Sword Fight Review: The Legend of Zorro (2005)

[@MultiNonymous]

It seems that Zorro forgot the one thing he knew about sword-fighting at the start of the previous film: "The pointy end goes into the other man".

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

"Ahh, I see, your plan was to dodge bullets and then fall of the train." I think we all need more dry, sarcastic Matt Easton lines in our lives.

[@Sebastian_Gecko]

yt.com/lindybeige there ya go.

[@hart-of-gold]

On a side note, Yes steam locomotives were often fueled with wood, and it is the right style to use that fuel. The narrow boiler, high steam domes and large funnel are very different to the broad boiler less pronounced steam intake and small funnel of a British coal-burning loco.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Very interesting, thanks.

[@TheCoffeehound]

Also, since coal would have needed to be shipped from far away, and wood was easy to source locally, it makes more sense to use it as fuel, especially in remote areas.

[@kenibnanak5554]

In that part of the world, coal burners were slow to arrive. Wood burners predominated in Mexico till about 1910 or so.

[@Myzelfa]

How odd to think they would get that right and so much of the fighting is wrong.

[@MrMonkeybat]

Wood burning locos have a distinctive look which has become part of the wild west theme.

[@mikaluostarinen4858]

C'mon Matt, it would be very time consuming to carve a Z with thrusts.

[@chabis]

Mika Luostarinen It would be kind of sadistic to do it that way, too. And masochistic the same time.

[@xxfalconarasxx5659]

Matt already stated that a rapier could cut, so no, Zoro does not have to carve a Z with thrusts. However, a Rapier is not very well "specialized" for cutting, and by using it like a sabre, the two characters are not utilizing their weapons at their max potential.

[@violacrb]

But much more colourful

[@Linkfanoftheyear]

@xxFalconArasxx woosh

[@beardedbjorn5520]

So old mate had a knife the whole time they were punching each other on the locomotive, but preferred to soften up his opponent by letting him punch him in the face repeatedly? Sounds legit

[@pseudomonad]

"…or even kill them quite badly"

[@sagebauer1077]

I'm not sure how it would translate into good video content, but have you ever thought of reviewing a fictional swordfight from a book? It would be interesting to see what you could analyze from a written description!

[@giboranak]

"kill them quite badly" 3:07 best line ever.

[@djcorner7747]

I was hoping at some point Matt would say, "The original film with Hopkins had at least some decent thrusting attacks in the various sword fights," or words to that effect. I enjoyed the movies but personally thought the sword scenes in the first film, though still "Hollywood-ish" were better. Thanks for all the great videos, sir.

[@Zagardal]

Completely agree. I guess the point of the movie was to show a transition to a more flamboyant style between generations, so Hopkins' fights looked much more realistic, or as much as they could given the style of the movie, than the ones with Banderas.

[@dimitrizaitsew1988]

Matt will never be a movie superhero - he can neither fight with a rapier properly, nor to create super plans that involve falling off the train.

[@bilibiliism]

Valera Valerovich he is a bald Brit, he is destined to become a villain.

[@thelegendaryklobb2879]

Also he would run his opponent through in a few moves, that's not good for an action movie where final fights are expected to last at least 20 minutes. Too much realism...

[@Yves998]

Now all that he need to ruin the world is buy a Jaguar or Maserati.

[@jaelee671]

I'd really like to see your review of last battle from the Spanish movie Alatriste.

[@cheesepie72]

Or any of the duels

[@ArthurHerbst]

Yes, please!

[@Kwijiboz]

Yes please!! Specially the duels!!

[@Kwijiboz]

I just remembered that Bob Anderson was the choreographer of the duels in that movie

[@lichtetred]

Whole film is on youtube, so Matt is all set to go: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYmQqmtto9KNpMU

[@oteliogarcia1562]

Mask of Zorro should have been the first movie to review. Captain Love used a saber there, right in Matt's wheelhouse. And Catherine Zeta Jones defined "gorgeous" in that movie.

[@joelmuller358]

I am looking forward to your upcoming video discussing the pros and cons of using a bottle of nitroglycerin as a weapon in close combat.

[@shaggyman5811]

I'd like to see an analysis of Jason vs the skeletons in Jason and the argonauts for a lol. And how the golden goat was able to buff his skillz

[@lisahoffmanwagner3032]

Thank you for another entertaining and fascinating review, Matt. I, too, hope you will be Matt Easton next time. :)

[@adventuresinhistoryland5501]

As far as I remember, Bob Anderson did the fight choreography for these movies. His style is typified by those fast, neat exchanges between the blades and very cinematic and intricate blade-work without any great attention to the Spanish school which would have been what Zorro had learned. Yet note he comes en Garde with his point extended, and though a Spaniard would preferably point it at an opponents eyes, you can see Rufus comes en Garde with a bent arm, like the French. What we can notice is that Bob's style was by and large taken from his background as an Olympic style fencer , rather than a historical one, and if I may be so bold, I'd say Zorro's sword is much closer to a Spadroon or smallsword. Though traditionally he used a Rapier, which for the mid 1800's was a terribly outdated weapon. So why Rufus is using one (two?) is anyone's guess.

[@Blokewood3]

Great as always Matt. I'm curious what you would think about the fight from the 1952 Prisoner of Zenda. Although it uses a lot of the classic Hollywood moves, they actually are using sabers! And the 1938 Adventures of Robin Hood uses the corps a corps move a bit more reasonably when Guy of Gisborne uses the opportunity to go for his dagger.

[@matthewmuir8884]

2:23 I think you'll really enjoy the fight in episode 4 of the Castlevania Netflix series. In that fight, the two people fighting end up in a close bind, and one of them actually does something (knee to the groin followed by a headbutt).

[@Knight_Astolfo]

Thank you for elucidating the Case of Rapiers! I had always thought that it was a fantasy trope.

[@NoeLPZC]

I love how when Zorro is disarmed on the front of the train he decides to get into a fist fight despite very clearly having a dagger on his belt.

[@raging_n00b50]

Top notch review as always Matt. I’m surprised you didn’t make mention when the villain blocks Zoro’s arm to counter a strike, when they’re in the passenger car. Is that a viable? “Chairs make great self defense weapons.” 👍🏻#chairdefense

[@eduardosp2024]

Please do a video on the original Mask of Zorro Matt. A lot of the same criticisms will apply I'm sure, but the choreography seems far better and there are interesting scenes where De La Vega (Hopkins) is instructing Alejandro (Banderas), and there is a more creative array of parries, disarms, fights against multiple opponents, etc. (I think it's also a far better movie and one close to my heart. Would greatly appreciate your insights.)

[@jamesoblivion]

I'd love to see you review the Power/Rathbone duel from The Mark of Zorro (1940).

[@Robin0Blackett]

Maybe you could review the 1957 Zorro with Guy Williams? I was told that he was pretty good, but I'd like to know your opinion.

[@garreswe]

Let's hope Matt will be himself next time too :)

[@Condottier]

Just looking for someone else who had grasped that.

[@spudren-elderscrolls-fallo7119]

I love these, I am just getting into medieval things. Also, could u do the princess bride fight review?

[@mallardtheduck406]

Hey Matt review the old 1989-'90's Family channel Zorro with Duncan Regehr. That would be a real treat!"!!

[@ConradsStudio]

Hey Matt, perhaps these movie fights benefit from using artificially short swords (like 2 ft) with a mocap marker on the end then CG the rest of the blade in? They could avoid the actors hurting each other (frowned on--go fig) and get the proximity at the same time?

[@StutleyConstable]

I'm not a big Zorro fan, but in defense of the movie I have to say it was meant for family viewing marketing primarily to young teens and children. As for wood vs coal for fuel on the train, this makes sense in pre-Civil War California. Much easier to pay a bunch of workers to cut wood and pile it than to arrange for coal reserves to be hauled in from the eastern states. There were much more profitable cargos to carry on the trains. Overall a good video Matt.

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

could you do a video on the double rapier thing? I would be very interested in seeing how that is used and how common that would be. Ive also literally never heard of this thing before.

[@MaLoDe1975]

Do el cid with charlton heston. There is an awesome combat with lances, swords and saddles!

[@emarsk77]

2:40 where the hell is he aiming at?

[@robertpatter5509]

Matt Easton, Can you review Hook with Robin Williams? Particularly the scene with Rufio. Interesting sword Hook uses

[@SjorPlays]

I think the video would be better if you either only played the film clips back once or muted them, because it gets a bit annoying to listen to (especially in slow motion), at least if it's repeated.

[@matth1589]

If you haven't already, could you take a look at Alatriste. I'm curious to hear you analysis of the duels with Malatesta.

[@noraye2500]

Matt, you need to do the first movie, _The Mask of Zorro._ Much better movie and the sword fights are much better.

[@sushanalone]

By the Gods of Olympus, Gilgamesh and the 100 million inside the holy cow, Lets hope next time it isn't Patt Westen , the Matt Easten's Katana Supremacist Alterego who despises Context!

[@Alvarin_IL]

Matt, will you do fight choreography review of Black Knight fight in the Quest for the Holy Grail?

[@FlubbersQuid]

Isn't one of the main things with the Zorro character that he fights with the intent to disarm and discourage his opponents rather than inflicting injury. This is why he typically signs only the clothes and not the skin.

[@arbhall7572]

Yeah its flashy and fun, but total crap and I love it. It does make me wonder what your thoughts are on the fight scene at the end of The Count of Monte Cristo remake from 2002? In particular the part where Edmond blocks a sword cut (again with a rapier or small sword :) with the flat of his boot. I really loved that part of that scene as once upon a time shoes were quite well made,with thick leather. I love this sort of video Matt, thank you for making them for us. I hope you take a look at the movie, but its your time you are donating to us, so I understand if youd rather not. Have a good one man.

[@mallardtheduck406]

I watched that the other night, really good movie!"!

[@Sydpart2]

I was really hoping you'd talk about how possible it would actually be to cut a Z into just the clothing of an opponent without getting deeper into the skin.

[@Trash0815]

Quite like those reviews, may I suggest a review of the final battle in polanskies "MacBeth" which looks like they raided an english museum, and the final battle (1on1 Thurman vs. Lucy Liu) in "Kill Bill vol. 1" both are not super realistic but quite unusual for hollywood.

[@RobKinneySouthpaw]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "traditional" Hollywood rapier work was based on an old choreographer's experience with sabre, biasing toward cuts.nthat and cuts might look more."powerful", even if they are suboptimal with the weapon in question.

[@kidthorazine]

It also helps that a cut oriented style allows for a lot more Flynning, which lets you draw the fight out in a more believable (to the average audience member) way.

[@svovy5358]

i think there's a connection between "natural thrusters" as it were, and people that train unarmed martial arts or sports like boxing. boxing taught me to space with jab and punish with a cross and as a result in my reflex is the stab if my opponent is breaking my space or if is see a brief opening.

[@alexanerose4820]

Isn't Destreza (which I'm presuming Zorro uses)more on slahing then the Italian school which focuses on mostly thrusts?

[@badpossum440]

Killed quite badly?? i would say so. 3.07 When they were on the cow catcher ,wasn't the train going backwards or was that an illusion??

[@jagerbradley]

What did you mean, in the beginning, with the elbow move being done poorly? Looked good to me

[@biohazard724]

It was stylish and cinematic, yes but in a real duel it's poor technique and in all likelihood would get you stabbed in the kidney.

[@jagerbradley]

Well, that goes for all fights in Hollywood really. He mentioned something about a camera trick to manipulate perceived distance; to sell the move. But it looked pretty legit to me. They both took steps towards each other, right?

[@scholagladiatoria]

Two main issues with it: 1) the opponent was too far away to hit with an elbow, 2) after hitting him with his elbow, Zorro just stood there with his back to the opponent posing for the camera.

[@jagerbradley]

I've rewatched that part over and over again, and I just don't see it lol

[@beardedbjorn5520]

Because he could have easily done a draw cut to the neck and ended it right there

[@kungfujoe2136]

question if you get close (to close ) to someone while you are using a rapier can you trust? (and is it still efective?) perhaps an idea for a vide the effective ranges of every weapon?

[@inisipisTV]

kungfujoe - If too close, one can use a dagger with the left hand.

[@GalanisEucharthus]

If you haven't already, could you do a fight review of the sword fights of The Count of Monte Cristo, the 2002 film?

[@HebaruSan]

Matt, why did you not tell us about "case of rapiers" earlier? That is the coolest thing I have ever heard. And of course googling it leads to a video by AHF.

[@HeadCannonPrime]

Could you review the fights from "The Count of Monte Cristo". IIRC They were using rapiers and it seemed pretty good at the time. (20 some years ago).

[@sebastianmoya5790]

would you please make a video about the most realistic sword fights in Hollywood. It seems that they make the same mistakes all the time, but there must be at least one film with a descent sword fight. Love your channel!

[@the_REAL_Pearl_]

How would you rate the training scene from the first movie The Mask of Zorro?

[@perfectibility999]

Many U.S. steam locomotives in the 19th century did use wood to produce the steam. Forests were more abundant in the U.S. than in Europe and so wood was a more common fuel during the Industrial Revolution here. However, coal was also used, and came to be used more commonly for steam locomotives in the later 19th century and the 20th century. The U.S. was chopping down forests very rapidly at that time and thus the environmental movement, Teddy Roosevelt's declaration of the National Park system etc.

[@matusfekete6503]

I just saw on TV the Three Musketeers (from 1973, the best version) and in my amateur view the fight looked quite good - rapiers used mostly for thrusting, cuts were used mostly as distraction or against environment to get edge and there was lot of punching and kicking involved in duels. I lived under impression, that old movies had crappy fights, but this one probably had some good fencing advisers.

[@sharkinahat]

Please do a review of the fights from the first The Three Musketeers movie from 1948.

[@Cthippo1]

Well, actually Matt... Wood fired locomotives were quite common in this time and area. Coal is not common in the Southwestern US / Northern Mexico area and so wood was commonly used. It wasn't until longer distance travel became common that it became economical to ship coal for fuel to these areas, by which time the 4-4-0 type locomotives were long out of service.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Interesting!

[@cyanidelizards]

Thank you sir, this absurd slash choreography tarnished the lethality of the rapier, as well as forestalled any Antonio Banderas Zorro trilogy topper, which we the Californian People so rightfully deserve.

[@xlstaticpandalx]

For stage combat it is critical that swordsmen be out of distance. While it's not accurate is for the safety of stunt doubles and actors. Especially because if actors get injured the guy doing the choreography gets the axe.

[@victorherrerawitzel4446]

Please make a fight review of the movie "Alatriste", its basically a movie about the late spanish empire and the last days of the spanish Tercios. For all of you guys please take a look at it.

[@mallardtheduck406]

Great Movie, I watch it a lot.

[@SwordsmanMercenary]

Well to be fair the gun was a blunderbuss, as in a muzzleloader, that would take to long to reload. Fight scene requests: "Ladyhawke" The church fight. "Robin Hood Prince of thieves" Robin vs the Sheriff

[@komreed]

XD omg commentary is freaking golden thanks matt

[@junichiroyamashita]

When you said he used his rapier like a backsword what do you meant? Which movements are typical of a backsword?

[@callard2]

Junichiro Yamashita cutting a lot. Which he says saber at the end is most like the fighting style.

[@junichiroyamashita]

callard2 yeah but there is difference between a backsword and a saber ,they may share some techniques but i wanted to know the backsword exclusive ones

[@alfreedom3971]

could you review the original: Cyrano de Bergerac?

[@DirtyHairy1]

Just noticed that CZJ can overextend the forearm above 180° to the upper arm. I always cringe when I see that :P

[@NoeLPZC]

Most girls can do that - it's why female archers have to wear their arm guards higher up the arm. I mean, it's bad swordplay, but being able to extend your arm beyond 180 is hardly a CZJ thing and is incredibly common.

[@romanlegionhare2262]

Speaking of rapiers, have you ever seen the film "The Seahawk" with Errol Flynn? The sword fight at the end is actually decent, a lot more thrusting than slashing.

[@Zagardal]

The fencing in the Mark of Zorro, the movie from the 40s, is so much better, it's ridiculous when you compare it to this. The duel between Diego and the captain is superb. A review might not be called for, but holy hell, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

[@jdzencelowcz]

I'd love to hear Matt's take on the fights in Virgin Territory.

[@angusguitarhero]

Nice movie fight review (as always) but why are you showing the movie scenes in a smaller frame over this background picture? It is a little irritating.

[@scholagladiatoria]

It was to try and avoid a copyright claim. In the end it didn't matter, as the copyright claim was filed and upheld, and this video was demonetised.

[@angusguitarhero]

ok that's a point. But from a viewers point of view it's nicer to see it in full screen. Anyway I very much like your movie ficht reviews and even if don't know the movie they're very interesting from a HEMA point of view as well as a cinematographic point of view.

[@demopem]

I haven't checked the exact time here, but people who to "reaction videos" (of movies and TV series) claim that there's some rule or agreement for "fair use" of up to 10 minutes of footage. (For review purposes and the like.) Some even make a very explicit statement with a comment of the time used in the description, and sometimes even a timer on the screen. Perhaps it helps if you keep it under that limit?

[@Rodiacreed]

I remember watching this movie in cinema. I was a big fan of Zorro as a kid. I was 10 back then. Even cosplayed as him.

[@AgamemnonTWC]

Rodiacreed Me too man, on all accounts. Though I was 9.

[@inregionecaecorum]

And he never loses his hat? Is it glued on?

[@laionidas7614]

I'm so bothered by the fact that the clamshell guards on Zorro's sword are in mirror position to how I'd expect them to be. Am I alone on this one? Zorro's preference for cuts can be explained though, if we accept that his sword is not some odd 18th century Rapier, but rather an awkward Spadroon.

[@Murdo2112]

Do the one with the two lasses from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Although, I suppose you'll only try and tell us that people can't really fly.

[@georgealnouri3638]

i think the kick to the groin by Zeta Jones is the most accurate thing in this fight XDD of course with the addition of good ol' honest chopping XDD

[@todabrilla]

Weird. I had thought that they were using variants of 19th century small swords rather than rapiers.

[@AUTOBOTGJB1997]

Please review Jack vs Barbossa from the first Pirates movie.

[@lucbourhis3142]

Wonder what you would have to say about the famous Princess Bride duel! Same pointy style but better in my uneducated opinion…

[@schwanzuslongus9424]

Not the point of the video, but damn Catherine Zeta Jones..... everytime I see her I just think what a woman!

[@hjorturerlend]

Charming...

[@schwanzuslongus9424]

Ex Nihilo Dafuq man

[@davidribeiro1064]

WTF! That's... Incredibly specific...

[@sugarnads]

Shes stunning

[@Nebula_Ultra]

you obviously havent seen her revently

[@noneofyerbisness8702]

6:18 want to see you review the fight between Anakin and Obi-wan, now.

[@tonyparadiso5876]

Please review Alatriste I would really like your thoughts

[@cerealkiller7143]

Very nice video. Could you please review the sword fight scene in The Phantom of the Opera.

[@robertsully9351]

the bbc programme gunpowder had a sword fight in part 3 which in my humble opinion is up there for one of the worst i've seen in a while. Would make a good video.

[@cadmaniak]

I love how Matt calls him rufus Sewell (in full!) each time rather than his character name :)

[@scholagladiatoria]

I want to help his career. I know he'll be grateful.

[@LutzDerLurch]

I love him in "Charles II: The Power and the Passion". I believe it contains fencing scene(s) as well, maybe review it as well?

[@davidbriggs264]

I have been Matt Easton. You're changing your name???

[@neriumsuitedher]

Matt Easton, the snarky sports (OK, movie fight really) commentator? Yes! More please!

[@AgamemnonTWC]

A point about your editing Matt: you're doing a good job at least to this layman, HOWEVER, when you slow down footage, please remove the audio. The slowed down, distorted audio from these clips was extremely distracting while you talked, especially as you had the video looping. I think if it was silent, this wouldn't be an issue. Additionally, with the video only taking up a small part of the screen as it is here, it's much harder to see what you're talking about. If you're going to do it this way instead of standing in front of your TV has you have in the past, I'd recommend making the video clips nearly full screen size. Honestly, I preferred the old formatting for fight talks. However, it's really cool that you're getting into editing more. Just some suggestions here.

[@lancepabon]

Have you seen that old movie. Scaramuge, it's supposed to have the longest sword figth coreography of anytime in Hollywood...

[@kungfujoe2136]

fighting out of effective range can be a real combat tactic (annoy someone into gatting mad, trying to get a sens of ppl's strenths /weeknesses etc)

[@scholagladiatoria]

A skilled opponent should pretty much ignore attacks that have no threat because they are too far away to do any harm.

[@kungfujoe2136]

good to know and still makes it a better move than just rushing in right?

[@Kobolds_in_a_trenchcoat]

Perhaps zoro was not initially going to kill his opponent? I'm not that familiar with zorro as a character and have never seen the movie.

[@ktoth29]

Matt, I was showing my blackfencer 1796 infantry saber to a stunt coordinator I know, and he instructed me that the purpose of the curve was to aid in the cavalry charge, which he demonstrated with a high prime as if it were a Patton saber... now I know him to be full of shit but this is not a man you correct even to tell him that the sky is blue or that his fly is down. But for my own piece of mind, can you ( or anyone else) confirm that 1. an infantry saber is significantly smaller than a cavalry saber 2. A cavalry saber would only be used by light cavalry 3. Light cavalry were not involved in charges. 4. Heavy cavalry would have used an Estoc, Koncierz, or Pallasch in a charge 5. A thrust from horseback with a curved saber is best done with the knuckles up so that you don't kill your horse and can pull it out of the enemy as you ride by.

[@tonyhoodlass1846]

This is Good, i have a Naval officer's dress sword 1927 Pattern i think. I amm a Martial Artist my Black belt is for Shotokan Karate but my close friend is Cynthia Rothrock a lovely lady with 7 Black belt's including an 8th dan/degree 😊😊😊😊😊

[@XiahouDun1225]

Wasn't Destreza cut oriented?

[@ironpirate8]

Good use of the cloak at the end there!

[@MarcRitzMD]

Matt, you said that humans only have one brain. Which reminded me of a phenomenon called "split brain". You should definitely just put that term into a Google search. Some people are born without a corpus callosum and some have it removed surgically. That one is the bridge for the hemispheres and only connection point. For example, removal helps those with epilepsy. We have found out that these two hemispheres begin to act independently. They have independent fields of vision and don't share that information with one another and some are able to write different things with each hand simultaneously. In that sense, the two hands really have their own brain. Some suggest that our brains are naturally split to begin with and that the right hemisphere simply assumes a dismissive role

[@jakubfabisiak9810]

As usual - repeating my request to do a review of the fight in The Three Musketeers (1973) with Michael York (the fight at the monastery).

[@ChaoticNarrative]

I honestly get the impression from both the Guard and Blade shape of Zorro's sword that it's a Spadroon, perhaps.

[@mallardtheduck406]

I had the Marto replica.. it is basically a shortened rapier blade....a flattened edge tapering to a diamond blade edge. I believe the blade was either 32" or 34". The sword was based on an actual sword, a German hangar... very extremely similar.

[@ChaoticNarrative]

Hangers have a lot of interesting designs, Singleton in Black Sails had a Hanger, his had a double crown guard like some Smallswords and most spadroons.

[@antivalidisme5669]

"Wanna dance baby?" 1:28 - 2:22 Oh no cross-shape Magic Chinese rapierish thingies, come on WASP cheater! 4:00 Seems like our hero has some heavy memory issues, sometimes looking for the other guy in the chimney - Xmas day? - or under train wheels while he is in front of him, but I guess - I could be wrong - that explosive Cognac abuse may heavily damage your brain, especially under California sun. "Darling I think I stabbed the ceiling once again." "You didn't pierce a light?" "No no only some cutlasses impacts on the framework." "Good." Everyday life.

[@gasa5251]

You didnt really cut a long story very short, yeah not a brillant sword fight. Would love to hear you talk about some of the fights in Richard Lesters "the three Musketeers" - might be a bit comedic (is that a word?) but they use cloaks, dueling daggers and what ever .. so could be interesting

[@christosvoskresye]

Seriously, Matt, you need to analyze the fighting styles in Punch and Judy.

[@blackpowderkun]

Is their a Eurupean manual that teaches terrain based fighting, eastern martial arts already have that

[@scholagladiatoria]

Is there an Eastern treatise teaching it? Does it say "don't trip over things"? :-)

[@blackpowderkun]

scholagladiatoria it's more of actuall practice on terrain with footwork and movement like indian and shaolin kzbin.info/www/bejne/fX_bmYODqtitr80

[@scholagladiatoria]

A lot of European martial arts were taught outside in the open, so I guess they probably just dealt with it all the time and didn't think too much about it as a separate thing.