Hobbits Were Real. Why Were They So Small?

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You may have heard of the Hobbits -- no, not the Tolkien ones. Our cousins, Homo floresiensis! But have you ever wondered why this enigmatic mini species was so little? Let's talk about the decades of research into what made the hominins from Liang Bua Island in Flores, Indonesia so tiny.
Hosted by: Hank Green (he/him)
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[@SciShow]

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[@mnemosynevermont5524]

Why so many itty bitty Italians in present day?

[@Wasko1312]

Why are you misleading us on this subject? first you say Island of Flores, and than You mention the island of Java... if you speak about anything, please do some factual research before you spread your garbage all over the planet.🦧

[@Napoleonic_S]

Give an update on Hank's curvy hair situation please? Isn't it supposed to be temporary?

[@nerzer11]

My professor used to say that a new fossil never really "fills a gap" but just produces two smaller gaps on each side. Every answer raises new questions. A very interesting field for sure.

[@lukescholz1]

I love that

[@aliengeo]

This makes me think of the Futurama scene where the professor is questioned about the "missing link" between modern humans and ancient apes and says, it's Homo erectus. Ah, but what's the missing link between Homo erectus and ancient apes? Homo habilis! But what's the missing link between Homo habilis and-

[@Adventurealliancekerala]

This species truly feels like something out of a fantasy story, yet it’s a real part of our history. Just incredible!

[@jerrytuerke6950]

Look at how many types of humanoid were alive 140000 years ago

[@fernandobernardo6324]

The population of thst place and the surrounding islands are still the shortest on average today

[@ReflectedMiles]

Tolkien was a prophet, not just a philologist and a papist. 😊

[@owen-trombone]

@@fernandobernardo6324 is that true?

[@TitularHeroine]

I love when Hank grows more and more intense -- and deservedly so! (I got an ad for Furbies somewhere in there and couldn't help picturing them as part of that missing fossil record)

[@Marewig]

I've been following the small Floresian hominin development over the years too, and this video was an instant click for me. I've got to say, you really nailed the pronunciation for Liang Bua there.

[@Darxide23]

I had always heard that they were just the result of island dwarfism, so hearing that they potentially were direct descendants of a hominid species other than homo erectus is exciting.

[@pauls5745]

They probably weren't around very long, and got squeezed out in the region into smaller pockets and islands. There might be some of their DNA floating around in some of those pygmy tribes yet.

[@LilFeralGangrel]

@@pauls5745 no? all you made is a bunch of unsubstantiated claims.

[@jonathanwilson4791]

Odd thing about island dwarfism. There is also island giantism

[@sax0cat]

@@jonathanwilson4791 Same w/ deep sea dwarfism and deep sea gigantism. Evolution is weird

[@benjaminforman8901]

Wait, I want to hear what "Team Pathology" had to say when the other specimens were found! Or are they still beating that drum? We haven't gotten to the dregs of this tea yet!

[@ETBrenner]

Yes! I confess it always bugs the crap out of me whenever I hear another one of these stories of scientists being so unscientifically dogmatic about their pet theory. Is it petty of me to want to hear a mea culpa out of them for being so obstructionist? Yeah... I guess it is petty. But dang it all! 😀

[@wtfkristenn]

Great video! To add a lil more context, Theres been a ton of research in the past couple of years looking into why some of be Homo floresiensis characteristics look more archaic. One of the theories is that scaling of limb proportions and body size due to selective pressures are not always linear. This could then produce the more australopithecine-looking proportions while still derived from Homo erectus.

[@alexeibernard7577]

I absolutely love how dramatic and passionate you describe these scientific publications that went back and forth between the two different camps of opinion and scientific reasoning! Just recently I spoke with some friends at my university where we said the lecture was great today. It “was almost like being at university”. What we meant by that was that people were discussing pedagogical arguments with a passion that was refreshing… These days so many people seem to study at university in such a dry and dreary way. They try to get everything done, which makes sense because you’ve got to get your exams done, but on the other hand it also means it’s kind of sad. I love drama in the world of science! I’m only at two minutes and 34 seconds, but I am loving the drama. Thanks so much for this video. I look forward to watching the remaining eight minutes.😊

[@mrwedge18]

0:19 What do you mean scishow is more than a decade old???? You take that back right now

[@jennytweet7602]

0:19

[@dolphinsoccer4]

Thank you for introducing the mid-roll ad! It's so much less jarring now. I still skip through it, but it's a more pleasant experience overall!

[@bhami]

Note that intelligence is not necessarily closely correlated with brain size. Just consider corvid birds (crows, magpies, jays, ...) which are super-bright, use tools, and hold grudges and even pass the grudges along to their children and other relatives.

[@huckthatdish]

Within family groups, it’s pretty well correlated generally. When comparing from a mammal to a dinosaur like a Corvid, it becomes incredibly flawed. But when comparing closely related species, it’s definitely correlated. Not perfectly correlated obviously, but in general correlated to the point an exception is quite notable

[@Kikilang60]

Corvids have to fly, so they evolve to have light brains. Their brains maybe small, but they have five times the number of brain cells per cubic centimeter when compared to humans.

[@armchairwarrior963]

Humans it matters. Total different speciee. Bird brains and human brains etc.. are different.

[@John-pe6fw]

In that case, has someone correlated humam iq with brain weight and size? Thatd be both intriguing and terrifying

[@huckthatdish]

@@John-pe6fw the difference is more on a species average level. Not individuals within the same species. I’d suspect there is a correlation globally, but only because people who grow up malnourished both preform worse on iq tests and all parts of their body grow smaller on average. Same reason globally wealth is very closely correlated with height. Obviously that correlation falls apart past a certain point because once you’re well nourished, being richer does not make you taller. If you only compare people who grew up adequately nourished I doubt you’d see much correlation

[@kevinmorgan2968]

This was a nice little video, it cleared up some small confusion and went into minute detail on tiny things. Big success.

[@huldu]

I can't even imagine being the last of your kind, of course you might not think about it that way but if you're living alone on an island and everyone else is gone, that can't be pleasant.

[@pbtube58]

I doubt they knew they were living on an island. The island is not that small. Also, they would not know they were the last one, only the last one within their tribe.

[@danieloneal7137]

@@pbtube58 It’s also possible that there was still a sizable population of them living there when the first Homo sapiens arrived on the island. And you know what most likely would’ve happened then …

[@thomasferris3750]

Don't help that it typically happens as a result of genocide

[@xWood4000]

​​@@danieloneal7137 Do you mean reproduction or death? Both could be possible, although I don't know how much dna there is

[@mattduncil]

There was a guy that was viewed alone living on an island the last of his tribe. Then disappeared and is assumed died.

[@ivytarablair]

The only thing that could make me more excited about adding to the story of the hobbits would be watching Hank be SO EXCITED telling us the unfolding story of ever more hobbit information!! :D

[@assininecomment1630]

Fascinating stuff. Thank you! I'm stoked to learn that around 50kya, Homo Floresiensis was long established _when the ancestors of Australian Aboriginal Peoples passed through_ what is now, the Indonesian archipelago. Current evidence indicates Aboriginal Australians were occupying at least the northern regions of this continent, as far back as 65 kya. Did their ancestors essentially walk past what was an endemic species in Indonesia?

[@meganofsherwood3665]

Ooh!! I didn't realize the timing overlapped!!

[@Tjalve70]

True: Having long legs WILL allow you to cover more ground and spread out geographically. But TIME will also allow you to do that. So I don't really see this as much of an argument.

[@LimeyLassen]

Maybe they mean that they were better able to cross harsh terrain, before needing to find water or shelter.

[@Tjalve70]

@@LimeyLassen That is possible. But to be honest, I can't see that being such a huge point.

[@John-pe6fw]

I agree, it seems like useless speculation based on the false premise that one needs long legs to travel far distances, bordering on embellishment.

[@ay-dionne]

I can confirm, being a person of short stature (

[@braelynstandish1228]

Always love hearing how excited you were about a new discovery ☺️

[@tommyfrerking]

They're taking the Hobbits to Liang Bua Cave!

[@ponyote]

Here's the long and short of it. Kudos to whomever wrote that joke. I giggled.

[@jayyydizzzle]

Congrats on 8 million subs!

[@rykephoenix]

Was googling Homo floriensis and started to read the first text I saw and read "les fossiles ont été découverts en 2003 dans la grotte de Liang Bua, sur l'ile indonésienne de Florès." at the same time Hank said it (in english) at 00:37 !!! Just a fun thought.

[@janetf23]

Still lovin' your zesty delivery, Hank❣

[@TheJake76]

Everyone always talks about H. Floresiensis, but what about H. Luzonensis? Why is she the Jan Brady of the hobit sized humans?

[@kilppa]

5:40 That does not look like 70% of the size of the bigger animal.

[@MusicalXena]

I wonder if it was supposed to be 17%.

[@tomarty2103]

Does % size mean height or mass/volume?

[@kilppa]

@@tomarty2103 He gave different numbers for size and mass.

[@lung0fish1]

Great video. I love the bit showing that scientists are not only human but can be downright petty drama queens. BUT... I'm pretty sure there's an error around 4:32. There, a H. florensiensis skull is shown next to a skull labeled "H. erectus", but that second skull looks a LOT like Homo sapiens. At 5:09, H. florensiensis is again shown next to H. erectus, but this time the skull looks more like what I expected-- old, stained, with a heavy brow ridge and massive jaw.

[@tumakbaluk]

Melannie, I love your humor, and your bloopers are always gold. I think you would be a fantastic comedian 🧡

[@wyvern723]

My physical anthropology prof had a former student who was involved with some of those digs, he talked about that controversy and there was so much conflict there. Good lord, it was bad.

[@vianandroid]

Why this fossil leading too much conflict? What university that damages the fossil?

[@duck8dodgers]

Thanks for the updates on this fascinating series of discoveries. I was also fascinated about this in the aughts, but didn't know about the newer fossils.

[@Stegouros-ellengassen]

The creative part of my mind now imagines an inter-archipelagan confederation of little people, riding Komodo Dragons and fighting off and hiding from their giant, 2 meter cousins.

[@meganofsherwood3665]

I love it

[@John-pe6fw]

Sounds like a good book series

[@John-pe6fw]

Small avatar

[@madcow3417]

1:35 cooking "big" game. I'm guessing they weren't hunting mammoth, more like a boar.

[@FacelessOfficial1]

2:33-2:37 am I the only one that thinks this is the extremest thing a scientist can do in that context without it being super inapropriate? (which it is to be honest, it's the equivalent of "yeah...reaserch and stuff.. nice try bro")

[@Sumaleth]

Nice to have an update on this old mystery.

[@Sarnarath]

Why does nobody mention they live right next to Komodo island? Scary stuff

[@jaxlockhart518]

one of the most amazing finds of my life time.

[@ikebeckman1074]

I’ve always thought this is where the myth of leprechauns comes from

[@wyocoyotewyocoyote9007]

makes me wonder how much age of motherhood and survival rates of both adults and offspring might affect size.

[@Goatcha_M]

My old palaeontology professor believed firmly they were H. erectus that had suffered island dwarfism, but that really doesn't explain archaic traits like the wrist bones. Maybe they got to SE Asia the same way apes did, trouble is lack of evidence. Oh and I also agree with her that it was H. ergaster that left Africa and then evolved into H. erectus in Asia.

[@KristiChan1]

I remember the drama around when they first found the little hobbit. It was hilarious and eye roll inducing.

[@ryanjoseph8602]

fun fact, Viggo Mortensen actually broke his foot on that helmet

[@gameplayer5260]

😂

[@mbion001]

Hahaha yes!!!

[@rasmustapper9994]

This is gotta be on of the most factuall fact there is

[@kaissos5]

Lol

[@svenmorgenstern9506]

Fun for whom? 😮

[@ScentlessSun]

Do a video on Homo naledi and its burial practices.

[@drbigmdftnu]

Excited to hear there were more finds in 2024. We need more fossils and data points. Great work

[@AbhinavYadav-ce2tx]

I just want to ask If we can (mis)estimate she being 18,000 years ago instead of 60,000 then whay can't we (mis)estimate she being 30 years old instead of 4

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

nods. Because the two estimates are using different data. In the video, he says that there were wisdom teeth in the jaw, so that led to the 30 year old estimate for the age of that individual.

[@AbhinavYadav-ce2tx]

@@geeksdo1tbetter And how do we know that a completely different species also had wisdom teeth coming after adulthood

[@Gilgwathir]

Loving this "content" about "research". Joking aside, excellent video as always.

[@rivercrow8988]

😂😂

[@fikretyet]

Dear Hank Green; why not do the Netflix documentary yourself then? This, definitely is, your cup of tea.

[@katiebaker5662]

I'd watch that

[@nerdyPanda7288]

1:07 She doesn’t look a day over 50,000.

[@danielmadar9938]

Thanks. A correction - the right skull in minute 4:28 is of Homo Sapiens, not Erectus.

[@TomsBackyardWorkshop]

I want a miniature elephant.

[@geeksdo1tbetter]

a puppy sized elephant, perhaps? 😊

[@SydneyLarrikin-ci2vz]

Omg I remember that guy who hoarded the bones. Also we must be about the same age!

[@renaigh]

Little people riding mini-elephants is so much cooler than Tolkien's cottagecore fantasy.

[@bengoodwin2141]

"I was 23, and I read a lot of science news" Hey, just like me!

[@Emblazened]

0:29 You mean the... *tall* and short of it?

[@druidsongevergreens]

I would absolutely watch the netflix special, esp with david attenborough

[@sethsevaroth]

Could it have simply been social ostracization of certain individuals from a tribe that carried some reccessive genes that caused intermittent dwarfism? The proverbial leper colony? Which then established a breeding population with only carriers of the recessive genes?

[@senantiasa]

Then there's also the fact that Indonesians generally are known as (on average) the shortest people on earth. Is that because modern Indonesians are somehow related to homo floriensis or is it because modern Indonesians are not related to them but have also shrunk for the same reason homo floriensis have shrunk (ie. insular dwarfism)?

[@tealkerberus748]

Yeah I don't think they needed long legs to travel from Africa to Asia. If rats and mice can spread from one end of Afro-Eurasia to the other, so can small people. They just need a fairly continuous supply of habitats they can live in and they'll get there eventually.

[@coasterblocks3420]

If you get the History Channel to do the doco then I’m sure they could - would - work in the curse angle.

[@KellyClowers]

Hobbit on the cover image, green logo in the corner… I half expected to hear Robert from In Deep Geek when I clicked this.

[@paigemalloy4276]

Before starting the video, I'm guessing this is going to be about _Homo floresiensis_ (currently learning about early _Homo_ in my Human Origins class 😂) ***CALLED IT!!!*** The most popular hypothesis is that they were derived from _Homo erectus_ that ended up on the island of Flores in Indonesia via a rafting event. They likely shrunk in size due to insular dwarfism. Smaller mammals have a higher chance of survival on islands, because there are fewer resources and even though there is a lot of organic diversity, there wasn't much of each.

[@snellsnell7490]

Hank, I’m so happy to see you enjoying yourself. You love to learn for the sake of learning and that’s a great quality in a person. You take care love you John and your families. Happy Thanksgiving.

[@kioshekat7931]

I was not expecting a science video about hobbits

[@ssmallishplague]

The average Asia male weight is 127lbs. The average weight of an Asia male 4 year old is 40-44lbs. 40/127 =0.315. Nearly exactly the same proportion of weight reduction of the insular dwarfs effect toward the “hobbies”

[@Riever_the_SmUwUg]

Very cool, Have we found any skeletons in Isengard

[@haunting_one]

Naturally, I got this as soon as it was posted lol

[@anyascelticcreations]

Same! Clicked on it immediately.

[@jonunciate7018]

Have they checked for fossils at Isengard? I heard they were taking the Hobits to Isengard.

[@lindaharsh6729]

I've seen so many dinosaur museums display molds of fossils that i have to wonder why there aren't museums about human evolution. It is fascinating to learn about the past. I assume that religious groups would fight against a human evolution museum as hard as they could.

[@DJJD669]

I love it when academic papers basically become diss tracks

[@kataseiko]

How much genetic material is left after all those years? And would it be very bad to de-extinct hominids?

[@shaked2441]

It could be a Nebula documentary :)

[@Omig12]

No way that depiction of Stegadon Florensis is 70% the size of the also presented Mainland ancestor.

[@LordBrittish]

Dungeons and Dragons used to have Hobbits, but shortly after calling them that had to change the name to Halflings. An old computer game series Ultima also had Hobbits in one of the first volumes. Then changed the race name to Bobbits.

[@Zeithri]

And Elves and Fuzzies. Then Lord British went on a genocide spree and the others vanished. wait...

[@FrozEnbyWolf150-b9t]

@@Zeithri No wonder the games make it a challenge to figure out how to do him in. "Yes, that is precisely the thing to do, Avatar."

[@flarvin8945]

I have been playing D&D since around 1979, and halflings were called halflings. So when were they supposedly called hobbits?

[@garethhughes7430]

@@flarvin8945 1978

[@MadMorgie6318]

​@@flarvin8945Before Tolkien's estate got on their case and threatened to sue. Balrogs became Balor and Ents Treant.

[@Braix69]

Finally Something to Watch : )

[@thomyorke7622]

BRUH I just had an exam a week ago with a question on why homo floresiensis were small and why they had a small cranium capacity I was like these guys are cool but I can only guess.

[@foxmanghost1822]

I’m sorry the tools that were left on that island that was me. I traveled back in time. I just forgot to pick them up.😂

[@celestial1989]

I LOVE YOU HANK!

[@megamanx466]

Brain volume doesn't equal brain density or in other words, the number of connections the different areas of the brain make to each other. A smaller human isn't necessarily less intelligent than the largest human. 🤷‍♂

[@mikitz]

Since evolution is about adaptation, it's never a curse.

[@bobthebuilder-chan4769]

Well there might have been an Evolutionary Battle Royale and all the hominids were probably seperate players that evolved seperately, some interbred , some got wiped by others and at end our ancestors found the advantage with bigger brains with a decent size advantage

[@bjdefilippo447]

Shoddy/skewed research methodology really ticks me off. If part of the job is finding truth, those who don't do it correctly are not only wasting time & money, they erode the public's trust in science, scientists, and experts in general.

[@bradiedean7466]

I had no idea these guys were so controversial, but I probably should have after hearing my hominid researcher friend talking about all the other dramas going on in that research area

[@justineb]

Finally some good news 📰

[@leza4453]

But had they hairy feet?

[@Jrpyify]

They may well have had hairy everything.

[@aoifedeborha2420]

Second breakfast?

[@TitularHeroine]

​@@aoifedeborha2420 Of course, because of the evidence of her cooking.

[@GerhardSteinmayer]

Did they smoke weed?

[@4thdimensionalexplorer]

One of my high-school girlfriends was convinced she (and Asians broadly) must have habit DNA like some of us have Neanderthal DNA and that was why she and many Asian people are so much shorter on average. Curious if she still thinks that haha

[@GWNorth-db8vn]

A fair percentage of Asian people who've been fed real food in youth turn out the same height as everyone else.

[@okkasannan]

Can't it be something in local ecology that favors small body size? Modern people living in SEA are among shortest on average. I'd put my bet on heat exchange benefits due to the climate.

[@pinky_pepper]

true per bergmann's rule but that does not necessarily rule out insular dwarfism as seen in other species contemporary to homo floresiensis

[@dylansearcy3966]

4:34 thats homo sapiens on the right

[@FreerunnerDave]

I came for the hobbies, I stayed for the hank!!

[@MawdyDev]

You can't just ask someone why they're small, Hank!

[@StYxXx]

So turns out LB1 wasn't small at all but rather large (for their species)? :D

[@xbadjokerx]

Honest question: you don't pronounce the "cus" in australopithecus? Or is this more like a Benedict Cumberbatch's "penguin" kind of thing? I'm not English native speaker.

[@awolpeace1781]

Rumor his it they still exist staring in underground yakuza videos

[@Sarnarath]

Tiny people living in a big world👍

[@Kissarai]

At what point were the most human species alive at the same time?

[@phileas007]

We've discovered one specimen, yes, but what about second specimen?

[@nerdyPanda7288]

3:24 Same.

[@MarcelinoDanielsson-le4mz]

Everyone, feed your children half the caloric requirement since birth and we can have the hobbits back. Give them half of what an adult would eat from the start, they'll eat what they can, that'll be all.

[@EbyKat]

“Research” is hilarious but also has science learned NOTHING from the bone wars? Get it together science!

[@Philosophical_Supremacy]

It was a curse 🤣🤣🤣 this is your best joke yet

[@bigal2876]

I don’t know. This is all above my pay grade.

[@goosenotmaverick1156]

Dang 37 seconds! 😮

[@zevfeitelson]

I think we are ruling out the idea that these were the hobbits and Tolkien was telling a real story The world grew into ours