Scraping a Lathe Compound Slide: Monarch Lathe Restoration - Part 30

[@JeffMadre]

I haven’t watched the video yet, but thanks for taking the red stripe out of your thumbnails!

[@rodhenry4862]

Awww, morning coffee with Keith, life is great! Thank you Keith !

[@OperaBass3]

Nice work with the Biax. You're demonstrating what I used to call in the scraping classes I've taught the "paint" method and the "dab" method. The paint method with the side to side motion is used for areas of indications and the dab - a touch - for individual points. I like how you emphasized the need for a space between the individual scraping strokes and how they are essential for developing the checkerboard pattern of scraping indications (blue spots). Your words were more vivid than mine when I was teaching the same points. Be warned, if I ever teach again I plan to plagiarize them. Anyone new to the Biax will discover it's an aggressive tool. It will dig you a frog pond if you allow it to dwell for even a couple of strokes. The Biax should be moving the instant it contacts the work. Another point is the scraper tip is wide. Most folks tend to cut only with center of the width. If you roll the Biax slightly, you can cut with any part of the width extending the life of the cutting edge and reducing trips to the lap or the grinder. Use windex and liquid based cleaners with care especially on slender work. Cast iron doesn't conduct heat very well. Liquids cool surfaces by evaporation. Cooled materials contract. Scrape one face of a 2" bar 2 ft long flat using a water based cleaner between passes and you may find after the bar returns to thermal equilibrium the flat face you earlier scraped to 20 points is now convex. Not a big worry for short compact work like a compound slide but a possible concern if scraping a long milling table and a major concern scraping a camelback straight edge. DAMHIKT, it's a painful story that almost got me fired. Water based cleaners have a powerful cooling effect thanks to water's high latent heat of evaporation. My solution is to use a liquid cleaner having a low latent heat of evaporation. I prefer Ronsonal lighter fluid (about 8% the cooling effect of water) in the yellow plastic squeeze bottle. While you might say "it's just naptha" and elect to substitute painter's naphtha from the home center, don't. My experience is, while painter's naphtha works equally well, for some reason it promotes rust; lighter fluid wont. There is the flammability issue with naptha; use sparingly and employ ordinary fire safety. A 12 oz container of Ronsonal lasted me several days unless the surfaces were large. Finally, scraping cleanliness. On the one hand, you are making zillions of sticky cast iron chips - swarf. On the other, you're using a surface plate to determine flatness to the micron. Sticky cast iron chips - swarf - from precision scraping transfer everywhere. They're contagious. A single chip will screw up the print. Compressed air, brushes, and shop towels distribute cast iron swarf. A vacuum cleaner sucks up swarf and concentrates it within its cannister, where it can never contaminate your work area. A shop vac with a clean filter and a long hose should be an essential part of every scraping work area. Vac up the work and the immediate area before you wipe down and debur the work. Vac your hands and forearms too. Scraping swarf is like cockroaches: see one chip anywhere and there is sure to be a few stuck in the blue on the plate and a whole constellation in the blue roller. Enough of my ranting. Good video, Keith.

[@edsmachine93]

Nice work Keith. Looks Beautiful. Thanks for sharing the process. Take care, Ed.

[@jwaterous224]

It's great that you can get the accuracy (and controlling it) of a lathe to be what it can be and do it in your own shop. Spending time learning to scrape is paying off. Scraping isn't something I would have ever thought of myself but I'm thinking it has been done for a long time all over the world.

[@johnbrock1602]

I had no idea that so much work an time went in to gating something straight an level. Thank you for showing all the work.

[@terminalpsychosis8022]

Scraping is a fine art. VERY impressive so see done with power tools, and so well too. The experience is vital, and can well imagine the power tools make is MUCH faster, if used right.

[@markowen7164]

Hi Keith. Been looking forward to seeing you're scrapping. I've really got to do something with my life. M

[@ActiveAtom]

I think I can say after watching so many scrapping videos on our journey so we can begin our self taught abilities in this skill we still want and need to learn so these videos of scrapping are never going to old with these two guys anyways. We love the blue mini straight edge now that is a tool small enough for this pair of micro machinists.

[@DJHale68]

A quick and easy way to check squareness of cross-slide to ways is to chuck up a large dia piece of scrap and take a cut across to the center. Then mount your dial indicator to the cross-slide and move the pointer across the piece to the center. the pointer will stay on zero across to the center but if you then continue past center to the other side, one of three things will happen - if it stays on zero you're good to go, if it increases you have a concave cone, and if it decreases you have a convex cone. make corrections till you get zero clear across.

[@Idontrunntoofast]

Nice! I've been doing it the hard way for a while now...

[@torque350hp]

I really enjoyed the leblond lathe series and this monarch series has been good. You have really put in a lot more work in this one its going to come up real nice I think.

[@jeremycable51]

I’ve been rewatching and rewatching as many of these videos as I can find i need to do mine on the koping I believe I’m gonna add turcite in an attempt to avoid making a new gib plus my my scraping experience a little easier if I fail I can tear it off and redo it without having to back up and punt on the casting

[@youcoulduseit7492]

great video,thanks for showing this great project . That lathe will be quite nice when done. didn't forget to hit the like button

[@bcbloc02]

Almost time for chips! Looking pretty good!

[@ROBRENZ]

Enjoyed Keith! ATB, Robin

[@WillyBemis]

Thank you Keith! Wonderful and informative as always.

[@Jim-ie6uf]

That's pretty tedsom work Nice job

[@K9Megahertz]

Question for anyone who reads and knows. I bought a Rennsteig 465 020 0 Carbide Flat Scraper a while back to do some scraping on some cast iron lapping plates I was working on. It got the job done but one problem I had was it seemed like I had to sharpen the blade after only doing a minute or two of scraping. It would basically start scratching the metal rather than scraping it. I was using an approx. -5deg. rake on the blade edge and a very minimal amount of curve on the blade. I was using a 3000 grit diamond grinding disc to do the sharpening. Beautiful mirror finish on the edge. I'm sure my technique was a bit lacking but I don't think it was bad enough to warrant having sharpen it every few minutes. From other videos I've watch it seems that others can go quite a while with out having to resharpen. Just wondering if I was doing something wrong or if maybe it was just a junk carbide insert on the scraper? Should I pick up some sandvik scraper blades? Another issue I had was it seemed the chips would get magnetized and would build up on the edge, I was constantly having to clean them off. Think maybe these were contributing to the scratches that I was seeing.

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing.

[@walterretlaw4051]

What is those yellow-liquid for contrast he used? Is any a technical paper that explain the admisible amount of blue pops in a certain area? Thanks in advantage and apologizes for my bad English.

[@tomondulich8113]

Looks great keith

[@VitaliyTym]

It is interesting how were made first machine tools when there were no machine tools

[@theoriginalDirtybill]

@keith what are you using for the yellow marking dye? i cant find shit for sale in the usa...

[@TrekDreamer11]

Thks for sharing your knowledge what grit are the precision bench stones?

[@gnorpflorbsen8665]

where do folks get a hand scraper?

[@DieselpunkMachine]

Thanks for the video! 9:43 the paint is too thick for counting so many points. Power scraping is too rough. The nut isn't adjustable vertically, which is bad news to the screw.

[@phildcrow]

Hey, Keith, why don't you get rid of that thing and get a big surface plate?

[@AlbiesProductsOnline]

Could someone please explain to me the reason for scraping? I have been trying to understand the reason for this proses from what I can see you take a flat machined surface and add scratchers and diverts in to the surface and then rub it on a flat surface to add bluing and then scratch off the high spots that you just made with the scraper the bit I don’t understand is you want the two surfaces to slide smoothly together but then you go and serrate the surface wouldn’t it cause ware and fine grinding dust between them that increase the ware how is that better than a smooth flat surface

[@ratdude747]

You need to have peaks and valleys for lubrication... the way oil rests in the valleys. Otherwise most/all the lubrication gets pushed out and you get metal-on-metal contact which will quickly wear out (similar to how cylinder honing works with the crosshatch patterns). Hence why the first step after grinding is to scrape a crosshatch into the surface. All the metal dust is cleaned off between scrapings (comes out with the brush or when windexing off the blue/yellow with a rag).

[@AlbiesProductsOnline]

Larry Bolan that is the thing I don’t understand the valleys contains oil but the peaks will be grinding on the mating surfaces peaks created fine dust that will mix with the oil in the valleys creating an abrasive wouldn’t it be better to have machined and ground surface with oil grooves wouldn’t that give a smoother more long lasting mating surface

[@ratdude747]

Probably because it's an open system (not in a closed sump)... oil would just flow out of machined grooves. Also, the finer points give a more even distribution- oil needs to get to the entire joint.

[@christophercullen1236]

Keith do you have part number and supplier of magnetic backed indicators please ? Christopher

[@AffordBindEquipment]

So the idea is not to have 100% contact when it's all done? What percentage of contact is left? 75% is there advantage to not having full contact to matching surfaces? Does oil make up for loss of full contact?

[@bradley3549]

One theory is that the scraped surface is better at retaining oil within the assembly. If the two surfaces were perfectly flat - think gauge block level of flat and smoothness, the parts would squeeze all the oil out and you'd have excessive wear. That's been my understanding anyway.

[@jamessonger3]

Wouldnt it be more accurate to put that stuff on the surface grinder?

[@kooldoozer]

Yes and maybe. I think it is somewhat of a practice of the technique for Keith. I have surface ground a few lathe compound and cross slides, and re-milled the dovetails. In that instance, the machining or grinding is usually 90% better than worn components. Scraping them in gets them just a bit closer to perfect.

[@dcmkcbbq]

Why do you scrape vs. lapping?

[@jamesrawlings8493]

How long do the points last before they wear down? It seems like the weight of parts will be concentrated onto (many) individual points instead of the full area.

[@jusb1066]

the rest will be an oil trap, so a long time i think

[@robertoswalt319]

Good question, I have seen machinery that has seen years of use that still has good scraping marks showing. Excessive wear comes from grit and or from lack of proper lubrication.

[@davidbright7411]

I have a friend that has a Monarch lathe that he wants to get rid of he is not sure of the model or year but it has a chain drive. Any interest?

[@paulcopeland9035]

Keith has 3 Monarchs. Probably enough!

[@randallanderson4999]

@@paulcopeland9035 What blasphemy!! You can never have enough old iron to work on. Hahahaha

[@barrycass2820]

Hi Keith .

[@mikenixon9164]

Really big project but it will be nice.

[@abdeljalilpr2033]

Is using a milling maching in the place of scraping a bad idea?

[@HaraldFinster]

you can prepare the ways for scraping by milling and refining with a surface grinder, but for a really good result you need to finish the ways using the scraping technique

[@manjitsingh-xc4tv]

Scraping a slideways is more able to demping vibration then other techniques ,, oil distribution is also good in scrapped way ,,,

[@erik61801]

yes.

[@Mekratrig]

When the machine was new, were these ways shiny smooth or scraped?

[@ClipperDays]

@@Mekratrig A good machine, like the Monarch would be scraped. The cheaper, Harbor Freight quality of machine, would have a finely ground surface. Hence the high precision possible with the Monarch versus the lower level of precision of the consumer grade Chinese machines.

[@johndebrular979]

Maybe a basic school on scraping would be needed. What is the objective of scraping ? I know you want to eliminate the high spots and make everything parallel. Does lubrication enter into this aspect ?

[@jaswats9645]

There are a few older vids of Keith in scraping class. The point is to get a surface as flat as possible, over the entire area. The gaps reduce the wear and friction/suction like you would have with 2 plates of glass. No lubrication is needed to scrape due to little heat but the abbreviated surface would allow more lubricant to stay on the surface when they rub against each other.

[@RagsdaleCreek]

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 👍 Watching in Alabama

[@toadjam12000]

You could of dress an angle on your surface grinding wheel to take out that ledge. Put your part in a sine plate or angle plate and surface grind it. Just do the math.

[@Mekratrig]

No doubt an ignorant question, but how is it that scraping all that metal off doesn't ruin the precision of the tool.

[@IBWatchinUrVids]

@m9 ovich Machined ways require voids for an oil film, or the surfaces rubbing together would gall. Perfectly ground surfaces would push out any oil, and would fail quickly.

[@d6c10k4]

Thanks for the video...I'd love to do a class like you put on. I see guys using the yellow contrast color....where can I get it and what is it called exactly? I'm more used to doing a lot of finish grinding so I might have been temped to set the base up on the grinder, dress a wheel, and clean up the dovetail. Should be able to get it within a few tenths before starting scraping.

[@duobob]

From Dapra: www.dapra.com/biax/scrapers/accessories.htm

[@williampugh6699]

What is the purpose of scraping?

[@davidkierzkowski]

William Pugh to remove metal

[@Otingocni]

to get surface flatter.

[@Otingocni]

also in this and most case to match surfaces to each other with great precision

[@dizzolve]

those biax' are so damned expensive ..... might just buy a new lathe lol

[@excavateboy]

Thumbnail thing lol. Keith, you need to talk to bcblock and try to get his monarch!

[@paulcopeland9035]

"try to get his monarch"??? What are you talking about?!

[@excavateboy]

It's a monster. I think it'll fit lol. Don't think he's interested in parting with it anytime soon unfortunately

[@Dwarfracer88]

"got the blue bottomed up" got those bass ackwards?

[@waynec369]

Lysdexia... can be a pain.

[@Dwarfracer88]

@@waynec369 I right know?

[@erik61801]

that `lectric scraper is the cats meow.

[@markowen7164]

Hay bob you too

[@65BAJA]

As of February 15th 17 people have surface plate envy.

[@garylogan5460]

use the stone or a shaper, why electric file.

[@nchtdiemama7267]

20 Points per square inch ? Maybe 10, never 20...

[@bobuk5722]

Hey, First! BobUK

[@bxb590]

Keith, You have to stop all the scraping. This has gone past the point of being redundant and BORING. I really do like the rest of your videos.

[@erik61801]

what you find redundant is repeatable precision to the rest of us, is your clicking finger on hiatus?

[@deathk26]

Don't watch the videos you don't want to watch. Such a simple concept that's absolutely foreign to so many, unfortunately.

[@torque350hp]

Hmm. Do u post videos? If u watch this channel u must like the idea of fixing things, right now this lathe needs a lot of scraping, or has needed. There are plenty of other things out there to watch, while those who want to watch different scraping techniques can watch this fine example till the project is done. :-) just pretend he didn't make it and watch the next one you like the sound of.