Hydrogen Peroxide From Percarbonate - Fail

A failed experiment in the attempt of separating hydrogen peroxide from a sample of sodium percarbonate. Possibly in the future I may revisit this experiment with a better setup, but for now it's simply an unfeasible method. Honestly, I'm only uploading this because I didn't want the footage to go to waste.
Link to the video on making salt bridges:
• Making a Salt Bridge -...
And the video making the power supply:
• Power Supply From a Co...
The video about the filter device:
• Simplest DIY Vacuum Fi...
Making the graphite electrodes:
• Making Graphite Electr...
And finally, the video where I make sulfuric acid from epsom salt using a similar method:
• Making Sulfuric Acid F...

[@midwestchem368]

I disagree this video is definitely worth watching! It was a valuable try with good information to take out of it! Never thought to try to get h2o2 out of something like this.

[@twicebittenthasme5545]

Very interesting. Brought back memories of working in a chemical processing plant. Intriguing setup. Love the end results. Shame the ultimate goal was not achieved. However, the crystal residue is quite interesting. I do wish it worked for you. Better luck next time, I suppose? Thanks for sharing this!

[@WaffleStaffel]

You had a theory and you put it to the test, you gave it an admirable try. The failed attempts have value too. I've found your videos useful. Anyway, for every one like you there are 999 who sit around and criticize. Looking into this possibility led me to sciencemadness where solvents were briefly discussed. Wikipedia - h2o2 is obtained by "solvents that cannot dissolve the carbonate but can leach the H2O2 out of it". More poking around brought me to "Concerning the preparation of anhydrous hydrogen peroxide" So if you're up for the danger there is a viable solvent if you have the glassware, vacuum pump, and blast-proof shed to work in. It should be pretty simple. Then you could immediately dilute. I honestly don't know if the extra drying steps are necessary if you're not going for a high concentration. I was looking into crystallization phase separation and the double eutectic points and I found an interesting paper titled "hydrogen peroxide and its analogues". I've only read Pt.II, but it's about an experiment to measure the precise freezing point of 100% pure hydrogen peroxide. You'll possibly be annoyed to know that I bought a quart of 3% h2o2 today at the dollar store.

[@ScrapScience]

Interesting stuff, I've looked into similar documents and it seems a little bit out of the scope of my setup currently, especially things like vacuum distillation. I'm glad to know that people appreciate me posting this anyway.

[@WaffleStaffel]

@@ScrapScience I don't even think the vacuum is necessary. Don't take my word on any of it though, I am a rank amateur who knows just enough to pose a danger to himself. I've played with electrolysis a few times and I didn't even know what a salt bridge was until the day I saw your video on them. If I ever try it I'll let you know.

[@nejiniisan1265]

Vacuum distillation is the best method, but it is very dangerous for H2O2. Since you are going to be working with a very high concentration of H2O2 steam (even if it is at room temperature) it becomes explosive. I, sometimes, work with 30% H2O2, it burns the skin instantly.

[@nejiniisan1265]

Non vacuum distillation would yield very little H2O2, because it decomposes at high temperatures.

[@SodiumInteresting]

@@nejiniisan1265 vacuum distillation of h2o2 I think you're distilling off h2o rather than making h2o2 steam. What can be dangerous is stabilisers and additives become concentrated along with the peroxide leaving a potentially explosive mixture 💥

[@jacobsimanek1333]

Results= results, well done

[@alfredomeiraxavier3245]

Síntese eletrolítica confusa ?mas abriu novas possibilidades para mim!

[@mernokimuvek]

MAybe just put the anode on top and cathode on bottom. After carbon dioxide is gone, you should be left with hydrogen peroxide and sodium hydroxide solution. Maybe you could seprarte them by crystallization.

[@chefe2152]

Soo intresting,here in Canada the percarbonate is stupid expensive. I wonder if you just mix sodium carbonate with peroxide, would it be the same as sodium percarbonate?

[@ScrapScience]

Yep, if you can get sodium carbonate and hydrogen peroxide at cheaper prices, that's literally the exact same thing.

[@chefe2152]

@@ScrapScience thank you,much appreciated

[@narogen3431]

Wow! Despite the failure this has to be one of the most entertaining chemistry videos i’ve seen in a while. Can’t wait to see you try the reaction with better membranes.

[@nejiniisan1265]

Nice! Working with hydrogen peroxide is always a pia. As from the previous videos, your method of using a ceramic bowl is great (recalls me of the Groove/Bunsen cell). It might have worked, but some things should be taken in consideration: 1) The percarbonate solution, depending on the amount of percarbonate you used, the H2O2 released was very small, so that you lost a lot due to the light decomposition + electrolysis + oxidation of the agar 2) What if you make a saturated percarbonate solution, then try to concentrate the amount of H2O2 by freezing it? The Na2CO3 would precipitate and, in the freezing process H2O would begin to cristalize first into small crystals (so you have to skim off the crystals before the solution freezes). You would have to repeat this freeze distillation a lot of times. After that you would get a solution with higher H2O2 concentration. Then you could try the electrolysys separation again. 3) Do the electrolysys in the dark, so that the UV won't decompose the H2O2. I could try finding some percarbonate here to try it out and see if works.

[@ScrapScience]

Neji Niisan thanks for the comment. I have since found the main reason for decomposition of the H2O2 and plan on making a follow up video in a while. I read somewhere that percarbonate solutions are, by nature, unstable, and the H2O2 will slowly decompose in the basic conditions. So after the video was published I reattempted the process by first neutralising the percarbonate solution with sulfuric acid. The resulting sodium sulfate/H2O2 solution seemed to work somewhat, as the H2O2 was still present at the end, though I didn't have the patience to run the electrolysis for very long and I had almost run out of gelatin. Thanks for the idea of freeze distillation, maybe I'll make another video testing that and other various methods I've since found for separating the peroxide.

[@nejiniisan1265]

@@ScrapScience, glad to know that you made it work! I like your channel a lot!

[@theaussienurseflipper.8113]

Try cleaning supplies company, U b surprised wot they sell. I'm in Australia too, cheers Graham.

[@129140163]

This is the first I’ve heard about hydrogen peroxide being illegal anywhere. You can get 3% H2O2 solution at your local grocery store in the US. I could imagine it being potentially illegal or requiring a license *in stronger concentrations*, but not categorically banned. ETA: Also, I have no clue where to find sodium PERcarbonate. In my area you can get sodium carbonate (I’ve only found it at Walmart), but I haven’t seen percarbonate in stores anywhere, at least not the pure stuff. The closest thing to that I’ve found is OxiClean.

[@realchiknuggets]

He said it's *not* illegal where he lives, just expensive.

[@superslimanoniem4712]

Over 12% is illegal to sell AND own in Europe, sadly. At least we still get the 3% ig.

[@bobthelegend997]

In the us it 1$ for 32 oz

[@bobthelegend997]

It’s 3%

[@mbburry4759]

Same here 3% 32oz less than $1 Na Percarbonate seems to be much better for cleaning nasty stuff though. But always wondered what percent it makes, hopefully he explains it

[@notnilc2107]

@@mbburry4759 Wikipedia says sodium percarbonate contains 32.5% hydrogen peroxide by weight. Idk how that translates after you dissolve it though.

[@realchiknuggets]

@@notnilc2107 I guess someone could first measure out an amount of water by volume, then add the sodium percarbonate to it until the volume is double what it was, then after the percarbonate dissolves, that new solution should be about 16% hydrogen peroxide, right? If something like that is right, especially if mixing it with a bare small amount of water, it's probably why sodium percarbonate manufacturers/sellers instruct to mix it with warm/hot water - since hydrogen peroxide can be so corrosive in higher concentrations and heat breaks it down much faster.

[@sextwister]

I feel like you would have a better shot mixing it with water. then you could distill out the sodium carbonate and call it a day.

[@gangsheit6501]

Yeah, I've been researching and looking into this for a while now before I actually go to trying it, that's the most common statement I see, even by the manufacturers themselves in MSDS sheets/PDFs

[@realchiknuggets]

I thought this whole thing seemed extremely overcomplicated for what manufacturers instruct to use it, but then again, I'm definitely no chemist. I don't even know if simply mixing it with cold water would yield a usable amount of hydrogen peroxide, or any at all.