Sara Hess and the Fan-Ficification of House of the Dragon

[@savagebooks7482]

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[@王征服]

17:26 I've now learned a new word from you ("apoplectic") and now am going to use it in my speech whenever I want to describe "stupid mad pissed".

[@supsup335]

I have yet to finish te video, but i can see how all four statements about the finale can be true: the budget might have been more limited, so the had to reallocarte resources. To do that, they move the battle into the next season, and with that they found they had too much time for the story the wanted to tell. So, they asked for the season to be shortend, to make the story flow better, instead of streaching it out, and hope to have the extra resources in the next season, if not, they still have enough time and money for everything. So, to make it sound sweeter, they say "to give it better pacing, beginning and end", while saying leaving the series on a somber note was a "brave choice". I think it was, cause it takes balls to knowingly disappoint a fandom, even if it is for very good reasons. And i think that wording "brave choice" was also meant as a shield for themselves against critics and fans alike, to hopefully soften a blow they knew was coming. So yes, all their statements complement each other, intersecting on the edges, rather than contradict. Still doesn't excuse the reat of the problems though.

[@thedragondemands5186]

Part 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIDOhnhpe66MaMU Part 2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKOlf3uLhZ2JjJo

[@johnstajduhar9617]

Tom Glynn Carney is 99% of the reason Aegon II comes off so interesting and sympathetic. He absolutely gets it and makes the most of every scene he's in, whether its big or small.

[@inease4321]

your definitely right had been another actor and my god would ago be as boring and unitressing as the rest(apart from aemond)

[@MrFredstt]

Facts. You can tell TGC has read the books, loves Aegon, and tries his damn hardest to make the show good

[@queenxx1690]

He is stage actor and he was found on stage when woman who cased saw him in this role and Phia who play Helaena also they actually went to the same drama school

[@queenxx1690]

@@MrFredstt he did and in s3 he said he wants to be in writing room

[@vikingthedude]

Yeah he’s an absolutely magnanimous actor

[@Mrz-bq2yb]

Allicent and Rhaenyra meeting in person not once but TWICE is so flabbergasting. Really gives off season 8 GoT fast travel vibes.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

It’s not that they meet in person is the problem, it’s how EASY they are able to meet with very little obstacles in their paths to do so.

[@erhiueQWEF]

the fuck are you talking about? both times, Rhaenyra and Alicent had the assistance of a trusted knight while they infiltrates the enemy camp while in disguise. Alicent and Rhaenyra didn't just *waltz in* to each other like you're implying. 😂 ​@@Gadget-Walkmen

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@erhiueQWEF Lol No bro, Rhanerya was somehow able to sneak past all those guards wearing nothing but nun outfit while a BLOCKADE was happening is NOT something that’s their easily able to do AT ALL here for either one of them. It’s not that they “Waltz” by each other, it’s how easy they were able to sneak to each other’s castles like it’s nothing as it could have been a whole episode of them planning to just SNEAK into each other’s places as they did. The one person who can easily sneak into places like that is Arya because she can literally turn invisible but she’s not in this show at all. It doesn’t matter if they had a knight or not. Two people are NOT sneaking into TWO different with guards all over the place as easily as they did in the show. What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense at all.

[@kake1604]

Dragonstone and King's Landing are basically right next to each other, wtf are you talking about "fast travel?"

[@464528]

Strong Belwas was casted as Alyn Velaryon

[@wafflingmean4477]

"It's Game of Thrones. Civilians don't matter." That should have gotten her fired. That's as bad as someone saying "It's Lord of the Rings. The Shire doesn't matter."

[@JaMeshuggah]

Sadly that's the type of thing that gets you HIRED

[@kikrinman1450]

I don't mean to split hairs, but that statement could imply the general reception of common folk in the narrative at large. Obviously, they fucking suffer, mainly due to the apathy or sadism of the nobility, but at large they aren't really cared for by the majority of the cast(e). Even The Shire and it's residents while watched over by Gandalf, is clearly an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of territory, that usually isn't involved in the "greater plot" at large. So in a hyperbolic way, the statement kind of makes sense, but it's absolutely not what she meant by it.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

​@@kikrinman1450 you are giving them too much credit

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

It's a little bit of a sprinkling of classism (in a show that supposedly purports social justice) to say the lives of the poor/less powerful don't even matter, and only caring about the most privleged, wealthy, and powerful women.

[@hez859]

​@Captain_Insano_nomercy nahhh you're all a bunch of rage bait

[@alexman378]

Considering what civilians do during the storming of the dragon pit, civilians not only count, they’re pivotal to the process of the whole war and Targaryen dynasty in the long term.

[@Keram-io8hv]

"Storming of Dragon pits was maester propaganda made to disrespect Rhaenyra and it was actually Otto Hightower with Alicent murdering baby dragons while drunk and laughing with Aegon paring innocent maidens in background until they were defeated by Syrax the Magnificent"-Condal and Hess probably

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

The writers will absolutely omit that from the show to make Rhaenyra more sympathetic ... or rewrite it to be the Greens fault 🤦

[@masterplokoon8803]

​@@Keram-io8hvbut Alicent is a woman and as such cannot do anything bad.

[@irondragonmaiden]

@@lordfreerealestate8302 Uh, did you not read the books? Yes, they turned on Rhaenyra... because her taxes were the straw that broke the camel's back. Aegon was WORSE in squandering money since he wasted money GOLDEN STATUES of the brothers he didn't give a fuck about and Aemond is the one going full genocide against the Riverlands

[@behurastudio]

Yup the Storming and the Riot enforces the classic idea of “Government should fear their people”

[@HK-gm8pe]

she really said civillians dont matter in this show...holy thats horrible, the whole dance of the dragons story has a lot of civillian plot in there...they are SUPER important

[@luv-like.a.papercut]

its also crazy to hear when you have a character like mysaria that is supposed to be all for the little people

[@sillygo0oser]

That’s why I reccomend the first Law Series to any GOT fan

[@HK-gm8pe]

@@luv-like.a.papercut not only that but all the important and BIG things that happen in the story happen becaue of civillians...her saying that they dont matter is basically saying that the story doesnt matter , it is shocking really like he said

[@MA3POLO]

Especially towards the end. If they stick to the source material.

[@guerreiroazul3230]

Do you think she read the books bro?

[@GodKingReiss]

Remember when George R. R. Martin briefly touched upon how much civilian lives matter in his setting? Just a little think piece called A FEAST FOR CROWS.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

Also, something I noticed... Sarah Hess when the civilians are being killed by Greens, like Aemond in S2: frames it as Aemond "raining down terror upon the small folk because it makes him feel strong", or Aegon "killing innocent men" Sarah Hess when girlboss Rhaenys of the Blacks kills innocent people, Rhaenyra launches a bloody war for her own power, or lining up dragonseeds as young as children to be burned by Vermithor: "civilians don't count" And this is true is multiple cases, the rules of morality and the way actions are presented conveniently when they come from a particular side. It's like Rhaenyra/girlboss-centered morality.

[@angellover02171]

Most of the book readers hated Feast and Dance.

[@hamzamahmood9565]

George never cared about civilian lives, innocent or otherwise

[@VictorIV0310]

@@hamzamahmood9565?

[@spacecowboy5486]

​@@angellover02171I never heard someone hating on Feast honestly, it's great

[@jackglasper5860]

The ironic thing is Sara Hess has fallen into the very gender stereotypes she despises. By making the female characters queer, empathetic, and reluctant to strive for power, she has actually made them passive (almost modern). She refuses to believe the history of the Dance of Dragons could be right, but the characterisations of Rhaenyra and Alicent in the history are more in line with the reality of starting a Civil War. No one would start a Civil War where thousands will die with the mass murder of their enemies being the result of victory and then be hesitant and empathetic. Only a power monger would do this, but Hess appears to think women aren't capable of this. In other words, she falls into the trap that women aren't capable of pursing power in the same way men are. She writes female characters with an innate passivity and no mind for political power games nor war, which is exactly what the patriarchy claims.

[@IdocarebutIdont]

It was so frustrating to see Rhaenyra complain about the men in her council every two episodes, just for her to sit around and do nothing. The show could have been so good with Rhaenyra and Alicent going full Cercei for their families, but woke Hollywood would never.

[@game_boyd1644]

"So what would you have me do?" How about thinking for your fucking self for once?!

[@Sideshowmanatee]

@@IdocarebutIdont one of my least favorite lines, and the exact moment I gave up on the show, is when Rhaenyra is like playing with a sword and I think Myseria (?) walked in and she says "If only my father would have taught me how to us this" WHAT"?! Why? You have DRAGONS. And even if you didn't have fire breathing reptiles at your disposal, and irregardless of your gender, royal born peoples are not getting into sword fights. They may be trained but that's only ever for show rarely do they need to bother learning combat. That's what fuckin knights are for. AND EVEN THEN, Kings and Queens are politicians, their sword is their tongue. In trying to make her a modern girl boss that turned her into an incompetent, idiotic Queen.

[@IdocarebutIdont]

@@Sideshowmanatee Right? It didn't make any sense, no matter how you look at it. Since when is life easier in Westeros being a knight, who usually just dies in battle, than being a princess / queen? Daemon knows how to wield a sword and still doesn't have any advantage over her. Had to eye roll so hard during that scene, cause it's clearly just a line that nobody really thought about and was just included to push the agenda.

[@fromthegetgo4981]

Spot on

[@Anis3]

I feel like her stance on "civilians don't matter" is so in line with american "girlboss" feminism that fully embraces imperialism and violence as long as women get to be a part of it.

[@MrFredstt]

Not merely part of it but the ones in charge of it

[@jazzjj7665]

Parallels to Obama being praised as a non-white president, even thought he bombed civilians in Libya.

[@JaMeshuggah]

The women calling people traitors for not supporting multiple unjust wars rn

[@SandyCheeks1896]

I breathe a big sigh of relief when I see comments like this and it makes me not feel insane

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

I've never heard of american feminism in THAT regards of any kind of "imperialism and violence" of any kind but what hess said sounds like something Cersei would say.

[@lonegirl2183]

I do find it interesting that Mysaria, a character that was involved in sex trafficking of women and children in the books, is literally turned into the opposite in the show, considering what was done to Aegon.

[@anamariapopa9431]

she got the viserys treatment because the film writers felt that voice needed to be in the room. Hess says she didn't watch GOT, but I guess she read D&D handbook to adapting GOT.

[@arutlit62]

I am hopeful that they are just doing what they did with Shay in the books, so the betrayal hurts more

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@anamariapopa9431 Do you mean that in a good way? I can’t tell.

[@user-op6kt8pg9y]

The show is going down the route of "women=good, men=bad"

[@kedrprao]

Women can’t be bad in new age pop culture media

[@berserk4souls]

You know your writing has caused serious trouble when Aegon “the dipsh*t rapi*t” has become one of the breakout characters on the show. Tom had an impossible challenge and still brought 110% to the role. Even with the writing trying to soften up Alicent and Rhaenyra, it just makes him feel like a underdog.

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Honestly hope the actor gains an award for his performance It's easy for a great actor to interpret a great character but it takes an even greater actor to uplift a horrible character into great status

[@Keram-io8hv]

@@airplanes_aren.t_real Nah they nominated mostly Black actors Like I have nothing against D´Arcy od Smith, I just say they were given absolutely zero scenes to totally shine

[@MrFredstt]

Aegon has become even more likeable because not only is he fighting impossible odds with everything stacked against him in-universe but he's also fighting against Sara and Ryan and their obvious bias against him

[@MrFredstt]

@@Keram-io8hv Man they really can't hide their bias, huh? All this talk about maester and green propaganda when they're writing black propaganda

[@SandyCheeks1896]

They didn’t blunt his character because he’s a straight white man. They let him keep all of his flaws and it paid off for him. They blunted everything nuanced and flawed about the female characters.

[@oppenheimer6321]

I genuinely HATE the whole Alicent misinterpreting Viserys' words thing, it's so dumb, before that episode it was already established that Alicent wanted Aegon on the throne regardless of Viserys' wishes and in the same episode she sees Daemon executing Vaemond, which in theory should have only made Alicent more committed to preventing Rhaenyra from sitting on the throne, but nah, let's make Alicent want Aegon as King just because she thinks she heard it from Viserys even if it contradicts what was established up until that moment.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@oppenheimer6321 i Honestly think it’s just fine and I don’t at all think it’s “sO duMb” because usually some people reveal the truth of what they feel or say at their deathbed so it’s not at all a reach for Alicent to believe that Viserys meant have changed his mind. And not only that, it’s not like it really mattered that much because the green side were going to put Aegon on the throne regardless.

[@mirayc451]

@@Gadget-WalkmenIt is a reach actually because in that same episode she scoffs rhaenyra & daemon that viserys isn’t doing well. Thus she gives him a lot of milk of the poppy which makes viserys in his own words “lose his mind”…meaning that she apparently took the words of a demented old man literally. It makes her look like a naive dumbass, and establishes her as one of the worst written characters in the ASOIAF universe.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@mirayc451 lol bro what? That doesn't make her into the "one of the worst written characters in the ASOIAF universe" AT ALL because it was just a mistake on her part, that's literally it. You're reaching REAL hard when you say that as the scene isn't what you're saying, she gives him "milk of the poppy" to ease his pain, that doesn't mean she believes that he mind isn't active. Viserys says it makes him lose his mind, but not to her.

[@janmalawski4339]

No. Alicent KNOWS she's wrong, she just copes that Viserys meant what she wanted. It's funny how people blame bad writing but the truth is they can't understand fucking nuance

[@michaelc1732]

I don’t think HBO, Sara Hess or Ryan Condal truly realize how much they’ve screwed this up. Especially considering the recent comments from HBO doubling down and denying that the fandom is upset.

[@holysecret2]

HOTD was meant to redeem the entire franchise. It made strides towards that with season 1, but they largely blundered the opportunity with season 2. I'm not sure they can save this story from what they have done to it, from the deep and unnecessary changes they have made.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

that denial was almost like gaslighting yoooooooooooo

[@alek7998]

@@holysecret2 Man, and season 2 had such a strong start. Rhaenyra the Cruel is probably my favourite episode after Lord of the Tides.

[@herotyranus6540]

When did HBO double down?

[@GreyMagee74]

​@herotyranus6540 a few days after GRRM went mask off about the writers room for HotD.

[@Edmonton-of2ec]

Sarah Hess: Civilian don’t count Close enough, welcome back Cersei Lannister

[@9eishitasharma501]

If anything,this makes me miss my game of thrones girlies. They were all so ruthless,cunning and sometimes went on little ego trips just like their male counterparts. Hotd could never have women like cersei and catelyn.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

Sarah just needs to write herself into the story so we can have some interesting women to watch.

[@jeffbachman2949]

​@9eishitasharma501 the women in GOT overall were leagues better. Much interesting and compelling

[@janellejulianajoy]

@@9eishitasharma501 None of these women are on Cersei's level at all. One must own their bullshit openly to achieve that status. Cersei's unapologetic honesty is why she is easily my favorite female character.

[@SuperRainbol]

DnD didn't "ran out of book material" they had enough book material after season 4 to make AT LEAST 2 more season, but they decided to shove almost 2 books in the first half of season 5 and then rushed to the end of the story. DnD got bored with the show after season 4, that's why they rejected more and more extra episodes just so they could end as soon as possible

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

One of my few critiques of this otherwise great vid by a great creator is that he was WAY too generous with D&D. They deliberately cut the show short so they could make a Star Wars film that got cancelled anyway, fired all the other writers for sole credit, bullied the cast and crew horribly. They tried to force Margery's actress to do a s*x scene with a 16-year-old boy but she refused. Several cast members said they were traumatized, injured, or endangered on set. There have been multiple vids exposing D&D as frauds and toxic/incompetent. If not for D&D, the show would likely have ended on a better note. D&D are the nepo-baby sons of billionaires whose dads bought their way into the industry. They had little experience or skill, and pretty much coasted on the skills of those around them until they couldn't fake it anymore.

[@SuperRainbol]

@@lordfreerealestate8302 nah, I do not know anything about the toxic environment on set so maybe you right on that but DnD are good writers and directors, they can make phenomenal TV and they showed that for 4 seasons, it's nonsense to try to say now that they had no part on the good seasons just because they fucked it up the later half. DnD could have adapted the last 2 books just as well as they did the first 3 and then they could have given the show a good original ending, they had the talent for it. The problem is that they got bored after the red wedding and didn't want to do it properly

[@TheRedHaze3]

@@SuperRainbol What made the first 4 seasons work is GRRM. He was heavily involved until he had to step back before season 5 began to focus on other projects, and season 5 is where the series sees a noticeable decline in quality. Even before that, though, you can see the cracks if you're looking closely. E.g. Jon Snow is almost a completely different character in the show. Show Jon has none of the moral complexity of his book counterpart. All of Book Jon's conflicts are some moral dilemma, while Show Jon is just a straightforward good guy action hero. D&D completely ruined Tyrion's character. He literally has no character arc after he kills Tywin. Why? Because Jaime never tells Tyrion that Tysha wasn't a whore he paid to love Tyrion like he does in the books. Game of Thrones was always going to fail, because D&D didn't actually do that good of a job adapting ASOIAF. It's just that you can't see the shitty foundation until it all comes crumbling down. Although even then, because they did such a horrible job with the rest of the house, most people don't even realise there was a problem with the foundation.

[@SuperRainbol]

​@@TheRedHaze3 Martin was not heavily involved in making Game of Thrones, he helped some episodes but overall he just gave DnD his notes. He even said that he wish he had done some things like DnD did like with the Osha character. Your examples show how wrong you are since show's Jon Snow has the same moral problems as book's Jon in the 4 first season (Staying in the wall vs going to help Robb, respecting Craster customs vs basic human decency, loyalty to half-hand's last order vs loyalty to his vows, Iggritte vs the Watch, and so on). And you said they ruined Tyrion in season 4 but your only example is in what came afterwards, and of the changes they made to Tyrion him not asking people "where whores go" (since that's all that revelation changed him) is not even in the top 5 of the ones that made him a bad character from season 5 onwards. You are just wrong.

[@SuperRainbol]

@@TheRedHaze3 ​ Martin was not heavily involved in making Game of Thrones, he helped some episodes but overall he just gave DnD his notes. He even said that he wish he had done some things like DnD did like with the Osha character. Your examples show how wrong you are since show's Jon Snow has the same moral problems as book's Jon in the 4 first season (Staying in the wall vs going to help Robb, respecting Craster customs vs basic human decency, loyalty to half-hand's last order vs loyalty to his vows, Iggritte vs the Watch, and so on). And you said they ruined Tyrion in season 4 but your only example is in what came afterwards, and of the changes they made to Tyrion him not asking people "where whores go" (since that's all that revelation changed him) is not even in the top 5 of the ones that made him a bad character from season 5 onwards. You are just wrong.

[@kingsleyedge304]

I hate this trend of directors snd writers having little to no experience with the source material. Why write for something you don't like?

[@axolotl1777]

Money

[@icecanyon6090]

@@axolotl1777 the funny thing is that they end up getting less money by ruining these shows and getting them cancelled

[@jbatts834]

@@icecanyon6090plus ruining their reputation in the process, which to me is the only the positive of the situation.

[@Spicy_Spores]

It is literally because they think they know better than the experienced storytellers who made such incredible pieces of literature that millions of people enjoy them.

[@TheMikster95]

If Sara Hess continues not caring about the civilians, it’s gonna ruin a major plot development that’s pivotal to climax of the story.

[@chickenstrips5138]

literally bruh… civies may not be hugely important right now but pretty much every major plot development later on happens as a result of public opinion on the blacks and greens

[@exclusive.e]

she's doing alot more damage than that... look into her past works & you'll see the comparison with what she has done with HOTD... it's pretty tragic

[@Mutazili]

Already has, Rhaenyra won't be responsible for the mess in KL, Maelor doesnt exist, Helaena is over Jahaerys

[@itspronouncednikolaj333]

I think they are changing everything so it doesn’t even matter…I regret I watched any of it…I wish the actors good luck

[@garretboyer458]

Despite that quote I think they seem to care about civilian deaths too much. The ratcatchers being hanged was a good example. Also the "war crimes" committed blackwoods that took place off screen. For those who don't know history that was most warfare in medieval times.

[@syti472]

The book fans hate the writing as well. So much of what happens is just nonsensical. We knew this was gonna be different from the get go because Rhaenyra was aged up and Alicent was aged down to make them childhood friends. But their hatred of a each other would’ve still worked with a friends to enemies dynamic instead of the evil stepmom dynamic in the books. Things went off the rails when they 1. made Daemon a way worse person (he didn’t kill Rhea Royce, neglect his daughters, or abandon Rhaenyra in a brothel in the book). 2. Made Rhaenyra somehow better and worse??? She murders a random guy to fake Laenor’s death. But she doesn’t kill Vaemond who gravely insulted her and her sons like she does in the book. She wants to avoid needless death to the point that she looks like an idiot who doesn’t know she’s at war, but she’s willing to blockade and starve Kingslanding, then drop measly supplies that could not feed 1mil people in order to win their support? 3. Started flip flopping Alicent’s character. She pushes Aegon to take the throne. Then moans and cries when that results in a war. She supposedly pushed him onto the throne so that her kids will be safe (As long as Rhaenyra reigned they would be a threat to her rule, so she might have them killed). But then at the end of the season she agrees to let Aegon die so that Rhaenyra can take the throne. This would definitely mean that Aemond and Daeron would have to die as they helped usurp her once, and would inherit Aegon’s claim. 4. Started ignoring common sense. Why is the Queen’s stepdaughter running around the Vale where the mountain clans could kidnap her? Can’t they send out some hounds to track her down? Why is Sheepstealer even in the Vale? George’s dragons specifically make their nests near the volcano on dragonstone. Why would he go all the way to the Vale for food? The Crownlands are closer… Why is Vhagar, the largest animal on the planet relying on stealth to snipe other dragons? They should see her every damn time. Why would Daemon killing a lord Blackwood who swore to follow him make the rest of the Riverlords want to follow him? Daemon gave the orders to kill their smallfolk and torch their crops etc. not lord Blackwood. They shouldn’t be satisfied with that. How did Criston get away with killing people at the Princess’ wedding in season 1? Why did Daemon suspect the Ser Simon of poisoning him, but not the witch feeding him weird shit?

[@game_boyd1644]

Wait, they weren't childhood friends in the book? 😮

[@gameryazov8327]

@@game_boyd1644 No they weren't, 9 years age gap. But she had good relations with Rhaenyra before Ageon was born

[@phloxenheim]

This is legit good faith analysis and I hope it gets the traction it deserves and not just hand waived like all other criticism of season 2.

[@CloudMountainJuror]

This comment singlehandedly makes it likely I’ll actually watch the video. There’s been so much bad faith criticism of season 2 and the thumbnail for this video is super clickbait-y, so thanks for the heads up that it’s actually substantive.

[@cupidsfavouritecherub9327]

Yeah it's tough criticizing a woman in media these days, since people just assume anyone who does so is a misogynistic right-wing chud. And tbh there is a lot of hate due to misogyny going around but we should not overcorrect and downplay the terrible effect she's had on HoTD.

[@anamariapopa9431]

@@CloudMountainJuror this vid proves hess is so much worse than I thought, I gave her a pass cuz she's colored and gay and whatever else box she checked to be on that team and I thought she didn't contribute much aside from token quotas and being a hate sponge, but now I see why she got on everybody's nerves. her interviews are horrible PR, surprised she didn't get a PR coach to teach her how to speak in public.

[@AndrewFrancisIlyrian]

Pussy ​@@CloudMountainJuror

[@bannedmann4469]

It’s beyond good faith, it’s quite generous actually.

[@edmann1820]

As someone who has acted it always perplexes me when actors arrogantly proclaim that they haven't researched their part. If I were playing a Shakespearian character you better believe I'm doing an entire character study on the part from the source material to fully understand what drives them. It's inconceivable to me that a writer would not go even further.

[@erhiueQWEF]

IMO it's to make them sound more academic. same with method acting, stanislawsky was a dog shit actor that never built a career in acting, but his book is sure popular with stars like Dustin Hoffman and Jared Leto.

[@game_boyd1644]

It's such a baffling new development (or an old one I'm just now noticing) for modern writers, actors and producers to disregard the source material of what they're "adapting", and even proudly announce it! You keep on seeing this exact problem with most video-game adaptations, and it's part of the reason they keep failing. Like, no dude, I'm not here to watch your shitty fanfic using my favourite worlds and characters as wallpaper, I'm here to see them re-imagined in a completely new and different medium, while still being faithful to their origins. Is that so much to ask for?

[@B463L]

@@erhiueQWEF they seem to be bragging that the source material is beneath them

[@PandaPanda-ud4ne]

@@game_boyd1644 It´s deconstructivism in a nutshell. They want to connect the material with new meaning, oftentimes it is a negative meaning, without caring for the reason the source material was successful. It is a mean streak, in my opinion. It also has much to do with the ideology of tearing down western successes, in particular, its art and literature, and idealizing non-western culture, that does not interest anybody, really.

[@jessjess23brooks89]

To play devil's advocate: Peter Dinklage never did any research on Tyrion.

[@spintuna671]

A reason why Aegon felt more digestible to me this season is that he actually has consequences for his actions where other characters, specifically team black characters, don't. Even from the first season, he is held narratively responsible. Meanwhile, the story folds like a protective cone around Rhaenyra and Alicent. Rhaenyra conspires to kill an innocent man to marry daemon. It's pushed away as quick as posdible. Alicent put Aegon and Helaena into a child marriage. The story never gives us the time to critique her for it.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

I'm glad you mentioned alicent everyone always goes on about how the show caters to rhenyrea claiming it's real black propaganda when they do the same to alicent the show isn't pro team black it's pro alicent and rhenyrea specifically the past episode only highlights this fact.

[@spintuna671]

@thatoneblackdude3333 tbf Alicent is absolved in certain circumstances. Her selling out her kids without any accountability was abyssmal. But litwrally even she is humiliated over and over again to make Rhaenyra look better. All the Greens are shit on to make Alicent look better and Alicent is shut on to make Rhaenyra look better. Alicent had super valid reasons for why she thought rhaenyra would kill her kids but the narrative never expands on it bc it would make rhaenyra look bad

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

@@spintuna671 the problem is the forcing the prophecy into the story when it isn't important or relevant in this story and making it t a major motivation for both women ruined their characters and made the bumbling idiots .

[@MrFredstt]

Also Daemon doesn't really face consequences for his actions either. The Tully kid pressed him slightly but ultimately still giving Daemon his army without any sacrifice really. Rhaenys also never faces consequences for literal mass murder of hundreds of people. Then there's the fact their change to Aegon was stupid anyway and "maester propaganda" doesn't excuse it as the only source of Aegon watching fighting pits or being a ra pist comes from someone that wasn't even in King's Landing and didn't know Aegon. Their bias so clear, there's no ambiguity or complexity that GRRM loves, and they do everything no matter how ridiculous to bend the story to fit their bias.

[@MrFredstt]

@@thatoneblackdude3333 They're handling of Alicent was atrocious. They really think that Alicent is only a good person when her agency is tied to Rhaenyra's wants and when she's doing everything, including selling out her entire family, in favor of Rhaenyra. It doesn't really serve anything for Alicent as a character in her own right but only to prop up Rhaenyra

[@Kam_i_]

LocalScriptMan on youtube says that characters are not people, and I feel like that’s what Sarah gets wrong about the portrayal of Aegon. She keeps bringing up real men without acknowledging that story beats within a narrative are placed in strategic ways - that’s why Joffery’s most prominent introductory scene is when Tyrion slaps him and he screams for his mother, and not Joffery’s torture and murder of sex workers from the later seasons.

[@Schloetz]

This is great coverage, especially in terms of Sara Hess. Sometimes criticisms pointed her way devolve into basic name-calling, but you make leveled points. Man, that "civilians don't count" quote. I get wanting fresh eyes on a project, but it can lead to a situation like this where a writer is disconnected with the fundamental nature of a story - she's adapting a world that has an almost 300,000-word book titled A Feast for Crows that is entirely about why civilians do count.

[@CornG4397]

I feel like the issue with Hess is that she has no one to check her when she makes a bad decision. Like you pointed out Condal wants her to write the women herself without too much input from him. Combined with her decades of experience, I would not be surprised if she has a lot of yes men in the writers room. And would go to explain why she (and Conda) felt like they could ignore GRRM, causing that outburst on his blog.

[@erubin100]

It funny, I keep forgetting that Aegon and Rhaenera are siblings because of how apart they are in age.

[@anamariapopa9431]

neah, they never talk in the show, cuz they shifted the whole thing rheynicent

[@Canadish]

And the fact they literally never share a word.

[@svenskhund3603]

Or because they haven't interacted a single time in the entire show.

[@happilyevernever4289]

They're not supposed to be. Atleast not in the books.

[@aimanmarzuqi4804]

Damn, I also realize that they never actually interacted with each other.

[@rsync9490]

It's not just Hess. They are all involved, hess, condal, hbo execs, all play a role.

[@slyscout101]

You literally posted this right as I’m taking off for an hour and a half drive. What a mad lad 😂

[@wisdommanari6701]

Be safe

[@lolbrunopt]

​@@wisdommanari6701the road is dark and full of terrors

[@Turuial]

It's dangerous to go alone. You should take this with you.

[@Stay_Zerose]

I think what people miss is that Hess is very good at writing small scale interactions. If you give her a scene between no more than 5 character's she can do something amazing with it. The problem is she doesn't tend to pair these moments with the wider narrative, what she writes doesn't consider all of the context surrounding the moment. Again make her do something on a large scale juggling too many character's and she often falls flat, either by mischaracterising existing characters or under developing and devaluing new ones. She makes choices which benefit the scene she is writing in that moment, rather than what advances the narrative as a whole. This is why she is very good a character driven shows where in many way's each episode is very self contained, but falls flat in what is essentially a movie drawn out into a television show to give the story more space to be told. Game or Thrones and House of the Dragon do not have these self-contained scenes, each scene has an impact on the next and sometimes these scene's profoundly impact the show as a whole, so going with the flow for them when you have specific places you have to reach narratively doesn't work. When GRRM writes like this he at most has a few broad strokes, all he really knows when he sits down to write the dance is that *spoiler* Rhaenrya does not become queen, but she ends up with 2 sons that become king and that all the dragon's essentially die off. This is broad enough that he has a lot of free reign with the character's and is given room to explore numerous plot lines through the many perspectives. Hess has to adapt what is already there, she has to write in the context of multiple battles, character deaths and long term arcs which are by in large set in stone. She like GRRM himself struggles to write what has already been set in stone, she want's to do thing in a scene because it feels right not because it meaningfully enhances the plot or themes. This is easier to do in Season 1 because any mis-steps or character driven scenes have a lot of room to be developed off screen in the time skips. Without the skips we essentially see characters flipping to make the most impact and then ignoring it in a following scene which just makes the story feel disconnected.

[@thezerowulf2046]

Sara is probably good at writing a story with no more than 5 gay characters..

[@publiusventidiusbassus1232]

70% of the scenes were women complaining about men being evil or emasculating them to their faces. Rhaenyra calling Daemon pathetic after that little tantrum is the perfect microcosm of how the showrunners view GRRM's work. They took GRRM's favorite Targaryen by his own admission, made him a manchild and "deconstructed" him to put him below their Qwween.

[@Gojeto346]

So many character assassinations, so many plot contrivances, so many plot holes, season three is going to be such a dumpster fire it’s gonna make people understand why everyone was sup up in arms during season two. It feels like how it did trying to warn people about the decline of star wars and marvel.

[@devoid4661]

People would not be upset with the scene if it didnt take up precious screen time during the finale and called the "highlight of the series" by one of the writers it felt like salt in the wound after such a disappointing finale

[@HK-gm8pe]

yeah... I actually also dont understand why they had to make Rhaenyra and Alicent almost like have some romantic connection...thats strange to me,...these 2 should be mortal enemies , they hated eachother...yes Rhaenyra had a thing with Laena which they cut from the show but never did she ever consider to have any feelings for Alicent also that Mysaria thing was weird... there are a lot of queer people in Georges world but they have to make sense... not be there just because....

[@atelalafford4794]

the scene is just plain pandering to a fanbase, all the facts were already established in that damn sept visit, and doesn't actually add anything to the characters nor their relationship, and i say that as someone that likes toxic yuri!

[@beige_projection]

Varys' riddle to Tyrion - Power resides where people believe it resides. So anyone who think that civilians' lives don't matter in this story doesn't understand one of the core messages in the World of Ice & Fire.

[@TheMcMaxwell]

I don't think the problem of a lack of consequences is limited to the expectations of the Game of Thrones fanbase... I'd argue it's just bad writing in general. GoT didn't invent consequences. I'd expect any show which is meant to be taken seriously to have cause and effect, setup and payoff, action and reaction.

[@vincentadultman6226]

this. Rule of Cool isn't a thing, characters like Yoda whipping out lightsabers makes perfect sense in-universe Cars in space? makes sense in F&F verse Rhaenys popping out of the ground? Wtf? Was Sara giggling like an idiot thinking it's cool? Not only is she alone deep in enemy territory, but she killed civilians just to preen herself over their corpses. It's honestly frustrating she or Rhaenyra don't face any consequences for such a public and overt display of idiocy, at least some other stupid scenes are private, two-party scenes. But this is unacceptable

[@queenxx1690]

Daemon in s1 :Dreams didn't make us king dragons did Daemon in s2 :Winter is coming BRO Corlys s1 :History does not remember blood it remembers names Corlys s2 : Rhaena Targaryen would like to be my heir ANOTHER BRO

[@sunfire5790]

Exactly 😂😂

[@fabiolaliano8620]

got did not get bad when they ran out of source material….. they straight up didn’t adapt feastdance

[@SeanORaigh]

imagine if they only read the first three books

[@humbleopulence]

​@@SeanORaighit's starting to look that way. David benniof is quoted as saying "themes are for high school book reports". These people were clearly not the right choice for ASOIAF. As good as GoT seasons 1-4 were, imagine what an ACTUAL adaptation of ASOIAF would be like...

[@Bojoschannel]

I will never stop being mad of the true Euron Greyjoy we never saw

[@chrisrubin6445]

for Dany, they didnt even really adapt Clash either, just fanfic

[@maninform3523]

you're regurgitating what dragon demands keeps pushing, yeah they did make some idiotic changes even at the end of season 4 with no reveal to Tyrion about his hoe wife but d and d as bad as they are couldn't keep going in the direction of an unfinished books so they tried to make their own, obviously in a terrible way

[@KainBooks]

My take on Sara Hess is that she is a talented writer who seems unprofessional. The "Internet Boyfriend" comment is a shining example. It's one thing to incorporate certain aspects of your life experiences when creating your own original work. It's another to have it overshadow the task you were hired for. Do your job. She is a commissioned artist for House of the Dragon, not its source material creator. In trying to make Rhaenyra and Alicent more benevolent, she made them into two blithering idiots in season 2. If Hess was trying to prove that women are just as competent or worthy of holding positions of power, she failed if not demonstrated the opposite through Rhaenyra and Alicent.

[@ahealthkit2745]

It's actually kind of amazing how her unique brand of feminist writing incidentally paints the two powerful female characters as boobs that are incapable of doing anything without the help of powerful men and weapons.

[@KainBooks]

@@ahealthkit2745 Neither one has situational awareness. SMH

[@user-op6kt8pg9y]

​@@ahealthkit2745it's because she's going down the route if "men bad men want war, women good women don't want war"

[@jazwhoaskedforthis]

Right. It's like they were afraid to make them anything BUT benevolent, perhaps learning the wrong lesson after the backlash to Mad Dany. People weren't upset that Dany went bad, they were upset that it was poorly done and unearned character assassination. Unearned and unhelpful rose tinted glasses on these characters is just as unsatisfying. People were compelled by the original story because they were fiery and horrible and it was a tragedy, so trying to make it all ~just a misunderstanding~ or whatever feels like it's betraying the audience.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

​@@jazwhoaskedforthisnah people definitely were mad about Dany turning mad it came out of nowhere and was completely unnecessary you want a mad queen cerci is literally right there she's even literally compared to the mad king multiple times in the books

[@icon_o_clast]

I find myself thinking "that's kinda dumb" while watching it, while feeling like I like it... Now I suddenly realized it's the great cast I'm so drawn to in this show.

[@SpringBlingThing]

This cast is truly one of the best on tv right and deserve so much better writing

[@arianedealswithsocialanxie8170]

Glidus and Alt Schwift X have really fun commentary about S2 -- when Rhaenyra said "Princess Aeriana Targaryen" in the show they pointed out how it was impossible for Ser Steffon's ancestor to be a princess, how Targaryen women never married out of the family prior to Rhaenys, and just how fanfic OC this all sounded. EDIT: Targaryen women never married outside the family prior to Jaehaerys' line (see: Daella).

[@JadedRosexoxo]

Haven’t seen those vids, but could the Targaryen in question be from the period between the Doom and the Conquest? IIRC, there was like a 100 year gap between the two events, it wouldn’t be the craziest thing for a daughter to be married off as part of a trade deal…

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

There is one Targaryen we know that married outside the family. Daenys granddaughter and it's not uncommon for royalty to retroactivly call their ancestors by titles they did not have, so this is technically possible.

[@anamariapopa9431]

@@JadedRosexoxo again the issue remains giving nukes to another family. why do that, what are targs getting from such a priceless gift aside from dangerous rivals?

[@JadedRosexoxo]

@@anamariapopa9431 There were only 5 living dragons at the time. Nothing says that all the Targaryen’s at the time were dragon riders, there were probably enough spares to be married off for alliances or trade.

[@svenskhund3603]

​@@JadedRosexoxo The Targaryens weren't royalty before Aegon. She wouldn't be a princess.

[@titilayodaniel4575]

It's civilians don't count unless it's Team Green killing them. Rhaenyra and Daemon killed a servant and burned his face so they could marry? -- doesn't matter. Daemon employs Willem Blackwood to commit war crimes against men, women and children? -- doesn't matter. Rhaenys mass murders innocents for a 1 minute staredown? -- doesn't matter. Rhaenyra sacrifices dozens to get dragonseeds and has guards blocks their exit? -- doesn't matter. It's either seen as triumphant or an afterthought with no long lasting consequences.

[@GolDFish-if1ov]

All of those examples are terrible writings

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@GolDFish-if1ov No it’s not. Rhaenyra sacrificing dozens to get a dragon makes sense logically as she was desperate to get a dragon rider as all of those Targaryen bastards didn’t have anything else to lose so they went ALL out to get themselves a dragon to improve their lives. That scene was actually a GREAT scene and a GREAT writing scene for Rhaenyra because that’s what I wanted out of her from the start, her being ruthless and cold so it makes sense for her to sacrifice all those people like that and it also makes sense for why there’s no down side to throwing them all in there because they don’t have anything else to lose so it makes sense that there’s no drawback to that. So, no. It’s NOT ALL “tErRiBLe WrItInGs” here at all.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@titilayodaniel4575 For the Rhaenyra part, that made sense for her to get a dragon rider considering what they are. Rhaenyra sacrificing dozens to get a dragon makes sense logically as she was desperate to get a dragon rider as all of those Targaryen bastards didn’t have anything else to lose so they went ALL out to get themselves a dragon to improve their lives. That scene was actually a GREAT scene and a GREAT writing scene for Rhaenyra because that’s what I wanted out of her from the start, her being ruthless and cold so it makes sense for her to sacrifice all those people like that and it also makes sense for why there’s no down side to throwing them all in there because they don’t have anything else to lose so it makes sense that there’s no drawback to that. So, no. It’s NOT AT ALL a problem in THAT scenario as that’s a great scene as a whole which made complete sense!

[@3MB4R]

Except Daemon gets publicly chewed out and humiliated and Willem Blackwood gets executed because of this, which is unabashedly bad writing like the rest of those examples because the outrage of neighbouring houses on the realities of war is invented solely to make Daemon look incompetent at the one thing he’s unequivocally good at - military leadership. The writers want to use ‘it’s the brutality of the feudal system’ when it suits them and then inject modern values to lecture the audience for wanting to enjoy watching a fantasy war show. The creators keep wanting to, in Hess’ own words, make “every character on our show equally flawed”, but the equal flaw they’ve given the characters is they’re increasingly equally stupid. All of those scenes are invented by the show, to try and keep this inane ‘equality’ between the teams.

[@titilayodaniel4575]

@@Gadget-Walkmen First of all, I like how you only addressed my last point and not also the other 3, but sure. What about making them look triumphant or making smallfolk not count for Team Black don't you understand? The episode literally ends with Rhaenyra looking down at Hugh with her theme playing and rebuffing Aemond, how is that not showing her actions as positive? My point is not she didn't need to sacrifice anyone; my point is she sacrificed EVERYONE except Hugh and Ulf. Between the entire Black Council, did no one consider sending the dragonseeds one-by-one instead of everybody at once? Vermithor is the second largest dragon after Vhagar at this point. What did they think was going to happen if the first rider got rejected? It's either Rhaenyra is dumb assumed Vermithor would only reject one dragonseed at a time or she's evil in which case she didn't just "sacrifice them for the war to get a rider" but knew they would die and intentionally chose to kill off many Targaryen bastards, which is why her guards blocked the exit to prevent them escaping Vermithor, instead of letting them run away. Hugh and Ulf escaping Vermithor in that position was simply plot armor because they also wanted a nonsense spectacle, not "GREAT" writing. Calling it "GREAT" writing because of the spectacle and "WOAH, dRaGoN gO rOar!!" is dumb and you cannot unironically tell me that was the best a team of writers, who are writing for the flagship show of a billion dollar company, could do.

[@quinnjackson731]

"Alicent and Rhaenyra 'come' together for the climax" 😳😂😂

[@cmonslowpoke]

Wow that's really funny 🙄

[@bluosom7585]

👀🥵

[@Rubenz343]

Can't wait for season 3 🥵

[@Galow311]

Hehe, the joke is porn

[@joaoferreira3007]

I won't lie, i dropped the season with the "septa rhaenyra" scene. Its so bad of a plot, so stupid and logic breaking, that i could not keep watching this shit. For good sake a "queen" sliped out of her own castle and island, in the middle of a blockade, to "talk" with the "queen mother" of the rival king, in their capital, after her husband ordered the death of the infant son of such king and the grandson of the queen mother. How this not ended with Rhaenyra being imprisioned or killed ?!?!?! I just hate this goddamn plot.

[@erhiueQWEF]

Sounds to me like you're just another internet pseudo intelectual.

[@CosWeLL23]

it was bad even for Daemon 😅 why on earth would he come to the city himself?

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@CosWeLL23 Disagree MASSIVELY with that it was "bad even for Daemon" in ANY way as it really wasn't. Daemon being able to sneak into the city is more credible in his end and he came to the city himself because he LOVES danger and getting himself into conflict, that's been fully established as he's done WAY more crazier stuff before and was able to get away with it. Daemon doing all of that stuff is in character for him to do which is credible for him to be able to pull off at the middle of the night.

[@CASantos]

It was even worse in retrospect since Alicent came to Dragonstone... there was nothing in that Sept conversation that couldn't have been in the Dragonstone one... in fact, it probably would've been better if they hadn't seen eachother since season 1. So it was dumb and broke our willing suspensions of disbelief, for no payoff☠️

[@daralenoach]

​@@CosWeLL23 Daemon founded the Goldcloaks, and they end up being pretty loyal to him for the entire story. He's also super familiar with the city's layout and the low places of the city (Lord Fleebottom was his moniker at one stage) so his access to King's Landing is much more believeable.

[@gianni206]

Congratulations to Savage Books for finally directing a feature film

[@savagebooks7482]

Yeah I hope I never have to do it again 😅

[@marcus316]

@@savagebooks7482 I do hope you're proud of the work, though. This was a fantastic watch.

[@KingSlayer_.]

This season ruined the whole show. I knew it wasn't going to live up to the hype after they bungled the Blood and cheese plot the way they did. Disgusting.

[@playboyfan001]

She is a bad writer if her creative decisions (alterations) are worse than the quality source material that was laid on her lap. Even GRRM clearly took a jab at the writers when he claimed that 99.9% of the time they fuck it up when they decide that their own spin on the story is necessary for it to be "better".

[@psydrone8]

I declare this as the best state of HotD video on youtube! The only thing that was lacking is the deleted blog of GG Martin, who actually make some similar points to yours!

[@spintuna671]

I really do feel for Aegon, especially in a meta sense regarding how he's written. It became kind of clear that the writers wanted to slap on as much terrible stuff as possible to elevate Rhaenyra. And it's so unfortunate because Aegon is actually a really great character? The premise for him is great and I honestly think if the writers had been more nuanced in their approach initially, they had a Shakespearean level tragic villain. It's such a weird waste of potential, it's like the writer forgot they had to write a family tragedy and gave in to team discourse themselves. That being said, the way the show expands on some crimes and nit others depending on how they want us to see a character comes off as dishonest writing, not only in the case of regular crimes (Rhaenys coronation massacre vs ratcatchers), but also sexual crimes. Aegon's victim gets two full scenes and then Daemon apparently sleeping with the youngest girls and Mysaria supplying them to him is covered up in a small joke, Viserys maritally SAing Alicent turns into Alicent saying she was fond of him, the daemon endorsed warcrimes against Bracken women, Daemon grooming Rhaenyra and then the dubious consent going on with Rhaenyra/Cole. Also Helaena and Aegon being forced into a child marriage is never brought up?? And it's crazy bc all of these actually deal with major characters and are integral to main character backstories. They don't want to properly portray SA, just use it as a thing to make the audience hate a character

[@thesahel7218]

What i'm getting from this is that Condal is to blame her for not keeping Sara on track. He should have kept the good changes and removed the bad ones.

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

Condal sucks just as much as Hess does. In season 1 he said he read F&B and "knew" Daemon killed Rhae, anybody who read F&B knows it's impossible for Daemon to have killed Rhea Royce. He was the one that removed Maelor which as GRRM put it leads to a huge butterfly effect of issues. He also in bts of the episodes has started to say he invented characters, when he just mashed two book characters together.

[@crystall.411]

@@TemariNaraannaschatz Condal removed Maelor because he did not want to work with more kids apparently he was awful with the kids in Season 1 and the cast especially Matt and Emma had to console them. According to a crew member Condal constantly complained about the kids (mostly the ones who were 11 or younger) and any scenes that were with kids that he did not want to deal with he would reshoot due to their own behavior or just his simple irritation, he cut. Miguel apparently tried to push for more scenes with the younger actors but Condal was too aggravated.

[@vibechecker3168]

Saying that civilians didn't matter really irked me because both the dance and asoiaf go to great lengths to show that the SMALLFOLK MATTER MASSIVELY Spoilers for future HOTD seasons below. Beware. Rhaenys bursting out of the floor and killing dozens or hundreds of smallfolk having no consequence and being a girl boss "yaaaas slaayyyyy" moment is ridiculous. When they hauled the carcass of Maelys through the streets of kings landing, the smallfolk shouldn't have been shocked or worried, they should have been CHEERING. At least an argument in the crowd. The smallfolk are directly responsible for the deaths of the dragons in the dragonpits during the storming and cause Rhaenyra to lose her crown, kill Joffrey and ruin Rhaenyra's chances. Now if the show was written by someone I respected, you would have a build up of tensions in the streets of kings landing, from the coronation massacre, the horror of blood and cheese turning the publics opinion, the parade of the red queen, the occupation and taxation in kings landing and the incompetence of the black queen all leading up to the smallfolk rising and tearing everything down around them. However I bet that sara hess will take control of those episodes, write that the smallfolk couldn't stand a woman in charge, stupid poor people stupid, and in the behind the scenes footage, she'll probably say her inspiration was the storming of the capitol because she genuinely has no creative talent.

[@j0hnc00]

Reading your reply I laughed in solidarity and then internally cried because this must be madness that made George RR. Martin risk it all with that blog post early in September

[@detoxfidelity]

While obviously killing children is abhorrent, Elia Martel’s children were clearly not “Civilians”, they were directly in line for the throne, in fact, it’s quite likely Aegon was king when he died.

[@SandyCheeks1896]

Also a thought I had. This and him saying D&D “ran out” are my key criticisms. Despite that this is a REALLY good video that makes me feel vindicated and sane for touching on the mistreatment of male characters and flattening of moral complexity.

[@detoxfidelity]

@@SandyCheeks1896 agreed, great video

[@wafflingmean4477]

Rhaenys could have been the best character in the show. Instead, they write a paragon of morality and justice for everyone to admire and idolise... And said paragon mercilessly slaughters civilians, simply because they were in her way. She NEVER thinks about it or mentions it again. Not to mention she then allows a gigantic war to start when she could have prevented it with a single word. Every civilian that dies in House of the Dragon post Season 1 dies because of Rhaenys. What a hero. But I guess in Game of Thrones "civilians don't matter." Sara Hess was the wrong choice for this team.

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

It sucks so badly because book Rhaenys is the Queen who never was in so many more ways than just because she was passed over twice. She should have been Queen because out of all of House Targaryen she's the resonable one, the one that would have literally been the right person to sit the throne while both Aegon and Rhaenyra suck (let alone Aemond or Daemon). And not only did HOTD change why she's the Queen who never was they also threw her character in the trash with having her push Laena onto Viserys (didn't happen in the book, other people suggested Laena, not her parents and she was ruled out for being too young), having her crash the dragon pit (shouldn't even have survived it) and having her end her live for no reason (book Rhaenys had no change and chose to fight, show Rhaenys could have fled very easily).

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@TemariNaraannaschatz Nah, it’s believable for her to survive the dragonpit, the dragon went headfirst through flor first so it would make sense that that dragon would have cleared a path for Rhaenys. The scene has issues of course but Rhaenys surviving it made complete sense entirely so!

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

@@Gadget-Walkmen Meleys should have no survived that either. There is a very prominent historical moment in Fire and Blood where a bigger and older dragon than Meleys died.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@TemariNaraannaschatz Lol, just no. They BOTH could have survived as Meleys is a MASSIVE dragon who could easily barge through the floor. What you’re saying isn’t true to real life scaling here from just how massively powerful a dragon is here!

[@TemariNaraannaschatz]

@@Gadget-Walkmen Tell that to Dreamfyre.

[@jamesmswenko8292]

You don’t need to be female, LGBTQ+, or fit any specific mold to write compelling female perspectives. George R.R. Martin created characters like Cersei, Brienne, Catelyn, Daenerys, Sansa, Arya, and Melisandre with more depth and nuance than many female writers ever have. How did he manage to portray such diverse female characters without personally experiencing womanhood? Regarding King Viserys, he wasn’t fully developed in *Fire and Blood* for obvious reasons. However, if GRRM had written him for a novel or adaptation, I’m confident he would have been much more fleshed out than how Hess and Condal depicted him in *House of the Dragon*. The same applies to the other characters, especially the women, who seemed watered down compared to their book versions, lacking agency and existing mainly as victims of patriarchy. It doesn’t matter if Rhaenyra and Mysaria’s kiss was improvised-the final decision rests with the creators. They chose not to include Daemon’s scene with the servant, didn’t they? If they insist on bringing Mysaria back, at least give her that over-the-top Jamaican Jar Jar Binks accent for some comic relief. As for Otto and Aegon’s scene, it’s not impressive in the context of season 2. We lost one of the most compelling Green characters, and then Aegon randomly reappears in the finale-caged, no less. How is that good writing? Otto didn’t even leverage the massacre of smallfolk by Rhaenys to attack the Blacks. When Alicent went into a frenzy over Lucerys, Otto wasn’t angry at all-he was practically aroused. Now, suddenly, in season 2, he’s mad at Aegon, even though nothing came of the rat-catcher killings. It’s inconsistent and laughable. The scene with Corlys and Alyn could have been amazing if Corlys had done anything meaningful this season. He’s dull throughout, despite the fact he should be focused on the blockade of King’s Landing and later mourning his wife. They even skipped the moment where Corlys confronts Rhaenyra over Rhaenys' death. Instead, we’re supposed to dislike him for being a deadbeat dad in a FINALE of nothing. The pacing is off, and the writers seem unsure of their priorities. I couldn’t bring myself to care about the Arryk/Erryk fight, as they barely felt like real characters. It wasn’t tense because we all knew Rhaenyra wasn’t going to die this early. If you found it tense, I’d genuinely like to know why.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

While you are right on some things, especially the first paragraph you said, some other aspects you seem to miss the point and not get the full context of the scenes that’s there. GRRM LOVED the show version of Viserys and wished that he placed that version into his show, you can argue that he could have done a better job than what the show version has done. I would doubt it seeing how many people absolutely LOVE the show version of Viserys, and all the scenes he’s in as well as the magnificent dialogue and acting he’s given to Paddy to bring him to life in the best way possible so I doubt that GRRM would have made that much better of a job. Especially in a unreliable book of Fire and Blood which is told from different perspectives. He probably would have just made as equally as good of a job, I’d bet overall, but the show had to definitively showcase what the events of the story was going to be so the show version is what people are going to think of concretely. I agree that that the Mysaria kiss was forced because it was definitely forced and just because it was improvised, doesn’t mean any of the directors had to left that in because they really didn’t. And that accent she had wasn’t really “over the top” NOR “comic relief” AT ALL, it’s just an accent to display she’s from foreign land, that’s really it.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

The Otto and Aegon scene made COMPLETE sense for what the scene was trying to do and it WAS impressive in of itself. It just didn’t make any sense for Otto himself to essentially disappear from the whole story as a whole. That wasn’t entirely good writing for the aftermath, but the scene was still good writing for what went down between the three of Otto, Aegon, and Cole. Obviously Otto didn’t leverage the massacre of the smallfolk by Rhaneys to attack the Blacks, because Sara “Civilians don’t count Hess” didn’t care about the lives for any of the civilians when having Rhaenys come out of the floor as she did, so obviously nobody was going to do anything with that in THAT season 2. In season 2, she may have learned her mistake from having someone tell her what to do in terms of why civilians lives DO matter for this entire series and tried to make up for it. But they were so long far away from the Rhaneys scene that the writers couldn’t do anything about it AT ALL in that scene. Otto only really cared the rat catchers being killed off because of how they would end up making the Greens and the King look so bad after all his hardwork to get the people on his side after showing the prince’s dead body to them and saying that’s what Rhanerya did to him, he doesn’t seem to care about them individually but as a collective whole for what they can do to them. That’s why it’s important NOT to just slaughter innocents for the sake of it for public display, because the people might end up going against you and public approval will go down. It’s not that they anything substantial came from the rat catcher killings, it’s that ANYTHING COULD HAVE came from them. It’s inconsistent from season 2, yeah, but that couldn’t be helped due to what Sara Hess’s view on Civilians was at the time, nothing could have been done intil season 2. That couldn’t be helped at all. But the scene was NOT AT ALL “laUgHabLe” in the slightest as it was still compelling to Otto’s character and what he does as a whole. What happened to Lucerys doesn’t matter at all in according to Otto because Otto was still written AS Otto because while Aeomond may have lost an eye, he gained a dragon so that’s all that really mattered to him in the long run!

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

The Corlys and Alyn scene was overall well done but yeah I agree that Corlys could have done WAY more this scene as he doesn’t do much. And yeah, it looks like the writers were off and didn’t know what to do within season 2 due to overextending the show in the WORST way and having things stretched out unnecessarily, this show should only be 3 seasons long at most, not 4. The pacing was SO off this scene when you look at it as it all ends as the war didn’t happen at all when it looked like Rhanerya was in rage at season 1 at the end but that rage instill followed up with anything at all in season 2.

[@OttoWatt9000]

I DID care about the Errk and Arryk fight as a whole because it was overall tragic as a whole of two brothers being forced to fight with one another. They were massively fleshed out but they WERE real characters with their own view on things in order to feel like real people with their own allegiances. THAT is why people cared about that fight as they did. It was tense because you just didn’t want the brothers to die because they were being misused by Cole’s hypocritical plan to get one of the brothers killed because of his own failure. That’s why people found the fight tense as it is! That should be obvious here. Season 2 had problems but there WERE good to great moments in them!

[@jamesmswenko8292]

@@OttoWatt9000 The Cargyll twins are barely developed characters-what are you even talking about? Sure, they took opposing sides, but there's no depth to them. In Season 1, their most memorable actions were finding Aegon and bringing a crown to Rhaenyra. Beyond that, we know virtually nothing about them as individuals. They're as background as it gets, and the show doesn’t give us any reason to care about them beyond the tasks they perform. They barely even speak in these scenes, and when they do, like in the one with Cole, the focus is more on Cole being a jerk than on them. The Erryk vs. Arryk scenes in s1 Episode 9 are unintentionally ridiculous in a bad way. Hess is a clown, it's absurd that the only reason Arryk sides with Aegon is supposedly "duty"-really? Does Arryk not have his own agency? Hasn't he spent time with Aegon, seen his more vulnerable side, and perhaps feels protective of him despite his flaws? What about Erryk? What drives his strong moral compass? What does he see in Rhaenyra that makes him believe she's the rightful queen? Does he even have a personal history with Rhaenyra or Viserys? Seriously, where’s the context? A bit more backstory would have added so much to these characters, but instead, we're given a shallow and almost forced narrative about what motivates them. It’s such a wasted opportunity because the twins’ choices were supposed to reflect who Aegon and Rhaenyra really are and how the court perceives them. Here’s a better idea: what if Arryk caught Rhaenyra and Harwin in bed, making him question her worthiness to rule, while Erryk witnesses Aegon’s misdeeds, leading him to conclude that Aegon is unfit to be king? That would’ve given their decisions real weight and made far more sense. Unfortunately, the show didn’t bother to explore these characters in depth, which is such a missed opportunity.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

Problems with s2 IMO: 1. Moving too far from the gray, no-heroes nature of GRRM 2. Bias against the Greens and the writer's own agendas 3. Girlbossification of Rhaenyra (which def resembles fanfiction) 4. whatever in the Seven God's names that Daemon-alabamaing-his-mom scene was 5. the lack of clear cohesion, direction, and sense between s1 and s2 6. Completely disregarding the characters' core traits and their motivations 7. Even as a bi person myself, the romance between Rhaenyra and Mysaria felt forced. 8. The half-baked attempts at feminism/social justice that fall flat. Some of the S1 changes worked, IMO. I liked that Jace's death was somewhat of an accident that Aemond regretted, because that made Aemond less of a hand-rubbing supervillain and more deep/vulnerable. I liked the dramatic changes they made to Viserys from the drunken fatso he was in the books ... a change even GRRM applauded and said he wished he wrote. I like that the characters were humanized, sympathetic, flawed and more nuanced at times than cartoonish in their villainy. I don't think Sarah Hess is the ONLY reason the show failed. Other writers played a role too, so it does seem like they are looking for a scapegoat to blame for EVERYTHING - as fanbases often do. Attacking her appearance, relatives, and using slurs are STILL unacceptable, even if her writing in these season was bad. "Civilians don't count" sounds like CLASSISM to me as well as pure silliness. Did she not hear herself?!? If you want to make a feminist show, you can't ignore inequality of any kind (like wealth or class) or gloss over the fact that 50% of the people Rhaenys the Girlboss killed ... were women. It is so disappointing this season let us down when the show was so promising.

[@Fanciest-Hobo]

You hit it on the head perfectly

[@Nioclas64]

On point, you nailed it. I am so sick and tired of people making villains into poorly-written good guys and good female characters into girl bosses, it is ruining perfectly well-written characters. As someone who is also bisexual, the forcing in of LGBT stuff is annoying and obnoxious, it is not 'representation' for us, it is political pandering for the millennial managerial class that is a red flag for bad writing. In my own writing, I'm now hesitant to make characters LGBT either for plot or fan service because the market is so oversaturated with it being done poorly that even if I do it well and in good faith, it might come across as bad faith and reflect badly on the story or make people drop the story. A good example is in ATLA a popular ship has always been Azula x Ty Lee, yet because when ALoK 'Legend of whorra the girlboss' ended they paired Korra x Asami to be the first lesbian cartoon kiss on TV, it would now come off as force-feeding LGBT stuff if Azula x Ty Lee was made canon even if it was done in good faith

[@airplanes_aren.t_real]

Thanks for pointing out the classism in that comment, I can't for the life of me imagine why someone with that type of mindset(hopefully only applying to fictional characters and not irl people) was hired to help write the show

[@kedrprao]

Jace is yet to die. Luke died in S1

[@jazwhoaskedforthis]

Aemond accidentally losing control of his temper and Vhagar resulting in Luke's death absolutely could've been the start of really focusing on how the personal and political are intertwined, and how the dragons influence their riders. In a better world, it could've also tied into later Targs going "mad' while on dragonback, although I think Dany's villain arc should've been set in motion at least in part by betrayal from Tyrion tricking her into setting off wildfire. But anyway. Aemond deciding to become the villain people think he is because no one (except maybe Helaena, and maybe Alys) believes him? Great. But it feels like the show just forgets Luke existed or that he died. Rhaenyra looked ready to burn the world down after losing Luke, and her father, and her infant daughter. Then she just puttered around ineffectually for an entire season, as if any of those losses wasn't enough to drive her into Mad Queen territory. Ordinary common women would commit atrocities in this situation, and they're already in a war so it's not like she's "starting" it. It was super stupid to put Rhaenys right in front of the Greens and not roast them, too. It might've actually been more interesting to have her narrowly outrun Vhagar, because Aemond is on dragonback protecting the coronation from any Blacks that might show up. Then it would've actually demonstrated that Rhaenys had a less nuclear dragon but a faster one, and more experience on dragonback than her younger relative. That could've actually set up their eventual showdown. And if Aemond leans into the blame for Luke, when he ends up roasting his brother by accident no one believes that it was an accident or Rhaenys or whatever else. So he ends up having consequences for his villain mask and reputation as a kinslayer. He was the Green's best weapon and now he's roasted their king, and Sunfyre is damaged. It could've been so good, and it just wasn't. Aemond could be struggling to accept that he's become a kinslayer, that everyone sees him as tearing his family down, that he's a loose cannon instead of the one who took their legacy most seriously etc. And he could've been ripe for manipulation by, idk some witch much older than her looks who leads him to his death because he wants to believe that it's all worth it somehow and actually he was in the right and not horribly messing up? Yknow? UUUGH. I feel like the audience responding well to Aegon who got to be a horrible, flawed monster should really show HBO that they don't have to whitewash these characters. People don't come to GRRM's work for the glossy, morally unambiguous heroes.

[@technojunkie123]

Thank you for creating such a comprehensive and in depth look at the behind the scenes reasons why the writing for season 2 faltered. Ngl I was wary at first based on the title because I’ve seen a lot of rage post videos about HOTD S2 (some coherent some just an excuse to attack people who worked on the show) but you did such a fantastic job dissecting both the great and underwhelming aspects of S2’s writing. Kudos to you for doing your research!

[@Keram-io8hv]

Damn I hated "MY RATCATCHERS!" scene so much, they were mentioned more times by Otto than his own great grandson who just got brutally murdered

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

That was a GREAT scene and I have no idea on how you can "hate" it at all. Otto got upset about the Ratcatchers because of how much of a negative view the civilian population would HAVE against the Crown/The Greens after so much work to get them on their side by using the prince's funeral as a tactic for their ambitions but the prince's death of citizen siding with them has gone to waste BECAUSE of the fact that innocent civilians, The rat-catchers, were killed for no reason other than just them doing their jobs. THAT'S why he was upset about what happened, he doesn't care about them personally but what it would mean in the long run for all the hard work he did that aegons'a actions went AGAINST. That's what the scene was trying to convey and it was a GREAT scene that people love. Otto obviously cared about his great grandson but he was dead and there was nothing he could do about it but try to use his death as a way to gain support by the people, but now THAT as gone to waste based on what Aegon has done.

[@Keram-io8hv]

@@Gadget-Walkmen Your "innocent civilians" were not even innocent One of them murdered king' own son and for 99,98% of smallfolk gave zero shts about ratcatchers and Otto just brought cats

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@Keram-io8hv LOL What? The innocent civilians WERE innocent. Only ONE of them was guilty, you shouldn't have to kill over a dozen people just because ONE person was a murderer, that should be obvious here. The Smallfolk DID care about the ratcatchers because they were INNOCENT people who could have been ANYONE as they were innocent people with families of men, women, and children who Aegon destroyed. The Smallfolk DO care about them so I have no idea where you're getting this "99,98%" percentage nonsense from because it's NOT true, word SPREADS throughout the kingdom and people WILL know about what the king wrongfully did. Otto didn't bring "Cats" at all and lol, what you're saying about cats doesn't make any sense as cats don't realistically work that way. LOL You have no idea on what you're saying talking AT ALL.

[@TensaSangetsu1254]

@@Gadget-Walkmen The scene is well acted and is entertaining, by its own is great, but don't support a more critic view on show's context. Why is Otto acting has if killing 20 ratcatchers will put a 500k+ population city all against them? he only has to implicated that ALL of them were implicated in the murder, he was already talking about blaming Rhaenyra of Jaehaerys' murder no matter what. Why is he not using the Dragon pit massacre to their favor? He even said that overall is a bad omen for Aegon's reign.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@Keram-io8hv LOL What? The innocent civilians WERE innocent. Only ONE of them was guilty, you shouldn't have to kill over a dozen people just because ONE person was a murderer, that should be obvious here. The Smallfolk DID care about the ratcatchers because they were INNOCENT people who could have been ANYONE as they were innocent people with families of men, women, and children who Aegon destroyed. The Smallfolk DO care about them so I have no idea where you're getting this "99,98%" percentage nonsense from because it's NOT true, word SPREADS throughout the kingdom and people WILL know about what the king wrongfully did. Otto didn't bring "Cats" at all and lol, what you're saying about cats doesn't make any sense as cats don't realistically work that way.

[@rise-my-angel]

The fact that Tom Glynn Carney managed to make his character the stand out of the season is a testement of how good of an actor he is. That he himself pushed through writing trying to sabataoge his character, and came out on the other side from his talent alone. These writers really do not deserve him.

[@senkakulenovic856]

I often compare GoT/HotD to turkish drama series Magnificent Century, evolving around Sultan Suleyman's harem and his wife, Hurrem - extremly ambitious, smart and proud woman who worked within extremly patriarhical society - used it, and worked beyond it to secure power for herself and her sons, achieving what not many women of those times couldn't. Of course, it has elements of telenovela at times, and many misinterpreted facts used to prolong and entertain audience as any show does, but as autor of this video emphasized as important - it did work with the available historic material - it did follow main events, and believe me, many of them were as tragic and horrendeous as in GoT, if not worse, especially having in mind the series is based on real-life events.

[@user-pc9px8nu1o]

HOTD takes a massive shit on one of the central themes of ASOIAF, which is that the whole social structure, the lords, kings, knights, small folk, is all completely arbitrary. The good characters are not good because they are highborn, they are good because they choose to be. Some of the lords are just straight up evil, and in the fighting between the lords, the true loser is the small folk. But then we get to HOTD, and I think maybe yeah, the small folk actually do deserve no rights, because they are SO STUPID. Throughout s2, Rhaenyra is stopping imports to KL, kills Aegon’s son, and Osama Bin-Rhaenys is on her side, so everyone in KL should despise her. Then halfway through the season she sends them some food and all the small folk are like “eh yeah you know what, this Rhaenyra person might have a point.” Did NOBODY have an uncle or like a kid or a mom or something at Aegon’s coronation?? Wheres the people in KL wanting to take up arms for Aegon and kill Rhaenys? Then they parade Melys’ head through the street and the small folk are like “oof mate bloody bad omen that one is.” Not ONE person is like “thank the gods that bloody terrorist killed me nan”?? Such a terrible writing decision that obviously spiraled into a giant plot hole. Writers need to stop trying to add stuff to adaptations. The original author already thought of all your ideas for changes during the writing process, but then realized how STUPID it would be if they wrote that.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@user-pc9px8nu1o I mean, GRRM DID love some the changes that’s were added to Season 1 of House of the Dragon like what happened to Viserys so some of the new writer’s changes were excellently well done! While some of the other changes shouldn’t have happened like what Rhaenys did to civilians. It just depends on what works or not. So no, the original author doesn’t always “rEaLiZeD hOw sTuPiD” it would be AT ALL for some of the stuff happened WAS an improvement. It just all depends on circumstances and thinking it all through if it all works or not. Clearly Sara Hess didn’t care about civilians which is a MASSIVE problem for when she wrote any of that stuff.

[@svenskhund3603]

​@@Gadget-Walkmen The difference is that they didn't alter Viserys's character much, all they did was flesh him out. In the books we don't get any real semblance of Viserys as a character. Viserys in HOTD isn't a change, it's simply further explored. People need to see the difference.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@svenskhund3603 LOL What? The Viserys in the book is portrayed or rather SAID to be a fat slob of a king whose not particularly good at anything as he just eats and just wants to have fun. That's NOT at all the Viserys in the show whose completely different whose an overall good man whose constantly struggling to figure out to do is right or wrong for the kingdom, his family, and himself. They're VERY different overall even if they both didn't want to fight and just wanted peace. They're not really AT ALL the same and there's more than just a "fleshing out" there.

[@svenskhund3603]

@@Gadget-Walkmen Are you kidding? The books states how Viserys is a people pleaser and is weak willed exactly how hes portrayed in the show. Viserys literally spends an entire episode getting drunk and avoiding his duties as king, facilitating his personality as a slob with no interest in ruling. The book tells us of his love for Rhaenyra so there's no change there. You act like the books demonized him lol we must have read two different novels bc Viserys was considered a good man in Fire and Blood, just a bad king. You have a very skewed perspective on what the character was before HOTD lmao. Like buddy this is a bit of a stretch.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@svenskhund3603 No I don’t have a “skewed perspective” AT ALL about Viserys as a character and you don’t get what I mean at all. I’m not saying that the original text of Fire and Blood demonized Viserys and made him look to be a massive incompetent, that’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying that he was overall simple and very straightforward of an uncomplex king that’s mainly just a placeholder character for the series. They were both seen as good men but bad kings but the portrayals are VASTLY different on how they go about it. Whatever moment that tried to potray Viserys as a “slob”, which I disagree with in the show’s portrayal, who just likes partying is VERY minuscule at best because that’s not the major factor that people see in Viserys in the show. The TV series makes him out to be VASTLY more complex and VERY good admirable man whose trying his best to do for the daughter he loves and keeping his family together. Viserys in the show is trying his HARDEST to keep everything together in the most nonviolent way he can, you don’t get that AT ALL from Viserys in the book as he doesn’t seem like he’s doing much of anything in terms of any real conflict or a struggle. Viserys in the book may have loved his daughter, yeah I’m not denying that, but the way how they go around their relationship is SO much more impactful and complex in the show to the point where it’s a major defining character feature that people mainly know him for. He’s not demonized in the book but he’s not doing anything substantial in the book. While in the show it’s WAY more complicated and nuanced for his character in what he did in his life. But granted the book is told from the perspective of unreliable narrators so everything is not how we perceive it to be from whose telling the events of the story in the timeline. It’s not a “strecth” at all as no one saw Viserys as nothing more than anything but a placeholder average king whose just an overall good guy who didn’t cause much problems in the series while in the show it’s so much more complicated to the point where they don’t even seem like the same character anymore. That’s what I’m saying here. Not that the Viserys in the book is the horrible person all around in the book, that’s not what I’m saying. But he was measly just a placeholder who didn’t do much of anything noteworthy while in the show it’s VASTLY more complicated and nuanced than that. That’s why they don’t even seem like the same character anymore.

[@ambience273]

Nah, Alicent and Rhaenyra scisoring each other in season 3 will be peak fiction.

[@alien5589]

*friction

[@ibrahimahmad8198]

Both really.

[@donovan5656]

I mean...I wouldn't hate it. Just saying

[@spacecowboy5486]

"That's the stuff Lyonel"

[@bannedmann4469]

Uhg

[@potatoe9161]

I seen this chanel before but only sporadically before, see the thumbnail and expected the worst and I must say never i was more happy to watch the whole video before commenting, absolute positive surprise amazing thoughtful work

[@JaMeshuggah]

When simply a picture still from a scene the show runners actually presented triggers you because... Noticing whitened horse teeth is problematic

[@mkgibertjr]

@@JaMeshuggah We're not quite yet in a place as a society where it's reasonable to see "trans pirate?" on a video from a faceless masculine KZbin voice and not expect the worse. I'm only at the start of this video, but I'm hoping that this is a rare exception.

[@mgm3649]

I call bullshit on her reading the books. In the books everything has consequences, in her writing stuff just happens without a good reason to later be forgotten. No one that read the books would want to change the source material, NO ONE. I've never heard a book fan sound like her.

[@r.f.6702]

No way in hell she read the books. (Her vague, indeterminate timeline of when she supposedly read them says it all.) Also no way in hell she's never watched GOT. Why? Because she's a pro screenwriter, and as an industry person there's no way she hasn't watched the most popular, influential show of the last dozen years. At meetings, at industry parties, wherever she goes GOT references will have been made and she'll have been expected to get them ("this character is a lot like Cersei, only she does blah blah blah..."). All of the HOTD production people who claim they never watched GOT are lying. If you're in the industry, you've watched it, the same way you've watched The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, etc

[@Vztahovacna]

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, for delving into the Criston/Rhaenyra fiasco. I've seen no other creator address how there's functionally no difference between Rhaenyra and Aegon when it comes to consent and abusing their powerful position in order to get sex, and fandom has been doing outright r*ape apologia about it for YEARS.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

Not necessarily rhenyrea didn't force Cole to have sex with her she saduced him aegon straight up forced a woman to have sex with him yes they are both abusing their relationship with there subjects but they are not the same.

[@PrincessLioness]

@@thatoneblackdude3333I feel like people including Hess seem to be unable to distinguish between enthusiastic consent and violent assault. There are lines blurred similar to pressure someone until they cave her hooking with someone who drunk. But there is no vagueness about forcing yourself on someone who is actively running away from you and screaming. I like the Cole and Rhae scene as a less forceful version of the Jaime and Cersei scene where DnD didn’t mean for it to be assault more like a denial of desire.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

@@PrincessLioness yea I aggre

[@angelyuqi6709]

If u think there's no difference between actual outright rape of a whimpering scared woman who's actively crying & saying no vs seducing a man who's already interested in u & actually consents to sleeping with u & then even plan to run away & settle down together, then the problem is U not the content creators lmao. This guy along with all u green stans are grasping at straws to make rhaenyra just as awful as aegon when her show version clearly isn't (despite not being a saint mind u) is hilarious.

[@mariametaterran3008]

idk, in that case shouldn't we really be focusing on how Alicent repeatedly coerced Cole into situations he clearly wasn't enjoying and in the process interfering with his work? Assaulting him and placing the blame on him when it goes wrong, knowing she's responsible for his position and holds power over his life in a way Rhaenyra never did? But probably the most disturbing part was when she clearly thought all that coerced sex would be enough to blackmail him into naming her regent when power fell into his lap for but a moment, to the point that she even CONFRONTS him over it? I suppose we shouldn't be surprised at her behavior, given what she did to Larys.

[@Matkatamiba]

I'm glad someone well spoken and with a sense of nuance has talked about this. I generally think that people are good at knowing things are good/bad, but terrible at knowing why. I don't think such an enormous quantity of people are wrong for saying the show is missing the mark, but they attribute it to dumb shit like "woke", when really it's layers of details like this that end up with the final product the way that it is. I feel like the writers see the feedback and write it off as pointless, wrong, and toxic, which it is, but it's also fans who feel hurt by something they love and want it to be better.

[@owlson2527]

It’s a difficult thing to really interact with. Onehand companies will hand-wave real issues. But on the other hand, the loud voices from the anti-woke crowd go out of their way to hate on media that they WONT EVEN SEE. It’s just a losing battle because the voices that are positive, and people with REAL criticisms, are very much drowned out by the raging tide. 😢

[@johnstajduhar9617]

That's a big sentiment in videogames, players are excellent at telling you what is or isn't fun, but the solutions are usually harder to figure out than a single comment or review. Seemingly simple fixes or balance changes to a competitive game can have unforeseen consequences or knock-on effects that break other things. I imagine it's similar with reworking plots and narratives, but that might be stretching the comparison.

[@JaMeshuggah]

Couldn't possibly be bad writing, bad companies, AND woke injected trash aren't mutually exclusive.

[@TheMikster95]

It most certainly is woke to inject something YOU care about in an adaptation that didn’t include that type of content, and worse brings down the story to the point that people who have a shared interest in what you promoted say it’s bad. Adding diverse characters and queer characters is stupid if it doesn’t enhance the story. That’s not being racist or homophobic. That’s good intelligent writing. So when people say “they made it woke” that’s what they mean and they’re correct. Remember south parks “the panderverse-“make her gay and make it lame!” Same thing. I think Laenors homosexuality was handled very well because it directly impacts the story and doenst come out of nowhere, so when you see it, it makes sense. But it worked because Martin knows how to do it properly but Hess is like “oh yay a gay character?! I’m so excited!” It misses the point and ruins the story.

[@svenskhund3603]

I mean, considering the majority of changes were made for the benefit of female characters and dismay of male ones, it's not a stretch. Unless you dont want to equate making parrots out of female characters to speak her own personal biases rooted in feminism with woakness. Not saying it's the driving force behind her creative ideas but her ideas of the female characters in these stories are just to be extentions of her self. It's deeper than that, but the idea of implementing personal biases in characters that need to have their own personality especially when rooted in political biases is a tell tale sign of being woak. Unless you wanna convince me that the female characters have been altered to this degree bc they made simple misinterpretation of characters from the source material and not bc they wanted to insert their own personal biases into popular media.

[@SpringBlingThing]

Rhaneyra abused her power with Cole and his hatred of her is her consequence. I just wish the show would notice that.

[@bufongodemdabae308]

No he’s a bad guy because he has human emotions

[@plantemor]

I am so glad I stuck to my guns and didn't get invested in this new show. I have zero faith in hollywood being able to adapt anything well anymore. Having a writer on the team who's like "lawl I didn't watch the show and I don't care about the world and the story" is a pretty big red flag. Imagine if Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens had come into Lord of the Rings with that attitude? Every writer in hollywood writer nowadays seems proud and open about how little they care about the source material they adapt, so I'm over here like: okay, then why the fuck should I watch your show, then? If you don't care and take your job seriously, then why do you expect me to waste my time on your garbage?

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@plantemor What you’re saying isn’t true AT ALL in the slightest as a whole as Hollywood IS able to adapt stuff VERY well nowadays. A perfect example of this is Denis Villeneuve whose a masterful director and one of the best of our time who did a PHENOMENAL job adapting the Dune book to make two cinematic MASTERPIECES of a film that people massively loved and reached global critical acclaim! There ARE writers and creators who care about the source material and Villeneuve has proven that he is VERY respectful of what he’s adapting. It’s just that problematic writers like Sara Hess say the wrong things LOUDLY and unfortunately proudly that her bad traits sticks out the most. I mean for her to say “civilians don’t count” when it’s something like Game of Thrones when the whole point of the series is how the small folk’s lives DO matter and how the noble houses war on each other is negatively effecting the little people who live around them, is a MASSIVE misunderstanding of the story and she really shouldn’t have been involved in adapting something she doesn’t really care about respecting when it’s such a global phenomenon of a show that people love to watch and see worldwide. The expectations of the show are too massive for her to mess things up as she did and she DID mess things up by just not being self aware of what she’s doing and the massive impact of what’s she’s writing in the series. It’s obvious she lives in her own box and ignores what anyone says or no one had the guts to tell her that’s she’s wrong when she’s writing something that obviously shouldn’t be there. Like I said, there ARE fantastic writers in Hollywood who know how to adapt VERY well and love the material that they’re working on and want to make the best possible product. It’s just that the ones who don’t care about anything other than herself sticks out like a sore thumb, mainly Sara Hess here!

[@jack_5670]

6 minutes in and I really appreciate the approach so far. A lot of people just jump on the hate bandwagon without giving it any real meaningful thought, so to see a KZbinr address the situation with nuance and actually put the work in to understand the complexities of this stuff is very encouraging

[@bryceking1806]

The problem of the show is that the writers refuse to make women look bad even if it would make the story better another problem is making alicent a main character meaning they have to give her more screen time hence the terrible scenes with her and raynera

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

The scene between Rhaenyra and Alicent aren’t all “tErRibLe” but some of them shouldn’t have happened like the secret scene of them meeting as easily as they are. You can have Alicent be a main character whose more prominent and more essential to the story as a whole without lacking in quality at all, it’s just a matter on HOW they do it!

[@oRnch199]

The actress' definitely pull the scenes off, but are completely contrived. The writters forced the scenes at any cost. And that cost was mostly suspension of disbelief.

[@sid_heat]

its the equivalent of book rhaenrya thinking she's so entitled to the throne and correct for all of her actions that when she finally gets it the throne it rejects her and cuts her and everyone in the court knows what this means but she's too proud to admit she might not be the hero of the story. the ironyyyy

[@mariametaterran3008]

Wow, you have a worse understanding of F&B than Sara Hess does. Impressive.

[@sid_heat]

@@mariametaterran3008 I do what I can💕

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

​@@mariametaterran3008I'm always amazed how basic research seems beyond these hollywood hacks

[@trutherror]

I almost forgot House of Dragon is supposed to be about two star crossed lesbian lovers, not a wealthy house that imploded on itself. 😅

[@kapellmeisterr]

there was more chemistry between Gwayne and Cole than Mysaria and Rhaenyra

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@kapellmeisterr lol No there wasn’t AT ALL ANY “moRe chEmIsTrY bEtWeEn gWAyNe aNd CoLE” AT ALL in anyway in ANY form AT ALL as they were just rivals who just happened to be in the same side and that’s it. They resented each other’s for the longest with the smallest mutual respect at the very end of the season 2 final episode of Cole’s nihilism monologue. And that’s it. No “MoRE cHEmIstRy” AT ALL in the slightest.

[@kapellmeisterr]

@@Gadget-Walkmen nah, Cole hate fucked the smirk out of Gwayne after Lord Darklyn execution, he spilled Alicent name and that's how Gwayne put the pieces together later, that's literally the only explanation. Joke aside, no need to get all worked up over fictional heteroxeuality; I said that it had MORE, not that it had any considerable amount.

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@kapellmeisterr There was no "more', there was NONE to begin with, they had NOTHING that which you're saying at all. Fictional or not, STICK TO FACTS. And the facts is, there was no "CHeMIsTry" AT ALL between ANY of them AT ALL, what you're saying is just plain wrong to say PERIOD!

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@kapellmeisterr There was no "more', there was NONE to begin with, they had NOTHING that which you're saying at all. Fictional or not, STICK TO FACTS. And the facts is, there was no "CHeMIsTry" AT ALL between ANY of them AT ALL, what you're saying is just plain wrong to say PERIOD!

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

@@kapellmeisterr There was no "more', there was NONE to begin with, they had NOTHING that which you're saying at all. Fictional or not, STICK TO FACTS. And the facts is, there was no "CHeMIsTry" AT ALL between ANY of them AT ALL, what you're saying is just plain wrong to say PERIOD!

[@anthroposmetron4475]

You don't need to be immersed in GoT worldbuilding or culture to know that the Dragonpit scene is moronic writing, the deaths of hundreds/thousands of people would have political consequences in practically any setting. The fact that the Dance of the Dragons is very much a tale of smallfolk mobs in its later stages does make it _especially_ stupid that a writer would come out with 'civilians don't matter', but the writing of that scene is inherently stupid, let's be clear. I actually laughed out loud while watching the scene just after that scene, when Rhaenys goes to Dragonstone and says 'You know, maybe I'm inclined to be neutral in all of this.' The most neutral mass-murderer in Westerosi history!

[@SophiHan02]

Based on the thumbnail I wasn’t sure what to expect from this video, but I’m glad I gave it a watch! This was such a thorough dissection of the show, and I found the references to both game of thrones and the books of asoiaf and fire and blood really insightful. You are very fair about your criticisms and praises which I really appreciate!! Online I often see people who absolutely hate the show and say it’s worse than season 8, or people who defend its every scene. It’s refreshing to see such a well thought out and engaging review told by someone who really knows what he’s talking about

[@bellamaz1972]

This was well-informed and respectfully nuanced. Fans often don’t understand how hard it is to produce something like this show, but nor should that make the show immune from any criticism. I’m reminded of why I subscribed to this channel. Great job. PS: this is the first time I’ve heard “David Bowie” as a verb, and I love it :)

[@Fanciest-Hobo]

Im glad you mentioned Criston and Rhaenyra's sex scene from season 1. It kinda feels icky to me that so many people see Criston as someone who overreacted to a woman rejecting him. When, really, he's a man who git coerced into breaking, in his mind, his greatest duty, and then realized it was no skin off her back.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

It's unfortunately much easier to just label him an incel and do the virtue signal shuffle

[@marcogianesello6083]

Problem is, he did overreact, because the show is concerned with making him into an incel caricature, and the conflict which may sound serious and interesting on paper came off as ridicolously over the top, as did Cole, who is just a very bad character. The whole thing amounted to an angry rant started because the royal princess oddly enough refused to run off and go sell cabagges in Essos with a one night stand. No emphasis on her lack of thought and immaturity, no room for Cole to actually organically internalize his guilt and show it in some believable way beforehand, just the spanish soap opera version of it all. Cole asks her a clearly ridicolous thing and she lets him down easy, so since he's a man he goes on an unhinged tirade about the honor that he lost and that he apparently would have kept if he had also kidnapped the heir to the throne on top of fucking her. Cole is taken that way because that's how he's written to be.

[@AndreH-fx1pr]

What makes it worst is that it was only 8 episodes and we have to wait two years for the next season. I don’t mind a few changes from book to show, but Fire and Blood should have been simple to adapt to screen. and much more exciting. The war of five kings was much more complex and they knocked it out of the park.

[@johansmallberries9874]

Hess stating that she doesn’t like that Daemon is “the internets boyfriend” kinda supports a theory I have that they’re against fandoms that they didn’t create. And they let that dictate their writing. Messing with fans instead of making a solid show. Look at the Blackwood/Bracken feud. Book fans love the Blackwoods, and chad Willem was a meme from S1. So almost to spite the fanbase, they make the Blackwoods comically evil this season.

[@LauraGS564]

No, they only made Willem Blackwood a dickhead. We have not even seen Ben yet.

[@withlove312]

I don't necessarily agree with every single thing here, but this vid more or less sums up my issues with the series. The "good" changes they made to HotD have run their course (e.g. season 1 Viserys), whereas the "bad" changes (e.g. Rhaenicent, skewed gender politics, etc.) continue to have major consequences.

[@NotYurAverageJoe]

Thumbnail does not do the good faith criticism justice

[@Oscar_Lasco]

Had I not already watched Savage Books' former videos I wouldn't have paid attention to this essay, thinking it would be just another clickbait.

[@PyroKnight95]

​@@Oscar_Lasco same. I had to double take to make sure this was the same account I'd seen a few times

[@JaMeshuggah]

When simply a picture of a bad character triggers your [redacted] defense programming

[@ibrahimtall6209]

They’re just neutral words and images. Why are u reading a negative valence into them? Maybe u need to re-examine your own prejudices 😏😈

[@Zero_2500]

You can tell the show runners got big heads after all the praise of season 1. That is why they thought they could “improve” the source material. Unfortunately they were wrong.

[@MattyCamachio]

I was wanting someone to make a super long video on the major major issues this show has and I wish this was longer but this will suffice. Great work man

[@tododiaissobicho]

"fire and blood is inherently patriarchal" it's the fucking middle ages, wtf do you expect Sharon

[@whyyy463]

I think it's fine if Hess hasn't seen GoT. The problem is that she doesn't respect the show she's working on or the audience. It goes back to GRRM's point on fantasy needing to be grounded. GoT wasn't great because of spectacle or dragons - they were just part of the show. Audience was drawn into the narratives and the scale - a small council scene in the earlier seasons was some of the best TV to date! Respect the audience - is that too much to ask?

[@millenaalves9603]

Aegon II supposedly had a 12 yo (or younger) girl pleasuring him orally when the kingsguard were looking for him after the green counsel (in the book) This is said by Mushroom but not contradicted by any other sources (only the girl's status and access to money is)

[@zenkaiangel977]

Shouldn't Hess, as a "queer" woman not be talking about relationships between heterosexual women/girls as if she understands any of that, you know having a pretty skewed/biased view and all? Like with a lot of these things, it really seems like they just want to ship everyone and everything, and it's really creepy.

[@known_film4081]

This logic can also be applied to JRR Martin, the dude is not a woman , and doesn’t know about relationships between woman. He writes his stories from a very male white point of view. Woman relationships heterosexual or not, can be very intimate, and pivotal to a woman’s upbringing and entire life.

[@tododiaissobicho]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. I'm always fascinated about why shows take a dip into a shitshow and the content online is usually very shallow. Thanks for taking so much time into making this video

[@jaredmoyes81]

Savage books? Nah. More like Savage in the gym. Bruh. Are you swoll, or are your arms just happy to see me?

[@ElCalavera89]

You did a fantastic job putting into words many things that bothered me I couldn't articulate properly. Absolute great video.

[@ishmeilmathis2218]

This is an awesome assessment of the writing of HotD. I think especially the acknowledgement of the chaotic nature of the directing and writing rooms highlights some of the more interesting and baffling towards season 2. The changes made throughout season 1 had had always worried me. From the Laenor Valaryion not being killed, to the lack of the initial formation of the Black's and Green's, (big tournament where Criston Cole went full pyscho on Harwin), to a lot of Criston's agency being shifted towards Alicent and Otto, I was concerned a bit by where these decisions would go. So the fumbling on season 2 was both unfortunate and unsurprising to me. The roots were beginning to rot by the end of season 1. We just had hope it wouldn't fester.

[@lady_magnoliauwu1169]

something interesting that i realized. Because Sarah Hess hasn't watched the show , she doesn't know that the fans LOVE complex female characters ( excluding the annoying fans of course ) , Cersei was a b*tch through and through who thought was smarter than she actually was and we LOVE to HATE her because of that , Sansa was a naive girl that learned the hard way how the real world was , Margery was a cunning and ambitious woman who used the limitations of her gender to her favor. FRICKING DAENERYS !!!!! etc etc etc etc In HOTD all the female characters need to be morally right, to not be impulsive , to not have bad intentions. But GOT taught us that female characters have a LOT of different motivations and their own morallity , which is a million times more interesting in my opinion

[@PrincessLioness]

Sansa is hated by the fandom

[@Gadget-Walkmen]

I mean not ALL the female characters in HOTD are like that because Alicent WAS impulsive when she pulled out a knife to slash stab out Luke's eye and slashed at Rhanerya. Alicent is portrayed as more and more villainous more than anyone else in the show.

[@Matkatamiba]

@@PrincessLioness The part of Sansa's arc where she was growing to be a smart, cunning character also lined up with when the show turned into rushed garbage. They probably coulda pulled it off.

[@PrincessLioness]

@@Matkatamiba They hated before that.

[@robinronin]

I'm baffled that it wasn't one (1) woman's fault that an entire season was lackluster?? No, but for real, it's so weird when people pick one person to blame for everything in these situations. This was made by a huge team and everyone has their ups and downs. Sara did some great things, and some meh things. Everyone on the team did some great things and some meh things. The important director guy apparantly left and made the entire season feel off because he wanted to nepotism his wife into a director job with zero experience, which is probably the most obnoxious GOT-related thing I've ever heard. If we need to blame one person, can we blame him?

[@ahealthkit2745]

I'd be more willing to blame HBO in general. The entire reason the show exists is because of a profit motive & a successful series (GOT). Realistically, if you want to blame anyone for the enshittification of GOT, blame fucking HBO!

[@alexman378]

Because that’s what always happens. Whoever is at the top of a certain department and seems to have influence is the one who gets the blame. Hess shares it with Condal, because she has been frequently shown in interviews as being the writer with the most influence in her episodes, to the point where the characters stop being consistent to allow for her own way of thinking to enter the script.

[@Accomodare]

Whilst simultaneously trying to actively make the male characters so evil only for them to end up as the most interesting and grey characters in the show. 😂 The lesson here seems to be to not become blind to bias while pushing your own agenda.

[@caad5258]

Meh I wouldn't put much stock in that rumour. Regardless, the new team are professionals, they should be as capable of coordinating as well as the original GOT team. Like the decision to hire Abigail Thorn to play the gender-fluid character without actually exploring the complexities of Lohar, that 100% on the season 2 team. Bizarre honestly, they chose the worst of both options there.

[@underscore_5450]

And even if she was the chief person in charge of making creative decisions, everyone from actors to other writers to producers has to agree with this stuff and go along with it. To put all the blame on a single individual is just disingenuous and unrealistic.

[@Kam_i_]

Taking away the bite of Rhaenyra felt like we weren’t allowing her to just be angry. I was excited by the queer subtext direction that season 1 had taken, and was hoping that there would be an added level of heartbreak and betrayal to the death of Lucerys at the hands of Allison’s son. I love portrayals of very intimate friendships between young women because it’s so close to my own life. It would have been fascinating to watch that kind of relationship be twisted into a hatred purer than Criston’s for Rhaenyra - both women could be driven mad by their level of hatred for each other - it would have been iconic. I don’t think it would fall into “mad woman” tropes either, because making their conflict more about each other - and cutting back on the amount of men condescending to them, because they’re both so terrifying and commanding, or something - I think there might be a very interesting show there.

[@lancenwokeji6349]

Just curious, how do you think that pure hatred would come out on screen?

[@TheDump45]

I'll never understand why writers of franchises feel the need to add their own flare to things. The only thing I can think of is they have giant egos and knowing they'll never achieve the success of a writer like George, attempt to change and add their own lore to tie their name to the success of the series. I don't even know.

[@MegaBond101]

I whole heartedly agree. As a "barely" writer I think the reason these individuals do this is because they simply don't like the source materials. I've written plenty of pieces (personal not out there for everyone) that completely change other individuals works into my own because I feel the characters deserve better than what the writers use them for. Writers that do this ofc end up messing up what the fans originally fell in love with and get a lot of backlash. I do understand where writers like Sara Hess come from. They think they're in the right but it's just cringe fanfic at the end of the day.

[@stalwartteakettlepotato9879]

HotD is speed running the same path GoT took. Only it took GoT 6 season to turn to trash, and HotD will do it in a remarkable 3.

[@morganherring6958]

I literally just finished binging every Song of Ice and Fire related video on your channel cause I love your analysis so much and then you post this. What lovely, serendipitous timing!

[@CxerRy96]

1:01:35 no, it's not HER work, it's the work of the writer's team, which she happens to be a part of, from which we have no insight into how much she actually contributed...Ryan Condell saying him and Sara did 85% of the work means nothing because he's an unreliable narrator to us as well, why should we trust his words when we can simply look at her own

[@xqt6339]

I'm not gonna lie, it took me until 43 mins in but I realized you were saying "Game of Throne" and "House of the Dragons", well played.

[@michellecgb]

Miguel would’ve given us Aemond burning that town because he was angry and the battle between the Blackwoods and the Brackens, 1000%.

[@bub6010]

He really would

[@Spicy_Spores]

53:00 THANK YOU FOR ADDRESSING THIS. the entire scene made me feel so uncomfortable, it's because a knight is being manipulated by a person of power (who could have him executed for any reason, whenever she wants) to betray his oaths and have s*x with her. It has always gave me the creeps, and the audience's reaction to it definitely made me feel even more disgusted.

[@dejajade6726]

Asking why Daemon is so liked is like asking why Anakin/Darth Vader is so beloved. Like c'mon now.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

People like her don't understand the male power fantasy at all

[@crystall.411]

worst part is Hess ended that with saying “He ain’t Paul Rudd”. It’s crazy to say, why is she comparing Daemon to real life modern person? why Paul Rudd? Does she know how Paul Rudd is in his personal life?? wtf. Also it is funny she thinks the general public believes Paul Rudd is sexy at all or has sexual charisma when he does not but Matt as Daemon does.

[@CharlesZane_]

“I know absolutely nothing about this IP I’m adapting, and that’s a good thing!” This is never a good sign.

[@BakaChaine]

And that's how you write a great and nuanced analysis without using the "it's wooooke" argument. I was really disappointed in a lot of what Season 2 brought to the table and it's interesting to get this sort of insight about Hess' background etc. Even highlighting what she did right serves the point (that writing mistakes were indeed made.) It was a very interesting video, thanks!

[@coolieo2222]

I am just gonna complain to complain but I am still fucking pissed that the Queen that never was fucking killed like 2000 people with absolutely no consequences to the story whatsoever. For a show that try’s to show the small folk as a force of nature and relevant to the world they really contradicted themselves story wise there.