SC 2 Terran BETTER THAN SC 1 Terran????

TY (T) vs SnOw (P) on Blitz Y.
Want to support ArtosisCasts? / artosis
I'm probably LIVE right now, check me out:
→Twitch: / artosis

[@monsieurpanda4451]

The fact that Starcraft 1 terran must face Snow is a big difficulty on itself.

[@nandinoo]

the final boss in hard mode

[@freshcutzwag]

it’s actually the bar exam

[@timtzs]

Light easily and regularly destroys Snow in most matches

[@freshcutzwag]

@@timtzs yes Light isnt not the terran race lol

[@liveandjaphappy]

I think ty underestimated carriers. He totally could’ve out numbered them with goliaths

[@benjamincarmona3703]

Yeah, the last minutes I was just thinking "why there arent 7 goliaths in queue the entire time!!". He knew Snow had a ton of carriers, he had already a ton of tanks, just spam goliaths. Ty totally knew how to focus fire carriers, you can see that at 22:28 , even when the reavers decimated most of his goliaths, he still managed to snipe 2 carriers straight up.

[@Deatheragenator]

I think it's because sc2 carries aren't as good.

[@Ziegfried82]

Once you see carriers out...especially vs someone like Snow...it's time to panic. He needed less tanks and way more goliaths. He also needed to keep the vessels alive for EMPs. He was doing amazing until the carriers..Snow was playing a bit sloppy.

[@conorcarrigan5543]

He also pushed into the carriers rather than splitting them. If he pushed top left, not only would it have been 2 bases dead because the carriers weren't there, but he also could have sent the rally through the middle AND 3 drop ship'd the main if the carriers rotated top left. I think he had a bit of a macro slip too though.

[@THAC0MANIC]

on a map like this? Meh wouldnt be a good deal as there is plunty of good hiding spots and its quick via air to get from one main base to another.

[@Dz1413]

Love the casts! Keep up the great work!

[@gordontubbs]

TY learned his lesson in this one. He won't get fooled by carriers again.

[@Aubee89]

Always loved watching TY in sc2! Cheering for him this ASL. Looking forward to you guys dropping the vods!!!

[@davidorawe3931]

I wish Artosis mentioned that TY won GSL vs Maru in a season he was a regular caster. TY is also THE BEST at interviews of any pro player in any esport.

[@tauicsicsics]

thanks for the video, Artosis. Any idea when ASL group D will be uploaded? I saw it on other channels , but I am waiting with your commentary. thank you

[@MondSemmel]

Tastosis mentioned in their cast of group C that the both of them are travelling this week, which would cause a bit of a delay.

[@tdigglez]

TY, a raptor, and he's Batman, also an alien, and a bear!

[@smashthestateX]

that dropship is huge

[@TheSuperappelflap]

absolute massive chonker of a dropship

[@beaustebbings6968]

Great looking game from TY. Really hoping for a good performance in ASL.

[@MrWutswrong]

Hey Artosis, what's going on with the ASL casts? I think we're already in like group F or G? I only see the Group C upload on the Afreeca channel. Not sure if you guys are still casting the rest of the tournament or not

[@graemebooth6685]

Think they said Arty and Tastless were away for a couple days but would cast them all in one day, so should be thick and fast once they start up again!

[@misterkefir]

They're probably waiting for it to get a bit closer to the ro16 group nomination ceremony which will happen on 11 III 2024

[@buneuocheng678]

What a tight game for the Terran player! He almost got Snow on this game. Great drops have been used. Great bases setting up and some defense lines as well. I just have a suggestion, usually after a 15 min late game, Protoss player would transfer the style to carriers. If that is the case, the most deadly kill is have to take down their star gate or minimize them ASAP. That way the carrier blow would not be like powerful. Goliaths sometimes could not kill them outright.

[@jakovmatosic4890]

Hey rt, I'd love to hear the date these games were played during the video

[@joebazooks]

after watching broadcasts of ASLs group d and group e from starcasttv, its clear now how much better ur commentary is. wish u n tasteless would hurry the hell up and post ur broadcasts. saving group f for u guys

[@abstractdaddy1384]

Artosis does good commentary by himself, but the Nyoken/Gypsy duo is better than the Artosis/Tasteless duo.

[@TheMykr0]

smoking stim-packs again eh?@@abstractdaddy1384

[@viro251]

I think that they understatement the power of ghosts.1x Ghost 25M 75G vs 1 carrier 350M 250G or maybe even 2 700M 500G lockdowns go brrrr.. . Arbiters, Reavers and Shuttles also. Snow would have to at least back or consider an attack with greater army. In the late game VS protoss you will always have barracks, acadamy Science facility. The only thing that you have to add is Covert ops and 1 upgrade so this kind of tech seems to be more rational than attack with 10x 0/0 cloacked wraiths 1500M 1000G.

[@FlymanMS]

Short answer is yes, but the long answer is “no”. Skill ceiling in SC1 is much higher. Such close game btw, nice turtling.

[@oakTree1234]

The quality of the vids are looking sharp, keep it up

[@marcelomellado1969]

I always wonder why i do not see EMP against carriers too often ? Is that move not a good attack

[@dj_koen1265]

it just lowers shields a bit and you will probably lose the vessel, carriers are very slippery also so there is a good chance the shields will just regen again if you want to try something unorthodox lockdowns are probably better but still not great due to how squishy ghosts are and lockdown having only 8 range

[@phoenixlich]

The biggest difference between Terran in BW and SC2 is that I'm not guaranteed to always lose channel points betting on Terran in SC2.

[@CarlosJimenez-pz1dq]

shut up sc2 zoomer

[@winzers]

what's with the zerg eggs on these maps?

[@Ch-thalassa]

Does splash dmg do friendly dmg in SC2? Maybe hes used it it not

[@freehatespeech6804]

Is Snow the overall best player right now? Discuss

[@jys365]

On his good day, he's unbeatable. I still fondly remember KCM finals last year where he beat 4 zergs in a row after his toss team lost 0-4 and carried his team to victory. There were some godlike plays in those matchups.

[@Fanelan053]

I never heard of baby so it's pretty neat to hear some new names and see one excellent game from them!!

[@erikalexander3085]

My personal take on Terran SC1 and 2 (spectator) is that even though Terrans can win and be powerful in SC1. They seem very very often forced to play defensive against Z and P and are expected to just hold scary pressure that in a mistake quickly can lead to a loss. While that pressure isn't a crippling investment for the other races. Now if this goes on fruitless T can start taking shares on the map, but since T in general is behind in bases keeping your key units alive is your next win condition. Early tanks, valks, and vessels killed will often stagnant the T like SC2 P losing robo units. On the other hand I feel like SC2 Terran has alot more of an even power curve to pressure if wanted the entire game instead of surviving the early to mid game low power to later hit the games highest overall power ceiling.

[@dj_koen1265]

ty had impressive showing here, i loved the dropship plays

[@TheRubsi]

great game, feels like snow was just showing his experience in this one, he heavily abused the map with both the carriers and upgraded reavers. the rematch would look very different.

[@Ziegfried82]

Snow actually didn't play as good as usual here. The rematch might look a lot worse for TY where the reavers cause too much dmg and Snow overwhelms, at least this game he managed to force Snow into carriers thanks to a dud scarab and some control errors on Snow's shuttle/reaver.

[@Xsifilad]

Do valks splash dmg the interceptors? Would they be effective at taking down carriers? And Im not asking if they are viable in pro scene, only if they are effective. I have never tried that in any of my SC games.

[@dj_koen1265]

it doesnt work at all, valks deal no damage to inteceptors

[@benjaminhuver1657]

That was epic! Thank you for the cast!

[@diegoalfonsosalgarsarmient8254]

It would have been amazing to see ty keepin up with the very effective dropship harassment.

[@Frightning]

This game shows how Goliaths don't really counter mass carrier, need wraiths imo for that. Can't abuse terrain and range to take on Wraiths piecemeal like you can against Goliaths.

[@Ziegfried82]

Nope, goliaths are basically throwing the game vs carriers at the top levels of play unless the terran is vastly ahead economically (and how often does THAT happen?!). Wraiths don't work against good protoss players either though, they will have 3+ obs and the wraiths will melt instantly. The only answer is battlecruisers with yamato and how the heck is a terran supposed to get that ready? But that is the counter to carriers for terran. Theoretically ghosts with lockdown but the same problem exists: good protoss will have 3+ obs and ghosts will melt before casting a single spell.

[@AgentXRifle]

Medic flare the obs and wraith cloak attack, seen it done

[@ivankuzin8388]

@@AgentXRifleThere is currently no terran player in the world who could do that to Snow. Everybody knows that Protoss>Terran, and in Snow we have a Protoss player who is so good that he won't let any Terran consistently win him.

[@Frightning]

@@Ziegfried82 Ignoring the cloak, Wraiths beat carriers cost for cost, but I suppose a wraith ball gets wrecked by psi storm, but we didn't see too many HTs this game, since the carriers are 250 gas each and HTs are another 150 each.

[@Lappmogel]

You snipe the obs and shoot the carriers. Then what? The wraiths get rekt by one storm or the carriers just fly over a canon (there are several at every nexus) and your wraiths can't do anything. Wraiths works great against low level toss apes on bgh or fastest. You build them in secret and then they go deep with only a few obs and you wreck them and hunt them down. Wouldn't work against snow on this map, he wouldnt let that happen. The only way to counter carriers is to push and kill their bases while they're building and then mass goliaths with a better eco.

[@Wysaw]

Very promising if he keeps at it, his apm was consistent 350-400

[@Ziegfried82]

He just needed to baby those vessels. A few EMPs would have been a tide turner, even a few D matrix helps a ton.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

Feels like carriers are a bit too good on this map. Can control the space in between the bases and force the terran to move his production out of his main because he cant defend it.

[@Kareas1115]

Would argue the same for Siege Tanks tho, so many narrow spaces to funnel units into an entrenched siege tank position

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@Kareas1115 But protoss doesnt have to push those narrow areas with ground units, and such a narrow path as between the two third bases, you can defend it with tanks but you cant really push with them, you could see when TY did it how often his tanks got stuck on the terrain and each other. You also obviously cant set up a concave. We will have to see more games but I feel like this map is protoss favored atm.

[@Ziegfried82]

Carriers are a bit too good, period. And Snow knows how to use them.

[@Szgerle]

That is, because terrans are supposed to punish a carrier switch with good scouting. There is a huge window of vulnerability, even on three stargates when the terran can just push in and end the game or cripple the protoss while carriers are uselessly floating around in small numbers, building interceptors. They need to hit the critical mass of 6-8 carriers with full interceptors to be able to do anything, or terran just moves up, sieges up on the rally point, kills the third and natural and just rallies down goliaths.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@Szgerle Its a bit harder on this map to push quickly though with the layout, you have to go around the narrow bridge path and go through a huge open area in the middle, the distance is more comparable to cross spawn on a 4 player map, which gives protoss more time.

[@TheBryceWade]

TY actually used 'Repair' like it was supposed to be used. Also had EMP, even though it wasn't used. Can't fathom why EMP isn't used in every single TvP when you can wipe shields from a Protoss army with one good hit.

[@Ziegfried82]

TY could have won that game, Snow wasn't playing as amazing as he usually does. But throwing away vessels like that is unacceptable, he threw away like 3 of em just letting em float over goons.

[@gehirndoper]

Shields are much weaker in SC1, and science vessels are more expensive than ghosts.

[@phoenixlich]

a solid emp on the clumped up carriers halving their health for goliath snipes would have flipped this game's outcome.

[@Lappmogel]

​@@phoenixlich its good but emp doesn't really halve their hp. They got 150 shield and twice as much hp and that hp also have 4 armor.

[@phoenixlich]

@@Lappmogel darn

[@Tmr2010]

Shine and zealot love watching them love their styles

[@justingagnier2871]

Remastered should have made valkyries put splash damge on interceptors. Carriers are way to strong in the game.

[@nickogrodowski2824]

Ayo.... Was this game on saiyanKCM's channel 4 days ago????

[@anonamos701]

its possible, they probably all grab the replays from cwal gg

[@abbfilmann3735]

Well, if you asked me which military force as a whole is stronger. Terran force from SC1 or SC2 The answer is obviously SC2, better, stronger units with more abilities and firepower

[@willhocks19]

Played this game when I was 9 years old and massing carriers was pretty much the only thing I knew how to do😅

[@somecooney5304]

Terran leaving their main's empty and undefended. I don't get it.

[@Ziegfried82]

If snow had seen that TY was dead a lot sooner.

[@deepzerocool]

After all that Terran actions for nothing …,

[@Stariy_Pirat]

I don't get why a Terran can't make some stealth to punish carriers.

[@Ziegfried82]

They can against lesser protoss players. But this wasn't a lesser player this is Snow.

[@christofincognito4530]

Carriers - always a reason to ragequit and uninstall the game

[@ivarkreuger3098]

Cant believe Snow didnt drop reavers topright in TYs main. Not single turret or mine😮

[@STORMCALLER.]

maaan, TY totally had this, and then just throws the towel. Can somebody please win a game against Snow??

[@ManCubuSSC]

Poor choice of title: TY formerly known as BaBy was legit pro at KeSPA days, youngest pro ever at that time, even went to ro8 of OSL where he lost long macro series vs. FlaSh. This kid can juggle a lot of things at once like casting GSL and at the same time winning it. Not surprised that he qualified for ASL, he's upcoming terran superstar.

[@RyanJ14115]

That was a close fucken game

[@iceee420]

Snow is a monster

[@john-ic9vj]

Usually yes. But carriers saved him this game

[@Ziegfried82]

@@john-ic9vj yeah he didn't play as perfect as usual, but there's always those carriers when the game drags out.

[@scottfuscomusic]

Carriers over reavers, great move

[@Fireshrine]

honestly, watching Snow PvT makes the match-up look actually unfair/imba sometimes. like, not terran whining bias imba or 51:49 imba, but like making me question if terran can even win imba - i guess maybe because i'm just a low-level "player" (mostly watch) who doesn't understand enough about what more terran can be doing, and when i watch other PvTs it doesn't feel so bad (no one but Snow consistently gives me this "PvT is imba" vibe) edit: if it matters im a protoss player and ik Snow can lose (at least in ASL or in other match-ups, lol), im just saying that like, that's the vibe he sometimes gives me

[@dj_koen1265]

carriers are just insane and completely flip the table in the matchup

[@dzstoyanov]

TY missed like 2 rotations of production. Basically didn’t build any units for the last 3 mins of the game.

[@chrismclaren9844]

TY's macro really broke down in the last few minutes. You can see he had the right idea building all those goliaths but he missed several rounds of goliaths at the end and it cost him the game.

[@Deck160ooo]

Haha wow! I thought Terran would win. Amazing carriers!

[@Zeratul150]

Hidden wraiths could help to snipe carriers

[@stevehernandez8897]

I just want Goliath on my starcraft 2 build with no MoD. 😢

[@TheMykr0]

Maybe SC2 makes you a better rounded RTS player after all

[@cl8804]

impressive shit, wow

[@Figgy20000]

I wish Starcraft 2 carriers weren't the worst unit in the entire game except maybe Protoss other capital ship, the Tempest. Seriously

[@blacklight4720]

Well that was lame. Protoss just built critical mass of carriers and won.

[@elessarbre]

Of course, SC2 is 1 more than SC1, therefore better.

[@TagaBearClaw]

ggs

[@SharpwithanE]

For the algo

[@MrJFBro]

Great game. :-)

[@romantroshkin3142]

ghost against carriers

[@benjamincarmona3703]

They are way too squishy for their cost. And Protoss always have observers, so actually landing the lockdowns is not reliable enough

[@Ziegfried82]

It does not work. The ghosts are too flimsy and the carriers can kill em all before they get a lockdown off. It might work against a C rank protoss though who doesn't bring observers along.

[@bOstik210]

Always such a lame way for the game to end. One player masses carriers and thats it

[@BipX39]

That was a great game!!

[@mrquickey3731]

man. This was such an unnecessary tap out. I've seen worse games to come back. Tbh if he was about to build 10 turrets on that left side base it could've been all right

[@philliplam2704]

Even the sc2 pros know sc1 is wayyyy better 😂 they just can’t micro good enough

[@GraveUypo]

starcraft 1 kinda sucks. it's a bit like unreal tournament. it was perfect for its time, but didn't really age well. aoe2 aged much more gracefully.

[@dj_koen1265]

nah sc1 aged great, it has the most depth and the highest skill ceiling of any rts game, without a balance patch during its 26 year lifespan the meta is still evolving in myriad ways, the music is still top tier, the sprites still look amazing aoe2 is a great game but its no scbw

[@karpai5427]

No. Wraiths and Firebats in Starcraft 2 are weak. Therefore Starcraft 2 Terran is weak.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

kek

[@radattk3145]

who cares. sc2 is a turd

[@Ziegfried82]

This is true. Not as big a turd as AoE4 but a turd nonetheless.

[@joelb1299]

TY got spanked and sent back to SC2.

[@ivankuzin8388]

These days Snow can spank pretty much any terran, TY was all right - he made Snow go Carriers, which is always a last resort for protoss players :D

[@ManCubuSSC]

You realise TY aka formerly known as BaBy was a legit pro back then on KeSPA days and he even went to ro8 OSL where barely lost to FlaSh.

[@joelb1299]

@@ManCubuSSC And then he went to SC2 and became bad at SC1.

[@ManCubuSSC]

@@joelb1299 Do you use logic while thinking? How he could become good or bad in SC1 if he didn't play it but played SC2 for a decade? He cameback from military and played SC2, only very recently he started playing SC1 and he already qualified for ASL which is already very impressive (spoilers alert) and eliminated Jaedong. Are you hating just because you want to hate? Go on...

[@joelb1299]

@@ManCubuSSCAll you had to do was watch this video and see how bad he played. How is that for logic?

[@RyanJ14115]

If TY beats snow I'm gonna shit my pants and make my wife clean it 🤪

[@thecurbdog123]

Good old imbalanced broodwar. Terran player outplays protoss from start to finish in every metric. Still loses. Game is fundamentally broken

[@florianschulz3027]

which is why terran has the most asl wins, and protoss the least :P

[@leeva93]

Outplayed? It was 5 bases Vs 5 bases lol. TY won a few skirmishes, took a nexus but never outplayed. TY couldn’t even push up the left side expo.

[@thecurbdog123]

@@florianschulz3027 when you remove flash from the equation terran is dead last. Zerg is first second is protoss. Learn your facts noob.

[@Ziegfried82]

@@thecurbdog123 yeah the greatest RTS player of all time is the only reason Terran has so many ASL wins. You're correct about that...without Flash terran would not have won many ASL championships at all. Carriers are ridiculously OP vs Terran everybody knows it. Ghosts needed some massive buffs but never got any. Even Scouts got some cost reduction lol.

[@thecurbdog123]

@Ziegfried82 correct, and everyone seems to misunderstand that when the korean pro's told blizzard not to do any more balance patches. It's wasn't because they thought it didn't need it. They told blizzard to leave it alone, because they knew blizzard would do 1 patch and walk off. They knew blizzard didn't actually give a shit

[@ApolloCondor]

Ty isn’t very good.. the top terrans would’ve seen the carriers and reacted much better. Why continue drops?? Start the wraiths noob.

[@TheSuperappelflap]

The irony of calling a professional player who has been playing for over a decade a noob...you know what that word means right?

[@ApolloCondor]

@@TheSuperappelflap there are levels still at the pro level. And with that said he isn’t very good compared to the other elites..

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@ApolloCondor yeah of course not he just came back to brood war after playing sc2 for years and then going to the military service. he was a caster for a while as well. what do you expect?

[@ApolloCondor]

@@TheSuperappelflap I expect him to be “not that good”.. which you just basically agreed

[@TheSuperappelflap]

@@ApolloCondor hes god enough to get mmr similar to pros who have been active for the past several years and play long games against them, i would call that very good actually.