Scales and gauges Part 16 - HOn 2 1//2 - HOn30 - HOe

This week we are looking at HOn 2 1/2 HOn30 and HOe. The truth is these are all basically the same thing. Ho. trains that run on "N Gauge" track, 9mm. Also used in "O" scale as On18.
HOn2 1/2 is the same as saying HOn30 Two and a half feet, or thirty inches. HOe is an expression for any European (e) narrow gauge modeled in HO scale and using 9mm track.
HOn30 was quite popular in the United States in the 1980s, but its popularity has fallen off. Several great products were imported into the US from Japan by Joe Works.
HOe and OOe are still very popular in Europe, especially in Germany, Switzerland, and Austria.

[@AtreiusLux]

Hello from across the pond in the UK! I came across this video through investigating what the differences were in H0 scale narrow gauges, they seem to follow a similar principle to how 00 and N/009 are used here to represent the multitude of different narrow gauges. Also nice to see some Joe Works models, I was very generously gifted a D&RGW C16 loco that previously belonged to my grandfather, untouched since he passed away in '95. Still runs like a dream!

[@robertweldon7909]

What is so neat here is that someone thought it a good idea to make those products. The c-16 and Forney reminded me of 2 foot gauge New England rail roads. If nothing else, the nostalgia here is super. ;-)

[@ToyManTelevision]

It was a fun time. The tiny little layouts that looked like and were about the same size as a wedding cake. Well.. didn’t look like a wedding cake but you get the idea…

[@nathancorcoran5347]

Pretty cool video about all of this scale system of these model trains.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi again

[@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951]

Great info. Great looking Mini's.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi again!!!

[@caseyvillemodelrailroad3877]

Great Scales again... liked the comment on the wider tie spacing look. I've been cutting my 0 gauge gargraves outside rail off and getting a real narrow gauge look to the track, exact is 2'5" ... trucks are hornby nugged in a 1/16"... Thanks for the coffee...

[@ToyManTelevision]

Cool idea!!

[@stevemellin5806]

Really cool

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks Steve!

[@Santafefrank]

Thanks

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks back!!!

[@northpennvalleysteamrailroad]

Cool

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks!

[@kenshores9900]

All a state of mine. Great video. QWERTY as usual but QWERTY in a very good way. Rail on

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi Ken. As long as it’s good! I hope. Sooooo looking forward to better weather and getting out and doing outside stuff. A bit more home row.

[@growclipbonsaiforseniors1951]

A great Tuesday morning video to watch

[@ToyManTelevision]

Thanks.

[@brandonschurman5797]

Dude literally has a gold mine in his garage and acts like it’s nothing 😂😂

[@ToyManTelevision]

No the gold mine is on the layout. 1:20.3 scale. It’s vary nice.

[@valeriebassett3107]

When the classes on gauges and scales are finished , do we get some kind of degree? Haha. Love this, there are so interesting. I bet dale, that you and Karyn were phenomenal teachers!!!! Have a great week!! Happy Valentine's Day too!

[@ToyManTelevision]

There is a quiz. Simple. Just 160 questions and a 2,000 word essay. And I’ll give the essay question up front: what scale should have been created after World War Two and wasn’t. And why do you think so? See. Simple. 😅

[@darceesams5542]

Can you tell me the difference between On30 and On30? I kind of getting into trains and want to understand. Thank you Jimmy

[@billpihl1]

Another great vlog guys, a little lacking in puns but that is ok lol. Just keeping up the fun. I am currently working on building a hon30 locomotve using a bachmann yard engine and 3D printing the body.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Cool! HOn30 sorta coming back in the US because of 3D printing and people like you who wanna build cool little things!

[@pbyfr]

I didn't know that Minitrains was originally a Roco brand. When I bought my HOe stuff in late 90s, it was under Roco name (but the cars were still the same as yours). Now Roco only still sell the HOe track (which is nice HO narrow gauge, like the Peco one, not N track), and Minitrains is a recent new company (and totally separated from Roco), with a lot of stuff (and from what I have seen, it works well better than the old Roco locomotives). Bachmann is also doing a lot of UK stuff, but it should be more OO9 than HOe. And several Japanese artisans are still producing HOe brass kits, but of Japanese prototypes (but some where imported Baldwin and Plymouth license).

[@ToyManTelevision]

And may yet make a comeback in America. With 3D printing all that is needed are mechanisms and wheel trucks.

[@pbyfr]

@@ToyManTelevision For that Arumodel has a nice choice of different power kits, both for 9 and 16.5mm gauge. And it is just folding and screw, no soldering needed. And for the 3D printed model, many are available, like jellymodels. But these suppliers seem to come and go very fast.

[@tomas5376]

Wow, everything today is sooooooooo expensive! Would love to see an extended video of the mine and mine train that began this video.🚂🚂🚂

[@ToyManTelevision]

Wish I had taken video! Or even photos. Oops.

[@royreynolds108]

I have at least 2 AHM MiniTrains, possibly 3 sets from the 60s. The problem with them was the gears on the driver axles cracked. If I remember right, NWSL offered replacement brass gears but I never got any.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Same trains! AHM imported ROCO. Reason I replaced my 4 wheel drives…

[@krissfemmpaws1029]

So many gauges and scales it's hard to keep track of them.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Keep “track”?

[@muir8009]

Toy Man Television team: I have a query regarding G scale I guess. As we're well aware Lehmann gave their new trains the size G, either for Grossbahn, or Gartenbahn, the Richters seemed to be a bit hazy on this. Now, of course, those were to a scale of 1:22.5, just right for those Harz Mountain gems. Then of course came others; Bachmann Big Haulers, Kalamazoo I think it was, USA trains, MDC, Aristocraft and a bunch of others I can't remember. Where my query comes in is that the newer, standard gauge scale products on the same 45mm track still associate with the scale as G, but at 1:29 or even nudging into 1:32: gauge 1. This occurrence blurs between gauge 1, with MTH producing gauge 1 products, and others ostensibly using the same scale but labeled as G. And we're not talking in an 0 and 027 way either. I've also noticed that a lot of those comparative scale size diagrams solely depict G, and neglect 1. Would this be more of a geographical trend for marketing? With gauge 1 and it's more European connotations maybe G just has more marketing value for US customers. Gauge 1 has been nonexistent for the US since the dropping of Ives gauge 1 products in favour of gauge 2. It would seem a shame to neglect the oldest existing scale, and the only one of the originals to still be going. Thoughts on the back of a postcard please...

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi! This is going to be an upcoming series. Right now I’m afraid we’ve reached a point where we’re boring people. But soon we will get on to number one gauge. So G was truly garden. Basically the same first letter in German or English so that worked out well. But it means meter gauge. So number one gauge track 1:22.5 scale for a prototype 1 m gauge. The American Proto types done to that scale are in fact gaged therefore at 1 m rather than 3 feet. Close enough I guess for most people. But then the purest come along and want true 3 feet and so model at 120.3 . Making the gauge an accurate 3 feet referring to this size as F scale. Originally fine scale was going to be set to 1/2 inch scale. Simply because by making the train smaller, you could achieve an indoor rail road much more readily. A clever idea that didn’t last terribly long, but a lot of the early brass and fine scale attempts were all done to 1/2 inch scale. These should never be referred to as G scale but always referred to as 1/2 inch scale. Then along comes 1/29 scale, which is also definitely not G scale. And this should always be referred to as 1/29 scale, as no other designation has been given to it. Then there is the oldest number one gauge and that is number one scale. 1/32 scale. Not modeled that much anymore but wind the clock back in. That was the only scale available for number one gauge. Works out to a 5 foot gauge just as all the original number gauges did.

[@muir8009]

@@ToyManTelevision thanks for your response. I most definitely don't find your tales boring. Its rather ironic that as we have this discussion Piko have there 2023 releases, among them the prototype standard gauge Taurus (and of course they have an existing krokodil) all catalogued under G scale. There's really only the stalwart Marklin (and a couple of the museum quality manufacturers such as kiss) who seem to adhere to the gauge 1 nomenclature. If I may venture a proposition that I hope no one will be offended, it seems that gauge 1 and G have split in to two different camps. G is for the train operator, be it indoors or outdoors. Those that like the satisfying feel and bulk of the scale (still not a patch on the prewar standard and gauge 2 though!!). Those that like to run an sd70, but aren't afraid to mix it up a little and run a Bachmann climax or an lgb baby crocodile just for fun. Gauge 1 seems to have branched into the realm of the super expensive, museum model fidelity and the hyper technical. I'm definitely not saying one type is better than another, just different means to an end. Funny thing though, since that long ago Nuremberg toy fair where the young marklin brothers first exhibited the gauge concept to the model world, G is the only one that's ended up encompassing a plethora of different types and scales, including that rather fascinating curiosity of labeling both standard gauge and narrow gauge with the same descriptor. Grossbahn ("big railway") or gartenbahn ("garden railway") are still is apt a description today as 55 years ago... Fyi Lehmann (I.e LGB) were the only German manufacturer who during the whole war continued to manufacture toys, selling to neutral and "friendly" countries.

[@Seanmmvi]

Is that an engine you would consider selling?

[@Conn653]

Another concept is, if working in 'O' scale, add a 'Z' scale engine, flat cars with seats, and a caboose, in a park setting = train ride in the park. (Forced perspective.) You could do this in 'G' scale with an 'N' scale park train that really operates.

[@ToyManTelevision]

I’ve heard it called Op. p for PARK. Any gauge in O scale when used in a park or live steam club. Common terminology in Britain.

[@daviemaclean61]

OO9 is still extortionate, but Kato make great chassis you can put any number of 3d printed loco bodies on - and that seems to be an industry all of it's own.

[@ToyManTelevision]

I’ve seen the 3D printed models on eBay. Didn’t know about Kato. Now I get it!

[@loispadgett6306]

Can it get any crazier in scales 😂 I like the N scale trains myself but would love to find those narrow gauges to run on my N scale layout. Maybe someday. GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hi. Yup. These are some cute TINY trains. I’m betting they make a comeback in the US.

[@pathvalleyrailroad9277]

Nn3 uses Z gauge (6.5mm) track for 3 foot N scale. It's a bit wide, 65 mm scales out to about 42 inches instead of 36, but it's close enough.

[@loispadgett6306]

@@pathvalleyrailroad9277 I have looked for Nn3 but they are expansive. One day I will get one. GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖

[@HenrikLaurell]

The Bagnall loco you did show is NOT made by Roco, it is a MiniTrains loco. 009 and HOe is not the same. 00 is 1:76 scale there HO is 1:87, but yes they both run on N scale 9mm gauge track.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Yup. But ROCO made MiniTrains in the 60’s. Or import? Made in Yugoslavia. RICO was in Austria. So??? AHM was the US importer. MiniTrains are now made in? And while the scale is different MiniTrains called them either. Note on the eBay listing it says the $300 locomotive is OO/HOe.

[@HenrikLaurell]

For ROCO in the 60s MiniTrains was just a name as in mini trains. MiniTrains as a brand came much later. MiniTrains is a German company started by Andreas Schönfeld in 2010. Andreas was one of the guys behind Eggerbahn which later made ROCO, Lilliput and several others to follow on the idea of HOe.

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hum. Okay. But MinitrainS was their brand name. So not sure how that evolved but these were always known as Minitrains. By ROCO. Salzburg.

[@HenrikLaurell]

Yes I know. It is a bit confusing.. I will see if I can find out how Andreas could register a company with the same name as ROCO/ AHM used on their products. Since they only used it in the states, maybe copyright did not apply in Europe.

[@johnrettig1880]

" How many times do I have to tell you that ' Close Only Counts ' In Horse shoes ,. Hand grenades and Thermal Nuclear Warheads "

[@ToyManTelevision]

Hum… you never took a young lady to a movie when you were a teenager? Close is relative.

[@johnrettig1880]

@@ToyManTelevision Maybe Somebody else s Relative That and then I Hardly ever went to the Movies

[@johnrettig1880]

On the other hand That probably why I'm a better Klingon I'm meaner

[@akarinnnnnn]

Not much info about HOn30 / HOn2 1/2 at all in the actual video not even mention of it's use as representing Maine's two foot gauge.

[@ToyManTelevision]

I was really into the Crescent Tramway. Only 30” gage I know of in America. I guess it would work for Mane. And I’ve seen some 3D printed shells.