Samus and Raven Beak's Connection - Metroid Dread Discussion

[@loverofjesusMKII]

Samus did have DNA donated from Grey Voice. It was stated in the manga and reinerated in Dread when they say she has both Thoha and Mawkin DNA.

[@MetroidTrainer]

That's the thing, the Mawkin are from SR388, and grey voice is from zebes, so I dont feel confident enough to assume it's from him atm

[@ChawedMirthPrattEnterprise]

​@@MetroidTrainer This isn't an assumption, it's explicitly stated that Grey Voice was the donator of Samus' Chozo DNA in the manga, which has now be slightly retconned into being Thoha DNA. It's in chapter 12.

[@DongKEKong]

@@MetroidTrainer mawkin are not from sr388. Nobody is from that place.

[@Bakanineinstein]

@@MetroidTrainer It's true, that said it's no surprise that from what little we know about Raven Beak he would consider his contribution to Samus as the most significant no matter how much it might have actually been... A "fact" made all the more irrelevant by the "last?" Thoha's sacrifice at the end to give Samus back control over her DNA...

[@MetroidTrainer]

@@ChawedMirthPrattEnterprise then I need to re read the manga. I remember it being alluded, but it's been a while. The whole thoha and mawkin classification really threw me for a loop

[@swoodmaster0242]

It does feel pretty on-brand for Raven Beak to consider himself her father after just chucking some of his DNA into the genetic soup that is Samus Aran. I definitely think he would feel entitled about it.

[@OptimusPhillip]

I never had a problem with the twist. Maybe it's just that I spent a lot more time on this my first playthrough than most, but I never felt like it was poorly paced or even that it went against anything previously established. I just went by the multiple donors theory, figuring that Old Bird and/or Grey Voice were Thoha. After all, if Raven Beak were on Zebes for Samus's DNA transfusion and then went to SR388 and later ZDR, it meant that the Chozo Tribes weren't limited to single planets.

[@GamingWithCalvin1]

she has dna from both thoha and mawkin, it was stated by fake adam after we meet quiet robe, that's what was setting up the raven beak twist. Thoha is both sr388 and zebes, meaning yeah, grey voice was the donor of some of the dna. Raven beak was just the mawkin part

[@edgarantivarnanature.5256]

Raven Beak was only focused on his own dynamic and likely didn't care about grey voice and old bird, but their still cannon to her life because Manga lore of her being given DNA is still involved in cut scenes. Raven Beak being a dick wouldn't have bean sketched into with the other 2 father's, that would be way out of character. Also another thing to speculate on post hoc: Samus had the power to control and keep Metroids docile with her DNA and that's why the baby metroid was chill with her, Samus over analysed it as love.

[@edgarantivarnanature.5256]

That Baby was maybe the last compatible version with the DNA, or the genes turn on or off, or its game mechanics why other Metroids attack: which I kinda doubt given DNA and Metroids mutating explanations.

[@MetroidTrainer]

I never once thought about the baby being naturally docile to samus cause of the Thoha DNA, but that makes so much sense!

[@edgarantivarnanature.5256]

@@MetroidTrainer I think it works a little bit. Its a bit reaching, but it works without really trying.

[@purplesamurai5205]

@@MetroidTrainer While I do agree the Thoha DNA played some part, remember that Federation Force establishes that anyone witnessing a Metroid birth can imprint on it, including Space Pirates. However, while I think the Baby imprinting on Samus had little to do with her DNA, I am 90% sure the Baby sparing Samus's life in Super Metroid was mostly Samus's Thoha DNA kicking in. While it could be argued the Baby simply heard Samus's low energy alarms and remembered her, we do not even know if her suit makes those sounds on the outside. Also worth noting is that the Baby was under the influence of Mother Brain's powerful brainwaves at the time, which theoretically should make it more difficult for the Baby to stop attacking Samus. This is why I believe the Baby sensed Samus's Thoha DNA, which is what caused it to stop attacking at the last moment. After that, it probably remembered who Samus was and fully broke free from Mother Brain's control.

[@KiddKyle67]

I agree that it really comes out of nowhere. I blame it more on how metroid handles storytelling in general. Most info on Samus and chozo come from the manga, with most game plots being really simple. Having story and lore be hidden or shoved at the very beginning and the very end. Fusion, Prime 3, and Other M had the most story and dialogue and people constantly complain about them. But you can't really have a good twist with just an intro and a single exposition dump. I honestly wanted Samus talk more about the Chozo than just saying one line, especially since its been almost a decade since she had seen one. They didn't even mention Old Bird or Grey Voice which has led some of the newer fans and fans who hadn't read the comics to straight up think Raven Beak raised her.

[@chrispork1443]

It’s not fan fiction if it was actually written by the creators. I’m sure Sakamoto had the twist in mind the moment he started writing the story for Dread.

[@zackxeno1019]

Personally I think they could've kept the twist but maybe characterize Raven Beak more than just "I like power bc strong"

[@lehashura490]

Actually for a "I want power to get stronger and therefore more power" vilain he's not that bad, make him more obssessed by the notion of power (like crazy religious obsession) and it would be perfect (kinda like Hyness in kirby star allies)

[@countlazuli8753]

@@lehashura490 He's kinda already there. Quiet Robe describing him as "worshipping at the altar of power" and his robes translating to Hadar Sen Olmen.

[@Dg_Gaming_YT887]

1. I was very shocked with the reveal to but I agree with what you had to say about it. 2. I like the new intro a lot.

[@littlemonster7917]

Idea: raven beak caused mother brain to no longer work with the chozo and become the leader of the space pirates

[@raoz2324]

I agree

[@mds_main]

I agree, the twist came out of nowhere and it will lead to nowhere (especially with Raven Beak dead). That part (and the story in general) is probably one of the very few parts I don't like of Dread. Anyway, despite having Mawkin DNA as well, Samus still retains her Thoa DNA from Grey Voice (as explicitly confirmed by the manga and even Dread itself to some extent). In the Dread cutscene we can even see Grey Voice's and Old Bird's silhouettes in the back, and the room as well as the appearance of the Thoa chozos in the scene are taken straight out of the manga. So at least there is no contradiction, only a bad retcon. That said, there is something else that bothers me more. They said the metroids were also created to see Mawkins as enemies, but why would it be that way? They clearly had good relationships up until that point, with Raven Beak being one of Samus's donors and the Mawkins helping the Thoas containing the SR388 metroids. This doesn't make any sense, unless we consider something else from the manga, being the Chozo and Space Pirates alliance. From the manga we know that happened around the same time of the Metroids' creation, so maybe, while the Thoas were faking their alliance, the Mawkins were really in board with it, making them terrible enemies as well... There is also the fact that is seems that Raven Beak gave the Space Pirates the black hole technology that allowed them to invade Zebes. I really hope these things gets explained sooner or later. It's in times like this that I want Nintendo to finally release the manga in the west and to create the Metroid equivalent to "Hyrule Historia".

[@ZdsZodyrus]

I don't think about it as him being her father. Personally I think Raven Beak considered himself to be her father, but Samus likely does not. Also, there could be different types of chozo beyond Mawkin and Thoha tribes.

[@MetroidTrainer]

I feel the same way. That's why I want to believe samus was just angry cause she doesn't see him as her father, and got insulted by the claim

[@enforcerridley158]

Well, there is that Chozo Tribe on Tallon IV.

[@TheAccursedHunter01]

I have 2 questions based on Raven Beak giving Samus his DNA. 1) Why would Raven Beak infuse his DNA into a human child, something he would no doubt view as weak and feeble? 2) Wouldn't the Mawkin raise Samus as a warrior since they're the warrior tribe of Chozo? I wouldn't be surprised if it might have been a condition of Raven Beak donating his DNA in the first place... but that's not what happen considering this is a retcon. Question 2 relates to another general question I have of why did the Mawkin and Thoha collaborate on several things despite the Thoha programming Metroid to recognize the Mawkin as enemies? Maybe the Mawkin and Thoha used to be one tribe that split into 2 at one point so they have stayed in touched to some extent, even if they don't agree on general philosophy among other things.

[@kidkruschev]

My guess to your first question is that, if I remember correctly, there’s a sect of Chozo who are able to “look into the future” or something, and they saw someone who would carry the mantle of their race so to speak. Obviously this is Samus. It’s plausible that Raven Beak believes these Chozo and donated his DNA for that purpose. Beyond that, I don’t know. There is also Chozo lore that states they’re a warlike race, or were. It isn’t far fetched to believe there are tribes that greatly disagree with each other even to the point of trying to destroy each other. It also isn’t implausible that they can come together for brief moments to agree on things, and then go back to being enemies. We see that in reality here on earth. I don’t see why the Chozo would be above that.

[@alecloz]

so samus have 5 dads lol

[@noirua]

I took it more as him being obsessive and controlling, rather than the narrative itself presenting him as her actual father. It's more like he's trying to claim ownership over her after neglecting her pretty much all 20+ something years she's been alive. It shows his arrogance and selfishness as a character.

[@ArmaBiologica35]

I remember reading the manga and thinking the only reason behind Samus going through genetic augmentation was for her to be able to survive the harsh environmental conditions of planet Zebes. I remember some time ago people saying that Zebes has 90 times the gravity of Earth ...which is BS, but point is the fact she becomes much stronger than the average person was seen as a side effect. I guess the implication now is that only the Mawkin Chozo can weild the power suit which makes sense given what you see in the game, and they didn't want some no name chozo to be the donor but... So what?

[@novustalks7525]

It was a brilliant way to reference the manga directly which is something the games have never done. On the flipside it's mentioned and forgotten about again immediately as you don't get time to process it. The mawkin as a whole were pretty badly written if we're being honest. Like how are we supposed to believe they went to zebes to rescue kraid in super Metroid for example? Or why wasn't samus ever told anything about them growing up?

[@mds_main]

Just a little correction, the manga was directly mentioned by the games before Dread (Zero Mission and Other M come to mind). Anyway, I agree with you.

[@samnoel9203]

I think the issue with the twist is, unless you've read the manga then you as a Metroid fan will likely not know what's going on. Raven Beak isn't the genetic father, he donated a bit of his DNA, it's not too far off to say that Raven Beak didn't visit Zebes either, given that he is a Chozo and Tourian also existed to house Metroids. Remember that the central units all had rinka turrets and similar machinery compared to Mother Brain's housing in Tourian, maybe that's where he got the idea from. Anyways, him calling himself Samus' father is a character device to show just how conceited he is as a character, that he thinks that just because he gave Samus his DNA, that he made her into everything she is. It's a power complex and classic manipulation.

[@MetroidTrainer]

Aw man I thought I set it to be released on Friday?🤨 Anyways what did u guys think? Next video is gonna be a comment section video/dread giveaway reveal

[@DongKEKong]

Samus has both genes, dude. Toha and Mawkin.

[@MetroidTrainer]

I've mentioned that in the video. And I said I wasn't sure if old bird or grey voice was the thoha DNA cause they're from zebes.

[@novustalks7525]

@@MetroidTrainer the mawkin are originally from zebes too. In zero mission you see all the glyphs of warriors with spheres and some with wings like raven beak

[@flareonblaze3628]

And when I disliked RB for the twist being out of nowhere and his characteristic being: "I like power." I got called a hater for it. Still, I wish his ideals weren't "I want power." But instead at least a little deeper. Not exactly good, but I think it should have had the "Bad side's good reasoning" thing. Ofc, I can't write everything but they could have changed it so the reason RB wanted Metroid DNA was to save ZDR from an X infection. Which he thought Samus wouldn't be able to do or something (made this up rn btw). I am not an expert storyteller, but MS could have done it if you ask me.

[@MetroidTrainer]

If raven beak had a personal reason to want power, like maybe he was ignored for being too weak and now seeks power to be heard, then I think It would be better

[@flareonblaze3628]

@@MetroidTrainer agreed. I want to side with the hero, but I want villain to be reasonable too. Just to add that polish and at least make the character feel more human.

[@novustalks7525]

He had so much potential to be a great villain but was wasted

[@bugonboris6681]

Instead, Raven Beak intentionally unleashes the X becouse "POWER IS EVERYTHING!"

[@cosmicsans67]

i kinda like the twist tbh! especially if you look into the themes of like, family doesnt end with your blood relatives. it couldve been framed a LOT better tho

[@MetroidTrainer]

It definitely could have been framed better lol

[@GilAzuara]

Lets remember that gray voice betrayed samus, and motherbrain designed her powersuit, besides both telling her that everything she has lived was to turn her into a weapon while trying to convince her to join the space pirates, knowing this, it makes sense for her to have the strongest chozo's genes. Maybe gray voice had a similar genetic profile to raven beak that allowed raven's beak to prosper in samus's body since each of both chozo's genes would fill up for the other chozo dna's imperfections, preventing her from horribly and painfully mutating while being infused with these genes... He feeling himself like a father to her are both just his delusions and another topic

[@PrimalKnight430]

Personally, I honestly have and had enjoyed the plot twist, though I will agree that it could’ve been better if it was given more time to develop. I feel, that if anything, he is the sole reason she could get in that suit in the first place. While Old Bird and Grey Voice’s DNA helped her survive on Zebes, maybe Raven Beak’s DNA is just how the Power Armor worked, since both right arms were glowing on that screen. He’s just that guy who’s like “I gave you your power, and I can take it back”

[@MetroidTrainer]

With Mawkin Chozo being more combat focused, I wouldn't be surprised that their DNA is what makes the power suit so effective

[@hughreid5303]

I love the new intro to these videos!

[@wildbard4112]

I frankly love the twist

[@jonaszprzybycien6545]

"Like I had more questions than anserws" bro just sumarized the entire game in one sentence.

[@lukethepuncher9888]

The build up is the delay between dread and fusion

[@MetroidTrainer]

Lmao I wish

[@higgz8547]

I'm pretty disgusted honestly, mercury clearly read my wattpad posts and then (naturally) left me out of the game credits! WHAT THE HECK! >:((((((

[@chrispork1443]

Do you think Samus hates Raven Beak more than Ridley?

[@mds_main]

Don't think so. To Samus RB is just an egomaniac that happenes to be one of her donors, Ridley on the other hand has personal ties to Samus, none of which are good for her.

[@HOLDENPOPE]

About Raven Beak being 'basic': Some people just like power and control, even in real life. Some people genuinely enjoy having power over others, and being able to excercise that power however they want. It's not unreasonable that Raven Beak is a Narcissist born into a position that fed his ego and enabled his behavior, especially since his culture already seems to value power anyway (And yes, there are various reasons a culture could come to value power). Pure evil villains are not some cardinal sin of writing that needs to be avoided at all cost, Hell, they're often used as devices for more sympathetic villains' origin stories, and also usually end up as the most flamboyant and fun villains *in* these stories. Ideally, it's good to have a variety of villains that range from sympathetic to irredeemable, same for heroes, but you can't blur a line unless a line exists to begin with.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

The point of the twist is that Raven Beak is the anti-Samus. Remember how the baby Metroid sees Samus as its mother? Samus never demands anything from the Metroid, but their bond is close enough that the Metroid sacrifices itself to save her. Now contrast with Raven Beak. He declares himself Samus’s father based on some genetic connection, and demands obedience from his “daughter”. But we never see Samus herself acknowledge or respect Raven Beak’s assertion, because she doesn’t see him as her father. And so she kills him.

[@njfox3305]

I can see why people don't like the twist but think about it this way the idea of there being more than one doner opens up alot of possibilitys people know samus had thoha gens which belong to grey voice but think raven beak wasn't the only chozo their grey voice old bird and others we're there so think about it samus is stronger than any chozo and succeaded were other chozo failed shes a combo of multiple chozo factions not just thoha or mawkin image samus finding out that there were more doners giving samus a share of these factions abilitys. Thoha metroid control, mawkin strangth and power, what if some other faction gave samus other abilitys like the wall jump or use of the morph ball something only chozo could do and not unaltered humans. All thats left is to ask who are the other doners how many fathers and mothers in the chozo race dose samus have? maybe this will be explored in future games I don't know. I'm all for it though and I say it works say what you think.

[@MetroidTrainer]

There is a ton of potential. I would like to see other factions like Tallon iv chozo having stronger spiritual connections or something like that

[@njfox3305]

@@MetroidTrainer Agreed I highly dought a human could use tallon or elysian tech with out help I humans can't use Aeon powers

[@jaredcrane3845]

It's not like the Vader twist at all, and not much attention is focused on it in the game; I see it more as just evil characterization for Raven Beak, trying to be manipulative and viewing Samus as his property in a way, or rather, that she owes him, since his DNA did help her physical prowess

[@CreamDollYT]

I had an idea: The reason they don't make metroid games a lot anymore is because they don't want to repeat other m or federation force They won't make a movie for metroid because they are afraid of repeating the super mario live action film They won't make a metroid TV show / anime for they don't want to repeat the super mario and zelda TV shows. Great video by the way!

[@MetroidTrainer]

I think the simple reason is just cause metroid doesn't sell as much as Mario or Zelda

[@shadowphantom2]

Raven beak’s connection to samus felt kinda tacked on, and her “daddy issues” starting with adam also didn’t feel like a convincing enough dilemma with samus to be able to be traced into a consistent growth or change in her character.

[@themole3000]

Raven beack say that she has both tohan and mawkin DNA what are you talking about?

[@Hoshionifumo]

They just ripped off the manga, but mixed it up. as I predicted.

[@richarddillinger9039]

Samus has Thoha DNA from Gray Voice. When we see the part where Samus is receiving Chozo DNA from Raven Beak, I translated the Chozo text on the right, which says "Mawkin", while the Chozo text on the left says "Thoha". I personally liked the reveal. It was my favorite twist so far in the Metroid series, and after completing the game, I dwelled on this detail, as well as the fact that Samus' metamorphosized.

[@purplesamurai5205]

Interesting take. I certainly agree with the first part about Dread giving us more questions than answers, not just for this but for all it's lore contributions. I also think the twist would've been better had Raven Beak been established previously. The second part is interesting, since like I said we have more questions than answers. Although the manga is non canon like I said in another comment, we know that both the concepts of Old Bird (A Chozo father figure) and Grey Voice (someone who accompanied him) are indeed canon, even if their names are personalities are non canon. Since we don't know at all if the Zebesian Chozo are Mawkin, Thoha, or something else completely, we have no idea if Old Bird and Grey Voice contributed Thoha DNA, a new type of DNA, or no DNA at all. Another likely candidate for Samus's Thoha DNA is obviously Quiet Robe since we know Raven Beak wanted to use his DNA. Anyways, while your third point deals with the manga a lot, I do think the parallels we're intentional, almost as a way of replacing Mother Brain's manga role with Raven Beak's.

[@hansgretl1787]

Part of the problem is of course that Nintendo refuses to rerelease the older Metroid games or even the Manga in a convenient manner, forcing Sakamoto to say "You can totally start with this one!" Because of course he wouldn't say "don't play it if you haven't played the other ones." Now plenty of people that have never played another Metroid game and barely know more about the series than what Smash showed them are gonna be completely lost and have no context at all, so it just comes of as a total clusterfuck. One thing I do like though is how this explains why Samus is such a beast in combat. Why would the DNA of these spiritual Chozo make her so powerful? It wouldn't. But she got part of the DNA from the Warrior tribe instead, explaining it perfectly fine. Then again, we were just content for like 30 years without knowing about this, so how desperate were we to have that of all things answered? I don't think it was worth it. Now here is my hot take: I want the next game to be a reboot storywise. Whether a soft reboot or hard reboot, I just want a new main character on a different mission relatively far removed from Samus, or if we play as her again, hopefully the story will be less personal to her. By now, her backstory has so many moving parts and it's all so convoluted that new players are bound to be lost, and it's become more and more difficult to write new aspects around her that don't clash with or undermine something else. Like, just think about how many "perantal figures" Samus has had over the course of it all.

[@MetroidTrainer]

I wouldn't mind a fresh start when it comes to the story. It's a big universe, so I'd like to see samus take on random missions. Like prime hunters, it can just be a stand alone story that just fits in the timeline, and yeah it's cool that the warrior chozo DNA helps justify her strength, but I also agree that it wasn't a burning question I needed to be answered for

[@Fallout907]

I loved this twist at the end. Completely didn’t expect it so when I got to it I had to literally set down my switch and take a few minutes to just comprehend everything that had happened. I kinda freaked out 🤣

[@Barmeecarba]

Overhated twist for sure.

[@MetroidTrainer]

100% agree

[@baileywatts1304]

Not sure I actually agree with the twist, considering we're informed of it by Raven Beak who is already established as desperate for power, possibly delusional, definitely extremely manipulative, and who has been casually lying to Samus for the entire game. Expecting one thing he says to get in the head of the person who has come to bring him down right at the end of her mission as being completely on the level does not work for me. I just don't trust like that.

[@MetroidTrainer]

Yeah I wouldn't trust raven beak either, but I dont think the writers would do that. Making the twist of a story a lie with no clarification that it's a lie by the end is just bad writing

[@juliosnap]

The twist was Garbo, but I think he was a shitty villain overall. First of all the name raven-beak is stupid because a Raven is an earth bird. But more importantly his motives are so flat and stupid. He just wants "power" for its own sake. It's such a dated and simple kind of villain where his motives are not sympathetic in any way. Overall the story in dread was bad, but the gameplay was good. Although I wish it had more cool boss diversity.

[@HOLDENPOPE]

Was the Zodiac Killer sympathetic? Was Ted Bunty sympathetic?

[@BRATTYBBRRII]

Subscribe and liked the video,now give me kiss -bri

[@MetroidTrainer]

Of course u have a Garfield pfp😂

[@dis_inferno9173]

Dude, you loosed the point.