Is it worth sticking around for Cataclysm?

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[@Scottejaye]

You can now find me streaming here --- > kick.com/scottejaye

[@odyseeone]

My unpopular opinion > Cata was when WOW actually became good. It was also when the majority of WOW players became JADED! the original wow veterans became JADED at this point that's why the subscription dropoff began at this point NOT because it was a bad expansion. WOTLK had done a great job at satisfying what people wanted from an MMORPG, and Cataclysm became superfluous. Think of it like a night out getting drunk with friends, it's awesome for a few hours (Vanilla and BC), then it drags on and you start to get tired, then soo tired that you begin to pass out and you want nothing more then to get home to your bed. Well WOTLK was the pinnacle of a drunk night out, and Cataclysm is the point at which you begin to pass out and want nothing more than to get home to your bed, the fun has finished by this point.

[@ameliabright3519]

As a younger player (I'm 23), I'm pumped for Cataclysm Classic. Vanilla, TBC and Wrath have been interesting to check out how WoW was before I ever played, but Cataclysm is the game of my childhood. I remember sitting on my mum's lap running around in circles on a worgen. So excited

[@Pvstt]

Lol awesome! I quit durint tbc/start of wotlk when i was 15. Never played again untill Classic TBC. Even if it was only for a week, and am now playing Wotlk😂 i quit during wotlk back in da day

[@HiImRawr]

Cataclysm is the expansion that started killing wow. There are definitely worse ones, but it was the start of the downfall. This seems to be a pretty normative take I see. Everyone who likes cataclysm seems to be in their young 20s.

[@hyrule4837]

@@HiImRawr Completely disagree. I began playing right at the end of Wrath when I was young and Cata had some amazing content. Great raids, so much content to do. Dragon Soul is hands down my favorite raid as at the time we were 5/8 heroic trying to down the last few bosses and my god it was my best ever gaming experience to date more than 10 years later.

[@HiImRawr]

@hyrule4837 luckily blizzard still reported numbers back then and cata was the beginning of the downfall. Wrath was the peak and maintained the peak for the entire expansion.

[@hyrule4837]

@@HiImRawr Yes I remember that but it takes away from such a fantastic expansion. Most people that didnt enjoy it had a really bad guild or bad group of friends to play with. I had such solid groups of people to play with that it enhanced every single aspect of the game 10 fold. I am biased since I began wow in cata but after playing all the classic launches I still miss cata and has been my #1 gaming experience ever.

[@ChessJew]

Everyone knows that Firelands is great, but the first raid tier of Cata is legit amazing. Three raid zones, all thematically different and not a bad fight in any of them.

[@Donnerbalken28]

Except Wyrmbreaker. Fuck that boss, who is sometimes literally impossible to do on certain weeks, and hilariously easy on others.

[@Jspath3]

IMO Firelands was not great, you could do normal mode with your entire raid in green gear.. then you get to see Ragnaros with his tiny baby legs lol.. I agree the first raids were entertaining, the throne of four winds was a nightmare for your RL trying to coordinate all of the platforms. I enjoyed Cata because the questing was fun, and getting to see Azeroth in a new form was nice. However, like all of classic WoW, there is less heart and soul in the game now. The community vibe is very different. The community is all about stacking gearscore, farming/buying gold and raid logging immediately after clearing content after its only been out for a month. I expect a ton of people to perma quit WoW after they clear ICC.

[@conorf8091]

@@Jspath3104 wipes on rag normal back in the day. PTSD

[@Elaksomfan]

@@Jspath3 as opposed to how it is now in wrath 😂? We as players are alot more cata then we are vanilla nowadays

[@Jspath3]

​@@Elaksomfan that's probably accurate.

[@Conflict39]

been waiting for a video just like this to explain all the changes, appreciate it

[@timschwarz1386]

If you want to do more Cataclysm videos, i suggest, that you start with some, that talk about what things to experience and get, before it is gone. The "war of the shifting sands"-questchain is very long, so you may want to do it and get the items it offers, a bit earlier than just 1 month before cata. Same goes for things like the ZG tiger or other items, that have low drop chances.

[@Scottejaye]

Good idea mate, thanks for the input. I'll defo do that!

[@jamesgibbs5577]

ZG tiger disappears in Cata? my luck better improve soon

[@debatinghealer]

I hope they change that about the ZG tiger etc just like they're doing with ony

[@timschwarz1386]

@@debatinghealer Same. But with no informations either way, i always try to prepare for the worst, so i am best prepared :)

[@arrowman3848]

you have.... some weird ass grammar brah

[@k9tirion927]

Not having to bother organizing 25 man cuz 10 man drops the same loot is a huge deal for me.

[@troydenbrum2979]

You lose out on loot in the long run though because of the # of chances you get at each piece per week.

[@k9tirion927]

@@troydenbrum2979 In theory yes but not in my personal case. I'm in one of those casual mom/dad guilds with a bunch of friends who still hasn't gotten algalon down yet, player skill is ranging pretty wildly and with 2x 10man groups the more "serious" group would clear stuff way faster.

[@jakedanger99]

Same. Needing to organize 25 mans for BiS gear is a huge pain.

[@troydenbrum2979]

@K9 Tirion you'd lose out on gear even if you'd only be killing one easy boss per week, so in every case, yes

[@starsareangels7]

Seems kinda redundant to me to have different loot though too it's the same raid... 25 man's are even easier a lot of the time

[@TheFalopi]

I feel the same way about the heirlooms, i love the xp boosts but hate not getting upgrades while leveling. That's part of the fun to me is upgrading gear as I go. When the gear just upgrades with you it feels like something is missing.

[@gangaskahn1976]

its only a few pieces, you still upgrade 80% of your gear

[@DuduDruidDotCom]

Firelands and Dragon Souls were some of the most fun raids I ever got to play. On the topic of levelling in Cata: Cataclysm was the expansion where I levelled all of my classes to 85. I repeated it in MoP, albeit very reluctantly, and I never repeated it again.

[@hyrule4837]

Dragon Soul and especially heroic was such a challenge it made the game infinitely better. in my guild it would take us a month of raiding to down the next heroic boss and it was so extremely satisfying with the perfect mix of pain and pleasure.

[@naejimba]

I was close with having everything at cap in Cata except Rogue and Warlock were at 80. MoP I had full 90s and I never bothered past that point. Cata especially is a great expansion for alts.

[@TerraOblivion27]

Cata leveling was enjoyable. I remember tanking Dragon Soul on LFR when it first came out. Kept wiping on the final Deathwing fight. Tank after tank left and finally I decided to que up as tank. I explained the fight to everyone and did my best to make sure they knew what to do. Whispered the other tank and said “wish me luck lol” First time go. Got that sweet Polearm for my Druid too

[@jessew3047]

cataclysm had the best resto shaman design the game ever had. telluric currents makes resto shaman feel incredibly rewarding to play.

[@Zanaze_banane]

That's wonderful to hear, I switched to rest shammy in Mists and am looking forward to playing it in Cata!

[@meta1152]

I did enjoy the interrupt abilities gaining a damage buff. Rewards for paying attention instead of tunnelling on the parses.

[@shoelesshobo7744]

The death of hybrid was a real thing back in the day as it meant the end of the down to Mut then full Sub PvP rogue build, The Shoackadin build for PvP and the Hybrid Balance/Resto build. Which now may seem trivial but at the time were very beloved specs that got taken out.

[@aliawada3553]

Thanks for this fantastic video! I'm new to classic (coming over from retail). Not sure what to play though, Classic Vanilla, SOD or should i dip my toes into WOTLK? Is it worth getting into WOTLK now with CATA classic coming out with all these new additions and etc..? thanks!

[@darkfire8008]

I'm hoping that Classic would do Cata well. Especially for all the players that weren't there for the launch. Though, on of my only gripes about Cata was it changed a few of my favorite dungeons, even though I was hype about their heroic mode.

[@dwoodward931]

Cata was my favorite expansion. It had the best and least grindy progression system for alt characters.

[@hyrule4837]

Couldnt agree more! I remember when I was doing Heroic Dragon Soul on my warrior and I was bored so I lvled a DK (I had gold so I purchased some stuff) but in 1 week I did raid finder, 8/8 dragon soul, spammed heroic and got an absolute tonne of loot. My 2nd week into tanking I was already 1/8 heroic Dragonsoul and geared for the content. Such a fun time, my favorite expansion also.

[@naejimba]

Yeah can we just agree gearing was near perfect around Cata/MoP? Simple emblem system, previous tier bought for Justice, good PvP starting sets from professions and easy PvP gearing. Reforging was amazing. DETERMINISTIC loot without additional layers of RNG. Bonuses so you wanted to wear your armor class, which fixed much of the loot drama and awkward stuff. Spirit made to give hit for Ele/Boomie/Shadow which was one of the best gearing changes they ever made. Some will say removal of things like armor pen was removing complexity, but 1) now it is possible to relatively balance specs (which went along with the fixing of scaling issues of some specs like Ele this expansion), 2) They added in a new stat mastery that is the most complex they've ever had. I think the gearing was a good middle ground just how most of Wrath overall is the nice middle ground for most players. I would like to see something like the "PvP Power" stat they had in MoP on top of this (and the PvP 2/2 trinket bonus) and it would be amazing (5.4.8 had the most objectively balanced PvP season overall regardless of opinions on it). I think something like a SWtOR bar instead of the usual DR system could fix the CC in PvP, but now we're going beyond the original topic. =)

[@G2Bryce]

Then you are apart of the problem lol

[@adamortiz9292]

how are they?

[@emmaeltringham91]

@@adamortiz9292 They are part of the problem because it made levelling so easy to help those wanting flavour of the month raiders at the expense of people who didn't want to raid. introducing LFR was a push to make everyone raid, but all it did was make those who don't raid leave because they made professions and levelling much worse for those people. We all left and of course the raiders started to leave as content was completed. This is when WoW went into decline.

[@jordangaudio6729]

Mop I raid lead heroics was an absolute amazing time. I actually loved SoO

[@rallius8629]

Great summary, the main take away imo was guild building stuff where there's direct benefits from doing guild activities. It catered to everyone really, for example - after grand marshall, gladiator etc in the OG version I was really over pvp but the guild contained ppl who were still really keen to they were able to do the pvp guild 'chieves while the hardcore raiders among us could do the raiding achieves. Stocking the guild bank with consumes etc had direct benefits and it's hard to remember a time where the guild felt so relevant to WoW. Having relived Classic to Wrath now I recall some of the very best things about Cata. I really only play for raiding now and Cata raid designs are among the best there ever were.

[@skyclaw36]

i like the 1st two phases in cata. So ill stick around for that. After that its up in air

[@jdg_9]

exactly the game aint worth playing after rag dies.

[@Tijuanabill]

After playing Cata Firelands, are we all going over to play the first tier of swtor classic?

[@urganp2798]

I loved cata and mop and lets be honest some of the best raiding ever was in cata and mop

[@brandonkruse6412]

Finally someone who knows what they’re talking about 🎉

[@Edigor100]

havent played cata but 100% agree on mop, the raids were amazing

[@jamesw8698]

so as a guild everyone has to work to unlock the pants or you yourself have to have alts in the guild with all the professions and work your way up?

[@Spanakopitaa]

Thanks for all the effort you put in this video

[@Keygo]

I feel like Cata gets a lot of bandwagon hate. I'm personally excited for Cata. 10 man raiding alone is pretty enticing!

[@Travybear1989]

Not interested personally, hate what the expansion did to the overworld and to be frankly honest... everything after vanilla just slowly destroyed the game. TBC introduced Outlands which divided the playerbase between Azeroth and Outlands and made nearly everything in the base game obsolete. WOTLK further expanded on this issue by introducing Northrend which even further divided the playerbase whilst making both Outlands and Azeroth obsolete. Cata did the same, etc so on and so forth. Instead of just adding content to Azeroth for everyone to enjoy such was gatekept until you reach the later levels of the game, then you add in the daily's and expanded rep grind as well as having to gear up again, and again, and again, and again to the point of absurdity. Eventually the playerbase was so split that the social aspect of the game died and these days you rarely even see other players in the overworld unless you are in a capital city. Blizzard just screwed up horribly over time and neglected what truly made WoW special in the first place, socialization, grouping, and ambiance. I've been on vanilla classic since it relaunched and it's been relatively dead due to most hitting the cap and transferring off the servers. Tempted to play on private servers at this point as the game is a ghost town.

[@deaconfrost796]

well that is the expansion that started the downhill of player count going from 12mil at end of wrath down to 9 mil near end of cata. I only spiked up a little in the very last quarter because of mop about to come out but that was brief as it continued the descend down to 6.5 mil. there were some things i liked about cata but there was still a lot that was terrible.

[@Oxmosh]

@@deaconfrost796 alot of the reason why cata went downhill was because of wrath ... those bad systems were introduced in wrath ... and the bad ones from cataclysm were literally at the end of the expansion.

[@deaconfrost796]

@@Oxmosh Wrath was by far the most liked expansion ever in wow period. Its not even close. Not really sure what you mean by bad systems. I loved every aspect of wrath which is why im playing now and then quitting like many will once its done. Pretty much all of my guild has zero interest in cata or anything later. Ive met some here and there that are interested but its been few and far between.

[@Oxmosh]

@@deaconfrost796 i aint saying wrath was bad, im saying thats where they started introducing the bad systems, and I feel like most people hating on cataclysm either didnt play it, or remember it for the worst reasons, the first 2 raid tiers were awesome, dragon souls is where it started going down the shitters with the raid being not that fun, and LFR releasing, and the raid lasting way too long. The dungeons in cataclysm were great also, probably the best we've got difficulty wise .. I just hate that most people wont give it a chance because of something they dont remember well, and just band wagon on the thing just for the sake of it.

[@astupidmonkeyygaming544]

I started in Classic WOW, and I'm excited to fly in SW. I can't wait to experience the new content. I have 4 characters now, and that's a lot for me. I had to learn a lot and did every quest on my Mage. Watched a ton of lore videos and how everything is now in modern WOW. I am excited and definitely will play Cata. Sweet old world flying. Cannot wait.

[@astralfields]

Same. Though to be quite honest, as a Horde player, I'm not too excited about the Orgrimmar redesign. It's ugly. Old Orgrimmar has a cozy fortified village aesthetic, new Orgrimmar is just metal plate and spike overload. Like whoever rebuilt the city had more steel available than sense. And navigating it without flying is an absolute pain.

[@astupidmonkeyygaming544]

@@astralfields I'm just excited because this is all new to me. I haven't seen the new Org so I cannot really say anything but those changes sound really good.

[@rantpa1337]

I hate it... because then there is nothing more special about it. Instead of making some old grind more bearable and uplift it, fix old bugs, they come up with new crap. I left because of cata, and the gonna loose me again.

[@brandonkruse6412]

@@rantpa1337 Go play private servers if you’re going to be so negative and want to play the old game on repeat lol

[@rantpa1337]

@@brandonkruse6412 If they keep on changing it, what exactly remains from the advertised WOTLK classic? This is exactly what got me playing again. The promise of a CLASSIC game experience. Go play retail then, if you don't want to play that boring old stuff over and over again. You can fly there, join a server now ;-)

[@PinQuP]

Excellent video mate!

[@xdenisx411]

Great video, i was skeptical about Cata for quite a while but I never even checked anything, i just heard stuff from streamers or other players... This helped a lot and im really really hyped for it right now, cant wait!

[@knor6469]

Thanks for this video, the talents and special abilities you immediately get upon choosing a spec sounds so amazing

[@Full_Throttle_Twaddle]

I like the part where you said a holy pally wont be taking cloth from a mage or a warlock for the 5% stat bonus, while showing a holy pally in cata wearing a cloth belt, leather legs and mail boots.

[@Elaksomfan]

There is a difference between leveling and endgame. I assume his statement was in relation to endgame. While leveling im betting you wont have access to good peices in all slots of the same type

[@Scottejaye]

Exactly what Arvid said. Plus the fact that cloth belt i bought off the vendor wasn't limited supply was it, it didn't take it from a mage or warlock lol.....

[@drinks1550]

I can’t help but feel as he excitedly proclaims that some features will be coming that will help gold sellers or expedite the levelling process that these are the exact types of things we used classic as a medium to escape from. I don’t like retail leveling nearly as much as classic and even the little things like hunters having arrows to care for adds to its phenomenology. I am glad it has its audience but I think it will become very quickly apparent how dead cataclysm classic is gonna feel compared to classic, TBC Classic or Wrath Classic

[@Placeholderhandle1]

I had so many great memories of this expansion, as it was my first time I played with any degree of seriousness. What a time to play!

[@marcrenshaw3444]

I'm looking forward to cata because back in 2010 my PC struggled but managed to handle wrath on min settings but cata was a step too far for it and it kept overheating and crashing whenever i was raiding. As i was a student i couldn't replace it, so all i could do was the heroics and arena. So being able to raid those raids I missed while also having a view distance longer than the end of my... will be great. My thoughts on cata was that blizzard tried to listen amd give us everything we wanted but when we got it we realised we liked some of it better the way it was. being able to fly while levelling ruined the immersion, the underwater zone missed the mark a bit and pugging harder heroics became a daily torture even though they werent as hard as tbc hcs. With patches being released faster in classic it should be really fun this time round

[@Tijuanabill]

FYI, we will be playing Cata on the current retail client, like all Classic xpacs, not what existed back then. So even if your PC can own the actual Cata raid you did before, your current day PC will need to own retail raids, in order to own Cata raids.

[@brandonkruse6412]

@@Tijuanabill While that is technically true, Cata does not have the same detail and fidetlity that Retail has. If your PC can handle Wrath, it can handle Cata just fine.

[@Tijuanabill]

@@brandonkruse6412 Yes, as time marches on the models become more high resolution.

[@TheDerpp]

I played OG Cata and ill play it again, but man, these changes. Idk man. They could probably be seen as objectively better, but idk man. I actually LIKE the "inconveniences" of Vanilla-->Wrath. No more weapon skills, automatic FPs, every dungeon quest AT the dungeon, talent changes, the visual procs... Everything just feels like its being handed to you, instead of getting that feeling of accomplishment and preparedness, however minor, from things like doing your due diligence and making sure you have all the dungeon quests you want. Or leveling all those weapon skills. Or having to see a class trainer for every little thing. The changes may be better systematically or whatever you wanna call it, in terms of pure game design, but on a psychological/emotional level its a huge detraction

[@emanuelalonso8875]

will cata pre patch already have the new leveling changes or i need to wait for full expansion release? wanted to do new darkshore on pre patch

[@nairav9156]

Even if you get a Quest/Dungeon drop stronger when your Heirloom, do you wanna miss out on the exp? And how much longer till it's worse because the Heirloom levels along side you

[@arianahicks8081]

loved this video and i cant wait to raid in cata

[@reallyhotsalsa]

I personally feel like Cata had a lot of good things, but too many things were changed. There were a lot of quality of life changes (the stuff we use addons to replicate in WotLK), but the feel of the game changed a lot. The stats, the large health pools, etc. If I had my way, it would come out as a new take on it that feels more like wrath with the quality of life adjustments of cata. The way they simplified talents in Cata is what lead to the OVER-simplified MoP talents, which is a big part of what killed the game for me.

[@RagingDamage]

But wrath is dogshit

[@brandonkruse6412]

Talents in MoP are way more interesting imo. You actually have a choice on a boss per boss basis of 3 talents per tier. For example, for AoE dungeon farming, the Barrage talent was amazing for Survival Hunters but for raiding, right before you got to boss, Glaive Toss or the flock of crows were best for single target.

[@HiImRawr]

True that man, surprisingly a lot of 20 year Olds seem to play wotlk classic and they love cataclysm simplicity and more mainstream feel overall. I think classic dies at cataclysm just like original wow began to

[@HallyVee]

*Large* health pools? Like on bosses or leveling? Cata was the first expansion I was able to literally global an equal level mob.

[@HiImRawr]

@@HallyVee both

[@PandaCubsie]

What you mentioned about gold sellers making guilds to get gold from people leveling, is why they removed that feature later on. It probably won't be added back in for Cata Classic

[@martintrodler]

great narrative style mate. Little jokes like RFK entrance and Mastery section are pure gold. xD

[@Scottejaye]

Appreciate it mate and glad you enjoyed it

[@Schon1Kevin]

people who claim that cata was "the end" are flatout baf players who got frustrated over their own failures. cata is the expansion where the game started to require somewhat of skill compared to vanilla. bosses finally started to have some mechanics that were punishing.

[@Broxerlol]

I'm sure some will enjoy it but I'm going back to era and hoping for a new SoM. Cata isn't terrible but it just isn't for me. I do like some of the changes but I believe a lack of quality of life is important for the sense of community. If all you care about is raiding then sure, cata will be nice. To me, the sense of community is the basis that makes everything else worthwhile and I just don't feel it after TBC.

[@moeinmiller2533]

im excited for cata tbh ! tnx for the video

[@cookie_dough6605]

Amazing video scotte 💙 you are the best

[@timschwarz1386]

My main issue with Cataclysm always has been the removal of the old world. I like the new content. I just hate it, if they remove content.However... this time around, it not only is possible for them to leave in the old world (with bronze dragons) or at least some old content (leave old ZA and ZG in the game, like it will be with Onyxia coming soon), we also can just enjoy the old world on era servers. So if that itch for the old world needs to be scratched again, i can just jump into era servers and enjoy myself.

[@juhomantynen4638]

Exactly. I find myself often leveling toons in Era servers just for that classic feel, which for me is lost in WotLK already. The modernizing truly started in WotLK and not in Cata like people tend to think. Same goes for Cata, I have great nostalgia for it and will go through the content, but Era will always be there for scratching that specific itch.

[@DC-op7wu]

I have a legit question for you. Are you primarily someone who just makes characters over and over, or do you consider yourself a "Raider"?

[@kaicoldfell5455]

we will have been in the old world for 6 years, its enough mate.

[@DC-op7wu]

@@kaicoldfell5455 preach my brother

[@timschwarz1386]

@@DC-op7wu I am raiding weekly on my main character, so yes, i would consider myself a Raider. I also enjoy leveling new and new characters. Leveling is, imo, a very fun thing to do.

[@NorthstriderGaming]

Cataclysm is a fantastic expansion that just fell short in the endgame because it had to trade some of it for a reworked early game (which was desperately needed). However, that expansion laid all foundations that modern wow uses to this day.

[@Kewlandos]

What about proffesions perks i cata? i totally forgot have they will work out

[@gypsyviking2698]

Loved playing Ret paladin in cata & mop so can't wait to play it again

[@horstwurst3131]

I'm playing it right now on a private server: In hindsight, Cataclysm was bomb. Some of the best leveling experience, so much quality of live, while also having enough to do, great raids and classes. The worst thing about cata was the content drought at the end and we won't have that on a classic server.

[@naejimba]

^This. Last raiding tier is a bit of a dud as well IMO which combined with the content drought really made people hate the xpac.

[@ronodon18]

also a lot of class identity is getting lost. this kind of designway made the today retail that alot didnt like. there are a lot of reasons why people play classic.@@naejimba

[@naejimba]

​@@ronodon18 , it is a balancing act between giving people tools they need to be competitive in PvE and PvP and making them unique. With that said, I don't think classes are in a bad spot in that regard in Cata. This was back when we still had both totems that you had to drop that were later turned into CDs but still BEFORE Shamans got a stun. Only three specs (including Hunters) could cast while moving, instead of practically all of them or none of them which is usually the case. DKs had Necrotic Strike which was super unique and absorbed incoming healing, and had a very unique tool in Dark Simulacrum. However this was BEFORE they were given a stun like everyone else. So sure, Ret got an interrupt and Rogues got a disarm, but that doesn't make either of those specs feel the same as others. I think a big part of this critique comes from the rise of secondary resources on a lot of specs, and on that point I'd agree 100%. I think the heart of that issue is really with how mana works (TLDR PvE and PvP have different lengths of fights, hybrids need to be viable but kept in check, but the stat is effected by gear and scales unlike something like Energy or Focus). Making everyone have similar secondary resources as a band aid fix is lazy, and this is valid critique. They messed with hybrids and damage this xpac and you can see in MoP they shifted to a version assuming healers always had unlimited mana. I STILL say that mana is the core problem, and if they would have focused on that it would have been a better solution and allowed for more differences in class design. For instance, let's first imagine you have the PvP Power stat from MoP (decreases damage taken from players and increases damage and healing done to players). On top of that, make it so gear no longer increases your mana baseline and limit it to a single stat like Spirit for regen. For hybrids, their heals are expensive, but doing damage gives them some mana back naturally. These are the best candidates for secondary resources as they often can be spent on either damage, healing, utility, or CC. But for the love of god NOT ALL specs have to have it. In PvE, casters and healers want Spirit so they can go for longer without running out of mana. However, in PvP the fights don't last as long, they want to exchange any Spirit for PvP Power. THAT would have solved the core problem with mana. From that point, if you want it to be something the player manages, you can give them tools to do so but for god's sake make them UNIQUE. Warlock was a great example and I don't think they needed a secondary resource unless you really wanted to distinguish the specs from one another for flavor. Now the last thing I would want done differently is to fix the issues with CC: everyone needs it to be viable solo and in 1v1 and to be useful in groups, but everyone feels like they have to have all the same tools to balance it and giving everyone those tools means there is too much CC. The core problem here is how long any one player can be chain CC'd, and also how often as a percentage time they spend in CC. In addition, the best comps are determined by which specs CC play well together being in different DR catagories. The solution was done a long time ago with the bar that SWtOR had. Certain CC would have to be more or less effective in raising these bars on a case by case basis (as just copy/pasting it onto WoW breaks PvP), but this is a much better STARTING point. In addition, this bar can be used defensively to make certain specs less effected by CC and on a case by case basis. You don't have to give EVERYONE a ton of CC if they are just less effected by it and have ways to force a kill. On the other hand you are free to give any spec as much CC as they need, and the bar keeps it in check naturally, adjusting to fit the situation. Really a beautiful and elegant solution, especially since the players can all SEE it without addons. I could go on, but suffice to say such a system could give tanks an actual role in PvP by having more effective CC and being less resistant to it (Warhammer Online is a great example of the other changes you would need where you actually protect people and can bully enemies) but I guess we can't expect that much from a small indie company like Blizzard. =/

[@axl4394]

6:45 better than it is right now in wrath where you cant aoe until level 71

[@sundertooth1666]

I'm already excited for Cata again, but this video made me more excited!

[@OrionStarzz]

Nice video mate, completly forgot sbout some of these changes 👍

[@privatebandana]

Hell no, when wotlk is done I'm out. Cata made me quit the game originally so going through that again is like asking to be tortured. I don't even think I would return for classic+ simply because Blizzard couldn't even tinker with one single ability (faerie fire) without fucking shit up, so classic+ would just disappoint before even being released lol.

[@pedrozapata2570]

After many years and after seeing many opinions on cata. I still don’t know what was wrong with the expansion

[@HiImRawr]

You'll understand once you finally play it

[@seanwilliams7655]

There's nothing "wrong" with it. It just appeals to a different audience than Vanilla and TBC did.

[@WOWClassicNick]

Thank you for this video.

[@acedogg692005]

So when is this suppose to happen? I'm looking forward to transmog and dungeon finder for sure!

[@bhot9293]

Kind feel like content creators will always push for the next Classic iteration because it benefits them to do so..

[@soulslayer0824]

I love cata I hope they just keep classic going all the way behind retail

[@sdwone]

Yeah but, at some point, Classic will simply become Retail all over again though... Right!? So that doesn't really add up! Classic was conceived because lots of WOW players hated Retail... So having Retail and... Errr.. Classic becoming Retail, is just bonkers! They will simply end up with two essentially identical games. Until they decide to fleece us all over again with Classic+ or Vanilla All Over Again or some other insanity! Ad Infinitum!

[@MrBones19881]

Any chance we can get a video on how the Wrath fresh servers are doing? Just curious if it will be worth going to a fresh Cata server or not.

[@donaldstample8938]

Cata is when raiding actually got fun, all the raids that came before except ICC had like 2 mechanic bosses or less

[@jaygee6629]

Agreed, I'm looking forward to Cata and Mop again...more unpopular opinion, WoD was great as a raider as well. I can understand the drought outside of raid though...I only played the garrison game so the open world issues didn't affect me personally.

[@Tijuanabill]

WoD was the last retail xpac you could raid log in, which is what most Classic players do, because we are all old and have jobs, wives, and kids.

[@JoshLineberry]

Dude I didn't raid at all in wod. I only played twinks and did pvp and made tons of gold in my garrison and I loved it lol.

[@gollese]

Throne of thunder, loved that raid! And the raids in Draenor were so fun.

[@turdeemi]

I always said during WoD that I actually like it. It was an unpopular opinion.

[@Zanaze_banane]

Great to see a positive vid of Cata. I played from Classic to Legion and Cata/Mists were my favorite expacs. Cata just cleaned up the game so much. I'm really thinking of playing Cata if it comes.

[@Scottejaye]

Cata and MOP are the big two im really looking forward to aswell. Don't get me wrong i am really enjoying wotlk but with the lack of RDF to this point its definitely hindered its potential in my eyes

[@Zanaze_banane]

@@Scottejaye It's mad that there's no RDF. Hopefully there will be no LFR coming. It would be nice if they remade Dragon Soul too!

[@Jake2503]

my first nef kill back in the day was hard af, healing as hpal, I was assigned to the ony tank, and the second healer was a disc priest. The disc priests heals sucked and the ony tank got clapped. It was the most fulfilled I've felt killing a boss in wow.

[@derrekirwin9148]

What are the go-to professions for Cata? We basically have engineering on all characters in WotLK. Is that going to be the same in Cata? Or do we need to prep new power-leveling profession kits?

[@Evan-mt7bc]

I believe Tailoring and Leatherworking were the kings of Cata because a lot of the enchants, particularly for Agility got really shafted, I don't actually remember Agility getting a new Bracer enchant in Cata and they continued to use their Wrath ones. Engineering took a pretty big combat hit but the utility of the profession still remained unparalleled. If you are looking to push your character you're likely going to be looking at Tailoring, Leatherworking, Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting and Engineering. The gathering professions got some combat buffs for example Herbalism got a small haste buff tied to their heal but emphasis on the word "small" but they remain solidly still the 3 worst professions combat wise.

[@adamg59]

For me? Cata is better than wotlk

[@JoshLineberry]

Way better than wrath!

[@trillu7163]

For me Cata is where I fell off, but for that very reason this time I might give it a go and see what I missed out on.

[@Netskyjke]

Cata is great, if you set aside your biases, I'm sure you'll love it

[@Tijuanabill]

Yeah, I left after FL for swtor, which had to have been worse than DS and early MoP was.

[@shinon748]

Cata was great the last raid tier just stuck around way too long that it soured the general opinion.

[@Tijuanabill]

@@shinon748 The final raid tier lasting too long meme hasn't really been a thing in Classic, luckily.

[@shinon748]

@@Tijuanabill thank God. A 3-4 month long DragonSoul this time around will be fine. It was a year of that raid back in 2012.

[@danielphillips7649]

You got me hyped for cata now bro. What pserver are u on?

[@Tyrone864]

I remember when I played cata at the start. It was actually ok. There wasn't anything really wrong with it tbh. However, I quit sometime around 4.1/4.2. My reason for that was because heroic dungeons were extremely tedious and annoying, but also because of how a lot players were extremely elitist and assholes by requiring achievements to do raids when not many people have done them yet and asking for a ilvl that was the same as the gear that would drop or higher. There wasn't anything else I could really do so I quit it. People may sometimes think its the content or the changes to the game that make people quit, but sometimes its infact how the playerbase treats other players that will make them quit

[@bartara_]

I'm playing since og tbc and, for me, cata was a blast! Especially phase 1, where raids and dungeons were hard. I am really hyped for cata and all related videos & info! i hope Blizz will annouce cataclysm and I will be able to play this awesome expansion again ❤

[@JoshLineberry]

Yes! I've played since the original vanilla and I absolutely loved cata. It's just amazing all around to me. I can't wait to play it again.

[@temjiu9915]

I personally enjoyed Cat allot. What killed it for me was eventual burnout at the end of Cat, plus the transition to the new dumber talents in prep for Pandaland. I remember logging into my warrior, saw the new trees, and satt there for like 15m wandering back and forth in the same spot in SW until I realized I just didn't want to bother with the new talents, and logged out, and that was it. Cat had a huge amount of QoL and mechanical changes that were really good. Plus Tmogs! It's honestly the one thing I wish they would have broken the "classic" rules for and had in earlier expansions. But at least it's finally here. And the changes to talent trees (not the end, but actual Cat talents) were pretty nice as well. I get really tired of playing every class with 2 buttons until you reach lvl 60 in wrath. having some fun skills at the start of playing makes leveling actually fun. Cat is definitely worth playing, especially if you like raiding.

[@brandonkruse6412]

What a lot of people don’t understand is that the MoP talent system was far more engaging and interesting than prior iterations. What was “lost” was merely just integrated in your spell book and instead of playing the same cookie-cutter talent build as everyone else, you could respec individual talent tiers in MoP on the fly depending on what you content you were doing. Need more AoE? Change the AoE talent tier. Need AoE CC? Change your CC talent tier, etc.

[@danielolsson7621]

Great video :) thx to u im hyped for cata :)

[@ThunderCore]

Im wondering witch class should i start to play, anyone can tell me if Druid i good for all expansions? im looking for class thats good for pve/pvp for every Xpac after wotlk. Could it be Druid or Warrior or DK or Shammy? i dont like to play with alts when game isnt all account wide thing. so i want to stick one class forevery.

[@mac76239]

That sounds boring af

[@ThunderCore]

@@mac76239 did not ask if its boring to you. Its not for me, i want to stick to one character until this game is not account wide and do all the possibile things. I asked for advise, didnt ask if its boring

[@noahx.classic]

Cata was honestly a lot better than the expected result. People just didn't want to see the world that they played for the last decade get wasted, or talents change. It was understandable. But the zones and the content they put out was unique, fresh, and enjoyable.

[@Merknilash]

This isn't really it at all What happened with Cata was 1.) Tons of resources were dumped into the world revamp which , while cool, didn't really feel like expansion content and was given for free 2.) heroics were super hard again and people raged about it. The Grim Batol 5 man was really tough. 3.) the raids were hard 4.) dragonsoul was hot garbage 5.) abyssal maw was cancelled and it took them like 7 months after xpac to release Firelands at which point tons of ppl just quit

[@stonaraptor8196]

Well, why are we doing this? In 2019 we wanted Classic, now we are almost at Cata. Classic Dragonflight? Classic-Classic WoW? Classic WoW isn't Cata right? So what is this? I genuinly do not see what Blizzard is planning to do here. An endless loop of fresh Vanilla through retail re-releases?

[@everythinggamingnow]

iv always wondered why people disliked cata and mop. Since i remember having a blast. Loving the new zones, after leveling countless times in an old, clunky world that i was very much done with. I loved the raids, and enjoyed pvp properly for the first time. Loved the cata talents (not to keen on mop talents at all though), loved all the quality of life things. Many things that almost everyone used addons for, addedn into the game as standard. They're very fun expansions. I'm starting to realise there are 2 main reasons. People love speedrunning the exact quest route theyve done for years, so cata changes all that. And, probably the most important point. The final raid lasted waaaaay too long, and wasnt really that fun. I only did dragon soul back in the day once or twice, same with Siege of Org, but i never quite realised just how long those raids where being run. I imagine that left a sour taste for a lot of people. But to be fair, the cata raids up to dragon soul are great!! Going back into blackrock is great, bastion is great, vortex one is strange, but cool. Firelands is fucking great! clearing out packs of stinky fire worshippers until the huntsman comes out. A chance at a new, more glowly hand of rag? hell yeah. I'm really excited for cata personally. PS, to iterate on my "clunky" comments about the old world, since a lot of people hold that world dearly. I just mean, the idea of running into a new town, excited to see what quests there are.....only to find 1 quest, telling you "Hey dude, go and deliver this fish to my friend on another continent, and ill give you 30xp and less silver than i'd give to a beggar" oh thanks pal, that was a fun 45 mins of running. If you havent properly leveled in cata, just please have atleast 1 runthrough of reading the quests and hearing the stories because most of them are great. A lot of corny stories, but a lot of good stuff.

[@mrv6159]

Dungeon finder? As in WoTLK classic right now? Or like in retail?

[@endcorewow4267]

Hey scotte very nice video! Would be cool if you can make a video for professions to answer questions like: Are professions important in cataclysm? Can you make decent gold with professions? What are the best professions in terms of PVE/PVP/Gold? Are secondary professsions like fishing important/worth?

[@albeshino8875]

Can’t wait for class specific videos of cata

[@mestupkid211986]

The only bad part about Dragon Soul was the fact it went on for a almost 2 years. Spine was trash, but... I can think of a few trash bosses elsewhere

[@michaelmoran6364]

Spine and Madness... Honestly the raid makes my pick for the worst final raid ever.

[@Tijuanabill]

It was 14 months, not two years lol.....

[@mestupkid211986]

@@Tijuanabill Okay. And that's the take away here?

[@Tijuanabill]

@@mestupkid211986 Which word did you not understand?

[@mestupkid211986]

@@Tijuanabill Oh. I understood it, just confused by the amount of toxicity.

[@wizegamer]

Hey dude hope going well :) Cata was ok to me , I felt many classes the shaft, and the raids was not my favorite.. but it did introduce some cool Implements. actually more additions then most classic games to date

[@rossdonnelly7397]

Great Video, My peak raiding days were during cata, dungeons and raids at the start even on normal mode felt like a huge challenge, normal mode raids were harder than wotlk ICC Heroic ( with buff) , Firelands was a lot of fun and felt challenging also even on normal before you were geared

[@SteveProNerd]

Tbh this kinda hypes it all up for me. Reminded me of why I SHOULD look forward to Cata Classic

[@abrahamovicovski]

Cata gets a lot of hate but for me it's the pinnacle of fire mage and feral druid PvP. Two things I like the most in WoW.

[@Saekes]

Feral dots were so fun in cata!

[@user-qx4cx7pm8d]

I can't wait to level through cata watching your vids

[@Immashift]

I started in Cata, all of my Cata knowledge is still there. The leveling route that was the most efficient, the way to play my favorite classes (looking at you, unhittable prot paladin). The stats made sense, gear still dictated health and mana, decent play was required not to wipe in small group content... The best part for me though is the leveling dungeons. Low level group content in Cata is so... dialed in. Where in Retail at the moment you're level 15 spamming flash heal because that's the only thing that heals for a decent amount, in Cata, every spell was useful at every level. Tanks didn't get obliterated at low levels the moment you stopped spamming heals, there was more room to game the dungeon mechanics. It was a time when I really enjoyed low level tanking too - people didn't zerg as hard through dungs, tanks actually mattered, mana still mattered. Reforging was something that made a lot of interesting builds work. I also missed most of that raiding expansion because I was learning the game, leveling toons, etc. Excited to go into it day 1 with all that knowledge already there. With LFG tool properly coming to Wrath before Cata, one of my favorite parts of dungeons will finally be there - I loved hitting the queue as tank or healer and just... seeing what you got in terms of people . Sometimes it was a fast simple group, other times you had to.... well carry the run. Cata made that fun. It was before the ability pruning, so DPS specs could still off tank if the tank died, or heal, whatever. I mained a prot paladin in Cata and I'm curious to see just how crazy they will be. I met one of my best WoW friends chain pulling Scarlet Monastery in an LFG pug, seeing if I could keep us in combat the entire instance with nobody dying. I'm excited for all that to be current again.

[@nathanberrigan9839]

I'm not normally one for fresh server hype, but Cata Classic is one release that absolutely needs to have them. Having all players on a server go through the new level up experience together would create a unique culture for that server.

[@MrDrunkeNN]

Atleast a Gold Reset is a Must have

[@nathanberrigan9839]

@@MrDrunkeNN There's no way that will happen. It would cause a lot of people to quit.

[@MrDrunkeNN]

@@nathanberrigan9839 people always bargain to Quiz the Game for certain Changes, but they dont because the Most of us addicted .

[@MrDrunkeNN]

@@nathanberrigan9839 and i think the Beat Solution is to Reduce every gold stash by 90% so you still habe some Gold left, but the Ingame Inflation of the Gold is gettin a massive cut

[@The77Voice]

A lot of people love the leveling speed and streamlining Cata introduced. I hated it. It never felt like a lived in world again. Questlines rushed me through zones too fast to care about the people or story. Dungeons had no story anymore. If you try to take time to read you get kicked because the only reason to run dungeons is speed leveling. I never ran into other players in the wild anymore since RDF was a thing. If I did find someone i wouldn't interact with them because...well there's not really any group content anymore. All made for solo play. If you like speed runs and raiding Cata can be great if you like story and immersion or experience...it ain't there anymore.

[@TheBugB]

You got me hyped bro

[@yonkonomi5706]

All of the raiding up to Dragon soul was amazing. Sadly having Dragon soul for so long just ruined it for a lot of people. Especially since a majority of the bosses were just reskins

[@OTPulse]

But Naxx & Ony are OK, because Wrath?

[@gregbrown3764]

@@OTPulse Where did you see them say that?

[@OTPulse]

@@gregbrown3764 oh, the endless "Wrath is best expansion ever!!" Remarks.

[@nopnop9077]

@@OTPulse don't forget TOC as well. triple the shit raids but zero of the complains.

[@gregbrown3764]

@@OTPulse Which has nothing to do with what the OP did or didn't post. I agree with what you're saying, just not sure why you went about it this way...

[@el3ees]

I believe my characters lvl cap will be forever 80!

[@ravouswintersong6205]

When did glyph of demon hunting get introduced? I wont come back until I can be melee hybrid warlock tank with imps again

[@KilianHD]

how did u get video footage for this

[@Mark-ho6tn]

Classic wow is Vanilla, TBC and Wrath. Cata was the big start to what modern wow turned into. Btw Scottejaye kicks ass!

[@neugassh3570]

Now that we experienced wotlk i would say its only vanilla and tbc.

[@Niterayde]

@@neugassh3570 cause blizzard fucked it in wrath classic

[@PretentiousD]

​@@neugassh3570literally only classic to me. Tbc is so far from vanilla its just part of the transition to me. Early transition and wotlk is the latter transition

[@sinnis4993]

@@PretentiousD after playing classic and tbcc it's definitely classic > tbcc > wotlk (retail andy here btw). i love progression raiding and high m+ keys but sometimes i just need a few days to chill. and thats classic for me, even hc classic. for me its a nice balance.

[@DC-op7wu]

For starters. most people just love to hate just for the sake of hating. Cata, gameplay and class design are one of the best if not the best version of the old style talent trees.

[@JoshLineberry]

Yep!

[@IgnacioBuela]

Your videos are extremly cool. TY

[@stefanmds4684]

Ok the fact that the sub button actually lit up with a rainbow around it when you said subscribe at 10:37 made subscribe haha I am so simple.

[@marcusmolyneux6422]

i have a strong feeling that CATA classic will be way more popular than wrath is this time around. Wont be suprised if we see an average higher population on Cata servers than lich king servers. So many reasons that Im making this statement is just right now soooo many people want RDF and they are simply not giving it to us when they see servers are dying, than bring all the other aspects that Cata has. Cata classic is a win win.

[@johnlouis2598]

I enjoyed Cata way more than Wrath. Levelling in Cata, the dungeons, and the raids are all unironically amazing. Cata gets a bad rap because it follows Wrath, changes the old world, and Dragon Soul the last raid was a bit of a let down. The actual expansion and all of its content is great.

[@jamessikaris9288]

We appreciate you mate. Well done! What an engaging video. Looking forward to cata that’s for sure.

[@acepalomino4718]

So since they got rid of group finder in wrath, then no raid finder in cata??

[@chrisbreen6484]

Cata is way better than anything that came before. Unless you enjoy tediousness because it makes you feel like a god tier gamer then its improvements all round.

[@nickelodeann]

There's a reason the population of private servers drops off a cliff past wrath servers. The closer the expansions approach retail style wow, the less sense a "classic" reboot experience makes. It's starting to feel silly and lazy. Maybe if you never experienced cata and want to see what you missed, sure - but I that seems pretty niche. Personally, I'm massively against LFR and transmog, but I'm more against the philosophy of going through all the wow expansions again because the company can't create quality new content. I really, really want a classic+, whether that's based on vanilla/tbc/wrath, I don't care. I just want new content and new stories based on the OG flavor. But my hopes are incredibly low, and these types of videos lower my hopes even further.

[@Neotidus]

I have no faith in Blizzard with Classic+. They ruined wrath for me with all the changes.

[@nickelodeann]

@@Neotidus I agree. The more likely world is where they just rerelease expacs and plays it safe with retail, which is sad.

[@ihalia]

@@Neotidus Which changes completely "ruined" wrath for you? Because for me, the community ruined wrath, not blizzard. Yeh, i would of loved OG dungeon finder to make alt lvling a little less boring but it's still doable. That's literally the only complain I have for blizz. I firmly believe that 99% of problems in classic are community born.

[@huppupappa1637]

Classic + vote here. Cata is not classic. Same old world in retail. I would play dragonflight instead.

[@Fabriciod_Crv]

other than not trusting blizzard to do a good job, only a very niche amount of people would actually stick around for a MMO like old WoW. also more like quality content that YOU want, Dragonflight has been knocking out of the park since launch.

[@Auroche]

Everytime I hear someone hating on Cata they bring up "Raid Finder" and "World changes" forgetting that Raid Finder didn't come out till last patch, and we LITERALLY asked for the world changes. Cataclysm had amazing dungeons, raids, and pvp. It gave us constant content from patch to patch and ended up being a super solid expansion. I'm excited for it.

[@YourPalKindred]

I hope they release future expansions as a sort of Classic+. I enjoy the slower levelling and difficulty of Classic, I enjoy having to pay for skills, earning a mount, and the much healthier economy. If I could get that *and* play a worgen, I'd never leave my PC.

[@carlosnavarrete1094]

Pretty sure the reason why people rate cata as one of the worst if not the worst expansion in the game was the addition of features that worsened the experience for the three major camps of players. LFR worsened the experience for raiders in general by dilluting the reward of experiencing/exploring a new wing or room of a raid by creating the possibility of seeing it without conquering the challenge with your group of friends. Transmogs worsened the experience of prestige seekers by allowing every player to look cool without the prestige associated with it since they could simply solo old raids to get that feeling. Hard heroics worsened the experience of casual players by making the barrier to raiding regular raids too difficult with the very hard cata heroics. I think all in all, this is the first expansion where all major (except for maybe PvP since I've never done much of it so I can't even try to uinderstand how their experience changed) avenues of WoW gameplay were significantly worsened by changes to the game. It went from a focused expansion experience: Vanilla - Casuals that wanted a less intense experience than other older games such as EverQuest. TBC - Hardcore raiders and Prestige seekers got their opportunity to shine with harder raids, prestigious titles and gear (Twin blades, titles) Wrath - The beginning was marked by casual friendly levelling and entry level raids with some prestigious and difficult fights (3D Sarth comes to mind) with titles and mounts associated with it. Then Ulduar was a very prestigious/difficult raid that served both prestige seekers and challenge seekers to get what they needed from Hard modes, and casuals to experience what they wanted from normal modes. The end was where things started maybe going downhill with 4 difficulties and then LFG which is debatable. then Cata. Too many conflicting change that affected everyone and not just their intended audience