"Sandbox Good. Linear Bad."

Red Dead Redemption 2 is one of the best selling video games of all time, however since launch it has recieved a lot of criticism from the community because of it's restrictive game design, in this video I explain why a sandbox game and a story game has their pros and cons. At the end of the day, part of the reason Red Deads story is so good, is because Rockstar made you (the player) play it the way it was meant to be told.
#gaming #rockstargames #reddeadredemption

[@JarringSteak]

If rdr2 wasn't linear it wouldn't be as good as it is

[@channel45853]

that's what i think as well, linearity has value in games and to me, often makes games more memorable narritively

[@nathanaelnell2024]

“Let’s go bowling, Cousin”

[@channel45853]

A problem I have with nonlinear mission design is that it often makes the missions less memorable and more check off a list to me.

[@thenotorioustaha]

Yeah there needs to be a balance

[@BigBoy-ok3eg]

Best example is mgs v, gameplay is amazing and gives the player so much freedom but all the missions just blend together

[@wnnd6]

Yeah that's why I hate when people criticise games that have amazing missions over this. Both options are fine if the game is structured around them. Throwing in a Journal to have 5 quests halfway started wouldn't improve RDR2. I can have enough fun in the open world by myself or in side content.

[@Titan4K]

Breaking the immersion is the perfect way to describe it. For story heavy games specifically.

[@justajad2809]

I love you for accurately responding to that inception in open-ended game design.

[@XD-zi2sd]

8:05 Rockstar actually has the same idea as you here, and it can be seen in GTA online. You can see this development in their game design philosophy throughout the years. A great example of this is the differences between the Deliver EMP mission from the Humane Labs Raid, and the Disorganized Crime mission from the Cluckin Bell Farm Raid. Deliver EMP, the older mission, is a super strict and limiting stealth mission, and fails you for any mistake you make, which is alerting the guards. Disorganized Crime however, a mission released earlier this year, also involves stealth, but making a mistake prompts a tense sequence where you have to eliminate all traces of yourself. If you fail to do this, it can impact the rest of the heist. It's a way better solution that can give opportunities for freedom while also reasonably keeping the player in the narrative of the heist. I really hope we see this kind of solution in future Rockstar games. Not letting the player do anything, but also not failing them for everything. Just finding a creative solution that blends both options like you said

[@Ronuk1996]

Rockstar did alot of that with Manhunt. RDR2 has mix of differnt Types of game design.

[@gladosbutstupid8807]

Up until I played Red Dead Redemption II, my favorite game was Half-Life 2. And it is simply incredible how much freedom the game offers. The game offers an engaging and memorable story without the use of any cutscenes and control is never taken away from the player, with the exception of the first and last minute of the game and loading screens. Ultimately, it might be the most free game imaginable except in one aspect, it’s a linear game. There is no open world, no save files, no free roam, it’s going from point A to point B. You can’t make a save to go back to so you can influence the story in a different way, you just can’t. It’s still my second favorite game of all time and will probably stay there, but when I played Red Dead Redemption II for the first time, it felt amazing. I had no problem with the missions since they actually progressed the story. It’s what I think a Half-Life open world game would play like. Of course the constant mission failed screens are a bit annoying and a bit immersion breaking, but it was still so enjoyable. GTA IV DID have really only 2 instances where you could fail a mission, die, or a mission critical NPC or object dies or is destroyed. And while no mission failed screen appeared and instead you get a cutscene with another character shaming you, it ultimately feels more immersion breaking. So I get a cutscene saying a character dies, I go redo the mission and he’s… back? It doesn’t help the story and I don’t like it. I think GTA VI should have less mission failed screens, but shouldn’t have a cutscene since they honestly break immersion MORE and since they are so SO long.

[@iwtdl_]

8:27 What you said is pretty much similar to the GTAO mission "Disorganized Crime", where whatever you do affects the Cluckin' Bell Raid Farm Finale. So say if you accidently alert the cartel guards, the rest of them will be aware of your presence in the finale.

[@C9LD]

a slight theory I have is that some of the more recent GTAO missions (added in 2023 and up) are using experimental GTA VI mechanics, like having your actions alter the mission outcome or trying to balance missions between freedom and immersion so that rockstar can see what fans like and dont like and will try to implement the liked stuff into GTA VI while either polishing and improving or completely getting rid of disliked mechanics

[@Ronuk1996]

​@C9LD Well RDR2 has missions like that with many ways to solve them and others that are more linear. They are already great at open ended design issue is telling a great story and having unique missions that also give the player freedom.

[@TommyTonk]

If people want to play a non linear Rockstar games, they can just play GTA/RDR Online. Most online missions are just going to a location, killing a bunch of enemies, or getting a specific item, pretty much the exact same as GTA III in terms of design. They also try to avoid mission fails, so the only way to mess up is by destroying you objective or killing an ally. It's a lot of fun, but there isn't much of a narrative, and most of the missions are forgettable since its just the core gameplay over and over and over again. The most memorable online missions are the ones that are linear.

[@channel45853]

On point

[@Ramlin1210]

1:43 Lol you silly Justin

[@Dragono_]

I actually really like the linearity of RDR2 missions. I can get up to my shenanigans in freemode, but being *told* how the story plays out really immerses me. The story would have a lot less impact if you could do whatever you wanted in missions imo

[@Ronuk1996]

There are main story missions like that but I agree some missions like chapter 4 bank Robbery for example. I also agree in regards to open world in gives much more freedom then most open games.

[@wedoalittletrolling723]

story missions should be linear non story missions/stuff in the world and side-missions should be non-linear that say, you can still give the player some free options in story missions too

[@mildew4u]

Red dead is not a Bethesda game. They cant tell the story that they want to tell if you can do whatever you want in the missions

[@channel45853]

yeah, i feel that the levels being more open would take away from the story, even if it gives to the freedom of gameplay

[@Ronuk1996]

​@@channel45853They already have missions like that in RDR2 but those missions are less story focused.

[@GoogleUser000]

Thank you for this take! The obsession with sandbox games (which, IMO, in many cases has merged from many players' feel of nostalgia when they played Minecraft back in the simpler days) kinda ruins the market and forces many developers to turn everything into a sandbox even when its completely unnecessary. Since GTA IV and RDR1 Rockstar decided to focus on storytelling and cinematic experience rather than on sandbox, and I wish more people could appreciate this choice of direction before GTA VI comes out

[@cheemsg.i.7130]

6:55 Ain't no one find that switching the muzzle between Dutch and Micah to trigger the dialogues is super immersion breaking in this mission?Who tf does that irl?If I were Dutch getting pointed at all of a sudden,I would've pulled the trigger at John already

[@talpatv512]

I do think it's preety lame to fail a mission unless i get killed by an enemy imo, especially the "you abandoned x character" fail is annoying because i always wanna check every detail and the game forces me into being fast paced

[@ssjcarbon]

rdr2 without linear missions is like minecraft without infinite sized worlds...

[@lorekeeper2611]

Honestly, I don’t even mind the linear missions because I’m left to my own devices otherwise. So there’s that balance, I guess. Like I know going into the mission that I’ll be railroaded, but it’s a good story so I’ll deal with it until I get back to shenanigans in the open world.

[@Matias-dr3ys]

i often dont finish open world games just because often sooner or later it gets to the point where i dont know where im supposed to go or there is so many markers that i get overwhelmed and dont know what to do. I prefer linear stories, metro games are one of my favorites.

[@2SK-EVIL]

Take Your Time Man it’s gonna be worth it when you drop a new Video also I think The Rest Of The Games should be restricted because I was able to go to new Vegas In My first play though and Spoilers it stopped me from going into new Vegas and You Have To Get 2,000 bottle Caps To Go In and fallout new Vegas have some restriction but when I play fallout 3 there wasn’t really that much restricted areas. Also good video Justin

[@utahraptorgamer5183]

Mafia definitive edition for sure wouldnt of been one of my favorites of all time if it wasn't so linear

[@docksidegames8861]

Tears of the kingdom is a game I still haven’t beat. 😢

[@CrackedJust1n]

Me too 😢

[@jesharrell9748]

What game are you playing near the end? Ghost Recon? This was a good video by the way, the ideas rich, original, engaging, and innovative.

[@CrackedJust1n]

Thank you :) the game is PUBG

[@032_m.alfathcirrus5]

I think the leaks say something like a tailing mission can turn into a chase mission once the target is alerted, similar to some of the missions in other GTA games, GTA 4 specifically.

[@Ronuk1996]

RDR2 has rail road side quest like that also.

[@orynx2835]

I somewhat agree with you but you see , i really want a game to be balanced with linear story missions and the freedom for the players . I really wish GTA 6 follows what GTA 4 did . Let the player choose between two choices or the very least , do different outcomes from a mission . Lets say you want to kill a guy. Why not try and blow his car up? I still did kill him . But of course they could set some limits to it , like no explosives etc. Thats what i want from GTA6 , red dead was perfect because of the awesome story and word . If it only had the story it could he kinda mediocre.

[@universeofgaming318]

Is either u sacrifice the immersion and go for sandbox Or You sacrifice creativity and go for linear Or you could be golem and do all

[@Hecker9974]

RDR2 is a story, I love the story, I love the immersion, I understand people who want to go batshit insane and do whatever on a sandbox but sometimes I just want to be shown a story and enjoy it. Also I think games like RDR or GTA could have used a couple of sandbox missions like a Hitman level, for important events but not for the whole game

[@Ronuk1996]

RDR2 dose have main story missions like that but also. Linear ones. Rockstar did make Manhunt so they could do a hitman style missions. In Fact i think Agent was going to be their hitman.

[@maratonto_]

I couldn't agree more with you

[@out1am977]

hes back!!

[@Yandhi_Y]

dang where are you man

[@jeremycarter312]

Rdr2 is linear but the missions have multiple ways to finish them

[@hassanelattar2009]

i think totk suffers in this. they try to blend linear and nonlinear. you can just leave during most of the suposadly tense parts which ruins them

[@joehuman4]

Next video idea : Ubisoft

[@woutervn]

Finally someone who said it. I get the point of the criticism but I don't agree that the gamedesign is broken and/or needs to change. Just like you said, giving the player all the freedom of the open world during a mission would be disruptive to the immersion of the story and minimize it's impact. I don't see it as one limiting the other, I see it as the best of both worlds. Be glad that such an excellent story like that of RDR2 can exist in an open world setting. You have a sandbox AND a great story. Missions are just part of the game, not the entire game... so it's not like you're limited in the sandbox all the time.

[@dyslexic28]

🤫🧏🏻‍♂️

[@endedomammi2476]

👍

[@Ronuk1996]

RDR3 has missions with alot of freedom and others more scripted for story and cinematic

[@thefallenvalley4340]

Yes but RDR2’s linear game design would NOT work for GTA 6

[@youbaouahdi4358]

RDR2's game design gas been Rockstar's open world thing since GTA 3 with a couple of changes throughout each game they released. How would it not fit in GTA 6?

[@thefallenvalley4340]

@@youbaouahdi4358 You can be more creative in GTA 5. Not as restricted.

[@youbaouahdi4358]

@@thefallenvalley4340 GTA 5 and RDR2 share the most similarities in terms of their lission design compared to other Rockstar Games.

[@Ronuk1996]

​@@youbaouahdi4358RDR2 has missions with freedom and more linear ones. Manhunt has open levels and The Warriors is also open ended.

[@Ronuk1996]

​@@thefallenvalley4340You some what right in some cases but RDR2 has missions that really allow allot of freedom.

[@NinesNX]

I disagree but the only thing I agree with u is the ai stuff u mentioned

[@texanarchy666]

people need to realize their games are linear for a reason. look at red dead online, its way more open ended and it failed because of it. people like being told what to do even if they wont admit it

[@yup7380]

Yeah, the main missions are very restrictive. Some RDR 2 fans may see this criticism as "Well, RDR 2 is not mulitbranching path story" or it can contradict the cutscene by having main character talks like a nice guy even though in the gameplay, the players play the main character like murderous psycho that killed anyone he met in the open world lol. I think this criticism simply means that Arthur can have mission failed for stupid things. I once want to flank an entire group of enemies by taking their machine gun and blast them from behind. Yet the game saw that as "You walked away from the gang". RDR 2 doesn't need to give total freedom the way Zelda do but it also can be not as restrctive as it is. Games like Resident Evil 4 (Not apple to apple comparasion to RDR 2) is more linear than previous installments of the series but the amount of choice of how to approch enemies provided by the game tools is a good example of linear done right. RDR 2 is an excellent games which faults are just a bunch of minor simple things but since these minor faults are so attached to the main mission story, it can sticks out as hinderence of immersion and enjoyment for some people. Linear in video games doesn't mean 1 straight line. It means more of there is only one outcome but the path to reach that one outcome can be many. The most simple example being, what kind of gun and strategy I'm going to use to solve this mission. RDR 2 loves to remove the strategy part, hell they sometime take away players free choice of weapon during some mission. RDR 2 is one of my favorite games of all time, one of the very few games that made me feel helping people out is more satisfying than shooting anyone who stands in our path. RDR 2 open world is also amazing, I love exploring it by not looking at the map and just go wherever randomly. How we managed Arthur to be a better person than yesterday by taking care of simple things such as his beard, food, sleep schedule to big things like helping folks out insteaf of beating them give me freedom of gameplay enough despite those restrictive missions. I ended up falling in love with this game because of that. I hope GTA 6 learn from this, that game can be more linear for all I care as long as they don't restrict player choice to solve a mission based on the tools the game provides.

[@Ronuk1996]

if you go crazy in the open world Arthur changes.

[@Ronuk1996]

RDR2 has missions that are open but also linear ones. Inconsistent design is an issue.

[@niteshanthony2324]

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[@random70512]

oh shut up

[@kayo-.-]

Only 400 views in 4 hours bro fell off

[@cartercolson7975]

Only 500 views in 4 hours bro fell off

[@dvd.-]

That comment is soo unfunny bro

[@dudemp4]

ok nah this ones actually kinda true