Keo & Zels: Why Rassie doesn't need an award

[@SARugbymagcoza32-12]

WhatsApp: whatsapp.com/channel/0029Vaiq92mCRs1imbH5u009 Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/2rWCSlLQzEme22Uu1ff0tj?si=_gPpw1R8RmaZfeVCcj35qQ

[@suewalsh3976]

Rassie did not get the coach of the year, because he is actually the best coach of all time!

[@Boks-i4h]

Well said!

[@GeraldMoses-tl3jz]

😂😂😂😂😂 absolutely! So much that he was even honored with a doctorate

[@craigmorgan4676]

Well if he and the boks could get three,in a row,he DEFINITELY will b the best coach of all time!👌👍💯💯💪🤝🇬🇧🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦

[@ReinierZeeman-p5z]

Well said ❤

[@geoffnelson6756]

Lets get real, Razzie has hit the jackpot with player pool, other coaches are getting more from a smaller player pool, Razzie has made some poor coaching decisions but the player depth covers the cracks.

[@Therugbyman123]

Rassie is the best and the envy of every other world rugby coach, Rassie sets the trend with innovation and a master tactician. He surrounds himself with subject matter experts, this team will get better and better. At least he was recognized with a Doctorate.

[@DirkCoetzee1982]

For me Tonyball has brought enhanced ballhandling and running skillsets to all players, especially the forwards, and secondly keeping the opposition guessing because we are creating so many options on and off the ball. The 2010-2015 AB´s were super succesful because the skillset of every player was incredible.

[@myshepspud1]

Too true about keeping them guessing. Before we all knew they would bash it up even if we were yelling for the 12 to pass.

[@mvubu6823]

ABs had better handling skills for 30 years. I used to be at their practices in the 90s and they NEVER dropped a ball in the backline. We're only just catching up.

[@shaunbentham7361]

That is exactly what it is, it is actually just mind games. Yes we want to expand on the way we want to play but it is more to keep the opposition guessing. The Boks are not predictable anymore! 😊

[@evelyngoeieman564]

Always nice to listen to the 2 of you especially after a Boks game.Educating us about a variety of critical aspects in World, National and Local rugby in a very unique way...loves the humour coupled with professional and mature debate.May you have a safe and blessed 🙌 Festive season with your family and friends God bless 💝🎊🌈🇿🇦💯🔥Boks by ten...and more💪🎊🌍🇿🇦🌈🇿🇦🏆🏆🏆🏆🏈👑😊

[@Burninglash]

Boks midfield is the iron curtain. Thou shalt not pass!

[@davidpeters3857]

Facts

[@chantalottino1671]

You guys are awesome! The energy, the vibe, the commentary❤🇿🇦🇿🇦. Thankyou❤

[@kooora021]

Rassie has a much higher calling that far surpasses a trophy from WR! He’s the best coach of all time! His impact will be remembered for decades to come! South Africa 🇿🇦 is blessed to have Rassie.

[@dakalodk]

no doubt

[@lukhanyosotyingwa1680]

If we played the Mbombela squad barring injury for every game this year we would have put everyone to the sword but at the cost of burning out an aging squad.. We have to take the patchy performances for now in hope that we'll build a super deep team that will go beyond the next world cup .. I honestly like our odds.

[@lukhanyosotyingwa1680]

Rassie will have to win the Superbowl with the current Cowboys squad to stand a chance of winning any recognition in World rugby ... Rassie is pushing for WORLD GREATEST COACH already so we are good over here!!!! 🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦

[@myshepspud1]

I haven't checked in on the Cowboys this season at all and I already know that's an impossibility. 😅

[@lukhanyosotyingwa1680]

@@myshepspud1 jeez you're not missing out on much, they are pretty much equivalent to Wales at this point.. Quarter back is out for a while due to injury and they were horrible even then, mighty Cowboys.😂

[@ravenblack7052]

You're a Lukhanyo! I love your namesake Lukhanyo Am!❤ If and when I see him, I will say, "Luke! I am your mother!" I claim him😂 and Fassie ❤.

[@lukhanyosotyingwa1680]

@@ravenblack7052 funny coincidence, my youngest brother's name is Aphelele.. ❤️😊

[@ravenblack7052]

@@lukhanyosotyingwa1680 😲☺️ Now tell me you both play rugby?🥲❤

[@DirkCoetzee1982]

World Rugby clearly want to be as "inclusive" as possible. (1) PSDT absolutely agree, (2) Satiti absolutely agree, (3) how was Rassie not coach of the year?! (4) as great a he is, how does DuPont win when he selectively decides when to play when other sevens players put their hearts and souls into the 7´s circuit. Would SA have won gold if Kolbe and Arendse also decide to go to the Olympics? Miscariage of justice, Rassie not being coach of the year, Ox not nominated for PoTY.

[@ryancheeseman4688]

Thanks for all the awesome shows this season Lads!

[@Krummbs95]

Rassie vir President !!!!!

[@saintsandspringbokshub1]

Love keo and Zels, some of the best rugby content around

[@Bakkies93]

Thanks keo . Shaldon here 🙌I can’t wait to receive the parcel it’s been a pleasure listening to you guys.

[@sikhothomas4746]

Thanks Keo for your balanced view, I don't know this EXTREME view Zels has on the implementation of Tony Ball. All we want is to take the chances we haven't necessarily taken in the past. Score tries off of our dominance. Put away teams that deserved to be put away. We don't want to change the game plan, we want to ADD to it and improve it.

[@kuhlemkaleni6205]

When Zels compares the stats from the RWC France game and the last game vs Wales, he needs to remember that it took 5yrs to get the Boks where they were in 2023, and that we’re only 1yr into the new investment.

[@robertjan002]

We have to evolve if we want to win the next world cup. Not because it makes us better, but because we can’t win by keeping the same game plan for four years. We need to be unpredictable; it makes us very hard to play against. And we need to craft a narrative that includes us, for example, learning to play the expansive game, and returning having added attack to our dna, or by returning to our dna. That’s just an example. Rassie knows need to peak at the right time, he knows to hold some tricks back, and he knows how to manage the bok story.

[@onskyk]

You Okes are the Spies an Plessis of Rugby shows. Love it!!!

[@lukhanyosotyingwa1680]

7:51 😂😂😂 That Ricky must be from Kraaifontein!!...

[@TukaneMalebe-xg4vk]

You guys are Mad right about the issue around Rassie and the analysis ,He is cooking and he is defiantly cooking for the next rugby world cup and dominance

[@TerryVANRHYN]

Thanks guys - love the show. From your fan club in the Isle of Man.

[@DuaneVoigt]

Zels’ stats must be underscored by the fact that 51 players are learning the system of play.

[@kittaviljoen5674]

You 2 are so funny! Really enjoy listen to you guys. Thank you. South African from Savannah Georgia US.

[@loyisozono4223]

Thanks for another great show guys, infact ya'll been feeding us great content this whole year, complimenting this great Bok season we've just. Thank you! 👊 Boks by 10 and more forever 🏈🏆🇿🇦

[@alexwakefield4717]

I would like to se a world player nomination system that works as follows. World nomination Gold medals for Front row, Ox. Middle row, Eben. Back row, PTSD. Inside back, DDA. Outside back, Cheslin. Overall trophy winner gets a trophy as well, PTSD. Same with coaches, gold medals for 7’s, 15’s, mens and woman’s etc. with the trophy obviously going to Dr Erasmus. Love the show guys, have not missed an episode since it started. 👍🏻

[@soulrestoration5486]

"How do you remember all of that. thats terrifying"

[@Kid_Senekal]

Rassie is the oke awards are going to be named after

[@adrianpmalloy]

"Wie is jo Pop" - Love it Gents...Awesome summary. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Magz-101]

@30:25 Zel’s analysis has one major flaw. The learning curve is so steep at these early stages of the “Tony ball”, and the changes in selection are so massive (an average of 10 changes per game), that comparing the WC style with the new style at this stage of the learning curve is academically flawed. Give the team a year, then start judging them about the “Tony ball” returns.

[@sikhothomas4746]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽, I don't get why he has such an extreme view.

[@simthembilembatha8727]

Also, the stats or metrics that he spoke about like territorial dominance,passes and carries are already showing massive improvements its just the conversion of those chances that we are creating that needs improvements most of our moves die at 22 due to handling errors and stuff like that ,but thats due to our new style still being tried out.

[@Magz-101]

@ 100%, not to forget that we also score tries that are reviewed. Like the Siya and KL’s ones last game. That shows we cross the opposition’s white line more times with the new system than we did before

[@kristian762]

Agree with Keo regarding Tony ball and the Wales game. This won't be our first choice game plan in the big games but it's going to build the ability to turn it on when the opportunity comes. It also doesn't hurt to play a flat out running game and tire the opposition out before the bomb squad comes on then bring Polly on and revert to game management. That's what worked against France in the end. Didn't work against England though...

[@LibertypopUK]

great pod guys !

[@davidpeters3857]

Great craic as always

[@jonathantyfield1952]

Hi guys, thanks for all the content for 2024. Please get those Boks by 10 shirts in time for Xmas.

[@basharatmohammed4561]

Love these rugby insights, This shows gets better every episode.

[@jaymanxv]

The banter kings are back. Sith Lord and Apprentice.

[@GeraldMoses-tl3jz]

Hey guy's first time commenting on this show, love this show! And humor you guys bring... they are anti Rassie because Rassie beats teams with with their ever changing rules and laws... He's in their head and they dislike it with a passion... There'll be monuments, stadiums, and probably airports named after Dr Rassie Erasmus!

[@twoface_janus]

Always put a smile on my face. Priceless!

[@IanBlair-e6s]

Great show guys - watching from the Kings Cross 6.27pm to Cambridge. On the analysis by Zels in not the 51 players and the try outs that are limiting the return of T-ball and not the running game itself? When u mix a team like that and im glad they’re doing it your always going to struggle a bit to put it all together 100% - no pain no gain 🇿🇦🏉

[@Burninglash]

They also didn't give best coach to handson in 2015. Absurd that the 2 best rugby teams coaches were both snubbed.

[@fanieroos1816]

Please get Rassie as n guest on the show sometime🙏

[@dimitromoses]

😂😂😂😂 Jy vat my vir n pop!!!😅😅😅😅 Hilarious, great show, guys!!!😅😅😅😅😂

[@stephenjudge4356]

So awesome to get opinions that aren’t just the same tired stuff rolled out again and again. I need this weekly fix! Great show guys

[@ivanbelelie5116]

Absolutely love you okes! "World rugby, julle vat ons vir 'n pop" 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@aridembo1693]

Dear Keo and Zels, (and Rikki of course) love the show, an avid fan and watch every week. As we are almost 3 weeks away from Christmas, wouldn't it be a wonderful Christmas present for all your viewers, if you managed to get Rassie on the show before the end of the year? You could call it Boks, Biltong and Banter! come on guys, make it happen. Santa Rassie in a Salads Don't win Scrums jersey!

[@angelodupreez8788]

Santiago Carreras. Very Underrated player.

[@myshepspud1]

I actually prefer it. Think of it guys when we used to get the wrong rub of the green (think around 2011) and it seemed like referees were actively against us from the south and THEN the north when we went up north.. Because of our perceived "dirty play", "negative" rugby. They all smiled when we won 2019 because it was a surprise. Like oh SA little bro, you got beaten by Japan- now you're here.. Good for you. Then last year it's a begrudging well, 3 1+ wins.. They must have character. This year, the first year I've heard most pundits say World Champions and really mean it. I've watched NZ, English, an Aussie and Welsh YT channel and they without reservation give us due praise. That all preludes to now. Do we want to be a silent deserving champion, or one that's in everyone's face about what we deserve. Count it as a blessing he didn't get coach of the year. He's already gone from nemesis to WR with his approach to the game to (Like Tom Brady in SuperBowl 51 if you know you know) having to hand him the trophy last year. I like how people refer to us now. The reality though is eventually everyone turns against a constant winner so may as well have the moments others know you the best- know you should've got the award but didn't- under your belt. Like a Di Caprio.

[@ayandawebster5005]

Those stats don't include player continuity, cause that's the key to Tony ball.

[@alexwakefield4717]

Agree with Keo, in 3 years time we have more ammunition and artillery… Can adapt when the hard and fast Aussie pitches in the world cup arrives 👍🏻Zels understands the numbers and big picture, good stuff guys

[@ghersmoses744]

Forget what they say Rassie will always have the sword and 2xWC

[@mrange20]

I agree with the alternative TB option in the Boks play. We have not seen the Boks putting the perfect game because of the creation of depth in the squad. When 50 players have the skills to execute the 2/3 alternative game plans and are comfortable with it, then no team in the world will beat us in the next 10 years!

[@vdm568]

Not picking Rassie just give us all another boost 😂

[@magicbreed7760]

Absolutely awesome show guys! I love listening to you guys! Each of you so different in some of your rugby views but I love those slight differences in perspective. Both great knowledge of the game while having fun making me laugh. Awesome show! Thanks guys. Will keep watching. Coach of the year Rassie... everyone knows that Even though PS was fantastic my player of the year definitely Ox I do think the French are much closer to us than Zel might believe. If we played them 3 times at any venue. We would win 2 and them 1. All 3 games be either by 1 or 2 points. We are that close. I feel this is an incredible French side. The best ever. Same as us. But we are slightly better. From ranked 3 onwards there is a much bigger gap and Ireland gone way back. If the Irish team was a 9 at the last WC then this Irish team is a 7.5 max Anyway have a leka day guys

[@MobBarley00]

I think I’ll trust Rassie over Zels. But thanks for the effort.

[@JackN13_]

there are 2 positions i feel have been neglected #4 and #12, we cant depend on etzebeth and de allende forever, and there seems to be no younger guys coming through

[@myshepspud1]

What about Julius? I haven't watched much of the Sharks of late but in Bok u20 highlights he looked promising. I'd argue Esterhuizen but he's older now.

[@magicbreed7760]

Oh yes also wanted to mention. With regards World team of the year. 1-7 All Boks. 8 Savea, 9. Du Pont, 10. Pollard, 11. Arendse, 12, 13, De Allende and Kriel, 14. Chessy, 15. Fassi I think Du Pont as our 9 would give us a 10 point plus win over France where at the moment it's a 1 or 2 point. He is that good Anyway take care and keep the great shows coming! Have an awesome festive season whether you celebrate it or not. And be safe

[@thesirzone4428]

we are 3 years away from the next world cup, and therefore I can see the logic in developing a team that can adjust year by year to peak in 2027 with game plans that can be used for each of the 3 knockout matches....I hope they get it right. I only concern is the state of the aging boks by 2027, whether they will still be performing...

[@orlandosadie6283]

Keo is the elephant in the room based on memory bank skills❤it

[@WeClownin]

Another benefit of tonyball is less wear and tear on the players from playing the direct approach week in week out. And don't underestimate the enjoyment the players are getting from it. PSDT recently said he's loving playing in the outside channels. This enjoyment has a positive effect on the rest of his and the other players' performances.

[@markisaacs5277]

Rassie is in the head of World Rugby. ....... And they can't handle the Man... Our Best and Proudly Springboks

[@Burninglash]

Mate, you are not seeing the picture. In any change process you go through a drop before it gets better. What it's adding is an instinct for attacking opportunities. It's adding an extra complexity for our opponents defense susyem. If we are capable of attacking from.everywhere then it means that the defense is overloaded and that opens holes. It also means that teams can't work us out in the next 3 years. The biggest risk is not innovating enough to keep opponents 9f balance. What the Wales game showed is that we are increasing our dominance.

[@The_Consigliere]

No Zels, I disagree with regards to the Tonyball return. What score line would you have been happy with against Wales to be convinced by the effectiveness of Tonyball? We could have easily scored another 4 or 5 tries if we were more clinical.

[@ruankoen7090]

Zels comparing world cup games vs using over 50 players in an international season Winning 11 out of 13 games . We have been looking for a Springbok team to perform outside of a World Cup and now we have it

[@SHUTUPNOWW9360]

We need a Rassie collaboration with Keo & Zels!!!!

[@kumquat4543]

Meanwhile Antoine Dupont as good as he is gets 7s player of the year for playing 25% of the year

[@Goggawie]

😂

[@Goggawie]

Its a joke

[@Smoke_C]

Overrated in 15s too.

[@stephenstrydom1]

Love these guys and this show..

[@garymeyer4273]

We are only going to start loosing rather than winning once the current coaching plan/ attitude changes.

[@fernandodesousa6543]

Great content, thank you

[@johanpotgieter5949]

A Champion MUST HAVE a FULL toolbox. Like Muhammed Ali who sometimes did "rope-a-dope" etc and very little real boxing but then he would SUDDENLY EXPLODE with a dizzy array of punches. That is how the BOKS should play, depending on the opposition.

[@sikhothomas4746]

👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽, I don't know why Zels wants to limit us.

[@TheSupachef69]

I guessHaving the option and experience of playing Tonyrugby can be equated to a boxer having the southpaw stance in his arsenal.

[@BlazeEigs]

15:24 ...naaaaaaaaaaierrrrrrrrr

[@MuhammadMotala]

About time gentlemen almost thought we weren't getting a video

[@johnnyeveritt5695]

As youse mentioned : With Rassie NOT being awarded * Coach Of The Year * by the arbs of World Rugby is INDEED a compliment; being the exact same as these-a days NOT being nominated to or installed into * The Rock-n-Roll Hall Of Fame * for musicians ! Like WR; that House Of Ill-Repute has also degenerated into a meaningless DEI gemors; trying to be everything to everybody and therefore utterly detracting from the status of such an accolade ! Yeah : Rassie has the sword AND South Africa as back-up behind him ! 🤙✊️👊💫💥🏉🇿🇦

[@andrewmakin8151]

outside of scrums and lineouts, SA forwards and backs are becoming interchangeable in play. that is formidable and what tonyball seems to really be about, no?

[@subhuman119]

What ever Tonyball is, it doesnt work

[@brettwalker8339]

Taking nothing away from that GREAT NZ Era but world rugby wasn't as strong as it is now .These days there is about 10 teams that on any given day can turn you over

[@keithfinch1053]

Great show lads

[@noctali8049]

52 players played. Who stood out? For me that's ez, Fassi, Elrich Louw and Thomas du Toit. 💪

[@lazarfriend1115]

You guys are like seriously funny!!😅

[@UlrichHoltzhausen]

I think with all the law changes a certain amount of evolution in play style is a must. The RWC is also in Australia on dry tracks (usually). And the final point, we need to secure investment and being a likeable team that can do some flashy stuff helps win over more fans and sell merchandise etc.

[@chillipeppa51]

You guys are hilarious 😆🤣......jay vat my vi n pop!

[@shanecollins3811]

Zels im with you. SA lineouts, mauls and breakdowns have not been anything like they have been in 2019 or 2023. I think from memory we won 98/98 lineouts at 2019 WC, our lineout is now way poorer. Our rucks seem to be worse as we have been beaten by Ireland and NZ there and in a few other games we have ended up with our 9s getting terrible ball due to late counter rucks thats push players onto them. This is due to our flanks being on wings i suspect. The reality is for every minute spent on perfecting this new creativity something has to give. I think this is best summed up by us losing many lineouts v Scotland and Victor Matfield, the greatest lineout exponent of all time, pulling his hair out saying why are we going to 4 man lineouts if we losing them. Then i stumbled upon the answer in a NZ show where 2 players coached by Tony Brown had a giggle about his love for 4 man lineouts...For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and it seems to me we maybe be better on the eye but not actually more effective. Maybe a few more tries but also a few more leaked, lets remember Boks were hardly poor in 2019 and 2023, ask that NZ team who got hammered at Twickenham sans #Tonyball

[@tappie34]

@zels, do you think that the point production will go up when they get more used to the system?

[@mikezog1030]

I don't think you guys appreciate just how lucky we were against France. By all accounts we SHOULDN'T have won against France, but for the bounce of the ball and a few individually brilliant performance. Against some teams, like the Irish, you beat them by keeping possession away from them because they have peak attacking plays. We lost in Durban because we kept giving them possession. So we hold onto the ball. Now what happens when you hold onto the ball but you don't know how to attack with it? You have to be able to carry on play.

[@bmsavary]

It would be amazing to set up a Springboks vs World XV (best of the rest). We can only dream....

[@joesgoogling3984]

Hi gents. Thank you for your show. Off the topic: what do you think of David Campese's Autumn Series team of the week?

[@geoffnelson6756]

SA biggest asset is their workrate, every player gives 100% often they are outplayed, but the power of the replacements takes its toll on a tiring opposition and they fight for the full 80 mins

[@heyeksay]

Zels, different games, different levels of consistency in team selection, more complex and unpredictable for opposition to breakdown … I don’t think 19 & 23 style will win 27, partly because WR will be moving the goalposts aswell 😂

[@bevanmanchest2635]

Jou mase....... I laughed so much 😂

[@andrewmay1238]

We don't need World Rugby to tell us who is the best. 🎉. The Boks 🎉is the best..

[@lukeboshier]

If Sasha is short listed for break out player yet stands behind DMac - belaglik

[@rfp389]

He has 3 World Cups, 1995, 2019 & 2024.

[@StevenBenjaminAuthor]

I think for the ROI of "Tony-ball", you have to factor in the constant change of personnel from game to game, so this year there has been a bit of disjointed-ness, which has affected the success of, or the efficiency of the attack. Had they simply focused /kept on with 23-30 players you'd see a lot more consistency and a higher reward for the new style of play, but in using 50+ players, there's a lack of fluency at stages - but more players are exposed to the style and will be more settled next year. So the Boks inconsistency this year is understandable, but there are other factors behind the negative perception of Tony-ball

[@johannlerouxvanniekerk4835]

What was the average number of changes per game to the start 15 and match day squad in 2024?

[@albertvanlingen7590]

Don't be so hard on the Boks. Rassie made the most changes between tests possible without losing. Its gonna get better. Tony B said he is not going to change the SA DNA but just add another layer to our attack.

[@sikhothomas4746]

Zels doesn't seem to understand this, he's got this EXTREME view that we are going to throw defence out the window.

[@Qminnie1]

35:02 nou is sy stil gepraat…fokkit julle is snaaks. Best rugby podcast in the world. Groete van Brisbane.

[@tyronsabatta8883]

Doris is world class guys. I’m a bit surprised with the hate on him. Prob the best play vs us in the home series vs Ireland.

[@BlazeEigs]

15:54 for me this is actually the biggest blunder of all by world rugby. They can have their little 'hey lets pick a world team' game but not having Boks play grand slam is like boxing vs UFC.

[@mjribes]

The French 7s coach has coached his team for a few years now and the French 7s team has been mediocre until 2024. All of a sudden this year France 7s fantastic and they pin it on this unknown French coach? Maybe, just maybe, it had nothing to do with this coach and more to do with a certain French scrummie playing 7s this year.

[@marcthomas3053]

With Rassies current approach of building depth and experience I don’t think we will put together an 80min like the AB team of 2011-2015, they had basically the same team week in and week out. Rassies boks are on a different path for WC 27, it’s not his plan at the moment to pick the same team every week to play consistent and slick

[@BlazeEigs]

30:25 great analysis and it may prove out. I would say that 4 years out we can invest. We've only just started with this approach and return on investment is slightly down but surely can and will improve. Another comparison to make is how where we in the 1st year after all our other world cup wins. It cant just simply be that players took a chill. Then as you pointed out all the changes and so forth. I'd be totally happy for them to give another full season of this. Not saying we can neccessarily just 'click back' as everyone is saying but two years out would be enough. I have a feeling attacking rugby will be on display in Oz '27. A bit like that super season where the Warratahs decided all out attack to put bums on seats and ended up winning. It can be done. Anyway, we'll see what Jaques says when he comes back.

[@BlazeEigs]

And yes I know facts don't care about my feelings. 😂

[@daviddempster8717]

Skitterend uitstekkend manne🇿🇦