Is Classic Camping Anti Bushcraft?

The threat of torrential rain has delayed getting the Shepherd Stove lit, so I'm going to talk a bit about what I see happening with the Classic Camping hobby today.
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[@ROE1300]

Being 74 as well I remember when we just called it camping.

[@sargevining]

When I was a kid and we went back to school, nobody asked "What did you do this Summer?", they asked "Where did you go camping?". Thanks for watching!

[@ROE1300]

@@sargevining I have that same memory. It seems you devoted classic camping guys are doing it the way it was actually done by Sears, Kephart, and Kochanski, the bushcrafters are imitating it with modern gear. In bushcrafting it seems it is getting to be more about the new gear than the actual experience. Not being a devoted classic camping guy I am happy to go out with my authentic reproductions of a Kephart knife and hatchet made by the Bullington brothers in Athens, AL, my Kelty A4 backpack, a musette bag by what price glory, the same sleeping bag I used as a teenager in New England, and some modern cooking kit.

[@sargevining]

@@ROE1300 I actually like going camping 60 years ago more than 100 years ago, but I find more folks wanting to do the "really old" stuff. Wait another 1015 years----

[@ROE1300]

@@sargevining 😂😂😂

[@ElenoorvanderKam07]

I started being interested mainley in bushcraft, but now i think classic camping and doing things the 'old' way is much more interesting. Keep the video's coming!

[@sargevining]

Thanks! I'm hoping that the vendors I see coming online will be able to provide reproductions that make it possible for folks to get out and go camping 100 years ago. While most of the original stuff is "bombproof", its still 100 years old----- Thanks for watching!

[@ScottCarlson-cz7wj]

Old stuff makes my heart go pitter patter. It has character, and helps one visualize that time in history. My oldest possession is an 1832 pocket New Testament. I like to picture it in the pocket of a mountain man. I love history too so, adding it to camping all fits together.

[@sargevining]

I call it "Getting into the heads of the original participants." It helps one imagine how those folks were interpreting the world around them---and there was a LOT going on in the world around them at the time. Thanks for watching!

[@craigrobertson6082]

The title sold me right away. Excellent video. Doing any field work with original equipment is tough, modern day gear makes life in the backcountry much, much easier.

[@sargevining]

As I said in a comment above, using Old Stuff (or accurate reproductions) is a bit harder, but when you're finished, you done did something. Thanks for watching!

[@WayPointSurvival]

I really enjoyed the video! Also, the description of terms was very valuable and I hope that folks pay attention.

[@sargevining]

I think folks are looking for something new to do, and doing something old might be the something new they're looking for. Best way to find what you're looking for is knowing what to call it. Hope to see you at Squirrel Camp!

[@WayPointSurvival]

@@sargevining I'm planning on being there!

[@57WillysCJ]

I feel your pain my friend. I really wouldn't mind people doing camping in the 50s, 60 and 70s. I trust David Wescott's definition of classic camping as both he and the late Steve Watts were primitive intructers for decades before venturing in to classic camping. Bushcraft is a way to make survival videos interesting and in some ways make believe you are being primmitive. Believe me I was in to those as well as the long hunter period. James Bender's hob series is more 20th century bushcraft than what most show. By the way I prefer woodscraft or fieldcraft both of which are suplanted by bushcraft or fused with survival. Fieldcraft is what every decent 20th century hunter and fisherman practiced as normal living and set them apart from most of the city guys. Many times it's attributed to southerners but every small farmer or rancher everywhere new it. I got into classic camping as it's my late father's teen years as well as before that I was into the period of the Sante Fe and Oregon trail days as well as later in to the Indian wars up to the 20th century. I no longer have a horse and I am not in shape to ride one so as a antique and vintage car buff classic camping as well as post WW2 to the mid 60s are my thing.

[@sargevining]

Growing up in Southern NH I'd hear camping and hunting stories told by grandparents, parents, and uncles of all of my friends, and many of those stretched back into the '30s (and the '20s in the case of the grandparents). This pretty much naturally led me to try and experience what they did, at least for a few weekend a year.

[@longrider42]

I guess I'm just odd, since I do not understand what the term "Bush Craft" means. I just camp or hike. I don't carve spoons are any odd stuff like that. I carry the right tools for wood prep. A good knife, a folding saw, and a light axe or tomahawk. But that's just me.

[@sargevining]

You're doing it right, that's pretty much what I do. There's a lot of overthinking in modern "Bushcraft". I figure if you're going to do some overthinking, might as well learn some History while you're at it. Thanks for watching!

[@KevinSmith-yh6tl]

I honestly found your talk very enlightening on the subject. 👍

[@sargevining]

Thanks! Wanna go camping 100 years ago?

[@KevinSmith-yh6tl]

@@sargevining Sounds good 👍

[@Wdstroud]

I like the term "Classic Camping."

[@sargevining]

I do too, and I hope that folks come to use it and understand what all it means. Thanks for watching!

[@DF4Trap]

Good conversation.

[@sargevining]

Thanks! I hope I've peaked some interest. Thanks for watching!

[@jimsullender3435]

The old ways are proven way , if it ain't broke don't fix it !😊

[@sargevining]

In a way I agree, but in another I can see why iso-butane stoves and down filled sleeping bags were invented. Thanks for watching!

[@ostekuste3646]

My camping and gear is all over the spectrum. I have “modern” bushcraft gear, and early 1900s vintage gear. There’s a sprinkling of my favorite military surplus gear from 1940s-1960s that I have acquired. I just don’t get along well with modern high speed, delicate gear. After this video I feel I need to consider focusing a little bit on classic camping as you defined it, it seems it may be what I’ve been looking for.

[@sargevining]

I find a certain satisfaction with getting Old Stuff to work as good as New Stuff does. Yah is fiddly and sometimes you gotta hold your tongue just right to get it to work, but when you do, you done something. And you're right about delicate stuff vs Old Stuff. The term "Bomb Proof" was invented to describe Old stuff and old designs. Thanks for watching!

[@jamesellsworth9673]

I guess that I am more of a 'mix and match' fella when it comes to Campcraft. I would like to own and use a brass round-wick paraffin camp lantern. I prefer to use a Russian Bear Market expedition tent for its extra stability and weather resistance. I have tried to set a fire using flint, steel, and the proper sequence of tinder, twigs, and so on. I prefer using a Fero rod or a Butane match to start a fire. I use wire rather than natural fibers for lashings because I am not good at tying knots or making cordage. Mostly, I find the Old Ways are informative to visit...but I would not want to live there.

[@sargevining]

Understood. Yah, its a good weekend gig---and I might do a week---but I've spent too much time with iso-butane stoves, nylon hammocks, and permethrin to want to do it for any extended period of time.

[@1961MJS]

If you go to way point survival he’s got an excellent video on how to make one ,I did mine last night and it cost less than $10

[@sargevining]

James may have gotten the idea from the video I did of a pack a friend of mine got when he bought a tent from around 1912. James' design differs somewhat and might be an improvement. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqusnKxmmpigjsU&pp=gAQBiAQB

[@behindthespotlight7983]

Were I able to attend Mr Dyers squirrel camp this year, and were I subsequently able to drop a potential conversation starter around the campfire to engage with Sarge, James, Sean, Dave and others; here’s the question I might pose. “Gentlemen imagine how massively different vintage camping would have been had World War 2 not occurred when it did. Imagine the hundreds of huge leaps in innovation, across dozens of manufacturing sectors were fostered through those six years from 1939 to 1945. Imagine how differently the entire nexus would have developed. From National Parks to backpack materials, para cord to navigation, flashlights to boots.”

[@sargevining]

You might have a hard time interjecting that subject into the middle of us discussing the current state of Classic Camping. We're pretty excited about what we're seeing. Its either wishful thinking or folks are seeing something else they can do in the woods besides argue about how many knives a guy needs. WW2 is indeed responsible for the kind of camping gear we have today, and it amazes me that here we are almost 100 years from its beginning and we're still figuring out different ways to make the materials and the stuff we make with them.

[@paulotoole4950]

The term bushcraft (I believe it is an Australian term originally) comes from Mors Kochanski's book Northern Bushcraft and it is mainly trying to do survival the way people who lived in the area did it. It is not survival because it is about willing going into the wild with your knowledge and kit. The point being the more knowledge the less kit. One of the other tenets is to not take for granted that something works and look at the science behind it. I do agree that there is a lot of bad and some very good out there. I love this channel as I spend a lot of time looking at modern kit and wondering who it is made for? This leads to making my own and wanting to use more natural materials. I would not consider myself a classic camper however the old ways are often a lot more interesting than modern ideas.

[@sargevining]

Making the gear is what I think is the best of this thing, especially for 1890-1920. During those years there was likely more home made stuff on the trail than anything store bought. Hundreds, if not thousands of individuals and local or regional vendors each trying to see what works and what doesn't and why. It all came together sometime in the middle 30s when the basic form and function of gear was decided on and nothing much has really changed except the materials and fuels. Thanks for watching!

[@NathanG454]

I recently picked up a Boy Scout tent from the 1960s off of eBay and use it with my boys for camping. I’ve always been kind of a traditional camp/Bushcrafter. I wish somebody was out there making reproductions of those small wall tents.

[@sargevining]

I'm working with a fella right now on some vintage tent designs that aren't as big or expensive as those we see today. I hope to have a video out in a month or two. I think folks will be happy. Thanks for watching!

[@Blrtech77]

Sarge, I enjoyed the video and terminology lessons. Who says google is always correct? lol BTW I like your t-shirt. Take Care and Be Safe!

[@sargevining]

The Coffee That Won The West! Thye used to offer it packaged in the original bricks and it was great to have for Living History. Unfortunately, they ended that practice a while ago, and all I got was a tee shirt. Thanks for watching!

[@tomjeffersonwasright2288]

i see classic camping as the old cerca 1910 campcrafting, where they made a semi-permanent camp, with sekf made furniture, fireplace, dug latrines, and the whole mess. They also made a lot of their own gear, or adapted everyday articles. People like Nessmuk and Kephart. It was comfortable to live in, but left a huge mess on the location. In the 1960s came leave no trace camping, where after you left, the next guy enjoyed as much natural beauty as you had, with no blackened rocks, tree stumps, or decaying "bushcraft shelter" trash. About the same time, ultralight was getting popular. But it wasn't until after 2000 that ultralight materials and designs like Cuban, Kevlar, Dyneema, and other synthetics came into common use. Now I see "hikers" who call a uber to go to a rented room at night, use electronic guides and bring city noise into the wilderness, while video recording the whole thing. Truthfully, I find a lot of "bushcraft " videos fake, or just advertising for overweight, overpriced, useless junk that is not worth the effort to carry it. I rather like the grandma, who put on sneakers, loaded stuff from her house in a pillow case, and was the first woman to hike the whole Appalachian Trail. Too many hikers stop hiking to become gear collectors or KZbin sofa survivalists, who know about everything, but have used nothing.

[@inregionecaecorum]

Basically I like to take the best from the past, but not necessarily in a faithful way they would have done then. I think some stuff is simply superior, more durable and environmentally friendly than modern camping gear you might use for one season then discard because fashions have changed and orange is the new black or whatever. I went walking through a local woodland recently only to see folk walking along looking at their mobile phones regardless of the surroundings!

[@sargevining]

One way to avoid the "couch surfers" is to go camping 100 years ago. There's no real good way to fake it, and it takes some serious research to even get started. You're right about the "trashy" old style, but it wasn't all like that. Most folks couldn't afford the weeks long semi-permanent camp. The expansion of trail systems in the '20s and '30s were aimed at the weekend trekker who made overnight trail camps rather than the furniture builders. Its actually more historically accurate, if you're pursuing "the norm", to do overnight camps and it ends up being more "LNT" than the kind that Kephart, Miller, et al wrote about. We have to remember that they were writing for magazines, really weren't spending their own money, and their only work schedule was to write one article a month.

[@DavyRayVideo]

Good points. I'd like to see the reaction of kids to being shown the latrine, and the stumps of small trees cut down to make the seats. We simply can't go backpacking the same way as John Muir and Earl Shaffer. A hatchet, a bible, and some biscuits make for more effect on the woods than we can afford in crowded camp places.

[@tomjeffersonwasright2288]

@@sargevining I WAS camping 70 years ago. and still do. I had or used much of the gear in the video lead in, and still use some of it. I started with 2 surplus WW2 army shelter halves for a tent, a 4 blade Campmor Scout knife, a home made riveted wooden pack frame, and an old red lens lantern my grandfather got working on the railroad. I was raised with what I call "benign neglect". so I got to do pretty much what I wanted.

[@RobertScholz-zp6er]

I’m an old WW2 reenactor my self and wish I had not parted with my bed roll. Would that be something fit for your discussion. Thanks Hobe Scholz #6 Cmdo

[@behindthespotlight7983]

4:58 To this very moment we’ve yet to see any of the better known youtube bushcrafters equip their belts with THE ultimate tool for harvesting shelter, tinder and other camp materials. Namely the red handled, made 🇺🇸 Felco pruning snips. With a cowhide sheath the top of their line run around $130 Approximately the same size as Fiskers orange sewing scissors, the Felco’s cleanly cleave green hardwood limbs up to 3/8th -even 1/2 inch in diameter. But still neatly clip vines and berry canes. Felco’s are the Leatherman Wave of the bush. Canteen and possibles pouch aside the perfect bushcraft belt for most of North America is, IMO, a Mora belt knife, Leatherman Wave and the aforementioned Felco pruners. Add a Swiss Army folder or maybe the good ol’ Buck 110 and we are all set to rebuild a more loving, kinder, new civilization. Oh. And we’ll need an axe. Or roofers hatchet. They offer a tremendous amount of tool power for their weight. Thanks for another great video, Sarge. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@sargevining]

I used to carry snips with me for deer hunting. Snuggle up into a bush and cut some channels to see and shoot through and its better than any tree stand.

[@jeffsadon552]

Can the stopple cook kit be reproduced, I would love to have one of those and I would use it

[@sargevining]

IIRC, Shawn Dyer looked at having some made. Start up cost is astronomical. It could be done, but few could afford it. I asked a friend once how much a reproduction WW1 mess kit would cost. He replied "Well I can sell them at $15 each, but the first one will cost $40,000-----" Thanks for watching!

[@jeffsadon552]

@@sargevining bummer

[@inregionecaecorum]

I do what I do, I sleep in a cot, under canvas and wear natural fibres, split wood with an axe to put in my stove, but I will still take a mobile phone with me :)

[@sargevining]

If you didn't take your phone with you, I'd be disappointed. The cell phone is the single most important safety device for back country camping ever devised. The trick is keeping it charged. Thanks for watching!

[@tomjeffersonwasright2288]

Some real classic camping was Okies camping next to the road as they traveled, Gypsys, Soldiers spending a day or two on the move, and hunters camping as they moved through a large area looking for game,

[@sargevining]

Yah, in a way, I hate terms. I just want to go camping. But you have to have something that kinda describes what you're doing when trying to talk folks into doing it with you, or explaining that you're not really crazy--- Thanks for watching!

[@caminodantoo]

I suspect that “Bushcrafters”, are just wannabe “Old Style Campers”. Personally I prefer Old Style Camping. It reminds me of my father, the camps we made and the fireside stories of characters such as “Archibald Grey Owl”, Jack London, even the early American pioneers, such Daniel Boone…..

[@sargevining]

In a way, I think that folks pursuing modern Bushcraft in search of Old-Style Camping aren't finding it there, and maybe want to run down this rabbit trail for a while. Thanks for watching!

[@markbrandli]

I agree about the research and application of " camping " knowledge ... there is a college degree called " experimental archeologist " . I dvocate that to really learn bushcrafting someone should go back further in history and learn the ways of those from the 1700's to present , they really knew how to live on and with the frontier. To approach bushcraft and camping with that knowledge and modern knowledge is to ( as Kephart said ) is really " smoothing it "! And Yes , I do practice living history , what you do and earlier . Research ... you may be suprised " the more things change ... the more they stay the same ".

[@sargevining]

One of the reasons why I'm pushing this period is because there's a lot of Experimental Archeology and Living History of the 18th and 19th Centuries as it applies to civilian living at a time when living outdoors was the normal course of event. But by the 20th Century, outdoor living became a recreational activity, and I think that holds study and practice back a bit. But the effect on Society of this type of recreational activity had a huge impact on the order of the outcome of wars and financial disasters. I prefer the term "Experiential Archeology" rather than "Experimental Archeology" when it comes to Living History. One is practiced mainly by History Enthusiasts, the other by Academics. Both make important contributions to study. Thanks for watching!

[@weedeater64]

Bushcraft, campcraft, wilderness survival, camping or whatever. If you are waiting for a particular "stuff" to be available on Amazon, you've missed the point entirely. Especially if you are focused on 'classic camping' and , in which the order of the day was to work with what you've got. Also, what better weather than a rainy day for an educational on making a fire?

[@sargevining]

Well, the limitation on fire on a rainy day is deformation of the metal on the stove if its very hot and we get one of those sudden torrential downpours that we call "frog chokers" down here. That and the sudden cloud of steam---- Thanks for watching!

[@mattrees466]

woodscraft you would think is self explanatory to woodcraft working with timber.

[@sargevining]

Couldn't agree more, and if I were King, that's how it would be. Thanks for watching!