Sam Harris and Ben Shapiro Debate Slavery

#benshapiro #atheism #bible

[@posavka]

Exodus 21:16 ESV “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death. Galatians 3:28 ESV There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Colossians 4:1 ESV Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven. Galatians 5:1 ESV For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Deuteronomy 24:7 ESV “If a man is found stealing one of his brothers of the people of Israel, and if he treats him as a slave or sells him, then that thief shall die. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. 🙂

[@generalnawaki]

fact checking is a sacred trust. thank you for showing Harris did not know his bible.

[@bonechillingtales123]

And he’s smart. So it’s almost like he’s speaking for the father of lies to deceive the oblivious souls.

[@generalnawaki]

@@bonechillingtales123 now now, it was God who created evil not the devil.

[@jrskp3677]

How about including what Harris was talking about?

[@bonechillingtales123]

@@generalnawaki God created good. Man created evil in this world.

[@Quinn37]

Sam Harris: you have to "aggressively reinterpret the Bible " Ben Shapiro: don't mind if I do

[@Quinn37]

@@mcnair435 Right, you know a time when it was ok to beat someone.

[@inothing7370]

@@Quinn37 thank you! O but if they are people of the book, then you should treat them favorably. Implying that heathens are less deserving of decency

[@frankvonfrauner]

@@mcnair435 the bible is irrelevant because it doesn't tell me how to behave in my TikTok videos without an aggressive reinterpretation.

[@CentristDad155]

@@mcnair435 I believe Sam's take is if the bible is so old and out of date and cannot be taken literally then, by all means, use it to teach history or literature. Do not allow it to effect our society's laws and our current behaviour gvien we know better, now.

[@tokyobrwn]

Sounds like none of you have actually read or studied the Bible. Sam certainly hasn't but if he has then he's being incredibly disingenuous.

[@myNarrator]

Ben literally proved Sam right.

[@sclm55]

Incorrect.

[@myNarrator]

@@sclm55no. I’m right. Thanks for trying though.

[@nicholasbourcier]

No, he really didn't. Funny you made that retarded assumption after one of two sentences from Ben. This clip is cut down severely. Also, Sam is bat shit insane. That must be why a loser like you supports him.

[@myNarrator]

@@nicholasbourcier I can't imagine someone as erratic as you actually watched the entire interview. Ben will die on the sword of his religion and I assume you'll die on your sword of stupidity.

[@kelvinloeb812]

@@sclm55 What a solid refutation of the facts

[@oddoutdoors]

I love how Ben immediately did exactly what Sam said he would do.

[@theotherview1716]

Therefore, what?

[@oddoutdoors]

@@theotherview1716 you're not very bright, are you?

[@viewer4327]

@@oddoutdoors you’re clearly not very smart because you think context means reinterpretation

[@oddoutdoors]

@Viewer the Bible is said to be the word of God and his instructions, Ben here is reinterpreting the purpose of the Bible from instructive to explanatory. So, yes I do know the difference between context and reinterpretation, apparently you don't know the difference.

[@viewer4327]

@@oddoutdoors you still haven’t proven yourself to know the difference between context and reinterpretation because the Bible is made up of many different types of books. It’s not one literal book.

[@justsomedude69]

It must be tough for shapiro when he isn't bullying or outwording dumb college kids.

[@reyis_here945]

First off screw college kid Secondly arnt secular pro prison

[@anovosedlik]

😂😂😂

[@reyis_here945]

@@anovosedlik I don't know Sam Harris doesn't make himself out to look stupid is by no means an intellectual that he claims to be

[@cradleofrelaxation6473]

😂 I guess you said so because that’s what he’s used to.

[@negan9810]

There friends, why in the fuck would he want to start a heated argument over free will? 99% of the time college students come to attack Ben Shapiro, so it’s 100% fair. Also are you calling college students dumb? College is supposed to be a institution of rational/intellectual students. Your argument is so dumb and not right on any level

[@flowerlandofjohn]

”Until modern times” - and god couldn’t have foreseen or changed that. Pure madness to defend the scriptures in these matters!

[@AntitheistHuman]

Man made scriptures. They want to read literally what sounds good, but metaphorically what is actually wrong, same book, why would you need a book for your morals to depend on if you already know there are bad things in that book

[@faisalsiyad8076]

It’s called the Quran the final testament

[@flowerlandofjohn]

@@faisalsiyad8076 Well, the same of course goes for the Quran. All Abrahamic religions have this intrinsic problem …

[@oddoutdoors]

@Faisal Siyad the point is that if God knew that slavery was immoral then why does he condone it explicitly? The subtext is that revising gods laws means he got it wrong. Which means that either God isn't perfectly moral or isn't real. The Quran is by far the worst dumpster fire of a religious text in history, btw. It took everything wrong with the old and new testaments and turned them up to 1000. That's why Islam is such a vile religion of violence and hatred.

[@reyis_here945]

​​@@flowerlandofjohn and secular ideology still fail when it comes to slavery

[@agb7495]

Ben destroys people with facts and logic until he doesn't lmao

[@cipri198zero]

Really? So you only look to this conversation and think Sam is right? Yes, Ben destroyed his argument. Search for this if not be too lazy: Exodus 21:16 ESV "Whoever steals a man and sells him , and anyone found in possesion of him , shall be put to death" So where exactly is the Bible endorsing slavery, you let me know.

[@billysmith9126]

​@@cipri198zero conveniently enough you used a weak translation on that.... It's more about theft, remove "man" and "him" and replace with "iPhone" and "it"....also it could be translated to "kidnapping" and "victim"...I'm sure you knew that tho and deceitfully choose that . Further proves Sam because of the book that applies to the whole world was made using a different language than most of the entire world could read because at the time nearly the whole earth was illiterate and then the problem of having to translate it to other languages and the the religious establishment openly admitted the Bible has been edited, selected parts, removed, revised, deleted certain parts ECT....last but not least....it has contradictory verses!!!!!!!!!

[@billysmith9126]

Type in "kidnapping 21 16" you don't even have to be super specific and detailed.... searching for it because it's been openly translated to kidnapping and victim. Regardless it's more about theft and having something in your possession that wasn't legally required...and it could be also taking a free man or someone else's slave unlawfully. Sam is correct...your providing proof of this because all you rapid creationist who never actually read the Bible just spread it purposely ignoring the other verses that clearly state how to treat a slave or reinterpret them aggressively just as you did with your weak translation you used.

[@sverkeren]

@@cipri198zero The rest of Exodus 21 for example.

[@fermatslasttheorem6298]

@@cipri198zero “steal a man” - isn’t that talking about stealing a slave from someone else?

[@orvarino]

Did Ben just state that the Bible is unsuitable in a modern context? Fascinating...

[@toadkiller4475]

Yes very plainly but he can’t even see it because of cognitive dissonance and holding an unfalsifiable belief.

[@Greggers1516]

He didn’t say that, he said the point was being made in a time period exclusive context. Where the people at the time could understand the parallels and ideas.

[@reyis_here945]

@@Greggers1516 ideas still utilized by society today

[@nakkadu]

​@@Greggers1516 so it's specifically for people of another time then

[@Greggers1516]

@@nakkadu i guess you could say because the OT is like part 1 and the NT is part 2

[@CityBoiATX]

Shapiro doing his thing completely ignoring what was just told to him

[@reyis_here945]

Slavery in the Bible discussion of pow's and deator not on race and human trafficking

[@CityBoiATX]

@@reyis_here945 🙄 wrong. There’s literally scriptures defining the differences and treatment of Hebrew slaves and none Hebrew slaves. Which can be either trafficked to your own country or if you do choose can be sold to neighboring nations. You’re just desperate to change the facts to cope with your immoral bible beliefs.

[@EliM100]

This was a surprisingly childish argument by Sam Harris

[@SirGala-fh9xg]

How

[@williamw3501]

Why

[@SirGala-fh9xg]

Who

[@MrAdamloring1985]

Where

[@andresr7344]

According to who?

[@KP-sy1wm]

Ben Shapiro’s reply was pathetic.

[@thedoctor.a.s1401]

Sam: the Bible endorses slavery Ben: but so did everyone Sam: surely God should know better, if he is the moral law giver Ben: umm.......

[@mattmay4112]

That’s not at all what Ben said. He said that’s due to the fact that era of time had slavery and that’s why the Bible references slavery.

[@cipri198zero]

Exodus 21:16 ESV "Whoever steals a man and sells him , and anyone found in possesion of him , shall be put to death" So where is the "umm..."? Sam lost that argument.

[@GSDKXV]

@@mattmay4112 “references” shut up with your ignorant euphemisms. It clearly ENDORSES slavery. New Testament, 1 Peter 2:18 “Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.”

[@mattmay4112]

@@GSDKXV Deuteronomy 23:15-16 “if a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand them over to their master. Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose do not oppress them.” Ephesians 6:9 “ and masters treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him” 1 Corinthians 7:21 “were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you, although if you can gain your freedom, do so.” Exodus 21:16 “anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnappers possession” 1 Peter 2:16 “live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil; live as gods slaves.” Remember when you read scriptures there were two different kinds of slaves. There were slaves of involuntary servitude like the Israelites god and Moses saved from Egypt and there were slaves that voluntarily sold themselves to work as a servant which is mainly what the passages reference. And remember this is translated from old Hebrew

[@skindred1888]

@@cipri198zero and yet...you're allowed to buy slaves from the heathens around you ? It's just pointing out that the Bible is a mess of moral contradictions. But that's what happens when several people write their writings...and not the inspired word of God.

[@BryceHomier17]

Asia and the middle east have left the chat

[@BlackDemiseKing]

“Universal”. Ben said it used to be universal, now it is not. Yes Asia and the Middle East have slaves, but not EVERYONE has them. Every place used to have slaves. See the difference?

[@BryceHomier17]

@@BlackDemiseKing of course. Every place used to have slaves. Why does the US seem to be the dead horse for slavery and reparations?

[@BlackDemiseKing]

BetBryce not sure what you mean by “dead horse”

[@BruceLee-pr1md]

A middle-eastern man is not God

[@lostintime8651]

Yeah slavery used to be the number one employer in the world. And then people got other jobs. It was kind of tied to education. Simply put, expand your mind and don't be a slave.

[@gixelz]

"don't own slaves please" *confused in 20AD*

[@stephenstowe9711]

Back then people enslaved everyone, one nation would conquer another, or the poor would be slaves for nobles.

[@strategygaming5830]

I hate how even modern movies still show slavery back then as race slavery but in reality it was class based and anyone who was poor could be a slave. They didn’t care about your race but instead your social class

[@gixelz]

@@stephenstowe9711 yes...so how hard would it be to say hey, don't do that?

[@Donthaveacowbra]

@@stephenstowe9711 which is why the fact people find their morals from the same book is mind blowing. It's not fucking complicated to write don't own people. Apparently it's the word of your deity and they devoted passages to not wearing two fucking fabrics together but left out a bunch. That's because morals comes from today and then the Bible is used to justify

[@Alfred5555]

@@Donthaveacowbra Do onto others as you would have them do onto you -- Jesus Christ

[@bitofwizdomb7266]

Funny how you cut off Harris’s response

[@cosmologium]

it was clearly Shapiro's response that was cut off, he didn't even get to finish his thought.

[@mattmay4112]

I just saw this same video only Ben’s response was cut off

[@tharcisse7103]

Funny how Sam Harris skipped all the parts in The Bible where slavery is clearly opposed. For instance, where God says that if a slave doesn't want to be a slave anymore and leaves, he must be welcomed back as a free man. What did American slave owners do instead? They would cut off the man's limbs if he tried to escape. It took humans 4000 years to catch up remotely to the ethics of The Bible and people like Sam Harris want to pretend the teachings were immoral. If slave owners treated slaves the way that is inscribed in The Bible, slavery would've died out a thousand years before Christ. The problem is humanity, not God.

[@bitofwizdomb7266]

@@tharcisse7103 if god knew any better , instead of wasting the first 4 commands on his jealous ego , he could have simply replaced one of those 4 with “thy shall not own people as property“ . It would have definitely spared A LOT of harm . Of course you’re going to say the Bible didn’t condone slavery . How embarrassing . So your apologists have to use all sorts of mental gymnastics to make it sound like slavery was a good thing 🙄 . God also should have written “do not beat people “ instead of just idolatry nonsense . So whatever. You need to be intellectually honest and read the details , skippy. Use your brains

[@bitofwizdomb7266]

@@tharcisse7103 thy shall not own people as property. Thy shall not rape or engage in sex slavery . Get rid of the first 4 silly commandments. Also No one should be afraid to work on the “sabbath” without getting stoned anymore 🤦🏼‍♂️. Why don’t people take that seriously anymore ? In biblical times they did . What changed ? God tells you not to get a tattoo or not to eat pork or not to mix fabrics but he allows room for slavery . Real nice . Why don’t we have slavery anymore like in Biblical times ? What changed ? Again , imagine that if god had any foresight whatsoever , he would have seen what harm would come of the passages about slaves. The Bible is so damn ambiguous it can be translated hundreds of ways . In fact it is! Do you know how many denominations and different views of Bible scripture there are ? Try 45,000 world wide . And of course yours specifically is the correct one Smh. You are blind . But whatever . Don’t kill anyone in the name of your god , be good , be kind , helpful , empathetic ….and I don’t care what you believe in .

[@evankelley1204]

Ben: “hey everyone has done slavery so it must be ok” yeah I can see how he justifies most if his views

[@nophace8389]

well why do you think they weren’t writing about baseball… cause motherfuckers weren’t playing baseball they were building pyramids and shit w slaves why the fuck would they talk about shit that wasn’t going on

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Not what he saying at all ,what he saying went way over your head.

[@somakills1178]

He's saying the Bible didn't endorse it. It just talked about it. It's like a history book, rather than an inquiry for you to follow.

[@rickwyant]

Slavery was part of ancient life, we of the present age find it abhorrent and wrong. Our ancestors did not. Doesn't make them bad. Your judging the past by the present view.

[@mattygroves21478]

@@rickwyant Oh yeah? You know the mind of a slave more than 2000 years ago do you? Do they see their husbands and fathers slain by a conquerering army and say to themselves, *"well this is absolutely reasonable. Where do I begin my unpaid work and complete infringement of my ability to choose my own way in life?".* Do you even hear yourself, you absolute haemorrhoid?

[@raj-cr4nl]

“Anything is possible through god” and yet he just couldn’t bring himself to ban slavery because “it’s what was happening at the time”.

[@rocklemillion8041]

Someone didn’t listen at all. I found him

[@charlesj.easleyii7642]

Anything He pleases, yes. What makes you think He was trying to stop slavery? 🧐 Verse and chapter, please and thank you.

[@raj-cr4nl]

@@charlesj.easleyii7642 well that says more than I ever could. Thank you!

[@charlesj.easleyii7642]

@@raj-cr4nl That's quite the epiphany.. or stroke you just had 😬 Get well 🙏

[@faithbasedliving9391]

You literally skipped the most relevant and most popular comment on this video that explains what slavery was in biblical times. It literally was nothing like what Americans did. You couldn’t own a person.

[@everythingisntok]

So according to Ben god is not all powerful because he just adapts to what is convenient at the time 😂

[@AntitheistHuman]

That is gonna be fun to tell to indoctrinated religious, thanks

[@vicenteeugenio479]

The bible did not invent slavery it was present in their time.

[@Doctor_Fate5]

God doesn't micro manages his creation

[@stefannikola]

Sam Harris wins this argument.

[@bobross416]

Slavery was universal!?!?! So was murder, lying, stealing etc. And God found those things important to legislate

[@dennisseger6717]

Slavery is still going on today especially in Africa. Why

[@PInk77W1]

Muslims

[@MAZ440]

And middle east

[@aedankennedy8263]

We still murder children in America. Why? Because humans aren’t good it turns out. That’s another reason why maybe having a God is a good thing.

[@CowboyBluffBand]

Because it's no longer universal to human civilization. Meaning not everybody is gonna physically come across slavery this day in age. Meaning infrastructure and labor isn't done almost universally by slaves. Literally everyone back then would have come across slavery everyday. And everything would have been built/done by slaves. That's no longer the case ya feel me? TLDR: Yes it still exists but it's no longer universal to the entirety of human civilization

[@ahmadknani2557]

@@PInk77W1 can you please tell us how Muslim are causing that ?

[@danilonden3782]

I love how Shapiro immediately went on to do exactly what Sam said he would do. I rate this 5 slaves out of 7 religions.

[@ponti5882]

He didn’t. Sam doesn’t know how to interpret the Bible (or any historical literature for that matter) and is reading his own perspective into the text. It’s not that Ben is reinterpreting the Bible to conform with his view. The view is the same in the Bible through all time. The Bible doesn’t weigh in on the morality of slavery. Sam was just flat out wrong. He reimagines the fact that the Bible recognizes that slavery exists and calls it an endorsement which is simply false. It’s a child’s take on Scripture; but I don’t blame him. There are many religious folks that do the same. What the Bible does do is give guidance on how one is to live with said reality. For example, war exists. It’s part of the human experience. But if I give you guidance on navigating war, that isn’t an endorsement of war itself, but prudential action should such an event inevitably occur. Beyond that, the Bible has other explicit teachings that make slavery as an institution logically inconsistent with its message, and this working out of the logos already there is how understanding of the text is developed over time. For some things, it takes us longer to understand than others, but the Bible, the logos, remains unchanged.

[@lowearthsurfer]

@@ponti5882 two long paragraphs of aggressive reinterpretation. God couldn't do what Lincoln/the UN did? Free slaves? Some god you worship.

[@renancolli3700]

@@ponti5882 we have orientation about what to do in case of war because most of the population can do nothing to prevent wars. But you're saying that the God of the universe had no power to stop slavery or come up with a better system for his people and the best it could do is regulate how to buy and sell people to slavery?

[@drrickmarshall1191]

@@ponti5882 The Bible legislates slavery, that's endorsement.

[@bellezavudd]

@@ponti5882 Oh wise one , do tell all the lowly creatures how to interpret the bible properly. Then we will let all the thousands of different denominations whats up.

[@MrRanch-fc2pe]

Sam: 1 Ben: 0

[@justandardprocedure]

Keep clinging to a book from 2000 years ago. That's big brain energy

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

Why does it being 2000 years old make it not valuable somehow.

[@PulchritudinousCognoscenti]

@@pleaseenteraname1103 because genesis is wrong about how the world is created. Why should we believe the rest of it?

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@PulchritudinousCognoscenti this is a terrible argument, so your argument is basically this thing in this completely different book of the Bible is wrong, therefore the entire Bible is wrong.

[@reyis_here945]

@@PulchritudinousCognoscenti whats wrong about it exactly... for your claim to work

[@PulchritudinousCognoscenti]

​@@reyis_here945 Omniscient means all knowing. If god doesn't even know how the world is created, and impart that knowledge using books and his various mediums, why should I believe the rest of the compilation of the books.

[@Cookiemunster779]

His whole argument assumes we even have the same understanding of what slavery is as opposed to actually what the conditions were.

[@AdamHarte]

Wow, you definitely have not read the Bible then. It is very clear. Including what you should pay for different types of slaves

[@filipe.sm31]

Read Exodus 21. It is clear as water

[@mohammedjafferali693]

Today "slavery" is always conflated with racist trans Atlantic slavery

[@filipe.sm31]

@@mohammedjafferali693 that time slavery meant having someone as your property for a period of time. His children also. You could beat the slaves as long as you didn't took his eye or hurt him so bad that he couldn't even walk. It is all on the Bible, crystal clear. Really, please read Exodus 21

[@mohammedjafferali693]

@@filipe.sm31 what did I say? And you put yourself in a spot, what you said doesn't make it sound any bit nice.

[@8Platinum8]

Gods instruction to respecting the position of a parent a boss or a husband has nothing to do with submitting to abuse

[@chelseadanielle23]

Yes 10000%

[@filipe.sm31]

Lol. The Bible is full of misoginy

[@8Platinum8]

@@filipe.sm31 your definition is scewed but to your actual statement its also full of murder war rape beatings slavery (jews being the first) people burning babies polygamy sacrificing but its also the written living answer to The end of all that

[@chelseadanielle23]

@@filipe.sm31 I guess for those who are so consumed of modern/worldly ways, the Bible could be interpreted as misogynistic when in reality this world has strayed so far away from natural order.

[@8Platinum8]

@@filipe.sm31 For the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve - and to give his life as a ransom for many.” Mark 10:45 - CJB Let your attitude toward one another be governed by your being in union with the Messiah Yeshua: Though he was in the form of God, he did not regard equality with God something to be possessed by force. On the contrary, he emptied himself, in that he took the form of a slave by becoming like human beings are. And when he appeared as a human being, he humbled himself still more by becoming obedient even to death - death on a stake as a criminal! Philippians 2:5-8 CJB

[@mitzyeditz8999]

The annoying thing about these kind of debates are we really don’t have all the answers to what happened back then. Why can’t we just admit that to ourselves? History isn’t something that can be solved it’s something we interpret based on evidence .

[@tinycheemsdog7005]

For one, the slavery that is mentioned in the new testament is not chattel slavery which was practiced in the new world, the kind of slavery where the master has total say on the enslaved person's life and freedom. The Catholic Church for instance condemned that form of slavery as being incompatible with respecting human freedom. The slavery of the ancient world was usually more akin to what we would call indentured servitude. And yes Ben is right, parts of the Bible was written for people living in a specific time, so there may not be the same sensitivities toward the issue as now. Even if slavery which was more akin to indentured servitude is mentioned in the Bible and tolerated, it is a moral good that it be abolished, and Christians (I can only speak for them) informed by a biblical worldview ought to oppose it

[@MetalCooking666]

If God is the supreme authority on morality then why would he water down his views on slavery in order to cater to the sensitivities of people at the time the Bible was written?

[@drigondii]

“Until modern times.” Ha that’s cute. No it’s alive and well throughout the world

[@PInk77W1]

Muslim world Not Christian world

[@drigondii]

@@PInk77W1 actually I was talking about China, Ukraine, Mexico, India, and the US… but yes, also most of the Muslim world

[@SirGala-fh9xg]

@@drigondii The US?

[@drigondii]

@@SirGala-fh9xg yeah the United States is one of the largest importers of slavery

[@damienschulga]

It’s is world wide, if you work for a boss your a slave, and if you are a boss your a slave owner. its simplest form, indentured servitude works like this: An employee, (the indenturee), signs an agreement (the indenture) to work without pay for the owner of the indenture for a period of time. Common reasons for agreeing to these terms would have been for transportation to a new location or to pay off debts. Except we receive pay for services, 60mins for $$.

[@areyousur3]

“Love your neighbour as yourself” is a pretty compelling argument against slavery and any action that will cause other people harm

[@ModernCombatZocker]

Thats an oversimplification

[@1georgekitchen]

That commandment was only for the jews, on how to act among themselves. In the following chapter, God commands Moses to murder everyone and their children, who are not of the Jewish faith.

[@areyousur3]

@@ModernCombatZocker it’s 5 words. The meaning is simple

[@DustinKnustin]

Lets ignore all these parts and throw ourselves at the two passages where slavery was mentioned, but not critizised

[@areyousur3]

@First Name nice strawman you got there

[@stevengreene879]

Letting Ben have the final word in this clip is criminal.

[@romanlawing2864]

Its not about morality. Its about Christ.

[@chiefbeef9133]

No it’s not, you don’t even have proof he existed or did any of the things written that he did.

[@joshparsons7631]

"There have been nearly 3000 Gods so far but only yours actually exists.The others are silly made up nonsense. But not yours. Yours is real." -- Ricky Gervais

[@darylstumpf1344]

No there hasn't

[@joshparsons7631]

@@darylstumpf1344 people have worshiped different deities since the beginning of time. There are Gods we no longer know the names of. I mean you realize Greek and Norse mythology had entire pantheons of Gods right? That's hundreds of Gods in 1 religion. But go on, explain Mr. "No there hasn't" 😆

[@darylstumpf1344]

@@joshparsons7631 I know but not 3000. And I'm not talking about India . I could careless what they do.The Bible talks about people worshipping other gods in great detail

[@darylstumpf1344]

@@joshparsons7631 the whole end time story is about people being misled into following a fake diety

[@joshparsons7631]

@@darylstumpf1344 So you can prove that there haven't been over 3000 Gods throughout time? You can't name a lot of those Gods since we didn't keep great records 3000 to 5000 years back, or more. But your positive even with multiple polytheistic religions (the practice of worshiping multiple Gods not just 1) There haven't been 3000? I gaurantee there have been more, plenty more, lost to the centuries. You can say, "I don't care what happens in India" That doesn't mean your God is any more likely to be the 1 true God than what Indians, Iraqis, Iroquois, Africans, ancient Norse or Roman's believed. Your God is only important to you because you were born being taught that he is "the only" and the rest are false. Btw a man wrote that not a God. The crusades happened because of man's need to control, not the orders of God. And anyone these days who claims they have God talking to them gets locked up, just like they should've done to Moses. You should realize that if you'd been born in India you'd most likely believe in Hinduism. In Asia you'd be a Buddhist. Both religions would claim that Christianity is wrong. They're both older than christ. And most of christianities teachings are taken from older religions. Even the symbolism is directly tied to trying to falsify those religions. The Red Guy with horns? He was a Greek God, not a Christian devil. Hades had a Bident or pitchfork and was king of the underworld. "The Great Beast" look up 'Fenrir'. Even the word Hell is borrowed from pagan religions. To reach Valhalla (viking heaven) you had to die on the battlefield. If you did not, you went to Hel where Odins daughter Hela rules. So tell me once again, how are all of those religions wrong, but Christianity got it right? Considering most of christianity was stolen from older religions. The Old Testament is literally the modem Jewish Bible. Jews loved Jesus, they just didn't think he was any more the son of God than any other prophet. But go on keep taking them at their word. "Ours is the only true God" We can't have a believer having his faith shaken or start asking questions. Especially since they didn't even make up their own religion, they stole Judaism, threw on their own spin and some pagan elements, called it "The New Testament" and have been making non taxable billions for centuries. Watch your priests and preachers. They'll twist the Bible's words to fit their own agenda. I just saw a preacher saying we should kill gay folks. God made them gay though, right? Every gay I've ever known claims they were born that way. It's sad to say but these days the satanic church has more honor and ethics than the Christian church. Because of conservatives my GF now has fewer rights than her mom did. Than my gun does. Just saying.

[@Tobiii88]

I love how the video cuts off right when he was going to rebuttal his sentence.

[@Tobiii88]

@Daniel Armenta It is. The bible says to “Slaves, obey your masters” Which is what white people used to commit the atrocities that you did

[@Cyborg_Lenin]

@Daniel Armenta my God, how ignorant can you be? Use Google, there are like 30 verses of that. Here is just one, go do some mental gymnastics to explain this away: "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

[@DoubleDe]

@Daniel Armenta exodus 21. It says u can have slaves

[@emiliosalazar9962]

It's hilarious how modern Juice and Christians have to come up with all sorts of reinterpretations to justify slavery being condoned in the Bible. But all the juice and christians just a couple hundred years ago didn't feel the need for convoluted explanations, they were just fine with slavery and did nothing to prevent or stop it from happening.

[@Doctor_Fate5]

​@@DoubleDelike a family member

[@revo1974]

So according to Shapiro people were able to understand stealing property from others was bad and a sin, but owning others as property is just too difficult a concept to understand? lol

[@krisjohansen9132]

Yes because if the Bible said slavery was a sin and don't do that to your fellow man, NOBODY would have listened. Sure sounds like humans creating religion doesn't it?

[@jeffreysinnema9139]

Add the full context and Shapiro's response. You're skewing the conversation.

[@telkicelstascal8875]

Not to mention his response is nothing but "let's over think this yet again to make it sound better than it currently sounds" if someone says you can own slaves and this is how you do it, then that means you can own slaves as long as you follow the separate rules for Hebrew and "other"

[@flightevolution8132]

@@telkicelstascal8875 Your response isn’t very smart. Ben’s counter was succinct and clear.

[@emiliosalazar9962]

@@flightevolution8132 It's hilarious how modern Juice and Christians have to come up with all sorts of reinterpretations to justify slavery being condoned in the Bible. But all the juice and christians just a couple hundred years ago didn't feel the need for convoluted explanations, they were just fine with slavery and did nothing to prevent or stop it from happening.

[@Spencerwalker21]

@@flightevolution8132 doubtful

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@telkicelstascal8875 again slave what does that mean under Hebrew context.

[@jesuschristlives2724]

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Your master can be your boss at your work.

[@invisabeast9458]

Amen

[@TheMassOverride]

God is indeed the same as he's always been... And that's a myth

[@amac9044]

Are you suggesting what the modern day workforce is comparable to slavery?

[@vilneas6358]

@@amac9044 we just have money as a middle man

[@AlexPBenton]

You aren’t a slave to your boss.

[@nerothoth5339]

As a black dude I’m truly thankful for guys like Ben

[@vanessale7293]

There are modern slaves now. They're called employees.

[@Weserman75]

You're belittleling slavery. Employees can quit, they can take another job, they can decide to get self-employed, they can move wherever they want, etc.

[@JomarSevillejo]

Are you getting that from Andrew Tate? 🤦‍♂️

[@jojox1733]

@@JomarSevillejo he’s getting it from Marx’s theory of surplus labor, which has been proven to be crap.

[@notlisztening9821]

Yeah, but I'm pretty glad my "modern-day slavers" can't legally beat me, as long as I "don't die within 2 or 3 days"

[@jojox1733]

@@notlisztening9821 yeah, the commenter is misguided

[@DanielRodriguez-vd2vy]

Slavery “endorsed” in the Old Testament: -You can enter slavery voluntarily to pay for debts. -Your family members are expected to buy your debt and free you. -After a cycle of years you are set free, if you want to go. Other instances of slavery recorded on the Bible are more akin to the slavery we are used to from history. Forced labor and abuse often under extremely harsh conditions. But this is not endorsed, it’s merely mentioned as things that occurred. In clear contradiction to Jesus’ teachings of “love your neighbor.” But normal to the rest of societies that did not believe or did not care to obey His command. Clearly there is a distinction between the slavery God allowed among the Jews and the “pagan” version of slavery that we are more used too. Thus why he got His people out of Egypt.

[@blastyfish1393]

Thanks for saying this so I didn't have to.

[@AlexPBenton]

That’s one type of slave, there’s also slaves that you can buy from ‘the heathens that surround you’.

[@DanielRodriguez-vd2vy]

@@AlexPBenton also true. But if you believe that Jesus is God and that the word of God is constant and does not contradict itself. Then you must believe that even if God allowed a certain type of slavery in the Old Testament, it’s far different than the slavery we are used too from history.

[@RambleEnglish1231]

Amen

[@AlexPBenton]

@@DanielRodriguez-vd2vy No, if you believe all those things, then you must believe in a paradoxical contradiction. And then, of course, *why believe any of those things?*

[@guitargodthor2]

Psalms 137:9 "Blessed be he whom takes the infants and dashes them upon the rocks." Yes, Ben, it was written in a way we could understand. We understand it very well.

[@gaiuscassius9439]

That is a poor translation. Most texts say “happy is he who takes your (Babylon’s) children and dashes them against the rocks” in the context of the psalm it is foretelling the destruction of Babylon. This is not divine instruction to kill infants but go off I guess with your misunderstanding of very basic biblical themes.

[@guitargodthor2]

@@gaiuscassius9439 actually most do not say that. I looked up the quote from several versions (including king james) and my version is a summation of all of them. This is what it's saying. God commanded the armies to lay waste to cities and that's what he wanted done to the infants. That's the over all meaning. For more context of what I read, one text didnt use dash, some said babies instead of infants, i think one said ground instead of rocks. All said kill them.

[@commonclayofthenewwest6045]

Hey man sweet one sentence out of context to the theme ya jabroni. Goodness, if you're so amped to prove the Bible false, at least study it.

[@guitargodthor2]

@@commonclayofthenewwest6045 it's not out of context. It comes from a verse about destroying a city and killing everyone in it. Maybe _YOU_ should study the bible?

[@commonclayofthenewwest6045]

@@guitargodthor2 so you're judging the judge? If God deems it's unworthy and needed to be destroyed, then maybe He has a point. Ya know.. since he's God! Derp

[@Just4Growers]

Question for Sam Harris: How did Jesus tell people to “serve their Christian masters” when Christianity didn’t exist during his lifetime?

[@CthrillaJ]

Man made gods in their own image

[@garrettmorano3038]

I always love how "intellectuals" who say they've read the Bible, prove they haven't all the time 1 Corinthians 7:21 Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that.

[@LuisGonzalez-rm5vx]

So what's the point there are also instructions in the bible of how to obtain/conduct slaves/servant's. I never was bothered by this because even if God explicitly "endorsed" slavery as some say it wouldn't make a dent. We are in no position to be able to fully understand the mind of God and know God's bigger picture perspective. God can have morally sufficient reasons to endorse slavery if thats the case, and people are still in no position to criticize God.

[@ericchun5576]

@@LuisGonzalez-rm5vx I mean, that's the difference between you and a normal person. You can give your life to a god who endorses slavery. I have morals.

[@colmivers]

What point do you think this passage makes?

[@Jay_in_Japan]

Garrett, I assume that as a true believer you've read that in the original Greek. Right? You know what it says in the original Greek, right?

[@garrettmorano3038]

@@Jay_in_Japan Yeah. The same thing.

[@ethanpadgett6499]

I don’t remember much but I do remember, “Let my people go”

[@dalleme5656]

Yeah, let MY people go, it's not that slavery is bad it's that enslaving MY group, the Israelites specifically, is bad. There's no reason to believe that the old testament God gives a shit about any other group of people being enslaved. Old testament is really just a nationalist manifesto for the ethnic jews.

[@ryanmurphy9654]

“My people” is used very specifically and deliberately by Moses in this context .. He does not mean all slaves he means all of his fellow Jews who are slaves. Exodus 21 describes how the now-freed Israelites are to treat the slaves that they take from foreign tribes

[@inothing7370]

Umm... Yeah... Also don't forget what god did next. You know, genocide.

[@thewayiseeit167]

Let my people go is in response to Jews. In the bible Jews are his people not everyone else. In New Testement Jesus embraces everyone.

[@alrightythen84]

MY people. Not anyone else, nor the slaves we will own for thousands of years after. Just MY people.

[@MrVisionneur]

I don’t think Ben was listening to him

[@Erjoe79]

That's what happens when you take the "in my view" approach without really and truly understanding anything of what you're really supposed know

[@Corndog4382]

I used to really like Sam, I now find he claims authority on far too many thing he clearly doesn’t have a grasp on

[@MrLimitlessME]

you just grew up while he stays on the level

[@AA_JonSnow]

Ben: Its a simplistic reading of the scripture Exodus 21: "These are the laws you are to set before them: 2 "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him. 4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free. 5 "But if the servant declares, `I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free. I really want to know how your “complicated” reading will justify the clear instruction of owning people as property and even tricking them into becoming slaves forever ….

[@Pudekz51790]

You are doing the same thing Sam did. You read a part of the Bible while ignoring the rest of it. Do you know why these laws are put during those times? Do you know that slavery in the Bible and the slavery in past Americans history are vastly different? You reading the Bible too shallow my friend. Continue reading exodus 21:16, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 4:1, Galatians 5:11, Deuteronomy 24:7. Read and analyzed the whole context of the book. Ben was right. What Sam did was like taking a quote and misinterpret or misrepresent it to fit his meaning while ignoring the author’s main intent and the meaning of the passage in accordance to the rest of the book. Shallow.

[@AA_JonSnow]

@@Pudekz51790 you try to complicate a simple issue in order to cover up the crimes in your holy book. It is not a matter of deep or shallow, it is a matter of true or false, does the bible allow slavery? Does the bible endorse slavery? Does the bible say anything about not owning people? Does the bible teach how to trick slaves into infinite service? Yes or No, thats it .. there is no middle ground. Trying to justify this barbarism by context and reasons is just as ugly if not worse, there is NO justification for owning a human being as property and being able to beat them as you like, and calling it indentured servitude is just a cheap equivocation

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

I have not studied Exodus in a long time, it’s not one of the books of the Bible I know the most in fact I know it this in the book of Job I probably know the least, I know much more about Leviticus numbers, but the first is not talking about ownership, again I need to do more research, and what translation are you using, from my understanding of it the verse and the reason it says the Male servants shall go free but not the female servants, it’s first of all you have to take a historical relativism in the consideration, Women back then and actually until very recently in history we’re not seeing is people who could take care of themselves, and I also goes for children as well well children today still are seen as not people who can take care of themselves, so I think that’s also part of the problem, in the Bible and the mosaic law and the laws and restrictions in Israel made it clear that you could not disrespect them, and they were to be well fed.

[@AA_JonSnow]

@@pleaseenteraname1103 I have read the Old Testament books both in Arabic and in English and haven’t found much difference in the general meaning of the verses, the bible, is in fact, very consistent in the subject of slavery and unfortunately it doesn’t have contradictions in this subject as others. I would recommend you not wasting your time “researching” old immoral books, but whatever suits you. However, saying its not ownership, thats just false. The book of leviticus 25:46: “You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life” what is ownership if not owning something forever as property and even passing them on to your children? And funnily enough, the verse before that specifies that you can enslave male and female individuals, and you can even treat them harshly as long as they are not Israelites! If you want to say that we need to look at their society and the circumstances .. well thats moral relativism, which ironically theists usually attack. If owning someone as a slave today and treating them harshly is bad and immoral, that wont change if we go back in time, it would still be bad and immoral in ancient times, and you can say they didn’t know better, but thats the problem, isn’t it? Because these books claim to be the word of God! How did the Almighty instructs such behaviors, why was he so cruel? He should have known better

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@AA_JonSnow well first of all I’m interested what translation are you using because that is very important, and second of all the correct translation is not they will become your property it’s it will become your property, referring to the labor of the people not the people themselves, and second of all are you referring to Leviticus 21 , that versus not saying you can just treat them however you want and that you can just treat them harshly it’s specifically talking about if they disrespect their master how to discipline them, and again this was under the Mosaic law, and again I don’t feel like I can confidently answer your othercomment or this one because it’s been a long time since I’ve addressed the book of exodus really done some serious studying on it, I recommend watching inspiring philosophies videos he’s done on the subject, and Tyler Vela also has a three part series on slavery in the Bible.

[@podawe8051]

You have to understand the historical context. The "slaves" in the bible were not what we think of as slaves in the Americas. They were really more like indentured servants who were attempting to preserve their family's honor by paying off their debts through labor.

[@mrpablomx]

Ahh yes all those dudes who built the Pyramids were just paying debts

[@anovosedlik]

The bible is supposed to be a moral foundation so no, Ben, it didn’t need to include slavery. It should have said slavery is wrong, just like cheating and murder.

[@mikem6176]

There’s a wide gulf between recognizing the existence of something and endorsing it. The Bible does not endorse slavery, but clearly it exists. It does not endorse sin either, but there we are.

[@TheMassOverride]

If God didn't want there to be slavery why did he allow it to go down? He destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah but couldn't stop slavery? Doing nothing to stop slavery is the same as supporting slavery

[@amac9044]

@@TheMassOverride exactly! The apologetics are pathetic! Murder is all over the place but God found it within himself to command "thou shalt not kill". If you give instructions on how to do something that's definotionally endorsing it!

[@BurnBird1]

God gives quite specific instructions as to how to treat your slaves, as well as how much they are worth and where to get them. That's a rather clear endorsement.

[@matthewpetto8942]

@@BurnBird1 those are "Civil Laws" that literally only applied to the Nation of Israel, and was concurrent with the culture of that particular time in antiquity. That is not an "endorsement" that is acknowledgement.

[@BurnBird1]

@@matthewpetto8942 Well, that is the excuse Christians give in order to justify ignoring the barbaric laws in the old testament. Even if those laws only applied to Israel, they are still a clear endorsement of slavery since God instructs the Israelites on how they are supposed to do slavery. How badly you are allowed to beat your slave, for example.

[@joshuaryanrobison7916]

No better contortionist than an apologist.

[@reyis_here945]

Prisons are pro-slavery we have them in secular countries like the US

[@vakho30]

Guys :| Ben said that there was a context in which it was written. Meaning, the old testament laws were for old Jewish people and their world, where slavery was a work contract. The slavery we hear today is nothing compared to the slavery that was at that time.

[@SPACEB0YZER0]

This guy needs to read the whole bible

[@forscience9977]

There's still slavery. So yeah it's still here in modern times

[@dinoeld3800]

That doesn't make it good, not now, not in the past

[@allenjohnson4462]

Shhhh. They don't want us to know. In my book if you are trading your time for currency you are by the definition of the word. A slave. A wage slave if you want to be that bag guy. D type thpethhifically

[@fhslife1544]

😂 LOL… what was the whole story of Moses about then?

[@skindred1888]

I never understand these people. They'll constantly claim that slavery was more about employment than actual slavery... That is wasn't the same slavery we think of today...for whatever reason ha. Yet they'll gobble up a made up story about Moses and slaves... Slaves ...that it seemed wasn't just another job

[@bengreen171]

that was about the chosen people not being slaves. The rest of the pentateuch makes it clear you can enslave others.

[@archmaester6594]

Moses also then demanded that the Jews kill Midianites men, women and children but to keep virgin girls as sex slaves.

[@skindred1888]

@@archmaester6594 was it not the cannanites ?

[@archmaester6594]

@@skindred1888 technically speaking, Midianites are Canaanites... much like the Israelites.

[@danielsutter2152]

Even if the Bible doesn’t actually “condone” slavery, it never condemns it. We did that on our own. Which would suggest that we don’t need it as a basis for our morality

[@lilb.b.6696]

So you’re telling me that an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God couldn’t maybe ya know, tell his people that slavery was wrong..? You can’t justify this one guys, I’m sorry.

[@AntiContradiction]

Shapiro just completely proves him right by reinterpreting. Wh7 Christians can't just admit it's an outdated book is beyond me.

[@flabbergastedTart]

😪 You see... I'm really not supposed to say this but, the book has a a few secrets that only a few find. When you find these secrets that lies within the KJV you literally become a richer happier person. But you'll never be anything close to that if you pick it up and look for yourself. 😁 good luck. God speed.

[@sc657953]

Servitude is the message of the whole Bible and life. All the way from the beginning to the end of the Bible the story is to submit and serve the ones in authority, ultimately God. This is ultimately the way we are called to live. Humble ourselves before others even if they treat us harshly. And how in the authorities to care for you.

[@davidhawley1132]

No, that is Islam. The thread running through the bible is love, in it's proper form in each context.

[@theredoctopus3196]

The holy books are just collections of moral lessons and values. They were written by people from that time. They don't come from god lol

[@Flypotato9]

@@theredoctopus3196 nah it also contain poetry, history, land titles, lists of names, laws and prophesie fufilled

[@theredoctopus3196]

@@Flypotato9 yeah like I said its a product from at the time very intelligent people but nothing that was influenced by a higher power

[@stevenking849]

Murder, theft, and every other sin is universal, the Bible condems them. Why not just add don't enslave to that list? Religious people need to wake up.

[@aiya5777]

because slavery is the truth of the universe

[@leavingsoonduetocensorship3453]

This sounds more like making excuses for the endorsement of slavery than repudiating them...

[@cmhardin37]

Sam had a better argument on every single point discussed.

[@felixofosuafriyie]

Even though Slavery existed and was prevalent in those times, I can't recall any prophet of the old testament, nor apostles and the early church Christians who had and dealt in slavery or their trade. And if the Bible was cool with slavery how come the Abolishinist and those who championed the cause to end it were Christians and knew Biblically that all men irrespective of race or status and wealth are equally made in God's image. It existed largely because wars were normal place and as scripture teaches the rich rule over the poor and hence the strong rule over the weak. That isn't the fault of God or the scriptures. The Bible's teachings however brought all men to the knowledge of the All mighty God to whom we all will give account and hence the need to treat even the weak, poor or slave with kindness and fairness.

[@fbarnea]

Well the fact that abolitionists used the Bible to make their case is irrelevant, considering slave owners used the Bible to make theirs. We're having a stupid conversation about a simple thing some people just refuse to accept because they are in love with their religion. Slavery was not ostracized in the Bible. It was endorsed. But slavery is not moral. It's as simple as that. Your god is fallible, get over it.

[@dinoeld3800]

Abraham had slaves. Funny how God gives specific instructions on what you are allowed/not allowed to eat but doesn't mention once that slavery is immoral. I agree it's not black and white

[@callmeacutekitten8106]

@@dinoeld3800 what quote says so

[@jsmith7348]

Ever hear of the crusades lol ?

[@GodSmack01]

@@callmeacutekitten8106 ephesians 6:5-8 “slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to christ” literally took one google search dude

[@adrienwatson2179]

Shapiro claims whataboutism is terrible when done to him Proceeds to do exactly that

[@SHADOWEDinLIGHT17]

Ben’s argument contradicts itself. According to the Bible, God’s role in human lives is to turn sinners to God, change our olds ways to new. The whole bible is built on changing our ways, and slavery should have been a part of that change just as much as lying, stealing, and killing. But it wasn’t. We as humans today are saying it’s wrong, no higher power had to show us that. That’s what I think Sam is saying.

[@sedmercado24]

Now whenever Sam Harris talks about morality, we’ll always hear Jordan Peterson reminding us that Harris’ views are hopelessly premised upon generations of Judaeo-Christian morality! Lol.

[@GrubKiller436]

I mean, I get Jordan Peterson's point; the fact that everything has a precursor. Obviously we have a long history of how we developed what we think is acceptable and unacceptable. I think there's a time for Sam Harris to be correct and there's a time for Jordan Peterson to be correct. I see some concepts in my mind that can make sense together. I see JP & SH trying to combat each other, sometimes when unnecessary. Only problem I have with JP's claim is that "judeo-christian" seems exclusionary to other possible influences, whether that be from other cultures geographically or from other cultures with respect to time. It doesn't do the trick in giving me a full picture, also it truly does not explain human morality.

[@Jay_in_Japan]

I mean, if you've never listened to Sam Harris, sure

[@mbellizia75]

except its not. it is a clear product of evolution.

[@trevorsole3933]

We evolved as social mammals, that's where our morals come from. The Abrahamists culturally appropriated much of their faiths from previous primitives, morality didn't just appear when they made up the Jesus character.

[@sedmercado24]

@@trevorsole3933 Right. Son there’s nothing objective about Sam Harris’ morality. Whatever the behavioural patterns that result from biological evolution is, THAT is our morality. We may affirm certain things to be wrong today, but that’s just because of evolution. In fact, a very different morality could have arisen.

[@brucemcclelland2069]

You can’t reason with religion so I don’t know why these smart people bother debating them

[@williamw3501]

Cognitive dissonance takes time to unravel.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

What do you mean by religion. Watch the debates between Aron Ra and Michael Jones and I want you to tell me Who came out looking better at the end, and also watch the debate he had with Taylor Vela.

[@roostermcscratch9060]

So god can tell people not to eat shellfish or wear mixed linens, but he’s too weak to say “don’t own people as property”? What a joke

[@AlphaQ922]

Jesus didn’t tell his followers to serve their masters.. Paul did.

[@silvere36]

He does not have a good understanding of the bible. He's reading it superficially. Ben is absolutely right.

[@wizolufa1452]

Actually YOU don’t have a good understanding of the Bible. You’re reading into it what you want to believe, not what it actually says. The Bible is pretty clear on the fact that slavery is A ok. God even gives instructions on how to own a slave for life. Not to mention the fact that it’s also in the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not covet your neighbors slaves

[@danilonden3782]

Well, you are doing exactly what sam said people will do. Reinterpret, cherry pick etc. The bible is very clear on this. But when it doesn't suit you, you say it wasn't meant that way, or it's just a misunderstanding etc etc etc

[@blue-phoenix115]

You can’t seriously think everything in the Bible is real.

[@joshuathomas5279]

@@danilonden3782 maybe you need to understand what a slave was in Biblical times. People willingly sold themselves to people because of how poor they were.

[@danilonden3782]

@@joshuathomas5279 maybe you should read the Bible. It's very clear on slaves and that you can sell them, for how much, that you can beat them etc. The bible is extremely clear. And slavery is the ownership of another person and morly wrong. The fact you need to come up with ridiculous statements like "these slaves where like volunteers" shows you didn't really read the passage or doing exactly what sam says you wil do.

[@Lori-xt2lf]

I’d say he’s deliberately obtuse, but I know he’s being. Serious.

[@fatheranthony4pope]

Agreed. Ben is deliberately obtuse.

[@matthewpetto8942]

@@fatheranthony4pope lmao, Ben is not the 1 being obtuse here. You played yourself

[@MarkHoppusy]

@@matthewpetto8942 lmao, so pretending that slavery is okay in any context is not being obtuse? You moron.

[@bossross2.08]

@@matthewpetto8942 wrong

[@matthewpetto8942]

@@bossross2.08 You're entitled to your opinion, even if it's completely unsubstantiated.

[@Pantheist2602]

Sam : Bible endorses slavery. Also Sam : You're not free to make choices.

[@andrew1958]

Aside for slaves captured in war. A slave is more considered a "servant". Is more similar to modern day employment. But a slave didn't had to pay bills, provide food, and pay rent.

[@isovino]

According to Harris: we advanced as humanity, so we must get rid of that which helped us advance

[@jamesa2482]

Help us advance 😂 more like held us back. How much time has been waisted praying to an imaginary sky god. How many killings of innocent people are because of religion…

[@ethanblanchard4390]

@@jamesa2482 great straw man

[@jamesa2482]

@@ethanblanchard4390 how is that a strawman. You literally just stated that religion helped us advance. Which I’ve just said, it did NOT. So how did I create a strawman? I’m responding directly to your comment. Do you even know what a strawman is? A strawman is where you respond to something that is NOT what the person said. In other words, taking what they have said the complete wrong way. But you have just stated ‘that which helped us advance’ and since the topic is about religion here, you are inferring religion here in this context. So how am I taking your argument the wrong way? Fool.

[@thecurious926]

By that argument the Romans shouldn't have taken up Christianity.

[@BMTroubleU]

A rocket needs to jettison it's empty fuel tanks and spent engines so that it can continue successfully and unimpeded

[@macchunky4330]

Love how the comment section is so divided

[@lingy74]

Religion divides lol

[@calebmccasland905]

@@lingy74 No, differing beliefs divide. Atheist divide just as much as religious people do. All claim their unique belief is what best explains reality. Atheists believe atheism better explains reality than Christianity and Christians believe Christianity better explains reality than atheism.

[@feizo]

@@calebmccasland905 Wrong. Atheism doesn't offer beliefs. Atheism or being an atheist is the single issue of not believing a deity(deities). That's it, full stop. It doesn't make any positive claims. Do you believe unicorns exist?

[@calebmccasland905]

@@feizo I’m not sure you understood what I meant. Ive never had an atheist or a Christian or anyone every disagree with me that holding a unique worldview divides. And if you are disagreeing with me because you think atheism is closer to the truth than Christianity, then you are proving my point. An atheist who does not believe in God is different from a Christian who does believe in God. Their worldview’s are unique and therefore creates division from anyone who holds a different worldview.

[@feizo]

@@calebmccasland905 I don't think you understood what I meant. Just because other people didn't disagree with you, doesn't make it right - - - argument of popularity is a fallacy itself. Atheism isn't a world view. It doesn't make any claims, it's not a belief system nor a religion. If you don't believe in a god(gods), you are an atheist. That's why it can't be divisive - - - it's like saying "not collecting stamps" is a hobby. Other than that, I have no problem with what you said. Religion, especially organized religions are indeed divisive.

[@markopetrik]

There's literally an entire book in the Bible based on the idea that slavery sucks. It's called Exodus.

[@emiliosalazar9962]

Leviticus 25:44-46 New International Version 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

[@nabil5535]

The same people applauding Sam Harris when he said Islam is the motherload of bad ideas are calling him childish. Bunch of hypocrites.

[@elduderinoakahisdudeness]

That's what happens when you cherry pick, did he read the same books or the cliff's notes.

[@1georgekitchen]

1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men. A perfect, loving God, murders 50,000 men for... opening the Ark.

[@moeezawan2329]

You are just saying the same thing Muslims say

[@brandondriver99]

@@1georgekitchen because they disobeyed. You and I deserve every possible smite the Lord could condemn us to because we sinned willingly. Who are you to call him unjust?

[@llawliet5767]

⁠@@brandondriver99 ‘who are you to call him injust’ lol most religious response there is… blindly basing your morality upon a character in a book and holding it as the supreme standard instead of thinking by yourself. It’s not surprising to come to the conclusion that God is perfect if you assume that everything he does is good as your premise (and dismissing any immoral act), it’s called circular reasoning and it doesn’t make your point true. God can literally do whatever he wants no matter how bad and you will say “he’s perfect after all therefore what he does must be good, who are you to judge him” and then Christians proceed to call atheists moral relativists…

[@jasonnabors1330]

Slavery in ancient days can be correlated to being employed in todays time 😅. It’s just not nearly as cruel

[@johnmario3795]

As a Christian from India I would be proud to state that bible Elevates the state of mankind. The main theme in biblical stories is that "Proud is humbled and the weak is exalted ". One who humble himself to serve others is the real master according to Lord Jesus. I recommend reading book of Philemon. Paul urges the onesimus,(master of Philemon) to accept Philemon as brother. And urges that any money stolen by Philemon to be added to Paul's account.

[@geralhammonds9272]

Without the Bible there is no Western Civilization, that's as real as real gets

[@nisanight2247]

I just discovered I like Sam Harris.

[@cipri198zero]

Exodus 21:16 ESV "Whoever steals a man and sells him , and anyone found in possesion of him , shall be put to death"

[@reyis_here945]

​@@cipri198zero right but he still doesn't have a secular alternative for slavery

[@Jaymus71490]

In Philemon Paul encourages him to consider Onesimus (Philemon’s slave) as an equal

[@AntiContradiction]

Yes, to consider him an equal in the eyes of God. But on earth the Bible says for slaves to serve their role.

[@johneli495]

Nonsensical statement. If you are an equal then you cannot be a slave

[@Gorpisnorb]

Ah yes, much like santa clause beating up the tooth fairy

[@donnale3881]

Sam’s right

[@gokugrdfghdfrhgd]

The bible is outdated and immoral, he just confirm it himself with that reply lol

[@MrNimbus420]

As Ben said, not really outdated, religious people still believe and practice slavery (let's not forget he is one of them btw)

[@donperera5806]

You can’t make a case for a written document that champions a new outlook on ethics and morals, and say that a particular objectively unethical practice such as slavery is understandable simply because it’s a product of a time. The whole point is that the bible is not meant to be just a simple snapshot of a moment in history, but a guide towards a better way of treating others and looking at the world. It makes some great points about treating others as you would yourself, but conversely and in this particular matter, it is fair to say that it failed in elevating itself above the times’ ways of thinking towards slavery. Hence, how can it be considered anything but an incomplete waypoint towards a fuller and more complete moral code?

[@napptus]

Well said

[@UnholyFatherGothJesus]

Funny how when you question their religion they quote very specific books, but guess its hard to quote the same book when your religion has 20 of them and they're all constantly being rewritten or revised

[@reyis_here945]

Where is there evidence to support that they're being Rewritten or revised

[@Thiscannotbetruebutitis]

Sam, you are my moral repository. You endorsing genocide is helping me to live less burdened.

[@zackerythomas3675]

Yeah, Sam 👍

[@juanon755]

“I saw the word slavery in the bible so now I’m against it” - most people who don’t study their bibles

[@moe5177]

*Leviticus 25: 44 - 46* As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly. *Ephesians 6:5* Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ *Exodus 21:2-6 (Bible’s guide to how to trick you indentured servant into becoming a slave!)* When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever *Exodus 21:20 (a semi decent verse? I’m utterly shocked!)* “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged *Exodus 21:21 (damn, I was really hoping there…)* But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money There’s sooooo much more the Bible says about slavery. It’s a horribly immoral that makes me question why grown adults are defending it. *Here’s a link to more verses that talks about slavery; **www.openbible.info/topics/beating_a_slave*

[@juanon755]

@@moe5177 Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Colossians 4:1 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. God didn’t corrupt the term slave. We did. God doesn’t use slavery to be whipped and be treated like animals. Bible has many instances where servants are treated with the upmost respect. And obviously theres a bunch where it mentions them being treated unfairly. It happened but just because it did doesn’t make it okay. God is against it as much as you are

[@xsuploader]

@@juanon755 this isn't an argument against slavery. Just says that slaves are equal to masters in the vision of Christ Unless you think that Greeks also don't exist lmao

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@moe5177 oh boy where to even begin first of all the source you use is absolutely God awful and is not a reliable source by any means, it’s cherry picks a bunch of packages have the Bible but doesn’t give you the entire verse, Second of all exodus 21 does not say you can beat your slave, it’s specifically talking about disciplining your servant, exodus 21 is about how to trick your indentured servant into becoming a slave, I can’t take you seriously, oh my gosh, it would take me about 3 hours to respond to your comment, so I’m just gonna call it a day.

[@pleaseenteraname1103]

@@juanon755 dude don’t waste your time with this fool.

[@rickwyant]

Sam is reading the bible and judging by presentism

[@user-hh1je5pn3v]

“Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession." Exodus 21:16

[@garycoachclinton]

Ohh nice I will go watch this now 😁 Ben vs Sam

[@LoganLS0]

The slavery in the Bible was very short term debt bondage, always less than 7 years. Which makes a ton of sense in an ancient pre capitalist subsistence agriculture economy. Also slaves in Israel still had legal rights, they weren't dehumanized chattel. They just had their labor temporarily owned by the person they owed money too. This was closer to child support than the American South.

[@tzarak6257]

You're kidding, right?

[@LoganLS0]

@@tzarak6257 no.

[@williamw3501]

@@LoganLS0 if you were wrong would you want to know? Your conflating indenterd servitude and slavery. The Bible makes a clear distinction.

[@davidhawley1132]

For Israelites. Forced labor was demanded of foreign people absorbed into Israel.

[@AliRaza-yf7bp]

@@LoganLS0 You clearly have no clue what you’re talking about lol

[@keithbonnell4660]

Slavery is not endorsed in the bible, many people did not have the same currency as other civs therefore to have a family sibling or oneself to serve another willingly to pay a debt is not slavery.

[@BFizzi719]

It says right it leviticus that you could buy slaves from neighboring nations and they would be your property for life.

[@MrSheckstr]

Same people that claim that the Bible Endorses slavery also claim that the Bible tells us we cannot kill in self defense, pray in public, or punish any criminal offense because we ourselves are not without sin