Volt really care about the people like you who want to regen while crossing oceans. The others read their market correctly, because most sailors just want to have an afternoon in the sun and be able to brag about the high tech in their boat at the bar afterwards.

[@davidabbett7011]

FANTASTIC episode!!! This is the “inside sailing” details we love from you two. Many Thanks again, for this episode.

[@Satinori_]

Thanks for this video! For me as a hobby sailor, engineer who worked in the automotive EV-development and DIY-fan, your videos are some of the best that you can find on KZbin. You know the things that you are talking about. The challenge of recharge on smaller boats seems to be still open.

[@richb313]

Thanks for taking the time to interview and research so many companies in the field not all of them understand your needs and wants regen wise.

[@carlamerritt490]

UMA knows their viewers! I seriously loved this one. I'm gonna end up watching this one multiple times. Love the editing also! ❤

[@sailingsarpedon]

Awesome video! Thank you so much for doing this Dan and Kika! It is great to see the awareness building. When we first started looking into electric sailing, it led us to your channel and your homemade electric motor. We have been following along ever since. Keep driving the discussion. It is so important. 🎉

[@C_R_O_M________]

I loved when you said to the guy at Epropulsion that the 1KW engine isn't going to bring the dingy on plane and he answered "no, definitely not!" and then he made a nonsensical statement saying "it's all about moving the boat efficiently" when in fact bringing the boat on plane IS the most efficient way of using propulsion energy! From this alone one can deduce that this whole circus is a lot of marketing BS. P.S. Electric motors ARE more efficient than ICE motors, that's also a fact, but you'll need to add a lot of weight to a small boat from a huge heavy battery to get a motor powerful enough to get you on plane. Someone needs to calculate a golden ratio for his/her application. In other words...it depends on what your application is.

[@SVHummingbird2]

I started watching you two primarily because of your electric propulsion. This was a great trip through the industry. we have an electric motor in our new boat that I haven't yet had in the water, but this coming spring we should be finding out how well it works. And yes it will have regen capability, time will tell how much. Keep up the good work.

[@captain_james_draco]

Yep

[@MogleCorp]

Thank you for doing this. Well done.

[@Glenbard4]

The hilarious part was the guy saying (correctly) if there’s a problem in a boat you can’t just get out… and his company is the one partnered with Fisher Panda, a company infamous for horrible generators that fail and even worse customer service when their crappy, overpriced products fail.

[@johnalberto7855]

My experience with Fisher Panda hasn't been very good even after trying to contact a sales person or a manager, they never returned my emails.

[@JCGible]

Thanks again for all the energy you put into this episode 😊

[@teamstevensonGenEric]

Not only learn about sailing but electric propulsion engineering! Love your channel props for continuing to ask on regen - if enough people keep asking and they see a market they will develop.

[@cliffnicholls]

Brilliant video guys, thanks for a superbly informative piece of work. As a sailor I am very interested in this technology, and like you, I think the holy grail is regen. I think in the next few years the norm for new boats will be hybrid systems that offer at least 3-4 hours of range from a battery system that can be recharged either from regeneration or a backup generator. What would be nice to see is a system that can be retrofitted to older sail boats which most of us sail at sensible price!

[@JanB.Oehme-Rehmet]

A big thank you for this informative video! If I hadn’t had the chance to do my 1st Atlantic crossing at that time I would have attended the boat show in January myself to chat with the companies. After a runaway Diesel engine in 2023 we finally decided to switch to an electric system in the upcoming months. Have you guys had a chance to look into WaterWorld and their products? I'm keen to hear your opinion. It's for a smaller narrow and light 28 ft boat from 1974 (RJ 85) with a moderate long keel. Currently equipped with an inboard 8 hp, a shaft, and a 2-bladed Gori folding prop. Mainly sailing with this boat in the Baltic sea and hardly using the engine. Hence, regen wouldn’t be important for the traction battery but could be interesting for the service battery for those trips where we’re staying away from ports for three days. Thank you!

[@mrhalfstep]

I was just looking for a way to make my 24 volt trolling motor move my little fishing raft from one end of the lake to the other, faster, and you guys hooked me into watching (in fascination) an hour long video about technology that really didn't help my cause at all, but I loved it!! Really well done content creation. Hat's off!

[@jacobKC3MRA]

We had an ePro on our sailboat and loved it. The boat had about 5k displacement and that motor worked so well.

[@brucehutcheson5371]

I have built electric outboards before and in the interest in regen, its almost like you need a different unit that is really designed for regen other than the unit that is built for boat drive. Its great to have one unit to do both but I think the regen characteristics would be one that has more prop blades and is designed to spin the motor generator at a high rpm while the unit for moving the boat would be designed with less prop blades and spin at a lower rpm for energy consumption efficiency. Hard to get regen out of a unit designed to drive the boat. Another solution would be to make an outboard that has a high speed and low speed gear drive in the lower end that could be switched back and forth to put it in regen or drive mode. I don't believe anyone has looked at that since regen always seems to be such a low priority to the manufacturer. Every opportunity to make electric power for storage should be considered when doing long distance sailing from prop regen to solar to wind. More power input may allow less battery capacity which is money weight and space. Best of luck to what you end up designing. Hope you find a sponsor there to try out their products and showcase them for both you and their benefit. Love you guys and your channel.

[@donnordstrom31]

That 360 degree stuff looks pretty amazing, both for maneuverability and regen.

[@abcangirl]

😮THIS episode was mind-blowing and so enlightening. I am certain the average person has no idea how far this technology has come. I live in Alberta with a premier who is so addicted to oil and gas, it makes me want to cry. After shutting down Alternative Energy companies, and promising future electricity powered by gas, I feel we are reversing into the dark ages. The knowledge I have gained from watching this video, gives me hope. There must be change! I feel it is happening too slow for my liking. I am retired now but I so want to leave this earth with hope for my young relatives and future generations. The few moments I spend with you watching your adventures and the pure happiness you exude, brings a brightness to my days.❤🎵🐻🌎🌠

[@C_R_O_M________]

Stick with that premier, she knows much better than you! P.S. Let me phrase it differently: you don't know what you are talking about!

[@courtrichardson]

This video was so well done and informative! Your channel provides such an education! Thank you both for the hard work and great job!

[@Sam_Sung_White]

Great!!! Thanks for glimpse of a very obviously interesting and informative exhibition.

[@novaluxe963]

Great video, one thing you may not know is regeneration acts differently for Permanent Magnet motors and Asynchronis motors (two common ones). The difference is an Asynchonis motor can be allowed to freewheel (just spin without resistance) and a permanent magnet cannot. The Pod motors from WaterWorld are permanent magnet and they have excellent regeneration but its not yet released because fringe scenarios still need to be accounted for by the programming. Specifically, preventing regeneration when batteries are full. A folding prop is a mechanical way to prevent regeneration and is the suggested method for sailboats but other options may be better. Regen is a complicated problem but long story short all electric motors can do it. Next 5 years will see a lot of optimization in this space.

[@curtissmith2816]

Awesome video! I have the epropulsion 1kw outboard with hydrogeneration on my 2,000-pound trailer sailer. It's great. Yes, the hydrogeneration is not really necessary. It's more like a cool party trick, but I like that I'm learning how hydrogeneration works and what to expect. Because, eventually, I'm going to win the lottery and get a bigger boat.

[@jmurray96]

Love how dude from Bellmarine says “watts”. I got this playing in the background as I work and all I keep hearing is him saying *Twatts* 🤣

[@HellyWelly93]

Fantastic work! And so thought provoking.

[@TheAtma50]

Fantastic presentation. All companies interviewed had their own angles to the same question, Combi looked good but would weight and space be an issue? EPTechnologies looked good until the regen comment, Kika spoke volumes with the look @46.24. Omega Grey had a very good presentation too but Ocean Volt seemed to me to have won this debate so far. Again, I must compliment your research and presentation. Looking forward to what comes next! Stay Safe & Fair Winds!! ☘

[@xbioman7882]

This might be the most informative episode you guys have ever done. Certainly the most informative on electric propulsion. Great job!

[@theunknownunknowns256]

32 mins in, I can clearly see the future of marine electric propulsion is going to use a combination of these ideas. Soooo cool to watch the development.

[@thisismyname3328]

Looking into electric for my narrowboat, to enjoy all the peace and quiet I can. This is SO interesting!!

[@jimmunro4649]

Charging in Winter really good and lithium battery's catch fire all the time

[@charonstyxferryman]

@@jimmunro4649 Quote you "catch fire all the time" Liar! Li-ion is not the only lithium battery technology out there. LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) is the type of battery used on leisure electric boats.

[@hansklein8024]

First of all: Incredible, thank you for the great video and for sharing your insights!!! Just one question: I know you guys love regen and are huge fans. But: Assuming that electric propulsion on a sailboat is a goal: Is the regen factor really worth it? Getting a cheaper system without regen and buying 1-2 wind generators might have a few advantages: - You can use a standard folding prop, the whole system is more simple and rubust. Repair and spare parts worldwide might be easier. - If you're anchoring, regen will not work, but the wind generators will. What do you think?

[@evaodland7349]

I have a 30 foot flush deck race boat (6200 lbs displacement ) with a dead inboard diesel (BMW D7) I am looking to replace with a electric propulsion system. Just on-off dock and to from race course if becalmed. Looking at keeping the prop shaft and folding prop - regen not needed. Simple.

[@jakobschoen6499]

As an electric car driver and a big fan of your channel, I found this episode particularly interesting.🤩👍🏻

[@Leblueskee]

I've been watching you guys for so many years and I still love every single video you post. I love this one cause I never seem to be able to make it to stuff like this but you guys got in depth reviews and didn't ruin it with lies like most people would because of a sponsorship. Thanks for all that you guys do

[@michaelalbert8474]

Great episode! I had no idea so many companies were building what I built in my garage. Unfortunately your question about regen is a matter of physics. In order to create a useful amount of regeneration requires an unacceptable amount of drag. So in light wind conditions, the extra drag slows the boat and the slower boat speed reduces regeneration so it just doesn’t work. In high wind conditions the extra power from the sails can overcome the extra drag created but in a mono hull your speed will only translate into nominal regeneration. But you must also take into consideration the stress you are putting on your rigging and creating an uncomfortable sail rather than reefing the sales. Catamarans do a bit better as do longer boats just because the higher speeds through water. Bottom line, there are better ways to generate energy without adversely affecting your boat speed or stress on rigging.

[@michaelalbert8474]

The sales people who called regen “free” were not telling the truth.

[@SailingUma]

We’ve sailed now with a Servoprop for 3 years. Yes, if we’re sailing at 5kts in 10kts of wind and try to regen, it slows us down by .25-.3 of a knot. But in typical conditions, 15-20kts, it doesn’t slow us down any and makes 500-600W. On faster boats this numbers go up exponentially.

[@obsidianjane4413]

I love trade shows. This is an awesome resource for a snapshot of the state-o-the-art-at-the -moment. Well done.

[@jimfisk4474]

Hi Dan and k i k a, the Regeneration aspect of the batteries is really cool. Amazing the Motor companies involved add new ones coming along all the time. Within 5 years or more I just b e t j a they will double the speed of boats. Thanks for taking us along and catch you next time.❤❤❤

[@gsh341]

Oceanvolt seemed to be the only company that was really interested in finding solutions for the 30' to 60' full time, live-abord, cruising sailboats.

[@dajobra]

Don't overlook those combi guy's, they have a big used boat market

[@thorpowell6571]

I priced a OV unit for my sailboat.... the price was eye watering.

[@gsh341]

@@thorpowell6571 They aren't cheap, but then, they are meant to last for the life of the boat and be a complete replacement for a diesel motor. Not to mention the diesel engine might be cheaper, but you have to constantly buy diesel which adds up. If you run out of diesel on the water, you're SOL. If the batteries on your boat die on the water, you can recharge as you sail through regeneration or solar.

[@pnwcruiser]

Check out Electric Yacht. They don't offer the high performance servoprop, which sounds terrific, but the price is much lower for a KW equivalent saildrive. I haven't made a final decision for my 36' sloop yet but Electric Yacht is looking like the best option. $10K more, essentially for much better regen, is just too much for my budget.

[@MarkSpohr]

Thanks for this exhaustive (and exhausting) survey of electric motors.

[@SailingSisu]

Wow, another incredible and eye-opening video, Dan! You really did your research and brought the truth about electric propulsion to light. It's great to see a customer like you with so much knowledge challenging the salesperson. Your experience truly shines through. Also, a big shoutout to Kika for her amazing interviewing skills. This is definitely one of the best videos yet, I found it extremely enlightening. It's fascinating to see companies like Ocean Volt understanding the potential of regen capabilities and how it could revolutionize the way we use sailboats. Amazing job, Kika and Dan, on providing all this valuable information. Thank you for sharing your journey with us!

[@edgarmuller6652]

Great interviews and reviews. Thanks for the leg work. Kika must be tired of running back and forth. You always manage to entertain while inform.

[@kimblemooney2757]

Excellent walk around - boats shows make me dizzy thanks for the info.

[@piaottiker9829]

For me my favorite was ep technologies because he said us what we needed to hear about the saildrive and not what we were wanting to hear. I love ur videos they are very informative thx

[@animegaming4613]

Thanks for the leg work! Saved me a lot of time!

[@billhanna8838]

Combi looks good, Simple , Robust & the best of both worlds , Thanks .

[@ottotimmons]

That was excellent! I really enjoyed all the interviews and the fun 'endless-aisle-walking' transitions!

[@brucemckelvy9920]

I thought it was interesting in most of the presentations that they had no idea the experience level both of you have with electric power and regen. I had to smile at some of the responses when you asked about regen capabilities. :-). Very informative. Thanks for filming.

[@hansschweikert9153]

Wow. The benefit to the community can not be overstated. Great info. Thank you.

[@dougsrepair1060]

To be honest I almost gave this episode a pass. But, I have to admit it is very interesting and you guys did a fantastic job of capturing the interview. I give you top marks on this.

[@7drobin]

Whao, there is some much stuff that I was not aware off. Fantastic! Thanks for bringing those to my attention.C'est manifique!!!!

[@SVImpavidus]

Very interesting. There are two other questions I would be asking. Firstly the carbon footprint of electric systems when compared to the potential lifetime of a diesel over electric. IE sustainability and repair when the do eventually fail. Diesels can almost always be repaired, even if it is un economic financially to do so. Secondly the motor is only 50% of the system. Too many of the systems currently available focus on Lithium - Ion batteries not LiFePO4. The former being "borrowed" from the automotive industry and very susceptible to thermal runaway if damaged or there is a charging fault. Lithium Ion should be treated as a potential hazard on a boat whether its a scooter, electric bike or the main power bank. Sail Safe Guys, Ant & Cid.

[@JonathanVanVuren]

Very eye opening, I really enjoyed the episode. The Combi caught my eye as I’ve been considering a larger alternator already. We aren’t full time live aboard cruisers (yet) and the ability to keep our 55 Yanmar that’s in good condition AND enjoy the benefits of electric propulsion in and out of the marina daily is super appealing. Will be checking it out more!

[@kenbeiser4443]

Over 40! WOW. That’s some tradeshow and a huge effort by you. Thank you and I am considering some e propulsion for my antique tank, Baba 40. Perfect timing.

[@garyten13]

I think you guys are a lot further ahead of not only most sea going sailors, but also the industry. Most of, if not all the manufacturers, cater for the weekend / holiday boaters, who dont have the needs for regen. Its really all about cost, as any electric powertrain carries a near treble the cost to to that of a Internal combustion engine, mostly from Batterys and charging kit / infrastructure. The Oceanvolt servoprop system alone, is worth more than most peoples boats, i think the whole kit is something around 80K euros, and you need fit it. Most sailors i know wouldnt venture too far off shore with any electic propulsion system. In fact most sailors would just wait for wind, even if it takes days or weeks. There are to many weird and one off parts, and voltages , and with so many competing designs, electic drives would need to standarise themselves so that the components would become intercompatible with each other. Imagine rolling into a place like Svalbard on a friday night needing some one off sensor, and they dont have it in stock with your manfacturer. Hybrid is the solution for the sea going sailor, or even a power boat, as seen with dutch company Combi, and the UK company Hybrid Marine, they fill that gap with both diesel , electric, and regen, all in one package, with the bonus of not needing a diesel generator. It maybe 20 or so years before electric propulsion for offshore boats, becomes the standard, and there will need to be a big technology jump, in batteries, along with a Industry standardisation on voltages alone. It takes a lot of time before people see the reliabily and durability for sea / salt water electric kit, before you can say its really better, because the price is still to high, and questionable reliability for the long term.

[@c.a.mcneil7599]

I was so surprised when oceanvolt was the last. And the person also said in your boat. Great job promoting ocean volt when majority of electric motors were little out boards. And asking regen on those. Sorry Dan don’t know any little outboard that has sails to move it. Great for one that sponsors you oceanvolt.

[@downwind_david]

I've been running an E-propulsion Spirit 1.0 on the back of my 6m trailer sailer for over four years now, so it is interesting to see how far the market has developed, as it was really only E-Prop and Torqeedo who had anything half decent when I first started looking. I'm currently slowly upgrading a 30 footer, and electric propulsion will feature eventually, so thanks very much for the video - shame that the regen offerings are still pretty limited. Looking forward to any follow up videos of the few companies that showed some promise.

[@avoirdupois1]

Thanks for doing all of this hard work to highlight a growing industry!

[@foobar9220]

I can totally understand that many companies do not focus on regeneration. Most boats are not sailed around the world, anchoring when not being sailed. They spend like 90-95% of their time in the marina to be sailed on the weekends. For those, regeneration is simply not something that matters. But I can still see how an electric motor makes things easier here. Instead of carrying canisters of fuel, spilling some on the boat, one simply plugs into shore power. And it is much more silent. The same reasons I went for a battery-electric lawnmower. It is just more convenient than a combustion-powered one

[@dacharyzoo]

Wow, times have changed! OceanVolt & Combi are the clear winners.

[@fatherfoxstrongpaw8968]

ocean volt isn't the only ones finally learning why planes have props facing forward (puller/tractor config) vs facing backwards (pusher). the 2 biggest reasons having the prop facing back is convenience in engine placement as well as less prop snagging on ropes, seaweeds debris, rocks etc, but facing forwards is maximum efficiency since there's nothing in front of the prop to take wind (or water) away. it's just more susceptible to damage, snags and drag. some twin engine planes also feather their props in the event of a single motor loss to prevent weatherveining causing a flat spin due to drag. ocean volt got it right for a static mount. i like the EPT better since the prop is more efficient. either way, if your facing forward, go feathering. facing back wards, furling.

[@skaraborgcraft]

I am surprised you have never seen anything like the Combi. I priced up a system for a client, and a 10hp Beta diesel with a piggy-back vetus electric drive, was not only cheaper than full electric with the required range, but as you note, a mega battery charger that required short run time for a full charge. Some may prefer a diesel, or like you, a petrol generator as a back, rather than a complete engine. Real world use matters at the end of the day to what is optimum for each use.

[@SailingUma]

We’ve seen plenty of electric motors strapped on the back of a diesel to create a “hybrid” system. It’s definitely not new. Also not our favourite solution. But usually those systems are for new installs. We’d never seen a company that willingly promoted retrofitting any existing diesel with a plate adapter to mount an electric motor. That’s what we were interested in for all those who have a working diesel but still want electric.

[@trev1980x]

That Combi hybrid was super interesting - particularly for people with a diesel already. Thanks for the video!

[@lerkzor]

I was delighted to see all the various designs of electric systems, but kind of disappointed that many of them thought of regeneration as a secondary or insignificant feature. KUDOS to the companies that performed some actual testing on regen, and have their data available on their site to potential customers.

[@johnparker7945]

Was interesting the gentleman that said regen is over hyped except for big crossings. Great video!!

[@Jimbob-gs5kl]

Would love to see your understanding of all things electric converted into a graphic animation of how it all works. I reckon, with your abilities, you'd probably find someone to do that! Would really get those of us interested in the engineering, but not the conceptual knowledge, up to speed (especially for the Combi one!). Fantastically engaging video, as always. Great seeing the enthusiasm, passion and ability demonstrated in these companies and by Dan!

[@rcmedway]

Brilliant! So much information. Saved me going there. I'm a sailor to. Regen makes total sense to me.. but you must realize that not many people do what you are doing - which is why I watch you : -) - FYI - have a Torqeedo for my dinghy. Would not recommend. Great outboard, but when I had problems, customer service sucked. Still broken.

[@SV_Aroo]

Great episode guys. It was fun seeing their reaction when they realized you might be seeing through the smoke. Some interesting takes on regen.

[@nanoceramics2747]

excellent, very educational, You are differentiating yourselves from the others. We as sailers enjoy learning new things in the market.

[@johnmaliskey7951]

I like the guys from down under. They seemed to check all the box's on your list and said it with full confidence on the subject .............................. enjoy

[@o0bananaman0o]

great coverage! the focus on regen was a bit weird though, as an engineer and an owner of a torqeedo powered 30' sailboat for 5 years I thought the issues would be pretty obvious, and some of the reps even said: drag/regen ratio, optimisation for thrust not turbine, hydrodynamic handling issues, parasitic drag etc

[@micheldawes1]

Hey guys! Another very well-polished episode and great to see that the industry is striding ahead in leaps and bounds (And finally starting to embrace the cruising ethos!) When you first installed the golf-cart motor all those years ago, I have to admit that I was definitely not onboard with the idea. I just felt a little more at ease knowing there was a heavy piece of machinery able to get me out of trouble if I ever put myself in the situation that I couldn't sail myself out of. I will say that now, I am completely onboard with the idea of an electric motor and multiple recharging options (Including regen! great to see an Australian at the forefront of the industry and hopefully our muppets in the Australian government will soon let go of their carbon - fuelled addiction and transition to renewables ASAP. Still loving your channel, after all these years! (Came for the sailing and stayed for the education!) Keep up the great work and looking forward to someday sailing with you - or crossing wakes with you, or even just sharing a beer and a (LONG!) yarn with you! Cheers, Mike Sydney, Australia

[@TheMrBrianh]

I like how you asked everyone, "Does your system do regen?". If they are interested in sales to the sailing industry, the companies that blew off the question will have to reach a solution.

[@ceirwan]

I kind of agree with the last guy, its a nice feature, but its usefulness is probably overstated. The systems don't seem to generate an awful lot of power unless you're sailing quite quickly. Sort of like wind gens, most people find that solar is much more useful.

[@TheMrBrianh]

​@ceirwan If you watch this channel, you will see them using it nearly every time they sail, to good effect.

[@PPKFilms]

@@TheMrBrianhyeah but they are a somewhat fringe case. For a company that wants to do proper business, the money is not in full time around the world cruisers, it’s in week end warriors, day sailers and charter boats / holidays that cruise a couple of week at a time and are doing a few nights at anchor here and there but are also often in marinas. I’m not on a sailboat but I live in a van full time, and the RV / can industry is the same. I had to do some big changes to the van to make it truly autonomous, because most buyers for these things go to campsites quite often and don’t work on editing video from the road.

[@TheMrBrianh]

@@PPKFilms I do not disagree that full time world cruisers, like Kika and Dan, are a niche market. You are probably correct that companies will not "have to" find a solution, but I still feel that it is short sighted.

[@PPKFilms]

@@TheMrBrianh long term it’s probably a good option if you think of sailing cargo ships. But that’s decades in the future I think

[@mazdarx7887]

The problem with regen is the expense for what you get. And, it's only good under way. Waste of money if most of your time is at anchor or docked. Which is what most people do. AND the constant cruising community is so small, it's not worth it for a company to develop anything. Got to sell lots of units to make the price good . How much money would you have to charge to make a dozen to two dozen units a year for boats in the 30 to 40 foot range. This is why units that do have regen are lucky that it didn't cost much to build it in without losing forward efficiency.

[@AlotOfSunInHeaven]

Quality content! Thank you for taking us along.

[@seanobrien7169]

Very clever to juxtaposition EPTechnologies against Ocean Volt. That was not lost on me. The German guy said a couple times this is what you want on your boat. But he dissed regen like it is a bad thing compared to Ocean Volt that is centered around it. Yeah...you found the right fit with Ocean Volt.

[@kylem324]

I think he was just being honest that it’s not a silver bullet for most cruisers. Taking input from all the interviews. Regen only really possible above 4kts. Under 8kts it’s not efficient. It slows you down, and doesn’t make much power. So unless you regularly average speeds above 8kts, or are comfortable reducing your speed by 15% there isn’t a meaningful benefit. Crossing the Atlantic would be an extra 3 days. Would the power be meaningful if you’re capturing solar and charging during periods where you might have to motor anyways? Both reps are sales people. I guess I tend to trust the person that sees a customer ready to make a purchase and is honest that the product isn’t going to be great in a specific area.

[@seanobrien7169]

@@kylem324 I will ask you the same question I asked another nay-sayer: Do you watch this channel? Because already, according to these content creators, their regen is a definite benefit. And the technology is young, as one "sales rep" said, it is mostly in the software. At least Ocean Volt is seeing a market for it and is actively pursuing the technology instead of simply dismissing it. Granted it is probably not going to be of much benefit to the day sailer or the weekend cruiser, but there is still a significant number of people that are permanent cruisers living onboard. Is it a "silver bullet"? I don't think anyone claimed it was. But kika and Dan's experience has so far proven it can be beneficial and should not be so easily dismissed.

[@kylem324]

@@seanobrien7169 Yes I watch the channel. Yes I’ve seen the videos where they’ve fitted, used it, and talked about their experiences. I also didn’t say that there was no benefit to the idea of using regen. Only that between 4-8kts using it requires certain compromises based off the R&D of the companies that have spent the time working on regen. I wouldn’t characterize anything that I said as being naysayer’esque. Only that we should be mindful of when a sales person tells us what we want to hear. And that if I didn’t highlight it, the use case UMA presents is far from the centre of the bell curve. Which is an important factor when you’re commercializing any technology. Is it cool what Oceanvolt is doing, and how they’ve supported the channel. Yes. But they are serving a niche industry. Which could be short sighted as bigger companies will inevitably take market share. And is only developing a 48V system going to be beneficial in the future? What Dan and Kika delivered was a really interesting hour long video into where marine EV commercialization was and the areas of focus of various players. There’s an interesting conversation to be had about marine EV business, it’s TAM, and the Market Entry strategy (and products) each of these companies is pursuing.

[@vincentstouter449]

Dan & Kika, I’d just like to thank you both for your ongoing research to stay on top of the rapidly evolving evolution of electric marine propulsion. and regeneration. I imagine that prop design is another key design piece to the regeneration design puzzle. 😎👍

[@joekellyou]

I have 25’ with a 6HP outboard motor. We had an issue with it and thought we were going to have to replace it (we figured it out though). When looking to replace it we wanted electric and I think Epropulsion and Torqeedo were the only two that we could find selling an equivalent replacement that shipped to US consumers. Watching this video, makes me wish some of this other companies had better marketing/shipping capabilities!

[@SailingUma]

Yes. Agreed. There are SO many more options in Europe.

[@captain_james_draco]

Well done guys this is the best information I have found . I have a 36ft Roberts ketch with a 30hp Yanmar diesel that I want to pull out and sell with low hours to help pay for the conversion

[@gertgratlos]

Super report, thanks for this tense storytelling. Now we are up to date in terms of e-drivelines for our boats! And after all, your walkabout through the Amsterdam RAI Halls reminded me to the days, when I was reporting from there about the newest developments in trucks and trailers. But that was 20 years ago...Go on like that!

[@TheSharkGirls]

Great work. We've had a Thoosa on our 50ft Alu Sloop since before they were Clean eMarine. Regen gets going around 8 knots. We also have solar & direct wind. The batteries are the limit. We have a diesel backup.

[@b.b.grenade1407]

Any relation to the PT Boat company of WW2 vintage? Elco?

[@JasRoss]

Guys! Well done on interview prep. Knowledgeable and asking the right questions. Saves the rest of us from making the trip!

[@garyweber7139]

The last co. with the prop facing forward I found most interesting. Perhaps mounting a forward facing prop in front of the keel might be most efficient. Since an aft prop must push the boat up various waves some work is wasted lifting the boat. Like an aircraft propeller, in front of the wing the rising and falling of the hull when underway should have less energy loss, and with less obstruction to the sea more efficient regeneration. I'm also thinking it might work best mounted to the keel instead of the hull. What are your thoughts?

[@herberthahn6964]

Amazing! The content is more than I would have believed possible. Your exceptional interview skills were pivotal, to showcasing the vast array of electric drive, and regeneration products currently on the market, and under development. My understanding of the issues has broadened. I especially appreciate receiving quality content from smiling venders. This video is simply amazing!

[@jimilipi5493]

Cool. On the Virgin Mojito 888 mentioned in the video, the classic materials are also replaced: fiberglass by linen fiber, felt (soric) by cork, corecell foam by PET foam.

[@nealeburgess6756]

One thing that was clear from your interviews was there was only one company interested in Regen. I was amused by one salesman patronisingly telling you that you don't need it and you will virtually never use it! How little he knows.

[@kylem324]

If that was the second to last interview, I took it more to mean that in real world the regen simply isn’t great in the conditions a sailboat deals with. I.e. if you’re not travelling at 8kts minimum, you’re simply not putting much back into your batteries. So while between 4-8kts it’s possible based on what many have reported in the video, the extra drag and reduced performance for < 1kw isn’t a great trade off.

[@jeremyprice679]

But 1kW over a 3 day passage is......

[@britboy20002]

The major problem is that all of these ideas are a hybrid of what we already have from combustion engines, sail drives, small props, high revs. If you go away from this with larger props, slower rpm’s and retractable legs you can change the look of regen. If you don’t have a large prop disk using a 4 or 5 bladed prop the regen will always be poor.

[@kylem324]

@@jeremyprice679 I get the point your making. But I stated less than 1kw as it could be quite a bit less than 1kw. (Not a lot of data…) The question isn’t the cumulative watts, but without that regen, would a boat running solar and some sort of hybrid setup meaningfully need the power? And consider when it prolongs a passage by days. But the great amount of time when not making long passages, it’s not going to make a meaningful difference. You can’t go on a short sail to fully charge your batteries. I like regen. I like that it introduces an element of safety through redundancy by way of complimentary systems. But it has shortcomings that are meaningful to how most people use their boats. Not talking about Uma’s fringe use case specifically, but more broadly cruisers. Also not deriding them for their resource conservation focus in sailing the world. Just that they make compromises most won’t.

[@francesconicoletti2547]

@@jeremyprice679what I’m hearing under the sales speak is that the target market for these small motors are day sailors or shorter passages ( dinghies small racing boats). If you’re going to tie up to a dock at every night with power available, what’s the point of regen ? I suspect that’s the bulk of the sailboat market so low hanging fruit.

[@lenwhatever4187]

fix pitch VS variable pitch vs servo prop. It _is_ true that a fixed pitch prop can be the most efficient prop.... but only at one speed and load. While a variable pitch prop might suffer from having to work well at all pitchs, the needs of an idling prop just starting to move the boat as compared to full speed after the boat is at "cruise speed" (even if that is only 6 knots) are quite different. Regen is different again and needs yet another prop... not just running it backwards (nice try). I listed the servo prop separately because even though it starts out as a variable pitch prop, it is the servo aspect that really makes this work. It is true you can't just stick a servo prop on your current setup and go, it has to be integrated into the system and have the software to make worth anything at all. The use of such a system shows that the company is thinking of the system in all aspects to get the most out of the the power coming from the batteries or from the ships movement back into the batteries. Very much the same as an MPPT charge controller does. What I saw as you moved from booth to booth were over priced trolling motors on the one hand and standard electric motors hooked up to whatever prop was currently in use on the other.... even for commercial use (well small commercial use, you didn't see any systems for really big vessels). The torque curve of the electric motor is so completely different than diesel as to make using the same prop or even RPM range laughable. OK, the first one you looked at was different.... I would have to see side by side test with this compared to a prop at various speed and load conditions. It is a new propulsion style whose characteristics are not yet well known (how long will the moving part last in sea water or sunshine).

[@SailingUma]

Yes. And currently the servo prop has 4 fixed blade angles. But I believe they’re working towards truly variable, as it it’s constantly adjusting based on speed through the water in both regen and propulsion. It also means you can build one system that works on hundreds or different boats by simple software updates.