Same Loft Golf Irons Test | Trackman Test

[@jrizzle59]

I think the best test would be testing those different clubs all from the same distance. So choose a distance maybe 150 maybe 180, and then choose the club from that set that you would hit that particular distance. So from the hot metal it, may be an eight iron, and from the tour, it may be a six iron. Then see which one you hit the green with most often, or see which one you have the best strokes gained or closeness to the hole or whatever metric you might want to use. To me that's the best test, that's the test of what actually happens on the golf course. Appreciate your content!

[@diminishedreturn]

So, yes, NOT ONLY loft, but ALMOST ONLY loft. Dress it up any way you like, but 4 yds difference carry or 4-5 yds difference total between the OUTLIERS here sort of confirms: yup, loft-jacking (and shaft length jacking). And honestly, hasn't the marketing been "one club longer" each year since the original Big Bertha? At some point, the rubber needs to touch the road right? And then: each manufacturer with their different driver 'series' for if you want "forgiveness", or if you want to "be able to shape the ball". Have they never been to a range where people hit "forgiving" drivers? I don't think you need more shaping ability than that (+/- 80 yds left or right). Want straight/shaped shots? Control club path and club face. It's as simple/difficult as that.

[@krusher74]

I think you are still missing that the hot metal had the highest apex, so when its normally 2 degrees strong it still hit a normal hight for that club number and not apex lower. like one higher. So you say it's not a 7 it now a 6, but it's still hitting the apex of a 7.

[@diminishedreturn]

​@@krusher74 ...but with a distance and spin of a 6 iron? Very few players target a certain apex height with their irons. Most go by distance, but spin becomes important too. Yes, the height, or perhaps better the angle at which the ball lands is important, but there is no benefit to a 7-iron now being longer than old school 6-irons-other than for marketing. People choosing modern hot metal irons will find themselves "running out of clubs" when their wedge goes 130+ meters (145 yds). There will be a huge gap in the scoring distance zone that you need to fill with, most likely, four wedges. It's not really that important, but if it flies like a 6-iron, why not call it that? I'm not hating on the technology at all, just feel it's a bit misleading at times.

[@CamMacMastermusic]

Great video ! This is the reason I’m going to use 2nd swing to buy my next set of clubs.

[@JDSFLA]

Love this test. Results were as I expected. I don't own the Hot Metal, but my Callaway Maverik's would play about the same, and either fits my game best.

[@adamhess9116]

Got fit by Danny about a month and a half ago. Absolutely love the zx5s and tsi2 woods!! Danny was incredible and made me feel comfortable after I told him I was nervous. Thanks a lot, it was a great experience!

[@JoseHerrera-um1ct]

Love the content fellas! Keeps me entertained at work, while I wait for the weekend to play.

[@tjgreen4417]

I just picked up my jpx921 Forged, back in February. It is my first forged set, an I gotta say, I dont think I'll ever play anything except forged irons in the future. They just have an amazing feel.

[@hebby_k755]

not to mentioned combined with Mizuno being the best feeling clubs in general! You can't go wrong.

[@samhoffmanASU1]

Great video! Thanks for making it, much appreciated! I was curious about how much these distance irons are solely dependent on the stronger lofts.

[@dogiego]

Interesting video - Thank you. The HM had a higher ball speed, but not much more carry distance. I think the higher launch angle hurt distance. Which means if the HM was 2deg stronger in loft, it would carry farther than the other two (& with similar peak heights). And that 2deg is exactly as Mizuno designed it (since you bent it two deg higher in loft). Makes me think Mizuno knows what they are doing. In the HM, looks like they are trying to give players as much distance as possible - players like me, who need distance. In their other irons, they compromise distance (smash factor) to give players other things: like feel, look, etc... - which are players that don't need that distance. That's my interpretation anywho...

[@krusher74]

They all know what they are doing, it's just people are too stupid to understand/grasp "it would carry farther than the other two (& with similar peak heights)."

[@patrickhoward4080]

I love this video…and the irons…could you do an updated club video of this by brand? Recommendations for best overall player distance to be bent to standard/weak/traditional lofts…as I am in need of a little more forgiveness, but I deloft my irons and spin low even with traditional lofts so I want them to remain weak. Currently playing 921 tours standard loft.

[@quickvr4]

Great video, I am glad someone finally made this.

[@2ndswing]

Thanks for watching - Thomas

[@markyoung2981]

Interesting information, thank you for taking the time to post this content for us.

[@michaelreilly5888]

Interesting test folks. All things being equal (loft, shaft length, etc.), technology seems to make a difference at least at the margins.

[@jessehupko]

Great way to test. Can you test the same loft when doing test between brands?

[@Przemek-CzFanboy]

Would be best to see Callaway B21 vs Ping 710 as these have opposite approach to clubhead design. B21 have CG low and further back with low MOI of 13.7. Ping on the other hand have CG much higher and close to the face. However PING strongly wins on like 38% more MOI of 19... Its funny people see ping and say CG low and far back just due to the fact they have cavity back but when measured on Maltby's MPF it looks like PING has CG higher and more forward. For comparison PING Blueprint has MOI of 11.

[@danielcohen3159]

Love the test! thanks for doing that. It reaffirms for me what a great club the 921 Hot Metal is. I mean, they're all great irons. The standard deviations for the Hot Metal are really, really good.

[@JasonkmLi]

Doing this same test with golfers of different skill level would be a very interesting comparison. It would be interesting to see how the clubs would differ at lower speed and not flush on the sweet spot every time.

[@TheMachoMan]

This is one of the best comparisons out there of an equal loft club of Players vs Game Improv. vs Players Dist. irons carry and fly

[@jacobmccain8082]

Love this test idea although bending them weak / strong affect playing bounce but on a mat it shouldn't matter as much.

[@-TroyStory-]

I I would think the different shafts would have more impact than anything.

[@markarbuthnot2693]

Does adding and removing bounce change center of gravity which would impact launch and spin. To be honest if it was a at home comparison different shafts I would say is understandable but a company channel that has a build shop, surely spending $50-$100 to have all three with same shaft would be worth it to take out variable for us that cannot do it regardless of how good the golfer is. By saying shaft doesn’t matter for you makes me question why fit for different shafts then?

[@-TroyStory-]

@@markarbuthnot2693 adding/removing LOFT changes center of gravity but also changes bounce… bounce effects how the club goes through the turf which can definitely impact ball flight but not in the same way changing center of gravity does.

[@glennwiebe5128]

@@-TroyStory- My question is, though, are we not supposed to contact the ball first and then the turf? Maybe I'm just not good (or smart) enough but the only place I notice bounce or grind difference is in the bunker.

[@lkae4]

Thanks for the great test. I saw more fliers with HMP as well so I went to 921T. Amazing feel and shockingly forgiving off the toe but I just wasn't scoring as well as before. I have ordered the 225. Hope the little bit of extra forgiveness and sole will be just right.

[@stephendibari5010]

Great comparison video. Slightly off topic but as you know I was custom fit last May 2021 for 2019 Titleist T-200’s at your DE Location. 4 thru GW. They are super forgiving on off center hits but as I mentioned in a different post off-center hits are loud and give a clacky sound/feel. I’m really regretting not trying and comparing JPX 921 Forged. I think I probably would’ve got the Mizuno‘s instead because they’re a fully forged head and aren’t hollow bodied like the T-200’s. Maybe this fall I’ll compare them when the replacement JPX 921 are released

[@hbyrdut]

I thought the Tour might go more left since you added offset when bending it stronger.

[@davidm7031]

Great test guys, always wanted to see this comparison to isolate tech 👍🏻

[@2ndswing]

Thanks for watching! - Thomas

[@TycoGamingHD]

Great test can we see this with different clubs as well!

[@paulmcgee1867]

Like these?

[@NRY91]

im using hot metal pro and i like it very nice feeling and distance

[@James_Vaughn]

About what I expected, loft is 90 plus percent of the pie, and tech is less than 10, all else being equal. A good example of how a good fitting can be beneficial.

[@canyonaro]

The tour & forged are 1025E and the hot metal is chromoly. The chromoly is a hotter material. The tech differences are mostly about forgiveness, which doesn't matter to Thomas.

[@jbuburuz]

Thank you. Very cool.

[@IlliniDog01]

I've always wanted to see how the latest greatest drivers match up with the best driver heads of years past (Great Big Bertha, Titleist 975/905, Ping TiSi, Taylormade 360Ti/Aero Burner, etc) fitted into modern shafts.

[@2ndswing]

Thanks for watching! Not a bad content ideas at all. Thank You - Thomas

[@bluzman1960]

Love this test I’d like to see more like this especially with irons as it helps with determining what type and manufacturer to choose. You may have already done this but I’d like to see how much difference a driver shaft makes from a stick shaft all the way up to a super premium shaft like the auto flex.

[@randymahony8157]

Always a great video and information.

[@wnfakind9197]

Lofts aside I own the Pro 225’s and these irons are thee nicest irons ever lol . Cheers .

[@cameronloveless1751]

Nice vid guys. I know dynamic loft wasn’t dramatically different, but it was slightly less on the 921 Forged, and I’m sure that contributed to it having the lowest launch

[@terryread7347]

I bought hot metal irons (modus 105 shaft) after restarting golf after 20 yrs off. Strong lofts,high launch! Thought they would be ideal but after a year back and my game returning, I'm struggling. Can't get them low.

[@lkae4]

Same happened to me. Ordered slightly heavier and stiffer shafts in the Mizuno Pro 225.

[@stevecernuto740]

Was it a hot metal or a hot metal pro? You mentioned both at different times.

[@davidspear6682]

Would a better test have been to bend the Hot Metal Pro and Tour irons needing the least bending to match the Forged 7 iron loft? Not necessarily the 7 iron in that set.

[@steviek6484]

Cool idea for a video. Would love to see you do this with Cobra irons

[@NickMaiers-hg3de]

Great video really wanted to see this comparison, forget the number stamped on the club just loft. Just hit the center of the club face, all will be good!

[@MrWubzHD2]

wait i am confused. how is the hot metal the lowest launching but it had the highest launch angle?

[@henrikravn6050]

When I look at that stat, all I see is negligible differences... But I would LOVE to see the same comparison with +10 irons, including blades, oversized, beginner, pro... Also... The pro at my golf course told me this when I was fitted. If you're not in the single digits hcp, then club choice is pretty much irrelevant. Any (beginner/forgiving) club will do, because +20 hcp cant fade, draw, low spin, high spin the ball anyway. BUT!! there is a psychological effect, why clubfitting is still useful. Because the feel, sound, look will be different.

[@Dmh1181]

Sorry if I missed it but how did you guys bend the loft on a cast club? I assume most shops wouldn’t even try that for fear of breaking the club.

[@2ndswing]

Hi Doug. Generally you can bend a cast iron 1-2* weaker or stronger, some are better than others. It does take a bit more work / strength. Touch on wood I have never broken an iron trying to bend but I also limit it to up to 2* with non forged irons - Thomas

[@Dmh1181]

Thanks for that info!!

[@aaronconsaul6645]

Cool comparison, clearly shows the technology built into the club, however as we know each individual has different needs. Some need less spin, some more, +or- launch, loft so this really illiterates the club that should be fit for the individual

[@keithosullivan8710]

Can we have a comparison of mp225 jpx 921 forged.

[@paulgouge1896]

The same shaft and length would be a better comparison; however the biggest difference would b the change of bounce / interaction with turf, which would impact deviation. I play Mizuno but mixing modern sets is more difficult due to loft & bounce changes required, that's why a 'full set' is the best option.

[@JohnnyBoy4]

Why miss the Hot Metal Pro?

[@justinstephenson9360]

Before seeing the test my expectation is HM will fly higher and a little further, Tour will have lowest flight and Forged will be a nice balance of the 2. In terms of carry I would guess half a club difference at most. Now that I have seen the test, my prediction on carry was right - loft is essentially what gives you the carry - but I was wrong about launch...the HM had the highest launch angle as expected but followed by the Tour which I would not have expected, also the Forged was the lowest in terms of spin, maybe not by much but enough although whether that difference would still be there if you hit 20-30 shots per club is questionable. Peak height seems to follow launch angle which makes sense considering how close the spin rates were. As between the HM and Tour my guess is that the performance differences essentially come down to where the weight is positioned in the club, HM has more weight lower down which should get the ball launching higher. The Forged results are difficult to explain, it is not a bad club but it does seem to be outperformed by the other two.

[@jeffyeah4256]

can you compare 921 hot metal with 225 iron????

[@cjsheets24]

Looks like the loft police are out in this thread. A lot of high handicap golfers have slower swing speeds and typically cast or flip the club (increase loft) so stronger lofts can help those players gain a little more distance.

[@glennwiebe5128]

Agreed. It's so interesting on the course when someone asks what I'm hitting I'll say the iron but not the fact that they are original lofts (7i is 34°). Yeah, I just hit a 7 too. Then they want to know how come I out drive them by 60+ yards.

[@billd3692]

Hey - how about having Jon and Ashley from STACKED GOLF come out and get fitted for clubs at 2nd Swing. That would be really cool.

[@2ndswing]

Not a bad option at all that would be a good collaboration - Thomas

[@amadan34]

you should have done 921 regular also

[@manuelhernandez9448]

Qustion: Why not just make the jpx921TOUR 1 degree weaker to 31Deg.? (Changing an iron from 34 to 31 is drastic, going form 6 deg. 30 to 31 is not )

[@nielsjacobsen5125]

the shaft in a 921 Tour 6 iron is longer and would generate more clubhead speed.

[@Robster6480]

Good test. I’d take the players iron all day long 👍🏽

[@2ndswing]

Thanks for watching! - Thomas

[@robertlee7785]

Nice ⌚️

[@jdlayton5193]

Great test and very interesting, however, I am not sure how many conclusions you can really draw from a 5 shot per club test. Especially when it is a human being swinging the club. By his own admission, he struck the hot metal the purist which would definitely contribute to a slightly better smash factor. I don’t think the differences here are statistically significant enough to draw any firm conclusions especially from such a small sample size. If anything, this test proves that there is little to no difference between game improvement and players irons in the same lofts. Definitely not the type of improvement that manufacturers would want you to believe. I would love to see data from 100 more shots alternating irons every 5 shots or so.

[@2ndswing]

Thanks for watching and for the feedback! Unfortunately, for a number of reasons, hitting 100 shots for a test isn’t practical. We try to balance getting enough data to provide a sample without hitting too many shots to keep the length of time manageable

[@jdlayton5193]

@@2ndswing You wouldn’t need to show all the shots in the video, just the data. Another problem with the test is that depending on how much you warmed up before hand, shots 10 to 15 will generally be better and further than shots 1 to 5. Hence the need to switch clubs frequently while gathering data. That being said, I love that you actually bent the clubs for the test and got the same shaft length. I haven’t seen anyone do that before.

[@dogiego]

@@jdlayton5193 For the best applicability/accuracy, a swing robot would be needed. Anyone have a spare $100k?

[@dbo4506]

LOL!!! the differences are negligible. go for feel when you buy and nothing else. You say it’s more then just loft but the stats say otherwise. A

[@mildredsrecipes3543]

Unless these tests are done with an automaton, they're pointless. At one point the tester says: "That felt good". Iron Byron, or some other robot has no opinion. One shot does not feel better than the previous shots.

[@jlnew10]

So bottom line is if the lofts are the same the irons go the same distances and spin about the same........interesting. Keep your old irons and ignore the number on the bottom.

[@2ndswing]

They are closer however the distance is still further with game improvement irons and launch a little higher due to the GC placement - Thomas

[@iTechDude21]

All companies are just loft jacking now. 7 iron spinning 5000 RPM LMAO, pros want to see their 7 irons spinning in the 7000's but companies sell the average joe these low spinning loft jacked clubs to make them delusional and believe they can hit a 7 iron 200 yards.

[@FF04RDF]

A ‘test’ where you bend clubs and use different shafts. Please try harder. 👍🏻

[@MG-th9sl]

Golf must be boring when you hit every fairway.😵‍💫

[@underpar3250]

Not a good test with different shafts.

[@carlsouthward5746]

A bit pointless unless you use the same shaft as well

[@2ndswing]

Depends who is testing. The golf shaft can make a big difference for some golfers while others it doesn't make a difference. It's player dependent. For this test they were all 105 stiff and the club speed was the same. Unfortunately we can't bend our fitting heads and we used clubs from in the store. - Thomas

[@carlsouthward5746]

So you are saying for some golfers shaft fitting is pointless

[@2ndswing]

You want to fit the golfer for the correct flex shaft based on their club speed. From there results are player dependent which is why it is important. Some golfers play better with a heavier shaft or lighter but for some the results can be the same. At 2nd Swing after fitting the correct head we will test 2-3 extra shafts to find out if that's the case. 90% of the time the head makes the biggest difference then shaft - Thomas

[@Brewtal2009]

first

[@BAA3595]

First*

[@pelicanlover69]

Did the clubs have the same shaft? They looked different.

[@2ndswing]

Clubs were bonded (we can't bend our fitting heads unfortunately) so the shafts were what we had available in the store. Not the exact same but they were all the same stiffness and weight category (105 stiff) - Thomas

[@pelicanlover69]

@@2ndswing If you take any club the shaft is the engine. Although the test distances were more or less the same, the dispersion definitely was the shaft.