Not sure why people still buy the domino

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[@alexviau6950]

I've never used a domino. I don't think I've ever even seen one irl. But the appeal to me as a hobbyist has never been time savings but rather the accuracy and certainty that the joints will be near perfect without having to manually adjust each joint individually.

[@herbertrusselbaum938]

Yes, that's why i bought one. As a hobbyist, my time is scarce and i want to build nice things, not taking forever to dial in a Joint.

[@harlanbarnhart4656]

I have one and use it several times a week and you are not wrong. But I also still use old fashioned mortise and tenon which I favor for exterior doors. On interior work often comes down to how many joints need to be cut, six doors or less and I use the domino but more than that it's faster to set up machinery like a shaper or mortiser.

[@shinrah4772]

It also requires sigificantly less skill to get good results. All I did when I bought mine was study the extended manual and watch a tutorial or two, once you know the functions and how to set it up, it's super quick and kinda foolproof. And if you do screw up and put a mortise in the wrong place you just glue in a domino and cut it off flush. It's come in very handy in a ton of projects and since it's fast and easy you can also use it on things you might otherwise just screw or nail together cause they're "not worth" the extra time. That said, for the money you can def. get a bunch of other tools, so nobody should consider buying this over things like a normal router, routertable, mitersaw etc. Can't say i regretted buying mine tho, whenever I needed it, it did it's job and it's extremely accurate, I never had to adjust anything on mine, it was perfect straight from the factory so that was a nice bonus.

[@ryanpavs7119]

As a stay at home dad, my "shop time" is pretty limited. Tools that maximize my time are sometimes worth the premium. The domino was worth it to me.

[@stevegagnon9451]

I use dominoes all the time , I just a a router to make the groove/ Chanel

[@MrRobertBatchelor]

I bought the domino in June and the festool hoover. 2500€ and I’ve done two projects with it. Which I wouldn’t have even attempted without the domino. It is opening up my creativity. I’m a professional property renovator in France.

[@farmcat3198]

When you have one, you attempt projects which are more difficult.

[@MrRobertBatchelor]

@@farmcat3198 I was constipated the other day and it did the trick perfectly.

[@tannerbriggs9127]

As a professional carpenter during the day; There is nothing that beats the speed and durability of a domino in on-site carpentry. Me and my employees will continue to use them. For alignment of panel etc. they are great.

[@RafMaxwell]

The only way this would be a question is if you were unfamiliar with both methods and how they can be applied in both the shop and jobsites. Trying to use a router applied mortise and tenon in replacement for where I would choose to use a domino would be ridiculously slow to get the same result. Dust collection on domino is top notch too.

[@richardlyle9676]

I love how nerdy you get with the numbers and now i can use your calculator to convince my wife.

[@Six_Gorillion]

Yea just tell her it saves you 50 minutes which is 50 minutes you could spend with her, and ask her how much your time together is worth to her.

[@richardlyle9676]

@@Six_Gorillion that is brilliant

[@arnoldtarbooz1420]

You either should have learned mathematics in school or have married a smarter woman.

[@sketch2002]

@@Six_Gorillion Depending on the wife, that might have the opposite effect. "Is there a way to make it take 50 minutes longer?" :)

[@patbird9694]

Feel sorry for men who are scared of their wives. I just what I want without guilt. If you make the money thats your prerogative.

[@TaylerMade]

interesting video. i am now retired, but remember when the domino first became available. i was a one man shop who made individual pieces on commission, so my throughput compared to most commercial shops was small. i looked at the cost of the machine and its consumables, decided that unless doing large batches it was uneconomic. to be honest, when i trained most professional shops used dowels. with a horizontal drill and bench drill it was a quick and easy method to get a joint that done well, stood the test of time. my last point is this, i see more money spent on tools in amateur shops than i had in my shop. people its not about the gear you have, its about how you use what you have to be able to enjoy your time in the shed. its a hobby and it doesn't matter how long it takes you.

[@SiqueScarface]

I see things differently, especially because it is a hobby. It does not have to conform to any Return on Investment criteria. If you like to have fancy tools, and you are able to afford them, why not? Sometimes, the joy lies in the handling of a tool. You design your workpieces simply to use the tool you like. Doing things because you can. You are not a pro. You aren't judged by anyone but yourself. And if you use the Domino router only once, and never finish the project, but you like to know that you have this tool in your shop, and from time to time, you take it out and just weigh it in your hands - more power to you! It's your shop, and it's your hobby.

[@EvAurich]

I have an hour and a half after a full work day and putting my kid to bed. Being so short on time is my motivation to invest in tools that help me renovate my house and build furniture. The Domino is one of the best investments I made first this.

[@Timber2Toothpicks]

You my friend are SPOT ON. I ran a true woodworking shop with a crew of 6 for 25 years. Plus they all made good money. We cranked out some totally bitchen work. No, we were NOT working in a garage. The building was a working woodshop with a 6 week delivery window EXCEPT for large contract work. Why everyone thinks they need RED TOOLS and a Domino machine is just NUTS! I dont care how good you think you are. But, hey it’s your garage and your tools. No! I did not drink the Festool Koolaid. Keep the party going!

[@adrian-mu3jr]

Dowelling is cheap , easy and fast. You can get a wide variety of diameter and any length you like. Standard super accurate jigs can make 6mm to 10mm dowel joints. Then you can use as many dowels as you want in a joint.

[@ThaJay]

I 100% agree and while I really like this video because too many woodworking channels just blindly domino anything, if you make or buy a drill guide once, you can dowel your joints in the same time it takes to domino or maybe even faster. Usually strength is a non issue so in all those cases you can dowel in seconds and then when you do need it to be maximally solid you can mortise and tenon.

[@pkosmasjr]

What's a super accurate dowel jig to buy as a recommendation? I need to breadboard a piece of maple 2.5" square to end grain heart yellow pine for a countertop (made from bowling alley lane) not sure what kind of jig (was considering a solid metal one from harbor freight) or appropriate size dowel. Thanks for any advice!

[@Tobsen660]

​@@pkosmasjr I opened the answers to this post to agree with him and then you asked about the one application where a dowel will not do the trick. For breadboardends you need to give the outer tennons (Dominos) some room for expansion of the crossgrain This is impractical to do accurate with dowels. I would do mortise and tennon.

[@1steelcobra]

Despite them falling out of style, biscuits are also still a good choice for a lot of stuff where the goal is alignment more than strength, like making panels. You just need to remember they need more time for the glue to dry to prevent impressions of them from showing through. And you can buy a router bit to cut them instead of buying the specialized unit if you want.

[@FixthisCD]

@@pkosmasjr Mafell is considered the best but it is $1200, or a cheap Amazon for $150. to buying a jig for $70

[@mjf1036]

We have heard from so many KZbinrs that "the Domino is really used to help with Alignment during the glue up". Absolutely it looks like it does help. For me, based upon this time study, I need to practice cutting my M&T joinery! 😅❤

[@snteevveetns]

How many m&t joints in history (by skilled craftsmen) are still holding together… I’ll stay old school

[@OperationDarkside]

"Tools you already have around the shop" You, Sir, underestimate how much of a cheapskate I am and how I'm willing to suffer with hand tools for it.

[@mrscience1409]

You must be speaking of "powered" hand tools. My hand tools, as in planes and chisels, cost way over $2000.

[@OperationDarkside]

@@mrscience1409 Then you must have bought proper ones. I mostly bought the cheapest I could get. Jap. Handsaw: 25€ Handplane: 30€ (That one sucks, so I made my own with its blade) Chisel set: 35€ Various measuring and marking devices: ~40€

[@andrewbrown8148]

Good video, Scott. As a hobbyist woodworker, I never expected that I would ever buy a Festool Domino...until I did. While I love making joinery using traditional methods, the Domino is just fun to use. I find myself employing it in different ways and replacing other methods of doing things. I used to use my biscuit joiner to make slots for Z-clips (or similar hardware) to hold down tops to rails, but now I use the Domino. I have also used the Domino to make double & triple-wide slots resembling wider mortises for specific applications and it works like a dream. Several other uses, but I've already over-typed and you're now snoring. Always looking forward to your next...

[@Paulo-Bunzo]

One thing that might be useful for the calculator is building in a (potentially optional?) salvage/resale value for the Domino. If it holds its value from new to used, then the high cost can be somewhat justified as "I'm really just renting this over a long period of time". But great job on this video!

[@1pcfred]

The patent is set to expire in the next couple of years on the domino machine and when it does other companies will be producing their copies of a domino for a fraction of what Festool is charging. So I'm not sure you can count on that high resale value forever. The budget conscious who might buy used will have other options then.

[@Paulo-Bunzo]

@@1pcfred that is an excellent point.

[@1pcfred]

@@Paulo-Bunzo I expect to see some variety when the market opens up. We're real close to that time now too. There are actually several patents involved with the domino and they weren't all filed at the same time. So they expire in stages. I think one already has? I've read a bit about it but don't recall all the details precisely. I'm sure a web search can find a volume of info on the topic. It is an interesting one. Remember what happened with the multitool. It'll happen with the domino.

[@JackMorty-w6i]

@@1pcfred A Rolls Royce will still have higher re-sell value than a VW...

[@1pcfred]

@@JackMorty-w6i a 1965 Type II 21-Window Deluxe Bus Volkswagen sold at auction for $302,500 I bet there's lots of Rolls Royces that are not worth that. Real money likes Bentleys better.

[@phpn99]

It's not just cots ; it's also User Experience. Not as in how much experience does the user have, but in how pleasant the experience is. This is a huge factor in people's acquisition decisions. If on top of it, the expense enhances the repeatability and the accuracy of the work, with minimal effort, you have a significant value proposition. Last on the list is the aspirational, brand-related factor : "I use a Festool Domino" has a similar appeal to "my daily driver is an Audi", even if you get nearly as good a car in a Honda, for much less moolah. And these factors may be even more true to hobbyists. Professionals make existential decisions all the time ; hobbyists can afford to make irrational, emotion-driven decisions, and that's something we need to understand and not criticise, even if the gadget purchased, could end up living mostly in its original box.

[@risunokairu]

Like a finger cot? For crying Bering bandages?

[@alexanderdgray]

I just posted the same thing, but you did it before me. Somehow, I am still better than you. I need time to figure out how to prove that. /s

[@Caffeine.And.Carvings]

This exaclty. I am a professional furbiture maker (employed) and our shop has all the tools, so i never feel the need to use them privatley at home. Still, i slowly aquire all the tools for myself. Even if i use them maybe 3x a year, every use gives me so much joy, that the cost is worth it to me.

[@Somun-a]

You lost me at Audi :)

[@christiannorf1680]

Meanwhile the people driving Mazdas are under the impression that only douchebags drive Audis, BMWs and Mercedeses. Not to mention the porshs

[@jasonsiebold]

Time is the most valuable thing we have. Once it's spent you never get it back. And you can't earn more.

[@frankshannon3235]

I bought my Domino in 2008. Mine was the first one my dealer had sold. It was my 50th birthday and it was my present to myself. I've used it for 16 years now and I look forward to using it for another 16 years God willing. I don't remember exactly what I paid for it. There was a special discount if you bought the kit. I was building my kitchen and the unusual door profile precluded cope and stick. That was my immediate rationale.

[@Ceen328]

For me it is quite easy. The Domino is so idiot proof, that it makes me a better woodworker. It delivers the same result, every time. I even got a really good router jig for the mortise and good bits. But in the end, the Domino wins hands down. Every time. I'm glad you mentioned the dust in this case. I also use the Domino every time it makes even a little sense. Any glue up with enough meat on the wood (I rarely use less than 16mm wood), gets a small domino. No movement during clamping is another huge benefit for me. I even use it when gluing two sheets together, just so nothing moves. Well and also because I want to use it lol.

[@valarmorghulis5265]

I absolutely does not make you a better woodworker. Grab a chisel and saw, son.

[@meilyn22]

​@@valarmorghulis5265You are ignorant. People value their time.

[@Ceen328]

@@valarmorghulis5265 This comment makes no sense and is a prime example, of hand tool woodworking snobs.

[@Ceen328]

Btw a Domino is IMHO on the same level a a Sous Vide stick. Every time the same great result. Makes me look like a better cook than I am. Much better tbh.

[@G.I.JeffsWorkbench]

Thx Scott for this ver😊y practical & (mostly) scientific analysis. Well worth considering before you lay out a grand or almost two on one tool. A Domino for a production shop is a no brainer (time is money). For a garage / hobbyist woodworker, money is often money, and time is time. Furthermore, time in the shop is bliss. Bliss is simultaneously free & priceless.

[@harlanbarnhart4656]

You are not limited in tenon width with the domino once you start making your own tenon stock. I rarely use a standard width, I keep mine switched over to the expanded wide setting and sometimes use double plunges to get the appropriate width. When I need tenon stock, I run a large batch and keep it on hand. For a common size like 10mm I will typically have four widths on hand, regular, 1st expansion, 2nd expansion and double plunge.

[@christiannorf1680]

May be a dumb question, but can't you just stick several dominos side by side in the long tenon? Can't really imagine it would be significantly weaker than a continuous one. At least in the sense of realistic stresses on the joint (where in most cases a single screw is enough to take the force)

[@melmartinez7002]

I mean, there are various round-dowel jigs that are very fast and accurate that would serve for this. MUCH cheaper than a Domino and MUCH MUCH easier than doing a full classic mortis & tenon with a router. The nicest advantage of the Domino that you can't easily replace, though, is the dust collection. Not that important to a DIY hobbyist, but to a full-timer, that can be pretty important..

[@markusesslinger]

If it is a hobby, time is not what matters - it is fun. So if you consider joinery to be a boring labour, go and buy whatever helper you can afford. However, if you do woodworking for recreation, even a electric router might be a bad choice: Stick with old handtools which are neither fast nor easy, but are much more rewarding - and in the long run, you probably even save time when you master handsaw and chisel.

[@befmx31]

As I am sitting here watching this video, I just have to say, the video quality is superb!

[@larryschweitzer4904]

I ran a commercial woodworking business most of my life. We did have a Domino machine along with multiple other methods of joinery. For all panel joinery dowels were used because it was strong and fast. (CNC!) Dowels were sometimes used for solid wood construction but took longer in assembly than Hoffman dovetail keys which were fast to machine and didn't require any clamping. Lamello biscuits were used for odd & end panel work that didn't justify some other means. The Domino machine was the least used method even though we had one for years. The issues were: it took longer to make the two slots, spread the glue on both surfaces, install the loose tenon, align the parts and clamp then unclamp. Too many operations. It was a good joint and OK if time didn't translate in to $$s. As a hobbyist I would find it hard to justify where I would rather spend my limited resources on other things.

[@everettnetzband]

are you comparing a commercial shops CNC to the Domino? Of course the CNC whoops it's butt.

[@2adamast]

@@everettnetzband are you forgetting he mentions biscuits and dowels, there are Lamello(Domino) style biscuit or tenon machines at 20% of the Domino price.

[@travisriddle8747]

@@2adamastI have priced the lamello biscuit joiner and they are $1800 or more with the biscuit hardware being more expensive than dominos. Seems to be a great system but doesn’t seem to be cheaper. What lamello joiners are you seeing for $250?

[@2adamast]

@@travisriddle8747$250 that's the price for a Makita or Dewalt corded or without its batteries

[@travisriddle8747]

@@2adamast ah, well in that case I have the harbor freight corded, I think it was $50 and it works well, would be fine for a hobbyist. I just looked it up and you can indeed use the lamello biscuit with any joiner, it just requires a drill hole for the hex key. Not the same as a domino but a decent option if you just need alignment and/or want a mostly hidden fastener that is removable and doesn't require clamps.

[@BelleDesignCo.]

love my domino, absolutely worth it for years and years to come

[@eegaugh]

Somewhat hypnotised by the two parallel grooves in your MFT-style bench! (foreground of screen)

[@keatonbeyerwoodworking]

Great test and explanation of what you did here Scott. I always heard people say get the domino to speed things up but when you showed the numbers it didn't seem that much faster and you're right, 50 minutes extra on a project sure isn't much, add in the fact that the joinery is one of my favorite parts and it really doesn't seem worth the investment

[@XxKevin79xX]

I purchased the domino when I built a crib for when my granddaughter was born. I decided to get it because of the time savings and ease of having to make over 100 mortise and tenons.

[@s70cas7ic0]

You could set the vacuum hose in a manner that it hangs from the ceiling, that way you wouldn't have it put weight on the router. Also, you could make floating tenons of various width (you can easily put grooves on them at the router table) and use them with the router. In my view, a lamello zeta p2 I much more interesting and opens up way more possibilities

[@fiveduckstudio]

This is an awesome video! I'm a big fan of power tools, saving time, and trying to avoid mistakes. My wife, on the other hand, is not a big fan of me not spending money on tools, so I can do that math in my head. 🤣

[@morganstyer]

I came across an old video from New Yankee Workshop the other day that mentioned biscuits were made of compressed beech that would swell from the moisture of the wood glue. Based on that, I think it's fair to assume that the dominoes will also swell a bit and create a mechanical lock in addition to the glue bond.

[@Ianf1x]

I use band saw with mortiser . Can do many different types of jobs so more useful. Have you ever tried putting two biscuits on top of each other no wood in-between. Very strong joints.Thinking different can make for good wood working

[@Tim.Foster123]

The online calculator cracked me up. You're a nerd's nerd, my friend! Subscribed! (As a weekend warrior with other hobbies and interests, I'm too cheap to buy a Festool.)

[@fifi23o5]

I'm a hobbyist. I'm building a house and decided to make my own furniture. Fortunately, quite early in the project I had the oportunity to borrow a Domino and after two days of use I decided to buy my own. Yes, it wasn't cheap, but according to my calculations it already paid for itself and the project isn't nearly over, yet. It saved me tons of time and eased my workflow.. Besides, after I finish, it will still have a pretty good residual value, I can always sell it at about 2/3 of it's price any day, although I seriously doubt it will ever leave the house.

[@TerryPullen]

I make my own floating tennons from scrap plywood and I use a home-made mortising jig. I can produce a lot of joints very fast.

[@frankshannon3235]

Plywood?

[@whomadethatsaltysoup]

Already made the purchase, about a month ago. Should have sprung for it years ago. I've built plenty using pocket screws, dowels, and plain old screws, but decided recently that I should have some fun with the Domino.

[@bigredracingdog466]

My experience with using a benchtop mortiser and the table saw tenon method that Scott used was that it was 12 times longer than using my Domino. I've since sold the mortiser which freed up space in my shop. I've also stopped using pocket holes. I should sell my Kreg Foreman and free up more space.

[@CzKaa]

Don't use table saw tenon, use "domino" tenon + router mortise on both sides. Easy, simple, cheap... 😁

[@Hov_i]

I recently picked up a Domino for this reason. I don't have the space for a mortiser, can't run a dado stack on my table saw and don't want to make sketchy cuts with it, and don't like storing oversized jigs. Domino packs up in the shelf nicely and is easy enough to use once you find your rhythm.

[@ewetuber186000]

I want one because I see it as an easier path to really good woodworking results.

[@ealywill]

I have yet to see any woodworker do one of these joint tests where both ends of a board are supported, like the pressure a chair or coffee table might experience, racking or downward pressure. I would love to see how the domino stands up to simulated real world pressure instead of this upward pressure test that we’ve seen repeated a few times that may have some applications but is not the majority of uses a domino or mortise joint would experience. I also fully acknowledge that I could, if I had the time, tools, and video production know-how but all three of those are limitations for me at this time

[@squirrelzar]

I do think a more accurate comparison would be if you had a plunge routing jig for making the mortises. An edge guide is fine for one offs if time consuming. But if you plan to make a lot of mortises throughout your woodworking journey, it makes sense to invest some time in making a jig that significantly speeds up how long it takes to make your mortises. Additionally, making your own tenon stock with a router table is way faster than cutting the tenon directly into your piece.

[@MrDBT85]

One key that sold me a Domino was the used prices being so high. If you buy it and find you don;t use it enough or whatever, you can sell it a year or two later and really not lose that much money, if any at all giving inflation and tariffs etc. I did see some saying that home woodworkers don't need them because speed wasn't important which I disagree with entirely. I have a limited amount of time to get into the workshop so saving time absolutely is a selling point for me.

[@fantinwoodworking]

Even though I didn't have your calculator when I got mine, I would easily justify it doing some sort of "goal seek", where the number of projects would equal to ONE to justify it. I would then just need to convince the client my hourly rate is like a million dollars lol. Nice job again Scotty :)

[@kevinrose8568]

Good comprehensive comparison. Love the idea with the calculator.

[@EvanDunville]

Good comparison. I have a domino, I don't use it to the full extent but it's an excellent nice to have. I feel more confident in making a joint using it.

[@nathanfife2890]

The thing I like about the domino is that it's just kind of fun. I have limited time to actually spend building stuff, but I try my best to actually get out there and build things for our house. It allows me to be more creative in my design and not be so limited by my inexperience. That's not to say that I can't make a mortise and tenon, I have done that quite a few times. But it takes me far longer than I'm sure it takes you, and I always have to re-remember exactly how to do it because the frequency of that operation is low enough for me that it's not muscle memory. For me the reason I got my Domino was more because it just made woodworking more fun for me And I would say after 3 years of using it, I stand by that decision, it definitely hasn't returned its investment in terms of money, cuz I don't really make money doing my woodworking, but it has made it more fun and made me more willing to tackle projects that I wouldn't have felt like I had the time or energy to do without it. Similar to a CNC, which I don't have, I think it just allows for more creative process for people who don't do it as a full-time job. However, I'm sure if you're a contractor, it suddenly becomes incredibly useful as a tool for making money as well. Personally, that's not why I got it though

[@richpeggyfranks490]

I have a Domino 500. The 700 is way too heavy to use all day. I also have the Festool domino assortment kit in the Systainer. However, I rarely use it. Like you, I use M & T for odd/difficult joints and dowels for straight joints. Just seems easier, especially for shelf/mid-panel joints. I see some folks using their Dominos for panel alignment. I use my trusty biscuit jointer for that at 10% the cost. I bought the Domino because it was a miracle tool (as reported by hundreds of KZbin creators). It sits in my "drawer of shame" and has become a purchase I regret. I suspected the time savings was fairly insignificant in a 2 person cabinet shop. Thx for confirming.

[@dennisafowler]

Dowels are very fast, cheap, and strong

[@ScottWalshWoodworking]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/aH-yqWt8bpZ0l6M

[@aberba]

I agree. Dowel are not much different from domino using the right jig. But the Domino is more flexible for many use cases especially angle joints

[@christiannorf1680]

@@aberba Also dowels are absolutely impossible to get accurate enough without the right (i. e. expensive) jig. And then we're back at "this much $ just for making a few holes?!"

[@dontworryaboutit92]

I'm saving for a Pantorouter. Repeatable mortise and tenons quickly plus dovetail and box joints. About the same price as a domino.

[@ray1283]

While I do both traditional mortise/tenon and Dominos in solid wood, the Domino really shines when you use it for joining plywood joints. Fast, accurate, but above all easy. Worth the $$$ for me.

[@was7g]

Something that you didn't include in your calculator (and which has only been mentioned by a few commenters) is that the Domino has a pretty low barrier for entry in terms of skill required, whereas routing/chiseling mortises and cutting tenons requires at least some experience, sharp tools (sharpening being its own skill "silo" within the hobby), and good techniques- i.e. a much higher barrier to entry (in terms of skill) for the home hobbyist. That definitely has a sizable effect on the value proposition.

[@1pcfred]

Sharpening doesn't have to be a skill when you use the right technique. Which isn't what a lot of influencers recommend. If you want to just sharpen and get on with whatever else you're doing then use a bench grinder to maintain the primary bevel and use a honing jig for the secondary. You'll get a sharp edge fast. Nothing to it either.

[@TCHrulez]

You can't really beat the simplicity, speed and accuracy of domino joinery. If you plan to do more than 5-10 projects or 100+ joints, I highly recommend it.

[@NWGR]

Great video, thanks for posting. I've been using a dowelmax for the past few years and it's been great, but once I finally get my sawstop, the tool fund will be focused on a domino. Mainly for the time savings.

[@asderven]

Thank you for the video, very interesting approach. Why didn’t we go with loose tenons for the router? Just like a domino, put in a domino/loose tenon of our desired length, width and height with the router. Since we are not building the domino’s ourselves, wouldn’t include the time for a loose tenon. I noticed, if you made specific jigs for mortise and tenon on the router, you could get things done faster. Set up a template to cut the tenon using a flush trim bit, should be much much faster and easier compared to table saw. Similarly a dedicated centre finding attachment on the router will help get things be more stable and secure. Domino being bough for time I think is not the best reason. Convenience, yes, accuracy yes. Cost saving, debatable. Your calculator is amazing, might want to make the number of set up bold for domino and router. I was stuck for a minute wondering why both options are the same. I don’t know how to read sadly.

[@TheChopcat]

The domino is a fantastic bit of kit for repeatable quick joinery. As a hobbyist mine has paid for itself may times over allowing me to quickly make things that I otherwise would have shied away from. You are paying for convenience and accuracy but sure you can get similar results if you are prepared to spend the time to save the money. My time is running out so I am happy to save as much as I can.

[@KettleRiseRanch]

If you can afford a domino get it! I bought one and it’s really so much faster dead simple. I don’t use it often but when I need a joint it just makes it simple.

[@zegomabeach]

This video was excellent, I really appreciate the approach and the data.

[@limpet9]

When I made a high rise single bed for my Grandson out of pine I used large, tight, tenon and mortice joints, squeezed together with long cramps and fastened together with screws from the inside, in case I needed to disassemble it later on for a house move. I like the idea of potential disassemble and that wouldn`t work with dominos

[@bethoughtprovoking]

Scott, you’re really entertaining. Please, keep it up.

[@b3owu1f]

Total DIY and still learning.. and I just spent about 12K on tools because I justified it by doing my whole hose flooring saving about 35K from the quote we got. Granted.. it's probably a stupid excuse for spending money on a tool I may not use much, but I am in my 50s and said fork it.. these are the last tools I'll be buying.. cry once buy once. They should last until I am long done wood working and hopefully pass on to my kids/grand kids or someone that will find them useful. At any rate, I value a) time and b) quality/accuracy. The cost is crazy for sure. I decided to drop $150 on 7 router bits (from China I think) that make the rounded rough edged look of the tenons, so I can make my own.. and maybe save some money there too. I figure if I make several cabinets, some furniture (Beds mostly, a desk or two and maybe some outdoor chairs), it will have been worth the savings and quality of the joints over anything else (e.g. pocket screws or the time to make my own joints with router, etc). If I am wrong.. so be it. At the very least I'll enjoy knowing I have a quality tool and can hopefully produce better quality because of it.

[@mrscience1409]

Money, you can't take it with you.

[@stephenwatson1873]

One way to speed up the mortising cutting is to use a pillar drill then clean out with a router bit

[@chrisr8996]

4:54: just a word of advice: this width selector must *only* be turned while the machine is running (see user manual), using the knob with the machine turned off can cause a pretty gnarly repair bill 😯

[@AutotechWoodworking]

I'm building a 12½" high, six drawer pedestal for our bed using mortise and tenons. It's my second attempt making something using mortise and tenons, and although the setup is a little time consuming, in my situation I feel that it's worth it because the more I make something using mortise and tenons, the better and faster I'll get. Being on Social Security disability I could never afford a Festool domino, but I don't see a need to ever have one either.

[@sreda_w]

you could use domino to make the mortise (can be made in different widths by milling the same hole several times.), and a router/bandsaw or table saw for the tenon. Then you will get something in between your calculations in terms of time. But by and large, if you're talking about making a large number of repeatable parts with tenon/mortise joints, a pantorouter is better than all of the above.

[@guitargeek57]

another thing to take into mind, as a hobbies, will a simpler tool make the hobby easier to do. I have limited time for wood projects to sometimes convenience items like the Domino would go a long way. That said, I don't have a Domino but I would consider one

[@antoinebesqueut9585]

It would be interesting to compare with dowels, since they combine speed and low cost for a similar strength.

[@bw162]

You left out of your comparison the additional $1,200 my wife would want for her “necessities” if I bought the Domino for my stupid hobby. Happy wife, happy life.

[@1pcfred]

a leader should be both feared and loved, but if that leader cannot be both, then it is better to be feared than loved

[@rzrbrn22]

You had me when you started breaking down the efficiency math!

[@alexanderdgray]

There's a couple things missing from your calculator. 1. It's not time per use, it's enjoyment per use. A Porsche will get you from A to B just as well as a Kia Soul, but there are certain people who put a value on the Porsche that doesn't equate to $. If the Domino is more pleasing to use, it adds to the overall enjoyment of the hobby. If the set up for a M&T (or other Domino alternatives) gives the user pleasure, then that adds value. 2. Alternatives--I've spent money on Domino alternatives that if I HADN'T spent that money, I'd be halfway to a Domino. I did get one from 10 Minute workshop that is actually pretty viable. I have another from Jessem that is also pretty sweet. These are not financial decsions. I may still get a Domino someday just because. 3. For me, the ultimate poor man's Domino is the Miller Dowel. I use them kind of "wooden nails/screws" and I prefer to use contrasting wood species so the dowels are exposed and sanded down. It is a super simple way of joining two pieces of wood together that probably adds a enough added strength so that someone could stand on this box I am making even though there is no earthly reason ever to do so.

[@kirkpoore9871]

Good video, though I'm not in the Domino market. I have an autofeed mortiser (1927 Greenlee) and a tenoner (1890 Levi Houston) that have served me well for a long time on production work.

[@CarlS-bb7yu]

There's lots of flavors in this cake mix... both methods join wood , but im not sure if they are both the same... I love the look of thru mortise and tennon in fine woodworking, which i guess you could accomplish with a Domino - but having the rounded corners may not appeal. Landing a shelf midspan in a case may not be the best use of a clasic mortice and tennon joint. I believe you get into the zone of what's your preference for the project you are working on. It looked like you had a Panto router in one of your clips. I opted to buy one of the commercial versions and absolutely love its precision, speed of setup, and all the different applications it can be used in. But it is not the total solution for everything. If i was starting out again , i would look at cost, accuracy, ease of use (or whatever elase is important in making the decision - and go from there). A router and a couple of jigs can go a long way for a limited budget... Then there is always the Lamello Zeta P2 for doing more Euro style cabinets (for a good wallett hemerage..) Enjoyed your video - thanks for the thought and effort that went into it.

[@channonwade]

Panta routers are also an option for this, and I bet the time will be more comparable to the festool.

[@nasarazam]

Domino is the best thing since slice bread. It is not just the time, it is easy to use and save many frustrations

[@myinlawsitsupport972]

Forgive my ignorance as I am just starting to build things my wife is asking for so I am learning! What about the cost of the wood? A mortise and tenon would require you to use a longer piece of wood you then mill down creating a lot of waste. Seems that saving a few inches of waste on your stock would save you a lot of money in the long run?

[@farmcat3198]

See the Mafell DuoDoweler. I have both the DuoDoweler and the Domino, and prefer to use the DuoDoweler unless the piece isn't wide enough for both dowels.

[@briansangeorzan4986]

It didn't look like the hydraulic jack was placed at the same distance from the joint in all the short video clips. The torque on the joint is directly proportional to the distance from the joint.

[@ScottWalshWoodworking]

There's a line drawn on the jack and the jig. It was in the same place everytime.

[@williamholliday2468]

I haven't seen anyone on KZbin do testing on the knapp connectors - mainly the dowels and spring steel dowel-like connectors they have. They are supposed to be self tightening; I'd be interested to see if they provide enough pressure to be glued without clamping.

[@SuperMaukam]

I think that dominos are also pressed together and they swell from the water of the glue, much more than just cut wood. 10:05. Great video and good work!

[@davejameson9773]

Your video from a year ago said that the best balance was the dowel, and I think that was right. I bought the JessEm jig which is a little faster (I think) than the one in that video. I really like the idea of the domino but it is 10x the price JessEm jig and, as you said, how many projects a year do I need it on. I would love to see you do this test with the JessEm jig as a comparison.

[@spirituallyinsane]

One additional factor contributing to the failure of of your "Domino-like" loose tenons is that your loose tenons are not compressed. Manufactured assembly dowels and Dominos are sold compressed, and they swell when they are wetted with glue. This reduces the risk of a glue-starved joint. A saw-cut tenon, on the other hand, has porous raw wood faces that suck up glue and can starve the joint (though this is a known thing and can be handled in the same way as any other glued joint by priming the surface and using adequate glue). It's not a dealbreaker, just one additional difference between the manufactured Dominos and hand-cut ones.

[@SHENRAR]

I dont see myself buying a Domino, as I sincerely like making mortise and tenon joints. I recently made a fence door with 40 mortise and tenon joints and it was a really fun piece to build, and I dont think the Domino would decrease time significantly.

[@1pcfred]

If you want the traditional woodworking experience then hand chopping mortises is part of that. If your goal is to crank out work then a domino is a good fit. It's all about what you're looking for.

[@jamesccart]

you think it would be quicker to cut two mortices with the router and use a floating tenon made from off the shelf sized timber @ 1/3 the thickness of your project ? it would be pretty quick to cut them to length on the mitre saw and I think you could skip rounding the edges of the tenons over if your mortice was a touch wider than them .

[@fins9584]

Your financial calculation forgot to factor in the alimony after my wife found out I spent over a thousand dollars on a tool to do something I can already do with the router I already own. :)

[@aussie5468]

The two most indispensable tools in my workshop are the Festool Domino and a Dewalt tracksaw.

[@CarmoniusFinsnickeri]

Where the Domino really shines is sheet goods and solid wood frame builds. All "Domino killer" videos seems to forget this small detail, which in my view is huge. This is where the Domino is really good, improves quality and saves time. To take a decision if to buy a Domino or not, this should heavily be taken into account. As a Domino user since many years, I would say for me it's 80/20 usage for sheet goods and solid panel builds vs solid wood corner joints as shown in this video...and yes, I build a majority of things in solid wood. But for a dining table or chair build corner joints I would choose m&t for strength, same goes for many more joints. A similar test for a kitchen cabinet or bookshelf construction would imo be more appropriate.

[@everettnetzband]

I scoffed at the Domino for years, finally bought one. I would get in a time machine if I could, go back, and slap myself in the face for not getting it sooner. I'm biased though because I have small kids and I don't have the shop time to fart around like i used to. I'd urge someone on the fence to get it, and if you end up feeling it was a waste, you can re-sell it for not too much less than you paid. It's not lost on me though that it is a hefty purchase.

[@BenjaminMellor]

Personally, I like the Warrior Doweling Jig from Harbor Freight. From my experience, I like using it with spacers made from scrap wood. You have to tighten the jig, drill the holes, put in wood glue, put in the dowel, then use clamps. The domino is definitely faster, but that jig is definitely worth the money, being just barely over 2% the price of the domino.

[@ethanl9656]

Making integral tenons to mimic the domino sounds like extra time you would never actually waste. So in reality you would just make the wider & stronger tenon because it takes less time. You also have to account for the cost of the dominos themselves whereas an integral tenon, or even a floating tenon, is made from the stock you already have. I think you could save time making floating tenons with the router and table saw method since you can batch out the tenons without worrying about the shoulders and hogging that material off with just a single blade. It is twice as many router operations though.

[@thetechnician832]

If doing traditional mortice and tenon what type of router size would people recommend Trim Router or Larger router that can take 1/2" cutters?

[@ScottWalshWoodworking]

If you're just buying one plunge router, get one that can take 1/2" bits, like the Bosch 1617 with plunge base included. You can always add a trim router later.

[@KipringPayne]

Thanks for this. Been debating over this very thought. What is the savings in time.

[@M-J-P]

And you convinced me to buy Domino😄. For hobbyist, time saving is the best cost saving.

[@Nachoze70]

Woodworking nerd! 🙂 Enjoyed your analysis!

[@bobmartin6055]

Nicely done!

[@darrenhutchinson5435]

🇬🇧in my youth, I cut down 2 bur oaks 1 oak , burnt a clutch out ov my van , borrowed a truck, took to a local mill, £400, picked it up stored for a year, took it back, for kiln drying, £600+ , the wood I had , maybe not a lot, “ but the satisfaction “ be it in my head , so now when I see a knot it wood, it’s what makes it ⚒️⚒️

[@garymelrose9727]

Factor in the opportunity for error into each separate operation to deliver each side of the joint. Then factor in the resulting spoiled project part lumber cost and redo time. Domino makes more sense suddenly.

[@clarkreimer9448]

You might enjoy (in a future video) comparing the domino to Grizzly's dual doweler (with one spindle removed because it's likely not accurate enough with both to produce two pairs of mirroring holes). With similar setup times, probably double the operation time (because you would presumably use more dowels), and it being ~1/10th the cost, I think it'd be a good video!

[@ahikernamedgq]

I've never used it, but I think that people use it for its versatility, accuracy and integration into the Festool system.

[@chrispcall]

You lighting and camera work are always top-notch! Which camera and lens are you using for your intro shot?

[@ScottWalshWoodworking]

Thanks! The camera that I'm using for the talking head is the Sony A7CII with a Tamron 20-40mm f/2.8 lens, and my b-roll camera is a 28-70mm f/2.8 Tamron lens with the Sony ZV-E1, which incidentally I prefer more for video work over the other camera. Lighting is a bunch of neewer 480 led panels around the shop, which i spent quite a bit of time adjusting to get right.

[@wm.perrykillam4243]

I hear that the Domino patent is expiring. So, shouldn't we expect that other manufacturers will start to produce a loose tenon joiner with similar mechanisms/ properties of the Domino and have a lower price?

[@bharbir]

Great video! Out of curiosity, you made a video about a year ago which tested different joints. Wouldn’t it have been better to compare the domino to a drill and dowel joints? That would’ve been more of a fair comparison, there are tonnes of 3D print jigs for this purpose.

[@1pcfred]

You can put something together with glue and screws and then when the glue sets up take the screws out, drill out where they were and put in dowels. No jigs, no clamps, it's fast and has a craft look to it.

[@samponette3306]

Domino can be used for more then straight connections. Good luck making a mortise and tenon at a random angle between 0 and 90 degrees with your router.

[@r0bst4rl1ng]

Not specific to the Festool, but a floating tenon saves a bit of facing-wood, too, right?

[@ondskabenselv]

What about joints that isn't 90 degrees between the parts? Guessing the domino shines in that case?

[@rbrtgreenland6786]

What about the forgotten dowels

[@letsRegulateSociopaths]

All of the production woodworkers i respect (a lot) say that they actually use the domino once or twice a year.