Sbc23 degree vs 18degree vs 13degree vs LS7

Comparing different heads

[@baby-sharkgto4902]

Tune in next week to see Trickflow GenX 260 cnc heads compared to the double hump smallblock head Sorry I couldn't resist 🤣 I'm glad smart guys like you actually take the time to make comparison videos. Thank you for helping us gearheads out.

[@lordpula1193]

I thought trickflow is no more?

[@mikesauer7775]

My buddies built 2 snorting 427+ small blocks AFR 245 heads. Required offset lifters and .150 offset rockers on at least 4 holes

[@tonkatoytruck]

That was an awesome video. I learned a lot in such a short period of time. I do have trouble getting numbers above .600" lift on some heads.

[@brandonseals6732]

Great explanation and content

[@stevewelborn8744]

I know you from Engine Masters. Great channel.

[@moodybluemotorsportsDwneKnos]

Still today many still use the 18* bowtie heads but we wander just how well today's heads compare power wise to the older 18* heads, there's not much info on the 25+ year old head but we still believe a well built set still gets the job done but we are always up for a challenge- can you please bring us info on this topic and why do some call the bowtie 363 hea#s brodix 18* heads? Thank u for your content as we love to learn about these subjects, thanks sir

[@DeuceDropper7]

Wow that ls7 backs up over 600....that's pretty eye opening. Great comparison video. Your dragon slayers are damn impressive for a standard valve spacing head.

[@indyrock8148]

The 18x doesn't get a lot of love, but they're $1900 pair assembled for solid roller. That's cheaper than most large cnc 23 degree heads. And you can grow them later.

[@wisekyle0800]

I'm with you on that, I'm looking at maybe using them and getting eric to port them possibly for my 407 sbc. Looking for a big upgrade while still keeping my rockers and lifters

[@jimmy_olds]

Great video comparing the different heads! Ever get your hands on any SB2 heads?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Yes but it’s been awhile. They were in the 420cfm range but they were small.

[@IronHorseGarage]

Great info!!!!

[@CLEEPER1]

I'd like those ls7 ported to see. Big gains from porting stock castings. Even better going after market ls7 castings

[@nitro1631]

From my experience from 23 degree to 18 was a good 100 hp gain i ran the sb 2 stuff as well currently running a f 1x on a 421 cu dart rs 18 degree its a bad boy we broke a few input shafts usually when we go into high gear got a lenco now but any way I would run the brodix the brotherton make a great set of heads lol Jeff got on me at the track for the dart heads I told him I couldn't afford his stuff lol great people though

[@keefespencer1173]

What is in your opinion the best set of SBC heads especially if you are going to use a power adder?

[@terrybosak8281]

So Eric , tell me if I have this correct. You've mention port swirl, a few times: I presume you are saying that volumetric efficiency increases exponentially, according to port swirl , and if so wouldn't a twisted runner increase this? Thanks Terry

[@kellyjones334]

Well explained. Thanks

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Thanks for watching.

[@SenorYuk]

Great video! Learning a bunch from your content. Would love to see you look over the AFR 195 Competition Eliminator. The advertised flow numbers are insane and Im wondering whether my 427 street build needs more.

[@Obshowersyndicate]

Yes

[@cfmechanic]

Wow those 13° look massive. I just got some dragon slayers 225 they were ok then I had to add valve seals on exhaust cuz of smoke, then they were fine, then I bent some valves and have now had them rebuilt and fully ported and wow it feels faster everywhere

[@shaadydog1]

any advantage to the RR heads and angle milling, or is there a general flow pickup by angle milling if accounted for with vj and port work?

[@robertweitlauf4653]

do you port heads? i have a set of AFR 345 bbc heads i need ported

[@shanerorko8076]

I wonder how those 13deg heads would look against some Higgins race heads SB2 heads.

[@red-doggracing5557]

Awesome video very good information !!

[@jonpaulschafer1871]

Just for the record the reason why the ls platform is so pushed in the media is the fact that the computer that the ls package comes with put your vehicle into a late model 1996 and later computer programming system which enables them to constantly monitor you wherever you drive your vehicle so it's all about a big brother is watching you format this article I read in the October 1995 Hot Rod Magazine stated the fact that 96 and later OBD2 systems or purely designed with the ability to have big brother watch you wherever you go so if you like that kind of Lifestyle more power to you I'm old school I like my privacy

[@Torquemonster440]

Great Video !! Super informative Thanks. 👍

[@jamest.5001]

I was thinking , I heard ppl possibly boring the lifter bores out to use larger diameter lifters like Chrysler or Ford, Chrysler being the largest I believe, being the lobes are wider than they must be, and even roller lifters have a good bit of space on each side of the roller, so couldn't the lifter bores, on each side of the intake ports be bored out possibly offset slightly, and install a offset bushing, possibly .040" on tge bore, and .045" -.060"+/-. To get .080"-.100" more port on each side of the of the pinch.. that's nearly 1/8" if the pushrods area is welded up, or machined for a precise clearance, say give it .020" with a . 050" wall at the pinch, while taking some of the divider that is going to be a large port also the valve spacing cam be moved, making room for some serious valves, and serious flow, and key the bushing to keep it aligned!! Maybe this can be done and more than I'm thinking, maybe it can be moved over .150"-.200" using a offset stuff rockers imagine larger diameter tappets, tgat are offset . 250" you would have all the space for a port , What I'd like to do is use a 1.500" longer valves , raise the bowl roof 1.400" "angle the deck about 2°-3° raise the port entry and cover rail about 2.250"-3.00" And do about the same to the exhaust ports, move the cover rail to the intake that should get a 1.50" valve flowing a bit more than a 1.650" 8n😮🎉😂S y it would require custom gasket, or machine fir o-rings, the port should allow the whole valve to be seen in the port, if all thatvis goingvto be done mays well ditch the Siamese port deal, make all the chambers the same, may require a specific cam if the valves end up in different orders, no heat build up in the center of the head, posdicly 300-350cc runners, and should habdle a 2.300 intake, and the exhaust probably be better wit 1.55" to prevent over scavenging crazy when MBE basically make this same head and intake!! Crazy rambling sorry!!

[@ldnwholesale8552]

Wild numbers, most are drag race heads. . The real world is n/a and less rpm. Road race, oval both dirt and bitumen Though lifting the ports and moving the pushrod is generally better for all applications and budgets. As ofcourse is the smaller chambers needing no dome LS heads? Yes they are good,,, if you can keep a headgasket in them. Well overhyped and the 18 or 13 deg make as much power and are a LOT more reliable. Bloody tin rockers with plain bearing fulcrums. Excellent for the street but an accident waiting to happen for real racing. And as you say they are very close to water!!

[@shadowopsairman1583]

No problem using MLS gaskets, LR4 at 146,000 no trouble. 862/706 heads that have the largest valve job without affecting the 61cc chamber size, ported

[@johnnybrigham8154]

The all pro can you send info on the 23 head thank you.

[@MRnicknitro919]

Great job Eric, all the heads are killer in there own way. I have used many heads in the past , mostly as cast, and ported. Most of my customers want the ease of using ready available headers, rockers etc. I have a few great head porters head on the east coast that make great power, names like Garrett, Wayne Skelly. I didnt see any Dart heads on your list. I have also in the passed talked to Chad Spier, did not see profiler head in your comparison either. What flow numbers that also make a big differents like mention is Mid and under curve Flow numbers.Why because you see them twice during a run, per shift, engine recovery thru RPM per shift. Would have loved to see the results of an ALL Pro head. MHO the best flowing 23 degree heads are AFR, ALLPRO, DART and the old Proline heads. Was disappointed with PROFILE HEADS , Although with Chad's version of them I give them another look.

[@TheProchargedmopar]

500th 👍 checking in. 😆

[@dclsxfactory7823]

So would you say the 18C would be a good Turbo boosted head or even NOS with the bigger exh valve and what looked like good flow #’s on the exh port?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I finished porting them in another video. I think they would be great for power adder.

[@ronnieyoung7510]

What would be a good intake for the head

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Ohhh jegs.. ok... I have always swore by summit

[@oneslows1376]

Great information. Have you ever flowed 13 degree or 10 degree all pro heads?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

No I haven't.

[@PhillyDee215]

Loads of info👍

[@100amps]

What is the L/D column in the flow chart?

[@zAvAvAz]

i am. shall you help me use these stock LS heads on my 377 c.i. GEN 1 small block chevy? or i could put them on a ford 351 windsor.

[@stevelooney6106]

eric a very good at explaining all the diffences in the heads..my hats off to you...you get all the calves in the shop yet !

[@juiced71]

I’m still Sbc some good info !

[@TPVPRO]

Same, You still need a motor big enough to even flow the heads. A lot of people over head the motor all the time and won't even see the benefit of the extra CFM.

[@juiced71]

@@TPVPRO 💯💯💯

[@RAMMBRUTE]

Hey buddy! Just discovered your channel! Nice job! May I suggest a cheap lapel mic for better audio? Gonna call you soon.

[@oldmateoldmate]

Any experience with the brodix -12 15 degree head. Weld tech cnc ported?

[@rogerowens5669]

Great video not not criticizing loved every bit of it but far too much information for your average Joe we design these heads for specific applications" who's your target audience?

[@morganpowell2999]

Where do you find references for that 18xap head, because I can’t find it anywhere.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I put it in some video but I don't remember the title.

[@edfromm6860]

I run 8s with brodix 18... but moving to mbe heads

[@RollingThunder85]

You have any heads for 460ci Ford street truck

[@williamfrolow2713]

How about some small block ford heads and procharger onfo

[@williamfrolow2713]

Info

[@jaredshoemaker9196]

What's the absolute best small block chevy cylinder head to use for drag racing, to make the most power and fastest E.T.'s? If money wasn't an issue.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Probably some billet head I have never seen. I would say the air strike from profiler if as cast.

[@GidDree]

What about the Canted valve heads🤔?

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Waittt... Is this an all check shop or something... Why...

[@f-bodyjon2189]

Thank you for your videos. All good information.

[@curtisanderson9984]

So the question becomes how much lift are you running. For those running more typical budget lifts in the low 600's, the LS is way better. For those running 800, the 13 is the way to go. Additionally, there is no expensive valve train parts when building the LS.

[@shadowopsairman1583]

Its about duration, too much duration with .500+ lift on ls flat top piston makes it an interference engine at some point, watch richard holdener

[@curtisanderson9984]

@@shadowopsairman1583 the LS is an interference engine. Not sure how it "becomes" one, it already is one.

[@notme810]

13 is pretty good, not a lot to do and it is in good shape.

[@marthamryglod291]

So most hp/$ is to build an LS rather than a 13° gen 1 because the LS already has better architecture?

[@MichaelJJohnson-iw7oh]

i wanted to find out wood you port the Brodix -18*degree and can I order them through you

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Yes I can order them and port them.

[@DSRE535]

What is that channel that has been milled into the exhaust side spring pocket area in the raised runner 23 degree brodix head? Is that for oil drain back or?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Yes

[@DSRE535]

@@WeingartnerRacing thank you!

[@lordpula1193]

So is Brodix the best right now over dart, rhs, etc etc. It seems most are having lots of brodix right now. Before it was dart and others

[@WeingartnerRacing]

RHS doesn't really exist anymore, Dart hardly puts out things anymore.

[@lordpula1193]

@@WeingartnerRacing I know crazy right everything going but didn't know they were almost out the game until recently. So then best overall brand that's left would be Brodix pretty much?

[@phillipstein9099]

A SBC head has an inherent flaw that afflicts them all and that's the siamese exhaust ports on the middle of the head that causes a hot spot. Plus you're comparing some expensive after market stuff to a pretty readily available factory stuff. Most of the SBC heads require special intakes and exhaust manifolds and special valvetrain comp as well which can quite expensive. I myself would spend my money on some good aftermarket LS heads and throw that SBC and SBF stuff where it belongs. In the past. But this is my humble opinion.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

The most expensive head there is the LS7 head. It’s $300 more than the 13degree sbc. It’s harder to find that LS7 head than any other in the comparison.

[@phillipstein9099]

MAST Motorsport makes a pretty good LS head that's readily available. Trickflows aren't bad out of the box and factory square port heads with a CNC port job flow some good # all using factory style valvetrain components

[@Thumper68]

@@phillipstein9099weird the fastest street cars in the country are running BBC from the past 😂

[@TTGTO288]

Spoken like a true Ford guy.

[@brandonhouston3683]

I think you're confused which is a sbc and which LS nothing your saying it makes sense

[@brianwiniarski4490]

Great video. When the LS7 came out it made me realize the new std was 300cfm @.400 and why the low lift to around .400 on all other heads sucked lol. They've always had killer .400 numbers in bone stock trim.

[@michaelk7572]

Hey Eric, nice comparison video. Wondering if you have as much experience with BB Chev heads comparisons. Would like to give you a ring if you have.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I port many bbc heads. When I get time I will do a video on them.

[@robtdougherty]

@@WeingartnerRacing - Cant wait!

[@22rockcrawler]

Thinking about running the profiler 285cc 13* on my 406.

[@bevinsracing]

Better step up to a 440+ ci unless you want that 406@ 9,000 rpm

[@22rockcrawler]

@@bevinsracing that's exactly what i want.

[@golgothapro]

Very interesting. I always wondered what all the "angled" head values were in reference to.

[@chickenfoundation9323]

What are your thoughts on the dart 18 degree heads for bbc?

[@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm]

shaft rockers are better ! = or ? at high speed ! so in all the super 383 cfm flowing head = sor my 427 small block stroker = is that what where shooting for ?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

I can’t understand what you are asking.

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Do you not do any ford work...

[@ToddWrightthedrummer]

New subscriber here.

[@ronnieellsworth9223]

Why are you using a LS head when it wont bolt on the small block..There is other heads than a Brodix.

[@basketballcory2]

Thank you

[@rogermatheny5512]

Chevy designed their v8 after a WW1 aviation engine. 90degree v8

[@kellyjones334]

What would be a good set of heads for a 496 looking for 6 to 650 hp ?

[@WeingartnerRacing]

AFR 305

[@kellyjones334]

@@WeingartnerRacing Where abouts are you located. I'm in TN.

[@daverr8163]

Great video! I like abc stuff .

[@brianvader3102]

Thank you Eric for the great video and explanations. I have been a sbc guy for a long time.I have run the AFR 245 head right out of the box with only modification being Titanium intake valves and incolnel exhaust valves. At Steve Morris Engines made 1680 HP with an F2 at 30 lbs of boost and car went high 7s 1/4 around 179mph 3400 lbs race weight. Could have run probably close to mid 7s but track and converter never aligned. Switched to an Brodix 18 degree clone head which I am not sure if if it is the same head as an 18C? Has a 2.20 intake valve and an opened up chamber with a claim of 4.10 cfm. With a 102mm turbo first outing car went a 4.76 at 161mph at just over 3000 lbs and not very good 60ft 1.30. Swapped it int a cookie cutter fox body this season so will see how it runs a few hundred pounds lighter but still working the bugs out since there is a bit of a learning curve from Procharger to Turbo. But from what testing I have done the Brodix 18 degree head shows some good potential.

[@zAvAvAz]

use a front spoiler or canards and try to stay on the ground :oP

[@narmale]

who cares what it flows.... need port velocity numbers with that flow!!!! HP is NOTHING without tq!

[@waynebollentin989]

Ive said this before in other videos. To many people get caught up in peak flow numbers. Also specially with cheaper heads it’s a big problem and why some get confused when they don’t make good power compared to a better head that may in some cases flow little less. Exhaust is also something over looked. People see a big number on Intake and that’s all they worry about. He had good information in this video but agree velocity is very important and really tells the truth about how well the head is going to perform. It’s why combination is everything.

[@narmale]

@@waynebollentin989 mmhmm, its why factory heads are factory heads(modern), they are fantastic on the street because of the 10s of thousands of hours on all sides, intake and exhaust, torque, throttle response and millage... I'll take a set of nailhead heads over a setup like the BOSS 302... those heads were just trash under 5k

[@waynebollentin989]

@@narmale If you thought I was referring to modern factory heads as cheap I wasn’t. Wasn’t even referring to a modern head.

[@narmale]

@@waynebollentin989 and i wasnt even referring to you saying that, i just picked factory heads as an example It'll be ok

[@waynebollentin989]

@@narmale lol

[@brianpuckett941]

What degree are the ls7 heads

[@WeingartnerRacing]

12degree

[@brianpuckett941]

Thanks

[@johnparrish9215]

No wonder the guys with smaller budgets are building LS3 engines.

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

@Ronald Reed it wont last long though.

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

its not because its cheap. its because its hyped.

[@infamousnova]

@Ronald Reed what are you bolting on for those numbers

[@bultacowally]

took Chevy SO long to get the valve angle right. 23 degrees is barbaric

[@lordpula1193]

You believe that best for this style

[@racerd9669]

Eric I loved the video, well done. But of all the heads you tested the LS is the only head that flows 300CFM @ .400 lift. That is the real bench mark of a head that will make great power ant any RPM. And the reason for that is because this is where the engine has the highest demand for air. .400 and .500 valve lift. I see you number is on your flow sheets, it would be fun to chat with you again. You will know who I am, we have met many times before.

[@frigglebiscuit7484]

port velocity plays a HUGE part of tq production....high cfm head doesnt mean high hp and tq.

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Gosh . It's all aluminum...

[@pokebass1]

At one part in the video, you say "not that anyone watching a small block Chevy video would pay attention to Ford.". I just have to say, I'm a Ford and Mopar man. I despise Chevrolets. I still enjoyed this video quite a bit.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

Hey I’m with you in my opinion the sbf has the baddest heads out there likeBrodix head hunters,sc1 , sc2, and Cleveland chi heads. I just don’t get enough customers bringing them in to do a video.

[@whiplashmachine]

@@WeingartnerRacing race street stocks, so Chevy has been my choice car and engine combo for that class. Plus spent four years in super late model while in shop that specialized in building engines for that class. So them 18° heads bring back so e good ole memories But I am a big Ford fan also. Drive my three carbed Fords regularly. Good video🍻

[@narmale]

@@WeingartnerRacing mmmmmm CHI kaase heads for a 454 clevor

[@mikemoore201]

In your hands I guarantee the ls7 head will readily go over 400 without hitting water. It doesn't take much work on them.

[@brdnsky6417]

You are to bias to be doing these comparisons. Where are the Dart heads, or Edelbrock's., or World Products. I know you have the knowledge to do it. It's just that you are to close to the Brodix Products. You should check out the Aussie's new Chevy small block head's (SB2H). First canted valves heads I have ever seen for the small block. I always wondered why couldn't someone have done this earlier. Ronnie.

[@WeingartnerRacing]

This wasn’t a comparison of brands it was a comparison of valve angle heads.

[@lordpula1193]

Who has the better heads out of the brands you named?

[@gruntperformance6284]

This was a bad explanation too much information that jumps around