No Start, No Spark on a 96 Nissan 2.4 [field trip with my class at Rosedale Tech]

[@ScannerDanner]

Don't let the age of the car deceive you into thinking this lesson in no spark diagnostics won't help you on today's cars. It will! 100% of everything I go over is still relevant today!

[@GrandePunto8V]

Except you shouldn't just spark all over the place in modern cars with electronic modules etc. Old-school tests are NOT first choice (if so, it must be educated choice/guess, not random f-ing around). What else. Things like "wet compression test" = spoiling modern emissions system, fouling oxygen sensors and cat. converter.

[@ScannerDanner]

​​@GrandePunto8V "spark all over the place" is not what I'm talking about, and not even what was shown here 🙄 I'm talking about coil negative control testing of a 2-wire coil. 2-wire COPs fall in this same exact testing procedure.​@GrandePunto8V

[@anthonygallegos3269]

​@GrandePunto8V yeah scanner danger knowledge level of electronics is early beginner stage. He doesn't really know much. Plus his teaching style isn't really that good. Lots of jumbled explanations comes across as a lack of intelligence.

[@ScannerDanner]

​@@anthonygallegos3269 😂🤡

[@Farseer1995]

​@@GrandePunto8V if the engine module is right by the valve cover as is the case with modern Mercedes, then you obviously have to use your brain. If you get that coil too close then it could damage it. But even then, the wires on the coil won't allow you to move that far. But other than that, grounding a C.O.P. with a spark plug on a valve cover (unless its plastic) does nothing to hurt the "modules". And SD is correct, many modern cars have 3 wire COP designs, which are essentially the same as the 2 wire. You can use a test light and a scope just like you would on the video. Difference being that the power can come from the ECU instead of from a fuse.

[@FreeKanal]

Love those types of videos, live troubleshooting with people who learns just like me.

[@pacman_17]

Just what I needed for my Saturday morning.

[@isalmankhan1]

AWESOME THANKS FOR SHARING SD😍😍😍 These kids are soo lucky they must be proud of themselves, they learned from the Best👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Stay Blessed Danner Family🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@spelunkerd]

Brilliant teaching, as always. If my high school teacher had offered this quality of education, I might well have become a mechanic many decades ago. In the end it became a life long passion, unfettered by distractions like trying to make money and shop drama, ha ha.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you brother

[@ashercohen4739]

Future generation, beautiful lesson, thanks for sharing.👍

[@blakestone8088]

I like to troubleshoot with Ya as I watch It keeps my skills up as I learn the new ways of Doing all this Smelling Fuel My first thought is for the Cat's, they are soaked with gas! Coil testing is more than just a output, if there's no Input - there will be no output Is the Coil getting a signal to charge is the next thing I would check That could go 2 ways - No computer output, or Bad wire You have power feeding the coil - it's a "Dead Coil" Yep - We Called it! (In my day we would grab a coil we had laying about and use it, now days the coil has to be for that year) Congratulations Paul Teaching these young people how these system work is better then learning it on your own (That would be Me - Good thing I'm Tek Savvy)

[@031stunna]

I got to admit that age range of this group visually looks a little higher than I thought it would be. I was the old guy in my Community College classes at 24. Now I did get to go to one of the nicer facilities in California. I'm actually just happy that you got a group. thank you for everything you do.

[@ScannerDanner]

We had a couple military guys in this group using their GI bill. We also had a few other guys changing trades. I've had students from 18 to late 50s. I always loved having that one older guy who truly wanted to learn. They would always carry and uplift an entire class

[@jimyep9971]

@@ScannerDanner Late 60's n still learning.

[@allennorrisjr7784]

Good video. Hope these technicians are enjoying a productive career.

[@frugalprepper]

Teach them Paul, teach them. We need more good techs!

[@JohnSvensson-j6m]

Another great teaching lesson, thanks. I’ll have to check this on my 2004 Expedition…it has the crank no start problem

[@teresitarumboz6239]

Pico scope at it's best good lesson paul

[@jrneff9773]

happy to see you back in the class after covdi

[@simonilett998]

This was filmed 8yrs ago🤣

[@rodvan-zeller6360]

This pic brings back lots of good memories from when I was a teacher of automotive technology. West Valley Occupational Center 2001-2012, in 2012 all the automotive programs were cut, the cosmetology programs were saved from cuts. The government considered teaching girls how to paint nails more important than teaching men how to repair vehicles.

[@akshonclip]

That’s about the time wood shop and metal shop disappeared as well.

[@jordysandino6577]

Do you have KZbin channel ? So I can watch and learn from you as well ? Thank you so much

[@ocesmekanics3831]

Stupid government

[@throttlebottle5906]

because they want them to be disposable and never repaired... that's great and all, but the price needs to be at disposable levels then 🙄

[@rodvan-zeller6360]

@@jordysandino6577 I don't have a you tube channel.

[@johnchambers12]

You made the right call by the test don’t guess method!!

[@richardcranium5839]

lol "hold that wire!" reminds me back in vo-tech in the "70's we had a ford with duraspark electrinic ignition with an intermittant loaded miss. had it hooked to the sun scope. firing lines looked good everything pointed to a coil or rotor. well pull a coil wire to see how much spark voltage and watch for rotor grounding out. pliers weren't as insulated as i thought. watched the voltage jump to 75,000 volts as i got lit up. questioned the accuacy of the scope after that but i still feel it 50 years later.

[@throttlebottle5906]

lol, dura-no/random-spark. way to go ford, they made the old model A and T buzzer coils look reliable. 🤣

[@Pablo_Automotive]

Nice video with your students Paul.

[@georgedawsonjr450]

Thanks for the video Dan. LOL just kidding Paul. I been waiting a long time for you to put a video out on you tub. And it a good video as always thanks paul.

[@luisgonzalez8423]

Bro yall are Hella lucky to have scanner Danner as a teacher what state is this

[@dariusdonnell3273]

Pennsylvania

[@MikeMcAuliffe-g2f]

The "output" of the coil is the secondary HV winding since that is what the distributor and spark plug needs. The inputs are the DC bias voltage and the control signal from the ECM.

[@ScannerDanner]

When that question came up, my reply was in relation to computer inputs. Which in the case of no spark would be cam and crank signals

[@dustymorningwood1427]

In the 70's I looked at a 428cid that got towed in. Pulled off the big aircleaner that was attached to the 4"dia oil cap Watched throttle squirt in carb, OK. Pulled plug wire and held near end to good ground, shiny oil cap hole. Jumped start relay and KABOOM! Burnt my eye brows and split valve covers near each bolt hole, distorted oil pan. Someone had sprayed either, plus unburnt gas in crankcase. Never lean on fender, path to ground is where????? GM HEI got me.

[@Ironblank1]

Thanks for your comment. I hope more people read it.

[@claudiosantana3320]

Thnks for the shares

[@toutsandler3739]

That guy who said " put your tongue on it" hhhh ... 6:38

[@ScannerDanner]

😆

[@alexspann984]

Thank you for your auto trouble shooting class training. Question: A 2011 SRX Cadillac has slow acceleration. What is the trouble?

[@ScannerDanner]

You got to provide some testing data for me to help.

[@davidmonier3761]

great the commentary and the voice are in French!david de france👍

[@ScannerDanner]

I heard KZbin was adding AI to offer the closed captions in different languages, but you heard it in french?

[@davidmonier3761]

yes I listened to it in French. I wanted to congratulate you on all your videos. bravo!@@ScannerDanner

[@danielmusat597]

Answer to your question: the secondary coil being shorted decreases the inductance overall. That's why the current is smaller and it reaches a maximum faster, hence the plateau. Inductance is the capacity of a wire to bend the magnetic field around it. A shorted loop nearby that wire will "swallow" its potential to do so.

[@ScannerDanner]

I've seen plenty of shorted secondary conditions with no effect on overall primary current. Only the "ramp" of the primary pattern should be affected

[@danielmusat597]

@@ScannerDanner Of course in this case the dwell time is long enough to charge the magnetic material and that's why we have a plateau. The slope of the current charging the inductor goes towards 90° when the inductance decreases. However, the best way to determine the defect is to look at the secondary voltage spike.

[@spelunkerd]

The other factor beyond inductance is resistance at the point of the shorted secondary. Often there's corrosion at that point, and the normally low resistance high inductance secondary is now higher resistance and lower inductance. Lower inductance allows a steeper rise of current, and higher resistance may lead to a lower plateau of current.

[@JD-iu3vi]

Primary side of coil was good but secondary side was open or shorted.

[@jdtv...9134]

I have a 2005 eleantra crank no start/ spark. I don't have a probe but a meter. Cam sensor appears to work. I wonder if the aftermarket alarm system is causing the no spark🤷‍♂️ Any input would be appreciated. Money is a big problem atm.

[@BacoKamal-u3b]

KA24DE , that used for Nissan pickup in The middle East

[@OG1160]

Is there a diode in the control circuit to protect the computer from the voltage spike?

[@ScannerDanner]

Some injector circuits will use a zener diode to dump off the spike, but I dont think you'd want to do that with an ignition coil. As far as what protection circuits are involved with the driver in the ECM, I don't know. That is not my area of expertise

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

200th 👍 here. This old fart has a question. It may not be all that relevant in the scheme of things but I'm curious. Us points and condenser guys know that there has to be capacitance to match with the coil in order to obtain the desired spark time. When you have an ignitor where is the capacitance integrated into the system, the ignitor or the coil?

[@danielmusat597]

That capacitor was used to protect the disruptor, not to oscillate the LC tank circuit.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

@danielmusat597 I do know from 1st hand experience that you could disconnect the capacitor from a working dist and the engine would not run. If your statement is correct the points/disruptor would have to achieve instant failure upon removal of the capacitor. Not likely with points. The capacitance has to be there to work otherwise the discharge would be so fast that the spark would be almost non-existent. If one researches the L and C values they can derive the spark time. You are not oscillating anything. You are performing a controlled discharge.

[@danielmusat597]

@@InsideOfMyOwnMind As far as I understand physics that cap "swallows" the spark that occurs between the contacts of the disruptor oxidizing them. And makes a lot of AM noise in the car radio. The contacts of a disruptor are made of platinum but they oxidize eventually. Every switch, when disconnected, continues to let some current pass through by ionizing the air between its contacts. A cap parallel with the switch prevents this by damping that current internally, protecting the contacts.

[@InsideOfMyOwnMind]

@@danielmusat597 The cap I think you are referring to is a 2nd cap sometimes mounted on the outside of a distributor. Its purpose is as you said, to suppress noise. It is not a functional part of the ignition system. The one that's always there works with the coil to establish spark duration.

[@danielmusat597]

@@InsideOfMyOwnMind OK, that's a thing that I didn't know about. Never seen one. Maybe we talk about different things.

[@jordysandino6577]

I will like to buy this Nissan I have 87 Sentra in the 90s and I will like to have another cuz my was destroyed on accident crash .

[@timowallin8020]

That alternator sounded like its on its last days. Trying to keep battery charged.

[@ScannerDanner]

For sure. Though, with the battery being weak from extended cranking periods (both by the owner and us), that alternator is working hard during this first run period. Agree it doesn't sound good, but this is a huge contributing factor on its noise level

[@orenhicks1051]

I have a 1996 Dodge van no spark to the coil and no fuel what could it be.

[@ScannerDanner]

A ton of things! Do some coil negative control testing like I showed in this video using a test light and report your findings. Then I can help

[@mikesabin8568]

So with the test light control test, why would you go to ground with the test light as opposed to power?

[@freedomlover2808]

To see the light lit solid before it blinks while cranking.

[@mikesabin8568]

@ you didnt understand the question.. Take the light and go on the control side of the wire, if i connect my test light to power when it finds a ground, thats when it lights. So the light should blink when it has control. So why is his test light connected to ground then?

[@freedomlover2808]

@ I did understand your question. If you connect test light to power you won’t see any full time light. The full time power lets him know he’s tapped into the wire correctly. It’s just more convenient.

[@mikesabin8568]

@ ok, so you can do it with power or ground, but ground is better so you can see light entire time?

[@freedomlover2808]

@ Yeah you would still get a blinking light on power when the coil is firing. Ground is arguably safer though because your test light could in theory accidentally touch an electronic device and fry it while the coil is firing

[@markk7133]

Hey, why'd you delete my Snapon ignition paddle comment? It was inspired by Danner.

[@ScannerDanner]

I didn't delete anything. If you put a link in, KZbin usually puts those as spam

[@markk7133]

@ScannerDanner :)

[@jrneff9773]

its under the cap the ring not the cap