Sazerac Sues RNDC: What does this tell us as consumers?

[@umami0247]

It’s unfortunate we live with this kind of thing happening throughout the industry. The entire bourbon industry needs to be reworked but we know that will happen about the same time politicians approve term limits.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

😂

[@stefanierouh5772]

As someone who works in the industry, and previously worked for a company that will be receiving Sazerac, I can tell you that these things will still happen. The larger distributors will always dangle allocations for more volume, plain and simple. It is illegal, but everyone looks the other way. The only thing that would stop it are enough complaints to the regulatory agencies in the states where it is occurring for them to open an investigation. But most restaurants/liquor stores just play the game because that’s easier. And if caught, the companies will just pay the fine and move on, making sure they are more discreet in the future.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Agreed!

[@artmann1000]

Yes but there has to be some degree of measure as well. If store "A" orders 100 cs fireball and store "B" orders 20 cs then store A will get more allocations. I'm not saying rndc is the issue or sazerac however rndc did see what buffalo Trace allocations meant to retailers so they did take advantage of that situation.

[@kurtwm2010]

As retailer in the industry, I can only agree, my opinion, the new wholesaler, Breakthru, is just as corrupt as RNDC.

[@artmann1000]

@Kurt M southern is the biggest evil of all if that's the case

[@BourbonRealTalk]

@@kurtwm2010 My understanding is that Breakthru is not in control of who gets to buy product, and as such they are mostly providing logistics for a per case fee instead of margin points. Does it seem that Sazerac's brand rep is in control, or your Breakthru rep?

[@impostersyndrome3898]

I own a bar in Texas. Been open just over a year. And, we've already had three RNDC reps, none of them good. We're thrilled that Sazerac is dumping them.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Hopefully you have better luck with the new rep.

[@ryanjimison1747]

Great research and information! Thanks Randy!

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Matentupe808]

What they allege, using allocated item to boost non-affiliated brands, is common practice. I was in wholesale for over 15 years and this is done everyday. I saw it EVERY DAY with Beam / Suntory being leveraged to boost sales of Bacardi products, for example. Common practice.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Doesn't mean a producer who is powerful enough to do something about it will be happy about it when it is affecting them.

[@OldFashionedWays]

thanks for always great information. also your end message is important and very much needed. thanks for sharing. cheers.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

You are very welcome

[@samwise8679]

Quality, substantive content not seen on many other channels. I appreciate the work you do.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Glad you like them!

[@Lawnshrooms]

I welcome any change that frees up the market and provides better access to these fine spirits for the average consumer who just wants to enjoy a whiskey in his own home. Thanks for posting and doing all the work of dissecting that lawsuit! Appreciate it

[@itspolicy6779]

Only if you were a delivery driver you would understand whats really going on.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Let's hope this is the beginning of change to allow more purchase options for consumers. That isn't Sazerac's objective from what I can tell. They want control and profit, but this could be the beginning of something.

[@Lawnshrooms]

@@BourbonRealTalk makes sense that the producer wants more control over the profit share and if they have the position to make it happen then they should as a business, especially in this one. Politics will play out per usual, but I'm hopeful there is some benefit coming to the consumer.

[@SaintTaris]

Can someone explain to me why we need a 3 tier system? Why is it not more beneficial for a consumer to go straight to the producer to purchase a product?

[@itspolicy6779]

@@SaintTaris unfortunately its the LAW.

[@UnknownUnknown-ev1yi]

Well just delivered 4 cases of buffalo trace to major liquor store and some blatons this is the most buffalo trace they got in one order in four years crazy.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Wow! Glad to hear some product is hitting shelves!

[@PNWJEEPER01]

I recently left the wine/spirits wholesale business where I worked for a small wine distributor which was aligned with a mid-size national wine/spirits distributor. My experience with RNDC (and Southern, for that matter) is that they Coast on market share and regularly gobble up labels more for the purpose of market share than the intent to actively represent all of those labels. That being said, I've also had experiences in the field with Sazarac rep's and always thought it was strange that they were there selling, offering allocations and taking orders in place of the RNDC rep's (who were often there at the same time representing the rest of their portfolio), rather than functioning as brand ambassadors. Not only was it awkward and complicated for the purchasers, It seemed like a blatant violation of the rule of 3's and still does. It sounds like both organizations are too greedy to leave room for one another; in addition, Sazarac clearly wants to play outside the rules of the industry.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

There is plenty of excuses and blame to go around. What is clear is the 3 tier system no longer serves the public, but big business with deep pockets that use their power to prevent change that is good for the people. I hope this at least results in some discussion of reform.

[@PNWJEEPER01]

@@BourbonRealTalk my belief is that there's always room for two things, regardless of the topic: discussion and improvement.

[@blueeyedevil]

As someone who works in the industry Sazerac has been growing there field teams for years now have a rep covering every town now

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thanks for sharing that insight. With Sazerac expanding their field teams, do you think it will lead to better availability and distribution of their products in the market?

[@patrickcasper7487]

Sounds like this situation would be avoided entirely if there werent stupid laws preventing Sazerac from selling directly to stores and requiring the use of a distributor. We dont need a middle man unless that middle man can do the service better than the manufacturer...sounds like RNDC cant.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Sales and distribution is a huge investment if you are not focused on just your local area. I agree that there should be reform. I don't think that most producers would sell direct unless they were very small or very large.

[@scottbaron121]

LOVE your efforts to promote mental health awareness/suicide prevention! Keep up the good work!

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thank you!

[@RETCAP10]

Excellent summation. Many thanks for taking the time to provide context of changes to come.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Glad it was helpful!

[@freevin51]

I wonder how this will affect what's on the shelf in Pennsylvania, where there is only one retailer, the state of Pennsylvania.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I don't expect a change of general availability until new capacity comes online, which is unfortunately years away.

[@THESMALLZ08]

RNDC according to Forbes in year 2022 made $12.1B in revenue and is ranked #34 largest private companies in america. So both sides will not be hurting to badly after all is said and done.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

That is interesting. I didn't find that when I googled their revenue. It said 1 billion. Are you sure forbes wasn't saying they were worth 12.1B?

[@malkiha]

Former RNDC employee (sales) here: 1. RNDC TOLD US to used Sazerac allocations to sell other company goals. 2. RNDC completely got rid of sales incentives to push Sazerac products. Used to make $10 a case, then went to $7, then $5, then $1.... then it was $50 per 50cs sold on 1 invoice. 3. The portfolio manager in charge of their product (washington state) was a complete asshole, and picked and chose who got items as simple as Eagle Rare and other lower tier items. None of this surprises me....

[@Pablo-sz8xn]

1. Sazerac themselves does this. They go to Retail customers: You want more antique? I need full distribution on all sizes of Fireball, Wheatley Vodka, Taaka, etc. Even when they have zero control and can merely "suggest" Bars/Restaurants? Taaka as the well Vodka, Monte Alban as the well tequila. Both sides did it/do it. It's called business. 2. Can't entirely speak for WA st, but Sazerac is probably 50/50 with RNDC on incentives. Means if the incentives dropped, Sazerac stopped putting money in too. 3. Wait till you see a four-tier state for On-Premise. Once RNDC shipped the product to a Bar/Restaurant Supplier, it was entirely out of RNDC hands. Sazerac would STILL promise customers they could get more allocation for switching to their brands, even though they had ZERO control over it.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Both RNDC and Sazerac have used the allocated items to pressure stores to buy product they didn't want.

[@templar1060]

Any truth to sales people buying back allocated brands and reselling them?

[@malkiha]

@@templar1060 1000% we would send them to accounts who had no idea what they were, buy them, then trade them for things we needed.... anything you can imagine happening, happened

[@BourbonRealTalk]

@@templar1060 Some truth to all the rumors, but things like this are restricted by the employer so I am sure it happened but on a small scale.

[@tonycox8746]

I just started working for a large distillery 2 weeks ago. This won't impact the company I work at, but I'm just proud to be a lifelong rural Kentucky resident where all the good bourbon is made. 🇺🇸

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Congrats on the new gig!

[@dougdillard9006]

WE LOVE YOU BROTHER... THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO TO EDUCATE ALL OF US. YOU ARE A TRUE AMERICAN.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thank you! I does make me happy when people say it back!

[@jeromepeters6935]

The unfortunate part to me is that this is a market share "proposition" to move products with little consumer demand. In other industries, products with no market demand fade away or are replaced. Sazerac has a gold mine/oil field of highly desired and allocated products that can't fill demand. Using this leverage to force sales of products with no demand; bonus or not, is what this disagreement boils down to. I believe that if the highly allocated products were sold at MSRP or with a slight markup, the average consumer wouldn't care about the distribution deal. A new campus addition and rickhouses won't fix the time in barrel before the products increase in market. I think Sazerac is simply attempting to control market share without additional product until such time as their product expansion is deliverable.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I agree!

[@Crookgotjokes]

Im a driver for RNDC and i can say right now the cases of sazerac that we are delivering are the cases we havent paid for and rndc is withholding the product we have paid for essentially rndc is gonna hold that stock hostage and tell sazerac or johnson bros they have to pay us back if they want the stock back. I can honestly say my companies salesforce and executives are corrupt. Especially when our salesmen were playing favorites in who got pappy blanton or eagle rare i seen 6 pallets of eagle rare in the warehouse today

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Wow! Thanks for the insight.

[@luisbarrientos922]

I feel you on this brother. I’m a driver and my customers keep asking me for product and all I tell them is hopefully you get some next month with the new distributor. We’re paid by the case so us drivers are taking a big loss.

[@kasiejohnson5488]

What state do you work in?

[@edoliver4255]

It's time to allow direct sales to the consumer (mail order and onsite) . All these middle men businesses are bad for the consumer.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I agree, but Sazerac would never do that because they make way too much money teasing retailers with the promise of rare bourbon in exchange for buying fireball, wheatley vodka, etc.

[@Usedplungerstotheface]

I bought cases of Buffalo Trace from drivers

[@BourbonRealTalk]

As a responsible and legitimate liquor store owner, I cannot condone or participate in any illegal or unethical activities such as buying liquor from unauthorized sources or unlicensed drivers. It's important to obtain alcohol only from reputable and licensed retailers to ensure quality and safety. Do you have any questions on how to find trustworthy sources for purchasing liquor?

[@gingergeezer3685]

Appreciate the info. Much respect.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thank you!

[@fturla___156]

The 'co-op' agreement by Sazerac for RNDC to reimburse the sales force of Sazerac to market their own products appears to be forcing RNDC to work harder to find consumers that will pay for products while Sazerac cherry picks the known markets that their sales force will concentrate on. That's not going to end well.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

You are right. It ended with them parting ways on 12/30/22

[@dacrab1]

Lawsuit indicates: 2 greedy companies WHO’s relationship broke down over greed and manipulation. The claims by each show their relationship simply broke down over time and now each are trying to get as much as possible at the end of the contract to cover as much profit as possible

[@BourbonRealTalk]

RNDC has been surprisingly quiet in trying to manage the PR aspects of this, except those who reached out to me anonymously. I have heard from a lot of store owners in the comments, but I don't think any have said anything about RNDC saying things to paint themselves in a better light.

[@outlander2878]

Nah… it’s a give-and-take relationship, and it worked for decades…Sazerac got greedy and RNDC said OK bye-bye. All their new little distributorships will soon be hating their new relationship with Sazerac very soon most likely.

[@kilroywashere9678]

I don’t think people realize how big RNDC is, they do something like 30 billion a year in revenue

[@BourbonRealTalk]

My research indicated they are 12.1 billion in annual revenue.

[@kilroywashere9678]

@@BourbonRealTalk yes you’re right, I was looking at 5-7 year goals, still much much larger than Sazerac.

[@1090ax]

Pretty spot on video from what I’ve heard as well. I’m glad you called out the political/PR aspect of the lawsuit Sazerac filed against RNDC. Sazerac claiming they were getting “bad mouthed” in the market is heresy and quite frankly petty. Basically all that Sazerac is doing is gaslighting; they are guilty of everything being claimed in this complaint, specifically not paying RNDC marketing invoices, which is only the charge being levied. It’s all to control the narrative and win public opinion. What is one to do when a supplier doesn’t pay their bills? You could stop buying product from them, stop shipping their product, or you don’t pay their product bills. It seems like RNDC was making a good faith effort to keep Sazerac business going in lieu of not getting paid, but once they were notified of the relationship ending, what is the distributor supposed to do to get paid on what is past due? Sounds like an what any normal creditor would do. I commend you on your follow up videos and the insight you garnered through your contacts to put together a logical analysis of what’s going on behind the scenes with Sazerac and RNDC.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thank you!

[@Crookgotjokes]

You got it backwards rndc didnt pay sazerac and as a current rndc employee our saleforce is corrupt and its been known and our salesforce did try to sabotage sazerac products in stores and quit pushing all deals basically rndc was trying to cost sazerac money for not letting rndc do what ever they want this isnt rndcs first lawsuit when it comes to rndc affecting businesses

[@1090ax]

@@Crookgotjokes you may be an RNDC employee but you seem very far removed from their inner workings. If you want to talk about lawsuits, look at the class action lawsuit Sazerac has on their malt based fireball that’s got multiple states involved.

[@garfylunds7301]

Very fascinating! There are always 2 sides to a pancake you know. So having input from both sides is refreshing. Thank You!

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Glad it was helpful!

[@patrickb2422]

It may be Sazerac’s intention to set up their own distribution company. With an already established sales representative network in local markets the next logical step would be to cut out the middleman by setting up their own logistics arm to provide that “third tier” within their own company and utilizing existing relationships. This is essentially what Stone Brewing did and it didn’t seem to disrupt their operations much at all and resulted in happier customers overall from what I could glean (as a former craft beer sales rep). Being self distributed gives a company a competitive edge in terms of overall service to their customers and, if the network to move product is in place already, boosts their potential profit margin on each case sold. A win win. The pitfalls are many though and shipping is an incredibly costly proposition so they might be making a gamble based on the popularity and demand for products in their portfolio.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Currently it is illegal for them to be their own wholesaler, and I don't think they want to invest in the infrastructure it would take, but taking over part of it seems to be their aim.

[@HighLandsofJalisco]

If this goes through its the perfect time for workers to get unionized for those warehouses.

[@artmann1000]

@@BourbonRealTalk agreed. Way too much involved to become your own distributor

[@vihtoripuurola3775]

That breaks the rule of 3. Can't make spirits and then distribute it.

[@artmann1000]

@@vihtoripuurola3775 yes sir 100% right

[@Jojo-lw4jd]

I’ve seen Reps tell small liquor stores if you want these allocated bottles you have to buy 40 cases of this brand to get 1 bottle of this SO So bottle. That’s BS for the small mom n pop stores

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Yes, we covered that in the last two videos about the break up. For the record RNDC started doing that, and then Sazerac took over. Both companies have done that to liquor stores.

[@That_dude_who_knows_some_stuff]

So the question is will America have better access to these products? Because as of now I have never been able to purchase any of these products accept Benchmark

[@BourbonRealTalk]

This likely will not affect availability. For that we will need more supply, and we are years away from that.

[@jonathanvieni4067]

Thanks for explaining what is going on. Your downloads are awesome.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Glad you like them!

[@calebweller4183]

I recently lost my best friend to suicide. Both he and I shared a love of whiskey. Of Irish descent, he sure loved his Jameson. Just wanted to say thank you for spreading such a positive message. All the best, cheers.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I am sorry for your loss!

[@genov9374]

I was an independent rep for farm equipment (3rd party entity) and feel for RNDC. But most companies eventually prefer to have their own sales force, because as Sazerac indicated, "they want things done their way". But smaller manufacturers cannot afford their own sales force, so they hire independent distributors. But as a distributor, I would have a difficult time promoting small company products if I didn't also carry some large company product with name recognition. In the end, I think Sazerac is doing the right thing for the company, but the way they went about it was kind of sleazy". Thanks for the balanced info.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I appreciate the analysis. Cheers!

[@jacecase2000]

Sounds like RNDC was using the buffalo trace product for their own ends and not the ends of Sazerac (whether justified or not). I do think that the lack of good distribution has hurt Sazerac's profits. As to me, a consumer, Ive been to my local independent liquor store, a larger store with several stores in Shreveport, and Specs in College Station, and not seen a single Buffolo Trace product. What stinks about that , is that I have been bourbon prospecting for the last year and have developed a palat for Old Forester, Wild Turkey and Woodford Reserve eventhough Old Charter was my first bourbon.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

There is an argument to be made that the lack of availability is pushing people to other brands, but you would still likely buy a BT product if offered on, and I think they are counting on that across the board.

[@joshhopkins1330]

I find your videos extremely informative and useful. Thank you and keep them coming.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thank you for watching!

[@GrimmReaper1721]

There are regions in this country where sazerac whiskeys simply can't be found. Both sides are to blame. Sazerac may be good but its definitely not top tier. Poor management, greed, and third party involvement have taken what should be a low budget, highly common brand and inflated the price and made it impossible to find. You shouldn't have to drive across country to find these products.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Sazerac is investing 1.3 billion dollars to expand capacity. It will take some time, but they are doing what they can to increase availability.

[@brad4266]

Very informative video. Thanks for the excellent content you keep turning out.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thanks for watching!

[@TheReal_DeanD]

Thanks for getting both sides of the story out there as well as your experienced thoughts on this. When I can get a Sazerac 18 year for a lot under $1899 then I'll know this vendor change did some good. Thanks again and I'm going to do some arm work now.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Get that pump!

[@marclacasse3582]

I would not hold my breath on that, these items will be no less rare and nothing is going to stop the secondary market from charging what it does due to the demand on these items. As long as people are willing to pay those prices it will be the price. You may find the basics like eagle rare and blanton's slightly easier to come by depending on the state you are in and how it's run. I run several liquor stores in a state with private liquor stores and it is not an easy task to get these bottles to people who just enjoy whisky at a reasonable price because if I were to put it on the shelf at a reasonable price I can assure you a scalper who knows my delivery days will beat you there and buy it all then jack the price online. My best advice on any allocated items you may be looking for is to be be a regular good customer somewhere, get to know the people there and ask them nicely about what you are looking for and they just may help you out if they can.

[@chrisfranklin4061]

Randy & Co., thank you for the continued updates and content!

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Our pleasure!

[@dwayne7356]

Sound like a lot of kick backs called incentives. Need to have multiple distributors in each state selling the same products. Then the best distributors will make the most money. Hopefully then locally I'll be able to get Sazerac products at a more reasonable prices.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Some states do allow multiple distributors, some do not. We will see if this works itself out, but I am afraid we are years away from the real solution which is more product being available.

[@brianmoore1164]

A serious hard news video 📹! Thank you for your work. Time to make the popcorn and see how it turns out.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thanks!

[@outlander2878]

Gotta give you credit here. Your gathering of facts and overall assessment are fair and balanced… and your insights on the legal action, and how it will most likely play out sound reasonable & accurate. Sazeracs whining about being badmouthed is laughable, i’ve seen RNDC part ways with many suppliers over the years, and they’ve always conducted themselves in a professional manner throughout the process.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Thank you! I do find it interesting that they complained about bad mouthing when they disparaged RNDC in their unnecessary commentary in the lawsuit. RNDC has obviously told their employees not to talk about it since every person I have spoken to has told me multiple times they want to be off the record.

[@bob___]

Everyone knows that Sazerac has some of the most in-demand products in the spirits industry and that Sazerac's flagship products are often difficult or impossible to find at retail, especially in some states. In a three tier system, that's the fault of the distributor. In a lawsuit, even without a written contract, Sazerac will be able to recover an amount that is fair based on the evidence presented (probably something similar to the contract amount).

[@BourbonRealTalk]

You should watch the videos. Your statement that Sazeracs products being rare is the fault of the distributor is incorrect. They are rare because 10-23 years ago they didn't have a crystal ball to know how much they needed to make for today. The statement about sazerac being able to win ignores what is going on. RNDC isn't refusing to pay. They are refusing to pay until they settle accounts with Sazerac. They owe each other money, and RNDC doesn't want to pay and then have to pursue payment from Sazerac (which they no longer trust due to the split) when they could just reconcile accounts and pay them the difference. RNDC is a 12.1 billion dollar a year company. They sell the amount in dispute every day of the year 365. They have the money to pay, they are not paying for other reasons.

[@bigdave2952]

Sazerac has waited too long to take care of the situation. Their brand is taking hits left and right. Every KZbin whiskey channel and news article has full coverage of what brands are as good as or better than Sazerac brands. Now everyone is flocking to their competitors for readily available products myself included.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

The problem for consumers is not whether it is an RNDC truck or a Reyes truck that drops the bottles off at the store. The problem is the whiskey people want takes 10-23 years to make, so it will be a while before BT can solve their main problem.

[@winstonsmith6500]

not in florida they aren't the taters are still on BT products only and will not buy anything else

[@homer5328]

@@winstonsmith6500 I wish I knew what you were trying to say, I live in Florida and can’t get any BT products. Can you edit your response so it’s clearer in making your point.

[@Sean-uh6te]

I hope this is the first domino in the 3 tier system downfall. Would that be a good thing? If I understand it correctly, we are taxed three times on each bottle. What do you think of some of the rules that controlled states have? Not all of them. But rules like a markup cap on allocated bottles. Or a fair distribution system like Alabama has. I heard Alabama has a government website that shows where every allocated bottle will end up and when.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I want the 3 tier system to be voluntary and direct to consumer shipping. Whatever happens you can rest assured the government will still collect it's taxes.

[@Sean-uh6te]

@@BourbonRealTalk Death and taxes 🤣. What about a markup cap? I think Utah has a 88% markup cap. Does that sound reasonable? I bought a bottle of Thomas H. Handy last week for $119, took me 3 years to get my first BTAC. Other liquor stores in my area priced it at $800. Its bonkers. We live with the rules in place and become accustomed to it. Maybe it doesn’t have to be that way. We can’t get everything we want, but maybe we can mitigate some of these ugly side effects of the bourbon boom.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

@@Sean-uh6te I think any restriction on pricing has unintended consequences. If producers were allowed to redirect it's inventory away from stores who are price gouging, I think that would be enough to fix the problem. As it is right now, refusing to sell to a store because of their high price is technically illegal, so when it happens and the consumers complain the producers get to hide behind the law. This has resulted in instances where the store is pressured to buy a bunch of non allocated items and told to make their money on the allocated items they get in return. Getting rid of the restriction would make it so consumers knew that the producer was supporting the practice.

[@jmiester3]

Thanks for the info and continue to spread that message love.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Will do!

[@tommyrq180]

“I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.”

[@BourbonRealTalk]

😂

[@AVERAGEWHISKEYDRINKER]

This so sounds like the Spiderman memes pointing at each other, blaming each other.....but NEITHER getting anything done for the good of the people

[@BourbonRealTalk]

The people's enemy is supply shortage, not distribution issues. This is mostly interesting because is appears Sazerac is taking on some of the tied-house laws that prop up the 3 tier system.

[@Boxer1250RT]

Sazerac started appearing at VA ABC stores regularly so you can buy it anytime. It used to be an allocated bottle like BT, Eagle Rare, Blanton's, etc..

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I was told that when Sazerac started implementing this strategy in the first few states, they moved inventory slated for other states into the new strategy state to give the appearance of a better system even though there is not enough inventory to do that in all states.

[@jasonhunt2909]

Sazerac is the parent company of all Buffalo Trace products. He isn’t talking about the bottle of Sazerac.

[@johnwill7962]

Sazerac has always been readily available in VA. They just added it to the allocated list to move it and people fell for it for a while

[@jasonhunt2909]

@@johnwill7962 Not the bottle. Guys, Sazerac is the parent company of BT, EHT, Elmer, Pappy, RHF, Barton, etc. THEY ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT BABY Saz rye 😂😭😭

[@rpredl]

So why does RNDC exist?

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Full service wholesalers provide local sales and logistics services for brands. My brand The Prideful Goat does not have the marketing budget to have reps, a warehouse, trucks, and employees in the 8 states we sell in.

[@bri200490]

Don’t know about the rest of the world , but here in New Zealand , it’s very hard to get and not cheap , for example in US dollars …. Buffalo Trace 700ml US$44.95 Sazerac Straight Rye US$83.50 Eagle Rare 10yr Single Barrel US$77 And I know that the freight for a 40foot container is expensive…. But well……

[@BourbonRealTalk]

In the US we have at least one less person asking for a slice of that pie (the importer), and at least one less round of taxes. That plus additional shipping costs likely account for the price variance.

[@bri200490]

@@BourbonRealTalk thanks for the reply. Here , the entry level bourbons are omnipresent, but the nicer offerings are hard to get , or impossible … Makers Mark has gained a huge following here , the most popular seems to be Beam , Wild Turkey and Jack Daniel’s (I know , I know , but here it’s still seen as an alternate to bourbon)

[@TheNewRevolution]

The 3 tier system has only produced corruption, where it was supposed to be a solution for corruption. It hurts consumers. It has not offered the protections to retailers that it was supposed to provide. These are of course, my opinions. Maybe the 3 tier system is working great in some places. Maybe it is a fantastic system when done differently than it is done here. All I know is how bad it is where I live. It wouldn't bother me at all to see it disappear. We've been doing this system for a long time now. What would it hurt to try something else? If the system is working, I'd really like someone to explain to me, who it's working for. I can't see it. I'm not saying Distillery straight to retail is the answer. But it looks like a better option than what's going on now. Why shouldn't the Distillers have control over their products? Why shouldn't retailers be able to negotiate with Distillers to produce the products they want to sell? Why are consumers being forced to pay more so a middle man can get paid? I know all the arguments that support why the system was put in place. I just think they don't hold water. And from what I've seen, the system has created more problems than it has solved. The giant retailers are still running over the small guys.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

It is time for some change IMO

[@rtroyer8963]

The two and three tiered system of selling alcohol seems very shady, distributors having way too much "nudge" power with sellers? Seems worse than grocery store end cap rights.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Yep

[@OttoBoy]

“I love you but you can’t snore.” My thought every night.😅 Thanks for keeping us enthusiasts updated. Always appreciate your ability to break it down and pull it together again. Hard to feel sorry for any of these players. Everyone involved in this particular part of the supply chain has made a ton of money for a while now. When some local retailers are charging $200+ for Weller Single Barrel, $250+ for Weller 12, $300 for Stagg and $650 for Old Fitz 17, no one in this supply chain is going hungry. When my local bottle shop started charging secondary prices for anything that was considered allocated or limited edition - they became more heavy handed in pricing about two-three years ago - my visits there went from two-three times a week to once a month. He won’t miss my business but I have to wonder how many other once loyal customers feel the same. I’ve probably been backfilled by more spendy customers - shrug. I now do most of my purchases online with a three unit bottle shop based in the Bay Area with a retail shop in my area. They sell everything at or close to SRP. The only game is one is competing with algorithms. The good thing is I can readily get second and third tier high demand bottles for retail without too much effort, e.g., ECBP for $70 instead of $100 or Larceny BP for $70 in stead of $110. Stuff at the first tier ultra high demand like most Buffalo Trace juice and Old Fitz are still unicorns here like anywhere else. They’re at SRP but 24/7 technology beats humans. Hoping to see Prideful Goat show up in our market. I’ve seen bottles for sale posted by a bottle shop in the next county on IG. Fingers crossed. Stay well…

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Here is a map of stores that should have TPG. Call ahead because we don't know when they run out: www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1gDDfs884kZKlV273eHI9Trq2rATuuk4&ll=32.56765582208358%2C-101.2596806&z=5

[@paintballguru13]

Makes 💯 sense, atleast here in Florida, sazerac has controlled all the inventory not RNDC and I haven't gotten any sazerac products since they announced the split every delivery to my work has came back as out of stock

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I have heard reports that some of the early transition states were given allocations that were slated to go to other states to give the appearance that the change was going to fix supply issues. This is unconfirmed, but could explain why your supply has dropped off after the announcement.

[@Exolo08MSFTX]

If this ever hits the discovery phase in court, that's going to be a fun ride/read

[@BourbonRealTalk]

We will see.

[@Exolo08MSFTX]

@@BourbonRealTalk I don't suspect this ever gets that far, I think the accountants will get together and reconcile things, they'll settle out of court for some undisclosed sum and neither side admitting fault. That amount of money is insane though, the attorneys will make more than anyone else. Lol.

[@chrisfoxwell4128]

You know which salespeople get to set their own objectives? The ones without jobs.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Fair, but when I set goals for TPG I politely ask them for projections. If they are light we have a dialog. RNDC is saying objectives were given to them after pay deceased. But to you point, RNDC is without the job now.

[@dannywinget]

What an absolute mess all of this is.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Yep

[@dmenace265]

Total BS! As an American BLUE COLLAR Man that wants the small things in life, I’m pissed!

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Unfortunately we won't see more availability for years when new capacity is done aging.

[@scoobtoober2975]

The field market team is the investigator to stop the shenanigans'. Great products don't need too many sales people to sell great stuff. If you know you know.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

The field marketing teams are not there to sell Buffalo Trace bourbons, they are their to tease BT bourbons in exchange for vodka and fireball bulk purchases.

[@freshjmcfly17]

Honestly kinda love that I'm in Ohio where we have state control and ohlq is actually good yeah certain things you won't see but we have so much Weller come in that people export it to other states and we can get anything on trade very reasonably if I want a Weller 12 I just ask and an exporter will do it for 6 to 7 wsr I want a Stagg Jr 7 to 8 wsr depending on batch. I want btac my guy can get btac and with how we can get wsr at 25 bucks a bottle I'm still paying less at the store to get my trade stuff thani would to buy a bottle. I see everyone always say that state control liquor is bad but living here in Ohio and not having to deal with inducements and this drama with wholesalers I think it's much better. I even hear that Stagg Jr is hitting our stores this week.

[@freshjmcfly17]

Oh also in my state control Ohio I never pay one cent above MSRP if I'm at a liquor store. No hunting for a better price it's all the same no matter where I go we also have the ohlq website that tells you where bottles are in stock at so I don't have to go to the store every day I just look online and if something is there I run and get it.yeah competition is steep but so is it everywhere and I'm not getting ripped off

[@BourbonRealTalk]

There are definitely pros and cons to control states. Go read the comments from those in NC and you hear a different tone. Glad it is working out for you.

[@freshjmcfly17]

@@BourbonRealTalk oh literally confirmed getting Stagg Saturday only 3 bottles for retail at my local store but still definitely coming out.

[@mauida7746]

Welcome to the world of liquor.... been there as a producer.... left because of the disturbing rules... because big producers have ways of shutting you down . Both players are at fault of letting each other get away with to much

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Interesting take. Thank you for sharing.

[@randalwhite1806]

So basically I'll still never have a chance to buy Pappy...

[@BourbonRealTalk]

This likely won't affect availability. We are 15-23 years away from there being more inventory.

[@jeffreyking279]

You ain't missing much.

[@randalwhite1806]

I was being sarcastic guys. Saw a Pappy 23 this past weekend for $2900 and a Rye 13 for $2200. I'm sure the juice is good but there's no way to justify that price. Plenty of great options out there in the $100 price range.

[@YoJimBo851610]

Now it's not looking good for anyone....

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Agreed. None of this helps the consumer.

[@coydixon3005]

Very interesting...Please keep us informed with the law suit. Quiz Les later.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Will do

[@marklee9374]

I am friends with a local liquor store owner who worked for a distributor before buying the store. His response when I told him about the termination of RNDC-“Good.” So there is a local perspective. Also, your description sounds like Sazarac also has a claim for trade defamation which can be a serious claim. Overall, it sounds like Sazarac wants to be the aggressor and control the narrative. Sazarac terminated RNDC. Now they want to get their story out there as to why.

[@dougreitz]

Agree, first to get the story out tends to gain the most. People inherently will not question it and it could even be completely inaccurate. And thats what they are hedging their bet on.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

The trade defamation thing would likely go nowhere. It is hearsay and posturing in my opinion.

[@marklee9374]

Agree-it’s all posturing. Most of this is going nowhere. If Sazarac can produce retailers, or perhaps others, who will say RNDC employees said x, y, z, about Sazarac, the claim probably survives summary judgment. As I think we both said this is about staying ahead of the underlying issue.

[@scoobtoober2975]

When you sell a top level product with huge demand. And the lower tier brands in the same parent company are great too. It's hard for other companies to compete. I bet other parent companies and their brands were pushing and paying off the distributor to push their products instead. Then demand goes up even more when the distribution is limited even more, when the distributor probably holds the better brand back to inflate the price more then sells it at gouging prices. Or some other convoluted story can insue. The public stories are one version. The true or private ones are even better. The we the consumers get the short end. But to that end it can help the smaller good brands. Then the whole thing crashes down. Like in scotch land. Product quality has taken a huge hit there. I tend to buy bourbon from local places. Colorado is getting up there. I hope law's BiB 6 year is here to stay. Their 3 year is solid. I'm a sucker for 101. But if some ER 10 at retail is here, i'm in. Or 1792 at retail.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Wholesalers are generally unable to inflate pricing, so they have no incentive to try to create false demand, but other than that I am with you.

[@alexk3088]

Randy, I enjoy your show, so don't take what I say as pushback or any kind of snarkiness towards you and the channel. I make snarky remarks in the general direction of the industry. I do enjoy American whiskey history but as a customer I feel that the producers should clamor for my hard earned dollars. I will not clamor for their "rare" product or get into the minutia of lawsuits and disputes between them trying to read the tealeaves to see if the privilege of purchasing their magical product might be bestowed upon me. Lawyers are gonna be getting paid, that alone is enough for my bourbon appetite to diminish, haha.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

That is fair. I know that reporting on industry news is not my usual bag, but so many people are interested that I thought I would put it out there. More of the regular content is coming tomorrow. Does Celebrity Whiskey Suck....cheers!

[@alexk3088]

@@BourbonRealTalk I certainly didn't mean that you shouldn't cover it, I understand how KZbin works:) just stating how I feel:)

[@jeremyrich9307]

Pretty simple anytime you can knock out the middleman us the consumer win. The laws are outdated and unnecessary. Producers direct to retailers retailers move it on to the consumer very simple

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Producers don't have the resources for that, and retailers would have even less leverage dealing direct with the gigantic producers than they do with the wholesalers. I don't want or see it totally eliminating the second tier.

[@jeremyrich9307]

@@BourbonRealTalk I would say 10 years ago that was 100% reality but now with the way to direct ship there's really no reason why a producer couldn't direct ship to a reseller. As far as leverage basically your leverage is based on supply and demand your product is in demand you have all the leverage. Just my opinion.

[@andrewjeung7949]

RNDC sounds like they're having a tantrum. 🤣None of the failings are their responsibility?!?!? It was someone else's fault?!?! 🤔 And this is all regardless of the fact that RNDC signed the agreement. I've seen this movie. Not impressed. 🙄 Move along.😎

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Fair point. But if what they are saying is true it was never about making the new agreement work to begin with.

[@andrewjeung7949]

@@BourbonRealTalk and I too think there is politics in play. Who can flex the best.

[@shpfro]

Imagine we cut out the 3 tier system and go from distiller to store, you could cut prices in half. So much extra money needed to move a product that seems unnecessary.

[@Pablo-sz8xn]

Sounds great, but then the big alcohol makers could just strong arm the customers. Good luck starting a new brand when the big makers could either just strong arm you out of the middle, or cut you out enirely. At least the three-tier system marginally helps the little independents. Look at the craft beer industry, still dominated by InBev

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Wholesalers are indispensable for large producers. Only a few spirits companies in the world are large enough to handle their own local sales in distribution without the 3 tier system. The real change we need is direct to consumer shipping for small producers. It is nearly impossible to scale from small to medium sized in our current 3 tier system.

[@Lawnshrooms]

@@BourbonRealTalk I fully agree with the DTC concept. I've heard small wineries have found success in passing legislation to allow DTC; I'm hopeful that spirits and beer will follow suit.

[@RandyKildow]

Corporate pissing match...

[@BourbonRealTalk]

It seems bigger than that. They severed ties and they have been working together for a very long time.

[@georgebrozanic6977]

I find it hard to believe that RNDC would have to do special promotions to move Sazerac inventory. It’s gone as soon as it hits the shelves here.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Sazerac isn't just buffalo trace bourbon. The bulk of Sazerac sells are things like wheatley vodka and fireball.

[@martybarrett523]

Don’t know if this is a result of all this legal mumbo jumbo or just my luck, but my local liquor stores, Bevmo included, have had a noticeable increase in Buffalo Trace/Sazerac products.

[@earthsucks9555]

What state are you in?

[@martybarrett523]

Southern California

[@martybarrett523]

Bevmo had a case of Blantons last week and a case of Weller SR this week, both at MSRP. They very rarely have any BT products. My liquor store has almost all the Weller’s, Pappy 10,12,15 and most of the BTAC’s, at an increased price of course. They always have Buffalo Trace, 2 for $40.

[@earthsucks9555]

@@martybarrett523 damn dude You got the hook up over there Watching the pacific waves and drinking bourbon sounds like a good time to me

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I have heard reports that some of the early transition states were given allocations that were slated to go to other states to give the appearance that the change was going to fix supply issues. This is unconfirmed, but could explain why your supply has increased after the announcement.

[@WTAFnews]

Good luck with SGWS😂😂

[@BourbonRealTalk]

SGWS didn't get any of the Sazerac business except in Alaska.

[@alwaystherightanswer]

Team Sazerac! RNDC had many options to mend this partnership and live up to the expectations in their agreement with Sazerac...they failed to do so and are now covering their butts.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I see both sides.

[@outlander2878]

False

[@Andrew_mm]

Rndc and their employees are greedy.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Maybe, but a good wholesaler is invaluable when you are growing a brand.

[@hrbartender3079]

RNDC will likely go bankrupt. Probably a lot of embezzling going on at the top.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I don't think they were that dependent on Sazerac. They have been surviving off of less and less revenue from Sazerac for the last couple of years. They will be fine. I am worried there will be layoffs, but the sales reps I have talked to said they are going to make 20% less, but were happy to not have the headache.

[@evanedwards9104]

@@BourbonRealTalk more like 30-40%. Also keep in mind that the allocated products from that % will heavily factor into the other 60-70% since they use that as leverage to sell.

[@mattbayer3986]

As a bar owner, glad to hear RNDC lost Sazerac. Super unreliable after they took over Young’s. I hope Reyes does a better job.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

Time will tell.

[@RebeccaPaige]

@Bourbon Real Talk If you are aware of the current situation with him, what advice or words of encouragement would you give to @RealKevinNash?

[@BourbonRealTalk]

I had to look it up. I was not aware of the story. I will say I am unqualified to give advice, but human to human I think we can attempt to encourage each other. I know what it is like to have no hope of peace and happiness in the future. That is what suicidal people are facing. On the outside looking in the observe sees all the flaws in the lies one's brain tells them when they are in this mental state, but the statements outsiders make to encourage someone in this state seem hollow and do not resinate. The more you feel an obligation to stick around because others need you the more hopeless you feel because you start to think that you don't matter. Your suffering and struggle doesn't matter. Everyone else matters but you. The truth is that feeling of hopelessness is a lie. Convincing your mind of that when in this state is very difficult. You NEED a counselor. I see a counselor once a month whether I have something going on or not. You need to rely on those around you. Ask for help. This is difficult for men because there are those in your life who depend on you, and when you struggle it makes them feel vulnerable. Vulnerable people hurt those around them, and this can become a downward spiral. Despite the risk, you need to ask for support from everyone in your inner circle and figure out who you go to when the chips are down. When dark times come, try to imagine a time you overcame. Eventually your mind will start to accept the fact that life happens in cycle, that brighter days are around the bend, and hope starts to return. In the meantime, get help.

[@KeweenawPatriot]

This is meaningless to me and more than half the country. I'm in Michigan and it said it won't change anything here or a lot of other places. No need to watch a 20 mins video for that info.

[@BourbonRealTalk]

This separation and the lawsuit are signaling what might be the start of a change in 3 tier system laws, which would affect EVERYONE. You don't have to watch it, but I did put chapters in so you could skip around.

[@schtinerbock4570]

Lets Go Brandon! Yeah but what I hope for is that this is the first ripple of larger waves to come that will hopefully cause major disruptions in the lousy liquor distribution system.

[@blackxybone6357]

I dont even live in the US and this is still interesting to me