SciShow GOT IT WRONG! Reply to The "Lost" Recipe for Damascus Steel, Feat, IPostSwords

Be sure to check out this video's sponsor, Campfire Blaze to take your worldbuilding to the next level: www.campfireblaze.com/?...
SciShow's recent video on Damascus steel gets a lot of fact wrong, and sometimes directly misrepresents the past, and this video is a collaborative effort in setting the record straight, with the help of IPostSwords:
/ ipostswords
SciShow's video on Damascus steel: • Video
Come check out my new channel GAME KNIGHTS: / @knightswatch
If you like the content and want to support the channel, you're welcome to do so through patreon or subscribe star:
/ shadiversity
www.subscribestar.com/shadive...
Awesome Shirts and chainmail print clothing: teespring.com/en-GB/stores/sh...
My novel, Shadow of the Conqueror Audio Book affiliate links:
US: www.audible.com/shadbrooks
UK: www.audible.co.uk/shadbrooks
CA: www.audible.ca/shadbrooks
AU: www.audible.com.au/shadbrooks
Shadow of the Conqueror Graphic Novel Pre-Launch page: www.indiegogo.com/projects/sh...
Ebook, Paperback and Hardcover available from most major book retailers, here are a few of the main ones:
Amazon affiliate link (be sure to navigate to your country's amazon site):
amzn.to/2XErUaR
Barnes and Noble:
www.barnesandnoble.com/w/shad...
Kobo:
www.kobo.com/au/en/ebook/shad...
Community run discord server: / discord
My official website: www.shadmbrooks.com/
Sources:
1998 foundational paper, also contains the measures of P and S levels in antiques: www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...
Ethnographic accounts (Massalski, Coomaraswamys, Zosimos): www.academia.edu/34934336/Cru...
Modern reproduction technique of crucible steel in the Persian style: www.researchgate.net/publicat...
The oldest crucible steel ever found, 6th to 3rd century BC: onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/a...
2018 Paper that details how solidification structures form and how they determine cementite raft formation and spacing: link.springer.com/article/10....
The Technology of Ancient and Medieval Directly Reduced Phosphoric Iron: bradscholars.brad.ac.uk/handl...
From the Soil to the Iron Product - the Technology of Medieval Iron Smelting: exarc.net/issue-2014-2/at/soi...
Mike Loads documentary on Wootz Damascus: • The Secrets of Wootz D...
From Bloomery Furnace to Blast Furnace: www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/...
Making Steel in the middle ages: caidwiki.org/images/2017_Topic...
Extra sources online links unavailable:
Early papers by Sherby and Wadsworth that helped pave the way for the field of research:
-Oleg D. Sherby: "Damascus Steel Rediscovered?" Trans. ISIJ, 19(7)1979 p. 381--390. 1980
-J. Wadsworth and OD. Sherby, “On the Bulat - Damascus Steels Revisited”, Progress in Materials Science. 25 1980 p. 35 - 68 1983
Oleg D. Sherby and Jeffrey Wadsworth: "Damascus Steels -- Myths, Magic and Metallurgy", The Stanford Engineer, Fall/Winter 1983-84, p. 27 - 37.
-J. Wadsworth and O.D. Sherby, "Damascus Steel Making", Science , 216 1983, p. 328-330. 1985
-Oleg D. Sherby, T. Oyama, Kum D. M., B. Walser, and J. Wadsworth: "Ultrahigh Carbon Steels". J. Metals, 37(6) 1985 p. 50 - 56.
-Oleg D. Sherby and Jeffrey Wadsworth: "Damascus Steel", Scientific American, 252(2) 1985 p. 112 -120.key

[@IPostSwords]

Wait, that collaborator looks familiar.

[@shadiversity]

Indeed it does ^_^ Such great fun working with you mate, thanks heaps for the collaboration!

[@pyeitme508]

@@shadiversity lol

[@matchesburn]

"IPostSwords" Username checks out. He does, indeed, post swords.

[@LangstonDev]

@@matchesburn Would've been disappointing if he only posted spaghetti and blankets... (a little Mitch Hedberg reference for you).

[@Meet_The_Pyro]

A real IPS :o

[@dragoneye6229]

Legend has it that if you say something stupidly incorrect about the medieval period three times into a mirror Shad will appear and give you an hour long lecture.

[@yog-thaquasleeperofrlyeh2816]

Doesn’t sound like a bad way to spend my evening at all.

[@andrewchapman2039]

Brb gonna go talk about fire arrows.

[@SerenityPrim3]

I will test this tonight, thank you

[@aleisterlavey9716]

Doesn't work. I said "double bladed axes were the vikings favorite weapon" and the only one appearing in the Mirror was Skallagrim facepalming.

[@liam3044]

I call bull,tried saying crusaders are the best three times. All I got was a Bible in Latin and a sick tunic.

[@Aikano9]

“Most swords would be average quality.” yes, that is indeed how the concept of average works.

[@jwrine3631]

Ya done made me laugh 😂 have a like my dude!

[@Uncephalized]

Nah, could be a bimodal quality distribution. ;-)

[@inthefade]

Most swords could be exceptional quality, but the few stinkers are so bad that they bring down the average.

[@s-kazi940]

@@inthefade You're right.

[@mauirandall8176]

@@Uncephalized exactly what I was thinking

[@nfwrambo]

The original video is no longer up, shad *literally* destroyed it with facts and logic

[@flamingtoaster6989]

I saw that video, I really think they were trying to shit on Europeans. This is typical of our current age

[@AshleyWilliamsN7]

@@flamingtoaster6989 That's exactly what it was. It's trendy to put down European history because "colonialism bad".

[@tito3640]

@@flamingtoaster6989 based

[@tito3640]

@@AshleyWilliamsN7 based

[@Trooper_No.2102]

@@flamingtoaster6989 Based

[@wolfancap6897]

SciShow: "Medieval European blacksmiths didn't understand how to regulate carbon content on the steel" Shad: "Whomst've awakened the ancient one"

[@Rurik_Luci]

I didn't know 36 was so old

[@Simon-ho6ly]

The logic gap for so many of there arguements people dont get the difference between "didnt know *how* to do something" and "dont understand *why* something works" you can understand doing X process gives Y result by trial, error and repetition... understanding why the action gives a result is a whole other matter and mostly irrelevant in most cases, if a process gives a result such as a better steel for blade making then they would do that process more.. the fact that we now know its to do with carbon content for example... cool but knowing that doesnt change things really

[@Alex-dh2cx]

I love my language but we really need to chill on the apostrophes. They've been out of hand for centuries. Once we got to America it only got worse. Maybe it's a measure of the amount of water between Europe and an Englishman. It's why American English went off the rails, and Australia has gone even further. Case in point, my favorite word in English: y'all'd've instead of "you all would have"

[@thegeneralissimo470]

This made me laugh more than it should have.

[@lennysmileyface]

@@Alex-dh2cx Whomst've is just a meme lol no one actually uses it.

[@Adam_okaay]

Blacksmiths in 1899- forging Wootz Damascus Swords Same Blacksmiths in 1900- HOW DOES ONE CRAFT SUCH SORCERY?!?!?!?!!!!?

[@armageddonsengineer3182]

lol! The dividing line is probably between 1940-1970 depending on which country you're in. When it's easier to order a load of billets than scavenge your own scrap, new native metals, and forge your own steel, special techniques fade away quick. Other things like wrought iron, which were part of the old steel manufacturing waste stream, forging silicon rich slag into pig iron, dried up. But.. There's decades worth of hobbyist scrap wrought iron sitting in piles here and there, so no real financial demand to make new wrought iron. Similar story with Damascus steel, loads and loads of professional books on in from the 1800s, 1900s, but, not many people were willing to work it. Easier to get a common production steel, then acid etch it to look like Damascus.

[@Glimmlampe1982]

That must have been a hell of a new years party at the blacksmith guild i guess 😁

[@dannyn6558]

Damascus steel nowadays is reverse engineered from what we know are in old wootz Damascus steel. You still have to watch out for knockoffs using Damascus etched blades.

[@IPostSwords]

It actually goes a tiny bit into the 1900s - in 1904 A. Coomaraswamy documented crucible steel production in Mawalgaha

[@jamesm1]

@@armageddonsengineer3182 Exactly. From the depression through the 1960s, Blacksmithing kind of almost died in the US. My father back in the 80s was an apprentice for one of the best blacksmiths from the first generation of resurgence that started to rebuild the profession back almost from scratch. Today my father is a master of steel and bronze work and has trained many apprentices of his own.

[@Tennouseijin]

A medieval soldier comes to a blacksmith: "Hey dude, those swords are soooo expensive, can you cut some corners to make it cheaper?" Scientists 1000 years later: *wondering why really poor quality steel coexisted with really high quality steel. Didn't the blacksmiths know how to get consistent results?*

[@john-paulsilke893]

The Castilian may literally have ordered 100 high quality spears for men at arms and the like and another 500 lower quality for levy troops and a further 100 poor quality for stores because he didn’t have the budget for 700 high quality swords and otherwise for the same budget could only afford 200 high quality weapons.

[@MoltenMouseMetal]

You could experience the same today if Aliens invaded and wondered why Chinesium-quality steel was so inferior to regulated tool-steels.

[@m0nkEz]

I think it would probably be more like: Medieval levy: hey, can you make me a sword? Blacksmith: wtf, I make plows? Why would I know how to make a sword? Levy: Yeah, but I mean that guy knows how to make swords, and he charges way more than I can afford.

[@skeleletonbones4847]

I figured it went more like "Ah shit, kinda skuffed this one, well whatever they won't know the difference."

[@villeniemi7754]

Absolutely. Realistically if you are not a filthy rich noble after bragging rights, you want the cheapest weapon that does the job and you do not need great steel to kill a man. This is even more true if you are equipping an actual army. The Romans probably had access to better steel from India. They could have imported or reverse engineered that at great expense and equipped their legions with it, also at great great cost. But the resulting vastly more expensive legions would not really have been any better at their job. So most historical weapons that survive are nowhere near best quality metal or even craftmanship, because vast majority of weapons that get manufactured aren't. This actually holds even to guns. Most weapons that survive from WW1 or WW2 do not have great materials or manufacturing. Oddly enough the weapons that were manufactured in large quantities tend to be ones that used cheapest materials that do the job with least amount of labor or skill to manufacture required. Because it is not just a question of not wasting money. Warfare is generally time-sensitive (having weapons available after the decisive battle is fairly pointless) and pretty much every war participant ever was operating under strict and absolute resource constraints. So a good military weapon is one that can be manufactured fast and cheap without special skills, tools or materials. Because those are the ones you can have when you need them. You can even see these concerns with jet fighters, battleships or tanks.

[@Rohnon]

I love how people think that europeans in the middleages didn't know shit about smithing and produced the worst swords, but at the same time plate armour is a european invention, and probably the height of what medieval smithing can achieve.

[@staringgasmask]

Not to mention Europeans didn't exactly forget about all the shit the Roman Empire had been developing. It's not like they lacked ingenuity, either, they improved roman siege machines and made better shields and armor, much more adapted to the new times and type of warfare. They knew exactly what they were doing and adapted to change. Not sure why they get so much hate

[@nicreven]

@@staringgasmask people in the past weren't dumber nor more uncivilised than we are today; and it's annoying that that's constantly misunderstood

[@ninj-as7710]

@@staringgasmask In the renaissance era, a good part of the intellectual elite started "bashing" their ancestors' era to look even more civilised. They wanted to contrast themselves ("sophisticated, enlightened") to the people of the medieval era ("dumb, uncivilised").

[@kyriss12]

not just smithing but mechanical and technical aspects as well. people get so focused on the products of a civilization they tend to overlook the industrialization and productive capabilities of said civilization. for example, one civilization might have artistic master who can produce one or two veritable masterpieces a year that can outclass anything else in the world, but if their neighbor can hammer out several pieces of mediocre product in a month that in itself is a much greater feat. And Europe during the high Middle Ages had something called a water forge which used a series of water wheels to power a massive blast furnace capable of reaching higher heat and pumping out more steel than a conventional hand cranked bellows. And a manufacturing plant full of trip hammers that allowed a couple of black smiths with several apprentices to do the work of 50 old style smiths.

[@JoshuaBlackmon-pf6xf]

Beware of the cannon . Because that things also a beast

[@omegaconstruct3544]

"We need to stop mythologizing the past in such a way that we can't look at it critically." This is lowkey one of the most important things Shad says in this video. A lot of content creators in this space should take heed of that message.

[@1980JPA]

Hell, I live in the southern U.S. and around here this point needs to be preached from the mountaintops

[@rvawildcardwolf2843]

@@1980JPA Virginia here. The lost cause stuff acts like the confederacy was a golden era of high ideals and art and stuff and ignores it was just a 5 year war that wrecked our shit, got our boys killed, devastated our economy worse than just ending chattel slavery, and accomplished nothing!

[@1980JPA]

@@rvawildcardwolf2843 EXACTLY 💯 I'm in Georgia, so you could imagine the ignorance that gets spewed around here about some sort of "pride" about that era.

[@crawlingchaos2811]

@@1980JPA tbh many group around the world tend to do this when a war is involved, especially since it was at the time technically a "foreign" power invading and subjugating. Not making any moral statements about the north, but it isn't much different than soviet nostalgia and ethnic and cultural conflicts in something like Burma or the eastern bloc.

[@thisherehandleIdospout]

@@rvawildcardwolf2843 Don't forget the part where the CSA, in rejecting Northern 'authoritarianism', quite quickly went on to act like big ol' hypocrites by becoming at LEAST as authoritarian as the North arguably was, at least by war's end. We here in the South sure love our hypocrisy, don't we? 😂

[@theguardlorenzo5898]

"European forging was bad" Toledo blacksmiths rotating so fast on their graves that they started generating electricity

[@immakarma2516]

Now that is a grave rave

[@forgotmyself9205]

@@immakarma2516 That happens when Earthquakes hit graveyards and making them Maracas... Yea, just imagine it.

[@JohnSmith-sb2fp]

Didnt toledo use damascus ingots from india though?

[@9davcal]

There are earthquakes in Germany from Augsburg and Nuremberg blacksmiths doing the same...

[@miinyoo]

@@immakarma2516 Should definitely be a thing among necromancers. I have never witnessed. How disappointing.

[@NWolfsson]

Shad in this is the embodiment of "I'm not mad at you, I'm really engaged because I like you and it hurts me to hear you say stupid things!"

[@Wanttofanta]

Absolutely. That's the best way to put it

[@Aaron.Reichert]

I need to use that quote somewhere.

[@superfire6463]

Enraged? (Idk, you might have meant engaged and said engaged. But on the off chance you meant enraged, I will just comment this)

[@NWolfsson]

@@superfire6463 I meant engaged, but thank you :)

[@ghostcraft9343]

I hope you don’t mind me taking this quote to use in my next friendly shouting match about guns, politics or anime.

[@pastorjerrykliner3162]

When I was doing my undergraduate studies (History minor...a couple of credits short of a double-major), I had a professor who taught Medieval History who entered the first class session and told us that "If you use the term 'the Dark Ages' at any moment after this, you will summarily fail this class." Her point was well taken; the medieval period was marked with all sorts of technology and culture that was anything but "dark" or unsophisticated.

[@Sean-mq7wt]

I think you can use the concept of the "Dark Ages" to accurately reflect to conditions of Europe immediately following the following the fragmentation of the Roman Empire - however this shouldn't be used to apply any sort of value to the regional development. Rather, historical records become a good deal more fragmentary at the time; not because people descended into some backwards anti-intellectualism (quite the opposite occurred through out the period), but rather because the political vacuum left by the Romans left historical writing and chronicling up to hundreds of different groups with varying levels of care given to their records. Some chronicled events quite readily; others not so much. It was a bit of a chaotic time, but hardly stagnant or backwards. Rather, it's just that record keeping was somewhat less standardized than prior or after, largely due to fragmentization of the political structures.

[@chadliampearcy]

Then what's the history and reason for the term and it's spread and use? Edit. I could buy that Dark just means lack of records in-between two periods

[@pastorjerrykliner3162]

@@chadliampearcy, in no small part the label of the "Dark Ages" came from the Patrons of the Renaissance period who wanted to portray their period of history as being more enlightened and superior as to the ages that came before. We see something similar in the "Enlightenment" where contemporary thinkers want to brand each other as "Enlightened" as opposed to their forerunners.

[@chadliampearcy]

@@pastorjerrykliner3162 Thank-you for answering my question so promptly! So Renaissance, eh? Got it.

[@spartanonxy]

The "dark ages" were dark in some ways. The medieval period had most of the knowledge of Rome but lacked the logistics to take advantage of it a lot of the time. So it was a dark age for logistics.

[@PoachStevens]

The SciShow’s Damascus sword video is now set to private, a researcher has lost their wings methinks.

[@logicplague2077]

To call whoever made that video a "researcher" implies that they did actual research.

[@johndododoe1411]

@@logicplague2077 It may have been their job title. There's a difference between doing something and doing it right.

[@logicplague2077]

@@johndododoe1411 This is very true.

[@Ryan_Winter]

Coupled with them not making a video to set things straight and repudiate their claims, it shows a severe lack of any desire to provide a truthful picture of history.

[@zerosaber257]

@@johndododoe1411 propagandist researcher

[@Meet_The_Pyro]

We all know the real lost damascus is STICK

[@BionicDeathclaw]

But was STICK made in Asia? That's the only way it can be a good weapon.

[@TeisuMontgomery]

Damascus stick... Imagine the weight... Imagine the force!

[@anothergamingmail746]

Shad should make a huge, thick damascus STICK.

[@genstian]

China made some metal sticks and become the greatest empire at the time.

[@FelisInsanisCatfood]

þe Sticc!

[@shadfacts6465]

Shad Fact: Shad once caught and shattered a virbranium sword with his teeth.

[@TauGeneration]

this is some saitama stuff

[@daanwilmer]

He never tried this feat with a damascus/wootz sword, though.

[@ripghotihook]

I heard he used a stick to cut silk.

[@badgamemaster]

So that is with he is banned from Wakanda...

[@drzaius8430]

Chuck Norris called, he asked where he can hire Shad as a body guard.

[@balam314]

"Soluble in steel" This is what I like about science. A concept like solubility, which at first you only think about in water and other solvents, can suddenly be extended to literal molten metal, and it still works.

[@conroypawgmail]

23:00 - About some 40 or so years ago, when I was in grade school, learning about the Crusades, my teacher told us about an apocryphal meeting between Saladin and Richard the Lionheart. Saladin tried to convince the "Franks" to leave because of their superior martial technology in Damascus steel blades, by cutting a silk handkerchief in midair with his blade. Richard the Lionheart countered by splitting a log in half with his sword. Supposedly both leaders acknowledged the abilities of their counterpart's weaponry and knew that the war was going to be a long, drawn out affair. Myth and legend have been handed down for generations upon generations. Historical accuracy and correct technical details have taken a backseat to storytelling and exaggeration, in the attempt to convey the meaning of the lesson being made. I'm glad that you and your channel is a counter balance to that aspect.

[@chloetzpiano6548]

The swords of saladin was indeed being called the sharpest sword in the world at the time,the formula is kinda lost and some of them is said coincidence that nano formed by combining those steels with the perfect ratio...it is hard to say,but it has been proved as the sharpest sword based on germany research

[@Si74l0rd]

Even that sounds more like a teaching moment about balance and harmony. Such as it is with steel. The best raw materials still need good heat treatment to function better than a cheap, but well heat treated piece of spring steel. Interestingly, a deep dive into Wootz/Damascus/Bulat/Twisted bar pattern welded Damascus a few years ago yielded some devastating facts for the Wootz fanbois. The majority of Wootz swords that have been recovered aren't heat treated properly, if at all. While there is certainly a possibility that the original heat treatment might have been destroyed in a fire of some sort, not only would the fire have to be extremely hot, but it would be unlikely to account for all of them. Meaning that a lot of Damascus swords look pretty, but would never have been effective. One Smith wouldn't share his secrets with anyone but an apprentice, so as it's popularity grew and more people forged it, it seems likely they heat treated it as any old monosteel and it didn't get properly hardened. The key is always in the heat treatment, not the raw materials. The swords of Pharaoh's and kings were more often meteoric steel than crucible Wootz.

[@bjorn-falkoandreas9472]

This sounds more like a Frederick II thing to do. Only with more poetry recital. Richard "the Lionheart" only had good propaganda and was an abject failure in just about everything. "Better than John Lackland" is not really that much of an honour. And it was Richard I who kept gallivanting through the Middle East and his Ajevin holdings and bankrupted the realm for John Lackland being left holding the bag. Winning a crusade by cunning and good arguments is a Frederick II thing. Spending stupid amounts of money to get nowhere but die stupidly is a Richard I thing.

[@zerosaber257]

@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472 Richard stopped Saladin just before he was handed a complete victory of the region. It was objectively a success not to mention with his little army, betrayals, and his ally had a heart attack due to old age and wasnt able to make it.

[@parmesanchease480]

Wow, you can cut that cool handkerchief, now look what my sword can do

[@ItzYourBuddyOreo]

Last time I was this early, Shad was ranting about a stick

[@jeroenbeskers3012]

m2

[@afinoxi]

Not just a stick , but a _thick_ , _long_ and _hard_ one at that.

[@AlexiusRedwood]

Huge stick

[@pyeitme508]

Nuke ☢️

[@ligh7foo7]

Stick to it

[@shady4546]

"WHAT?! Are you kidding me? Where the heck are you gettin' that from!"- A much more verbose way of saying "Citation needed!"

[@Verbose_Mode]

I can hear his blood pressure rising.

[@Sapphiros]

I just imagine Samuel L. Jackson looking over his shoulder angrily and saying "Excuse me motherf****r?"

[@wyrmh0le]

Yeah I don't know much about anything much but "European blacksmiths didn't know you need to control carbon content or temperature" seems pretty suspect.

[@ovrair6340]

Tom Scott? Is that you?

[@SoI_Badguy]

You mean an Australian way of saying it?

[@davidfeliciano4329]

This is definitely a, “And I took that personally” video if I’ve ever heard one. Loved the passion and emotion oozing from his knowledge on the subject. We need more of this.

[@XxwilsonxX067]

I can physically feel Shad's blood pressure for the entire duration of his screen time

[@Adam_okaay]

Fun fact: The reason why Wootz Damascus Katanas were never made is because they would be so sharp that they would slice through the fabric of the universe as well time.

[@Ozymandias2x]

Presumably all the ones that were made did exactly as you said, and thus erased themselves from history, and thus were never made.

[@MaeljinRajah]

That tells me obviously such a Katana was created and then used and this paradoxical destroyed its own creator before they could create this katana

[@1810jeff]

It would also muddy up the hamon which as we all know is the metallurgical representation of the wielders fighting spirit.

[@kylewilliams8114]

@@MaeljinRajah the true story of the cursed blade, Mura Masa!

[@heathriley3692]

A 'Subtle Knife' you could say.

[@abbodsiraj250]

Fun fact the words that were written on the sword at 19:56 were in Arabic and thy were "نصر من الله و فتح قريب" "help from Allah (against your enemies) and a near victory"

[@GreenBeetle]

Great video. Scishow appears to be regurgitating a crummy Popular Mechanics article. I wonder if it is better to think of "damascus" as a term that describes an aesthetic and not a material. For example, not all wootz was referred to as damascus, only the patterned variety of which there are relatively few examples to survive into modern times given what must have been the thousands of tons of wootz that was made all over India for more than a millennia until production stopped during the peak production of wootz damascus not even 200 years ago. One could take an ingot of wootz capable of producing the watered silk pattern, split it in half and give one to a smith familiar with the thermal cycling and forging techniques needed to make 'true damascus' and the other half to a smith unfamiliar with those processes. The first would make a blade with the watered silk damascus pattern in it and the other would not. Both blades are chemically identical - the same material. I also note that pattern welded steel would not be called damascus without proper finishing and etching to reveal the pattern. Even though the material is identical prior to and after etching only the etched steel would be recognized as 'damascus'. The term 'damascus' was also, apparently, applied to swords that were decorated with jewel encrustations, engravings or etched, etc. "Damascus" was used in ancient times to describe a specific type of cloth that originated in China because of the fabric's decorative pattern. Without ambiguity and for several hundred years the term has described pattern welded steel in gunsmithing and blademaking both in practice and in literature validating the term's use in that case as much as in any other historical instance. In my humble opinion. You'd like 'The making and selling of wootz, a crucible steel of India ' by Bennet Bronson from Archeomaterials, 1986. It doesn't usually circulate online, I had to ask a librarian for a PDF. It addresses alot of mythology regarding damascus and wootz, lists about a dozen manufacture recipes from historical texts as late as the 18th century and so on. Some of it has probably been challenged since publication but the guy was a healthy skeptic.

[@jayeisenhardt1337]

I heard the secret was adding .005% - .01% vanadium or something like that. The leaves fed to whatever blood they were adding or wood chips or something and all the magic spells turned out to be vanadium. Places that also had it were iron mines like Maharashtra, Karnataka and Odisha. None of this is from me just what I've heard.

[@Thunderblock7889]

One of the many things i dislike about Scishow is that they have become too biased towards left wing views. Ths other one is that many times they teach basic kindergarden stuff.

[@CeanStrauss]

@@Thunderblock7889 Could you give an example of the Sci Shows "left leaning bias"?

[@catthewondahokulea6515]

Oh it gets worse with them. Their show is theoretical science not experimental science. Those morons will read scientific paper and try to explain it, but, they will leave out details they don't find relevant, that not how science works every detail is important in understanding the theory being tested. [Explanation on "theoretical science" - use prior knowledge, math and theories to explain the thesis statement. "experimental science" - you step outside to test it multiply times to prove or disprove the theory]

[@ihcterra4625]

@@jayeisenhardt1337 apparently the leaves add hydrogen and that has some effect on the end product. I think it lowers the melting temp if I remember correctly.

[@Relkond]

‘On average, your average sword was of average quality.’ A Tautology’s truth is certain.

[@CallMeMrChainmail]

It's worth reminding people though. A lot of people discover a particular thing and then think it's universally true. Example: In Medieval Europe swords were a symbol of status and power. (True) Also true: Records of peasant's selling granddad's old sword to other peasants for pennies.

[@nathanjora7627]

Yeah, that’s an issue that happens often when you use the same word twice with different meanings in the same sentence (ie : on average, statistically speaking, swords were of average quality, as far as performing well enough but not having any exceptional performance). Reminds me of « a shot has no meaning if it was no meaning » ^^

[@andyknolls8735]

On average, the average person person can drown in a stream that averages 3 feet deep. Be careful with averages.

[@MrCmon113]

E[E[X]] = E[X]

[@berserkasaurusrex4233]

"Half the people in this world are stupider than the average man. And that guy's an idiot!"

[@orenmontgomery8250]

"I've folded this steel over 100,000,000 times. It is harder than diamond but flexible like the willow. It is so sharp and strong it can cut through plot armor."

[@sebasbot01]

*I've folded this Damascus steel

[@1810jeff]

The phrase "harder than diamond but flexible like the willow" annoys me so much.

[@1810jeff]

@@sebasbot01 folded crucible steel sounds like it could have a cool pattern

[@orenmontgomery8250]

@@1810jeff then I have done my job.

[@laurelelasselin]

It can cut through plot armour?? WE ARE ALL DOOMED

[@Grumpy_old_Boot]

Heck, even Viking smiths knew how to make swords by forge welding soft and hard steel together, to get a tough spine, and a hard edge.

[@lqg4395]

You say "even Viking smiths," as if Viking smiths we're terrible or stupid.

[@Grumpy_old_Boot]

@@lqg4395 Obviously they were not, however, they were right at the very end of the iron age for Scandinavia, which meant that steel was still very rare. In fact, the proper Steel Age didn't start until the 1800's, where they had large scale homogenised steel production. So for a smith to have good steel almost 1000 years earlier, is quite the feat. this is where forge welding came in, and the Viking smiths were good at it. But they were also some of the last ones to get the technology in their hands. In the early days, Mesopotamia was the area of choice for metallurgy. Thus, if the viking Smiths had the knowledge, pretty much every other nation had it too, since they were late to the party.

[@coryzilligen790]

As I recall, isn't the iron ore quality in Scandavia rather poor? That means that the Vikings making quality weapons is similar to the Japanese making quality weapons: They needed to have a good understanding of forging and metalworking to deal with the high levels of impurities in the iron they were working with.

[@Grumpy_old_Boot]

@@coryzilligen790 It was quite the mix. Most of the iron was Bog-iron, but there were some proper iron mines in Uppsala, with high quality iron ore. The high quality iron was used for weapons, while the bog iron was used for everything else - From horseshoes to ploughshares Also, the Vikings started on using steel too, not just Iron. And one way to make a steel blade stronger, was to have a tougher (and flexible) iron core, with steel edges, for a harder edge.

[@olerindalrstad1317]

@@Grumpy_old_Boot Ulfbehrt.

[@qestra420]

"its nuance funnily enough, because reality usually is".... this is now my theme for life

[@nicreven]

damn

[@TheKjtheDj]

Watches original video: ohhh Shadiversity will have a field day with this Sees length of this video: it was worse than I could have imagined...

[@franciscoguinledebarros4429]

I DID NOT REALIZE THAT ok I'll do an assignment while watching, we reached podcast territory boys

[@1810jeff]

I've seen so many people talk about the mythical qualities of the "lost" damascus steel and Everytime I tell them that it was likely crucible steel with vanadium mixed in they tell me I'm making things up.

[@CoruptedJester]

@1810Jeff It’s amazing to me that modern humanity even knows what happened 10 years ago. Everyone is so willing to accept and defend misinformation without a second thought lol

[@enweave]

I wonder is SciShow will answer.

[@infernaldisdain8051]

@@CoruptedJester Well 9 years ago the world ended by the prophecies of Nostradamus (Who did not predict the end of the world but apparently did) so of course we don't know much about the old world from a decade ago.

[@brogflea6380]

"Hey, Shad made a video about your video!" "Oh really? That's cool!" "It's a long one." "Oh. Oh no."

[@alexanderren1097]

Just wait till Metatron gets on their case

[@jtbwilliams]

Literally what Hank Green tweeted in response to this video.

[@waffleblitzkrieg1765]

This guy finishes the video: why do I hear Jojo music? Shad: zero

[@vainklutz3179]

I usually watch them while playing mmo.

[@HuevoBendito]

@@jtbwilliams You got a link to the reply?

[@Gutslinger]

39:23 My friend and I used to intentionally heat up our metal art projects with a cutting torch, to give it the blue/purple/gold coloration when we were in welding school, during high school. I don't think we were taught that. We just figured it out ourselves. I actually gave my friend tips on how to do it properly, because he would heat up an area too quickly and turn it gray again. At which point you either have to use a grinding wheel or a wire wheel, and start all over again.. You have to slowly heat it up all over, keeping the torch away from the metal at a little bit of a distance. Kinda like trying to slowly roast a marshmallow into a gooey state without burning it.

[@boomerb7073]

I did this to my new exhaust manifold on a small scale when welding on a label, now I have a blue headers that lasted a week until I turned the engine on

[@jysix]

I love it how Shad gets so worked up to tear the BS apart. Probably not good for his heart, but so much fun to watch 😂

[@chenlee9835]

I think does his heart better because he’s venting and not holding it in.

[@Zantetsu13]

Middle ages: Has blacksmiths start a literal arms race turning people into tanks through steel and making them nigh-invulnerable against anyone not using similar armor. Scishow: BLacKsMIThs didNt' kNoW HOw tO sTEeL

[@Adam_okaay]

They actually didn't. Their weapons were so dull that it made the armor appear to be nigh-invulnerable. Because as we know European swords were big heavy unwieldy clubs and knights just beat on each other until their crummy steel crumbled into pieces. All of the quality European archaeological finds were actually planted by aliens to obfuscate the metallurgical arts and to help maintain the Wootz Damascus secret.

[@Gainn]

IKR.. It's soooo Middle Ageist..

[@shawnwolf5961]

@@Adam_okaay Has us in the first half.... :'D

[@MrCmon113]

@@Adam_okaay Katanas would have cut through the plate armor like butter. Which is also why Westerners couldn't invade there until they built nuclear bombs.

[@clefsan]

obviously the european blacksmiths were all frauds, who mail ordered their wares from sweatshops in the middle east :D

[@gabsrants]

The reason European swords wouldn't cut silk in mid-air is because the silk was way to expensive to just slice up with your sword.

[@50TNCSA]

I mean you ain't wrong

[@Si74l0rd]

There's no reason a well sharpened arming sword couldn't cut silk, or a human hair for that matter. The edge geometry on most European arming swords, hand and a half and longswords was lenticular, like two apple seeds laid back to back with the points facing outward. It's a four-way hollow grind, and as such is capable of being no less sharp than a straight razor that shares a similar edge geometry. It's a matter of good heat treatment and good angles on the bevel that allow you to cut finely, but the finer the edge the more likely it is to chip when the edge clashes against another sword or hard surface. Katanas can have a very fine edge because you use the soft and flexible spine to parry and redirect, not the edge. A different style of fighting entirely, and you optimise your weapon for the style you fight in. As an aside, in the tenth century, Ulfbert swords were pattern welded to give hard edges and a soft core, so the Katana isn't unique in being differentially hardened, or swords only being monosteel prior to modern times.

[@SuperGeckogreen]

I have no idea about medieval technology or smelting but watching shad lose every marble he could possibly lose is thoroughly entertaining. 10/10 vid 👌

[@impactfoto]

I was beginning to worry how much longer he'd go before remembering to take a breath.

[@kyriss12]

look up the phrase water forge. they used a series of water wheels to not only power the bellows for the blast furnaces had mentioned, which beat other forges not only in heat, but volume of meatal smelted, but also powered a manufacturing plant full of trip hammers of varying weights and speeds so a handful of master smiths with several apprentices could consistently put out several times the output of an individual smithy. TLDR, around the 1200's to 1300's Europe was already starting to go from small individual blacksmiths to small scale industrialization.

[@foolwise4703]

I really like all the details you brought up here and the structured and well-researched way you present them! Although it is perhaps a bit of a rant video, it feels like one of your best!

[@caredneck7613]

Shad once more amazes the medical community by having multiple rage induced aneurysms and surviving.

[@johndododoe1411]

I guess he keeps stopping short of an actual aneurism, though depending on the strength of his blood vessels and his resting blood pressure, he might get dangerously close.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

A long Shadiversity video is as much a sign of a brutal teardown as a sub-two minute Lock Picking Lawyer video.

[@clayxros576]

I'm glad someone else knows about him. The moment I see one of their short vids pop up on my feed I think "Oh boy, another lock to put on my dont buy list"

[@ericeaton371]

ahh a person of educate presence. anything past 2 min. on LPL might have a fighting chance

[@clayxros576]

@@ericeaton371 Either that or it's so bad they take a second to roast it.

[@justinbell7309]

My favorite parts are when Shad gets so flustered he stops speaking English for a few seconds.

[@Quandry1]

sub-two minute Lock Picking Lawyer video's are interesting because they have a quality of "almost not worth making a video about."

[@arthurlittle167]

I enjoy this channel very much! I spent about 7 years of my youth working in foundries, much of it on a furnace crew. 2800 degrees F to melt iron is at least 600 degrees too high. As I recall, hypo-eutectic is around 1900 degrees with hyper-eutectic being around 2200. Much over 2800 and we had to worry about the refractory bricks and cement breaking down.

[@lordferengi]

Back in my schooltime we had a teacher that owned an historical blacksmith (think somehow about 1850, so not medival). He offert to do an additional course on blacksmithing with real forging in it. First thing we learned there is how to deal with the charcoal to get the sulfur out of it to not have it later on in the steel. Maybe that's what they confused with when they state the "problem of carburization" at 29:34. Also you need to be aware of burning the carbon in the steel on that point when the iron is still not liquid but to hot to hold the carbon. But that's the opposite of carburization.

[@evaathari7761]

Mother: Are you doing your work? Me while watching Shad: Yeah this is history

[@brockmann4815]

Mother: "WHAT? Are you kidding me? Where did you got that from?"

[@wierdalien1]

It is both history and about history

[@jaredfullmer7043]

This stuff is straight out of the college-level materials science class I did.

[@nosajimiki5885]

My 7yr old daughter now understands that Shadowversity is like going too school, so sometimes she watches with me because they can be so informative... only she can't figure out why the teacher sometimes spends so much time laughing about big thick girthy sticks...

[@tekkblade82]

You know Shad is serious when he's wearing his real armor.

[@davidtownsend6092]

Yea hes ready to fuckin fight

[@vast634]

There is the real and the fake real armor. I wonder wich one he actually wears.

[@tekkblade82]

@@vast634 in this video he's wearing his real armor.

[@_Carlos]

Maybe the real armour was friendship

[@Zevonfan524]

Because he’s going into battle.

[@devinlawton2390]

I still pop back to this video occasionally, both to remind myself that even SciShow can be alarmingly wrong, and to enjoy Shad going bananas at the falsehood. Like, absolutely bananas. It brings joy to my heart.

[@TheFlyguywill]

That is one of the things that bugs me the most in the show Forged in Fire. They ALWAYS call pattern welded blades “Damascus.” I bet none of them have any idea what the origin of it really is, or have ever heard the term “wootz.”

[@Caldera510]

"european blacksmiths didn't understand either." *Milan would like to know your location.*

[@hyjinki4886]

I love the idea of just the entire city of Milan showing up at this guy's house like "I HEARD YOU TALKING SMACK!"

[@simorote]

@@hyjinki4886 "we testina! Va a ciapà i ratt!!"

[@paparstudio9752]

@@hyjinki4886 I'm pretty sure Milan was a duchy with capital city in Milan... So now imagine entire country showing up to someone's house

[@jiraphat2200]

European blacksmiths definitely know how to do it. They just don't understand why it needs specific series of actions. Yes, they definitely know that baking iron before smelting will result better steel. However, they didn't understand why removing sulfur makes better steel. They might not even know that baking remove sulfur content. Knowing instructions how to do is not the same as understand why instructions required certain actions.

[@freshtoast9578]

the people who spent the entirity of their history smacking eachothers shit with swords since they found out what bronze was didnt know how to make swords. ok at this point it must be intentional.

[@danielclark-hughes692]

Sorry, Shad, you're wrong. It's called woots Damascus because when you successfully create it you go "Woot!"

[@TheRealDaveMatthews]

Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of history?

[@David-yh9bb]

Haha wootz 😂

[@grizzlethebear2680]

Well dang now I gotta follow your KZbin channel to to make sure shad is right

[@torcheddreadnought899]

@@TheRealDaveMatthews ducks and witches floating...can I have my shrubbery already

[@EksaStelmere]

I tip my hat to you, Danny.

[@_Addi_]

I saw this video pop up in my recommended a while back. I took one look at the title, laughed, then scrolled right past it. Glad to see somebody else saw it as well.

[@restlessangel3196]

One of my favourite videos from you. Thank you so much for the time you took in collecting your information. Love your passion in the content you make.

[@TaberIV]

"European blacksmiths didn't understand either", if they talked about any other culture this way people would absolutely be calling this video racist. Just sayin'.

[@Asterion608]

You are absolutely right, and close to find the reasons why this kind of false myths are always strangely borderline slanderous towards european history.

[@TheLiamis]

It's the cool thing these days to hate on Europeans.

[@JAGtheTrekkieGEMINI1701]

@@TheLiamis aa a european I feel ALMOST offended lol

[@Intranetusa]

​@@Asterion608 These false myths are commonly applied to other cultures around the world as well - it's not exclusive to Europeans. People often claim the Egyptians weren't smart or advanced enough to have built the pyramids, claim the MesoAmericans weren't advanced enough to have built their stone pyramids or the large & precisely cut stone structures of Pumapunku, etc. Earlier 20th century European archeologists even claimed that pre-Columbian statues (eg. Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca ones) were built by Greco-Romans because they thought the natives didn't know how to carve statues. Now the new version of that is some people claiming the Qin terra cotta army was built by Greeks because they think the ancient Chinese otherwise wouldn't know how to make life sized statues.

[@Intranetusa]

​@@TheLiamis It's the product of ignorance - it has nothing to do with being cool. These false myths are commonly applied to other cultures around the world as well - it's not exclusive targeted at Europeans. People often claim the Egyptians weren't smart or advanced enough to have built the pyramids, claim the MesoAmericans weren't advanced enough to have built their stone pyramids or the large & precisely cut stone structures of Pumapunku, etc. Earlier 20th century European archeologists even claimed that pre-Columbian statues (eg. Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca ones) were built by Greco-Romans because they thought the natives didn't know how to carve statues. Now the new version of that is some people claiming the Qin terra cotta army was built by Greeks because they think the ancient Chinese otherwise wouldn't know how to make life sized statues.

[@blardfip4540]

The problem with mythologizing the past, as Shad points out, is that you discount the skill and knowledge of the people living at that time. This is how we end up with misconceptions like “the pyramids had to be built by aliens” or “Spices were used to cover rotting meat since people didn’t know how to preserve food.”

[@alekssavic1154]

I find it odd that we get these competing myths about the past. One the one hand people in the past were idiots who didn't understand anything, but on the other they had these crazy secret super materials (Damascus, Greek fire, etc.) that nobody today knows how to recreate (even though we definitely do).

[@HaHa-gy5vg]

Spices were used to get limp men hard.

[@Zachary-]

Also, you can totally eat rotting meat. It's fine. It's gross. But it's fine.

[@chocoman45]

@@HaHa-gy5vg And to show off wealth. Even as said spices were already disintegrated dust by the time it reached western Europe.

[@marzipancutter8144]

@@alekssavic1154 Yeah, that last part is probably because once there's so much hype around a super material, even when we do find the real thing it's not good enough to be the stuff of legends, so instead of concluding the myths might have been embellished we assume there must be an EVEN MORE AWESOME version of the material out there that we just haven't discovered the real one yet. Kind of reminds me of something I've heard about the myth of Eldorado once.

[@MrVvulf]

50:52 - I just want to point out for those who don't realize - the primary person behind the rediscovery of how to make "wootz damascus steel" was AL PENDRAY - a humble Florida blacksmith and farrier who worked on the process for decades. 40+ years of experience, curiosity, intelligence, ingenuity, dedication, and true craftsmanship enabled Al to work it out. World renowned metallurgist J.D. Verhoeven, and retired Nucor Steel Vice President W. E. Dauksch both got involved later, and helped Al Pendray nail down the minute details of the metallurgy, and exactly what was going on at a microscopic level (the dendrites, role of vanadium, etc.).

[@sammorgan31]

I notice how you still seem to respect SciShow. I have a question. If they were this laughably wrong in an area in which you're educated, then how do you know they aren't just as laughably wrong in areas where you aren't?

[@dirtpounder]

Anyone who has watched them for an extended period of time will know they are.

[@rhorynotmylastname7781]

@@dirtpounder Also they made the video private instead of saying "we were wrong"

[@Ignisan_66]

Scishow is a crap. I stopped watching them a long time ago. Shad is too soft on these guys.

[@cursedcancersurvivor]

Like basic biology. 👀

[@sleepingcity85]

Best question :)

[@John73John]

Eventually someone is going to make a video about shooting Damascus steel nunchucks from a longbow using a reverse grip, and Shad's head is going to literally explode.

[@Fidtz]

while drinking ale.

[@nathanjora7627]

Don’t forget the longbow’s arms being made out of katana with blades made of a billion times folded metal.

[@skybattler2624]

Why could I imagine Joel Sprange able to do that.

[@albertalmodal4331]

Don't forget the boob armor.

[@snarflcat6187]

As a D&D DM, you just inspired a brand new weapon for my campaign...

[@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight]

Everyone keeps talking about the pattern-welding of steel, while here I am with a nerdy obsession for blued steel. My only regret is that blued steel doesn't glow when orcs are near.

[@JosephDavies]

Alas, the recipe for Gondolin Steel has been lost.

[@raistlin3462]

How do you know? Have you ever tried to put blued steel near an orc?

[@thor498]

@@raistlin3462 comment of the day.

[@IPostSwords]

Blued steel is lovely - especially blued and gilt

[@evilbob840]

Meh, Blued Steel, Le Tigre, Ferrari, Magnum... they all look the same.

[@philliporr2478]

I always find your rebuttal vids so blasted informative. Maybe it forces you to dig deeper, who can say. Thanks again from an avid fantasy reader and aspiring author and metalirgist

[@rickfrancis4182]

Looking at Shads' face as he goes along I reckon his temp is going up high enough to act as a blast furnace... Always fun to watch his channel..

[@DarthScosha]

If they did look up Wikipedia, they sure didn't read it properly. The Damascus steel page says "However today, the difference between wootz steel and pattern welding is fully documented and well understood."

[@bojik2616]

Sadly even one of the founders of wikipedia states it is no longer a reliable source of information in part due to various institutions and individuals monopolizing and controlling the information as well as abusing algorithms. To many smaller sources are squelched as well.

[@valbroderick8156]

"European blacksmiths didn't understand how to control the amount of carbon in the metal and the temperature" -said someone who clearly didn't re-read how blacksmithing works

[@turefgh4695]

It is know that some vikings used to put bones in the iron because magic and that created an early form of steel.

[@asian_dragon1566]

@@turefgh4695 yep believing that the spirits of the animals bones will empower the weapon but in reality did make a kind of primitive steel no great steel but was slightly better than the raw iron swords of the era

[@jakedill1304]

@@turefgh4695 my understanding is correct, vikings had kinda shit tech outside of the marine stuff all in all... which makes sense as they were traders as well, they put the effort into the boat that takes them everywhere and then can just buy or steal it.... haha get it... ste---al, cause it's steel, and their stealin it. HA...!

[@thesurvivlist5440]

@@jakedill1304 Ha...Ha... Get Out

[@jakedill1304]

@@thesurvivlist5440 Only after you give me your stuff and womenfolk and someone who can read it all to me... and three mules... I'll take Donkeys in substitute but f--- you if I ever fall for subbing zebra's again... worst month ever.

[@seung-geelhong1689]

Whew! Over an hour of high emotional presentation. I was worried that Shad would have a heart-attack during the video. I don't know how he managed to present so much information without taking a break. -- Great work; I learned so much!

[@GoblinLord]

Damascus can make itself seem so good cause it raised its Charisma stat (also explaining why it's such a pretty metal)

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

"Europeans couldn't make steel" The Celts: "And we took that personally."

[@therealdannymullen]

Thank you for this meta comment

[@DefinitelyNotEmma]

European steel was actually really high in quality. I don't know how people can actually believe that kind of stuff

[@pes6628]

@@DefinitelyNotEmma They hate everything European. Racism works through ignorance, so don't be surprised that these snakes in the grass exhibit both.

[@wilfdagless5706]

@@DefinitelyNotEmma I think many people who haven't properly researched history just think of the flimsy props they've seen in movies, and just have those images pressed in their mind. Most people haven't handled properly made swords, their only experience is seeing things like the History Channel and maybe manipulating weak props or cheap decorations, which would only reinforce the idea of historical weapons and armor being weak.

[@slutslayer2646]

Would that be pronounced kelts or selts? Asking for a friend.

[@gabor9838]

I love how Shad has become a sort of historical content cop.

[@SatoruwaFeng]

Scishow: EUROPEAN SMITHS DON'T SMITH Audience: thou hast goofed, sir. Shad: WEEE WOOO WEEEE WOOOO

[@smite4032]

Big stick energy

[@gramursowanfaborden5820]

_WHAT WE DO HERE IS GO BACK_

[@Aliyah_666]

Right...lol I missed these rants lol 😂😂

[@SimuLord]

@@MeruMods Wow. SciShow went full "slink away with tail between legs like a chastised dog" after Shad got through with them. Better that than leave misinformation live.

[@ST-RTheProtogen]

Scishow: "which is something European swords couldn't-" Shad, popping up behind him mid-video: " *I have several objections* "

[@82dorrin]

"For much of history, we just didn't have the technology to do that." The Iron Age would like to know your location.

[@jzbayer1]

I have a PhD in high medical arms and armor and I work at a prestigious collection in NE USA. Thank you so much for making this video, it was been driving me insane

[@jpdemer5]

"Medical arms"?

[@cjmunnee3356]

@@jpdemer5 Probably an uncorrected typo.

[@lordkayx]

what school did you go too?

[@jzbayer1]

Yes it is a typo that I was too lazy to correct. I went to Columbia University is New York, as well as Harvard University, University of Wisconsin. I also spent many years working for The Royal Armories and at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

[@theangrycheeto]

@@jzbayer1 You should make some youtube videos and share your expertise! I'm gonna quietly subscribe to you in case you do some day.

[@SimuLord]

I've seen your videos about steelmaking from way back (been a subscriber since 2017), and as soon as SciShow stepped on that territory, I was like "brace for impact..."

[@DailyCorvid]

Lol. Shad voice goes into the stratosphere whenever some oik starts making out that European weapons and training were not the best :D

[@matchesburn]

Someone should go back and look at the seismology records in Australia around the time Shad initially watched this video. I'll bet money you can tell exactly when Shad put his foot down.

[@SimuLord]

@@matchesburn On the earthquake scale, there's "quake", "big quake", "1906 San Francisco", then two other categories for "thrown pommel" and "Shad's foot."

[@shawnwolf5961]

@@DailyCorvid No, it's when they try to stay that they were crap. There is a big difference.

[@nicholasroach880]

I have been a long time viewer. And oof I was scared for the SciShow channel reputation. Lol

[@thesenate5913]

Europe: apparently can't make steel Also Europe: has units literally covered in steel.

[@shawnpethel1172]

I love your channel so much your attention to details and function helps me so much as a beginning blacksmith I need to know these things thank you \m/

[@WardOfSouls]

Shad: "You can sharpen anything - Well, any steel, I mean." Me: "I think you need to watch a video about making knives out of spaghetti."

[@drthmik]

And Chocolate

[@cocodojo]

Wasn't he the same person that basically made a wooden knife? I mean, the person probably read Shad's book (kidding, but it'd be fun if that was sorta true, but its likely not) and thought, "Hey, you know what would be cool? A sharp knife... made of wood!"

[@tylerphuoc2653]

@@cocodojo Joerg used some super hard wood and made a knife out of it, strong enough to dent car doors significantly

[@Just_A_Dude]

@@tylerphuoc2653 Sounds like ironwood. Not even joking, stuff got the name because it's ridiculously hard and dense.

[@ExcelonTheFourthAvalonHeirs]

Is that crazy Japanese guy who make any knives of anything?

[@odedmartial-arts1455]

We actually know that European swords COULD cut silk in mid-air, because it is a common "sword feat" that is mentioned many times in sources. Just ask Matt Easton. :)

[@lexiyoutube]

I cant find the video anymore on scishow!! Good job!! :)

[@nathanrosman-bakehouse359]

Been subed for years. Saw your video about your channel dying yesterday. Realized I had not seen you on my feed in a while. Wanted to let you know, this video was just recommended to me.

[@korstmahler]

Scischow: Starts a sentence with 'It is said...' The entirety of Wikipedia: "I'm going to stop you right there."

[@AposineYT]

[by whom?]

[@nicholasking6066]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYGbgXahmKeNi5Y this vid is an old favorite and tells the truth of wootz its loss, and rediscovery. when made correctly it was amazing. RIP Master Pendry i live less than 100 miles away, wish i had the chance to meet you.

[@VikingTeddy]

SciShow Space is the only one that looks at sources at least *a little*. The rest can be disregarded.

[@Thisisausername556]

@@VikingTeddy reminds me of PBS Space Time. Pretty much the only thing from PBS KZbin channels worth watching. And almost none of it is for people who aren’t legitimately interested in the subject. It’s not exactly an easy subject lol.

[@oneleghendo5239]

There’s an entire KZbin channel dedicated to a guy making razor sharp knives out of literally anything that normally wouldn’t be considered sharpen-able...

[@koobs4549]

@@ssholum ...also, I want to send him all of my knives to sharpen. 😆

[@patrickkanne]

Pasta.. sharpest kitchen knife ever made out of pasta... genius! Dude should move to London, he'd make mountains of cash!

[@Drackzgull]

First video I watched from Kiwami Japan was when he made a knife out of jelly, my mind was blown. That jelly knife was shaper than any of the knives in my kitchen (at the time at least, I learned from him and other sources how to properly sharpen knives and bought decent entry level equipment to do it)

[@YukihyoShiraki]

Like milk!

[@lordkayx]

I LOVE THAT CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tofu knives FTW!!!!!

[@cardiniloauzenheim9642]

I just want to say, Shad... -Watching how passionate you get about this is absolutely wonderful. -I'm not a particularly passionate person myself, so seeing someone such as you get so very passionate about things that interest me really puts a smile on my face.

[@Shaylok]

You (Buying a quality sword): This blade has been marred by a chip! Blacksmith's apprentice (points to his master): The one who smelted it dealt it.

[@Biomirth]

I would be upset with SciShow but actually this whole process of recognizing how wrong people can be and taking the time to really tear down false premises, mythologized thinking, poor reasoning, etc.. is a great reminder to everyone that we can all get things wrong and that it's important to do your research!

[@Markle2k]

And it is how real science and engineering is done. Those who demand perfection from their science and tech advisors will inevitably fall behind those who allow mistakes to be made. It's also true that "happy accidents" is how many breakthrough discoveries have been made.

[@the_hanged_clown]

another important thing to note is that the presenters over on sci-show are "science communicators" and as such do not typically do the science themselves, meaning so much can be "lost in translation".

[@bolgert911]

Herd mentality. You see this in loads of things Obvious one's are climate alarmism, green energy, capitalism being a zero sum game, Clovis first When the premise is wrong then people go down that route with out questioning it at all. "Everybody knows that " 😂 don't take anything as a given. We all get caught out. like this one I just presumed Damascus steel was just steel with a pattern because every other video I've seen suggested it was. Delighted to have seen this video.

[@TheAlison1456]

Theramintrees is a great channel if you want to learn about that aspect of reality.

[@TheAlison1456]

@Markle2k you're right. But it raises the question of what pseudoscience and science really are.

[@Strawberrymilkdrink]

Subtitles: "proper Tabasco steel" The true flame blade

[@MoltenMouseMetal]

Flame-oil coating, +2 fire damage

[@chaoticreckless6909]

You can also make armor out of it to get fire resistance, very useful against dragons

[@andrewchapman2039]

@@chaoticreckless6909 Just make sure you've got appropriate underwear on.

[@kronoscamron7412]

the subtitles also said something about iron sauce.

[@M0D776]

Nerevar would be proud

[@davidjhyatt]

I recently took a materials class and am enjoying the content. If I needed this info I wouldn't rely on any 1 source, especially second hand. I did find it kind of amusing that after nailing scishow several time I noticed at 51mins there is a cut and then a voice over changing the "high" and "low" to opposite from what they mouth out. I prefer mistakes are obviously edited when they are found fyi. Thank you for the content!

[@malbogia8003]

That was the exact video that made me question how much due diligence was practiced for the research. It kind of felt like it was deliberately false

[@PiousSlayer]

I've watched a few of their videos in the past where they've blatantly got information incorrect. Doesn't help that the original founder also made up fake things in the past.

[@tiger12506]

"they didn't know what temperature to get the steel to?" Someone never heated a piece of metal in their life. There's literally a freakin rainbow of colors it emits as a guide...

[@Just_A_Dude]

Exactly! The stuff is color-coded for your convenience.

[@ElionoNailo]

@@Just_A_Dude Just like Dragons

[@allangibson2408]

If you don’t control the light levels you can get the temperature wrong - ask the early Springfield rifle users (the bolt lugs broke due to incorrect tempering).

[@Si74l0rd]

That's tempering, which is only half of heat treating. Change the composition or percentage of the alloying elements and you change whether steel air hardens or oil hardens, whether it stress fractures in a water quench, or whether the appropriate carbides have precipitated into the matrix. Modern steel is homogeneous from batch to batch, so the heat treatment can be shown in a phase diagram. The bloomery steel of old would have been different every time, and a master blacksmith would pass his secrets only to his apprentice. So while you could obtain bloomery Wootz from a silk road trader, you wouldn't have got a phase diagram, or any clues as to how to heat treat it appropriately, or even what to quench it in. Consequently many Wootz swords have been found which were never hardened or were improperly hardened. It's my hypothesis that the further you get from the originating mine that the ore came from, the less experimentation would have been possible, and it would be less likely that the blade would be superior to an average but well heat treated European sword. The swords of Pharaoh's and kings were more often meteorite Damascus, which would have had a mystique of its own, but would only have been worked by the best Smith's of the time, who probably had the most experience and had done the most experimentation over the course of generations because of their proximity to power and funding. If you were making a sword from the only piece of Wootz you've ever managed to pick up, how do you know how to best treat it? If it's too precious to waste you take a best guess, but it's not likely to be perfection no matter how great you are. It requires experimentation to get it right, and there wasn't enough material to do that large scale unless you had patronage, same with meteoric alloys. Even the best Japanese bladesmiths can only attempt to influence a blade's Hamon. It's always going to do it's own thing, but experimentation will get you closer to consistency. In attempting to replicate the Hamon of a well regarded Masamune, one Kami found that the Hamon wasn't what he wanted after quenching, so he took a chance and requenched, and discovered the secret to that Hamon, ending up with something similarly aesthetic, a sort of shadow Hamon behind the main one. If you can't risk a second quench for fear of losing your material, less experimentation is available.

[@lorisewsstuff1607]

Yes, Sci Show missed the obvious: there wouldn't have been an Iron Age without the technology to produce iron.

[@RiskOfBaer]

You don't make iron. Iron is an element. You make steel. From iron.

[@lorisewsstuff1607]

@@RiskOfBaer you can't use iron as it's mined. It has to be processed into a useable form.

[@Longshot441]

@@lorisewsstuff1607 No tools needed. Obvisouly we used magics via wizards to forge the metal and bend it.

[@SgtByrd93]

@@lorisewsstuff1607 you can't use any metal in it's ore form, ore has to be refined. Clever clogs.

[@lorisewsstuff1607]

@@SgtByrd93 Exactly.

[@1crazypj]

That was highly entertaining, watching you get really animated is fun, presenting actual facts is also way better. It's unfortunate that many (MANY) people believe that smart photography, good lighting and slick presentation makes 'opinions' true fact (particularly when 'spoken with authority') I read somewhere that spring steel was tempered in lead or tin bath (molten obviously) depending on how flexible it needed to be (I think a history teacher 45 or more years ago?) Using that method you can have less skilled apprentices turning out weapons under supervision of a master craftsman while the smiths can keep forging away.. After all, taking six months or a year to make a single Katana type blade isn't really feasible when you need hundreds or thousands in a hurry

[@PhysioDetective]

Loved the passion and science and always love a good debunking. Thank you!

[@benjaminjane93]

It’s kind of annoying when people talk about European Medieval society as if it was the Stone Age... and that Asia was some kind of mystical land with magical blacksmiths. Edit: Some people in this thread reminds me of my old friend John. Who could talk endlessly about how awesome Rome was. So much so he couldn't tell that no one ever gave a crap and wished he would just shut the hell up.

[@artemislogic5252]

we've been much more advanced than asia for a very long time, maybe 2000 years ago _some_ aspects of their society were more advanced than the romans, but their culture and technology stagnated and it was europe who was innovating and inventing

[@murdockhancock1660]

@@artemislogic5252 the chinies for most of there history where more advanced then the Europeans I say this becouse the trade flowed from east Asia to Europe it would not be until the discovery of the new world that the balance would equalize and then surpass a more articulate put comment by user Kin Hei Lam "The Roman empire was able to compete with Asia and the middle eastern Muslim societies, but when the empire collapsed the European societies fell behind the middle east and Asia in terms of development and technological advancement. It stayed that way until the 13th century when the mongols wreck havoc on the Middle East and Asia. The Roman Empire fell around the 5th century, Europeans weren't able to compete until the 13th century, that's a span of 800 years European Society was behind. Both Baghdad and Peking had populations of over 1 million when the mongols came and destroyed it all, what was the largest European city at the time? Europe through a series of dumb luck managed to avoid most of the mongol massacre and was even able to benefit when the Europeans, the mongols kidnapped and brought back to Asia, escaped and went back to Europe, bringing with them tales of the wonders in the east, which lead to Marco Polo going to china. Even Christopher Columbus was looking for a route to Asia when he discovered the Americas."

[@tonyhakston536]

@@murdockhancock1660 that’s not a sign of being more advanced, that’s a sign of having something of value. Europeans have gone to war to fill the nobility's spice racks. Asia has lots of spices and is willing to sell it for cheaper than it would cost to raise an army. They could literally have just discovered farming last week and they would still be worth trading with.

[@peterfireflylund]

@@murdockhancock1660 so the Chinese got nothing in return, then? Of course they did! Lots of Roman glassware for the ultra rich Chinese, for example. Glass is one of those things we could do much, much better in Europe. You might also want to take a look at the history of math... Euclid’s Elements was still ahead of Chinese math around 1600. It’s kinda surprising that only the easier parts of Elements had reached China by the time European missionaries (and their Chinese converts) tried to publish a translation of Elements. They to stop the project halfway through because of huge resistance from the Chinese “sages”.

[@murdockhancock1660]

@@tonyhakston536 the modern term spices is obviously confusing you when that word was first used it was describing anything from books, inventions, silks, tools and other desired things the reason the Europeans wanted them was becouse they where some degree better then the things they had

[@inkblotCrisis]

Yeah, the intro is exactly what I imagined Shad would react to that part.

[@morlath4767]

Not just the initial intro, but that entire rant about pattern wielding =/ Damascus. It's honestly been a massive annoyance to me that people (like Alex Steele) keep acting like the two are exactly the same.

[@immikeurnot]

I never got that deep into the metallugry, so I had no idea about the carbon content of cast iron, but it makes sense. Back when I worked in factories, working machines that finished raw castings, I noticed the cutting tools wore out much faster in cast iron parts than they did in even high grade steels I'd machined before.

[@Marxmann1984]

I like how SciShow so confidently asserts things and then are proven wrong. How the hell does that happen...did they post a redaction.

[@dr.badguyreviews6785]

Apparently the Scishow episode on Damascus Steel no longer exists. I call that a tip of the hat.

[@A.F.Whitepigeon]

You've never seen someone attempt to cut free-hanging silk with a sword? Be the change you want to see in the world, Shad.

[@chaosstripe9446]

Do it

[@redactedredacted4080]

Dew it

[@icspps]

I hope Shad does this...

[@grandwizardnoticer8975]

Free-hanging silk: world's most dangerous weapon

[@rhyss4761]

Kevin Costner did.....like a twat

[@ManMang0]

good to hear in the intro that everyone is on board. Nice to work together to get to the facts :) I will check out SciShow.

[@ezraparsons3020]

Man I just stumbled upon this channel and im already subbed.

[@AtaraxianWist]

Those moments when Shad speaks faster, higher, and louder are just another reason I love this channel.

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

"Didn't know how to make Metal weapons" Wow God must have made a miracle with all that Plate Armor in museums, clearly thats the only explanation.

[@nodustechnologies3989]

probably just a fashion fad.

[@eotia879]

Shard plate obviously

[@jakedill1304]

I mean sure, for the rich but let's face it shit didn't get real until we got spoons made out of metal.. just goes to show that we're always going backwards and that the old days were the good ones, go through five or six plastic spoons per Frozen burrito they're always snapping off if I only could source me one of those old antique metal ones I could you know probably save a bunch of money despite the cost.

[@riverroulette792]

@@jakedill1304 how do you not have metal spoons?

[@jakedill1304]

@@riverroulette792 because of my glass teeth... they scratch them to easy and I want my spoons perfect for bending... there not for eating and besides spoons are shit anyways... ain't nothin you can do with a spoon you can't accomplish with a good ol one two combo of fork and crazy straw... Can't shoot cocaine up your butthole with a spoon... CAN YOU? Check and Mate.

[@p3n4nce]

I realize I’m finding your videos, late? But wow fully Entertained, love the passion and depth of explanation.

[@lombardmordesian]

I'm European and I can't understand why they hate and underrated so much our medieval history. There's always this trend to push up to a legendary/mithological status the weapons, traditions and history of Asia. I honestly think that this is an unprofessional and silly way to study history, in my opinion we should study history and traditions of each continent without this distorted filters.

[@dr.chalmers7923]

I think SciShow just took down that video cause I saved it and now it’s deleted on my playlist, and it isn’t showing up on their channel 😂

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

Yep, they took it down within the last hour. They just couldn't handle the truth!🤣

[@ronweber1402]

Huzzah!!

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

@@ronweber1402 Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!

[@ehk5948]

@@flame3642 It's not old it came out a couple days ago.

[@ArchangelApollo]

They couldn't handle the assault of truth raining down from Shad's /MACHICOLATIONS!!!!/

[@clayxros576]

I like how everyone just knows things like this summon Shad.

[@kevlarandchrome]

"Shad's been missing in the wilderness for days." "Quick, somebody put up a video with blatant misinformation about medieval European swords!"

[@clayxros576]

@@kevlarandchrome The funniest part is I can imagine that working.

[@kevlarandchrome]

@@clayxros576 Indeed.

[@zach7372]

@@kevlarandchrome Shad immediately pops out of the woods with a collection of sticks and rocks to analyze.

[@kevlarandchrome]

@@zach7372 "Shad! We thought you were dead!" "What? No, but I have found fifteen ways this piece of flint is more effective than nunchucks!"

[@G4gazhotmail]

Love people who do their home work and keep to the facts and call out others while not trying to be rude

[@pedroyahyavi7048]

Love your videos. They are really great .Thank you for you informative programs . You answer alot of questions