Scott Horton - Ukraine War - Did the United States Provoke it & Want it All Along?

[@BeginnerDude]

Thank you for having Scott on

[@boycotte]

Damn, Scott is prepared✌

[@raywolff9886]

It was going so well until Noam went to the BS “How do you answer for these people” tactic around 46 minutes in. People are tired of these Childish antics. Good to see Noam called out for this BS by Scott.

[@michaeljames8410]

Your "quote" is nowhere in the video. And what's wrong with getting someones opinion on what the biggest commentators on the planet are saying about the subject they're discussing?

[@billusher2265]

46:09 people aren’t saying Netanyahu propping up Hamas caused Oct 7, they’re saying it indicates the economic punishment of Gaza was not based on security and his intention was obstructing peace to keep expanding settlements.

[@abbaeben6409]

October 7th changed all prior calculations

[@billusher2265]

@@abbaeben6409 it didn’t

[@FreedomFox1]

A peace deal was negotiated two months into this war. According to mediator, Naftali Bennett It was the US and the UK that throttled peace. He couldn’t explain why, except to say that it might be to send a message to China.

[@samengland3729]

Scott Horton dwarfs Noam intellectually. Watching this interview is like watching Mike Tyson fight my mother in law

[@Samuel-vw2wy]

See if you can host a discussion between Benny Morris, Ilan Pappe, and Avi Shlaim, the living new historians.

[@bryanwagner289]

That would be epic

[@tertiusduplessis2581]

BRICS loves scotty! Go my boy....write more 'factual' books. People believe what they read.

[@jamesshepherd555]

Watch it Scott, Hillary throwing the weight of her gigantic stomach around joining forces with Vicki's gigantic stomach would be no match for you pal !!!

[@ROBOTRIX_eu]

[@BeachVolleyB]

1:41:00 “I’ll do you a solid and I’ll cut that clip into this interview before I post it”. Blank screen at the end… At what temperature is your “solid” actually solid, cause there are just fumes here.

[@comedycellarclips]

KZbin wouldn't allow it.

[@joge2468]

100% correct on timelines. It’s just 20/20 hindsight. You choose the events that you can argue are causally related to those that follow.

[@ad5792]

Almost impossible job for Scott, to get through such and indispensable and exceptional hypocrite!

[@Trenl7]

There's a difference between speaking logically vs. Not having any evidence for what he says about why people do things (psychology) when you HAve no evidence and are swept away by actual experts' just so stories-he is a lot of just stories hot air.

[@areaunderthecurve9918]

Noam is dumb.

[@joge2468]

I’m not sure what litigating the causes of WWII has to do with Ukraine/Russia now, but whatever. I’m a decently bright person, and I don’t understand either the “no wwii, no hcaust” argument, which so many actual historians (as opposed to Pat Buchanan) have rebutted, nor the point in arguing it. I’m afraid we’re missing the forest for the trees: Why is questioning who the malevolent actors were in WWII and the veracity of the Hcaust part of the _current_ zeitgeist? What is going on culturally?

[@pauloalex4899]

Well, as for the Hcaust thing, I have a hunch. People are starting to question whether it really happened because the jewish state of Israel for the past almost 80 years has been doing to other people what was allegedly done to them during WWII. They have occupied palestinian territories for 57 years, thrown palestinians into ghettos (just like jews in Poland), treated them as second-class citizens in their own land, forcibly sterilized ethiopian immigrants (or "strongly suggested that they sterilize themselves," as israeli media reported), among other things comparable to what the germans did. Plus, in many countries, even questioning the veracity of the Hcaust is severely punished. Just to be clear, I believe the Hcaust happened and that it was an abomination against humanity, but the jews themselves, especially the israelis, are not helping their case.

[@joge2468]

@ Can you explain where there are ghettos and how they’re treated as second class citizens? I’m also confused about the Ethiopian sterilization stuff. It doesn’t really make sense. Why would Izzz airlift them home and then sterilize them? They could have just left them in Africa. My understanding is that there was zero evidence for any state-run sterilization program, but that it was likely _some_ women didn’t fully understand what they were being given.

[@pauloalex4899]

@@joge2468 Just look at how plestinians are treated in Israeli-occupied west bank cities like Hebron and Bethlehem. While jewish settlers are free to roam the occupied west bank without any hindrance, palestinians are forbidden from walking, driving, and opening businesses on certain streets, there are gated communities exclusively for jews, palestinians have to pass through numerous IDF checkpoints, and are often arrested at these checkpoints, expelled from their own lands by jewish settlers, etc.

[@pauloalex4899]

@@joge2468 Regarding forced sterilizations of immigrants, there is evidence that israeli clinics forced ethiopian immigrants to take contraceptives, and this is evidenced, among other things, by the rapid decline in the birth rate of these immigrants. Why would Israel do this? I don't know, maybe for the same reason the germans did it to them? They learned from the best.

[@samengland3729]

The h-cost was at the end of the war . When Germany was getting pounded by the allies. So the argument was that it wouldn't have happened if the war didn't happen , seeing as how it happened at the back end of a war in which they were being soundly defeated.

[@andileyenana5375]

Need proof, when the other truth hits you squarely in your face.... interruptions orchestrated so your team can pump your side videos, clips..... destruction tactics galoure.

[@marcchieppa9683]

Poor Scott

[@Jilke1989]

Scott please get some sleep, healthy food and go outside!!! I've known about you for 1 week now, you have aged 10 years in 7 days. when was the last time you saw sunlight?

[@jamesleet8330]

Major red flag for me that Horton tried to manipulate Churchill's "unnecessary war" quote in the same way that many unsavory characters do. Good job by Noam to call him out on it right away.

[@NoMercyMike626]

Another red flag is how much he hides behind "look at how many footnotes I have" builds trust and allows people to assume he's retelling these facts accurately, but I wonder how many quotes he manipulates and uses out of context to fit his narrative

[@samengland3729]

there are multiple Churchill quotes referencing " the unnecessary war. Scott was referring to a different quote numb nuts

[@comedycellarclips]

No, there are not. He was referring to the one in Buchanan's book, which is the one I read. You are 100% wrong.

[@pauliwoolw5809]

It’s absurd how u try&wrangle your guests 2trash Candace! Stop being a baby&invite Candace on 2defend her own positions.

[@comedycellarclips]

It's not absurd. Any camp that includes her as a member in good standing, cannot complain about bigotry or lies in others. Why would any decent person have the slightest problem acknowledging that what she's saying runs from insane to pure uncut anti-semitism?

[@XxTheBrucesterxX]

Its actually the bare minimum

[@Trenl7]

He isn't a historian he is a Just So Story Bookseller

[@hammerhead2362]

What a clown

[@TheCruxy]

Waaaaa what about these other peoples words

[@gskills55]

Gotta love Scott - "what the fuck Noam you're just gonna play clips of other people and expect me to answer for them!?.... and also I do agree with everything they said and their audiences make up 99.9% of my book sales so Candace and Tucker if you're listening to this please read my book... But yeah so bad faith Noam jeez"

[@NoMercyMike626]

This guy spews every single Russian talking point there is

[@marcchieppa9683]

Was "Iraq doesn't have WMDs" a Saddam talking point?

[@Finallymademyaccount]

"Iraq doesn't have WMDs" wasn't an Iraqi generated talking point. Russian generated talking points include: "Ukraine is run by Nazis", "Crimea voted to be a part of Russia", "The Maidan Revolution was the result of US intervention", etc. There was active disagreement from good faith parties over the WMDs in Iraq in 2003. In 2024, only bad faith actors perpetuate the Russian generated talking points. There is too much verifiable, 3rd party information debunking them. If this explanation doesn't move the needle for you, what information would be required to do so?

[@hyperbeast134]

@@Finallymademyaccounthahahah good faith? your hilarious bro

[@BeachVolleyB]

This is a logical fallacy. Even if they were all Russian talking points, it doesn’t make them wrong.

[@Finallymademyaccount]

​@@BeachVolleyB I agree. However, when someone's argument consistently overweights the value of one country's propaganda, it indicates an overall bias. OP is making the point that Horton's arguments are consistently made up of talking points originating from Russia. I expect OP's implication was that Russia has a track record of promoting blatantly false information, as determined from 3rd party analysis. There is also plenty of discourse online, such as Horton's debates with Ferguson & Clark, which debunk the individual claims made. As such, constructing one's arguments with information which is known to be untrustworthy is worth calling out. There was dissent in 2003 in America about whether WMDs were in Iraq. The government was wrong to make that their official stance, and people are free in America to point that out. The same reflection does not take place in Russia.

[@spencerlane2871]

I find it fascinating that Scott, who never fails to boast about how he's such a knowledgeable expert about all this obscure, esoteric information and has such a great command of the facts, can't provide even a basic explanation about the Second World War or Winston Churchill--ya know, only one of the most important events and consequential human beings in human history. Has Scott never read a single book about WW2?

[@EnigmaPeePee]

Winston Churchill has several ”unnecessary war” quotes. And even being wrong on one account unrelated to this war doesn’t disprove his points. Even ChatGPT when pointed out the chronology up to the war proves a great proportion of what he is saying. Even I knew what he thinks to know before 2014 when Ukraine made a parlamentary coup both not following article 111 , not having enough votes to oust then current president that fled to eastern Ukraine that was pro Russia and less of a threat to his life. Only than did he flee to Russia. I can see a very clear buildup to the conflict from poroshenko waiting war against the autonomous peoples republics that Putin told no to annexation to Russia than; look up poroshenkos speech which led to Donetsk and Luhansk then cutting electricity, pensions and anything for people who had worked in Ukraine who just wanted independence from western Ukraine that committed a coup by not following the constitution . Also look for archived article of not only when azov told to Zelenskyy on camera to go pound dirt, that if he interfered they would hang him from a tree. Azov naturally inclined to being the spearhead against Easter Ukraine; because unlike non Nazis who considered them a part of Ukraine, they considered non Ukrainians due to ethnonstionalistic sentiments

[@Lurch685]

Maybe this wasn’t a discussion about WWII?

[@user-sx4cz5yc4f]

your guest supports Max Blumenthal and his lies and repeats after them which really says it all.

[@bryanmurray9846]

What are the lies Max tells?

[@user-sx4cz5yc4f]

atrocious guest