Scandals, Faith Crises & the Spiritual Realm with Rod Dreher

[@thesacredpodcast]

If you enjoyed this episode don't forget to hit the like button, and subscribe to our channel for more fascinating conversations!

[@bayreuth79]

Where is the care of the vulnerable with the Democrats? Look at their policies with respect to abortion. The Democrats, as with the Republicans, are more or less in the pockets of the corporations and other business interests. There is mass homelessness in the US right now. What have the Democrats done about this? Nothing. Do you think its a good idea to defund the police? Do you think that that is going to help the vulnerable? What Americans on the right are against is mass _illegal_ immigration. How is that racist? We have no idea whatsoever who is coming into the US from Central America and Canada (illegal immigrants fly to Canada and walk into the country from there sometimes). Lots of Americans are furious that there are countless homeless people and the US government does nothing- and yet illegal immigrants are given money and even homes. That has to be wrong. I am all for helping the vulnerable! But there needs to be a measure of control or (unsurprinsgly) the average American is going to feel that their tax dollars are going to people who shouldn't be there! Moreover, illegal immigration leads to exploitation of those people for profit, and if you think that the Democrats are not content with that arrangement then you are ignorant of the facts of the ground. Trump is awful- but so is Harris (and Clinton and Obama). I do not vote.

[@williamoarlock8634]

Will you be having Doug Wilson, or Westboro Baptists on next?

[@lauriethompson740]

This was exactly what this podcast is all about, hearing someone as their 'more considered self', with more depth of background and personal journey. Hearing his experience with his family was heartbreaking, but wonderful that he drew an insightful lesson from it. As Elizabeth says in her after thought, this would merit further discussion between them as she is 'so close, yet so far away' so goes to the heart of our cultural polarisation

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Blogging Rod so often feels panicky and alarmist, but to meet him in person is an entirely different thing. Much more love and joy.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

I like the reflection piece right after the interview. I'll have to ponder this technique.

[@PaulVanderKlay]

This really went well, better than I expected. :)

[@katiekiskaddon6753]

Wow. I found your podcast through a link on Fr. James Martin's Facebook page, watched your interview with him, and immediately subscribed. As an American with past experience in interfaith dialogue who is now just trying to hide out from the scary polarization happening in my country and world, these interviews are blowing my mind. I know you said you wished you had pushed yourself more on certain topics, but let's give you credit for pushing and exploring difference in a context of open and friendly dialogue and fellowship in a way that is desperately needed in the world today--and deeply satisfying to my soul! Thank you.

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@katiekiskaddon6753 Thanks so much for sharing this. Really glad to enjoyed both conversations!

[@teestrypzSOG]

this remains my favourite podcast, Elizabeth's genuine curiosity in learning more about people from all sides is a skill the world needs more of.

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@teestrypzSOG This means a lot to hear. Thanks so much! 🙏

[@PaulVanderKlay]

Oh Tayo how could you??!! :))))

[@thesacredpodcast]

@PaulVanderKlay 😂

[@eliasblum753]

The interview with Rod was interesting enough, but I wasn't expecting the Patrick Leigh-Fermor bonus at the end. That was cracking stuff.

[@Djessie11]

I'm so totally down with that longer conversation with Rod. It should happen! I share your intuitions about Rod's political theology, and I'd love for you two to flesh that area out more. On the statement about you having once identified as a post-liberal, I call myself a post-liberal too, but I think it needs a new name. What do you think?

[@EmilyTodicescu]

The Biblical edict to “welcome the stranger” (i.e. hospitality) needs to be balanced with “don’t create conditions that result in deep societal divisions, so that many are harmed as a result (including the stranger).”

[@deviantfish2711]

It would be interesting to hear Dreher's opinion on the works of Carlos Castenada.

[@ExaminedLifePodcast]

Great conversation, thank you! Really good to hear the question about migration etc and how Rod balances his view with theology.

[@thesacredpodcast]

Thanks for listening!

[@kevinolson1102]

@54:02 and following - "Re-enchantment of the world"..."The old gods are rising"..."The unseen...is coming back into focus". My first serious consideration of this topic was due to the late Michael Heiser. He changed the way I read and understand the Bible, made me more henotheistic in my views of what was going on, especially in the Old Testament. I am currently on a quest to understand the great battle between the demonic world and Jesus (and, to a lesser extent, His disciples). This came into sharp focus for me when reading Mark's gospel earlier this year, in which this plays out again and again within the first 11 or so chapters. Part of my mission is to understand how these same forces evidence today. I, too, am wondering about the recent openness to discuss the UFO phenomenon, even in polite and official circles, and whether (or how) that may be connected. I don't have any good clear answers, still mostly questions. I'll have to look for Rod's new book. @59:30 - "Turned up to 11". Spinal Tap reference! @1:01:09 - recapitulating the earlier discussion, "the alien and the stranger". For me, reading the story of Ruth best shows how the Law was best worked out in practice in this regard. There are of course, many other examples, but this narrative speaks powerfully through the actions of Boaz, showing how to look after widows, orphans, strangers and aliens (at some point in the story, Ruth is at least three of those I think, and maybe all four if you consider the loss of her father-in-law as rendering her an orphan). At any rate, I very much enjoyed this conversation with Rod.

[@grailcountry]

I have read Rod for years, beginning with his days at National Review. I have the same kind of reaction to him that you express in your epilogue. Finding broad areas of agreement running up against radical disagreement in political theology. I am a Christian Anarchist so I am neither comfortable with liberalism (the tyranny of the majority is still tyranny) nor post liberalism (which is just old fashioned tyranny with Christian trappings. Having these conversations is important. If Christians can't figure out a way to talk to each and love each other despite these political divides what chance does the world have? Too often here in America churches have only politically like minded people in the pews. This is easy for me to see from my vantage point as a Christian Anarchist because unless I were to become an Anabaptist, I don't really align well with the any of the dominant factions as a Christian Anarchist. Your podcast is delightful and very much aligned with the work I do on the ground in Estuary. (I'm one of the satellites around Paul Vander Klay), the weird Christian Anarchist fringe of TLC.

[@mokeboi3328]

Wonderful. Dreher is a giant.

[@Hope20249]

Great conversation. Thanks

[@tjminstrel]

Great podcast. Just reading his book at the moment. Great to hear him speak

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@tjminstrel Thank you! 🙏

[@MusicaAngela]

You said right at the end that you weren’t “brave enough to push it” after Rod gave his explanation for why he is voting for Trump. I think you are very wise not to push back. What you excel at Elizabeth is allowing people to express themselves so that we, as listeners are able to come to assess how they think, however, painful it might be for us to hear such views.

[@mokeboi3328]

Ironing board..nice touch!

[@makaminsk]

this is great, thank you

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@makaminsk Thanks for watching!

[@turner373]

I wonder how he squares holding authority and hierarchy as sacred and the fact that those values were employed against him, destroying his marriage and relationship with his family and how this relates a desire for certainty that authoritarians offer, it made him feel safe at home, safe in the streets of Budapest. It’s worth reflecting on.

[@MusicaAngela]

Yes, you pinpoint one of his overarching inconsistencies.

[@bobtaylor170]

If you read him, I don't understand how anyone can view his family's actions as anything other than shocking. I can't see that it can be conflated with legitimate authority.

[@JohnAnon-mh5el]

Wonderful interview. I ordered the book. Have you read The Ethics of Beauty by Dr. Timothy Patitsas? He would be a great interview along these lines of discussion.

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@JohnAnon-mh5el thanks for watching! I haven’t heard of him. But will definitely check him out.

[@JohnAnon-mh5el]

@@thesacredpodcast I really appreciate your humility and openness to other perspectives. Just subscribed to your channel. I think you'll appreciate Timothy Patitsas' approach in The Ethics of Beauty. I'm assuming you're already familiar with Jonathan Pageau of the Symbolic World podcast. Have you interviewed him yet? You might also want to reach out to Simon Scionka and Silas Karbo, director and producer (respectively), of the documentary film, Sacred Alaska? Have you seen it yet?

[@macsprinter]

Cannot find the book you talk about, Elizabeth. Can you provide a link? Love the night prayer.

[@thesacredpodcast]

Here we are! www.goodreads.com/book/show/766419.A_Time_to_Keep_Silence

[@koroglurustem1722]

Please invite Dr Van Ael. He is a spiritual master. Another name is Maryam Kabeer. She is a Sufi.

[@rons.9678]

I said last week that Rod was some one who was evenhanded in terms of politics, and you said that by coincidence that he’d be your next guest

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@rons.9678 How do you feel about this conversation?

[@PaulVanderKlay]

The political principalities are very strong in how they engage our intuitions. "It feels high stakes" and neither of you are living in the States. Interesting.

[@johnw6992]

I greatly admire your podcast and think that it is important. If you must delve into the political principalities that divide you, i think Rods statement that Trump represents lesser destruction than the democratic party is the key statement and intuition that would need to be addressed. Reasonable people are staring at each other from opposite ends of the bridge on that statement and each would have to look inward to meet in the middle. If that were to happen then each side would stop yelling across the river and turn around and start having real conversations with their own side. Neither side can see the extremes they are drifting into.

[@feeble_stirrings]

Great conversation. I know some don’t appreciate Rod, but I really do - though not to say I agree with everything he says. I’m less interested in the political/cultural content.

[@abdelhamidhamidissa8912]

Please could you do more episodes with Mr Tim .. aka Abdul Rahim Murad

[@hollythebordercollie2257]

I always would side with the underdog, the vulnerable and those who were damaged by a difficult life experience - until I realised sometimes you need to say no to those people because they are either going to upset your own stability (without you actually helping them anyway) or they are knowingly manipulative and using your empathy as a weapon against you. I feel so angry now because I feel politics on the left has turned into constant emotional manipulation rather then genuine concern for the vulnerable. Having always put the underdog first I now feel an instant revulsion for anyone in politics appealing to 'my compassion' as it feels like a coercive control move and I am instantly suspicious I am being manipulated (sad as sometimes of course a case does merit real sympathy/compassion and I assume the worst)

[@julianchase95]

The final ‘reflection’ section seems a bit over-wrought and self-involved… so Dreher has a different take on who the least bad options are for political leadership - why all the tension-filled handwringing? He says Trump et al are ‘least bad’ leaders - not great people (as you acknowledge). That seems like a reasonably viable position - not one that needs to have you in conniptions - though your discussion together remains very brief and superficial here, failing to examine more deeply why we are served up such wretched choices in the first place. Welcoming the stranger is surely vital - but welcoming radically different people in their millions who split, demoralise and weaken your society? Is that the injunction? Of course we must help societies and people in breakdown (not least by probing our own role in and responsibility for their breakdown…), no question - but to be in a position to help, a nation, like an individual, needs to be strong, united and able to generate firm positions backed by wealth and strength.

[@SaintGerardMajellaInc]

Subscribing ❤❤❤

[@bayreuth79]

I wonder what Rod Dreher thinks about Metropolitan Hilarion Alfayev and the scandal around him?

[@TF-ec5uj]

For an interesting further exploration of magic and its intersection with Christianity, I would recommend a book, Meditations on the Tarot: A journey into Christian Hermeticism. Also, I really appreciate this podcast. I have been listening for years and frequently find these dialogues to be challenging, uncomfortable, taxing. You make a mess of my would-be tidy assumptions. I need that, but I don't like that I do. Thanks for the hard work.

[@thesacredpodcast]

@@TF-ec5uj Wow! Really great to hear this - thanks for sharing! And thanks as well for the book recommendation. Will check it out.

[@patcandelora8496]

Just wondering if Rod ran TO Orthodoxy based on theological conviction or ran FROM Catholicism because of disgust and dissatisfaction? Sincere question not polemical.

[@johnoriordan789]

Is the Eastern Orthodox Church free of scandal? Genuine question.

[@kevinmorgan8534]

Good God no!

[@MusicaAngela]

Rod has paid a heavy price trying to reconcile the shunning he received from his family, particularly his father. I feel sorry for him. The evil he suffered has debilitated his mind and heart to such an extent that his views don’t seem like they emanate from God‘s grace upon him, but rather they are worldly views that can never be justified by his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Anyhow that’s my two cents.

[@SandraDoell-w5d]

My Aunt Emma married a, "Dreher,"

[@liammccann8763]

Curious if Rod has read 'School of Darkness' by Bella Dodd. The Catholic Church needs masculine men, not men who run away, like you have Rod. In hoc signo vinces +.

[@RobinTurner]

Rod comes across as an interesting and likeable character, but is he aware of the contradictions involved in (a) supporting Orban's anti-immigrant stance while living as an immigrant in Hungary and (b) leaving the Catholic Church because of the sexual abuse scandal yet wanting to make a sexual predator president of the USA? In both cases, he seems to be employing Utilitarian arguments that don't really go with his theology.

[@grahamluna6935]

A sexual predator president of the USA? could you share a little more info on that please? Thanks!

[@gabriellebaalke6704]

I had a very similar reaction and came to pose a similar question. There are in his comments so many contradictions. One is that he says 'we don't have gulags now' but the person for whom he allegedly voted has promised just such things. Then his comment about 'what people do' and the memory of his father helping his black neighbours is wonderful but extended to US political leadership this apparently doesn't stand. This seems a convenient oversight.

[@Martty_4]

I find it very hard to get inspired by people as complete beings. I have feminist therapist on social media who also promoted Kamala Harris the same women who was ok killing innocent women and children in Gaza. It's very hard to find people with the right set of values and integrity nowdays

[@RobinTurner]

@@Martty_4 As Cecil Day Lewis put it, It is the logic of our times, No subject for immortal verse - That we who lived by honest dreams Defend the bad against the worse.

[@F--B]

Rod Dreher spends time every morning gazing into the mirror and styling his hair.

[@williamoarlock8634]

'Enchanted' (superstitious and ignorant).

[@abdelhamidhamidissa8912]

Christianity is just the otherside of the coin of Greko-Roman paganism.. So talking about faith here .. really doesn't make it for me .. sorry I can't compete this broadcast

[@patriot-g3e]

You mean your Moon god llah which Had 3 daughters