San Diego Near Miss-Understaffed Air Traffic Control

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[@HughShower]

Just after WW2, the Navy offered the City of San Diego the huge Miramar airbase for $1 - the city turned it down because it was too far out of town. By the 80s, the city begged the Navy to sell them Miramar to replace Lindbergh - the Navy’s response was predictable.

[@dandaniel439]

San Diego had the opportunity to take over Miramar NAS when the Navy left about 20 years ago. Neighbors of NAS louldy objected to making Miramar NAS a civilian airport so the polititions in SD caved and stayed at "One Runway Lindberg'.

[@cheesyriceo4]

Im sure the neighbors prefer the gentle sounding F-35s and F-18s over these screaming 787s

[@johnnywad7728]

That's because it was politicians once again using their " infinite" wisdom!😂

[@johnnywad7728]

​@@cheesyriceo4reminds me of a rock quarry that I worked for back in the 1990s. The quarry was there long before the town grew up next to the quarry. Then the towns people whining and crying about the blasting that happened weekly at the quarry. Can't build homes and townhouses next to airport and expect silence and serenity!

[@01261988733]

Are you saying that this incident wouldn't occur if they were flying at KNKX? Non sense with your comment.

[@shelleymurphy1966]

I fly in REH50 as a flight nurse. Yesterday we were headed into Fortuna, CA to pick up a patient from Arcata (KACV is closed completely this week for work on runway 32). We were on a 2 mile final and at least 3 other aircraft were headed in about the same time. One was a small GA plane and the other were 2 helicopters. We could hear the traffic from the 2 helicopters but not the GA plane but we knew he was out there because he had been talking to Oakland. He had stated that he was changing from trying to get in at Murray and was going to now land in Fortuna. Suddenly he appeared on our right and was lining up to land despite the fact we were on 2 mile final. Thankfully our pilot had great situational awareness and went around. After we landed, my pilot spoke to the GA pilot and discovered he was on the wrong frequency. This situation just cemented in me the importance of situational awareness, not just by our pilot but by all members of our flight crew. We were all looking for the plane we knew was out there somewhere. I’d like to give kudos to my pilot for his amazing actions that kept everyone safe!

[@mkultruh7221]

Thanks for another good video. I’m a controller at a center and we are extremely understaffed. They are certifying unqualified people to get staffing numbers up. There will be much more of this to come. Management is unwilling to listen to any sensible reasoning when it comes to this kind of thing. Pretty horrible to be a controller these days…

[@extinman4750]

I retired 2 years ago. I could’ve worked 4 more years, but for the exact same reasons you state (understaffing and quality of controllers), I took my 32 years of experience and left. Best decision I ever made.

[@atcdude067]

Funny enough, the controller in this incident has been certified for a long time. So, as much fun as it is to blame the new kids ….

[@LeePatCab]

What happened to PATCO ? What happened to the 5 mile separation rule?

[@jamesebdon1212]

This is a giant heaping helping of unadulterated BS.... The FAA and the NTSB are playing russian roulette with air passengers lives. If this continues... There is going to be a landing aircraft have a bird strike or other malfunction while flying over another plane. There is going to be a horrific collision that's going to kill everybody big enough to die!!! Then both FAA & NTSB are going to wring their hands and say how sorry they are.... At the same time the NEGLIGENT ATC that caused/allowed the conflict will be crying as they say they are sooo busy/distracted in the tower.... All the while they are all immune for getting their butts sued off. For what?? A 5, 10, or 15 minute speed advantage in take offs and landings. Just how many runway incursions/close calls have there been in the last 12 months??? TOO DAMN MANY!!!!

[@alohabob9]

@@extinman4750 Same here....

[@tomdchi12]

Part of learning how to be pilot in command has been learning that sometimes you have to override ATC when you’re in the air. I’m a little surprised that the Citation got as low as it did if the radio call from that pilot was because he saw that the SW aircraft was still on the runway ahead of them. Seems like it would have been more prudent to start climbing even before the controller called for going missed.

[@generaldvw]

Yes... This is what I wanted to find out.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Would definitely have been more prudent, to just call out "Missed approach, going around" and call-sign than calling up tower trying to verify anything. Sure, the controller messed up, but it's imminently "fixable" if the pilot bothered... Thankfully it didn't get any worse, and of course, while ugly, some days we just chalk a cautious "W" and move on... Just worth the note. ;o)

[@mytech6779]

Transponder altitudes are not very precise, the citation could have had 250 feet of clearance. I even if following glideslope all the way to touchdown they would have been 170agl while over SW's position.

[@kimchristensen3727]

The Citation crew made a proper judgment call: Don't go around until you are 100% sure the Southwest plane will not be cleared for takeoff. As long as there is still a chance the Southwest plane could be cleared for takeoff you don't want to initiate the early go-around and create a conflict in the air.

[@TM-nu7pj]

​@@kimchristensen3727 I would argue if you know they're ALREADY on the takeoff roll, that's when you'd want to be careful going around. In this case, whether it was because they visually saw Southwest, hadn't heard a takeoff clearance (or both) the citation clearly was aware Southwest was still sitting there because they tried to query ATC multiple times. If you don't go around on your own, what are you going to do otherwise? Keep descending until you clip the 737's tail?

[@billmoran3812]

It’s one thing for controllers to multitask during slow periods at a class C or D airport. But there’s no way that should ever happen at class B airports. The tower controller in this instance should have only one thing on her mind, the separation of arrivals and departures. Ground movements and clearance issues must be handed off to another controller. Not only does the lack of controllers result in loss of attention, it defeats the communication protocol by having excess chatter on the tower frequency.

[@spiritmatter1553]

I’m a woman and I don’t think women should work as ATC’s.

[@molarrr]

@MooneyPilotthey have reporting systems in place now that almost make it impossible to get fired. You can fill out a report and basically say my bad, and it’s largely not punitive. which probably isn’t a good thing.

[@paulazemeckis7835]

What the hell is behind your comment? Women in general can multitasking better then men.

[@paulazemeckis7835]

@spiritmatter What the hell is behind your comment? Women in general can multitasking better then men.

[@emilycrewe3794]

@@spiritmatter1553Good for you? Your opinion has been noted and dismissed as “pick me” nonsense.

[@JohnWLewis]

As a once-upon-a-time mere private pilot in the UK, who flew a couple of times in the USA, and follows these incident reports, it remains a mystery to me why controllers in the USA continue to clear multiple aircraft to use the same runway at the same time. Not doing so works fine elsewhere, including as Juan describes at similarly busy airfields such as London Heathrow. What do they expect to happen if, after multiple clearances, communication is compromised either, as here, simply due to "stepping on" each other or, more seriously, loss of communication with one or more aircraft, or, even worse, the controller? From the perspective of having been trained in a European environment, when flying in the US, hearing: "Report downwind, you're number two, clear to land" made absolutely no sense!!

[@sithticklefingers7255]

Mandatory workaholism is everywhere over here.

[@johnvrabec9747]

The reason is money. More take odds and landings means $ for the airlines. I would hazard a guess the FAA kowtows to the airlines like the CDC and FDA do to big pharma. Just a guess.

[@LTS720]

Human life isn't a priority over here that's why.

[@edgemclean]

The controller shortage is a self inflicted wound by the FAA years in the making. Back in 2020 when I got out of the Navy, I applied to the FAA under a prior experience bid, by that point I had been a fully qualified air traffic controller for 3 years, I was rejected, and never given a reason why. Luckily I was able to land work at a contract tower, but I remember reading that they fell short of their hiring quota by 2,000 controllers that year. A great start is to not reject prior experienced controllers that don't have a single red mark on their career.

[@bearowen5480]

Most likely you didn't meet their DEI hiring standards. The chickens are circling the field and will soon be coming in to roost! (If they haven't already!)

[@tonyc223]

@@bearowen5480 The mental illness of woke destroying nations one HR department at a time.

[@edgemclean]

@@bearowen5480 I'm not familiar with what their DEI standards are, but to be fair, I was too surprised that I was rejected to look into it. It worked out for the better though, I absolutely love my facility that I'm at, I've been here for 3 years, and there's no way I'm leaving it, I'm more than willing to take the pay cut to stay at a Class D solely for the quality of life here.

[@biggianthead2016]

See my comment above.....

[@hotrodray6802]

Typical feds. You must not fit affirmative action.

[@tilmanfrers7206]

I feel the same. In Canada, in these situations, we will get a call on approach, that goes along the lines of "C-GXXX, traffic on the runway, expect landing clearance on a 2 mile final", and once they've taken off, we get out "cleared to land". More work for the controller, but certainly safer.

[@RobertHancock1]

Does seem better than the US approach seen here. In this situation, if ATC dropped the ball like this, the Cessna would have to go around since they would never have gotten final clearance to land.

[@silmarian]

This problem has been brewing for years.A friend of mine is recently retired atc and they were talking about not having enough staff well before covid.

[@dks13827]

well hire some quotas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now.

[@Datamining101]

You can probably look as far back as 1981 for the beginning of these problems.

[@silmarian]

@@dks13827 tell congress that, they set the budget

[@forsakencitizen2664]

Imagine if the FAA was able to fire all the ones that refused the covid shot. They really, really wanted to do that.

[@missyroades4533]

@@forsakencitizen2664 oh stop it! This started in the 80's

[@lug01]

Having likely sat in that exact same chair at Lindbergh a few thoughts come to mind. Southwest was taxied onto the runway with a landing Delta rolling down the runway when the Citation was on a 5 mile final. Normally, that is an adequate amount of room to launch a Southwest 737 ahead of traffic 5 miles out as long as the preceding arrival gets off the runway in a timely manner. In this instance, Delta exited the runway at B8 and depending on how quickly they cleared the runway, (sometimes it is not so quick for a variety of reasons) may well have reduced the anticipated time window available to get Southwest rolling. Generally speaking it takes about 45 seconds on average for a landing air carrier jet to cross landing threshold, rollout, and clear the runway. Once cleared for takeoff it takes about 45-50 seconds for a departure to get airborne and clear the runway for an arrival. At normal approach speeds, if a Southwest 737 departure has not began rolling down the runway with an "immediate" takeoff by the time the arrival is at 1.5 miles as indicated on the tower radar, a potential go-around situation exists that requires the extra full attention of the controller. As soon as the landing Delta cleared the runway, Southwest probably should have been cleared for takeoff. Issuing an amended clearance to another aircraft sitting on the taxiway was not a priority and could have been easily handled by the tower controller once the separation of runway traffic was ensured. Listening to the voice recording it does not appear that the ADSE was responsible for alerting the tower controller to the impending situation but was rather due to the comments of the Citation pilot on short final. An aural ASDE alert is very loud and without failure gets your attention. It will be interesting to learn if it performed as advertised in this incident. There are also usually other sets of experienced eyeballs in the cab with a responsibility to assist the local controller when needed. Where were they?

[@RichFreeman]

The computer should be preventing these clearances from being issued in the first place, not trying to detect when a disaster is moments away. Sure, the last line of defense helps but if they had issued one clearance and not three there would be no disaster to stop.

[@cecilboatwright3555]

That's an excellent point! CA-CAs and ASDE warnings are usually VERY audible on the frequency/recordings. I think she just glanced up from the flight progress strip with the reroute on it and SAW what was happening, from the way she just went from routing to missed approach instruction in the very same breath!

[@lug01]

Ever land on a carrier or watch a Cessna intentionally nosedive off the approach end at MYF?@@cecilboatwright3555

[@chrislane1630]

Exactly, where were they??? On their phones???#$$%&*&^%$#!!!

[@MatecaCorp]

I can’t help but think that these constant “near misses” will soon be traded for disastrous crashes.

[@yankeeairpirate1799]

As a retired ATC let me point something out here....yea, the controller screwed up ( she had a system error, or a “deal” as we used to say)... but to her great credit, she stayed with it and fixed it calmly...yes some pilots were a bit pissed, but all went home to their families....give her some more training and more help and cut her loose again, she will just be better.

[@MattyEngland]

More by luck then judgement. If the citation hadn't called, she probably wouldn't have even noticed.

[@RichFreeman]

The poor judgment is with whoever wrote the reg that says you can have three aircraft cleared onto one runway. We shouldn't rely on controllers spotting these problems. What if the citation didn't notice? What if communications problems interfered with the last minute changes?

[@martinda7446]

I'd have been a bit more vocal telling the Citation to, ''GO AROUND'' I may have shouted it. She seemed very calm. So calm the guy asked for confirmation... I may even have added a, 'NOW'. Edit: That was a great explanation, brilliantly clear.

[@HeavensGremlin]

As you said - in the UK for example, no a/c may land - OR BE CLEARED TO LAND, if the runway is not 100% CLEAR. Sadly, it's blindingly obvious that the situation in the USA is heading for some catastrophic incident(s)..... Relying on overworked ATC staff or superhuman anticipation by aircraft crews just will not cut it. The FAA needs to step-in pronto.......as the alarm bells are ringing loud and clear.....

[@RichFreeman]

Exactly. The root cause is a lack of positive control. Assume that radios will fail at the worst time, that planes won't hear things said to other planes, and that the last minute go around will get stepped on by another transmission. Don't issue conflicting clearances. Then if someone doesn't get the message at least they're on a path that won't cause problems for a few minutes.

[@cecilboatwright3555]

I have to disagree with your statement that she was "waiting to get separation on other departing traffic." (I was tower ATC for 30 years, with my first 4 years just up the road from Lindberg, at Montgomery Field). With successive airliner departures, unless a departure is departing behind a heavy jet, the controller can practically clear a departure for takeoff just as soon as the first airliner crosses the end of the runway (by the time the second departure gets rolling and lifts off, you WILL have the required separation off the departure end), especially if the controller uses a minimum of 15 degrees departure heading divergence. From the information you have presented here, it more appears that she put SWA in position behind the arriving Delta jet (called "shooting the gap" between arrivals) that she gave exit and taxi instructions to just after putting SWA in position. One thing we CANNOT tell from the information here is whether or not SWA had a traffic flow time that she was ALSO trying to hit (it is not unusual AT ALL in the San Diego terminal area to have traffic flow release times that must be complied with to other terminal areas, ESPECIALLY to the LA terminal area or San Francisco/Oakland or PHX terminal areas), and I say this because the NORMAL way a controller "shoots the gap" is to "line up and wait" the departure JUST AS SOON as the arrival crosses the landing threshold, give the arrival their instructions for clearing the runway, and then JUST AS ABSOLUTELY AS SOON AS the arrival is crossing the runway side stripe on its way to clearing that intersection's hold bars, you clear the traffic in position for takeoff with the necessary departure instructions. In this instance, though, SHE WAITED to clear SWA (which ABSOLUTELY should have happened after clearing Alaska 772 to land) and went to a MUCH less urgent task of amending the NUMBER FOUR FOR DEPARTURE's clearance!! So she is either VERY inexperienced (which she doesn't SOUND like she is) and she just let herself get distracted with a TOTALLY low-priority task (amending that clearance, which IS a tendency for inexperienced or training controllers) OR she was waiting for a minute to hit a flow control time for SWA and just let the arrival get too close. She then had to hold on to the Citation ON HER FREQUENCY so she could COORDINATE ITS UNPLANNED MISSED APPROACH (which is a REQUIREMENT) via voice line with the Socal departure controller, because he was EXPECTING to see the SWA airplane coming off the airport next. She is REQUIRED to make that coordination BEFORE she can switch the Citation. The biggest critique item I would give her (other than DO NOT DO ANYTHING ELSE until you clear the SWA airplane!!!) would be to MORE POSITIVELY BREAK the transmission with the departure clearance amendment and MORE POSITIVELY and CLEARLY issue the go-around and missed approach instruction to the Citation....as it happened, she saw her mistake happening in mid-sentence of the clearance amendment and just issued the "missed approach" at the end of the aborted clearance amendment, so she ended up having to go back to the Citation a second time to tell him to go around. SHE SCREWED UP, but she still stayed calm (which also, to me, indicates that she is an experienced controller). Also, the fact that SWA had to wait TEN MINUTES before departing to me indicates that the controllers probably had to get a new flow release time, since they missed the initial window by making them taxi clear of the runway (she gets them turned right around where they had exited...SWA SHOULD have been the next departure if there was no flow window to hit). Another "rule" thing that allows controllers to "shoot the gaps" and have multiple guys cleared to land with airplanes in position and holding is a concept called "anticipated separation." It is addressed specifically about issuing takeoff clearances in FAAH 7110.65 para 3-9-5 and with reference to landing clearances in para 3-10-6, but you will hear controllers talk a LOT about the CONCEPT of 'anticipating separation' when issuing clearances.

[@ripvw6184]

Also a retired controller with 30+ in. This is the correct take. As mentioned, line up and wait is most commonly used to "load" the runway while a previously arriving aircraft is still on it. I did this literally thousands of times in my career without incident. It is an extremely valuable tool when working in a high volume terminal environment. Without it, spacing on final would need to be increased to allow for longer departure times. I could write a novel about the staffing shortage in ATC but not sure how much it factored in here. The controller simply allowed herself to get distracted with a low priority task (clearance reroute) and lost situational awareness. Controllers, like everyone else, are human and make errors....especially in a dynamic environment like a busy tower. Any controller (or pilot) that says they haven't made potentially serious mistakes during their career is just not telling the truth.

[@todortodorov940]

To me *anticipating separation* is a fancier wording for: *if everything goes as planned, we will be anticipating no incidents or accidents*

[@cecilboatwright3555]

That's pretty much exactly what it is. In truth, that concept is in the bedrock of Aviation itself, otherwise not a single airplane would ever leave the hangar.@@todortodorov940

[@chrisstromberg6527]

Pilots perspective here. I've sat at the end of that runway waiting for takeoff, while Delta slow rolls it to the end and then ceremoniously drags their feet to exit the runway. She could very well have been waiting on Delta for separation. I agree poorly timed clearance, but the Citation Pilots failed here as well. Unless the guy in front of me is 3/4 of the way down the runway by time I am below 500', I'm going around, it's not gonna work!

[@johnnyneverletmedown53]

Good on ya Cec. Pretty sure that you Never "SCREWED UP" as you state boldly, in your career or your life. What a cool guy you must be to be around.... Oh, wait, no one is... The point that Juan is trying to make here is totally lost on you, you just go looking for someone to 'blame'. Top effort sport. Coz you NEVER did screw up, right? You are above it all, on another level altogether.

[@On-Our-Radar-24News]

Juan, great reporting. I fear we are just one more incident away from a total catastrophe. I have flown in and out of KSAN many times and you dont have visual of the beginning of the runway until you are almost ready to touch down due to the high retaining wall and jet blast deflectors. Thank god that the runway monitoring equipment was working and able to warn the controller. I also think the Citation Jet should have elected to go around a lot sooner then he did.

[@nobodysbusiness4130]

I didnt know that about KSAN. Maybe that explains why they didn't execute the go around sooner.

[@DrDisconnect666]

@@nobodysbusiness4130he didn’t tell that the conversation was cut off so no one got that call

[@UncleNoble]

I have a hard time believing the wall/JBDs blocked his view of a 737…

[@surebrah]

Thanks for talking about ATC staffing, it's an issue at almost every facility.

[@eloisebrynlee]

Wouldn’t the Citation see the SWA on the TCAS in the cloud?

[@jamescollier3]

maybe we can send 50 billion to Ukraine or pass an record setting inflation reduction bill

[@bearowen5480]

​@@eloisebrynleemaybe, maybe not. Does TCAS operate when the interrogated aircraft is on the ground? I don't think so. Otherwise at busy airports with many aircraft taxiing, the TCAS receivers would be receiving a cacophony of traffic alerts and resolution alerts (TAs and RAs) in each individual aircraft's cockpit. It would never work. Answered my own question! Sorry, I retired from my airline career in 2005.

[@eloisebrynlee]

@@bearowen5480 Thank you for your clarification though! 🙂

[@ShovelheadMatt]

Correct. But the NTI is pushing new trainees through, naturally making shit controllers that are a fucking danger to the NAS.

[@aristhought]

Thank you for a clear headed and objective analysis of this incident. A lot of comments on that Vasaviation video immediately blaming the tower controller when the root issue is ATC staffing and work overload on controllers.

[@RichFreeman]

I'd say the regulation that allowed this practice in the first place is a bigger problem. Don't clear three planes onto one runway at the same time. This shouldn't be about being about to juggle 1000 lives successfully. There is no good reason to take these risks. And, yes, I'm aware that tens of thousands of people are subjected to this risk every day and we haven't killed too many of them yet...

[@aristhought]

@@RichFreeman Yes I agree. The staffing issues as well as the regulation - the fact that it's not allowed in other countries should say something. On its own it might seem "passably acceptable" but I can definitely see it as one crucial factor in a chain of other otherwise mundane coincidences that leads to a terrible accident someday.

[@shooter2055]

What a cluster! Been an aviator for fifty years but I'll risk derailment on AMTRAK next trip. :-(

[@tonyferrari6917]

“Pilots are RESPONSIBLE to maintain SITUATIONAL AWARENESS at all times.” “This is a result of over worked understaffed ATC controllers” Well said Juan. 👏👏👏

[@dashriprock4308]

Don't assume anything.

[@cheebahjones420]

Really appreciate your constant reminder for pilots to own their airspace and not just blindly follow requests. Use your noggin and go around if it looks like things aren't as you expected.

[@TheAussiePipe]

Juan is bang on re the landing clearances in the rest of the world. Being based in Australia I have always been amazed that ATC in America can legally clear multiple aircraft on final to land on the same runway or a runway that is currently occupied. Just seems to be a recipe for disaster.

[@thebigitchy]

They can always cancel landing or takeoff clearance... And the pilots can always go around on their own volition.

[@i1alder]

@@thebigitchy but then what value does the phrase "cleared to land" even provide? False comfort? Why even bother with saying the words?

[@todortodorov940]

@@thebigitchy Not 100% true. ATC *may* always cancel the clearance, but that doesn't mean that they will always sucsee. Communication problems, for example somebody talking and blocking the airways will prevent the ATC from issuing new instructions. Then the only thing that can prevent disaster is the landing aircraft being able to detect the problem and go around. This is naive. It's basically saying; Fly and land as you wish, but *don't crash* into others.

[@dashriprock4308]

Trust, but verify.@@i1alder

[@Jack3md]

Having followed airports in the U.S. like ATL and ORD(the busiest in the world) they do it without incident, and they sure know how to keep the planes flowing. It’s something that’s been done for a long time now and I’m not certain that is an issue here. Especially since those airports have well over 2,000 movements daily, they know how to get planes off and on the ground safely without incident.

[@KeepinItCrispy]

These videos make me so anxious, I don’t know why I keep watching them. But seriously, thanks Juan for explaining everything so clearly with good graphics. Longtime VAS fan too!

[@dashriprock4308]

That was not the time or place to advise of an altitude change amendment. It should be understood that confusion may resort plus unnecessary talking on the tower freq. She should not have accepted telling SWA an altitude change was needed on departure. It would be very distracting with that many aircraft on final. Ground should have been used instead, especially when things are IFR and tight.

[@chrisstromberg6527]

Citation Pilots are to blame here as well for not going around on their own.@@dashriprock4308

[@dutchpilotguy]

As a tower controller myself, my concern is the preoccupation with the task of amending the SID of an uninvolved aircraft; and the use of landing clearances on initial contact. We can apply rationale with respect to workload from a human factors perspective, but this is purely a lapse in priority judgement. As far as the altitude amendment goes, as a tower controller, I view this as no different than a new heading - it is merely an amendment. The issue is how it sucked the controller’s attention. Simply put: the controller forgot to depart Southwest.

[@aerofreak2053]

Easy to miss the way southwest planes tend to blend in with the background 😂😂

[@mgregory3777]

Another fine job, Juan. Since you're using Heathrow as an example, I think most domestic pilots would be amazed at the way the LHR tower and approach approach controllers can manage so many takeoffs and landings. Their skill at putting multiple aircraft onto the takeoff runway in close succession allows them great flexibility. Oh, and they're really, really good. M

[@mustangtg]

Blancolirio and VAS Aviation...always my go-to's for aviation insight.

[@alantoon5708]

Fortunately, not all of the holes in the cheese lined up. On September 25, 1978, they did. Remember PSA Flight 182?

[@Kaipeternicolas]

Juan "Line up and Wait" isn't the problem. It's the crazy understaffed ATC we have since 2020/2021. It's been tough flying around here with ATC being constantly overworked.

[@2011blueman]

The clearance handling should have definitely been done by a different controller on a different frequency. A big issue with the understaffing is the age discrimination that the FAA has so that you have to be in your 20s to be hired as a controller.

[@kevinpereira7864]

Agreed, i'm 34 and would make the change to be a controller if I could.

[@sturvinmurvin9408]

@@kevinpereira7864 Late 30's. Same.

[@PeriMedic1]

What the heck? Federal law enforcement can be hired up to 37. You need 20 years to retirement. Do they not want 50-something ATC?

[@ChuckMahon]

I believe 55 is mandatory retirement for ATC.

[@gungadinn]

I'll take my chances on an experienced older comptroller than someone that just graduated. The mandatory retirement could easily be pushed out by performing bi-annual EKG's to determine the condition of the heart. The FAA is currently looking at increasing the mandatory retirement age out to 67, still performing the EKG's as a health screen.

[@gordonbruce2416]

Juan, you should look at the single runway operations at London Gatwick as a better comparison. The key difference in the UK and probably the rest of the world is we are usually only cleared to the approach procedure and if there is conflict with departing traffic we are directed to “Continue the Approach”. The USA if I may observe is way to keen to give a landing clearance when it is not safe. In your example the Alaskan aircraft had 1 departure and 1 arrival ahead so how on Earth was the runway clear for them to land.

[@martyhill8342]

Blanco, its a fine compliment that tower controllers are watching and reviewing your presentations. Congrats on work well done!

[@paulsherman51]

F.O. Browne is a national treasure. Skies are safe and flying fearless because of him. We salute you, Blancolirio!

[@rumpstatefiasco]

ECHOES OF HORROR as I remember seeing the black column of smoke from PSA Flight 182. So glad that it’s only echoes this time. Everyone in San Diego knew someone who lost someone.

[@kurtkensson2059]

I remember seeing the smoke being carried towards the ocean that day by the Santa Ana winds.

[@richardells57]

My brother just retired as a controller at St. Pete Clearwater at age 56. He didn't want to but had to. The last few years his duties in the tower were mostly training. He told me on a number of occasions that the quality of controllers coming out of FAA training was far lower than when he graduated. Many would wash out within the first year. Sad but in my humble opinion, younger generations never learn problem solving on their own. Too much reliance is on technology solving it for them. My feeling is there will be a horrible accident at some point and the answer will be to improve/increase technology in order to compensate for controllers with poor skills.

[@bearowen5480]

Dan Gryder on his podcast has emphatically made the same point recently in respect to the AA flight that crossed the active runway without clearance as a Delta flight was rolling for takeoff. Apparently in that case it was not controller error, but confusion in American's cockpit. Inexperience may have been a factor. Theres no question that system safety has deteriorated, and the margin for error is getting paper thin. FAA's management has its head in the sand, and the Administration is shoving this DEI crap down the pipe preventing pure hiring by merit. I think that if you're right that there's going to be a terrible mishap, the fatassed bureaucrats will cover up their complicity, and totally shirk their responsibility for it by blaming everyone but themselves. It's the standard operating procedure for government these days

[@bsmith1164]

Spot on. Why the hell is the FAA turfing good controllers at age 56? I'm 63, started at age 21, and am working tower on contract in Canada. We have the same staffing issues. I won't work much longer, but at least I got to help out for a while longer.

[@SteamCrane]

Seems it might be better to move out of the hot seat to admin or training at 56 instead of the years of experience being lost.

[@mmoly-cj4bd]

Scary stuff. Don't want to take a flight anywhere. I think a no-miss is headed our way.

[@biggianthead2016]

While most officials blame the pandemic for the ATC shortages (and it certainly was a contributor), decisions made regarding new recruits about 10 years ago is the larger factor. Instead of bringing on those who trained privately for the chance to enter official ATC training, it was decided to hire almost literally off the street for the program. Many of the latter washed out because they were looking just for a job, while many of those who wanted to become ACT's had to go in other industries because the FAA would not hire them. This is an policy induced problem. And was avoidable to a large extent.

[@forsakencitizen2664]

25yr center controller here. The FAA excels at bad policies, among many other things.

[@l.antoinetteanderson3736]

Increasingly (as you seem to allude to), literally all corporations have gone under the (anesthetic) sway of "political correctness" with its $$$tentacles of influence. Yes, I think a creep for decades.

[@x--.]

@@forsakencitizen2664 Congress not doing their job.

[@prussiaaero1802]

I think it's the bean counters who pressure management and tell them what they can have as far as X number of trainees per year. Management says no, we need two X or three X, just to stay afloat. NOPE! you get one X.

[@slates010]

Has zero to do with OTS hires. Zero. Most of them are good. Some ATC that went to school for it. Guess what... not good controllers. You're disillusioned

[@caseyj8210]

Like you Juan, I’m a 121 operator and completely agree with your assessment on the overtaxed ATC system. One of the most dangerous developments I’ve seen over the past couple of years is the single-controller-multiple-radios scenario. One airport in particular that worries me is Houston Hobby. One controller often has ground (which includes ramp operation), and tower. HOU has converging runways where arrivals and departure use crossing runways. On top of that, you have taxiing aircraft crossing runways. So much opportunity for blocked comm, miscommunication, etc. Be vigilant out there!!

[@4d4Spl]

Native San Diegan here, I always thought we should have taken Miramar after the Navy left and before the Marines moved in. It's more central to our population now, with easy access.

[@geraldmurphy7669]

Yes, it's been obvious for 30 years that San Diego should move the airport to Miramar. Where is the leadership?

[@timk.9827]

Need another person doing clearance delivery for sure.

[@jeredh]

Thanks for what you do Juan!

[@aliepikman6790]

I admire your work. Niche market. I fly domestic a lot. Many times controllers do clearance, ground, tower even departure. That’s a big threat.

[@kenkellar2246]

Thank you Juan Browne for bringing my local airport snafu,September is memorial for PSA 182 and the Cessna 170 or 172 collision back in 1978… We have one of the busiest single runway airports around…

[@jonart9160]

Thank you for deciphering this for us laymen. There is no way anyone not in the aviation industry could understand what they were saying.

[@robertlangham9028]

I've been a UK ATCO for 25+ years working high intensity single runway operations. This controller doesn't sound overloaded, although only she can know that. However, she does appear to lose situational awareness due to a minor task distraction. We've all had this happen at some point in our job and it's completely disorientating. I hope she recovers from the experience without too much damage. To me, there are so many factors at play but one of them is why on earth did the Citation pilot not bin it earlier? Probably because of expectation bias. They'd been "cleared to land". The whole "Number X, cleared to land" thing is bonkers. Why not have "Number X cleared for takeoff" whilst you're at it? It'll surely speed things up... Having loosely defined landing procedures is not a good idea. Technology will not always save you. Don't let operator pressures force your decisions either. Safe. Orderly. Expeditious. Stay safe.

[@jonahtaivalkoski322]

I thing the Citation pilot was always going around, based on the tone of his voice. I think he delayed it to prove a point.

[@alscustomerservice187]

I had a very similar incident occur at KGJT last month. I was cleared to land (a C-414) on the active runway during VMC, while on short final a GulfStream was cleared onto the runway for departure. I believe the controller simply forgot about us. I queried the controller with a position report of a1.5 mile finale and he seemed unconcerned for just a moment and then apparently got the picture back. He immediately "asked" If I would prefer an adjacent runway for landing, At this point I took over the decision making process and advised that I was going to execute a 360 degree turn for spacing which he then approved. The landing proceeded without further incident. I am a former controller so I have an insight into the processes involved and I agree with your assessment. The ATC system is over worked and under staffed. I believe incidents like this are going to continue to occur until a remedy is provided.

[@Gnag]

Here in Europe, if such thing happens they say: "Expect a late landing clearance!" So you know there is a high chance of go around.

[@realulli]

I think you missed a few things. I think there was no previous departing traffic, there was that Delta jet that was just clearing the runway. She should have launched SWA immediately after issuing the taxi instructions to Delta (I hope he was clear of the runway at that point), then issued the amendments for the other aircraft in the queue. Then, nothing would have happened. I think she got distracted by the amendments coming in and forgot about SWA. I think she was overworked the whole time, she was manning clearance delivery, ground and tower frequencies and I don't really want to know how long she was working since her last break. When I was in ATC in Germany in the early 90s, we had the rule, in normal operation, anyone in the control room was allowed a maximum of two hours, followed by at least a 1h break. (I wasn't a controller, I was just the kid mounting the control strips in plastic carriers and delivering them to the controllers). Abnormal operation would be e.g. a computer failure, requiring us to create control strips by hand, getting flight plans by phone, etc. - that was an all hands on deck operation, while the technicians worked on getting the computer systems working again as quickly as possible.

[@leroycharles9751]

I agree.

[@DaveG-qd6ug]

*THIS !

[@davidpeterson7197]

Did you happen to hear about the UAL captain (age 63 and Denver based) that "reached his breaking point" and took an axe to the employee parking gate, captured on video, of course? Two persons subdued him and he was arrested. Can you imagine what his previous 24 hours of work must have been like to reach that point? ADS UPDATE: There were finally TWO ads in the ad tracker for this episode.

[@chrisschack9716]

At about 3:00 you state the need to achieve separation from the preceding departure. It's true enough but may not be the case here. DAL2895 just landed and was still on the runway (told to exit B8 - not B1 as the caption stated at 5:48) after the SWA aircraft was given LUAW.

[@mooorecowbell4222]

Great job the way Juan explaines ATC and clearances and everything else

[@markmclaughlin2690]

I’m interested in aviation but am really ignorant of it. The way you explain things makes it easy for me to understand and get be interested in it. Thank you for the content!

[@timmckenna210]

What if an aircraft has an engine problem or some other thing on final that causes it to lose altitude rapidly and needs every inch of runway including where that aircraft is sitting?

[@RichFreeman]

That wouldn't really be a problem for the landing aircraft. They can go around on one engine. However, an engine failure might cause the departing aircraft to not get out of the way as planned. Really we shouldn't be issuing conflicting clearances. There is no good reason to have these planes all pointed at the same runway at the same time.

[@BillySugger1965]

Just because it’s strictly legal, that doesn’t make it wise or appropriate. Ending up with 100 feet of separation is *not* being protected, by automation or otherwise! And it was the citation pilot who raised this issue before the surface surveillance system resulted in ATC action. The legal limitations on clearing three aircraft to the same runway at the same time were not breached here, which makes the legal limitations inadequate to protect aviators and passengers. And Juan, thanks for pointing out that this is not allowed outside the US. I’ve been saying this for ages. If it’s not safe, the system should not allow it. If that restricts flight movements to preserve safety, then so be it. Maybe *that* will incentivise the aviation industry to fund the required ATC resources. People *should not* have to die in the inevitable forthcoming accidents to make the point.

[@robburgundy9539]

Indeed. I was thinking, why wait for the go around call. Just go around if 500 feet is breached.

[@gottesma]

I wonder if the citation couldn't see southwest because the clouds were so low? You'd think they would have just gone missed first and asked questions later.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly! If the Businessjet would have crashed into the Southwest-737 it would have made no difference for all People on board of both Aircrafts that it was perfectly legal that the ATC putted the Boeing in front of Bizzjet and then let it sit there.

[@WWPlaysHoldem]

The 100 feet is on the pilot who saw the aircraft on the runway. It was obvious to any casual observer that there is a plane sitting on the runway where you have been cleared to land. The aircraft should have gone around at 500 feet!

[@dt10825]

No, it's not always obvious that a plane is sitting on the runway from the air. Like others mentioned there may have been a cloud layer obscuring visibility, though I can't comment further as there is not enough information.

[@geofiggy]

That was scary JB, whether legal or not. Thanks! You're exceptional. Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏼🖖🏼

[@RichFreeman]

Exactly. I don't care if it is legal. It simply isn't safe and I believe it is illegal in most countries for this reason. What if the citation had a radio failure on short final? You can't rely on being able to tell planes to go around. You should rely on clearance limits to separate aircraft. If they didn't issue a landing clearance then it would have gone around without further instruction. If they held the departing aircraft short there would be no conflict. Both are better ways to handle this.

[@NicolaW72]

That was one more very critical situation in a short time in the US. It seems indeed that the ATC - at least in the large Airports - is understaffed and overworked. So the dangerous practice of giving multiple clearances at the same time should be abolished and therefore the traffic equalized. Otherwise the risk of a really Big Crash with a huge number of Fatalities is tremendous. The Lesson should be learned before something like that happens. Thank you very much for picking this Incident up!👍

[@aviator267]

From what I see it’s was the citation pilot who alerted the controller not the system.

[@Ztbmrc1]

Here in Europe the TWR would say to the approaching planes: "you are nr 1" (or 2 or 3 depending on the position in the queue on the ILS). Eventually every plane gets a clear to land when the runway is clear.

[@SeanAwning-er4ww]

Thank you, sir, for appreciating that ATCs are overworked, and for explaining why US rules and regs set up these near-misses.

[@28th_St_Air]

@1:08 I know she could not say this, but for the SW pilot’s “Reasoning?” question I would have enjoyed an audio insert of Sister Mary Elephant screaming “BECAUSE I SAID SOOOOOOO!!!!” For all you youngsters, you’ll have to google the reference. 😊

[@bw162]

Met a retired ATC controller from the West Coast. He said a major problem is the retention of new controllers that, prior to diversity directives, would have been cut. But now they can’t fire them and can’t let them have a shift without a 2nd dedicated controller to watch them. This is not going to end well in the aviation industry, military, medical and many other safety and performance critical services.

[@snotnosewilly99]

Tropical Storm Hilary to hit San Diego this weekend. ( Very rare for San Diego) I thought Hilary was retired....but, "She's Back", and the old girl is creating more problems.

[@leroycharles9751]

The SW crew would have been surprised to see that Citation land father down at the displaced threshold. I remember when the FAA was surprised to see that parking garage mysteriously appear sticking up on the final causing them to raise the minimums and create that displaced threshold.

[@tommieders]

Thx Juan, well explained! I was wondered about this regulation. BG from Overseas where you can land with the runway for your own. 😂

[@PoasLodge]

Departed on SW flight from Houston Hobby a few weeks back and we sat on the runway for almost a full minute before they started rolling. As a pilot sitting in the back who knows how busy that airspace is... I was NOT comfortable just sitting there. This is why!!

[@zLigHt44]

That's how I feel and I'm in my backyard.

[@applec2400]

Clearances can wait!!

[@DangerBooger]

Controller sounded as if she had no idea, before and after the incident. I thought she was going to say to the SWA pilot '....behind you...DUH !'

[@kevinheard8364]

great video, as usual.... thanks so much

[@terrymoffett6541]

Scary situation and completely AVOIDABLE - Thank you JB for quickly bringing this to light. Only thing scarier is probably how OFTEN this happens and No one is Learning from it. FAA ?????

[@marcel_max]

the whole world works on the "less staff with more working hours for them" principle. Having stuff and power is what runs this planet.

[@andresgarcia7757]

Great assessment Juan!

[@Mpr47276]

We can reflect back on the similar situation earlier this year in Austin, TX where a situationally aware FedEx crew averted disaster by initiating their own go-around in an even harrier set-up involving even lower ceilings/visibility and more dubious ATC handling and a curious decision on the SWA crew in IMC to accept the “traffic on three mile final” takeoff clearance to begin with. Seems like a bad trend line emerging…

[@RichFreeman]

The crews have the least situational awareness of anybody. Sure, they need to do their best to keep ATC from killing them, but the system shouldn't be designed to rely on busy pilots keeping a mental model of every plane on the frequency because the person with the radar screen isn't doing that for them.

[@mychannelnotyours123]

Austin was much more stupidity. Austin has multiple parallel runways, yet the idiots were using the same one for landings and take offs in dense fog.

[@phillipartweger9547]

this is also a perfect setup for a loss of separation if the plane going around doesn’t get his call in (blocked) and the plane on the runway gets cleared for takeoff and goes underneath.. we have some very high volume of traffic places in europe too, brussels, amsterdam, london and it works there without getting planes cleared to land while the runway is occupied

[@TheBeardedGentleman]

That situation happened not too long ago, didn't it? Plane on Go-Around and the departing plane underneath almost pulled right up into them? Might have been Austin?

[@DG-vf1kb]

Thought of USAir 1493 and Skywest 5569 at LAX on 02-01-1991 as I watched this. Fortunately, this one ended well.

[@mikepennington8088]

The problem here is that the automation is supposed to be a backstop in case something is missed. The current rules make it an integral part of normal operations. The failure of the automated system is thus elevated to a first-order failure. This means that tragedy is only averted if the automation works as expected and that the controller reacts to the alerts in a timely manner and that the affected air crews respond similarly.

[@NicolaW72]

Indeed, exactly.

[@RockandRollWoman]

Excellent analysis.

[@brianhaygood183]

That is the trend in any environment. The more safety mechanism that are in place the riskier the behavior tends to be. Often due to laziness and incompetence being tolerated.

[@bernieschiff5919]

This would mean failure of the automation could result in a tragic accident at some point, I agree 100%, we are rolling the dice here.

[@RockandRollWoman]

@brianhaygood183 Very few people understand that possibility, and I have stopped explaining it because it causes bizarre arguments with people who don't want to think. The phenomenon doesn't seem to be the same for everything. Some innovations do improve safety (windshield wipers, air bags, baby locks for cabinets) but an unguarded rail crossing is not always more dangerous than one with lights. Equipment failure is one issue. If people are relying on the crossing gate coming down and it doesn't, they may miss an oncoming train that they would have seen if there had been no gate. Then you have folks who gun it through a gate that is closing, or drive around the guard arm. Riskier behavior due to poor judgment, also called incompetence. Exactly the scenario you mentioned. I had to grapple with risk management problems at work, and it's a challenge to get it right.

[@tdave1234]

It's like Oshkosh with part 121 aircraft in the mix. "Citation land long". I've lived in the SD area for almost 30 years and understand the love that the locals have for the location. If traffic isn't too bad, you can be in Little Italy in about 7 minutes. There have been proposals to move operations to North Island, Miramar, the beach at Camp Pendleton, the Imperial County desert, floating off the La Jolla coast, etc. None of them gain any traction. If there were a major accident, I think there would be pressure to cut back on the flight load. Then the locals will be taking buses to Orange County.

[@gsdalpha1358]

You read my mind! I guess there's no yellow dot on the Lindberg runway to aim for eh.

[@JamesMcGillis]

Are you old enough to remember the PSA disaster at Lindbergh Field? The future disaster you fear has already happened. I would not fly in or out of that airport to "save my life".

[@gsdalpha1358]

@@JamesMcGillis I remember. The picture of the crashing 727 on fire is haunting. Was ATC found to be at fault? Iirc, pilots assumed the private plane was behind them.

[@JeffreyBue_imtxsmoke]

I really love how you explain this stuff JB. Another excellent video.

[@miaohmya92]

Any time we position and hold it makes me anxious in the back of my head, because you can't see what's coming.

[@davidmerwin7763]

Great job Juan. So true about the ATC.

[@sizzelot]

The Citation pilot was probably worried she was gonna launch Southwest right as he started rhe go around and end up like another Austin situation.

[@joecritch143]

The Citation pilot should have called the go around. Thats why the controller states “one departing, cleared to land”. It’s letting you know to be prepared for a go around if that departing aircraft doesn’t get rolling in time. You are the Pilot, call it!!!!!

[@RichFreeman]

I mean, why have controllers if we're going to trust pilots to notice other planes visually? Sure, in this case they should have taken initiative, but you can't rely on that. For all we know the citation pilot got a private pilot license a few months ago.

[@markb.1259]

Thank You Juan!!

[@leroycharles9751]

Juan, another close call at Boston Logan today also. We are getting closer and closer to a collision.

[@RalphEllis]

In England, no landing clearance can be given until the runway is vacant, except for Gatwick. At Gatwick you can be cleared to “land after”, but only if the aircraft taking off is more than 2,000m down the runway. So in England, the Citation on approach would just be given a “continue”. R

[@eloisebrynlee]

Yes.. thank you. I assume this was the circumstance I was in as pax recently. Mine was MEL in Australia. As pax it was still hair-raising. This was at night but not the first time I’ve departed an airport like this. The wake turbulence when you are waiting on the taxiway for clearance after the landing aircraft is a bit awesome though. 😯

[@Fig330]

San Diego - 48-52 movements per hour. Gatwick - 55 movements per hour. Both single runway airports. Time for USA to stop issuing clearances based on hopes and prayers!

[@Jack3md]

@@Fig330 Based on hopes and prayers? Seriously? The whole clearances thing has been done for how many decades at the busiest airports in the world like ATL and ORD, etc without incident. Both doing over 2,000 departures and arrivals daily. But it’s time *now* to make changes?? No, you need to fix what else is the issue here.

[@carmenallocco6497]

Thanks for the information very informative. Feel sorry for the overworked controllers, good for the pilot on short final he already was aware of the situation. ATC folks need help with more people. The federal government throws so much money at airports that do not need the funds but endanger the lives of or citizens by understaffing major busy airports.

[@Peter-55]

From the 🇬🇧, IMHO the only truly safe option is for a controller to only give a landing clearance when the runway is clear of all traffic. I am a retired professional pilot with 46 years experience, both military and commercial, with my flying experience mostly in Europe, Africa, Middle East, and the old soviet states. The only place I came across this rule was in France, and I was always on heightened alert for the approaches, ready to go around if there was any doubt.

[@Indy1977TX]

Thank you for the great explanation, Brownie. Saw this before but it was not as clear as it is now after your wisdom was shared.

[@bluangl9wingman]

Why would the Citation continue to land knowing there is a AC in position for takeoff? Citation should have initiated a goaround much sooner on their own.

[@Halli50]

You would NEVER see this situation allowed to develop in Europe or elsewhere. Overworked and understaffed ATC, made worse by administrative pressure to keep traffic moving at all costs is a disaster waiting to happen!

[@turbofanlover]

I mean, that's just too close, IMO. Great vid, Juan...as usual.

[@markg4459]

Well done as usual Jaun. So we're relying on technology to save the day with an undermanned ATC system. A bit worrying. What could possibly go wrong?

[@tomtheplummer7322]

Yeah, saw it on VAS earlier

[@markholm7050]

Recently, I experienced San Diego Lindbergh as a passenger for the first time. I arrived and departed a few days apart. It is bluntly apparent that the airport is too small in every respect for the passenger volume it handles. It is also plainly obvious, even to a passenger looking out of the terminal windows, that the space is too small for the volume of aircraft operations. This report makes clear that the volume of aircraft operations demands a second runway, so that planes do not have to be landing on the departing runway. There is obviously no room for a second runway at the current location.

[@CalPil0t]

You are correct. I'm retired airline captain, many trips into SAN airport. The entire area is oversaturated. I suspect there may be some additional staffing assigned as a result of this incident. I hope so.

[@LBG-cf8gu]

Leave MCRD alone!

[@ReflectedMiles]

I don't think there is any place to put one. The approach to the existing main runway in a west flow is already notorious for coming down right over the high-rise buildings downtown. They probably don't want two runways doing that. There are also US Navy ops in the immediate area from Miramar, North Island, etc., as well as quite busy GA operations to and from Montgomery Field which is just south of Miramar. If they are going to change this significantly, I'm afraid it will require a complete relocation, and even if the funding, commitment, and planning for that could all come together, the question is still where in the world to go that would accommodate the scale required, the precision glidepaths free of obstacles well away from the new site, etc. I think the real issue in this case, at least based on the recording, is that the controller started paying attention to an amended altitude assignment for someone who was still on the ground. That's a great job for clearance delivery or ground control, not taking local-control's attention unless the aircraft is already being put onto the runway. I would also be interested in knowing whether she had any help--a supervisor plugged in anywhere and watching, etc.

[@michaelgarrow3239]

So,,, you are not a pilot and don’t play one in a movie..

[@davidedickjr]

@@michaelgarrow3239 I've lived in San Diego since the mid-70's and have had a front row inside seat for political/air industry generation-long efforts to resolve San Diego overcrowded airport. The commenter's points are spot on. Your comment - is a cheap one. Go away.

[@ATCS-ApproachCon12]

Good analysis

[@jaym8257]

They need a new airport in San Diego.

[@rd4660]

Not gonna happen. Failed at the ballot box and the Marine Corps ain't giving up MCAS Miramar. 6:53 Plus the city is going to invest billions in infrastructure improvements at SAN in the next few years.

[@BoloMalboro]

That's a no go in EU

[@ProctorsGamble]

Ooh 😯 that’s a bad airport approach to be that close!

[@xplayman]

Obviously the tower controller should not have prioritized giving the amended clearance over the traffic in front of her, but I believe the FAA is slacking with staffing our controllers. At off hours this is all too common for controllers being overworked. A tower controller dealing with air traffic has no business issuing clearance instructions in an airspace like San Diego. I remember feeling for the controller at Allentown when I was doing night landings with another commercial student. The controller was one guy doing Clearance Delivery, Ground, Tower, and even Approach with the airport under construction so half of their taxiways adjacent to the runway were closed (plus they were closing one of the runways shortly). This is insanity. We desperately need more controllers.

[@dewayneellis4118]

Interesting points of view on possible reasons why this happened. New controllers, not good-enough controllers (called 'weak-sticks'), understaffing, landing procedures with the right equipment, etc. I retired from ATC for a few years now, but I have had experience as a tower controller and a center controller. If you ask, most facilities will tell you they are understaffed, even if they are not. The older controllers will tell you their generation was better than the new ones- forgetting what they were like when they started. The procedures are constantly changing, sometimes by the day. The controller in question sounds to me like a person with experience, no quivering voice upon realizing the error. I may be wrong but I doubt it. She will not be fired, but should possibly receive some extra training on these exact procedures. This is a human factor, something the FAA cannot account for. My tower training is going on 40 years ago now, but wasn't there a paragraph in the 7110.65 that stated that departure clearances could not be issued over the local controllers frequency? Did they get rid of that? I believe it was there for this almost exact reason.

[@nobodysbusiness4130]

Thanks for the common sense.

[@RichFreeman]

Honestly, I think the biggest factor here is the last one discussed. Everybody wants to talk about why the controller was distracted and unable to juggle three conflicting clearances. I think the real question is why do we need to issue conflicting clearances in the first place? Too much emphasis on see and avoid. Hundreds of people could have died if the citation didn't go around. Automation could help here, but only if we stop this practice. A computer can't predict a collision a minute ahead of time when we consider it routine to weave traffic so closely.

[@reggierico]

Hi Juan! I might add that many, many of our controllers are new and fairly inexperienced. What do you think are going to be the consequences for this controller?

[@AaronHarberg]

Thanks Juan

[@deans178]

Before jumping to "overworked & understaffed" the FAA Manager for Lindberg Tower needs to look at how many controllers were there on duty, how many positions were they qualified to work, and out of that number, how many were "on break" not on position. Having retired from ATC from 1978 - 2015, there have been too many times where available controllers were on break leaving positions unmaned that could have been staffed, and suddenly, traffic complexity increases rapidly and the controller working more than 1 position or frequency is distracted from the number 1 priority: "Safe". After "Safe" comes efficient. This operation though questionably "legal" was neither safe nor efficient.

[@skycop56]

Agee 100%. Staffing was never an issue in my 30 yrs. Plenty of controllers and plenty of breaks too.

[@ripvw6184]

@@skycop56 You must have either been out of the business for quite a while or worked in low level facilities then. Last 7 or 8 years of my career (retired in 2021) were mandatory 6 day weeks and hold over OT most days. 7 positions in my area and some days we'd have 6 controllers. You do the math...not a lot of breaks going on. I'd like to say it was unique to my facility, but virtually every controller I know at an ATC 10 or higher is in the same boat.

[@daveluttinen2547]

Yikes. Poor SWA sitting there minding his own business getting buzzed by a Citation. I should think Clearance Delivery would be an active position during the day there. Her getting tangled up with a low priority amendment while conflicts are compounding in real time is not good prioritization. Glad everyone came out not the worse for wear except a bunch of fuel got burned up not through the fault of the pilots. Nice report, sir. Thank you.

[@gregorythompson5826]

SWA pilots should have been listening on frequency. Moreover the SWA pilots should have been proactive and started to vacate the runway. There is a serious work culture issue amongst pilots at SWA. This is not the first time SWA has been involved in near misses in the United States THIS year! There is no way I would entrust the lives of my nearest and dearest on a SWA flight.

[@skylerpage8778]

@@gregorythompson5826 you clearly aren't a pilot. save the armchair qb comments for a topic on which you have even an ounce of familiarity. this is 100% not on the SWA aircraft nor the Citation. This is an ATC breakdown of situational awareness, and, as Juan said, a likely highly overworked and fatigued controller. If anything, the second the Citation broke out of the 1100 foot cloud deck, he could have (likely should have) initiated the go around under his own fruition. Not continued toward the runway until the Controller called the go around for him. How about the Jetblue flight in Boston that was aware that the Learjet was lined up on an intersecting runway (as is common practice in Boston) and allowed their aircraft to get within less than 100 feet of the Lear which took off without clearance? are you going to boycott JetBlue as well?

[@Pylon5Productions]

@@gregorythompson5826 you can’t be serious

[@cpzmelbs]

​@@skylerpage8778there's a number of things that could have or should have been done differently in the minutes preceding this incident. I got the impression the Citation had a fair idea what was potentially occurring. I think its possible he had decided on a go-around before the instruction. There's 1 controller doing the role of 2 and he's been put into a shit spot with the possibility some comms were stepped on and missed. This was 100% on atc as you say, but follow that by saying the Citation should have done something else. I understand what you're saying, but as a counter to the OP (which I don't agree with) I don't quite understand the reasoning, first half in particular.. Just a quick final thought, there's quite a few careers both in and outside of aviation that gives credibility to someones words. Having to be a pilot is rather close minded