EXCLUSIVE: Secrets Shared by Marine Battery Manufacturers | Step 381

[@SailingUma]

Thanks for watching. It was a lot and long, we know. But hopefully useful and a bit educational. So what do you think? Which battery would you install in your boat? Is "waterproof" important to you or not? Which one do you think we'll go with?

[@livingsimplytosimplylive6817]

It was informative and I listened to it on my run this morning.

[@ArtemKlochko]

Do not search for battery without BMS params display. You can't say to BMS: do not disconnect battery. Instead, you can monitor BMS params and predict how much it will power your motor depending on conditions you have at this moment. And this is not only battery voltage that you can know without BMS. You also need to monitor cells voltage, Ah left at battery, temperature of battery. You have to learn how to predict when BMS will turn off to do not repeat "sudden" power off as you had with battleborn batteries. When you are using your motor you have monitor BMS params same as you monitor wind direction and speed while sailing.

[@gaetancrepeault9333]

M G men with blue jackets 💙

[@kevinmills5293]

I’d have to choose something which I can maintain and if necessary, repair at sea (maybe not so important for day sailors). A sealed battery with a non serviceable, proprietary BMS would not sit well with me. And the more information about cell state, the better.

The GS Power/InnoPower guy seems very approachable, knowledgeable, and trustworthy. The battery appears to be well thought through and sturdy, though not yet battle tested. I guess you just wanted to confirm your decision for a MG battery and now you might be reconsidering your choice. Either way an interesting video, thank you.

[@ericspeltier]

Message to all these interviewees: Thank you so much for an interview in a 2nd language! That's not easy and we appreciate it!

[@SailHub]

We sure take that for granted sometimes! Too right to thank them!!👍

[@WayOfHaQodesh]

HalleluYAH! Totally agree. Very much appreciate all the interviewees

[@stephanieellis5399]

Answering questions is one thing, but being interviewed is something else entirely. Yes, thank you for sharing your knowledge in a language that isn't your mother tongue.

[@curtissmith2816]

Wait, EP Technologies has a fire suppression system inside their batteries? How is this not bigger news!? Thank you Dan and Kika for the great video!

[@kschlo4work]

Thank you so much for this! The hubby & I have set up two RV vans with electric. One in 2015 with a lot of random parts (there was so little information available then) and another one 3 years ago-mostly Victron (so much easier). Now, we are making plans to upgrade our sailboat. It was super interesting to learn about the specific considerations regarding electric propulsion & the marine environment. Well done! And, compliments to the experts at the booths for being so knowledgeable and fabulous at speaking English.

[@jamesboulton2722]

As an electronics engineer, the only supplier that impressed me is the first EPTechnology. My personal comfort level for a dc cable current limit is 200 amps. Or put another way ~2.5kw for 12v, ~5kw for 24v, ~10kw for 48v systems. For systems above 10kw I would recommend jumping up to 400v dc battery and distributing the power at round the boat in 3phase AC as 400vdc can go into inverters by parsing the initial rectifier and gaining efficiency. Lotsa motors/controllers for 3phase. There’s a very good reasons EV’s have a 400vdc architecture, and some are moving to 800vdc.

[@jamesboulton2722]

@PatRisberg lol. That made my day. Thanks. I’d like to see a dc substation shoe horned into a boat!

[@jamesboulton2722]

Don’t get me wrong , it is possible to use higher currents in a boat, but you need a Marine Electrician that knows the specific use, and can measure and size the cables correctly, knows that the cables aren’t being run next to a hot exhaust, that the crimps are done properly and torqued properly, and that the proper periodic inspections are done. But if there is a problem with corrosion, or loosening nuts due to heat cycling, etc, then with high currents the time between fine and fire is short.

[@jamesboulton2722]

@PatRisberg And that is the difference between an engineered general solution, and a bespoke expensive custom solution.

[@jamesboulton2722]

@PatRisberg Unfortunately my job as an engineer is to design products for manufacture, not just the prototypes. It would certainly be a lot easier if it was.

[@charlieodom9107]

This guy would lose his shit if he saw some of the systems I have Installed in boats. I have one 24v system that can draw nearly 1,000a continuous! I have multiple 12v systems that can charge at 400a or more! One 24v system can charge at 850a theoretically, although this would never happen with normal use. I am regularly drawing several hundred amps on boats, and I've never had any issues. The key is equal resistance cables, massive buss bars, and plenty of fusing.

[@goldwinger1200541]

I was impressed with EP Technologies. They seem to have their stuff together.

[@tomriley5790]

Mastervold and MG seemed more focussed on what you seem to want to do (better bms and current). Great work!

[@brendariley8982]

I'm officially dizzy now. This is huge and a lot to process....BUT......thank you for teaching us. This is exciting.

[@fredward5728]

I would like to see a follow up video where you share your requirements and how close each system gets to meeting them. A summary/comparison of systems would also be nice. Some potential data points might be: $/kwh, cell type, IP rating, power density, type of bms, NMEA 2000 availability, etc... As far as your requirements, how much power do you need for your typical use? How do you plan to charge that amount of batteries? What range do you expect to get from your system? Thanks for sharing the interviews!

[@gregb7353]

What is a shame is that THE topic around marine batteries is "how much power" rather than "how much weight" or "how much space". Raw batteries cells are cheap enough that the discussion should be around other limits, not always money limits. 40kWh in batteries should cost under $8k retail soon but instead it's $30k today. That simply can't last and the application for large batteries is too common, someone is going to come in an each everyone's lunch if they don't scale up.

[@fatherfoxstrongpaw8968]

you've been doing this for 10 years? jeeze, i can't believe i've been watching your channel since episode "we're going full electric". sailing Uma is the first boating channel i started following, mainly because of the electric conversion, but also Kika's name is close to my daughter's name Kira. :) there's a lot of reasons your's and Tally Ho are the only 2 boating channels i've stuck with and what got me excited in maritime again (navy vet). there's a lot of parallels to the RV industry which is my main interest. i'm a diy fanatic, so i love your vids. i takes me down paths of research i'd never have considered otherwise. it really is eye opening to get out of your comfort zone. just an FYI, I don't have a couch. ;)

[@SailHub]

So good to film with you guys! A super interesting topic that is definitely on the rise! It seems that there are some really interesting advances taking place at the moment.. I wonder what you will go with….? I know my first choice!

[@guidouytterhaegen]

I think the one where they get money for to put it in the picture???😊

[@SailHub]

@@guidouytterhaegen😂 I can see why you would think that but these guys are super genuine, I really don’t see a sell out here. They will only use what’s going to work and what they believe in that’s for sure!

[@kevinmills5293]

@@SailHub yeah, I think Dan and Kika know more than the salesmen do. They’ll not be fooled by any sales pitch.

[@SailHub]

@@kevinmills5293 for sure! 👍

[@ricktaylor14001]

@@SailHubAgreed! Most of these companies either didn’t exist, or weren’t in this space at all just 3-4 years ago, Dan & Kika were really ahead of the curve for electric in the marine arena. You KNOW they will choose what works best for them. Notice Dan asked about “cold temperature charging”… so a sponsored system that couldn’t handle the Arctic, even if it’s free, they won’t be putting in UMA, we know they want to return north!

[@robertwoodward5392]

I was so impressed with the technological answers to each question. Some of the units as displayed appeared to large to me for Uma. I liked the compactness off the MG particularly with Ocean Volt working together. Great questions too by all three of you.

[@williammcknight4274]

I really like the solid state battery.

[@jsmith5634]

Thanks for doing this episode…super helpful for Sailors, Van Lifers etc…. Great job Team Uma!! Love the “roving reporter” interviews…. Fair Winds from Austin!

[@hibbiteejibbitee]

You guys are great. Probably the most informative back and forth covering current generation lithium-no matter the application-across the internet.

[@UweBehrendt]

I like the MG system because it has marine experience and seems to be willing to work with you to build a system that suits your needs Im shopping also and was looking forward to this video thanks

[@francesconicoletti2547]

My only worry with MG is the batteries water proof rating. If the batteries are going under the cockpit again a bad wave might take them out. If they go somewhere a bit more out of the weather they seem the most well sorted of the options being shown.

[@rolandtb3]

Comes back to boat application, space, venting, cruising locations, system integration & support, compatible components (fridge, stove, washer/dryer, water maker, coffee machine, microwave, etc), reliability and costs. In cold location or hard for winter, heaters, cycling warm water etc. There will be compromises based on needs list. Whether that be batteries flat/angled/other; bolted vs strapped; series or parallel; amperage or voltage draw steady/peak;timely access to parts and support when systems fail; trickle charge recovery after a power failure; emergency limp mode.

[@allenwinston5157]

WOW, that was amazing to see! I had to watch twice to catch some of the spec's again. Can't wait to see what you guys pick. Talk about and awesome journey.

[@bravofighter]

Y’all are a Godsend. This answered so many questions I was never able to find the answers to in my circles…THANK YOU!

[@prereed]

I learned a ton about the latest in battery technology. Thank you

[@johncrisp6683]

So funny… I am glad my 12v system has the right to exist! I know he didn’t say it in any way other than technical but it sounded funny to hear. 🇨🇦. I must add now how impressed I am about the multi language skills are in Germany. I have been to Sporting Goods shows a few centuries ago in Munich. The shows are massive.

[@mecoollearoyd]

The Oceanvolt guy even speaks Australian!😆

[@charonstyxferryman]

Quote, "I am glad my 12v system has the right to exist!" Weird of you to write that. One uses high voltages in any kind of propulsion system. the reason is the voltage drop. Dublering the voltage reduces the amp by 1/2, but the voltage drop becomes 1/4. 4 times the volts, is 1/4 amps and 1/16 the voltage drop. To calculate the voltage drop specifically for a cable in an electrical circuit, you can use the following formula: Vd = (I * L * R * 2) / (1000 * K) Where: Vd is the voltage drop (in volts). I: is the current in amperes (A) flowing through the cable. L is the length of the cable in feet (ft). R is the resistance of the cable material in ohms per 1000 feet (Ω/1000 ft). K is the circular mils (CM) or circular mil area (CMA) of the cable’s cross-sectional area. This formula is commonly used to calculate voltage drop in cables. Here’s how you can use it: Determine the current (I) flowing through the cable, which is the load current or the current drawn by the connected devices. Measure the length of the cable (L) in feet. If you’re working with meters, you can convert them to feet (1 meter ≈ 3.28084 feet). Find the resistance of the cable material (R) in ohms per 1000 feet. This value is typically provided in cable specifications or reference materials. It depends on the type and size of the cable. Calculate the circular mils (CM) or circular mil area (CMA) of the cable’s cross-sectional area. This involves knowing the cable’s diameter and the specific cross-sectional shape (e.g., round, flat). Plug the values into the formula to calculate the voltage drop (Vd).

[@justincase5272]

That's the puffiest jacket I've ever seen! Are you warm enough? This is an absolutely WONDERFUL video, as batteries are not all created equal! There's total amp-hours, total cycles, cycle rates, cycle depth, electronic management, and my favorite: Total Per-amp-hour Life Cycle Cost of Ownership.

[@anthonyfowler8634]

MG did the best job in sales and assurance. They have their stuff together. I was interested in the “Solid State Batteries” and would like to see outcomes on them.

[@infinityprism5621]

The only downside to that interview that i noticed was the interviewees lack of knowledge about the temperature usage points for the battery. I noticed he kind of danced around the question; though he does not work for mg so it makes sense some of his knowledge was limited.

[@williambunting803]

Super informative! One question you failed to ask was what happens with each system with a lightning strike. Which parts are vulnerable, and how to protect them. Half way through setting my system up I became aware of the risk to electronics of lightning strikes, so did a half turn and have installed a split system with the house bank being non electronic AGM’s (I really wanted to install FireFly AGM’s but they aren’t available in Europe so have Victron’s there, and set up my MG Lithium in a separate stainless Steel housing as a faraday cage, along with all of the MPPT’s, the battery management module, and a Top Systems 100 Amp DC/DC converter. The Lithium side is powered from solar and wind primarily. The House side is powered from the Lithium side and the engine. I have been urging marine electronics manufacturers to include optic fiber interconnection into their hardware. The communications cabling between devices become energy collecting aerials when a boat is struck by lightning, so the obvious thing to do is break the size of the system with non conducting cabling. The other strategy is to use cheap micro controllers for ancillary systems. Arduino, Raspberry Pi, and others, so in the event of a strike pull out damaged boards and replace with a spare from the cupboard. This way you don’t lose all functionality in a flash, mid ocean. So there is the call for some techno boaty who wants to earn his way around the world doing programming instead of video editing, we need some one to program functionality for cruisers.

[@guiseitz]

GS-Power has stainless steel case, but to be honest, we have not calculated lightning strikes in. Its a very good comment 🙂.

[@zenaasura1769]

😂 i see you're not a boater. Nothing currently is even close enough to protect from lighting when on sea. We follow the old mariners wisdom and dont go out to sea when theres a lighting storm warning. What you need to understand that we dont have currently any system that can handle the amount of current and voltage that a lightning produces. We are talking around 300 million volts and about 30000 amps. What ive heard from mariner tales that it melts through the hull as it runs through the mast. So pretty much there is no amiunt of grounding cable that would be able to handle such a blast. For reference an average full electric system is ment to handle around 100-300a continuous load and charge rate. And the other aspect is that insurance doesnt cover what they call acts of god/nature. And lightning damage is under this category. Bc they know its not something you can prepare against. Lets just say mother nature plays around with a much bigger scale then humans ever achieved so far. Hope this helps to understand. If you're hair on your arms stand up and your still around port turn back and moor next to tall building or taller trees. Thats all you can do really.

[@williambunting803]

@@zenaasura1769 Thanks for your thoughts, Znsra. I am a boater who does more living aboard than sailing. But that is just about to change in a month when I depart one hemisphere and head home to another. You’re not completely correct in saying that you can’t protect against lightning. The problem with our modern boats is that we have the materials the wrong way around. The shrouds are stainless steel which is a bad conductor, and the mast is aluminium is a good conductor. So when the lightning strikes the mast it is direct down to the center of the boat where must do damage to continue to the water. Hundreds of years ago the ancient mariners used a thing called the “copper chain” which was used to direct the lightning to the side of the ships. You can achieve the same with a copper tube running from the masthead down the outermost shrouds to the gunnel and then overboard via a distribution system of some kind and there are designs for that. The current doesn’t flow through the copper tube so much as travel beside it. The copper tube offers the path of least resistance, and in that the stainless shrouds are a deterrent. My boat, which I believe has been struck in the past has the mast to the deck, then a stainless support post, and directly below that is a huge metal grounding plate.

[@torstentabel1789]

Love the information it is so good. I am really into EV's and that is what got me onto your channel some years ago. Solid state batteries are starting to sound interesting and seem to now be coming into commercial applications. They might be really good for boats, I would guess the cost is something one has to look at. LFP are really the best all around. I was excited to see this video out as I am currently in Olbia. Love the channel, keep doing what you are doing, such and inspiration!!!!

[@MonkPetite]

Thanks for sharing Dan and Kika. It’s most educational.

[@andypughtube]

My job for years was ensurong that cars started in a wide range of environmental conditions. And the real challenge was -30C. (we largely gave up below that as the fuel tends to freeze) But lead-acid does at least still work at -30C.

[@iCuzZ]

It was limit of charging, not discharging, lead-acid is the same, it doesn't take charge very well when it's cold and it does lose capacity when it's cold. Also gasoline doesn't freeze. Up to -40C a new car should start. Diesel(winter mix) will get stiff when over -30c.

[@SailingUma]

If our boat is below freezing in the bilge, it means the ocean around us is below freezing. Which means we have bigger issues.

[@kenmcclow8963]

@@SailingUmabut then you could go out for a walk at least if the hull cracked. I did just see a gps track of a fox that walked from Svalbard to Canada, so if you don’t mind scavenging polar bear kills it’s doable. I recommend staying in warmer waters

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

21:09 EPT also has very cool small azipod-like motors. They call them turnable saildrives.

[@stephanieellis5399]

I know next to zero about batteries but I was most impressed by EPTechnologies, especially the Solid State battery, and then MG.

[@dancampbell8149]

Thanks for saving us a trip there. Great updated info!!! Well done guys, cheers

[@Blueybob]

I was contemplating MG but decided against them because the booklet that comes with them states, astonishingly, that they are not guaranteed. Perhaps the dealers that sell them guarantee them but that would not be good enough for me. That booklet is available on the web.

[@gardenrailroading]

So excited to see the new Solid State tech! We have an R1S SUV and the Electric Tech is exciting. I am loving your rebuild.and cannot wait to see your decision on power company for UMA.

[@FutureSystem738]

Thanks, enjoyed that, Cheers!

[@nilsweitkamp4597]

@dan ..I watched it all ..following for …. It’s the first time I commenting one of your films.. I work in the professional, film industry, and I love how you Work through your interview. It’s so nice of you giving the non-native English speaking, person hints.

[@conradlogan5201]

So much quality information!! The answers are only as good as the questions-and this is great! Thanks

[@SailHub]

It’s been a pleasure for us to film with these guys - super switched on and bang on target!

[@icewolfen6360]

Thanks for another epic video! I have been watching you since the very start and learned a lot along the way. I have been living in a small sailboat the last 3years and do consider electric propulsion when the diesel engine starts to wear down. My biggest issue is the battery selection and I hope the price and performance will improve when the time comes to go electric. The solid state option sounds most tempting but that's probably the most expensive one. GSpower looks like a interesting choice. I look forward to see what you choose. Keep up the good work, fair winds!

[@guiseitz]

Let us know, we are happy to support you from GS-Power. BTW, we are as well an MG and Victron integrator.

[@kathfromearth]

I went with the Victron Energy System from Transwatt! I don't know if they're the best for sailboats. I got them for my self converted tiny home on wheels (it's a Sprinter). Excited to see which system or batteries you guys are going to choose for Uma! ❤🎉😊

[@silentscuba]

Will be on Voyage "Home Again" this Sunday the 3rd for 2 weeks....loved your video's about your stay on her and learned a lot !!! Thank you so much :-)

[@SailingUma]

Have fun!!! She's a sweet boat!

[@harrygreene5571]

Best video on EV tech, period. Well done.

[@l.w.petersen7359]

In many ways EP Technologies looked the best to me for a sailboat. Waterproof casing, size and most likely weight and a "friendly" interface to other systems.

[@ricktaylor14001]

If I had to guess right now which battery you guys go with, I think I’d lean towards EPTechnologies (the 1st one interview here). He made a few statements I think would be off huge interest to Dan & Kika (especially Dan): the BMS is IN the battery which sounds awesome, and the batteries can be turned any way (if I understood, correctly, these batteries don’t have to be installed in facing up?). Another contender, GS power seemed to pique Dans interest: like the stainless steel housing, and (of course) they used Dan’s mounting system (huge kudos to Dan for that). If GS Power have them ready to go when UMA is ready for install…. I’m going to say that’s their choice. 👍🏼

[@KeithCarmichaelInFL]

I am very excited about the "solid state" batteries! I doubt you will choose them, but they have a TON of potential!

[@tyronerobertssr710]

This show was excellent, keep the vibe going, Love you guys.

[@seanobrien7169]

I liked the solid state that you lead off with, but since you guys are all about Ocean Volt...Seemed like a pretty good system. I like how he was realistic about the waterproofing. Like, you cant submerge them but they will be fine...

[@benmccarty4598]

My vote is MG Batteries. Lots of great battery tech information in this video, great job!

[@gkeller9958]

EP technologies table bank of 330 kw should do the trick. You wouldn’t even have to raise the sails. The challenge would be to harvest that kind of energy. The other companies you interviewed seemed to be behind the times for a thirsty motor. 12 & 24v is good for a house bank and to reach your required voltage by running them in series is old technology. You already know that using the Battle Born batteries

[@Sailorsbunk]

I think EPT stole the show, and you guys as always nailed it.

[@biancamoosebaker8547]

Thank you guys!!

[@prereed]

Ocean volt and MG or the Victron system. System integration is key in my mind.

[@ghost307]

I 100% agree with the tex on the thumbnail. "One of these is amazing". 3 guesses which one... 😃

[@jvodan]

The Rack mount or the first one with the solid state. interesting to note atleast one didn't seem to balence the cells

[@netteypatch]

Thanks for a very informative video. As the technology advances (and the prices start to become more accessible), I am very much looking forward to 'the big change' aboard my own vessel

[@Morgan2XL]

Worth keeping what the big marine battery vendors are doing on the radar Corvus Energy - first marine ESS Supplier to enable data-driven State of Health (SOH) test

[@jepomer]

I realize that you are now moving away from Battle Born batteries due to your changing needs. But for others like myself, please note that Battle Born has been advancing their technologies for battery heaters and BMS communication. I am not connected with Battle Born other than being a satisfied customer with projects on several boats (and soon our RV). Their warranty policy is very good - 10 years. I had to use it once. It was a very quick and painless experience. This was much better than with another electric motor/battery company. I truly enjoyed and learned from this video.

[@SailingUma]

Oh for sure. Honestly for a 12v or 24v house loads, we still think they're one of, if not, the best battery out there. And there tech support and customer service is really good. Will ,from DIY Solar Power, does great tear down videos and test of many of the 12V batteries out there, and when he opened up the BBB it was SOLIDLY built.

[@jepomer]

@@SailingUma - Good to have you reassure us about Battle Born Batteries. I was also very curious about the companies that you hade time to interview. Electric propulsion technology has been growing rapidly and can be used in many more situations. You interviewed a good range of companies. It is clear that battery power is being more integrated into "systems" where all the pieces work together. And there are also other venders that continue to produce batteries for non-integrating projects. My wife's new Rav4 Prime, a plug-in hybrid has almost a 50 mile range on just its battery. During her day to day life, her Rav4 rarely needs to switch over to the gas engine. As a note to others, sailing with just battery powered (just 2 BBB for the required 24 volts) outboard on my Capri 22 has made me become a better sailor quicker since I did not turn on the motor at the slightest drop of wind.

[@blt_engineer]

What to do? Higher voltage is going to be lower weight and better performance, but higher costs and harder to service. The RV sector seems to lean lower voltage but has a bigger production volume so cost will be lower and repairability will be better, as long as you are mainland accessible. Depends on how much ownership you want to take on. Adds a whole another level to Yanmar vs Volvo for diesel propulsion. Not a clear answer here as you are still blazing the trail. The engineer in me that has spent time doing battery protection from cell phones to early EV's as well as designing HV stuff for space and particle accelerators can make a solid argument for either. You guys seem way more interested in learning the details so I don't think the HV stuff would be an issue, but if all you want to do is sail and not worry about the underlying tech, then LV would be easier . I am leaning toward a higher voltage system for propulsion and storage, but maintaining an LV system for basic housekeeping for costs. Great video and some great questions. The cold storage seems to be the Achilles heal, but if you use your boat year round then not an issue. I wish I had the decision to make; you guys are living a dream I had, but always put off .

[@johnscarborough8425]

Interesting video. Thank you. I once watched a video where a boat had been hit by lightening in the Caribbean. The BMS in the batteries were fried. But the battery cells seemed to be OK. They happened to have some old batteries on hand, and were able to salvage the BMS from the old battery to replace the fried ones, and get their house appliances back up. Since then I have been very interested in the BMS in batteries and how easily the BMS can be replaced. I noticed some separate BMSs on some of the systems. But no specific questions about lightening strike repair. Is it recommended to carry a spare BMS or even make some contacts with salvage yards and collect some old BMSs that should work as replacements. My vote goes to the easiest battery system to maintain. Solid state may be most dependable but also probably most expensive. You usually get what you pay for.

[@SailingUma]

Lightning is such an unpredictable threat most don’t think about it. You can get hit and be totally fine, or it could blow a hole in your hull and sink you. Even diesel boats need a tow back in when struck as it usually dries the engine electronics. Bottom line in our opinion is, it’s a sailboat, you should be able to sail it without any electronics at all. Everything electrical on a boat is a luxury, including the diesel engine.

[@lyfandeth]

​@@SailingUmaNew turbodiesels and others need electronics. But classic diesels with a mechanical fuel pump? Famously will run until the air intake goes underwater. No electricity needed, even the electrical starter is redundant. Those were rock solid reliable beasts!

[@blueclue57]

I really like the durability and reliability that is advertised by GS, but the ease of use and integration spoken of behind MG is very attractive. One is battery strength, the other software strength. You have a difficult decision to make when choosing your own electrical system.

[@lukecelt9000]

Great episode! I wonder how Victron batteries compare with their spinoff MG’s batteries. We recently repowered our 30-foot Catalina - Thunderstruck 10 kW motor, everything else Victron. Loving it so far!

[@MonkPetite]

They are the same, or better said same guys that made those Victron’s

[@ringostarrgazer2419]

Ford is also diving in the deep end with lfp. Safer, longer lasting/better at higher temps, cheaper, non toxic to dispose of...con would be energy density and weight. I'm sure you guys already know about that though 😊

[@SailingUma]

LFP is really the only good chemistry for boats. NMC is ok too. It all comes down to how it's managed. But we're definitely keeping our eye on solid state tech too. That's almost a "too good to be true" situation.

[@thesteve7397]

@@SailingUma Solid state battery tech is going to be a huge revolution for automotive and marine propulsion. Does it make sense to invest a ton of money in Lithium now, or can you defer your purchase for 18 months and go with a FAR superior solid-state system?

[@BTSflyer]

My needs are so much simpler. I am just powering a trolling motor but I checked out all the reviews and take parts on KZbin. I found Li Tiime LPF batteries and they just came out with group 24 size at 100AH with bluetooth. The do have a smaller format battery in 100AH called the Mini but, I wanted the bluetooth. It was handy to be able to look at an app to see when it was fully charge. The app will be useful in estimating range too. The battery is only 21 lbs.

[@frunikol]

Thank you for saying hello to a big fan of you on the Boat Show 😍😍😍. I was just like a big fangirl afterwards, my husband giggle because I was SOOO on cloud 7😂❤️❤️❤️

[@SailingUma]

HAHA!! It was a pleasure to meet you. Hope you enjoyed the show too. It's a lot!

[@frunikol]

@@SailingUma we loved it 😍, so many new ideas ❤️

[@QWTrucker]

Mg batteries seem like the best choice of batteries everything talks to each other and it’s water proof and geared for sailing

[@SailingUma]

MG isn’t waterproof. And Every battery we showed had its one integrated system. There all solid choices.

[@markbloxham1313]

I would make sure you use LFP and use one that will integrate with your Victron system. Obviously Victron batteries are a choice but also MG which are very good and cheaper. I have a narrowboat with a 600Ah 12V system with a fully integrated Victron system and it is top notch. Mastervolt is also great but more expensive I think.

[@davidryan5052]

Thanks for the overview of the current state of lithium and new generation batteries. Very Appreciated I have been sharing the link to a few people as an in depth intro. Interesting that Lithionics did not get a mention. They keep showing up in various boats and get high marks.

[@aulddug3634]

Excellent video guy's, that's put to rest a lot of my safety fears

[@amunderdog]

Interesting. Hanse’s innovative Rudder Drive system, a Torqeedo electric motor embedded in the boat’s rudder provides propulsion. Not crazy about the fin rudder

[@daved7994]

but orca's are😁

[@ricktaylor14001]

For the most part I heard “blah blah blah blah, solar blah blah blah, batteries, blah blah blah, Dan designed, blah blah blah…..”😂 The people who you interviewed did a fantastic job, especially speaking battery geek in a second language… they did a great job! It made me want to look up some terms that were repeated often (for those who didn’t, BMS is, obviously, “battery management system”). 44:00 Oh sure, now someone defines it! Lol🤪 I did have to rewind and restart a few times because I dozed off (and I used to work in this industry) more than once, but it was a good and informative video! I’m curious which one you end up with!!🤠👍🏼☮️

[@SourBogBubble]

Thanks for the efforts! Neat treat.

[@user-fe8gl2zs7p]

Innopower seems to be the only one that has thought through the situation . . . saltwater, fire, BMS, mounting system. They get my vote.

[@guiseitz]

Thank you, wait there will be more.

[@kikinwilson9743]

Personally I was most impressed with the Solis state batteries

[@wjk9837]

Great segment, Guys 👍👍 and you both did excellent job you can be proud of. 🎖🍁🌴

[@thorstenwanoth6774]

Apart from the batteries that are needed I recommend looking for longer keel length if possible. I have watched your channel for years and its been great to see your adventures on this world over the years with Uma. My take is that "gettting married to the boat" may be a future topic for discussion on your channel. I like me some long keeler steel construction yachts, a cat or two and a simple aircooled motorcycle to cover distance in style. Defenders are pretty rad cool too - had one for a number of years. Trying to say is get another hull to go further, faster - stylishly. K - rant over - gonna watch now...

[@dancarter482]

Aluminium for the win - either selium or Alustar!

[@paulliebenberg3410]

This was good, always wondered about those IP ratings I've got $$$ in power tool batteries ruined by getting a little wet. All of the industry presenters were great.

[@mbseeking6570]

I hand made lithium titanate battery fir my boat. They are less energy dense than others but have a 30k cycle life which is fantastically more than anything else. Probably safest chemistry but none are risk free. Assume your battery will catch fire ferociously: you must be able to escape without having to pass it. The other nice thing about LTO is you can fast charge them at almost any temp. Takes the hassle out of that equation. But they are more expensive. Based on what I learned I would settle LFP for a boat but regular lithium ion is simply too risky for live aboard. (Just my opinion)

[@saulthompson6613]

What about constant pounding, impact, vibration resistance and fire (or disconnect) prevention as one goes for days in rough seas?

[@jerrycooke6511]

I sold Victron batteries and really liked them. Can you recommend any budget EV 48V batteries. I'm doing my 2nd conversion on my sailboats. On my 1st I went with kit which bothered me as I had to rely on the kit provider. This time I'm ala Uma....bought an industrial motor and controller...69 kw continuous for some minutes....Beyond the safeties I think I just have to worry about draw.

[@geertkroon1758]

Hi, I miss Super-B battery’s in your video. The have a lot experience in yachts and commercial boats also a good choice! Good luck

[@guiseitz]

yes, and the Nomada is very compact, the only downside is that each module has only 12,8V. GS-Power went for 51,2V as base to match the E-drive without the need to balance the battery modules.

[@patwhite640]

You might have seen an after show but Yamaha just dropped their hydrogen powered outboards and inboard Motors it looked pretty slick if I had a choice I would go with the dry cell

[@Marinereviews]

I would only choose the batteries I could get delivered almost anywhere on the planet in a short time - from a company with a long life history. So that would most probably be Victron or Mastervolt. The other players are all still small and might not be there tomorrow. Every week there is a new battery company - and an youngling battery company that goes broke. Victron is my preference as Victron systems are "Open" meaning if your main systems are Victron - you have infinite choice of batteries and 3rd party BMS's if needed. Many other systems are now very "closed" or in effect ring-fenced by ownership (Navico) - but that is our opinion. Victron Batteries are also well used in house installations - making world wide availability quite a lot more certain. Again rare to see MasterVolt in "house batteries" MG are probably the best batteries - but distribution and availability is not as good as Victron. Sadly, it seems, none of them offer standard 4D or 8D sized batteries - so every brand battery size is different. So if you need to move to another battery - you will likely have to re-work your battery boxes on board.

[@andreasarncken8309]

I agree that battery build quality and safety features are of utmost importance. So is price for any normal user- and I know by experience, that Mastervolt and the likes are horrendous. You might have a look at Roypow or Epoch trolling batteries as well, and if only for comparison reasons. There are some good quality Ip rated batteries out there, with good and serviceable BMS installed, interconnecting capabilities via common protocols. Many of these are somewhat modified forklift or golfcart batteries, providing service in day to day operations without any problem, a lot carry 5- or more years of warranty as well. How many Amps does Uma's motor pull at peak??? And how big a bank do you consider to install???

[@zeulsisme]

Thank you for this educational presentation regarding Lithium batteries. It is great you asked the right questions as you have experienced ng electrical propulsion systems in all kinds of operating conditions. My #1 choice, based only on what I saw, is MG batteries combined with Oceanvolt Power and Propulsion Systems. Besides this company only EP technologies claimed to have a total system approach. I got the impression that EP Technologies is "The Cadillac" of the presented systems but may be way out of budget. As #2 I would consider the new Innopower batteries but this system has no proven record. Choice #3 Navico but the presentation was not convincing. Vitron Energy - Accusystem seems to be an application for land based systems.

[@guiseitz]

EPT has excellent products, but LFP is the least critical. InnoPower has no prooven record bicause they are new on the market. There will be a video about the test results coming soon, since its in use for over 2 years in a boat from a German Sailing KZbinr 🙂

[@eat333]

what about sodium battery? they are very safe. has a larger temperature range and can be fully discharged next time without being damaged. They are slightly heavier and do not have as flat a curve as lithium. Marius Trondheim

[@mattdabney4109]

Be the first sailing channel with solid state batteries🎉

[@piaottiker9829]

I find Ep technology did the best solid state battery is the way to go and would definitely sah it sounded like a great option .

[@dc1544]

I see the prices of these batteries and WOW. Building a DIY system with all the safety included is 1/3rd the price. LFP right now is the way to go. Next year Sodium LFP battery tech will be everywhere and will be even safer. For those who do not know or want to DIY battery banks then sure buy MG or any other brand who use LFP battery cells in their batteries.

[@nick.caffrey]

Mastervolt made the biggest impression on me. The rep seemed to know what he was talking about.

[@ssolomon999]

For cruising sailboats, having effective re-gen would be game changing. In prior boatshow video you asked but all vendors were pretty dismissive. My impression is the prop is the issue - delivering power and generating power require different specs. Seems solvable, though, maybe adjustable pitch but maybe some sort of dual shaft / dual prop option could work? Have you found anyone working on viable solutions?

[@SailingUma]

Yes. Oceanvolt. Others have a rotating pod solution. But they’re new and yet to be tested.

[@olafschermann1592]

Curious about a full 48V system: 48V refridgerator, washing machine, watermaker, … So no need for inverters to 115/230V or 12V. Seems to be a market niche.

[@timwebb8153]

I gotta tell ya, I think Oceanvolt gets the W. They seem to have thought the big picture through, and they have been doing this a long time.

[@dragondragon4733]

Hi, yes for me it is cost and quality, it is going through a supplier not off the manufacturer and what they where saying was we install them or our supplier installs them. the safety side was, ours are the best and do everything better ?? yes well I expect that ?? good to listen to for a short time yes i enjoyed the episode and thanks for going through it for everyone, will i guess what batteries you are having ?? no i don't have a clue.

[@MichaelrennieG]

I love electric being in electronic engineering 40 years and seeing the progress electric boats and cars which no doubt are the future, motors are low maintenance smaller more power, little noise. Batteries and solar improving every day, Tesla batteries are lasting over 10 years, the fact in the ocean there is a lot of sun nothing blocking sun unless you also have sails, charging batteries have options of fast or slow charging, interesting that slower charging is better for batteries, although when docked you can fast charge at 400v in minutes or level 2 220v in hours or level 1 in a day much longer , I would bet that Tesla will get involved in the future if not already...

[@G11713]

I say Dan has the hots for InnoPower and InnoPower has the hots for him. :)

[@GrahamPearce-ib9om]

Great video. Maybe the mounting system will be key factor?

[@SailingUma]

Yeah, surprisingly only two batteries had a built in mounting system. It blows our minds that everyone just uses a $2 ratchet strap to hold down their $40,000 batteries.

[@haraldhannelius]

Lead acid batteries are fine in freezing temperatures as long as they are charged and disconnected from all consumers. Not sure of LiFePo4, think they like to sit at 50% charge if stored, but how is it with cold really?

[@nodogrunner]

Come on, you guys are buying the battery that incorporated Dan's mounting idea, Innopower! Wouldn't you want a mechanical shut off? Love the idea that it is just a 48V battery with a MOSFET BMS. Lines right up with solar charging. Will you be using bi-facials on the back of UMA?

[@scyz2807]

Very interesting topic. Is it assumed that many of these battery systems will be charged by solar panels? Also, while I know these types of batteries are expensive but I'm on a low budget. I do but tiny rechargeable batteries for flashlights and such and they seem to be clearly worth the extra cost. But if a new good quality automobile sized lead acid battery costs between $150 and $200, what will a similar super high tech battery - like the ones in this Step - cost? Let's say it's a basic 12 volt battery.

[@SailingUma]

You can get LFP for $200/kWh now. They’re basic. But work just fine for our loads.

[@theradioweyr]

As others have said, MasterVolt or MG, but knowing how you use them and watching you sail to such cold places and other events, I still don't think there was a clear winner at this show.

[@SailingUma]

Batteries on a sailboat (if installed below the waterline) don’t need to be heated. The bilge stays the temperature of the ocean.

[@oldshad65]

cool that you got a Media badge!

[@yannistsopelas7217]

Very informative video - thanks guys. I think I know which batteries are going on Uma... 😉

[@JohnnyParker-we4nf]

iP65 is not high pressure wash protection. IP69k is the correct high pressure rating at 100 bar / 1450 psi