SC2 PATCH UPDATE !!!

[@debostahn]

Motherships get abducted so much they should be called Princess Peach ships

[@billiondollardong]

Amber Alert Ships

[@adamclay9915]

imagine the donos

[@akosszilagyi2656]

It's because they LOVED seeing it get destroyed. All this time, Protoss was there to be the punching bag. That's what the ideal Starcraft game looked like in their minds. Zerg overrunning Protoss, swarming over their expensive stuff, tearing down all their spaceships and armies, like an unstoppable wave. Seeing Zerg eradicating the most expensive unit in the game in the blink of an eye over and over again probably gave them the greatest satisfaction imaginable. So they made it happen.

[@johankustonen5329]

There's a solid reason for this. That being an army cloaked by a mothership absolutely destroys any army attempting to attack INTO it. Especially if you don't have long-range anti-air like vikings or tempests. Funnily enough zerg has terrible anti-air units in terms of range. They'd have to get nearly on top of the mothership to be able to shoot it. Weird how that would always end up heavily favoring the mothership in ZvP battles, eh? The only tool to somehow take out a mothership with reasonable losses for the zerg is currently abduct - and even with the abduct if the protoss uses this time to jump on the zerg army it will usually still take more losses than the 'toss.

[@affensteiner4721]

That's fucking hilarious. 😂

[@basil8940]

Hydralisk 'Dash' should be called Acquiescence Concertina Adreno-Undulator.

[@R0binah00d]

Not long enough, Add like 6 more of those fancy words and you may be onto something.

[@gianfrancodiaz6486]

Hire this guy.

[@markgoggin4776]

😂

[@codyestes6596]

Sweet Jesus they FINALLY made the mothership un-abductable

[@XDezibellX]

Ikr it was only pointed out that this needed to be done as soon as the viper released. 10 years later it FINALLY happened.

[@YaraUwU]

14:10 "zergs being less reliant on queens" nah were just as reliant as before it just costs more lol.

[@oOOoOphidian]

It's not like they gave zerg tier 1 hydra or buffed roaches, zerg still relies heavily on queens to defend early. At most people may now build spores a bit more often and a few less queens in ZvP and that's the extent of the change aside from zerg having fewer resources.

[@rmachado1987]

I mean, do zergs have other option? Queens do inject, transfuse, creep spread AND are the only early aa.

[@EncryptedLiberty]

If they want hydras to be anti-air, then they need to make hydras anti-air units. I say +1 range vs. air to hydras and you have a case for hydras being anti-air over queens.

[@RancorSnp]

Well I'm hearing Elazer has been playing all around making use of cheaper hatches and avoiding making queens as much as possible

[@oOOoOphidian]

@RancorSnp yes for production that's fine but the issue is defense early, a hatch doesn't defend hellions or oracles or banshees

[@AndreaDelRiva]

Ultra nerf is totally wrong. Its speed was buffed on previous patches right because Terran bio MM would keep kiting Ultras forever. And so, Ultra ending up on just die in the attempt to chase the target. Like Artosis said "never connect". Melee units needs to be faster than ranged ones.

[@artomdidinchuk9580]

Ultras seem to be doing just fine in brood war. This is totally ignoring that zerglings exist

[@CheezitNinja]

Bio can't kite forever. The ultras match the movespeed of stim now meaning if they stutter step, the ultra just gets closer. Either the bio commits to fighting the ultras or they have to run, assuming no fungals or lings encircling them. The PTR games I've seen cast with the balance patch prior to this it seems reasonable.

[@sebastianahrens2385]

@@CheezitNinja The Ultras get slowed by the Marauders, don't they? Not sure if they'll connect

[@CheezitNinja]

@@sebastianahrens2385 They don't. Ultras are massive units, and concussive rounds don't effect massive.

[@sebastianahrens2385]

@@CheezitNinja Oh I see! Haven't played in years and wasn't sure I remembered right.

[@mauriciorossi8477]

Can't wait for them to change their minds again so I can watch 30 videos 1 from each creator.

[@Keith-sj3hd]

The objectively correct name for a temporary hydralisk speed boost is "slither"

[@dshlango]

When im ahead and i really wanna lose i'll make These new ultras

[@pondracek]

Would you rather they nerfed something good instead?

[@JayBProjects]

One minor thing to shoot the marines/mauraders need to stutter step. So they stop momentarily and the ultra catches up. And once caught up you can't out run the ultra. So for all but the very best I'm thinking it will be either run away or fight and get gobbled up similar to before

[@zergu-yf3gd]

@@pondracekrather they didn't nerf all zerg t3, as compensation for +1 supply on ghost, it's still gonna demolish all zerg t3 so hard that you can't even make any.

[@Aiur]

Arty saves the Protoss race

[@fingiess]

gave me chills honestly

[@L3monsta]

Wasn't exactly Arty. Literally every streamer, commentator and 85% of reddit was complaining about how the patch was unfair to Protoss

[@Avrorabg]

@@L3monsta pig - the piggy boy falier pro player epic failier comentator was trying for week to hype the first changes and defend the protoss so called - good changes- i gave him some food that little snake and now he started to talk a bit different after the piggy boy saw we protosses are done being focked every time with nerves. 2 plus years no toss race can win a single tournament.

[@carlosr6462]

how?

[@halqthedarktemplar]

No one cares about Arty's opinions about SC2

[@pondracek]

Not only will the ultra never be able to chase down marines and marauders, it'll be an even bigger sitting duck for snipe and does absolutely nothing about the fact that ultra attack speed meant they weren't able to hit a moving marine or marauder even unstimmed before, as they'd be out of range. Frankly, I don't really mind. Better nerf the joke unit that nobody uses than another nerf to something zergs actually use to win.

[@rapidwaterwolf1]

Would be cool to see zerg have a late game option against terran though, since serral and dark got all of them nerfed to oblivion. Like the only way zerg was winning that matchup late game after infesters got nerfed 5 times was to either do the dumb broodlords attack their own broodlings strat that dark came up with (now useless), or to get the most insane infester ambush that wouldnt even be possible if terrans wouldnt rather shoot themselves in the foot than build a raven (and they also nerfed infesters twice after that, making them easier to see and take longer to unburrow).

[@Invicta117]

So glad the Ghosts got nerfed. Was sick and tired of watching Clem build 40 ghosts and turtling until Zerg ran out of money in the late game. Just a super boring meta to watch. But whoever decided that Ultras being slower is going to make Terran braver on the map is an idiot or they're just not paying attention. Terrans did not choose to move out on the map because they were SCARED of the Zerg army. That has never been the case. Terrans didn't move on the map because it was just a better way to ensure victory. Terran units as they exist now are heavily defensively focused. If your units are better on defense than they are on offense, then why take risks at all? Why not build a nice four-five base castle and watch as Zerg/Protoss just ram 20,000 minerals into a brick wall of planetaries, liberators, siege tanks and ghosts. If you CAN do that, why WOULDN'T you?!?!?! The focus should not be to make zerg weaker so Terran is encouraged to push out of their castle. The focus should be to discourage Terran from building the castle in the FIRST PLACE. This is really not that complicated.

[@davehollis5816]

It is a great injustice that I cannot upvote you more than once

[@Mathos93]

make Planetary cost supply

[@Garviel_Loken.]

​@@Mathos93 bad idea 😂

[@czarkusa2018]

Next you'll tell me marines shouldn't be able to kill an Immortal.

[@Invicta117]

@ Well like how many marines 😂😂😂

[@SpartanEagle7]

I love the mothership change so much. It just felt so wrong that a unit you can only have one of gets hard countered by a single yoink. It just feels right now, if it ends up being too powerful I hope they nerf the health and abilities rather than reverting it

[@archniki_]

Nah you never saw it from another side When corrutpors all die flying to mama and there is nothing you can do

[@Zraknul]

@@archniki_ Why are your corruptors all dying? What's your army doing?

[@Gid-J]

Ultras aren't even winning games, That change is so out of left field

[@Gid-J]

Ultra needs movespeed back. They will be unbuildable

[@novakat1]

I did always found it weird seeing this Protoss super carrier get rag doll pulled across the screen by a bug a tenth of its size.

[@user-nh2bf4to7g]

I find it weird that only Protoss have a hero unit. If you're giving Toss a Mothership, give Zerg a Leviathan. Not sure what a good Terran hero unit would be though.

[@novakat1]

@user-nh2bf4to7g In pre release they basically introduced the Odin in multi-player before changed it to the thor

[@hellowill]

@@user-nh2bf4to7g yeah proper fix would be removing Mothership and adding another support unit like SC1 arbiter.

[@zergu-yf3gd]

@@hellowill that would be cool, but no arbiter built from nexus for the love of god.

[@enriquegarciacota3914]

The bugs are actually quite big

[@gavinscott6872]

Biased Zerg player, but why are we making Terran’s mid game bio army better against Zerg late game ultras. The whole point of teching into more advanced armies is to have an advantage against early and mid game armies

[@TheFirstCyberNinja]

Because the council is Terran biased and don't want to stop building their super efficient MMM especially now that the ghost got nerfed? or something like that idk, I don't play this game.

[@bastooo3]

Are you not one of them zergs that rush Ultras lately? I had a longer break and did well against zerg. Now the tech switch happens so fast my bio and bases get stomped without a chance to adapt. 11 Minutes is not exactly late game right? Or is it in these fast living times? Also begs the question if hydras/lurkers and ultras are too cheap..

[@enochianwolf]

@bastooo3 ultras should cost 300 300 each and hydras should be ground attack only, lurkers should not burrow. This is best balance to ensure Terran victory

[@enriquegarciacota3914]

@@enochianwolfno, they just need to be “comfortable”

[@CloudianMH]

​@@bastooo3me thinks you play at half speed or something.

[@mustard9933]

There is a problem with zerg units being balanced around having increased move speed on creep. How can you encourage active playstyles when zerg are naturally incentivized to fight within their territory?

[@PeekABeeGaming]

well, isn't that why overlords vomit onto the ground?

[@qcdoomqc]

@@PeekABeeGamingthat is very niche for so many reasons, tho. Agree with OP

[@davehollis5816]

BW is considered super balanced and there's no creep movement mechanic at all. Spitting facts.

[@Fissiccisst1]

Ultralisks were already pretty useless, possibly the worst T3 unit in the game, doubly so on Zerg, and they nerf it harder against the only unit its supposed to perform well against? Wild

[@AB-xo3pl]

It does seem weird. The tempest is a worse T3 unit though, now with 1 less range.

[@enriquegarciacota3914]

@@AB-xo3plit flies, it attacks air and ground, and it’s ranged. Ultra is just worse. The way to answer it is: would you switch? Protoss gets ultras and Zerg gets the half moons.

[@gerkan2052]

@@Fissiccisst1 ultras literally have no counter by T unless u have ghosts. With their pathing fixed theyll be better than before

[@xChimkin]

just keep spamming mutas and hydras i guess

[@enriquegarciacota3914]

“You need melee units to be able to catch ranged units” damn right

[@AlCool209]

Mothership has needed abduct immunity since it was first added, and people were asking for it that long ago too. Crazy that it took this long

[@sanaebeast4485]

I think the change coming out now due to the cloaking field is a spell instead passive ability anymore. With the spell cooldown, mothership acts like a higher-hp carrier with short range but can only build one. It will be quite stupid if it can still be abducted due to the highest cost. By the way, it's still ridiculous that MS can be abducted even it has the passive cloaking field as P can only build one instead several like arbiters.

[@Zraknul]

It should have been immune from the start or replaced in beta.

[@mrdoerp]

Can we still get a straight protoss buff so not every major final is zvz or zvt like in the past ~7 years? Thanks

[@qcdoomqc]

I mean, these are buffs … stalkers build faster, mothership un-aductable and less HP on lurkers so you only need 2 novas instead of 3. This is pretty huge actually lol.

[@mrdoerp]

@qcdoomqc lul

[@user-nh2bf4to7g]

Never going to happen unless someone mugs Hero and takes away his F2 key, or subtribe talks to Maxpax's mom and persuades her that her baby totally can make a living playing video games in offline tournaments.

[@2639theboss]

​@@user-nh2bf4to7g So when Dark wins a world championship with F2 its all good though right? Or is it just when Protoss gets eighth place that with F2 that we care?

[@mrdoerp]

@@user-nh2bf4to7g Funny how you make it sound like Hero cant micro. Maxpax cant beat Clem or Serral consistently even online. We literally had now 7-8 years of ~85% of all big tournaments being won by z or t, at which point do you go "maybe its not that terran and z have just better players, maybe protoss at the highest level is too weak"?

[@gerkan2052]

So happy to finally have a Cyclone that actually kills stuff

[@d4slaimless]

Seems a bit too strong. Was one of the reasons it was nerfed, and now it is back. All that kiting shit was soo annoying and it is going to be back again. Just watched Harstem and Clem playing. Obviously Clem is super strong, but still it just looks stupid how much damage just one cyclone can do.

[@Straddllw]

I’m super happy Mothership cannot be yanked now. It’s always such a let down that it can be shut down so hard that no one ever builds it. I’m sure all the zergs will cry about not being able to kill it anymore but seriously, either give us a true hero mothership like this or delete it from the game and just let is have arbiters with permanent invis. It feels like protoss have less end game tools than brood war.

[@aronbuch4275]

but protoss WAS building the mothership in the lategame. on top of that, how the fuck are you ever supposed to engage a lategame deathball protoss army now as zerg? it outranges you, outdamages you, and now you cant abduct the unit that makes the entire army invisible either?

[@oOOoOphidian]

Mothership was already the strongest unit in late game pvz and now it's even more powerful in a deathball. This is a terrible change in an otherwise great patch

[@hentaidude666]

​@@aronbuch4275surround it or attack with your second maxed out army. And if you dont have those, then you didnt zerg enough

[@lifenote1943]

@@aronbuch4275 Like zergs always have, A move.

[@eleos11]

Stalker buff isn’t enough.

[@EGDekker]

Dash should be a different, equally simple phrase. I personally subscribe to “Lunge”. Feels more alien. Update: nailed it.

[@danfoote882]

I vote Surge!

[@phoenixlich]

Thrust (onward)! Plow (forward)!

[@shetlandapache949]

Sprint

[@debostahn]

Hump

[@petercrocco5461]

Zerg blink.

[@qcdoomqc]

Agreed with some other commenter’s take regarding zerg… Z units movement being balanced around creep inherently makes them a turtling race… if you are so much stronger in your own base, what does that tell the player? Stay defensive until you have a better economy. Zerg will always have that playstyle lol

[@Psychoveliatonet]

Good to see your thoughts on the changes!

[@RMJ1984]

I just don't get why Blizzard cannot fathom the most simple of concepts. That a melee units always has to move faster than a range unit. A melee unit can only do damage if they connect, they have almost zero micro potentiale compared to ranged unit.

[@bowbay]

Because Blizzard isn't doing the changes, pros are. Terran council bias

[@gavinscott6872]

It’s interesting watching artosis’s video right after watching Harstem’s. 2 Protoss players with similar but also very different opinions on some of the changes.

[@totall4579]

Raging manchild who doesnt play and professional ladder troll. Wow great people to follow.

[@psistorm_adastra]

Harstem opinionated the cyclone received a buff, which is correct its got 15 lock on range, not possible to escape without blink

[@zergu-yf3gd]

@@psistorm_adastra but at least it's an investment for terran to get one early. the whole poiint is new cyclone just invalidates stargate openers and adept scouting for basically free.

[@gavinscott6872]

@@totall4579 rage bait

[@totall4579]

@@gavinscott6872 his entire shtick is that, yes

[@renzokuken1227]

Ultras need charge upgrade like zealots that can activate like stalker blink. Its a melee tier 3 unit ...

[@enochianwolf]

Serral wins tournaments so every Zerg must suffer. Imagine Terran having a tier 3 unit that is completely useless in every possible situation.

[@hentaidude666]

​@@enochianwolfbut the ultra isnt useless, its just not an a move win like lings?

[@marcelgabrielcilidariu6813]

That would remove their speed research tho, which brings a question I've seen before, would protoss prefer speedlots like in broodwar over chargelots? Think I'd rather have more responsive ultras than charge ultras?

[@jonsolo32]

They used to have the “Bash” ability. Bonus damage vs buildings. They should have that again.

[@SenyiKimmo]

BURROW CHARGE LET'S GO

[@TheFIRESTARX]

That stalker build time change is going to do absolutely nothing

[@zergu-yf3gd]

helps vs proxy reaper which is nice.

[@TheFIRESTARX]

@@zergu-yf3gd I shoulda hedged my bet and said "very little" cuz yeah there are a few edge cases. But I really just want a straight up buff to a core unit. Every unit feels so lame.

[@cameronnielsen6483]

Just basic things like melee unit speed are so common sense. Insane that they are still messing with foundational things like this.

[@davehollis5816]

Herp derp terran tier 1 infantry should counter everything anyone can ever make including things that should counter them. Zerg should not have an answer to marines they should just type GG. That is called "balance."

[@Zraknul]

If only there was a unit that could pick them up and fly them away while healing. Maybe include something about evacuation in the name. It's a shame zerg can't evolve the ability to run faster than the average every day terran infantry can run in formation.

[@kbforme]

Dirk Nibbler approves of the changes for the most part. He's quite honestly fine with any changes as long as we don't get anymore 2+ hour ZvZ matches.

[@erikbamboo4482]

Can they just make the Cyclone a normal unit already? Take out the dumb auto target and just give them a good attack animation to be stutter stepped like marines

[@llamadelreyii3369]

Yeah, make then like the Red Alert 2 basic IFV, fast not so hard hitting but very hard to catch with excellent hit and run micro

[@RonanLyleMusic]

you just answered your own question. terran already has marines for that, why would they make a clone of the best unit in the game just a mechanical version? Terran is obsessed with the idea that you should be able to play 'mech' or'bio' with no differences or weaknesses. If the cyclone was just BIG MARINE then why would anyone ever play bio?

[@erikbamboo4482]

@@RonanLyleMusic By what you said the goliath is just a mech marine in sc1, wasn't a problem in that game it wouldn't be in sc2. I didn't say anything about differences or weaknesses between bio/mech, but I do believe terran should be able to play both of their only 2 available strats yes. And mech can use stim or heal from medivacs? IDK how just replacing cyclones with sc1 goliaths for example "would KILL BIO UNPLAYABLE!@!1". Mine was just a random example that would be better than current cyclones. You can use the other guy who replied below me to change cyclones, or you can ask a 5 year old what they should do and it would probably fit better in an RTS and SC2 than any version of the cyclone has so far. By how you defend a terrible unit design like the cyclone you probably wear a baneling t-shirt. Please don't reply to me with your nonsense if you want stupid units go play stormgate.

[@RonanLyleMusic]

@erikbamboo4482 wild, presumptive and projected reply dude jesus, I dont even play the game, and sc1 and sc2 are different games BTW:) go outside

[@erikbamboo4482]

@@RonanLyleMusic No presumptive would be you thinking I was complaining that bio and mech should have no weaknesses, when I clearly said that cyclones should function like a real RTS unit. sc1 and sc2 yes are different games, one of them being a SEQUEL TO THE OTHER AS IN "TWO" If you don't even play the games why are talking about unit design you've never experienced playing with or against? Why are you making up an issue of mech vs bio that nobody brought up? What exactly was I projecting? Or are you just making up stuff again? And I get enough of idiots online, I don't want to go outside and risk running into you in your baneling t-shirt eating crayons in the park.

[@fraginatrix]

"Ok guys we get it, we fucked up" : The Patch Notes. "But we're still not actually BUFFING Protoss, just taking away slightly less from them overall" : Also The Patch Notes XD

[@JorgenVonStein]

They need to think one level deeper when they make the balance changes. Not just what the changes will enable players to do, but also what their opponents will likely do to exploit the changes. #starving_ultralisk

[@johnnyk617]

Damn I really liked the blue flame getting upgraded, but I understand

[@alwinkuk2308]

Don’t marauders just slow ultras so they can be kited forever?

[@zergu-yf3gd]

they have frenzied which is immunity to snare among other things

[@bastooo3]

As a noob Diamond I am happy that the ultra gets a little nerf. Since I returned, all the zergs lately switch from hydra ling to ultra after like 10 minutes. I can't switch my tech that fast and my bio literally gets stomped by Hydra Ultra too many times 😂 everything else really doesn't matter to me, good to see some changes so the game doesn't get too stale.

[@slykeren8371]

Lol? The same thing that beat ling hydra beat hydra ultra

[@romeoporkka3612]

Dash name could be changed to Slither or something like that.

[@orepoutanes]

So ultras being slower will just get sniped the moment they think they move towards the enemy, nice!

[@Drachnon]

I really want the ultra to see more play. For some reason the balance council just doesn't want to commit to making them scary or even useful.

[@aliasalbatross700]

Colour me surprised, in all the long years I've played and followed Sc2, this is the first time I've seen a patch that only consists of moves I like. I'm one of those guys that definitively has been harsch on he balance council but with this they've won me over, all of the changes made seem pretty well thought out. Nice! Hope this is the beginning of a beautiful trend, who knows where sc2 might end up then.

[@codytravers]

3 seconds faster to build Stalkers from Gateways. What a game changer LMAO

[@PeekABeeGaming]

regarding the ultra change - perhaps they want you to rely on fungal to slow stuff down to connect.

[@silith7027]

Time to bring the fungal root back then.

[@dimitriuss]

So your relying on the terran sucking. Classic sc2 balance, if terran micros they win

[@DarkMaster2522]

it shouldn’t be terran makes bio and u have to manage there totally should be units that shut down certain playstyles thats how counters work

[@qcdoomqc]

@@dimitriussnot exactly. Ultras are a unit that you field to close a game in which you have advantage. You are not supposed to run around the map after marines, you swarm bases with a bunch of upgraded ultras in the mix. With ghosts costing 3 supply, they need to see how that plays out imo. 20 ghosts will now be 60 supply instead of 40, that is a huge change to late game army composition.

[@davehollis5816]

Yeah too bad infestors have 0 energy permanently while within 15 miles of a terran army

[@soju69jinro]

ghost's snipe needs to be nerfed... how can 5 snipes insta-kill ultralisks... If a viper can abduct a mothership, the vipers should end up being pulled by the mothership instead... i think the change is needed, after almost 9 years since LotV was released. although it would be great if they brought back the mothership core and nexus didnt have all that skill, only the m.ship did...

[@Caipi2070]

so interesting how 2 different protoss players can have completely different opinions on the mothership abduct change (harstem being the other one)

[@phoenixlich]

Zerg buffs are so HYPE! How about give Ultralisk Dash as well so they can close the distance with stimmed marines? having more than one unit use dash would make the upgrade feel better to research too.

[@pondracek]

It actually doesn't solve the problem. Ultra attacks are so slow that they can't actually hit a stimmed marine either way before it moves out of range. You need them to be fungaled or pinned by Zerglings or map terrain (and normally the map terrain pins the ultra).

[@phoenixlich]

@@pondracek i'm not sure that part is a problem honestly, there should be a reward to micro. low mmr players aren't gonna be able to react and move their dude while constantly reapplying stim like high mmr players can and even that requires focusing your attention which sometimes they split their attention too much as well so it means making choices about where to focus your attention: saving a group of marines or macro back at base or even your counter attack drop ship play. it would just swing the pendulum too far in the other direction if Ultras ALWAYS ran away with an engagement just for closing the distance.

[@pondracek]

@@phoenixlich How many t3 units from the other races require the enemy to be surrounded, pinned, and spells to be cast (blinding cloud) just to be able to trade well? The ultralisk is so bad, that I would trade it for the zealot in a heartbeat, even without a warp prism or warp gate. And zealots charge faster than a pre-nerf ultra, without any of the corresponding terrain or sim city issues. It's a T3 unit that can't actually kill an equivalent supply of other units unless they choose to engage stupidly, it costs more and because it's melee, building more ultralisks actually makes them less effective than any Ranged unit which snowballs like tanks, thors, broodlords, lurkers, etc. They can keep trying to make it good, or they can drop it to 2 supply or something and make it attractive for other reasons, but it was already bad without the speed nerf.

[@phoenixlich]

@@pondracek not sure why it matters that the other races have different T3 units when this is an asymmetrical 3 race RTS in the first place. The Ultra is never meant to be a monolith or used in isolation. Zerg already has the fast melee run-by role covered with zerglings/banelings, anyways and they're far better in huge numbers than zealots anyways. I think you are misunderstanding the role of the Ultra. It's no different than building a bunch of thors without support and being astonished as they get massacred despite being giant walking mechwarrior battlemechs. Watch how Serral and Dark and Rogue and Soo and Scarlett make use of Ultras or even when they DON'T use them. it will help you to understand their role in an ARMY rather than thinking of them as a standalone win condition.

[@pondracek]

@phoenixlich Different is different, sure. But the ultra is a unit that simply arrives long after its counters litter the battlefield, doesn't change a thing, and is more expensive, less versatile, less mobile, and less useful than the 12 lings or banes it replaces supply-wise. As a melee unit it doesn't scale, and it isn't good in small battles either because of its cost and supply inefficiency. Even in ZVZ, where its immunity to fungal and neural makes it the only match-up where it has a use, one of the best counters to ultra is pure roach. Let that sink in. It is worse in t3 than roaches, which are already too supply-inefficient to use in T3. But it's OK against pure zealot or pure marine. Except banes are better and it sucks to have to spend gas to counter pure minerals either way.

[@joserecart3937]

ghost "nerf" is totally fake news... In TvP you dont need as many as in TvZ, so ghosts are still too strong on TvP, as this "nerf" does not reduce the ghost power directly. I mean, if the council does not want to nerf the ghost, you could move 20shields from every toss fighting unit into HP por instance. Being able to blanked the entire protoss army with 4 EMPs has not been fixed by this change at all.

[@qcdoomqc]

That change is for the absurd amount of ghosts that Terran can mass for very little supply in the late game against zerg. Protoss don’t need the ghosts nerfed, they need* units such as colossi or storms buffed in some way to help them where they struggle the most which is the late game vs Terran. *edit

[@DrMentosFreshMaker]

Rectilinear locomotion

[@Fummy007]

Reticulated peristalsis

[@goodguycwyzz4768]

The balance team is way out of touch with the game.

[@nunoaguiar2525]

Why Ultras even move it's the real question. Just turn them into a melee cannon. Makes the most logical sense ever.

[@belhaddim5116]

The council is either completely clueless or absolutely biased. Last patch was atrocious and this one is just devcent because they removed most of those changes.

[@cryptorage7206]

I think I'm getting some chillz here.

[@CryckTek]

Any comments on the blinding cloud bug fix?

[@godfatherinokripperino606]

Jim Raynor chomped down onto Dr Stettmans..

[@schippes24]

nerfing ghost from 2 > 3 supply wont change terran composition. they'll have like 2-3 tanks or 10marines less and still be at 20ghosts. also justifying nerfs to other races because you "nerfed" tje ghost, a unit that definitly needed a nerf and whose powerlevel hasnt been touched at all even now, just shows that terran players in the council definitly know how to impact decisions in their favor. despite the ghost situation, i still like a lot of these changes / revert changes. it's rare that a people are ready to abandon their ideas like that, bravo.

[@KorewaKosmo]

I mean the bio needs to stop to kite and shoot if they wanna deal damage. So it's not like the ultralisk is never going to reach their target. This is just giving the bio force the chance to stim and simply run without taking damage, as long as they don't try to do so as well

[@enochianwolf]

@@KorewaKosmo so the ultra can't do damage ever unless the Terran is afk and leaves their marines standing still, interesting uh.... balance?

[@KorewaKosmo]

@enochianwolf uhmmm,, u clearly didn't understand shit lol

[@enochianwolf]

@@KorewaKosmo wrong, I'm correct. If an ultralisk is coming towards a bio ball, all Terran has to do is stim and run away. The ultra will not catch up, therefore will do zero damage.

[@KorewaKosmo]

@enochianwolf as so the bio force lmao It goes for both, that's the whole point

[@enochianwolf]

@KorewaKosmo they aren't the same tier, but they balance out?

[@BlackTorrent]

seems okay, we will see what happens in the pro-scene. Protoss T1 through T3 units will probably still get hard countered by stock marines as usual thus mid terran players will still face roll the top protoss. Mothership is nice, Ghost still might need more nerfs, their snipe ability should NEVER be able to hard counter T2 -T3 units. Ultra nerf is stupid! once again marines with stutter step will just hard counter ultras which force the zerg player to invest in infestors to slow them down. Imagine that a 50 mineral 1 supply unit with a really fast build time and low cost of entry, stutter stepping and hard kiteing a unit that requires a shitton of investment just to be able to make, plus the cost and unit supply of the ultra plus even more investments into infestors just so your ultra can catch them? Marines are stupid fucking broken.

[@VersusAllOdds]

Where's the ASL 3rd place cast???

[@inadine]

Hydra upgrade should be called Slither

[@AndreLuizSilva]

Protoss build diversity early game - wtf? I'd love a video showing how many different one base all ins can terran and protoss do.

[@cherrickdinn]

Yeah, Ultras going from unusable to still unusable is whatever. I'd love them to get some of their speed back, but if they don't it's not like Zergs are losing anything.

[@zergu-yf3gd]

we are losing something, they will get kited to death for free now. you don't even need ghost to freekill them anymore.

[@Societyman123]

They named it DASH??? NO NO NO it should be called like... Metabolic surge........

[@XDezibellX]

"zerg players didn't know how to press two buttons after another, so we had to dumb their version of stimpack down."

[@akosszilagyi2656]

For over 10+ years Abduct has been around. It took that long to make Mothership immune to it. It's baffling to me that they let such nonsensical bs stand for that long. This is too little too late.

[@tylerhoog3149]

Zerg has to have abduct vs mass skytoss when it had permit cloaking field now that it’s a ability we will see if it’s a issues

[@pondracek]

They had to incentivise zerg to teabag their opponent by abducting slower ultras into them somehow. Just FYI, ultras have been useless longer than abduct has existed.

[@totall4579]

"Too little too late" means what exactly in this context?

[@RonanLyleMusic]

Honestly at this point lets make ultras Kerrigan co op ultras with revive burrow charge and aoe healing. Make Ultras Great Again

[@justincronkright5025]

Cyclones going back to normal would be strong versus the Ultras now - or the bonus damage is mechanical & doesn't affect them or something? Call HYDRALISK 'Slither/Slide' no???

[@verspunken]

Finally no more yoinking the Mothership, about damn time.

[@petercrocco5461]

Dash implies hydras have legs... should be called lubricated slither.

[@FerusVagari]

They haven't reverted the nerf changes to Immortals

[@bobxbaker]

i don't agree with the stalker or ultra change, the stalker one is simply because of 4gate stalker, but it might not be that much of an issue since if you're going stalker you're gonna get warpgate which is even faster than 27 seconds. as for ultras, i think if a terran has a bio ball i think they should be afraid of moving out on the map against ultras because ultras should be good against bio balls, because what else are they actually good against?

[@TheLOMTONG]

I think the Stalker change is more of a buff against proxy racks, and maybe a slight buff to proxy gate, not going to be a big deal for builds like 4 gate blink I think. Regarding the Ultra, they were trying to stop turtle play, and it really is the case that ultra's kill the fight for map control, making the game more static, along with a lower strength max T army, this should help encourage more active TvZ play while also discouraging Terran from committing to turtle play before the endgame when scv's can be sacrificed. It seems more aligned with their stated goals IMO.

[@bobxbaker]

@@TheLOMTONG yeah but the stalker thing it can be a bit of a buff to cheese, but i don't know since who goes stalkers on gateway production if they are gonna cheese? but isn't basically every terran playstyle turtly except for bio ball because of how fragile and fast it is?

[@TheLOMTONG]

​@@bobxbaker 1 gate proxy zealot -> stalker is still fairly common in PvT, but I doubt the change will influence it that much. Mech is still fairly uncommon in ZvT, the turtle play only really happens once ultras and corrupters are on the field as it becomes inefficient for a bio Terran to trade on the map. Terran's then feel forced to hide behind a dozen planetaries with ghosts so they don't get overwhelmed. Most bio Terran's are in spirit against turtle play, they almost all hate playing with or vs mech and prefer active games. They also don't want games longer than 15 minutes because they all have RSI ;). They don't turtle for 30+ minutes because it's an easy win or something, it's because they feel it's the only viable course of action TO win in the late game, without an unreasonable level of outplay, à la Clem. Hopefully this change will help reduce the turtle play, so Zerg's can go back to complaining about dying to 2-2 timing attacks and BC's again. It's fine that people complain about the stale late game, or the efficiency of the ghost, but a lot of the more fervent complainers about turtle terran have been doing so forever. Their complaint essentially comes down to wanting all Terran's to gg as soon as Zerg is fully established, which seems ridiculously entitled IMO. Sorry for the essay, just venting! :)

[@bobxbaker]

@@TheLOMTONG i don't think terran have to switch to ghost mech or as you say turtle with planetary fortresses to transition to it, they can still use bio ball but now they can't actually go head to head with zerg units in late game when they have ultras which is fine so they have to outplay them with movement as what is actually intended with bio play. like you don't suddenly stop medivac dropping just because they have big ultralisks that you can fly over and pick stuff off like tech structures and then force engagements with the zerg army and take unfavourable engagements to get rid of that high tech zerg army to where it's just zerglings and roaches again because you sniped their tech that's kinda the issue with zerg, it takes time to get to hive tech and you don't really make extra hives and extra spires and extra ultralisk caverns incase the enemy tries to snipe one of them, so when hive is destroyed they can't remake the ultralisk cavern and then you kill that and no more ultras except those on the field already which you just grind down with lots of bio and better tech. i mean terran already do that against protoss with bio ball so i don't see the difference, they attack every base they can with drops and overwhelm a slow expensive protoss army by being everywhere, they will just have to do the same with zerg so i don't see why zerg bio has to be able to kite ultras on the ground because that only means that bio will beat ultras on the ground in a heads up fight, and if ultras can't do that then what is ultras good against?

[@TheLOMTONG]

@@bobxbaker Ultra's and corrupters, I said corrupters. Sniping hive every game is not a viable late game for Terran... Like, what kind of argument is that? You want every late game TvZ to be the Terran trying to snipe the Hive so Zerg can't make Ultra's, so the Terran don't have to turtle? That's some complete nonsense, and don't start with that 'don't let them get there' garbage because if you believed that you couldn't possibly have any complaint against turtle play. It's not binary, Ultra's are not either too good or useless, if the aim is to stop turtle play you have to change the unit that it's used to counter. Otherwise the turtle play continues, it's just less effective, so you're not modifying gameplay, you're effecting win-rates, which weren't the issue and wasn't the intention of the change.

[@nagumo3216]

For SC Gods sake, please let the supply increase for ghosts come true. I'm talking only by a watching point of view of Progames and late game mass ghost armys are so lame to watch and really aweful what they are able to do. This will not change everything but every nerf to ghost is a good thing imo :) I'm a big fan of this changes of the changes, i really hope they go on like this and give us in the end a more balanced game, again only from a watching point of view. Would love to see more protoss power at the end of a tournament.

[@FlymanMS]

Dash is literally Double Speed from Worms lol

[@phoneoperator]

is artosis a protoss main? this feels so biased

[@llamadelreyii3369]

The joke here is that Terran still a nightmare to deal with and Zerg is getting nerfed against Terran. The only bias here is people complaining about the revert of unnecessary changes and one necessary change that should have been done 10 years ago.

[@Nixissus]

Mothership change is fine but removing the unit would be better.

[@novakat1]

Thumbs up for silly upgrade names!

[@afterlife320]

So now when you cannot abduct the mothership and buffing it vs hydra, the corruptor cannot reach it into max skytoss invisiable army - Zerg already struggles in the late game especially vs skytoss 😢 Big L just make Zerg more frustrating to play each and every patch until everyone plays Terran 🙄

[@oscarhellberg]

I just love the dynamic, dash too hard to control for some zerg players so lets make it easier and better. While, Overcharge is to powerful and to easy to use so lets make something that pro's can do well and so less skilled players struggle. Am I the only one that think it's funny how they wanna make one race more difference in skill while they want to make it easier for all players on another race. this is just one example, but just think it's funny. Like fore example the ultralisk change, oh I can't move my other units out of the way so lets have ultras be able to push them aside. All in all zerg has been favoured since sc2 came out and it just feels like they keep going at it....

[@baziloneil1271]

The obvious problem of pros dictating balance should have never been allowed to happen, especially since it is 80% terrans. This "Balance Council" is ruining the game for the 99.9% of non-pros.

[@dvaritek434]

The summer fall interns are fixing the game by reverting all their own changes 😂

[@DxAxxxTyriel]

jesus christ the sc2 devs backpedaled almost everything they added

[@patrickdement1474]

How were Ghosts 2 supply all this time? lmao

[@xardiodrack1798]

i be honest i really don't like the ultra change

[@34243]

I still dont like the inmortal and disruptor nerfs

[@AudreyandmeAu]

they could have reduced the lib area and kept the reduced range

[@CloudianMH]

Ultras have always been a meme. You only build them if you are a mile ahead and even then you sre risking losing your whole army for free. How many times have we seen a zerg so far ahead swarm with ultra ling and lose out of seemingly nowhere Cause they ran out of money? Good old ultra repop

[@kalunvinka]

Massive units should not be able to be abducted. It is not lore friendly.

[@sc2youtube744]

Concusion shell slows ultras right? So if they want to reduce speed on ultra they should make them immune to concussive

[@llamadelreyii3369]

Ultras are immune to slow

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

Protoss got a fairly massive buff vs zerg. Mostly tempest and overcharge buff. Previous overcharge would just die instantly in a bile volley. Tempests make brood lords worse overall and hydras were the only relevant unit and they got nerfed. The buffed units are still sucky. Terran got a buff, but they always do to compensate for their diminishing skill compared to the other races. These new changes are all great though.

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

and then we get to ultralisk speed nerf to make them even more worthless vs bio. Why would you nerf the most overpriced unit in the game? Terrans must be really good at complaining. nobody is even going to test this change because they shouldn't have been building the unit anyway. You shouldn't have upgrades that make the unit viable if it's otherwise not viable. Terran doesn't have any of this. Marines are still good and then they get better with the upgrades, same with all terran units. ESpecially if it's already a late game upgrade like Ultras. You have to build the building and get 2 upgrades before you even start using them. It's easier to get out battlecruisers than ultras.

[@DarkMaster2522]

⁠@@AntiDoctor-cx2jdu know they done fucked up when a guy i know who plays terran religiously says that its a retarded change

[@dustincintron1682]

Weird that pvz was improved but pvt wasn't. And PvT is the issue at pro play. But i suppose that's what the ghost nerf was for.

[@AntiDoctor-cx2jd]

​@@dustincintron1682 yeah T didnt get a real nerf. Considering how good the ghost is, and how terran also gets a basically supply bouns because they can mine with 0-supply mules in the late game.

[@しらこ-465]

Modern SC2 is just kind of boring to watch. There is so little flexibility in playstyle and strategy that these minor balance changes get so much scrutiny. Every game just goes 200/200 so it just becomes a numbers game.

[@meritbrevity]

give dash to ultralisk

[@fartbox3987]

I just want to watch the probes burn!

[@Eliteownage]

I like this update to the patch, I still don't like the nerf to immortals or disruptors. It's stupid that a disruptor shot can't kill a marauder but can destroy a 6 of your own stalkers.

[@redeye8805]

Why are you shooting your stalkers

[@llamadelreyii3369]

@@redeye8805 i saw a terran stim and make their marauder kiss the Protoss army so they get friendly fire by disrputors lmao

[@hl_d_w_g]

I think you misunderstood the change to Dash. It does not lock the Hydra's movement, it just gives it a move command that can be then altered. This change is to help low APM players.

[@Broockle]

I thought The Hydra dash was already working this way lol. Ye it's sad how the balance council thinks Ultras are smhw OP. When do we ever see Ultras ever?

[@reishiki8682]

If they made them resistant to upgraded marauders.😂

[@Broockle]

@@reishiki8682 they do have resistance to that. Or do you mean to remove the resistance? That'd be lame imho. Remember the old 330 mm barrage that would stunlock the target while it murced them?

[@danfoote882]

Surge instead of Dash petition

[@nicknoss5341]

Mannnnn at least let us have smart servos on libs 😭😭😭😭

[@mattcat83]

Bring back the Mothership Core.

[@qcdoomqc]

Are you crazy lol

[@johankustonen5329]

I disagree with the statement about the mothership at 5:02 since it sort of presents a major problem in the matchup. How will zerg be able to kill a mothership-skytoss army in the lategame when it's maxed out? I mean, seriously - how will this be done? Zerg anti air suffers from being short range and the mommaship is invariably protected by a clump of archons. Corruptors get decimated by archons - as do hydralisks if you even count them as anti-air. Viper in itself isn't a cheap unit - and it has a very niche role in what it does. It's basically either used to plop down cover for groud units - OR disassemble (with abduct and parabomb) an army that the zerg CANNOT attack into. Be it siege tanks which rip everything to shreds on the ground - archons which rip EVERYTHING to shreds at close range - stimmed marines and marauders under a cloud of medivacs - or a mothership that cloaks/recalls a skytoss deathball. The viper achieves this disassembling by either abducting units out of the army or forcing the army to split itself by applying parasitic bombs (125 energy a piece) on targets in the hopes that they will be pulled away from the rest of the army. The "How can my most expensive unit be destroyed?" argument is just... silly. It's like saying Battlecruisers shouldn't be able to be shot by stalkers, since the battlecruiser is so much more expensive than a stalker. Or that siege tanks should be immune to zergling bites since they cost more than a zergling does.

[@johankustonen5329]

As another point: 5:48 - a mothership SHOULD BE DESTROYED if it gets abducted into a swarm of FORTY CORRUPTORS. It doesn't matter HOW EXPENSIVE a mothership is - if your air unit gets into a fight with a lower cost (but not CHEAP at 150/100) unit that outnumbers it FORTY TIMES OVER... Yes. It should pop. The circumstances which you have outlined cost WAY MORE than "100 energy which you suck off your extractor". Basically it costs 6100 minerals, 4200 gas, plus the energy. That's how much 40 corruptors, a viper and the abduct costs. Plus the tech to allow them to be built. Sooo.... I wouldn't say it's as much black and white as you make it out to be. I don't see how it would be "more fair" that the zerg should use thousands of minerals and gas in the form of shredded corruptors to get rid of the mothership - which is what usually happens if you try to engage into it while the rest of the 'toss army is untargetable behind it while at the same time pelting the corruptors with AoE.... than it would be to just protect your mothership by covering it with air units that can be mistakenly abducted instead.

[@johankustonen5329]

And if you really REALLY still think the mothership should be invulnerable to abilities since it costs so much, would you be willing to let it get nerfed so it can't cloak units anymore? I mean, it does DAMAGE now too, surely it can defend itself if it can't be abducted? Yes, of course you would hate that. The point is I vibe with the fact that a mothership should be big and cool and useful... but it shouldn't be nearly impossible to get rid of it once it's in the field. Making it immune to abduct is basically like saying zerg shouldn't be able to destroy a mothership - ever. I'd like to see an iteration of this where abduct only abducts a mothership 50% of the range it normally does (due to momma being so big and clunky) or even 33% of the normal range abduct moves it. But making it impossible to yank it away from it's usually powerful escorts just makes it way too easy for said escorts to annihilate any army that tries to engage the mothership AND the army it invariably protects.

[@llamadelreyii3369]

@@johankustonen5329 Brother abduct works on every single unit besides the mothership, and mothership its not a fighting unit for you to say that it can defend itself when its getting instakilled because it can be instatly pulled into a enemy death ball. I mean, yes, it can tickle 4 units at once, how strong lol You did a wall of test to say absolute nothing.

[@johankustonen5329]

@@llamadelreyii3369 Yeeeeees?? And abduct should work on every unit - no exceptions. And yes - I know mothership isn't a fighting unit. I tried to be sarcastic about it. In case you missed the point that I was trying to make: Zerg has no other way of DEALING with a mothership besides abduct. They can't engage it in any other way without taking absolutely horrendous losses. That's why abduct working on it is absolutely mandatory. I also suggested this could be done in a way that allows the mothership to survive a SINGLE abduct by making it move less than the full abduct distance by making her... "heavier" to move I guess. But making it immune to the only ability zerg has to somehow destroy it without throwing half their army away isn't a smart move.

[@llamadelreyii3369]

@@johankustonen5329 sarcams that does't sound like sarcams and serves no purpose zerg can literally abduct everything else, thats the point, abduct other things or use the other spellcasters, is viper the only Zerg spellcaster or i forgot the others ? Mothership can't permacloak, otherswise the abduct immunity would have been a problem, but thats not the case anymore

[@jadoyon]

Protoss has been by far the worse race for almost a decade now. Its absurd they do not buff it so Protoss can finally win some GSLs