Sam Warburton Red Card, interviews, pundits view, and other incidents.

[@jboi903]

Seeing this in the context of the laws now it seems very dated. I can't see that not being a straight red these days

[@danadezza]

Remember being gutted at the time, taking everything into account it wasn’t a red then and definitely wouldn’t be a red now

[@calimero242]

Nowadays this would clearly be a RED. That may have come as surprised at the time - new rules were implemented.. Fair play to the ref that took the decision without TV replay. applying the new directive.

[@Stevenbfg]

@@danadezza It was a red then and a red now. World Rugby made the rules of tip tackles clear to the refs before the tournament and emphasized them even more during the knockouts when they weren't being followed. They also fully backed Rollands decision after. They didn't do the same for Joubert against Scotland in 2015 because unlike Rolland, he was actually wrong.

[@zisssssou]

The level of salt, biased judgement and wrong interpretation of WR laws in this video and comments below pretty summed up that rugby is just a closed club between English-speaking medias, players, pundits and fans. It was a hard decision to make but a perfect and correct call regarding the rules. If the situation would be reversed with Harinordoquy tip-tackling Shane Williams, there would be not even a shadow of polemic.

[@flokunlin875]

"It's a great tackle" "It's one of these things" "Unfortunately, hm, his legs go over his shoulders, hm..." This damned british itv pundits should learn to be objective and responsible rather to act like complete ridicule fans. And, 4 years later, i have this disgusting feeling these biased idiots would have justified Rolland decision if a french player had make this tip-tackle. WE all know it!

[@muninnart1234]

+dan may objectivity much?

[@andrew097]

The more you look at it the redder it gets

[@msilve8389]

Can’t drop a player. Can’t lift a player horizontal with putting them down on side/back. He landed on his head! It was hard 🚁 red all day.

[@michaelmuldowney8]

Sam showed his true world class some weeks later when he stated openly that on reflection he felt that the referee had indeed made a correct decision. He used the incident as a guide for him to improve his technique in the future. Sam is the man

[@galinor7]

+Michael Muldowney Sam was being nice. Roland is an imbecile.

[@MrRosshan]

www.rugby.com.au/news/2016/02/10/irb-issues-statement-on-tip-or-spear-tackle the laws were clear. Rolland just applied them.

[@msilve8389]

Player lands on his head, you can’t tackle dangerously. I was In Wales on the (neutral) knew it was going to be red. Also earlier on in year IRB changed laws on tackles where you lift them up, sorry but it’s for safety.

[@deanacer7736]

SAM WARBURTON IS A LEGEND!!

[@Jipao90]

The thing that you seems to forgot guys is that Alain Rolland gave many red card to player for this kind of action, last time before this match was against Toulouse (club of Vincent Clerc the victim of Warburton's tackle), where Toulouse player received a red card for this kind of action. So before the card, all the french player, staring at the ref like "Men you put so many red card against french player for these tackles so you know what you have to do". And for critics from François Pienaar, the dope products seems to affect its memories by forgetting its world cup against France in 1995. To conclude ref's mistake is actually before this match, where english-speaking ref gives many help against french team (club or national team) as the final of this world cup.

[@Jipao90]

***** For the ref consistency, according to the hcup match Wasps- Toulouse where A. Rolland was ref, he punished the victim of Warburton's tackle for the same action. Wales knew the intolerance of M. Rolland about this type of tackle. But what is making me angry against this declaration of Pienaar (a guys who gave "rugby lessons" and forgot his match against France at his world cup in 1995), is that before this world cup french people were more penalized. Look at the punishment for David Attoub: 2 years for a fork(after all, why not, it is dangerous) and for a british against a scottish only 6 weeks and it is just an example. And you want to talk about consistency of referee during this period and other punishments that were lighter than this? Warburton pay cash all inconsistencies of A. Rolland's decision and all ref that had judged french club and national team. I am not for or against strong or light punishment but do for everyone not because you're a froggies or a english native speaker, but because it is highly dangerous (look at the injuries that the tackle in question has occurred to other player). And then here it comes the final of this world cup. If you remember, All black were supposed to smash the french, and the ref M. Joubert, who are able to apologize something that seems to be a mistake but not to the Crusaders (Super Rugby final 2014) but not for a volunteered injured against Morgan Parra (Your second question is so lovely), thought in that way. Then all english speaking country rugby fan and authority found that was "normal" that french deserved many decision against them (McCaw dreamt so much of that). Result, French were robbed (when I say robbed it is nothing compare to Wales) and for new rugby fan which had increased a lot due to the disappointment of French football team in Knysna, they have no respect for all ref, same as new president of french league, current president and trainers who had a big respect of the ref before, they don't have anymore. Now French team who are currently weak, with trainers lost between, selfish club's president, federation and league's president incompetent (look at the Top 14 calendar and the 30 "protected" player, you will laugh) are now helped by the ref and it is shameful.

[@donnakabab1]

When I was having rugby lessons MANY moons ago, these tackles were heavily influenced as being the pinnacle of rugby tackles

[@michaelhennessy2704]

What's hilarious about this video, they pick out three tackles to compare it to that all got yellow cards on the day to make they point that they feel it should have been a yellow card. However, for all of those other tackles, the player was suspended subsequently. A player is only suspended in rugby for a red card offense, so in each of those cases the citing commissioner and the disciplinary committee's have basically said those should all have been given Red Cards at the time they were made.

[@falcons1988]

I think a red card was the correct decision, whether it is a world cup semi-final or not, a dangerous tackle is a dangerous tackle. Sam Warburton, up-ended the player, lost control and the player landed on the back his neck.

[@long-shotlouie]

You are wrong

[@falcons1988]

William Morris Why am I wrong, give a counter-argument rather than just contradicting me?

[@long-shotlouie]

Warburton did not lose control and Clerc did not land on his neck, he landed quite safely on his back.

[@chrisulster3578]

He tipped the player def red

[@HenryBTBrownbear]

James Haskel No, tipping the player is a yellow, driving their neck or head toward the ground is a red...

[@kevinmcmahon7336]

The reaction of the heavily biased pundits and commentators is baffling. What difference does it make if it’s a semi final or now? Clerc could have had a severe cervical spine injury as a results of the impact. Would love to hear the commentators and pundits reassess things now.

[@EdgarRossetti]

almost broke his neck, red card WAS justified

[@fazer990]

I was fuming at the time, being a Welsh fan, and I genuinely was of the belief that it was worthy of a yellow card, not a red. However now I think the red card was justified. Clerc was lifted above horizontal and landed on his neck [almost on his head], and the law says that if that happens then it's punished by a red. Harsh maybe, but that's the law and we have to actually commend Rolland a little bit for sticking to it and not being overwhelmed by the occasion. Semi-final or not, a red is a red.

[@Jason-me1bs]

DavidRM18 The problem is that there was massive inconsistency with the ruling and there were far worse tackles that got yellows. A red card was harsh.

[@gavthe16]

this makes me pissed off all over again

[@kevinmcmahon7336]

About what? A deserved red card?!

[@gavthe16]

@@kevinmcmahon7336 a lot has changed in 7 years mate….like the rules for example

[@kevinmcmahon7336]

It was a red card then by the rules of the game, and definitely one now. Cut the salt!

[@ed2000888]

regardless of anyones opinion on this decision. He was a shit ref

[@Raichu234]

A red spear is when you drive a players head into the floor. That wasn't done. It was yellow at best but he didn't drive him to the floor and released him. Rolland is shit anyway. He ruins games consistantly! Listen to the pundits people! The o driscoll tackle in 2005 shouldve been straight red but nothing was done and yet this was a straight red. Seriously :P

[@jessran70]

Mate Warbs stuffed his hand in his face when he was on the deck. The tackle was tip and drop. Rule clearly states tackler has responsibility once Legs go above vertical. It isn't ambiguous. It is clear as day and Warbs fucked up. Whine all you want.

[@benthorn6331]

@Tom Essex you replied a year ago, the rules were different 7 years ago, it's not a red card.

[@boomxhaka-saka7711]

I like how a common argument is that because it's a World Cup semi-final it's somehow justifiable to be more lenient. Personally I think the opposite. Regardless of what match it is, accidental (which I'm sure it was) or not, by the letter of the law it's a red card offence. If anything you should be more rigid with these types of situations in a tournament knockout match. That way there's no subversive decisions and everything is a lot more consistent. Hopefully Wales can go one better and at least get to the final this year.

[@jamesmason7278]

U my friend are very wrong

[@gregkelly7928]

No question a red card. It is easy for referees in this case. You have a few criteria. Did he bring him through the horizontal? Did he bring him down? Did the tackled player's shoulder/neck or head hit first? If you meet those criteria which this does then it is a straight red. Those who know the game will know that A) Warburton knew he was gone straight away after the tackle B) The WRU never complained or appealed to the IRB as all teams were warned before the RWC that this kind of tackle would result in a red card AND C) The lads in the studio here have been lampooned as morons since and any of their analytical input is now automatically held in low esteem.

[@charliep6301]

I suppose looking at the rules it's a red card, but then when you watch the replay of the tackle it just doesn't look like a red card tackle, but anyway, I'm pretty comfortable up here on this fence. But to say that two World Cup winners and Martyn Williams' input is now held in low esteem is wrong, they were all world class players who most definitely know what they're talking about.

[@gregkelly7928]

Ref has only one viewing and no TMO back then. He see's a player up through the horizontal and then dropped on his upper back. That's red and this sort of thing was being cracked down on specifically at this world cup. Pienaar is an IRB ambassador and was held over the coals by them for the bile he spewed here. Dallagiho is not taken seriously for his analysis and this showing hurt is credibility. Martyn Williams later said he regretted his comments after the WRU made him do so!

[@charliep6301]

Yeah actually where he's standing with just one viewing he's seen a player picked up taken over the horizontal and dropped and land on his head, so yeah I do agree with you. If you take someone up into the air then it's your responsibility to bring them down safely and he didn't at all. Hmmm yeah I see where you're coming from and why they're not taken as seriously, but I still hold their input highly, especially when compared to people like Stuart Barnes or Brian bloody Moore.

[@leofortuneeast]

Clearly u didn't watch the whole video then where worse tackles were made during the tournament which didn't result in a red. The red spoiled the game, a game which we are trying to sell to the world outside mainly the commonwealth countries. I have no doubt wales would have gone on to win the game if it were not for such a poor decision. As it stands wales lost by a very narrow margin and it is credit to them.

[@charliep6301]

That's where you're wrong sir, I watched the whole video around 4 or 5 times. I'm not entirely sure the point of saying it ruined the match? So in say the final if a French player had spear tackled a New Zealand player and seriously injured him, should he not have got sent off because it would have ruined the game? If it's a red card offence the magnitude of the occasion shouldn't affect the decision, it's still a red card. I do agree Wales were very very good in that match, and would have been in the final had Sam Warburton not committed a red card offence.

[@rug568]

@philchen63 : 'In 2007, the IRB Council approved a Laws Designated Members Ruling which essentially made it clear that tackles involving a player being lifted off the ground and tipped horizontally and were then either forced or dropped to the ground are illegal and constitute dangerous play. At a subsequent IRB High Performance Referee Seminar at Lensbury referees were advised that for these types of tackles they were to start at red card as a sanction and work backwards.'

[@samuelscarisbrick6189]

As a Welshman I have to admit this was a straight Red, I even admitted it at the time, anyone who disputes so is biased or plain stupid. However, there have been comments on here regarding Sam's good discipline and player conduct record, whilst this should not have any influence on the sport (Like I didn't at the tine) its disgusting to see this being used as an excuse to shorten bans on players from the more prominent teams in this years Rugby World Cup, the citing system ands bans, along with the officiating itself in this tournament has been a joke, unlike the 2011 world cup!

[@RonaldHapchwarae]

I'm also Welsh but disagree on red, a players history should add to it both in that game and in all prior games. For example if you have a prominent eye gauger and he gauges someone's eye and he 'accidentally' scrapes his hand across a players eyes he should be dealt with differently to someone who has a clean sheet of dirty play. What Sam did is definitely a penalty and a yellow, a red should be saved for spearing and other malicious play not a heavy guy tackling a light guy. If this is a red then every charge and dive tackle by Courtney for England is a red because he always takes players of their feet.

[@samuelscarisbrick6189]

+Ronald Hapchwarae Nope, it's a red because he dropped him, didn't put him down safely, Sam accepted the punishment, end of discussion

[@RonaldHapchwarae]

Yeah Sam accepted it, I've accepted calls by refs I disagree with that doesn't mean it was right. In my opinion it should be a yellow and in slow motion it does look red, but that is what slow motion does. I would also hold this standard for any player in any game for any team.

[@bradleyscannell8943]

Samuel Scarisbrick how is dropping a player a straight red you must be mad, he landed on the top half of his back

[@tnsandland22]

Great decision. The law is there for a reason.

[@ch18nzl]

NZ hates Wayne Barnes. Australia and South Africa hates Bryce Lawrence (who has actually quitted). Wales hates Allain Rolland. France hates Craig Joubert. What is going to happen to referees before the 2015 Rugby World Cup Starts, because more screwups from referees will still continue.

[@Salesharks07]

I'm a referee myself and we've all been specifically told by the RFU that in the cases of dangerous tackles where the player has been dropped and/or driven head first into the ground to "Start at Red, and work backwards", and there's little or no room to use discretion in this case unfortunately. Personally I don't agree with it but Alan Rolland was told exactly the same before the World Cup began, so to be fair to him he didn't really have much choice, he would've been bollocked by the RFU.

[@fazer990]

If we think about this from Rolland's perspective, he saw that tackle in real time speed. He saw no replays, so he couldn't tell if Warburton let go of him, or intentionally drove him into the ground. We should have some sort of sympathy for him, with all the flack he's got. Looking at replays, it was the wrong decision, and I think a yellow card would have been sufficient punishment, given that the ref cannot see replays. In real time that tackle does look bad, so I can understand why a red was given, I just don't agree with it. Clerc did seem to milk it a bit too, writhing around on the floor in agony like a footballer.

[@Spyker1993]

he had just as much access to the replays as everyone else, could have waited and then made his decision. Ruined the world cup as a whole. Wales lost by one, with a man down, and look how close France came to winning in the end. Wales could have beaten them on the day. Not saying its the wrong outcome of the world cup because NZ would still have been favourite to win it, but still ruined the semi-final and the final for me. (obviously)

[@44bottles]

Past vertical is meant to be a red every time. There are worse tackles that didn't get penalised but that is due to inconsistency in refereeing

[@Bigthingreg]

@muppetman666 Nah, they called it yellow. They thought he'd been binned as well and when they saw it was red they were kinda mortified as they knew it wrecked the match.

[@iDefenceee]

Tackle was a red, the question over it was the lack of consistency from the referees. There were far worse tackles than this in the group stages of the world cup that went without a card, or only a yellow. The issue was the IRB told referees to clamp down on tip tackles half way through the world cup, which is ridiculous as the same consistency should be kept throughout the full competition.

[@vinniechan]

@MajorMellons I think the objective assessment would be Warburton flipped a player, and let go of him and the tackled player almost landed on his neck. A flip tackle compounded by another offence.

[@paulcasey4282]

It feels as though the commentary doesn’t match up with what’s going on the pitch because it’s a stonewall red card. He picked him up and dumped him on his head. As for saying the referee killed the game, Sam Warburton killed the game by doing that incredibly dangerous tackle.

[@Red-Revolution708]

Look I would definitely agree with the red card decision now, although my only discrepancy is with the red card decision at that time is there was no ‘Consistency’ shown throughout the whole tournaments campaign . It was then utterly and extremely unfair at the time in a semi final of a ‘World Cup’ to actually start using the rules of the game , they should have started using red cards in the group stages to show consistency starlight away , to show the players to be aware of there tackling . I genuinely believe that the way the Welsh were playing at that tournament , that they would have most definitely gone on to win the whole tournament easily .

[@Driver2616]

What a brave decision by the referee. It's obviously a clear red card offence. Yes it was early days back then when this type of tackle was being targeted by the rugby authorities. Players, coaches and pundits just hadn't gotten used to it. However, the referees had been given their instructions on what to do and Alain Rolland showed courage to stick to the strict punishments for breaches of the law surrounding onfield safety protocols. The fact that it was a WC Semi Final is irrelevant. Nowadays, nobody would bat an eyelid at a red card being issued for this.

[@redjellydonut]

If Warburton had held on to him and tried to soften the blow of what was obviously a dangerous tackle, I can see a yellow being appropriate. He lifted Clerc, flipped him, then let him drop from height onto his neck and shoulders. That's a red card. It doesn't matter if it's a WC semi or pub rugby. It is what it is. When Warburton himself acknowledges that, yeah, it should've been a red, then I think, yeah, it was probably a red.

[@alexanderlewis612]

Such an optimistic Welsh commentator. That's a red card. Whining Welsh

[@rjhazel58]

The old school panelists reacted with attitudes at the time. Now the issues of concussion are much better understood, the only way to stop that being red would be if he kept hold and significantly reduced the downward momentum. The worst thing would have been to drive the player into the ground, the next worst would be to let go (as he did), both are reds. From the viewer perspective a real shame as it lessened what was shaping to be a fine match. Sam Warburton was imho a very fair, clean player but that doesn't change the decision, each event must be judged upon its own merits.

[@w423350]

If the ref was incorrect/harsh/knee-jerk reaction in giving a red card then why didn't wales appeal against warburton's ban? Interesting no one seems to want to respond to this.

[@JustinRSoles]

@LiquidYogi Their instructions were to start at red and work backwards. As I just stated, I think he should have worked back to a yellow (for the reasons given in my last comment.) Please dont enter a conversation if you cant be bothered to read and understand what has already been said. Thanks.

[@edmmik]

Tipping a player over horizontal is a red..dropping the player made it worse.. As a professional player he's bound to have tackled lighter guys in the past It may not have been malicious but the laws are what they are

[@brynevans8045]

No its not, it's a red card if you spear them, this player was not speared and once Sam realised he could harm the play he dropped him. Ref was too caught up in the heat of the moment and acted without carefully reviewing the situation, poor decision. Like Stuart hogg against Wales, give the yellow and once fully reviewed come back to the decision

[@patrickslamin4092]

lol at martyn williams saying a yellow was harsh

[@vinniechan]

@tdavies456 This is another problem: refereeing consistency. Paddy O' Brien needs to sort that out.

[@vinniechan]

@tdavies456 No they are not over the top: flip is a reasonable cut off point to stop a tackle from deteriorating into a full tilt spear. I have seen players penalised for flip tackles not sent off. But in this case, Warburton turned Clerc, who was lucky not to have landed on his neck, and let go and rules say if u put sb in the air u're also respoonsible for his safe grounding. You can still hit sb hard, just drive backwards not upwards and u're better off injuring ur rib than ur neck.

[@jacobsmith8481]

your judging it by the way the rules are applied today. Back then that sort of hit wasn't punished as harshly. You can't introduce a new directive halfway through the tournament and that's what was wrong about it.

[@tomgarner9781]

ur the then only Englishman i no of that has said something like that!! thank you!!

[@kahuna3901]

The reality is that he didn't drive the player into the ground, but he did not ensure the player was brought to the ground safely. It is supposed to be a red card but I would say considering that the majority of referee's only ever give yellow unless there is definite sign of malicious intent and considering this is a semi final, that should have been a yellow card

[@ed2000888]

I think we proved in the last 6 nation match what a fluke that result was in the semi and it helped that the ref was not a france supporter!

[@Coverdrive50]

inconvenient truth is Wales didn't lose because of the red card. They lost because Jones and Halfpenny missed two kicks

[@adecadewithoutlove]

"In the history of the world cup"???!!1 IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME!!!

[@vinniechan]

@MajorMellons Thx for ur input. That phrase itself leaves so much room for debate doesn't it? I don't buy into the argument u shud make an exception just not to ruin the occasion. I am receiving Aussie coverage here and no one disagree with the decision. Anyway, I am happy u're arguing with laws of the game, which the pundit made absolutely no reference to.

[@toffieandsooty]

Gutted! Never mind, Wales have won the Grand Slam again and are AWESOME!!!

[@christoduplessis8177]

Firstly, was a red card in 2011, is still a red card in 2016 (lift, take him beyond horizontal and release him). But how bloody shit is Francois Pienaar? I am so ashamed to have this oomph go out in the world and represent the rest of South Africa as hardly literate and completely out of touch with reality. That is why he has never made an appearance on South African TV during any game!

[@aleccastro4761]

talking trash there dude. Pienaar speaks sense in this case. Also, what amazing SA rugby pundits have you got in mind? most of our pundits are too thick and inarticulate to make international commentary teams. Pienaar's alright, and got this right. but you were 5 at the time, so it makes sense the big hit scared you

[@vinniechan]

The ITV pundit has absolutely no clue about the rules. The IRB issued to directive to clear out spear tackle so they issued a new rule "flip" which means leg above shoulders. Then as he mentioned Sam didn't take care of the player.

[@shlad999]

this decicision set such an awful precedent. any bad tackle is now a red. ridiculous. seriously damaged the game.

[@Geagles333]

This whole World Cup was a total balls up,First you have Bryce,totally and utterly screwing the Springboks,A New Zealand ref in charge of a game where the winner would face the All Blacks,then in the Semi final they select Alain Colm Pierre Rolland,Who's mother is Irish(who wales knocked out of the quarters)and his farther is French,hmmmm wow how convenient,still think it should of been yellow,but i hold my head high cos Wales still gave them all they could and almost won

[@muppetman666]

@Bigthingreg no he called it red soon as the whistle went

[@HeyHaydn]

Alain Roland - The Irish man with a French name, and speaks fluent french. Why does he always get the France games?

[@TidyCymru69]

I assume you aren't referring to Alain Rolland when stating "One can just not be declared as french if none of his family members are french"? It is common knowledge to the rugby avid public that Alain "always has an impact on the final outcome on any game he officiates" Rolland has an Irish father and a FRENCH mother hence his fluency in French. This renders your point about his nationality moot, and is a strong argument in favour of why he should not officiate any French matches

[@grahamdaley4224]

Rolland was a Twunt. End of

[@RanauGas]

@brudev75 I agree with what your saying but be honest now, Do you think that France played better than Wales in the WC??? Yes results are the most important thing but after watching all the 6 nations teams Wales were clearly the best team to watch followed by Ireland. The fact that Wales had more possession and Territory suggest that they were unlucky to lose with them having just 14 men. France got the final cos they got the results most importantly but they didn't play the better rugby.

[@welshrarebit4940]

Watched the game at a Bondi Pub. Great excitement and anticipation. Aussie and kiwi supporters stated that Wales would win. I felt that too. I told my teenage son, that this is the best opportunity for Wales to win the World Cup in my lifetime. History will show that I was right.

[@danadezza]

No no no my friend this year is the year of welsh rugby!

[@reefrunnerart]

I agree that a red was heavy-handed I reckon that he deserved a yellow since he didn't follow through the tackle, but still a dangerous spear

[@angstBali]

Apologies, Umaga...

[@nini0033]

The red card was well deserved! And the ref is not french whatsoever, his father was belgian not french. Sam is a great player but he deserved the red.

[@cliffordhallett4214]

It is now your turn Francois Pienaar to complain about the forward pass decision that Wayne Barnes has said that it was flat in the Wales 26-30 loss to Australia

[@allblacks4729]

rolland is attention seeker, watch every game he referees......

[@SuperBlackted]

The sad truth is had Wales got to the final they would of beaten the all blacks. The final was awful because both France and the Blacks have chocked so many world cups its not funny. Worst final ever. Wales would of played without fear and put tries on the table. As for Roland well enough said.

[@beatonthedonis]

Three idiots. The importance of the game was irrelevant. The previous record of the tackler was irrelevant. The intent of the tackler was irrelevant. The rules were clear - once you lift the player past the horizontal, if he falls on his upper back or head it's a red card.

[@skybluedan1]

***** thats actually untrue... its a red card if the player has deliberately dropped the player onto his upper back, neck or head.And if there was malicious intent. it was a yellow

[@beatonthedonis]

Law 10.4(j) reads: "Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play." Guidelines issued to referees in 2009: "-The player is lifted and then forced or ‘speared’ into the ground (red card offence) - The lifted player is dropped to the ground from a height with no regard to the player’s safety (red card offence) - For all other types of dangerous lifting tackles a yellow card or penalty may be considered sufficient." Warburton clearly drops the tackled player from a height with no regard to his safety, hence a red card.

[@beatonthedonis]

What happened all through the 2011 RWC was irrelevant. Roland followed the rules and made a good decision.

[@wandrag1430]

Perfectly said. They keep on hammering on the importance of the game which is completely irrelevant!!!

[@hker5524]

beatonthedonis47 The back or shoulder it's a yellow, neck or head landing first will be red, that's why it's controversial

[@garbageFTW]

The frenchie that got owned is probably faking it like they do in soccer

[@RanauGas]

It was a shame that it happened because I think its fair to say that had Sam not got sent off then Wales would have made the final. Its important to for Wales to get over what happened and as long as there is no world cup hangover I think it's safe to say that they look good bets for the 6 nations but I wouldn't rule Ireland out. England I think will surprise a few people and while it sounds stupid to say after they reached the WC final France will have to play alot better than the in the WC.

[@rug568]

@JustinRSoles On what basis should he have 'worked backwards.' Rugby is a dangerous game, no one is denying this. But tackles that could break people's necks should be banned. As i said earlier intention has nothing to do with it. It was a dangerous tackle and that was why he was shown a red card. Considering Sam even said that it was a red i can't see the argument myself.

[@muppetman666]

the best argument the pundits have is it's the start of a WC semi, how does that make it any less dangerous if it's a red after 60 minuets of a dead HC pool match then it's red card here letting warburton stay on the pitch and then get banned after would have killed the game

[@128gzcu0]

I came, I saw, I conquered, I... got sent off

[@Hayeser69]

why are they all talking about "he's not this" he's not that" "the player was lighter" thems are the rules.

[@muppetman666]

@w423350 bit hard to appeal when warburton admitted it in the hearing. also all the similar tackles in the WC received the same ban or longer and the refs were criticised for not handing out red cards, so it was 100% the correct call

[@rug568]

1. Why does the context of the game have anything to do with it? It has a highly dangerous tackle. 2. The referee did not kill the game, SW did. 3. I would expect rugby pundits would have a better grasp of the rules. 4. The destiny of the result was not taken out of our hands, it was controlled by your captain. 5. Intent is irrelevant. That would mean that you could essentially do whatever tackle you please and then claim it was an accident. Rolland should have refereed the final.

[@LiquidYogi]

@JustinRSoles Those aren't the instructions to the referees though. If you want to be the one to give the instructions you gotta work at it for a long while. Till then you cannot blame the referees for following the instructions that their bosses gives them.

[@JustinRSoles]

@rug568 Since the World Cup I have seen several matches get ruined by referees trying to follow this law with many players getting carded for good tackles. Thats why I think he should have given yellow. Referees seem pressured to follow ARs example and go straight to red. Dump tackles have been a part of the game for a long time, why have people suddenly started thinking that they are so dangerous? IMO a dump tackle= good tackle, dump tackle beyond horizontal=yellow, spear tackle=red.

[@NT-fb6ow]

The rule states that should be a red card.

[@NT-fb6ow]

***** Show me a worse tackle that received no card. Also just because other decisions were wrong does not mean that the right decision here is wrong because it is different.

[@brynevans8045]

actually rule states that if you pick a player up you are in charge of how he comes down, his legs were above his head but he landed on his back and with no sign of malicious intent, it was a yellow card and a penalty. Have you never played rugby were you have hit a smaller guy perfectly, when you hit them they're going to go at a different, worse angle than those who are closer in weight. it was a yellow card.

[@NT-fb6ow]

Bryn Evans He landed on the base of his neck, small guy or not he clearly intentionally rotates the guy in the air causing him to land that way. Also the size of the players is irrelevant completely to the actual rules. Just look at the motion of his arms as the player spins, anyone who is not wearing incredibly red tinted glasses can see what he does.

[@twelvetwelvetwelve1212]

+ben-t Paul Emerick on Olly Barkley, RWC 2007. Most disgraceful spear EVER, gets a yellow.

[@pac_is_roberto_duran9467]

+Fifa Nerd So fucking what? Do you want the terrible precedent to remain or do you want a better more just precedent to be set? Haha biased idiots.

[@KSRugby]

yeah, i think it was only a yellow card myself, and i also think Alain Rolland is too quick with decisions in his refing of matches at times, but it wasnt the reason Wales lost, the reason Wales lost was because of those missed kicks in the second half, even with 14 men they should have won, France played so negative and arrogantly in this match.

[@HeyHaydn]

True, the tackle wasn't pretty, but I'm not sure it was a red card anyway - and Roland is always over-the-top for things like this when it's done to France - It kinda looks like Sam expected a much heavier player to run at him and hit him with far too much power in pretty much his centre of gravity, idk

[@zisssssou]

Ok Let's keep it simple: world cup final presences: France 3 Wales 0 6N results since France is in (1954): France:25W/9GS Wales:18W/5GS i guess all is a question of point of view ;)

[@Jack72824]

Francois Pienaar certainly got worked up about this. I wonder if he was as indignant about the egregious display of bias by his compatriot Craig Joubert the following weekend?

[@muppetman666]

@Bigthingreg maybe it was the nz commentators then

[@jamessolda5135]

I agree its a Red but..... based on the other Yellow cards they showed at the end throughout the cup, then it should be a yellow. Its the same type of tackle, cant have double standards.

[@MrRobertjohn15]

He hit him so hard the players body’s momentum tipped body up rather than SAM tipping him up himself to speak him. Should have been an unlucky yellow rather than a red. Secondly all of the example tackles afterwards bar one was worse yet they got yellows.

[@huwevans3830]

Nowadays (2016) it probably would be a red but no other match in that World Cup had been refereed like that so that's why everyone was so angry when he gave the red

[@Aviation-vn7ko]

Huw Evans You're right I remember I was so upset about it then it was a yellow at most. Now it would go to the TMO and maybe a red card. But the laws have changed a lot in the last 5 years where now tackling by the shoulder is yellow so.....

[@huwevans3830]

You have 3 in the video

[@TheLeCaptaine]

Have to laugh at how all these pundits came out with their tail between their legs days later and apologised and admitted they were wrong. It was a red card. Rolland had no option and the IRB backed him

[@andrew097]

Plus I can see why the ref went to red

[@JustinRSoles]

@rug568 Those 'rugby pundits' happen to be three of the most experienced and successful international captains in recent history. They are not basing their opinions on what the IRB say. If everything dangerous was worthy of a red, no team would ever finish a match with more than 10 men. This decision has opened up a grey area for referees and players are now getting sent off for good tackles. It was the wrong decision. Not by the rules, but for rugby.

[@olivierb.2149]

The level of sour grapes and hypocrisy 🥰

[@nunobarreiro1532]

Decent back row of pundits.

[@toffieandsooty]

Wales! Wales! Wales!

[@ed2000888]

Update on the head to head france 43 WALES 45!

[@joshuajones1064]

Why are people still going in about this, all of us in Wales know it was a red card, at first our anger and bias made us believe different but it definitely was a red, but still get over it that was about 3 and half years ago, get over it

[@wandrag1430]

Nice dignified answer coming from the team affected. I myself as a South African am ashamed by Francois Pienaar's comments as they are irrelevant. But nice to hear a Wales fan's perspective. You guys gave us a heck of a run in the Pool games. Had this red card not occured you guys would have won this game hands down!

[@scarletturk3892]

Who the hell are you to speak for 'all of us' in Wales.

[@rhyshagerty3716]

In 2011 this was NOT a red card! This was the moment rugby changed, for the worse! That’s probably an 8 week ban these days 😑👎🏼

[@MrRosshan]

www.rugby.com.au/news/2016/02/10/irb-issues-statement-on-tip-or-spear-tackle. In fact in 2011 it was a red card.

[@mixodorians12]

To be 100% clear this isn't a red card now. It is a yellow. After this incident the whole tip tackle thing went stupid mentawl and now it has calmed down a hell of a lot. One in a hundred times it would be Red. It would be yellow followed by a possible citing. As a welsh fan generally, I am absolutely fed up of Wales being on the wrong end of experimental decisions - in highly crucial games.. that no other team seems to have to deal with. We had highly experimental refereeing of the breakdown against Ireland during the six nations for example. Sam Warburton may as well have retired after this incident. there is nothing he can ever do in his career that will ever make up for it.

[@gingergooner04]

Stuee Cry me a river. A lot of Welsh rugby fans seems to be conspiracy theorists.

[@vinniechan]

@tdavies456 I agree with you totally - that's y he got a 3 weeks ban: hardly anyth and he's back playing as we speak. The referee on the pitch doesn't speculate on player's intent as there is no way to be objective about it.. The point is, you can still hit sb hard, just flipping him. Changes of rules will spark changes in technique and so it serves it's purpose to stamp out spear tackle, which is the whole point.

[@ed2000888]

we beat you again with 15 players how did you like that????

[@BullsEye]

Francois Pienaar should calm down and think how the French felt back in 1995 when he robbed them from a place in the final. Not a leg to stand on!

[@ed2000888]

What was the score today? Beat you home and away now with 15 players shows how disgraceful this decision was!!!

[@ed2000888]

Lighten up it's only a bit of friendly banter! Ive got respect for the French cheer up mate!

[@inBODwetrust13]

"no malicious intent" - doesn't make a difference. The law states that is a red card. It's your responsibility to control the collision as tackler, particularly when you lift someone through the horizontal and you have to bring them down safely. Warburton let go of him, so had no control at all in how Clerc landed. Dallaglio and Pienaar talking absolute shit from an era where an amateur player would break their neck once a week. Because of law changes like this it doesn't happen nearly as freqently

[@apritchard2010]

i was in the stadium when they had the screens up, everyone felt like this, still mad to this day lol