Save these Heroes! ~ Which heroes need a buff?

In this video we are breaking down the top 6 models that I want to see buffed in the new edition!
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[@jesusmanuelgutierrezduarte5253]

Faramir: father i migth get a buff and be playable Denethor: Boromir is perfect as is.

[@buffyk4]

I think Boromir needs a little more Might. Just a splash.

[@grimgrauman7650]

Make Faramir 3 wounds. I don't think he should be 3 attacks, he fight well but he is not Boromir. We need way more 2 attack 3 wound heros, for some reason there are like non.

[@Quippant]

Seeing Eärnur get 'The Charge of Gondor' special rule felt like a missed opportunity for me as I would have loved Faramir to have received something in kind to reflect what I think is one of the most iconic moments in the trilogy.

[@grimgrauman7650]

@@Quippant but he has a ruel for that... Just Not a good one. They should make it Like the ruel of theodred, that He Deals moer damage

[@Matt-ln7lb]

Faramir is kind of a funny one, because the only change he had was going up 10pts for the current edition from prior ones, and it pushed him from being one of the most popular MT heroes to seeing practically no play. I think they'll fix him with some special rules in the next edition.

[@barrybatsbak29]

Khazad guard F5 please, no reason why they shouldn't be better in a fight than regular dwarf warriors

[@grimgrauman7650]

They have higher Strength. That makes them fight better. But i think Durins herth guard should be Fight 5

[@sjins1poolboy698]

feels... when the cream of the Dwarven crop gets outfought by Easterling warriors when the emperor is around 🥲

[@lacadam]

Poor Faramir who at the end of the day is more wise, noble and fairer than any other Gondorian at the time of the books but gets one rule that actually just makes him weaker. Freaking grishnakh is more useful to your army than the steward and prince of ithilien.

[@Jewus19]

to be fair the steward on his own is a great profile in my opinion!

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

It is said in the books about Faramir that "his life is charmed, or fate spares him for some other end". So maybe he should get better Fate rolls than everyone else?

[@ClaymoreLinx]

@@lacadam Grishnakh is possibly the highest ranking orc we see. He answers directly to Khamul, or Khamul's companion, whichever one was on the Fellbeast when Legolas one-shot it. He was also likely present in the room with Sauron during the torture of Gollum. Not saying you are wrong about Faramir, I agree he should have Res to Magic, but Grishy is not a good example.

[@Arkanakaz]

Nice list. One alternative fix for the Dragon would be for its courage to always equal the number of wounds it has remaining. That way it would be more likely to flee and be more cowardly the more damage/wounds it took. That would be more realistic and would make it unlikely to run on first courage test taken at courage 7 - then gradually more likely after each wound taken. Could just remove it though. I also agree some of the combat/caster hybreds are hard to get value from. There could be a general special rule in the mould of "Blood and Glory" that could be given to these hybrids, to allow them to cast in combat like you say.

[@finnbruton7274]

I think Faramir needs a buff. He’s a really special character in the books and even films. He needs something to show his resistance to the ring (magic?). The rangers got nerfed so much that it’s made Faramir even worse.

[@ConquestCreations]

I would really like to see him get a few different versions that he can be played with. For example as a ranger he has an ambush mechanic and as a knight he gets a reckless charge rule. With the way that army composition will work in the new edition I think it is very possible

[@finnbruton7274]

It would be cool if Aragorn got “hands of the king are the hands of a healer” maybe he has a ‘renew’ ability toward minas tirith models.

[@brandonkirk6498]

yeah like he would have to be in base contact with a friendly model and on a 3 or 4 up roll the recover a wound and on a natural 6 they recover all wounds something like that because there is multiple times in the movies especially in the books where he heals people, in the books he is the Fellowship's main and only healer

[@michaelgrey1351]

My boy Glorfindal definitely needs a buff. I'm thinking Fight 9, Strength 6, aDefence 8, and the ability to teabag.

[@AleInBywater]

And 40 pts up in cost too then? He is already considered the most competitive elven lord, and lore wise Gil Galad is considered to be the best fighter.

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree with giving him the ability to teebag. I am surprised to head that people consider him the most competitive elven lord. I had him as the opposite at the bottom of the elven lord list!

[@AleInBywater]

@@ConquestCreations It may be a UK meta thing. Ive noticed Sean Rossato isnt very fan of Glorfy either, think hes shat. WK being so prevalent, Fortify Spirit is very handy. You cant kill his horse easily due to horse lord. Monster thing is very niché but can be handy. 3 fate is handy to prevent leader wounds and instakill from siege weapons. 12" move is really good. Heroic combats vs d6 can easily give you 4 wounds in one combat (8 dice wounding on 5s is fairly doable). Hes very versatile.

[@AleInBywater]

But Gilly is of course much more killy, if he can keep his horse.

[@michaelgrey1351]

@@AleInBywater The teabagging alone is worth 40 pts.

[@dietrichknauth9305]

Please give Merry and Pippin something, ANYTHING to do outside of Shire lists and throwing stones from Treebeard's back!

[@lacadam]

YEah! I would love the excuse to use either one of them! Not saying they should be better at fighting but maybe a buff/aura of some kind?

[@grimgrauman7650]

​@@lacadami think Pippin (gondor variant) should give a courage Buff to Minas Tirith warriors. Him running to Gandalf made a lot of warriors who were running away and joining the fight again.

[@emberpowertcg7692]

move and additonal 2" turn one, take it or leave it aha

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree, I want to see pippin give Gandalf buffs when they ride on shadowfax together

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

I think all Hobbits (when not in the Shire lists) should have an "easily overlooked"* rule or something like that - that enemies won't attack them if they have any other target. Thus Hobbit heroes will be useful for capturing objectives and for helping others without a huge risk for themselves. *As Pippin said to Merry "one poor hobbit coming in from the battle is easily overlooked".

[@mennokouwenberg4200]

I’ve always thought that Gandalf just needs one special rule. Give him the ability to chose between going magic or combat. With magic giving him +1 on the cast for the turn and combat giving him +1 attack.. I think that would be so much more fun to play then just giving him his 3rd attack!!

[@ClaymoreLinx]

Mostly agree with the Wraith analysis, I would say that their variability is pretty lore accurate. I would say they need a hand-and-half swords; they should have 2 A; they should not lose will for fighting (reduce their total pool). I do not think the regular wraiths should get strike though. Having that on WK and Khamul makes them exceptional as per the lore, they are the strongest. Buff Khamul, lol!

[@SevenSwordsExia]

My 2 cents is that GW's decision to give Witch-King and Saruman access to rerolls that are more-or-less built in to Witch-King and Saruman and give Gandalf the White a fat lot of nothing in the way of the same mechanic is baffling. Lord of the Istari for Saruman is built in and Crown of Angmar for Witch-King technically costs 25 but it's so stupidly-good for all Witch-King builds it's basically built into his point cost. (Hmm... should I take like 4-5 extra Orc Warriors, or should I take the Crown of Angmar? It's a mystery...) Thematically giving Gandalf the White Lord of the Istari too makes perfect sense, IMO, and most importantly it would make his magic more consistent. My girlfriend plays the good forces and I play evil, typically, and I'm having the time of my life with the Witch King, but I just got the Minas Tirith battlehost mainly for more Warriors of Minas Tirith, but we don't really want Gandalf the Freakin' White to be an afterthought. So we're gonna house-rules him to have Lord of the Istari free of charge and if he's still too wimpy we might do your idea and house-rules his Attack dice too.

[@ConquestCreations]

I reckon this is a good house rule between now and when the new edition drops, it makes a lot of sense given that he is what Saruman should have been!

[@finnbruton7274]

Hot take: each troll should be an independent hero with m/w/f at the same points to make them competitive again. They do act fairly independently in the films so it’s not that crazy really.

[@ConquestCreations]

This would be an interesting way to do it. Everyone wants trolls to get stronger its just how to go about doing it

[@muesliman100]

Even more than trolls this is true for ents and eagles

[@finnbruton7274]

@@muesliman100 yes probably. It’s always hard to justify a troll/ent over 1.5-2 captains with might.

[@ВладиславЛазарик]

Faramir also should be buffed. In a book he is such a cool hero! There are only 5 characters in the book which presence encourage their men for heroic deeds even in the worst situations and Faramir is one of them. So he needs give some bonuses for his troops, his fighting and shooting abilities should be improved and there should be some special rule that represents him as a good tactician. And also Dúnedain and Rangers of the North must be improved. The best fighters of the Middle-Earth (after the elves, obviously) who controlled whole Eriador being just few hundreds in number just can't be in parry with uruk-hai, dwarves or corsairs. Each of them was literally the Hero, and it must be represented correctly.

[@austintaro7062]

Bro Dwarves need buffs, they don’t even have a fight 7 hero and almost every faction except for Dwarves have a fight 7 hero. And they could use some magic buffs as well

[@brucerobinson5405]

Meanwhile, Rohan with no fight 7, no magic and less defense.

[@austintaro7062]

@@brucerobinson5405 I definitely did not forget Rohan that’s why I put in almost in my comment haha

[@danjennings6482]

I too love dwarves...

[@ConquestCreations]

I definitely think that Kazad Dum needs a big buff. However there are very few fight 7 and above characters in the game. In the new edition the fight values will be spread more so I am expecting a lot of characters to move to fight 7 , 8, and 9.

[@seanwilliams7073]

The King of the Dead really needs more than 1 point of might so he doesn't have to depend on the Heralds to do anything in a pure Army of the Dead list

[@endhope]

Dwarves need resistance to charm and mind control, also free march on heroes😉

[@francescogulisano2917]

Free march is actually pretty intersting, since it doesn't affect combat, but would be useful to "speed up" certain battles. Also, it could be useful on very large thematic battles, like the Pelennor fields or Last Alliance

[@ConquestCreations]

I hope that Kazad Dum gets a large buff. I would actually just give them +1 defense across the board. During goes to Deface 10, Kazad Guard on Defense 8, it would make them feel like the tanks that they are supposed to be with mithril armour

[@finnbruton7274]

Eowyn and Merry should have some kind of anti-witchking buff. In the books it’s merry and pippins blades but the films could just do “I am no man” or something. Maybe re-roll fail to wounds?

[@SonsOfGondor1]

While there's a lot of critique for Survival Instincts on Dragons, I think the actual issue is the focus for most players on getting Breathe Fire. Yes, fire can be devastating, but the Dragon's most lethal attack option will always be charging and foregoing the fire gives you plenty of Will for passing Courage checks. Whether you augment your wings upgrade with casting (free die so you don't have to spend your Will), higher Defense and Wounds, or just saving 50pts and going with wings alone, you've got a solid combatant.

[@francescogulisano2917]

I don't know if he needs it that much, but in terms of being more accurate to the lore... Elrond having only the standard 3 will is a bit weird, considering that he's a very powerful caster. Other than that, I kind of want an edit of Aragorn at the battle of the Black Gate turning to his friends and saying "let's go boys" with your voice

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree with Elrond. Becuase he has great spells to cast and only 3 will its strange to see him not casting so that he can save them for resisting. Going up to 6 wouldn't feel out of place

[@samhallesolidaritet6033]

The best thing with removing instinct from dragons is That it opens up the options of how you bild them quite a lot. Eg. Not needing hide for less risk of taking a wound.

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree, it would just make them a lot more fun to play with and I still think for 350 points they would be very balanced

[@finnbruton7274]

Khazad need buffs. They have sort of fallen behind.

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree! I have a small Khazad dum army that seems to loose every single game it in!

[@muesliman100]

@@ConquestCreations Lately they are really heavily relying on the very budget king's champion with which they can do well, but this could be evened out a bit more across Khazad-dûm (champion a bit more expensive, other stuff better or cheaper) and they could still use a bonus. Maybe they could get a war drum (although also weird because they would be one of the faster good races). Their heroes really mostly need a buff to make them harder to ignore

[@caesar-m22]

What a great video! All these models are favorites. Hopefully we see them shine! Looking forward to the new edition!

[@ConquestCreations]

I can't wait for it! very exciting times to be into MESBG

[@dimitrismoutzouris7369]

Although not related with the movies, please give my boy Celeborn a horse : (

[@ConquestCreations]

Hahahah never, I am expecting horses to be nerfed big time going into the new edition. We don't see the heroes fighting on horseback very often in the lore compared to seeing them being an auto take in game. I reckon that the cost of the horse will scale with the cost of the hero

[@RobsW23]

So glad you included Glorfindel. Have always thought he was undervalued

[@josepfrancesch1591]

Cool video! I think that there are other profiles that maybe need more urgent updates/buffs, such as Faramir, Eomer, Arvedui, Arathorn, lurtz, and some others. These profiles are very similar to captain profiles and don't have as many special rules as they should. It would be so much immersive if they added some rules to make them different!

[@jeffreymonsell659]

Lurtz is literally the first one in this video.

[@ConquestCreations]

I reckon these guys will all get changes. I don't think I would change Eomer, Arathorn, and Arvedui but I would love to see Faramir get special rules that represent him as a commander or give him a few different modes that you could play him as. For example as a ranger getting an ambush rule, and as a knight having a reckless charge type rule.

[@grimgrauman7650]

Nazgul should be 2 Attacks and the fell beast should have 3 Attacks. I think will of evil is a good ruel/ fits how the nazgul are discribed. But mayby instead of them getting removed at 0 will, they get -1 on Attacks & Fight to show that they are weak.

[@joshcoles1255]

It’s a bit of an issue in our current edition for example when you look at tier lists for heroes the amount of iconic characters that aren’t really viable at competitive tournaments etc is crazy! Agree on Aragon should be better but as much as I love the character he gets absolutely dog walked by a Gil-Galad or Glorfindel level type of hero so I don’t want him to be like top 3 fighters because he’s simply not on the level as the two I just mentioned let alone Smaug and Sauron Like you said Glorfindel should be a much more scary hero to face, yes he’s got a solid profile currently but he should be a lot more threatening as should most of the elf lords etc, Elves in general are weak when it comes to killing and their mighty heroes capping at S4 makes them no more threatening to wound then some random low Morranon orc. love to see Gandalf the white be better, think it should be a hard decision of who to take in that list as your leader where as currently there’s much better options.

[@ClaymoreLinx]

@@joshcoles1255 Two-handing helps. I had Elrond and the Twins clear out half-trolls in 2 turns with 2-handing.

[@joshcoles1255]

@@ClaymoreLinx Whilst I agree that’s an option the fact I have to put myself in that position to get to wound things is a bit off when these mighty elf lords should be able to walk through basic troops. I understand game balance and you can’t have elves be able to do everything perfectly but when my super expensive heroes aren’t killing and breaking the number difference between a me and S4 D6 horde army with plenty of tricks and or magic as well it just rubs you the wrong way. Of course 4/10 games my leaders will have those types of games where they cut through loads but I think the heroes at least should be way more consistent killers for the points you pay

[@markusaurelius83]

I expect the iconic characters to gain power and be more playable across the board, also because it's the declared wish of the other side that's dealing with the licensing. Remember the Dwellers in the Dark? These Mini-Balrogs were tough and basically replaced Cave Trolls. So they sold well. In the next edition they became weaker and the Cave Trolls became the default beater at this point range for Moria again.

[@ABorderPrince]

Agreed on glorf with a buff to St5 even the Rivendell army would be improved with someone choppy who isn’t gil

[@mennorach]

If something then: I would give Gandalf the White the ability to cast multiple spells in a single turn. Lets say, that every one of them needs to be different and the cast value goes up or something. In most games you run out of time and need to decide what to do with the time that is given to you. Ability like that would make Gandalf a bit more powerful wizard.

[@ConquestCreations]

I think this would be a great way to be able to get his buffs an auras up allowing him to cast terrifying aura, and blinding light in the same turn

[@reslime]

Aragorn is a beast and has the best ability of the game (mighty hero) buff him too much would have everyone pick him. Fight 9 is too much for me and should be fight 7, he cannot fight Sauron at same level costing 160 points less and having free might each turn and the ability to wound everyone on 4

[@_ccann]

100%

[@ConquestCreations]

Thanks for the comment! I'll follow this by saying that I would move Sauron up to fight 10 as well. If aragorn is 160 points he doesn't have anduril so is only Strength 4. To get him with the 4 to wound costs a minimum of 200 points plus whatever upgrades you give him

[@andrewthompson7645]

I honestly think you produce the best content on MESBG in all the various forms you produce on KZbin. Have you thought about a podcast by any chance? Keep up the excellent work, your videos keep me inspired (Tolkien did his part too, to be fair)!

[@williamhamilton1154]

We all knew Gandalf was making this list.

[@ConquestCreations]

Hahaha it was no surprise to anyone

[@patrickcooper7333]

Gandalf the white should get once per game abilities... maybe itll be something he gets in the new LL

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree, giving him a few once per game abilities to represent the different stages of the siege would be awesome!

[@Marvin_TTRS_8J]

For Khazad-Dúm: - Durin should be able to choose his own equipmen like 10 points for Durin axe, for the ring, for thr horn and 10 points for the crown and get F7 - King´s Champion should get M3 and Bodyguard - Khazad and heart Guard F5 - No Cavalary Knock to the Ground bonus for the iron shield of the Vault Warden Team But maybe I'm also a bit biased when it comes to Khazad-Dúm. But it would be nice to customize a few things for Khazad-Dúm. That would definitely make them a bit more competitive. Even if the speed and no cavalry are still a huge disadvantage here

[@grimgrauman7650]

Change survival instinct so you start testing Courage when you are below/equal half your health. So on the Dragon would not test for the first 3 wounds. With the scale upgrade it would be the first 4 wounds! I think survival instinct is really thematic on a Dragon. Also make the Dragon Courage 5

[@finnbruton7274]

Gandalf the white needs to be cheaper. He’s not much better than the witchking but is a lot more expensive.

[@ConquestCreations]

I am happy with him being the equal most expensive hero on the good side. He is one of the most iconic heroes. Rather than making him cheaper I would make him stronger to fulfill his lore more accurately and his points more accurately

[@justinfanter3620]

Nazgul change would Go hard, more similar to the mouth of Sauron. This would be epic

[@ConquestCreations]

I would love this

[@jamesellis5942]

Fell beasts need some love, maybe a change where when striking against a nazgul they have to roll a 5 up in the way test to avoid the fell beast, like when shooting them.

[@Sacrilege83]

For the Dragon I would change Survival Instinct, not eliminate it, by saying it only kicks in when it has 4 wounds left. Basically it would have to pass 3 Courage Tests for it to remain on field with 1 wound left.

[@Tyonline777]

I could not agree more with the glorfindel profile idea!!! I hope that happens!!

[@gnomerunner1293]

My play group and I think Monster models need a huge rework. Specifically Fangorn. They need higher movement, more wounds, and move and throw stones.

[@ConquestCreations]

I totally agree, this is something that I am expecting to happen in the new edition. With Fanon It would be awesome to see their throw stone have an area of effect because they are throwing massive boulders.

[@justinfanter3620]

@@gnomerunner1293 monsters should not be able to be trapped, and should not be stopped by 1 soldier charging them and keeping them in place. A rule where monsters simply can brush aside lower strength models during their move 👀👀👀

[@Glowflight]

Sauron definitely needs a buff. He's the titular Lord of the Rings and needs to feel like it in every single part of his profile. Firstly, he deserves a free Heroic Combat each turn. Sauron's opponent shouldn't just get to ignore the Dark Lord, or slow him down with a single model each turn. That isn't at all reflective of what we see on screen. The whole point of the Last Alliance was that the threat of Sauron couldn't be avoided and he needed to be confronted directly. Secondly, he should receive Fight 10 and Mighty Blow. The way he slams Elendil against the rock is pretty evocative of that ability, and Fight 10 means heroes are forced to spend Might to tie him, putting less strain on Sauron's own limited Might store. Also, not getting tied up by a single half-troll, or similar 2 Wound warrior is fitting. Thirdly, Sauron should receive the re-roll when casting and resisting magic. He was first and foremost a powerful sorcerer, and it's laughable to think he would be less capable with magic than his own servant, the Witch-king. Finally, Sauron needs something akin to the Balrog, that prevents Blades of the Dead, Dragon's Breath, or a Morgul Blade from removing all of his Wounds. The heat of his body alone burned Gil-galad to death, and the One Ring is unharmed by dragon fire.

[@joelparslow5807]

So for Glorfindel: he really needs something to represent his skill, by the 3rd age of middle earth he is the finest fighter in the world. so I think he should get to call Heroic Strike or Strength without expending might. also he is so powerful that he literally shines in the eyes of the nazgul, so I would give him and Aura, all evil spirits within 6" get -2 courage. and maybe give him hatred monsters or something. For Nazgul: I love their magic, so I don't want to reduce their will. but getting rid of Will of evil and giving them strike would be great.

[@kelmacett2456]

I would like to preface this comment with Saruman does not need any buffs at all. However, i would've loved if he had his transition from Saruman The White to Saruman The White Hand was more evident in the profile differences. Something as simple as: Saruman Ring-Maker: Saruman's ring gives him +1 Def. Saruman of Many Colours: Saruman's cloak makes him hard to be the target. E.g he counts as being 6 inches further away or any other rule to reflect the properties of his cloak. Clearly his price should be increased to reflect these additional benefits but the increase in price and rules would also justify his position as the faction leader for Isengard. The rule differences also would justify why Saruman The White Hand defeated Gandalf The Grey. It would also give Good Saruman more uniqueness within the game as both profiles would be more different to each other and not just have the feeling that using Good or Evil Saruman makes little difference. I repeat the suggestions are purely fluff lore wise to separate good and evil saruman from each other. P.s. Gandalf the Grey & Gandalf the White (LoTR movies) and Saruman the White (in the Hobbit movies) are absolute badasses in melee, so i do agree that Gandalf needs more melee presence. Again Saruman does not need Melee buffing but if you look at how he was fighting those Ringwraiths his attack of 1 looks meh.

[@ConquestCreations]

Great preface hahaha, I think this would be a great way to do it. Having more variety is always a good thing and representing his transformation in his rules would be a lot of fun.

[@ClaymoreLinx]

@@kelmacett2456 Saurman of Many Colours for the win. Good post!

[@kelmacett2456]

@@ClaymoreLinx cheers.

[@Matt-ln7lb]

Glorfindel is solid for his points. He should just be more powerful to fit his lore. Fellbeasts are fine; they don't need a buff. They're quite good if used well. It's just seen as better to keep the Nazgul on a horse to get more bodies and play it purely for magic and support other models in combat, rather than "risking" the nazgul in melee, where it can potentially get tied up for several turns in a row or killed if you're unlucky. Elessar really just needs magic resistance and F7. He's actually really good in some match ups; he's just a bit too vulnerable to magic and isn't quite up to par in fight value. F9 seems completely unnecessary with his free might every turn and strike.

[@patrickcooper7333]

One thing on ringwraiths. I disagree with, if you're changing will, I'd give them 6-8, that way they feel like they have more oopmfh than a slightly better shaman

[@ClaymoreLinx]

@@patrickcooper7333 I think he meant 4 base but still able to be modified, up to 11 I guess, could be wrong though.

[@patrickcooper7333]

@@ClaymoreLinx ahh. I think giving them 6-8, would be better, like give khamul/Knight of umbar 6, but betrayer/undying 8-10

[@muesliman100]

For shooting Lurtz should get re-rolls on in the ways for friendly uruk warriors in combat with his target. Also maybe +1 to wound if he shoots from within 6"

[@DFGEmporium]

I fear too strong a magic nerf makes certain characters like aragorn potentially unstoppable for some armies. If the average caster gets worse I think that's ok but the big main casters need to be able to shut down big heroes with their magic. Should a barrow wight have paralyze? I don't think so, that thing is dumb, but I think the big ones, probably the wizards, Witch king and sauron should have large impacts with their magic. Reworking the magic to be less oppressive in the availability and efficacy could be done, but there are some heroes that need a counter outside of combat.

[@ConquestCreations]

I completely understand what you are saying. I have had games where my cool hero has been transfixed every turn which is lame. I have also had games where Azog killed literally my whole army by himself which was also super lame.

[@DFGEmporium]

@@ConquestCreations Exactly! Both options lead to undesirable outcomes, so hopefully the new edition balances both ends of the spectrum.

[@_ccann]

Lurtz and Glorfindel, yes. Aragorn having the same fight value as Sauron/Smaug would be really bizarre and wouldn't fit the lore. Not a fan of seeing more Dragons in the game, personally. Just isn't what I love about LotR or MESBG. If the new edition debuffs magic and buffs big heroes I worry it's going to turn into "who has the bigger hero" as the only way to win and that's not appealing to me at all.

[@MithrandirAv]

1000 agree with Gandalf changes. He's my fav character and he just isn't that great in the competitive game

[@jeremypardee1895]

What if they nerf spells based on heroic tier? Instead of a shaman being able to transfix Aaragorn, give a penalty to the cast for each tier above the target is. This would also make characters like Saruman more valuable by comparison for being able to cast against other heroes of legend without penalty.

[@ACoolRat12]

7:09 bro this is a KZbin video not a search bar.

[@steelmole101stg6]

Legolas needs an extra attack, don’t understand how he only has 2 attacks and why he also only has 2 will. Both need buffing

[@masterballuk6780]

Another excellent video thanks for doing something different keeps us going why we wait for new edition ps is it cold in the studio always got coat on won't feel the benefit when you go outside 😂

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

Another point I want to make is that there should be a de-buff of made-up heroes (especially those of evil factions). Sure, evil factions should have their heroes, but I do not think that it is reasonable for a character never mentioned in the books or shown in the films to be as good as (for example) Aragorn. So those heroes should have worse stats (and be cheaper), and evil factions should be more oriented towards monsters (like trolls or mumaks) and hordes of regular warriors (like orcs or Easterlings), not towards a group of cool heroes. And if you want to have cool evil heroes, at least make them from the characters mentioned in the books or shown in the films.

[@francescocorezzola1947]

I always thought some fight values aren't just right, someone like Elrond (who's been around for thousand years, second in command of the big king himself) would need a fight value of 7 just like Thranduil. This means Glorfindel would need an 8, just below Gil-galad. I think Durin would be also fine with a solid 7, I mean he is the most powerful dwarf in the lore.

[@fergie0044]

STRONGLY disagree about 2A nazgul! They are never shown as dangerous fighters, instead their main weapon is fear and terror, which is hard to represent in MESBG. Maybe a new spell that forces all enemies within 6" to take a terror test, if failed they cannot move that turn? (Just move, so it's not like a mass immobilise) Like their scream at Minas Tirth?

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

So, I am not very familiar with the rules and I've never played any games, only watched videos of them on KZbin, so my thought may be completely wrong or outdated, but I once saw a video of a game where Eowyn had only 1 wound. I am not sure if this is true in the current edition or not, but it is completely unacceptable! Eowyn was wounded during the fight with the Witch-King and continued to fight, so that means she clearly had at least 2 wounds. Maybe even more - she survived the whole battle before that and was not killed by the Black Breath after that. Any other buffs to her will be pretty useful too, I think it would actually be better not to make a specific buff to her against the Witch-king, since (while it is an iconic duel) she should be good in combat in general, not only in that specific rare situation.

[@davidboucher5751]

This is a really easy list to write. About half the heroes in this game are not worth their points! There are so many profiles that don't see the table and with reason. I can't wait to see the new edition. My main army is Rivendell: Arwen makes me cringe every time I read her profile. Gildor Inglorion got neutered by basic warriors every game I played him. Lindir is not worth his points in elven warriors. The Stormcaller is a joke. I've never seen Bilbo hit any table. Glorfindel made your list. Captains are okay at best. That's only from a single faction... I wish we had regular profile and points updates like other games.

[@muesliman100]

I actually podiumed (2nd place) last weekend with Elrond, Lindir, Isildur at a 38 participants event. My take is that Lindir is definitely worth his basic 65 points, especially in a magic heavy meta.

[@simonjernsletten5207]

If we're talking "lore", I don't really see why Lurtz would be more than any regular old uruk-hai captain. He survived a couple of rounds toe-to-toe with Strider, yeah, but that's already represented by having more than one wound and one attack (Aragorn probably rolled bad). I like the archery suggestions though. Would play well with the scouts. As for the Nazgûl, I always read them as relying on their ability to instill terror, which is represented through magic in the game (though I think we can all agree magic in MESBG doesn't correspond closely to Tolkien's vision... not even to Jackson's representation in the films). Even in the siege on Minas Tirith, they're mostly just flying around above on their fell beasts, taking out soldiers too afraid to even defend themselves. Tearing down that trebuchet though... the fell beasts sure have some hitting power. Legolas is still able to take one out with a single arrow (books), while Eowyn chops one's head off fairly easily. So once they're faced with heroes who are courageous enough to look them in the eye and take them head on (pun unintentional), their advantage disappears. Similarly, Aragorn's main strength isn't combat (he couldn't take on Sauron like Gil-Galad and his forefather Elendil, I'd wager), though he's admittedly pretty good; his strength lies in his ability to inspire allies. He does seem to have some innate ability to shrug off the influence of evil, though (Ring's influence, Sauron in the Palantir, etc.), so maybe magic resistance wouldn't be too bad. Though he's already considered one of the strongest charactersr in the game already, so not sure he needs a buff. Gandalf the White is kinda the same in a lot of the points mentioned, but I hard agree he needs a buff (way too expensive as is, for what you get, which is sad). Aura/banner effects are cool ways to represent that inspiration/leadership effect on the table; he should have one. Anyway, excited to see what GW's gonna cook up for the updated profiles. Thanks for the video!

[@muesliman100]

maybe they only lose a will point if their opponent makes a courage check? I think it would be pretty legit if they had an effect similar to the horn of gondor from Boromir

[@muesliman100]

I actually don't really like the horn of Gondor effect for Boromir btw: it does not represent what the horn should do, the horn should get his friends to come to him quicker, so almost a war drum kind of effect would be legit or a free move/march for someone else somewhere on the table

[@BaneChain236]

I want Celeborn to be cooked! He got bodied by Glorfindel in my last game. My man needs Fight 9. Idc if he can’t take a horse, just make him a monster

[@ConquestCreations]

I would defienetly keep him on foot but I wouldn't mind seeing him become stronger. That being said the army that won the 2023 (I think) Ardacon (Worlds largest tournament) had Celeborn in it!

[@BaneChain236]

@@ConquestCreations a pure Lothlorien list got 5th NOVA recently. It had Celeborn! I’m glad you’ve got a Lothlorien army now, they’re so much fun!

[@lukesenyshyn4886]

I agree magic is a bit much right now. My only thing I’m scared of is most chances talk about the good heroes getting super buffed (except lurtz everyone is saying he needs something) but I’m afraid good is going to be so good that it’s just going to be heroes doing everything and your troops aren’t going to be doing much. Just afraid it will take away from positioning troops and using battle tactics to win vs just having a fight 9 Aragon going around killing everything

[@ethanhunstiger4868]

Nazgûl should have variant profiles, sorcerer, warrior, leader.

[@muesliman100]

If the nazgûl would not lose will if they fight on fell beast that would be a reason to take them? Also make fluff sense because the fell beast is really doing most of the fighting. They should also have a bonus against Trebuchets to see them cracking those catapults on the Minas Tirith walls

[@pumazz1089]

The reasoning +1 to wound heroes for Lurtz's bow is weak. I think that he should be able to shoot into combat without an In The Way for friendly models and maybe just a good shoot value.

[@michaelchaney877]

Fell beasts should nullify the will of evil rule. Also, fell beasts should not be available to ringwraiths in armies other than those who fought after the wraiths were washed away in the Bruinen. Looking at Angmar and Baradur mostly.

[@lutzeichmeyer9338]

I could not disagree more about the nazgul! I think will of evil is one of the coolest and most unique mechanics in the game, and that simply making the fell beast F6 would fix it, especially in the context of Mordor with only 2 F6+ heroes. I think that the named combat nazgul should be 2 attacks though, and the casters with bonuses to casting. Also a dwimmerlaik buff to make the ability go off on a 2+.

[@onemisterfranko]

Please make them get a bit closer to the books. Also, nice army are we going to get to see them soon on the channel?

[@ConquestCreations]

It's on the way. I painted it up for the upcoming Quest of the Ringbearer campaign which is coming very soon

[@onemisterfranko]

@ConquestCreations oh cool! Looking forward to seeing it!

[@TheKodiak72]

Isengard really needs a buff. Just had my first game using the Wolf pack of Angmar, for 10 points less then Lurtz a warg chieftain is so much better.

[@ConquestCreations]

Isengard overall is a very solid faction. However, in a tournament just last weekend my Lurtz went head to head with a warg chieftain. I decided to use the Heroic challenge special rule and then got absolutley destroyed and gave the Warg extra might.

[@trojanhatchet8204]

All elf lords should simply get master crafted half hands lmao

[@silveryoyo2293]

Buff Faramir and Glorfindel!

[@ConquestCreations]

I do agree, Faramir is the most popular character in the comments. Everyone wants to see him buffed!

[@williamhamilton1154]

Hey everyone! On here looking for advice. I’m looking to finally pick up this game and there’s no one to play with around here so I’m going to be learning the rules and running the game for my friends. If anyone has any tips on how to annotate the rules for quick reference please let me know. Thanks.

[@mennorach]

The Osgiliath box has a quick reference sheet in it. I would suggest that for starting the game. Not to mention that it gives two good sized forces and some terrain. Good luck on your journey, the beginning is always the hardest part!

[@williamhamilton1154]

@@mennorach thanks friend. I’ll see if I can source that sheet. But I have the Battle in Balin’s Tomb as a starter. I found it in a board game shop in a rural area, knew it was rare and bought it. So until I get a handle on the game that’s my starter.

[@leonk.3739]

Really good list and I agree with a lot of it. But I don't see any issue with the fellbeasts at all. Making the Nazguls 2 a wouldn't change anything because FBs are 3a anyway. They are also very good and seen a lot in very competitive top tier lists (for example Antonio won the Ardacon masters with a WK on FB).

[@ClaymoreLinx]

@@leonk.3739 I think part of the issue Jacob has is that the FellBeasts do not do what they do in the books or films. I use them and barge all the time to simulate that kind of thing, but I think he is mostly right.

[@leonk.3739]

@@ClaymoreLinx Yes this part of his statement is true. Maybe they (or all flying monsters?) need something similar to the pluck special rule from the Gundabad war bats?

[@Gustavo-zf2pr]

Mouth of Sauron should be on the list.

[@Jewus19]

hell no, he is a beautiful and just right profile, I take him EVERY game. He never disappointed.

[@tjsmith8348]

I think heroes with rules that debuff them need a double take and the captain models something unique that only Captains can do, some armies they really are pointless. Eowyn is an example where if Theoden dies she's anchored to that point and can be considered gone from the game most of the time. Don't get me wrong if Theoden dies in an important spot, could be great for the rule, but can still just be shot dead and move on. Similarly Theodred with Reckless charge, having to screen him from charging all the time and him being so easy to bait into bad situations, I love the idea of running a list with him but I would rather not be forced to play around that rule as much, maybe if it was down to a courage test on a low chance? I like rules that fit a flaw of the character but sometimes they feel more trouble than worth. As for a general buff, Faramir please, I like his character a lot but he does not feel good to play

[@ConquestCreations]

I am a big fan of de-buff rules. I find them to be a lot of fun and the make a lot of sense thematically. With regular captains I am in two minds about them. On one hand I would like to see all of them get more unique flavor similar to how the iron Hill Captain has Master of Battle (5+). But on the other hand I love the characters and I like that they take the place of captains most of the time. Faramir has been a super popular one in the comments and i totally agree! I hope he gets a change in the new edition

[@tjsmith8348]

@@ConquestCreations I think one nice thing for Faramir would be to give him a +1 to his wound on shooting Monsters, the scene in Two Towers movie where he shoots the Fell Beast always rings in my head for Faramir even if not in the books, he's ambushing Haradrim so dealing with big beasts often.

[@trojanhatchet8204]

Glorfindel mighty hero all elf lords need master crafted half hand

[@cf8476]

But Aragorn gets the free might to do strikes and resolves he cant also be F9 (he's inferior to Elendil) and W5/fortify spirit that would make him unbalanced and not suitable for an mesbg game. mesbg is not 40k. it's the other profiles that need change, particularly those from the hobbit.

[@robertedwardhughes9172]

The Necromancer. I’ve literally never won a game with him. He’s way too expensive for what he brings to the table, so I think they need to make his LL ability standard, where he gets 2 spells and 2 attacks per turn. That would make him worth the points.

[@ConquestCreations]

Interesting, the necromancer just won a 40 player tournament here in Australia. I have always thought for 250 points he is a very solid caster.

[@MathieuVuylsteke]

Not enough comments here about Eomer. He's not that bad but definitely needs to be F6 and/or make him 10p cheaper

[@grimgrauman7650]

Eomer is a beast if the enemy is not Fight 5. With the +1 Strenght on the charge he can kill a lot and he also tanks a lot. But he should get Fight 6

[@sjins1poolboy698]

agreed, always felt like a rip-off for Eómer that Tolkien wrote of him as an equal of Aragorn and Imrahil on the Pelennor but his profile just doesn't stack up with theirs.

[@bendeguzvarga816]

But WHEN IS IT COMING OUT?

[@joseito46]

Hello I am planning to get a 3d printer I would like to know if you could recommend me a place where I can buy the files for printing them thanks

[@ConquestCreations]

Well I have just the place to go! Check out the Conquest Creations webstore the link is in the description of the videos. We have a lot of awesome terrain and plenty more on the way

[@syd4890]

I dont think FOTR Glorfindel is the same from the first age that killed Gothmog?

[@sjins1poolboy698]

Do you mean he's changed a lot or that it's a different character? At any rate, Glorfindel did not kill Gothmog, that was Ecthelion, however, Glorfindel absolutely did kill a different balrog in single combat while escaping Gondolin. He died as a result but was re-embodied in Valinor, then was sent back to Middle Earth part way through the second age. So it is indeed the same Glorfindel in fellowship as it is in the first age, I suppose even all 9 ringwraiths must be like child's play when you have slew a Balrog in your resumé.

[@alexanderwerner9294]

It's sorta a redcon by Tolkien. Iirc, it was after having written LOTR that he decided that LOTR Glorfindel is indeed the same as the First Age Glorfindel who slew an unnamed Balrog during the Fall of Gondolin. This was partially because every Elf is supposed to have a unique name, though he certainly did not adhere to it consistently, as there are, for example, two different Elves named Legolas. You won't find any reference to it in any of his own published works. But if you are interested you should easily find it in The Letters of Tolkien if you search for Glorfindel.

[@MN_Werewolf]

Gimli is terrible, especially compared to newer heroes around 100 points I disagree with fellbests, they are played a lot in Poland, especially in armies with more than one caster

[@joshuaorourke1976]

Look at Gimpli compared to other similar cost Dwarfs like Dwalin. Gimpli is a joke.

[@dz5382]

I wish GW make Aragorn cheaper, imo 240 point is too much

[@ConquestCreations]

I reckon it makes sense for him to be the most expensive hero on the good side, I reckon I would keep his points the same but increase his potency to fulfil the points

[@MicheleCristofari-t9q]

I do not expect Farmir to be buffed, since the new Dunedain Arnor hero sucks even more and costs almost the same... I agree with you about Aragorn and Gandalf, poor Gandalf... love him , I even wrote GW begging them to create at least a Gandal'f the White legendfary legion (the defence of Minas Tirith). I'd rather give him a rule that allows him to cast even though being in combat, instead of a re-roll

[@simondrury7941]

The Nazgul have never been quite right in the rules and the losing of will with each fight does not make sense to me. Maybe like the army of the dead they target Courage to wound.

[@АнтонОрлов-я1ъ]

I think Nazgul should lose will if they do not win the fight (if they lose or tie), but not if they win. This way Nazgul will be very effective against weak foes but not effective against mighty heroes, which seems pretty close to their descriptions in the books. The ability to target Courage (as an option) seems also useful and true to the lore.

[@rokassan]

Saruman needs a buff. Attacks, Defense ,better spells. Hes not human. Uruk hi Berzerkers…better fight, better feel no pain

[@ConquestCreations]

Thanks for the comment, I hope the Berzerkers get a better saving. Taking it to 5+ instead of 6 would feel better. Saruman is already one of the best casters. I reckon get a bit more practice with him. If he were any better it would be insane. I have played a lot of games with him.

[@rokassan]

@@ConquestCreations physically? He gets caught up in melee and it’s big trouble. I agree I need to learn to use him better I suppose. Any suggestions?

[@CaptnLoken]

ARAGORN with an RRRRRRR

[@ConquestCreations]

Hahaha still ignoring this comment

[@dashsocur]

0:13 Is that a preview of the next set you're working on? It looks very nice. :)