Sardonicast 112: Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Avatar

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[@michaelscott8901]

Timestamps! 0:00 Intro, Shrek 3 1:52 Avatar 2 Trailer 8:27 Doctor Strange 2 (spoilers) 39:09 Avatar (spoilers) 1:34:01 Pizza Time! I mean Question Time! 1:34:15 What are your thoughts about adults who watch, critique, and demand deeper themes in animation meant for kids/teens? 1:38:45 Should Hollywood stop hiring people with problematic opinions? 1:49:30 Should Wes Anderson direct a Marvel film? 1:55:36 Adum recommends 4 Months, 3 Weeks and 2 Days Good stuff boys, always good when we have a Raimi movie to talk about. Too bad no one said Pizza Time in Doctor Strange 2, but there’s always Doctor Strange 3. Happy Shrek!

[@etgohome1343]

Masterful work, thank you again great messiah!

[@greenentertainment3428]

There were pizza balls

[@michaelscott8901]

@@greenentertainment3428 TIME TO DELIVER A PIZZA BALL

[@thegooseshow2691]

so useful for spotify thanks you bro

[@neauxway]

Thank you for the timestamps, and a good Shrek to you as well

[@ThunderthrustRawcockPhD]

1:12:30 Avatar lore expert here. The na'vi fuck with their genitals like humans. Those dangly bits at the end of their ponytails are something like exposed nerve endings, so the hair sex is more of an emotional experience since they're essentially communicating brain to brain, feeling out each other's thoughts and emotions. It's not the kind of thing you'd do with the homies, although I wouldn't judge. Also the ponytails just cover up a fleshy appendage sticking out of their heads. Edit: 1:25:13 The na'vi can't body swap all willy nilly because Eywa has to allow it, and she cares most about the circle of life and whatnot so I don't think she would like immortality very much. Also it was probably an experimental treatment that they hadn't tried before.

[@namwarmaster6918]

“although i wouldn’t judge” lmaooo

[@AimForMyHead81]

"Avatar lore expert" Holy based

[@Lovicide]

That's cool and all, but let's say the Navi are really getting horned up and decide to mix n match their normal genitals with their hair genitals? Would that be considered taboo? I need more info. This better be in the next movie James Cameron

[@JediDude23]

so like the asari from mass effect?

[@bennyjones1502]

Thank you, legitimately, for your expertise, Thunderthrust Rawcock, Ph.D.

[@winterx2348]

my coworker saw the new doctor strange movie and complained that it was too gorey. she told me this while scraping still-warm human flesh out of a set of reamers, arms deep in bloody sink water. we work at a hospital in the sterile processing department (aka we clean the tools after surgery) and it was the funniest thing i'd heard all night lol

[@nailinthefashion]

Poor thing just wants to get her mind off of work 😭 then Raimi's like 👁

[@Shadow789798]

Ralph saying "What? Are we some kind of Suicide Squadium" when talking about unobtainium really got me

[@debrachambers1304]

Alex, "tritium from Spiderman 2" is just a real element's isotope. It's a type of hydrogen.

[@Brandon-rb4sm]

That explains why it doesn’t sound ridiculous

[@djswaggot5109]

@@Brandon-rb4sm bro it's called 3-tium

[@christucker7655]

my precious tritium!

[@franciskeeping5982]

🤓🤓🤓

[@demian5631]

​@@djswaggot5109 Because the isotope contains 3 things: One proton and two neutrons. Normal hydrogen only has a proton.

[@KaleLikesWaffles]

Screen Junkies did an interview with the Dr. Strange cast in 2016 and they actually asked Tilda Swinton if Wes Anderson should direct a Marvel movie and she said “it’d be called Perfectly Symmetrical Man” and the way she says it is funnier than how I’m typing it out lol

[@tonywords6713]

Only if the sequel gets handed off to Luca guadagnino and Tilda plays six characters

[@YggdrasilAudio]

According to her, Wes is a big MCU fan (or at least was in 2016) which is kinda interesting.

[@HOTD108_]

@@YggdrasilAudio Doubt it. She probably just said that to avoid an awkward moment with the interviewer.

[@Lifesizemortal]

@@tonywords6713 unironically down for that idea

[@YggdrasilAudio]

@@HOTD108_ Well, who knows really.

[@latetothegame5557]

Tritium is actually a real element, and they deliberately chose it for having the properties and rarity that would make it motivate the story properly.

[@Jenniferentrance]

it's an actual isotype of hydrogen that would be used in real nuclear fusion, it's not as rare as they make out though

[@Lifesizemortal]

You can even buy it in a tiny vial to light up your keychain!

[@22freedom33]

Once Avatar 2 comes out we will finally have technology good enough for WaterWorld 2 with Kevin Costner

[@HNedel]

The interest in Avatar 2 seems quote low, it is nonexistent for WaterWorld 2. And Kevin Costner is like 70

[@22freedom33]

@@HNedel that's the joke.jpg

[@HNedel]

@@22freedom33 oh, r/woosh 😊

[@1997residente]

It's funny because i watched the Nostalgia critic review of Waterworld: He said that for most People, it might be sinful to be so expensive, yet so OK-ish...basically Avatar....hell people could say the same about current superhero films.

[@zaldigr863]

@@HNedel This aged horribly lmao.

[@Greendalewitch]

I would like to see your opinion on Everything, Everywhere All at Once. I know Adam loves it, but Im curious to hear an in dept discussion about it on here. This movie was sold to me as "The real Multiverse of Madness" and whoo boy. It truly was. It was utter madness, and I loved every minute of it.

[@michaelscott8901]

Excited to hear it too! I think it just came out in the UK so hopefully Alex gets a chance to see it soon

[@thenatureverse8495]

Probably waiting for UK release when Alex sees it, since it's a hard movie to talk about without spoilers.

[@ripred42]

Ralph gave it a 9/10 on letterboxd

[@motherplayer]

It was actually even more satisfying after seeing it for a second time after seeing Multiverse Of Madness. While MOM did have it's fair share of moments of proper inspiration and directorial control, seeing EEAaO really did serve to make me realize it wasn't all that maddening nor did it use the multiverse to much of the same effect. I mean the highlight of it all for me was Dead Dr. Strange and taking control of the minions of the dead, but the other has at least 3 scenes of that same kind of high inspiration.

[@sammykent5752]

@@motherplayer THIS!!! A thousand times this. Though for me I saw EEAAO a few days before MoM and went into MoM overhyped to see Raimi mixed with multiversal madness. While I enjoyed the Raimi-isms, the multiversal stuff was somewhat a letdown. At least compared to EEAAO.

[@trentkelsey4730]

Every time they mention America Chavez’s moms in the movie, they say “moms”, but in the end of the movie in a key scene they just say “parents”, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they cut it in certain countries

[@Lolatusername]

Marvel was specifically asked to remove that scene, and they refused.

[@Slugthing]

They definitely made the movie with the intention of removing it, but I think they “refused”, since Marvel movies haven’t been playing in China, so they want to pretend to take a stand. Maybe they’ll actually have real gay characters now.

[@nailinthefashion]

@@Slugthing what does "real gay" mean to you...?

[@nailinthefashion]

Personally I don't expect China or Saudi Arabia to change socially in my lifetime so if they wanna cut scenes and make money then use that same dollar for lgbt+ future content that showcases lgbt+ where they're accepted I literally have nothing to worry about lmao Random straights can make it an issue if they want while I watch MOM another 6 times 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@Slugthing]

@@nailinthefashion maybe I should rephrase it to “well written gay characters”. When it comes to Disney, they CONSTANTLY pretend to be progressive by promoting what I would classify as their “first gay character of the week”, as every week, they’ll have a new “first gay character” in some upcoming movie to draw attention to it. However, none of these characters have been main characters, and are typically side characters who’s sexuality will have little to no impact, so they can throw some random bit of dialogue in where they will vaguely alude to having been in a relationship with the same sex, and this will always be in one scene that doesn’t really need to be there. This isn’t to say that well written gay character can only be well written when they’re in a romance, but there are so many films in which the main characters are assumed to be straight by the writers/directors (based on the way they’ll interact with the opposite sex). Perhaps instead of Doctor Strange being interested in women, he could be interested in a guy. You don’t have to change anything about him apart from who he’s romantically interested in. What’s more important here is that it is baked within the text itself. He would just happen to be a gay main character, instead of some lazy joke such as “hm, I think I might’ve had sex with him once before, but I can’t tell” (sorry for how poor the joke is). That could easily be cut out, and it barely implies that the main character is gay. Even when a character is more openly gay in a Disney movie, it’s usually some offensive stereotype that makes it even worse. I think a good example of that would be Jungle Cruise, in which the guy is “girly”, so I guess he’s more openly gay or something.

[@DimentioX7896]

Discussion on Avatar where people wish they were on Pandora and the escapism element of it that Adam mentioned, reminds me of the popularity rise in the genre of isekai manga/anime stuff. Which is just literally that idea

[@superanxiety261]

I hate how so many people (not talking about Adum) don't understand that cinematography still exists and can still be great even when said thing is animated, 2d or 3d. And it takes work, I especially hate when people devalue the work that's put into animation, the immense amount of effort that's needed to make shit look good

[@Lifesizemortal]

agreed. Most of the time CGI hate really shows who the charlatan reviewers are. The tools and methods changing over time is the expected evolution of the medium. Same with film purists who think we never should've switched to digital cameras, ignoring how expensive and inaccessible filmmaking would be otherwise. In the same respect, CGI makes modern filmmaking accessible to independent filmmakers, also making the big budget movies of epic scope at all possible, while still being comparatively inexpensive to practical FX.

[@MrBump2]

I had a good time with Doctor Strange 2, and everyone around me was complaining about it in the theater, and all of their complaints were toward the Sam Raimi-isms, and I was like... that's why I'm here lol

[@TylerFederico]

Same exact experience for me. All the people around me and my friends were complaining about how goofy and schlocky parts of it were and I was super happy that we got a ton of Raimisms lol.

[@mohamadmahmoud6926]

I enjoy the raimi aspects to it but I hate the script completely

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

“Who is this movie for” is something a podcast reviewing the film stated in regard to the horror and violence elements. I feel like people can’t be pleased sometimes.

[@ColombianThunder]

@Jonathan Jones this is a direct result of the whole "imagine [blank] but gritty!" I think ever since the Dark Knight came out people just want something a bit more serious regardless of how ridiculous the source material is and to me that's really sad. That power rangers movie that came out a few years ago is evidence of that. That movie should be as silly as possible but they tried to make it "cool"

[@properduction2586]

What do you think about the complaints related to the script ? I thought the positives of the movie were towards the Raimi-sm..

[@YourLocalDutchGuy]

Melissa Mcarthy actually playing Ursula makes it even funnier

[@pinkimietz3243]

Mcarthy can't pull off Ursula.

[@ajzeg01]

Wait, really?? Why not Lizzo???

[@neauxway]

I thought for sure Lizzo was a lock

[@Gum_Cuzzler]

@@pinkimietz3243 She’s going to do a big fart and a bunch of bubbles will float out of her ink 🕳

[@DanXmas]

how's she gonna fall down underwater??

[@ScreamingLake]

Totally agree with Adum regarding the teaser. It looked very nice, but nothing that blew me away to the point where I could say "wow this looks unlike anything I've ever seen!" Back in 2009 Avatar revolutionized CG effects but other films have caught up since and now that CG is the new norm, there has to be something truly breathtaking and unprecedented about it to have it be equally as impactful now as it was then. Time will tell if it manages to pull that off!

[@returnalnocturnal7729]

idk, I've yet to see a movie that matches this level of fidelity. The closest I've seen would be the Unreal 5 demos.

[@nailinthefashion]

@@returnalnocturnal7729 it's actually insane how complacent people are. It looks absolutely stunning to me, in a way that makes me wanna run out to the theater and enjoy the spectacle of water in the way I was excited to see the banshees and bioluminiscence.

[@Pinksparkles1511]

I've been rewatching the Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy and Flapjack and honestly I feel no shame there. Those shows were fucking awesome and did have a lot of those heavier themes you talk about

[@Flounderboy15]

I feel that way about Gravity Falls

[@nailinthefashion]

Amphibia, the Owl House, the Amazing World of Gumball, Adventure Time, there's a ton of great animation out there rn

[@aljamg5426]

One thing, I'm not sure if its already been mentioned, about Avatar is that it was released during/after the Great Recession and people were stressed and exhausted and wanted/needed that escape from reality.

[@Lauren-si1fc]

I mean considering everything going on today it wouldn't be unreasonable to think the same might happen

[@Brandon-rb4sm]

I watched 4 months 3 weeks 2 days for the first time this year, I throughly enjoyed it. Great acting, cinematography, and a pretty powerful story.

[@iansmart4158]

See that AVATAR TRAILER in 3D. It looks immaculate. Some of the most verisimilitude I’ve seen in a CGI world.

[@tonywords6713]

Even though they're hit and miss I seriously loved the Chapo Trap House episode where they deconstruct Avatar. I was really shocked how much it made me reconsider the whole movie and James Cameron in general.

[@frankmerker630]

I mean you probably shouldn’t need to resort to a breakdown by someone else to realize that movie is really dumb and hamfisted, unless you saw it when your were like 9 and hadn’t seen it since

[@nevinwood5180]

Right there with you. I have a new appreciation for how he portrayed the military in Aliens/The Abyss

[@Gum_Cuzzler]

I mean I’m pretty sure part of Chapo’s love of Avatar is kind of a bit. They are ur hipsters to degree even Adum hasn’t reached so it makes sense they’d like a movie other film nerds kinda poo poo

[@tonywords6713]

@@frankmerker630 no not like tht

[@dajokahbaby1506]

Wes Anderson could do a Marvel movie, just not a MCU movie, if you know what I mean. As it probably wouldn’t be a household IP, like I can only imagine him doing something like an X-Static movie (an X-Men off-shoot), like just a movie about superhero characters that are very retro, off-beat, weird and extremely hipster-ish

[@awshnap]

Holy shit it’s roach dogg jr

[@Carlos_Tacos]

David Cronenberg directing a Swamp Thing film is something I'd love to see

[@dajokahbaby1506]

That would be amazing, and funnily enough he’s already done a DC movie, so why not another

[@Brandon-rb4sm]

He hasn’t made a good movie in a while though right?

[@ColombianThunder]

@@Brandon-rb4sm could change with Crimes of the Future

[@jcnot9712]

I also found the singing Wanda’s kids did hella cringe. Felt like they were too old for that nonsense, would’ve been more endearing if they made her like a letter or something.

[@mehdigeek]

they’re 9

[@KentzHodiono]

yeah seriously. I wanted to leave the theatre. Felt some serious second-hand embarrassment.

[@nib1448]

@@KentzHodiono how it wasn’t even that bad 💀💀 like what do you expect kids are like irl

[@nib1448]

@Jonathan Jones “no one even likes kids” bro not everyone is you stop forcing your jaded view of humanity onto everyone else

[@SeifellAlmancht]

Scarlet Witch is a tragic character in the comics as well. I haven't seen either Wanda-Vision or Doctor Strange 2 but it seems like they are showing MCU fans the very fucked up way Wanda deals with her trauma. In thr comics, on big, important Marvel storyline was "House of M" which was entire story about how the world was altered to fit what Wanda wanted due to her struggling with her trauma of losing her family. Generally people have what they really want and are happy. Eventually some characters learn what she has done and in the end Wanda erases like 90% of all mutant DNA in the world simply by saying "No More Mutants". I love Scarlet Witch. She's a really interesting character. Scarlet Witch was originally a mutant and part of X-Men lore before joining the Avengers. Eventually she was retconned to not be a mutant for some reason, so it kind of calls into question her motivation at the end of House Of M. Since Wanda herself was a mutant, if she actually got rid of all Mutants that would include herself. That makes the ending of House of M even more tragic imo. She was attempting to remove her own incredible power, and possibly end her own life.

[@id-null]

Seems like they used House of M for the plot outline for wanda-vision then, because that's almost exactly what they did with that (aside from the bit about mutants, and a whole town rather than the whole world)

[@voodoo_soup]

Doctor Strange: Web Of Shadows Finally, the Marvel/Bionicle crossover I've been waiting 15 years for!

[@marco0o00o]

I hope you guys decide to discuss everything everywhere all at once when Alex gets a chance to see it. It would’ve been cool to hear you guys compare it to doctor strange 2

[@blueberrydenim4807]

Yeah Everything Everywhere just dethroned Spiderverse as the best multiverse film, it was flawless imo

[@ameenabedrabbo4147]

I'm pretty sure there waiting for Alex to see it because it got recently released in the UK

[@jcnot9712]

I thought the acting for America Chavez was underwhelming until I realized the actress was 14 when they shot MoM. For some perspective, that’s 11 years younger than Tom Holland and Zendaya are at 25. They didn’t get some kid look-a-like, they got an actual kid and she did okay.

[@za-ir5ni]

I don't know, she really wasn't good at all

[@walrusArmageddon]

I thought she was alright, good on her for getting into a marvel movie at 14, sure would have liked to be in a movie at that age and would have done a worse job

[@1984Brandon]

@@za-ir5ni The live action Little Mermaid should star Gabourey Sidibe as Ariel be directed by Haifaa al-Mansour and casting Tommy Wiseau as Eric and Denzel Washington as King Trident.

[@1997residente]

That's cool. They could have picked Alexa Demie or some other Gal in her late 20s to play a teen. That pisses me off

[@kingsleycy3450]

Finally someone said it. Wong is one of the more interesting characters in Dr. Strange. At the very least he is more fun to watch than flipping Mordo.

[@bigdadybojangls9219]

My favorite part about mordo is when dr strange was like “oh yeah he keeps trying to kill me” FUCKING WHEN?! Lmao we haven’t seen mordo since the end credits of the first dr strange

[@Albino_Basilisk]

@@bigdadybojangls9219 mordo at the ends of dr strange 1: “too many wizards” Mordo during the thanos snap: “not enough wizards!”

[@bigdadybojangls9219]

@@Albino_Basilisk lmao it’s like the MCU just lied to us

[@sabiyadusk7357]

I also went into Multiverse of Madness without seeing the trailers and it was an amazing choice

[@HOTD108_]

The MCU now has the same problem as the comics. There are now infinite identical copies of all our favourite characters in the multiverse, so all stakes and tension are gone. A character died an emotional and dramatically satisfying death? Don't worry! An exact copy is still alive in the multiverse! Heroes win? Doesn't matter because they lost horribly in the multiverse! There are infinite copies of all your favourite characters shitting their pants in the multiverse.

[@Gum_Cuzzler]

I’m already shitting my pants in this reality.

[@dirrdevil]

Yeah, it's why I hate alternate dimension storytelling. It works in Rick and Morty, which feeds into the depression because "nothing matters" and it works well for comedies, but reduces all stakes in a drama.

[@TylerFederico]

It’s funny that time travel and alternate dimensions are things people have absolutely hated for the most part in comics for years, but for some reason, people are ok with it in the MCU lol

[@Lifesizemortal]

Yeah the multiverse concept is such an afterthought, but ultimately it makes each individual character less special and less important as an effect of that

[@dajokahbaby1506]

which is extremely ironic, because that’s more of a problem for DC than Marvel, what with their barrage of reboots like New 52, Rebirth, or Infinite Frontier. Not to mention the concurrent alternate dimension imprints like Earth One or Future-state. The Death Metal event, that was somehow both in continuity yet has no barring on the plot of other superhero titles, Or the fact that New-52 Superman died and was literally replaced by OG Superman from the previous continuity/universe. Like Marvel only ever did What-if, Ultimate, and the MAX lines, which were either different enough or *very* fucking different to the main continuity. Sure there was still a multiverse, but who gives a shit when it’s not actually the characters that you read, just facsimiles of them that happened to experience the same things. So it’s funny that out of greed, the MCU is succumbing into the same pitfall that’s affecting their competitor

[@sagevoyage]

I watched Avatar again recently and it's genuinely pretty good? The story doesn't particularly stand out, it's a pretty standard Hero's Journey but those do work. It's just an inherently satisfying type of story. Rewatching it as an adult really made me appreciate the world building and the culture of the planet though. I was pretty engaged all the way through. Kind of a weirdly underrated film imo!

[@plantnation5932]

Ralph: I don't think JK should be writing it. Ralph 1 minute later: I don't actually know what she said.

[@alexwizard1887]

I think the one thing to note from this new avatar movie is the fact they ACTUALLY filmed underwater. Aquaman was made digitally to look like they are underwater (which looks kinda shit). James Cameron actually went the extra mile and filmed some of the setting of the movie in the water.

[@snagc4b427]

And they created mocap suits that work underwater too

[@HNedel]

He did the Abyss, and even though it was hell to film, it was impressive. He probably wanted another go at underwater shooting

[@jacksonheiniger80]

WandaVision ended with Wanda getting a slap on the wrist and not really being punished for what she did. Marvel essential makes her a good guy again after the awful thing she's done in enslaving the town, which makes WandaVision have such a weird aftertaste.

[@blueberrydenim4807]

Did you not watch Dr Strange 2? They address this & go even further making her a full on, irredeemable villain

[@rabbitseason7537]

@@blueberrydenim4807 Doesn't Darkhold corrupts the user?

[@jacksonheiniger80]

@@blueberrydenim4807 I did, I've only seen WandaVision once so it might be memory. In DS 2 they actually made her a villain which is what WandaVision should've done in the first place instead of having the FBI lady tell Wanda it's not her fault and that it's ok that she enslaved an entire town.

[@jacksonheiniger80]

@@rabbitseason7537 I remember that it does and is an influence towards Wanda not listening to anyone in DS 2. IDK, I suppose it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when you tell your character it's OK they did this awful thing then they them do a complete 180 in the next movie and be what they should've been at the end of WandaVision. WandaVision should've ended with Wanda flying away still a bad guy, so by the time we get to DS 2, she's a looming threat, but Strange has worked with her before and isn't bothered with confronting her right now because of that old trust. Then America shows up and he decides its finally time to confront her. That would've been a way better, more interesting setup. We could've gotten some friendship development between Strange and Wanda. Etc.

[@blueberrydenim4807]

@@rabbitseason7537 Yes, the darkhold corrupts anyone, but Wanda was already on a dark path & has a history of leaning toward being a villain, plus she is vulnerable after losing everything she cares about. So Wanda with the darkhold would logically lead to this imo

[@barsbold274]

ralph's logic of " it's a superhero movie, who cares" is pretty dumb

[@czbrat]

@Jonathan Jones what about caring about the most basic human elements in superhero movies. like supposedly the most intelligent and sophiscated people not being retarded for just a minute

[@L3ghair]

Ralph is ridiculously forgiving when it comes to Mcu movies lol. Him saying "oh who cares it's a superhero movie" several times in this reminded me of when he did the same thing for No Way Home.

[@C.G.Jr.]

Yeah, imo it's a bit inconsistent considering his old reviews. No Way Home in particular surprises me with how much it gets away with lol

[@mehdigeek]

bc u can’t take it too seriously

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

Well that's true. But then again I get the impression that he gave up on trying to rate these Marvel films as highbrow entertainment. He does mention that the consistency in these films doesn't matter

[@czbrat]

yeah i don't get it. how does it being a superhero movie make it any different from a "regular" movie. wtf

[@returnalnocturnal7729]

@@czbrat superhero movies are bottom tier trash that takes itself way to seriously. That's why Raimi did wonderful. These movies are supposed to be fantastical campy bullshit you can enjoy absent-mindedly, and Raimi understood the assignment

[@eugeneimbangyorteza]

Adum: They would've gotten Chris Evans as Human Inferno Deadpool & Wolverine: Take a note take a note

[@blameitonthebubble5294]

I actually had a similar experience to Adum rewatching Avatar because I saw it once when it came out and a second time on a plane ride.

[@1997residente]

They are gonna re-release Avatar in theatres but i'm not gonna give James Cameron his "I want you to watch this film in Imax 3d" trophy. I didn't need to IMAX 3D to watch Jurassic park or Toy Story. I'll probably watch Avatar 2 in 2d

[@nailinthefashion]

There's a lot that y'all missed in the nuance like in the pairing tradition. There would be those that choose someone based on their merits, best singer etc, but the point would be to get to know people; to date around and pair with someone you would die for, someone who taught you the way to the ikran, someone who would vouch for you in front of their entire people. Upon a rewatch, there's so much more to offer than just a Dances with Wolves retelling-- There's a strong, stern Poison Ivy type who makes fun of all the men around her but actually has a heart of gold, who is a perfect mirror to the military dudes. She's my favourite character out of the bunch and I wish we could have seen the school in operation. I'm hoping the sequel gives us that pay off through a flashback maybe, but I doubt it. They should just focus on the lighting roflmao

[@JoseRuiz-yh2eh]

48:35 Lol, this is a perfect description. It caught me off guard how perfect it is, it blew my mind.

[@WreckingWood]

We live in a timeline where Avatar 2 will arrive sooner than YMS Lion King part 2.

[@cheeez9438]

Fantastic BEATS and where to GROW them is a classic

[@w33blord66]

I kinda hate Ralph's "it's just a dumb movie, who cares, don't think about characterization take." Like that is a position you can have sure, but then why watch a review if so many aspects of the film aren't even worth evaluating?...

[@ElvenSonic]

I think Ralph’s point is that it’s less important for the greater movie that Dr Strange’s characterization be on point. It isn’t something the movie puts much emphasis on, so him being pretty weak (same with the script in general) was less impactful than it would’ve been in a different type of movie. That being said I do agree he’s sort of brushing off a lot of what the movie was trying (and failing, bc the script was terrible) to go for with Strange’s character. The core conflict of the movie is supposed to be how Wanda is going to extremes that Strange would have gone to himself to get what he wanted, and him learning to let go of it, but it ultimately fails in exploring that conflict. The reason I don’t care as much about that is the film does explore aspects of Dr. Strange that I think are more fun (even though the script disagrees with me) like him doubling down, utilizing forbidden magic in a creative way being how he ends up winning in the end.

[@w33blord66]

@@ElvenSonic I understand that perspective as there are definitely movies I enjoy that are lacking in the script but are a very complete experience based on elements such as world building or tone. That being said, I wish Ralph would articulate that opinion rather than doing this kind of dismissive handwaving. He does this alot of marvel films and consistently rates them highly despite seemingly not subjecting them to the same level of scrutiny you'd apply to other films.

[@jonathansefcik473]

That third fanart is gold.

[@Humdrumv]

Film fact : the hull material that gets stronger with pressure in the film The Core (2003) was nicknamed unobtainium

[@zoeysheldon5634]

Unobtainium is a real life term, apparently

[@MetaI4Brains]

The whole "separating the art from the artist" conversation reminded me that a lot of my favorite bands are full of rapists.

[@PasserMontanus]

As a black metal fan, I felt it...

[@Bc_467]

One thing that the sardonicast crew didn't mention in the episode is that bobdunga will be the guest for next episode, I know this because adam mentioned this during his editing stream on this episode

[@LCR10dogs]

“Immortality is more valuable than unobtanium” lmfao, what a foreshadow

[@getmario64]

4:52 they should've called "Avatar 2: The Way of Water" like Cameron did have the title recently since "Terminator 2: Judgment Day." So I wonder why Cameron Man wanted to say "The Way of Water" which is a pretty weak upcoming title.

[@Dreddexe]

I disagree with Ralph and Alex. When watching Wandavision, Wanda wasn't portrayed as the villain (At least, not at the end) There are bits where she is portrayed that way, sure. But, this isn't consistent. Wanda Mentally tortures an entire town, keeping children locked away from their parents, one of the people says, "If you wont let us go, just let us die." Yet, at the end, when the authorities show up and it's time for Wanda to face the consequences of her action (ENSLAVING AN ENTIRE TOWN) Monica Rambeau, our "good guy" character decides to just let Wanda escape, telling her "They'll never know what you sacrificed." All the blood on Wanda's hands, was accomplished due to Monica, just feeling bad for Wanda and letting the villain go, after ENSLAVING AN ENTIRE TOWN. The police show up and as Wanda is FLEEING FROM THE COPS, Monica says "good luck" The show ends with Wanda FLEEING FROM THE COPS, with the soundtrack in no way indicating, that this OBVIOUS bad thing is bad. Instead, the music is hopeful and as Wanda looks back at the town, THAT SHE JUST ENSLAVED, the music begins to kick in and again the music doesn't change into a more sinister version, to indicate that she just enslaved a town. It was just your average, get ready for what's coming next music. Also, this isn't relevant, but I just want to remind everyone, that they brought Vision back, with his memories and I feel like that was just forgotten. For some reason he never contacted Wanda, he just left, because?

[@bigdadybojangls9219]

The MCU is starting to get to Zack Snyder levels of shit writing

[@Dreddexe]

@@bigdadybojangls9219 I genuinely can’t tell whether or not the Wandavision writers knew what was going to happen to Wanda.

[@Dethmaster64]

I wonder if Avatar 2 will have the same 70 AMC screenings on Times Square that Dr Strange 2 had

[@motherplayer]

For the sequel to the highest grossing film of all time, it's gonna get 80.

[@ThatsCoolJoshua]

If she was less evil she would just find a universe where the kids were real but orphans lol

[@22lagoon]

You guys gotta find the clip of the start of the eyeball squid fight , there’s an absolutely insane continuity error where the pedestrian running away with a briefcase literally brushes shoulders with dr strange like 4 separate times while running down the street

[@thedogmaticdirector]

I would like to propose "Pandorite" as an alternate name for Unobtanium.

[@motherfreya2840]

I really like the art of Adam trying to link up with his pon avatar.

[@CoooolRocks]

Gotta disagree with Adam’s “mmm” when Ralph brought up Thelma & Louise. It’s more of a mhm. Best Ridley Scott film.

[@Larissa-zt6nr]

I was the only person who laughed in my theater in doctor strange, i generally dont watch horror movies bc im too sensitive, but i'll definitly give Raimi stuffs a watch

[@carsonfowler3182]

She probably could’ve found a universe with the kids where that Wanda’s dead. Rick and Morty style

[@1997residente]

Has anyone noticed how people compare Dances with wolves to Avatar but they probably haven't seen DWW? I remember being this dark film where Kevin Costner gets drunk and tries to commit suicide... and then his commander blows his head with a gun...them a white girl has a flashback of her family getting killed by pawnee ... DWW is better than Avatar. But it´s only remembered because Avatar has similar plot points and because it won best picture over Goodfellas.

[@ImCliffordToday]

I’ve seen both and, yes, they both have very similar plot points

[@taufikhidayatlubis2890]

Ikr!

[@almightycinder]

Reb Brown's Mercenary Fighters is closer.

[@dylanmcartoonell1536]

“Unobtainium” is a less valuable resource than “Imadeitupium”

[@Plasmabolt64]

Something I took issue with in Multiverse of Madness was the direction they took with Wanda. At the end of Wandavision, while not immediately forgiven, Wanda comes to terms with vision’s death and that what she did to the town was wrong. However she doesn’t seem to be entirely over her kids which we see in the end when she begins to read the dark hold. But instead of showing the journey of her becoming corrupted by the darkhold, they just skip all of that and she’s just evil. It comes off as very lazy to me.

[@LightWingStudios12]

The majority of movie theaters only have 2k projectors installed (since most films finish at a 2k resolution). So you all probably saw it at a 2k resolution. Usually, the theaters will promote specific theater rooms as a 4k digital projection (even with IMAX, you have to look for IMAX with laser as any other digital IMAX theater is also shockingly at 2k). The 3D version of the trailer was super immersive as like the first, it was natively shot in 3D Edit: Just found out, James Cameron is doing a "remaster" of the vfx in Avatar 1, before the release of Way of the Water.

[@MaleTears]

I am just glad that we can all be here as one big, sardonic family !

[@bensrandomshows1482]

Tritium is like, a real thing tho

[@Eugene_TEC]

Based on how he talked about it I'm guessing Adum gives Dr Strange a 6/10, closer to a 5 than a 7.

[@rabbitseason7537]

15:23 Adum asking the real question. Somehow I feel Adum would have definitely agreed with the criticism.

[@blackops4854]

Tritium is Hydrogen-3, it's a real thing

[@christianmartinez774]

Avatar is a really enjoyable movie, people say the story is overplayed but they keep repeating the same previous movies like dances with wolves and fern gulley. Are there other examples?

[@jamaphy8621]

Indeed. Its enjoyable and that’s enough for me me.

[@FrenchFries2]

Do you mean are there other big movies that have similar elements to older movies? If yes then Joker with its elements to king of comedy.

[@Blackavast]

"mononoke hime"

[@tonywords6713]

Pocahontas, Tarzan to a degree, Star Wars to a degree (any hero's journey really). It doesn't really bug me as it's meant to be archetypal and straightforward so you can indulge in the world building without losing a general audience (Lord of the Rings and more recently the Northman applied this formula).. not everything needs to be a complex character study but audiences in general seem to struggle with judging art from what they EXPECT rather than what it actually IS.

[@christianmartinez774]

@@tonywords6713 Yeah I agree with you, it just seems like Avatar is constantly criticized for having an overplayed story, but honestly I don't think movies with overtly pro environmental messaging are very common.

[@SonicHaXD]

Surprised how much they liked Avatar. Kinda excited to see the sequel now XD

[@skaven969]

No u

[@Draven1895]

WandaVision season 2 will be called WandaWanda and it'll about the two Wanda household

[@FrenchFries2]

I think it was Alex last week that talked about trying to remember characters names from Avatar, I saw this film two days ago, and I only remember two character's names, which is Jake Sully and Neytri, but I genuinely can't remember if Jake Sully had a different name when he became an Avatar or whatever they actually call them, like I'm pretty sure he's called something else by Neytri and the other tribal members right? I also thought for the longest time that Neytri was actually called Ataryi or close to that name, I hadn't seen the movie in about 6 years until I watched it a few days ago. I genuinely only remember Avatar for the spectacle and visuals of the film, some of the music kind of reminded me of African tribe music, which was also nice to listen to.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

I didn't really remember any of the character's names until I got reminded through watching this video. I only remembered the names of the actors and actresses

[@chrisbarnett5303]

Most movies people can't name more than 1-2 characters. This is such a weird criticism haters latch on to.

[@CoOlKyUbI96]

@@chrisbarnett5303 I may be wrong, but I think most people use that specific criticism because Avatar used to be the highest grossing film of all time before then being dethroned by Avengers and then later re-released in theaters to reclaim the title. So this isn't judged like any other average film.

[@chrisbarnett5303]

@@CoOlKyUbI96 Look at the top 20 highest grossing movies of all time. Outside of Avatar and Titanic, they are all sequels, prequels, spinoffs, reboots, remakes of long-existing IPS that have had multiple movies, tv shows, video games, etc. Of course people will remember the names of characters in IPS they've been firehosed with for decades. Like "oh shit really people remember all the names of the caped dorks in the movies whose sole purpose was to bring all the most famous of the caped dorks that have been part of comic books, tv shows and movies since the 50s together?! And they don't remember the name of characters from an original IP from a decade and a half ago that has had zero sequels, tv shows, and very little in the way of tied-in media in general?!" Most people will remember Jake Sully and Neytiri and with Titranic, few in TitanticI NEVER hear people slag off Titanic because "you can only remember two names" It's a stupid and arbitrary criteria made by haters so they can slag off Avatar.

[@shivpuri5769]

To respond to Adams query, there is a character in wandavision who was an angent sent in to take Wanda down who says, "They will never know what you gave up for them" which is nonsense and it's coming from a character who you'd suppose has the moral high ground.

[@shivpuri5769]

So yeah it kinda endorses Wanda in the end but it also shows what she inflected on the residents of Westview, the final 2 episodes are just a huge mess

[@AliAMotamed]

According to the Avatar wiki, the love scene had Jake and Neytiri connecting their ponytails in the special edition Re-release blu-ray from 2010 not the theatrical version. The special edition had an additional 9 minutes added and that short bit in the love scene was part of that. The Disney+ version is the theatrical version.

[@giovan483]

Just finished watching Ralph’s review. This immediately dropped. Let’s go

[@designtechdk]

I remember from a wiki that the hair thing was just to connect their nervous systems, to have a deeper connection or something. They have genitalia “similar to humans”.

[@capsjukebox]

Wes Anderson’s Howard the Duck in black and white as a noir detective story

[@KaiderKiller]

Everyone of you guys praising the score should watch the Sideways video on what a huge missed opportunity it is and the irony in that

[@Flashplayer65]

I've seen Sideways video and while I get where he's coming from, I still agree with Adum and the others that the score is phenomenal as it is. Of course it is westernized and full of hollywood tropes to appeal more towards the "average" guy (just like the movie itself), but that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. James Horner still manages to make the music just as exiting, complex and beautiful without having to sacrifice the accessibility of it. And there are still plenty of "foreign" sounding moments to create a nice balance. If they went the way they initailly planned, it would have probably sounded more like Horner's Apocalypto (which is a much inferior score IMO).

[@julianarchy9043]

35:48 it sounds like Ralph said "Spider-Man: No Way Home Alone" lol

[@Alex_Nason]

But it ain't no easy grab, they got unobtainium

[@C.G.Jr.]

Please fellas, don't miss Everything Everywhere All At Once. You mentioned in the last episode how The Northman felt like everything you've been waiting to see in a theater, and while I feel a similar way, Everything Everywhere TRULY is that movie. It is the unique, weird, boundary pushing thrill ride with amazing action & performances. Ya gotta see it Sards. I know Adam liked it, but the other two gotta see it as well. Everyone here deserves that treat lol

[@KyleKoala28]

A recent episode literally has this film in the title.

[@snagc4b427]

I wished I could see it, but for some reason France still hasn't distributed it here ...

[@C.G.Jr.]

@@snagc4b427 Hopefully you get it soon, it's a wonderful film

[@C.G.Jr.]

@@KyleKoala28 There is no such episode my friend. Unless if they put it up on their patreon, which I'm not subbed to, then it's not within my accessibility

[@Themeowingsnail]

Adam gave it a 9/10 and so did Ralph on Letterboxd. As far as I know, Alex hasn't seen it yet

[@theyounglinksociety6258]

33:00 you know of all the people I'd expect to devalue whole art forms the last people on my list would be you guys. Writers and Artists work extremely hard on these comics books just the same way film makers work hard on small indie films or authors put in hundreds of hours for novels most people will never read. Art is art and it can be really demoralizing to the people actually trying to push a genre forward.

[@muttjones222]

Yeah I’m not gonna lie, that got me really really angry to hear them just say that so dismissively.

[@theyounglinksociety6258]

@@muttjones222 Yeah. It’s totally fine if comics are not your thing but dismissing it like that just isn’t right. It’s like if I said the same thing about Broadway directors. Just because Im not into traditional theater dosent mean the work their doing is valuable.

[@yusifer5719]

Too be fair, DC does have a habit of crisising fairly often lol. Tha being said, it seems like their statements are at least coming from a place of ignorance and not malice (I hope).

[@muttjones222]

@@yusifer5719 Yeah I wasn’t angry at the idea about these things being confusing and the stories not mattering as much because of all the reboots and things but more of the attitude that “no one cares or reads these things. Who cares about consistency and the decisions that go into these stories and characters” It’s such a dismissive disrespectful thing to say or imply. But I agree it probably came from ignorance. Doesn’t make it any less irritating to hear.

[@theyounglinksociety6258]

@@yusifer5719 my problem wasn’t the comment of them rebooting (which I assume is what your comment on crisising is about, if I’m wrong please correct me). That’s 100% true they just reboot every 10 years max. My problem was the comment on “getting some rando” it trivializes the work the creative teams on these books do. Stuff like that is how marvel and dc have gotten away with not paying their teams what they’re actually worth or giving them much in roalities when their books get adapted into multimillion dollar films. I don’t think it’s out of malice but also as a fan for years I know how passionate they get about film and filmmakers, I know for a fact they wouldn’t say that about the films they see and talk about.

[@hungtotheover3385]

We NEED Scoot on this podcast!

[@laneminor6240]

I would bet that the original plan for the original release order was to have Dr. Strange lose the position of Sorceror Supreme due to using the Dark Hold, and that they changed it once the release order swapped around.

[@SylentVoidkeeper]

Ah, Avatar. I wish I could like it more. I'm not the type of person who is just satisfied with worldbuilding or whatever the visuals are. And I'm not saying those aspects aren't fantastic, Pandora is insanely detailed and the movie looks beautiful even now, but I need something more to it. And I don't personally feel like we get that. I think the characters are all really generic and boring, minus Jake Sully I basically don't remember any of their names, I hardly remember what they contributed to the story. Aside from some occasional exposition or really bland characterization. I need something a little less surface level to dig into.

[@motherplayer]

Same here. Saw it with my late day and sister in the day and while they both loved it, couldn't bare to tell them I just thought it was okay. Sigourney Weaver's character was the only one worth remembering in my book, and much of my blasé with the film didn't help having seen "District 9" earlier that year and having a much better time.

[@connormccarthy2745]

I hope I never hear anybody else say "the world is so immersive that people were killing themselves just to go there". That is a wildly stupid statement.

[@twistedtxb]

This was a great episode! Thanks guys!

[@PasserMontanus]

People should just rewatch Mr. Plinkett's review of Avatar. He totally dissects it for what it is an what is bad about it. Uninspired names for non-existent elements are the least of its problems.

[@22freedom33]

Baby Shark could improve with a deeper look at the family systematic abuse in South Korean households 1:34:15

[@Wodro]

sad that Adum doesn't remember _precious Tritium..._

[@ps238principal]

They COULD do a Batman multiverse story, but they'd need to do a movie adaptation of Batman/Planetary: Night on Earth. Also, they could do a neat reboot of their cinematic universe (assuming they get a better head writer or story-wrangler) and cast the Snyderverse as the DC alt-U with the Justice Lords.

[@ARI-vx1ir]

America Chaves’s actor wasn’t nearly as bad as Wanda’s kids.

[@nescade5663]

Honestly her acting was typical and hammy for a marvel movie. The only thing is like everytime she screamed it was like so quick and short and even at times sounded like they used the same takes for her screaming? Her screaming was the kinda scream you make when you see like a bug on your food or something. It was so bad.

[@mokona034]

They created a latina character and her superpower is to cross borders lol nice one Marvel.

[@murilohumbertocmcb]

I love the character of Doctor Strange in the comics. When they talked about his sister in the movie i was like "finally some space for workimg up the protagonist"

[@1997residente]

Without going further if Avatar 2009 is good or bad, i'll just say this. There seems to be 2 groups: -The one who probably likes at least one James Cameron film but it's so agressively dissapointed by Avatar. So they look at Avatar 2 as a boy who Cried Wolf. -The one who LOVES every single James Cameron film, including Avatar, and looks at this new film as a New "Toy story"

[@jonathonbisiach749]

This week on Sardonicast: Avatar discussion ft. Adam's barely disguised fetish!

[@deetvleet]

what? what fetish?

[@ImCliffordToday]

You definitely didn’t imagine the hair fucking scene. It happens. I watch it on Disney plus tho and they seemed to have taken it out

[@TheProphet3113]

Minovsky particles are still cool, not sounding stupid and having functional mechanics ascribed that make the world work helps.

[@Jenniferentrance]

Tritium is a real thing it's just a hydrogen atom with 2 neutrons added

[@ColeslawVariant]

Rural internet may be the reason for 1080p uploads, as 4k videos buffer constantly at my mom's place.

[@Hoganply]

To answer Adum's question about some people's criticim of WandaVision, they're conflating the use of a tragic anti-villain character with 'women not being held accountable', effectively.