Scream Bloody Gore vs. Seven Churches - Which Was the First Death Metal Album?

[@metalhawk66]

Chuck Schuldiner himself had answered to this question in an interview at Greek Metal Hammer back in 1998! And he said that Seven Churches was the first Death Metal album ever! But as about me, i totally prefer Death than Possessed

[@jol9178]

You're like all these people that can't make a difference between "this album is the first of this genre" and "I like this album". The fact you like Death more than Possessed doesn't make it the first death metal band. Anyway, "Scream bloody gore" is thrash metal, just as "Seven Churches" is.

[@bv2001]

Jo L Can you please explain why you think Scream Bloody Gore and Seven Churches are thrash albums and not death?

[@jol9178]

@@bv2001 Because eventhough they sound a step towards death metal, they are still deeply rooted in thrash metal : drums are pure thrash, riffing is thrash though just a bit heavier), and the vocals are a bit more growled but mostly thrash. Listen to these albums, then listen to Morbid Angel's "Altars of madness": the former sound thrash evolving into death metal, the latter straight death metal. Death's next album "Leprosy" sounds much more death metal than "Scream bloody gore".

[@bv2001]

Jo L I believe that these “kinda heavier” riffs and “ raspier vocals” that you mentioned is what differentiated death metal from thrash metal back then. As Jeff Beccera himself has said, Seven Churches was the first death metal album. Nowadays, maybe you think of it as more thrash than death because the genre has changed so much over the years, and maybe you can say its a mix of thrash and death. I dont listen to much death metal anyways, i kinda prefer thrash generally, but idk it seems to me kinda wrong saying that Scream Bloody Gore is thrash

[@spiralarips]

I prefer Possessed because is more raw

[@ironhammer8935]

Possessed made the term Death Metal and Death made the sound. Just like Venom made the term Black Metal and Bathory made the sound.

[@mordredtheinsane7974]

Iron Hammer I think possessed for sure gave more then just the name of death metal. you can hear possessed in many death metal and even black metal bands.

[@sawiola55]

youre right!

[@DownFallNetWork]

Iron Hammer possessed made the sound*

[@wingbuster18]

Demos for scream bloody gore date back to 1983. Death are first. Period.

[@DownFallNetWork]

the demos from possessed are older you idiot lol

[@robpivcevich6793]

still can't believe Larry Lalonde played with Primus after lol

[@KlumSyTurtl3]

Me too, when he said Larry Lalonde I called bullshit until I looked it up

[@TetrisShark70]

I heard that Larry Lalonde was in the thrash scene but I didn't know that he played with possessed

[@hankgege2199]

he also played in a punk thrash band called Corrupted Morals from the bay area. And Blind Illusion I think

[@arnoburtner380]

why not. a real musician plays anything he fancies. And he invented 2 original genres along the road. respect.

[@mclarenCR]

PRIMUS, of course, is way much more of a musical demanding thing

[@epicmeade]

I was in Death in 1985 ( I play on the Back From the Dead demo) and Chuck had already been doing his thing previously in Florida (with Scott from Repulsion). so he was already focused on his vision of what he was doing prior to Seven Churches. and what he told me was, what he was doing was "Death Metal'. Now I'm not really trying to enter into the argument, because back then I don't think most of the bands really spent much time Compartmentalizing themselves into some niche subgenre the way their fans later did. but I am saying that Chuck definitely had a vision that he considered to be Death metal. by the way, the blast beats, at least the ones we created, came via our drummer at the time, Eric Brecht, formerly of the punk band D.R.I. who in my opinion created 'blast beats' on their first LP. and I think that's why Chuck had called him and asked him to join (again, on the Back From The Dead demo). But, I also love Possessed, so if that's what someone wants to choose I'm down with that as well.

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Great inside information! And sir, as Death has been my third favorite band for years, it's an honor to have you look at the video!

[@epicmeade]

Thanks. It's kind of interesting for me to hear these arguments as it makes me go back and listen to the recordings of my time in the band with a kind of fresh perspective on what we were doing. on a different topic last year I played a big benefit show for a local musician that featured a lot of old scene musicians from the 1980s and one of the other people who played that night was Larry LaLonde of Possessed.

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Sometimes I wonder what Chuck would've said about the whole thing. He always seemed in interviews to think less competitively and more about how albums/bands bridged each other. There's the argument that Seven Churches, To Mega Therion, Morbid Visions, and Seasons of the Dead were just bridges to death metal but were still thrash at heart.. That's gnarly. Saw a picture yesterday of Bolt Thrower, Pestilence, and Autopsy on tour together. Wish I could time travel to be there!

[@hankgege2199]

@Blood Eagle 88 yes I agree. There you have it Eric Brecht of D.R.I. inventor of the blast beat

[@hankgege2199]

It had to be a hardcoe punk drummer to bring the blast beat to metal

[@hash-slingingslasher1374]

nice video Dave Mustaine Jr

[@GoblinSatyr]

I am the son of Spongebob Squarepants.

[@7YouTubeYT]

He kinda looks like David Ellefson

[@Mutabor1981]

@@7KZbinYT he’s dave and juniors lovechild.

[@MoSweiti666]

As much as I love Death, Possessed did it first. Even Chuck Schuldiner himself stated that 7 Churches was the first death metal album.

[@TYLERtheMAGGOT1]

Not only that but the first possessed album made death change their sound and was a big influence on death

[@M.ELIZABETHCC11]

when he said that? can you tell a particular interview? stop rumoring lies, If you love both bands, even then, you must be a little child that just accept everything to the first instance, pay attention of what you just said...

[@shagstars]

Not really Exorcist also did release a death metal like record in 1985 called Nightmare Theatre. Even the artwork is more disturbing looking that screaming bloody gore. You also had sepultura's first release in 1985.

[@piotrb8434]

@@TYLERtheMAGGOT1 It was not Possessed first album from 1985 that made Death change their sound but Possessed first demo from 1984.

[@montyjohnson8001]

Post a link showing us where Chuck said that.

[@Williameagleblanket]

Possessed is the first death metal album. Good video, thanks for posting. RIP Chuck.

[@ohgoditsjames94]

The Mantas (Chuck Schuldiner) tracks such as Corpsegrinder and Legion of Doom came out in 84 where as Seven Churches came out in 85and Evil Dead had also been written too, in fact the Mantas tracks influenced possessed so the honour clearly goes to Chuck.

[@iaksakkak1006]

James Smith dude get over it. No.

[@loganmurray8810]

se-pull-too-rah not sep-ultrah

[@MiguelCruz-uv3ui]

Logan Murray both wrong DUDE.

[@AgneGiselleNogueira]

superbombenhagel hahahaha

[@gavinator409]

It's funny cus thats how I thought it was pronounced before hearing someone say it the right way.

[@carlosjantarada7212]

Not quite... since they're from Brazil, the band's name with Brazilian accent sounds something like this SÉ (really opened "e", like in SEven ) - POOL (yep... exactly like "diving pool") - TOO (like "me too") - RAH (like the Egyptian god... curled "R" and slightly muted "A")

[@luiseppe4224]

Carlos Jantarada everything is right but the "sé", actually is se

[@nock3893]

It’s glad that you included Metallica as an example, due to the fact you’ve said multiple times you don’t like them. Going out of your comfort zone to prove a point is admirable.

[@DonutBalls528]

Death's demos are from 1984 and before that they were in a band called Mantas, Corpsegrinder was named after a song by Death titled "corpsegrinder" on their 1984 demo

[@AlexanderSlaughterFist]

I'm proud of you, I'm a metalhead since I was born (for my dads) and I watched a few videos of you and I like that you have a good pronunciation and you talk very good, you're not boring and that's important, keep doing this ... greetings from the end of America and the world, Chile.

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Thank you, amigo :)

[@AlexanderSlaughterFist]

You're welcome dude, would be good talk with u more often :)

[@junlingliu3790]

bro, it's talk very well

[@SprunkCovers]

Puta que es bakan que a muchos de mis compatriotas les guste el Death Metal, y el Metal en general, saludos desde Conce!!

[@shanepettie4217]

This is bullshit, it's common knowledge that the Shrek soundtrack was the first death metal album

[@ivangushkov3651]

Inncorect, Shrek soundtrack was pure goregrind...

[@Jesse-mh6hv]

😐 yea Shrek came out in 2001 and death metal and grindcore came out in the mid 80’s.

[@nickmoser7785]

No Shrek is pornogrind

[@witchfynderfinder1882]

Jesse Toy god way to kill a joke

[@ProfaneCreation02]

All star was the heaviest thing ever.

[@marvinthemaniac7698]

Trivial Fact: Jeff Becerra used to be the bassist and the vocalist for Possessed until he was left paralyzed from the hip down after being shot by a bank robber in 1990.

[@ユジン0]

Not a bank robber man,they are drug addicts

[@marvinthemaniac7698]

@@ユジン0 a drug addict shot him?

[@JS1966]

I was a huge fan of Mantas/Death. Love all their demos.....many of those songs never put on an album.

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

It's a shame really! You should hear the "Zero Tolerance" bootlegs they put out after Chuck passed, it features some of those demos and a demo to the Control Denied sophomore that almost happened

[@xtwogplays]

I would call Seven Churches a Death-Thrash album if you need to put them in one genre. Also, I love your channel! You make amazing videos and you need more people to know who you are!

[@MiguelCruz-uv3ui]

xTWOGPlays. Yeah ther was Alot of genre's back in the day like lots of bay area THRASH bands but possessed was on there own mission of death Metal WAS there at fenders long beach back in 86 and 87.sweet dead dreams 😈💀👍

[@sternpio]

The great thing is that Death Metal was mainly created by teenagers: Venom: Black Metal (1982), vocals and songwriting: Conrad Lant *19 years* Possesed: Seven Churches (recorded March/April 1985), lyrics and vocals: Jeff Becerra *16 years* Death: Sceam Bloody Gore (recorded November 1986), lyrics, songwriting, guitar, bass, vocals: Chuck Schuldiner *19 years* drums: Chris Reifert *18 years*

[@TheMetalWarrior1993]

Lmao at the way you pronounced Sepultura.

[@draft13]

I wouldn't have known that is what he was saying if I hadn't read your comment.

[@necrobeastofficial4547]

TheMetalWarrior1993 sep-ultra 😂

[@shrapnel77]

I originally pronounced the band this way as well. It was not until I met a Brazillian chick in my college class and I asked her how to properly say it.

[@wesleycalderon2282]

Michael Campbell fucking deal with it. You fucking pleb

[@taurusguy9305]

SEPULTRA

[@borisvandruff7532]

Dude, I am so happy you collect your albums on vinyl. Such a better experience. RIP Chuck

[@dertodesking8379]

The first time the term DEATH METAL appeared was in a fanzine from Tom Warrior of HELLHAMMER / FROST in 1983... Kam Lee said this was the first time he heard the term Death Metal (interview in Extremity Retained book)!!!

[@NightSide1349]

der todesking Finally someone said it and I 100% agree with you.

[@M.ELIZABETHCC11]

WISE GUYS , YOU BOTH

[@DemonDog444]

Very good.

[@osmani666death]

MANTAS (early Death) released their first EP on 1983, that contained pure death metal songs. So DEATH is the FIRST DEATH METAL BAND without a doubt. But seven churches by possessed is the first death metal full length album ever released, but that doesn't make them the first death metal band cause Mantas already released songs before them.

[@raulramirez9657]

Seven Churches had too much of a thrash sound to be the first death metal album. First ever death-thrash album sure, but SBG was the first true death metal album

[@MarmaladeMilkshake]

Sepultra are a great band. Although Megdeth, Ovkill and Exdus are my favourites in the Trash Metal subgenre.

[@mangy2fly604]

Pantra Metalca Slare Minstry Nuker Salt

[@angelotrinidad6888]

Testamnt Anthrx Krtor Tnkrd

[@mangy2fly604]

Fear Facry Nuker Holcost Pong May'm Tesmint

[@vietnamd0820]

MarmaladeMilkshake Trash metal and debt metal 4ever!

[@gabrielsworld4385]

@@vietnamd0820 fucking debt metal

[@SteveStell]

If I had a time machine, i'd go straight to 1985...just like those two other guys. 80's death metal rules.

[@shagstars]

good luck finding the album in 85. or even knowing about it.

[@Thedeadjoker666]

Possessed gave birth to Death Metal, and Death tamed it. Also, The Exorcists lead screams of Black Metal

[@azazulsoulmeister7959]

Incorrect, Sempiternal by Bring Me The Horizon was the first Death Metal album.

[@666belzebu9]

Nope. Design the skyline was the first one. Shut the fuck up

[@azazulsoulmeister7959]

Alright, that works. As long as it's done.

[@666belzebu9]

+Azazul Soulmeister Yep. But design the skyline is still a better death metal band than bmth

[@azazulsoulmeister7959]

666 Belzebú BMTH was never even Death Metal lmao. They were Deathcore.

[@666belzebu9]

+Azazul Soulmeister I know ahahaha I was just joking... who the hell would consider shit like that Death metal?

[@MrSFblack]

What Possessed created, Death refined.

[@twikirobot6897]

How so? Seven Churches blows the piss out of Scream Bloody Gore.

[@MrSFblack]

@@twikirobot6897 The production quality, the progressive song writing, the deeper and bleaker subject matter, the playing style that separated Death's sound from just really harsh sounding thrash metal and would become a staple in death metal. In tweaking the sound that Possessed created, they took death metal to another level. But hey, opinions.

[@jimmywhite6863]

@@twikirobot6897 fuck no

[@TheBennychin]

Goddamn I'm so jealous you have both albums and on vinyl.

[@WolfgangVonPoserkila]

I don't think Scream Bloody Gore could be called pure Death Metal. It was too thrashy for that. Leprosy was probably their first pure death metal album. Full props to Chuck for being honest about Possessed's influence on the Death sound. Death were good but "Seven Churches" is godly in a way Death never were.

[@regurgitatingblasphemy1109]

Wolfgang Von Poserkila all deaths early albums are thrashy to me. After spiritual healing is when they started having a slower approach

[@Goabnb94]

No, I personally think that SBG is more death metal than Leprosy, especially in atmosphere. Remember that death, especially the early stuff, is an offshoot of thrash. Leprosy certainly has a lot of death metal lyrical themes - nihilism, certainty of death etc, but so did SBG but more on the gore theme. Not quite the political/war aspects, or moshing/hating posers typical of thrash at the time

[@MiguelCruz-uv3ui]

The Classic Heavy Metal Vault. Death went the distance Thow with better quality follow ups, all by herself chuck wrote ,played + solos, sang, passed on like a loyal death metaller master!!possessed only had gates w dead production,storys are great, but now my homies play in that band still respect them but not the same, should of left it alone.

[@brolynangelify]

The Classic Heavy Metal Vault you sound stupid lol

[@nikolaikolev8252]

Regurgitating Blasphemy SBG is better than Leprosy

[@chargindave70]

Great fucking video! I love the way you break it all down. I grew up in the 80's listening to all of the underground metal and hardcore. I bought both of those when they were new. We knew both Possessed and Death stood out from the rest of the bands we listend to. We never heard the term death metal being thrown around at the time though.

[@funkybear1806]

Good review, good review. But there is an issue here: this is the assessment for the first ALBUM. Nevertheless, these bands were playing and giging around (Possessed in Cal, all the others in Florida), developing the genre in the process. For example, MANTAS, the birthband of Death, had already started developing the style (killer demo 1984), Morbid Angel and Xecutioner(Obituary) had also joined the club, at the same time that Possessed was..purifying its style? In parallel, in Brazil, perhaps in a much more independent way, SEPULTURA was developing the style too, then launching their 1985 Bestial Devastation EP. Concluding, I think the answer to who invented and/or developed death metal is not so simple.

[@m4yckthr4sh]

I love your video. I see many times the video because I like your explication but what's happen with Necrophagia and the Season of the Dead?

[@zegonzales1]

For Brazilian Death Metal roots , check out : Vulcano´s "Bloody Vengeance" , Sarcofago´s "I.N.R.I." , Sepultura´s "Morbid Visions" and "Bestial Devastation" and Mutilator´s "Immortal Force" . All of those sounds very extreme for 1886 and 1987 which where the years they where released ...

[@c.o.b.r.a586]

Black /Death metal

[@internazi]

WoW @ Jeff. Nice to see an organized commentary for a change. As it is I had a chance to meet Chuck and really wish he was here for these details of KZbin because from what I remember he wasn't treated well by the industry and I know all fans appreciate his and his. Long Live Possessed

[@cooldude123817]

I've always compared a lot of old school death metal albums, these 2 as some of those which I compare, to albums of Slayer. I believe Slayer's riffs were the biggest influence to Death Metal's instrumental sound. Also subbed dude. Sick video. Oh and, may I add, love the shirt.

[@leocalves]

You neeeeed to listen to I.N.R.I by Sarcofago. Mid 1987

[@cooldude123817]

leonardo alves Will check it out dude, thanks! Edit: Just listened to Satanic Lust and holy shit the blast beats are awesome!

[@leocalves]

Great! some says they've came up whit that.absolutelly brutal

[@cooldude123817]

leonardo alves Yeah pretty sick stuff.

[@macabresuede]

Nice video, as someone (myself) who was a teenager at that time and into metal (still am) when I purchased Possessed Seven Churches when it was released it was a game changer and I do credit them as the first Death Metal band. The band Death is one of my all time favorite bands and still listen to Human almost daily and is also a game changer but I have to give Possessed the credit as the first to bring it to a larger audience.

[@sergiomarin3905]

I

[@nebuchadnezzarii5421]

The fundamental problem with this debate is that it overlooks a very unique characteristic of underground metal, particularly (though not exclusively) black and death metal - that is, the role of the demo. In most other genres of music, a demo is something that is passed around (usually with no art, etc) to get a band signed by a label, and is passed around only as a promo item. In death and black metal, some of the greatest releases were demos (with artwork, and all the trimmings of a full album) - noteworthy examples being contributions by Tormentor (Hungary), Timeghoul, Obscurity (Sweden) and Necrovore, but literally hundreds more. The debate between Possessed and Death really refers to an assumption that a pioneering album needs to be released by a record label, and needs not to be on a self recorded tape. So with this in mind, I'd say that Necrovore's 'Divus De Mortuus', Incubus' S/T 87 demo and Morbid Angel's 'Abominations' demo are much better representations of pure early death metal. Death Metal has never really been defined by adherence to any other industry "standards", so it stands to reason that a record deal shouldn't define the nature of a release.

[@estebansteverincon7117]

Both Possessed and Death _had_ demos tapes as well. So what?

[@khanmaykr8021]

Actually the original pioneers of 'death metal' WAS Death with their 1984 demo

[@estebansteverincon7117]

Hellhammer had a demo in 1983.

[@khanmaykr8021]

Hellhammer isn't death metal

[@estebansteverincon7117]

Criptonus Kilagin What were they, then?

[@agenthunk5070]

well,at the time I say seven churches claimed the title Thrash Death Metal and Genre branch off from thrash Metal. Death just came along and founded it's core....for Death Metal...

[@WalyB01]

Bestial devastations! Talking about a heavy voice, the legendary Max himself.

[@KeikoFXDesigns]

Seven Churches blows away Scream Bloody Gore. I had both on Vinyl back in the day. Shit I was 14 when I had Possessed Seven churches on vinyl. I'm 51 these days. Old school for yah.

[@metalslinger]

I consider music to be a living thing that evolves over time. Metal is no exception. Possessed, I feel, was a step in the evolution from Thrash to Death. It still has the Thrash elements, but it also has the newer Death elements. Just like when I listen to both Judas Priest's and Black Sabbath's debuts, I can still hear the blues rock in it even though I also hear the heavier stuff that would become the mainstay of both bands.

[@blahblahblah5333]

What about sepultura's first album morbid Visions

[@b0gdan491]

Conclusion: Possessed made the term Death Metal... but Death made the sound and improved it

[@rodaki9408]

No, possessed made the genre, and death used and evolved it.

[@iaksakkak1006]

No. Chuck said it himself Possessed made the first ever DM album.

[@JustAdude291]

@@rodaki9408 exactly lol

[@marcosfernandezmartinez5284]

In Lyrics: Possessed not made the original of Death Metal lyrics and Death gave the true lyrics of Death Metal.

[@michaelgreene7041]

There is a song called Death Metal on Onslaught's "Power from Hell" which predates Seven Churches. Not sure Possessed would've been aware of this when they penned the closing track to their magnum opus.

[@kentakeura1617]

I remember me an my school mates were laughing hard every time we heard the intro of Pentagram on Seven churches - and for the good laughter I hold Seven Churches dearly - Good times!!! :)

[@thereptilian3268]

you forgot to mention that "seven churches" was influenced by Mantas. for those who dont know.

[@DaytonaGrey-RS5]

Interesting take! I would tend to agree with you on Seven Churches. I was just 12, beginning to listen to metal as my own genre away from my parents. And this album was undisputed as heavier than anything else at the time. Death certainly defined the Death Metal sound, but Possessed initiated that sound. Good analysis. Keep up the good work.

[@hodassayentllifschitz9893]

Venom was HUGE in the creation of death metal (and ofcourse black metal). Venom laid the foundation, the spark. Actually, if u wanna go a little further then it would be Black Sabbath to Motorhead to Venom to Metallica to Possessed, and just very shortly after Possessed is Chuck with Death.

[@ryanzdynamitephylon5830]

Yeah, that's true..

[@jprp999]

Until you said Metallica i was with you, change them out for Slayer, Hellhammer/Celtic Frost and Sodom then Death Strike/Master.

[@FinalBaton]

jprp999 agreed man, put celtic frost in there and maybe Slayer. but get Metallica the hell outta there

[@benmoyer3606]

They may be influential but that doesn't stop their music from being complete garbage

[@outis439-A]

Does for me

[@CharredRemains]

No one talks about Necrophagia, They were the first Death Metal band. RIP Killjoy

[@physicus372]

POSSESSED IS MAKING A NEW ALBUM \M/ \M/ \M/ YES YES YES

[@01theyounggun]

I loved the video but the way you pronounced sepultura pissed me off

[@YannickTMessiah]

Very funny hahaha

[@F0untain]

Never heard anyone pronounce it that way since '94, in the days before the interwebs

[@PhantomDancer4321]

his way of talking is usually annoying

[@archangel5627]

You gotta remember he’s from the Midwest.

[@purevycara]

Seven Churches was the first death metal album, introducing many elements that would become a staple of the genre, and it laid the blueprints for the genre, but scream bloody gore was the first pure death metal album, that truly defined, and laid the foundation of the genre.

[@raulramirez9657]

To be fair, the likes of Slayer and Kreator introduced many death metal elements before Possesed did.

[@FlavioRenatoEghon]

Great video. But I would like to mention some other important albums released in the year of 1985. SEPULTURA - Bestila Devastation (dec 85) BATHORY - The Return (may-85) KREATOR - Endless Pain (oct 85') CELTIC FROST - To Mega Therion (oct 85)

[@dustyrespass454]

looks like we got Beavis and Butthead here

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

+Marooner Dusty Huhhuhhuhhuhhuhhuhuhhhuh xD

[@mangy2fly604]

Shut up, Beavis. Want me to kick yer ass again?

[@eknim]

you nailed the beavis and butthead impressions at the end lmao

[@carterblunt4192]

So there's literally a song called "death metal" on the earlier album...

[@tommythecat7752]

Yeah. The whole argument is stupid. If you coin the term "Death Metal", then whatever the sound of that song is, that is Death Metal. Black Metal is the same. People say Venom isn't Black Metal but they were the first band to use that phrase

[@mooseclappin11]

People who say that Venom aren't black metal are cancer.

[@carterblunt4192]

From the black metal I've listened to, it's hard to digest. Is it supposed to be underproduced and broken sounding? The vocals are kind of just talking in a... constipated voice? What would the genre be called if it's really heavy, loud bass mix, and low growling? Death metal is a bit high pitched for what I'm looking for.

[@tommythecat7752]

Carter Blunt Yes it is actually meant to be underproduced. Fans of Second Wave of Black Metal like that. I personally don't care, I love it either way

[@tommythecat7752]

Carter Blunt But Venom doesn't sound like that. They're Thrash/Punk. They coined the term Black Metal because their main theme is Satan

[@obeythehomeless]

I love how you're talking about brutal fucking death metal with such passion and calm

[@armandom4674]

Pueden ponerle subtítulos en español?

[@iamnotanumber100]

killer upload, keep them coming man 🎶✊🎶

[@Substancestone]

You're absolutely right here. Death Metal just didn't appeared out of nowhere. Possessed brings out the Death Metal roots right of the Thrash and Black Metal classics and everything you say makes sense. Seven Churches is a wild crushing evil Death Metal release and for me the first one to be made with those kind of properties. As for Death they did something different but still very beautiful. And yes they brought the growling to the scene in their demos. I love them both but got say that Seven Churches is the one that brought all the pieces together!

[@ohgoditsjames94]

The Mantas (Chuck Schuldiner) tracks such as Corpsegrinder and Legion of Doom came out in 84 where as Seven Churches came out in 85and Evil Dead had also been written too, in fact the Mantas tracks influenced possessed so the honour clearly goes to Chuck.

[@M.ELIZABETHCC11]

@@ohgoditsjames94 when a wise guy like you, makes facts clear..Chuck smiles somewhere..because is fair you know

[@shagstars]

Riffs on seven churches reminds me of slayer and Sodom with some death metal like riffs here and there, dive bombs & blastbeats were present in: speak english or die from SOD which is a crossover thrash band. Vocals can also be tracked back to Sodom for using grunts in thrash. So we have to look for other characteristics like for dropping the double kick beat for a slower more different drum patterns which were more there in SBG than on Seven Churches but yeah it's more on which perspective you look at it.

[@BirdsElopeWithTheSun09]

To me, Leprosy is the first real death metal album.

[@kaiusbacterius9]

Ican partly see why you think- its loaded with brutal heavyness and stacato skeleton rythms

[@Retf-d3p]

The sun watch the brutal death metal vs Pink Floyd

[@BjornHungry]

Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing

[@BjornHungry]

Leprosy the Band not the album by Death

[@giancarlobocchetti9392]

I totally agree

[@Chris-rs2bg]

I believe i had heard Possessed before Death, but the question is nearly impossible to determine. Both are unquestionable classics

[@neuroisis85]

Possessed was a thrash band, a very brutal and wild thrash band but still a thrash band. Death took that general sound tightened up the playing, refined the arrangements and focused the brutality and aggression with a more precise attack. Possessed had the basic elements but Death where the first to put all those elements together in the correct formula. Much like Bathory did with Venom's general sound.

[@benjamincobosugarte5569]

I'm curious about that book that appears in the video I couldn't figure out the name of the book, I'm interested in reading it

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Choosing Death: The Improbable History of Death Metal and Grindcore

[@connorwalls5300]

What's the name and author of that death book?

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Choosing Death: The Improbable History of Death Metal and Grindcore by Albert Mudrian

[@connorwalls5300]

Killbot&GorGorAttack!! Cheers!

[@robertricciotti3266]

Cool video love both records definitely good points both records were extremely important for the death metal genre and I also enjoyed ur Beavis and Butthead bit at the end ? 😆 lol

[@kevinleonard2368]

When Sepultura was still underground in the mid 80's, we pronounced it exactly like the reviewer.

[@gongshow3045]

Why?

[@midwesthaunts242]

Bathory's album Bathory vs Venom's album Black Metal, which was the first Black Metal album?

[@TheFlameBladeWielder]

I think you should have compared Seven Churches to a different kind of thrash, the First Wave Black Metal stuff, like Sodom, Venom, Destruction and Hellhammer. Personally, I think it sounds most like them

[@pietrayday9915]

Possessed sounds A LOT like Venom, Sodom, Hellhammer, Destruction, early Sepultura, and the rest with Venom being the one band that laid down the template for all of those, plus later death and black metal acts. Possessed in turn sound a LOT like Deicide and Morbid Angel, two bands that I've always been more inclined to think of as American black metal bands, than death metal. Not that I think the distinction between first wave black metal, first wave death metal, and extreme thrash metal were all that big or important - I've heard people try to invent an "extreme metal' or "proto-black metal" pigeon-hole for these bands, alongside the likes of Mercyful Fate(!) or even Discharge(!), as if they'd all neatly fit into into such a subgenre together and solve all the pigeon-holing problems, but the truth is, there really weren't any neat, distinct lines between these bands, other than the fact that they were each pushing the boundaries explored by Venom and a few other metal and punk bands of the era in their own, distinct ways... these bands were death and black metal at the same time, at a time when the maps everyone was navigating by were drawn only by thrash metal acts.... In any event, the reviewer did specifically mention both Sepultura and Morbid Angel at least, and that's a great place to start looking to find the greater context for the Death and Possessed albums. Really, back in those days, we would have called any of those bands thrash, death, black, or just metal or even heavy metal, and everyone would have known what we were talking about without any spit-takes or arguments. The obsessive pigeon-holing only came in later, through the 1990s, when the record labels started realizing there was money in marketing different genres. "Want more bands that sound like Death with the serial numbers filed off? We've got a whole catalog full of death metal, all with the same handful of musicians in them, with the same producers working at the same studio with the same equipment and instruments, and the same artists producing the same artwork on the same assembly line - collect them all!" Before that, nobody cared much that Possessed didn't sound precisely like Death, or who set the template that everyone else would copy first - not sounding exactly like the template was a selling point back in those days, and it was glorious.

[@bryan3103091998]

Incredible video, greetings from Mexico :)

[@glabela1494]

You forgot the 1984 demos of both Mantas (early name of Death) and Possessed, Possessed was Thrash and Mantas was very close to Death, even more so than Possessed's Seven Churches.

[@metalmeister3054]

I would have to agree that Seven Churches is fundamentally a Death Metal album. I always considered "Schizophrenia" by Sepultura a death metal album also which came out in 1987 even though there are way more thrash elements to the album, it just always seemed so much darker than typical thrash. A notable mention would also be Celtic Frost "Circle of Tyrants". WOW!

[@SRNF]

I can't help but retaining Death's album of being the first of its kind. A stand alone death metal masterpiece. It was a pure version and lets face it, I know you spliced things nicely but anyone who listened to Seven Churches front to back knows there is a shitload of thrash in it. Still a great pioneering album but definitely an incomplete picture of what was to come.

[@JunkfoodZombieGuns]

I find it interesting that you very briefly mentioned Sepultura but didn't talk about the fact that their EP, Beastial Devastation had much the same vibe as these other two albums (especially Seven Churches). I know they were generally considered a thrash band, but their stuff evolved quite a bit over the years and their early stuff definitely has that "beginnings of death metal" vibe to it. And that also came out in 1985. Thanks for the video.

[@eriksenbriggs]

I think this is more of a personal opinion, since the albums are close, yet so different. For me, SC is not a death metal album, but more of a dark thrash metal album. SBG on the other hand, is balls out death metal.

[@CannibalClown96]

Great video man! Really well put together, entertaining, and I agree with you that Seven Churches is Death Metal, and shaped the genre before Scream Bloody Gore came out. I thought of an interesting album to add to the debate as well: 'Unreleased 1985 Album' by Master. It wasn't actually released until 2003, but I believe it was recorded just before or at the same time as Seven Churches, which means technically, you could call it the first DM full length- but then it was never released, so maybe not?

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

You could also argue Kreator's "Pleasure to Kill", maybe Morbid Angels "Abominations of Desolation" if you call it an official release, Volcano's "Bloody Vengeance" and Necrophagia's "Season of the Dead." but these two are the albums that are always being brought up, so why not? :) thanks for liking it!

[@justinbailey2356]

Death Strike's "Fuckin' Death" deserves a nod too. It was originally just a demo, but a damn fine one that was the beginning of the career of Paul Speckmann who has carried on the torch of 80s death/thrash ever since.

[@ohgoditsjames94]

The Mantas (Chuck Schuldiner) tracks such as Corpsegrinder and Legion of Doom came out in 84 where as Seven Churches came out in 85and Evil Dead had also been written too, in fact the Mantas tracks influenced possessed so the honour clearly goes to Chuck.

[@brutalnecrodude6667]

Possessed’s Seven Churches is the kid who told the joke Death’s Scream Bloody Gore is the kid who said it louder But if Seven Churches didn’t say the joke Scream Bloody Gore wouldn’t have said it either

[@jimmywhite6863]

This isn't true because Death was making death metal before Seven Churches was released. Seven Churches was even inspired by Mantas (Death).

[@clementvw]

I was there, struggling to play riffs of both bands in 1985. Before the Possessed album came out i was in possession of countless rehearsal tapes and demo's of Chuck, Possessed was just "lucky" to have their stuff albumized before Chuck did. When i comes to album, sure, Possessed was first, but for influence.... pretty much every aspiring deathmetal musician at that time was studying Death Tapes. By the time SBG came out, the thrash scene was flooded with new bands and albums and Death kinda got lost in the crowd, this is especially true for later generations who were not at the edge of their seat for 3 years waiting for Scream Bloody Gore to finally come out.

[@lightofdisaster1]

good video ! but what about 1984 Mantas demos? songs like "Corpse Grinder" and "Legions Of Doom" ? "Evil Dead" was written at that time too.... It sounds way more Death Metal than 1984 Possessed demo "Death Metal". Just listen and compare. Possessed vocals sound like Venom, music too. the only song on that EP that stands out and is pretty Deathy is "Burning In Hell" - with that fast tremelo picking stuff. But Death did tremelo picking in 1984 too. And music was heavier - riffs and especially vocals, whereas Possessed was directly "taken" from Venom especially if you listen to song "Death Metal".... So that part when "Chuck got Possessed demo and said this is the way we gotta be" - I just CAN'T believe. Like I said, I just listen to 1984 Mantas songs "Corpse Grinder" and "Legions Of Doom" and they sound heavier than any song on Possessed EP "Death Metal'1984". Your thoughts? And thanks for the video man, good job \m/

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Absolutely, the Mantas demos were more death metal sounding. Even the Hellhammer demos were pretty death metal sounding, despite whatever everyone wants to call them now (several different names can apply, I guess). It's hard to determine the first death metal DEMO because a lot came out around the same time or can be called death metal retroactively, but albums tend to be easier to track so the discussion has always been about these two albums. Yeah, some of the interviews do sound a bit far-fetched, not to mention cryptic. It was probably the attitudes of both bands at the time that caused all of this confusion to begin with, with both of them trying to be the most extreme bands on the planet in different ways but at the same time. But good points!

[@chrispycrackle4387]

Light Of Disaster I was literally about to write that, %100 agreed the first ever death metal band/artist was Chuck Shuldiner/Mantas that demo is a fuckload heavier than anything possessed did and it was earlier than anything else, as well as chuck starting death metal with mantas demo he also created Technical Death Metal with Symbolic truly a legend :)

[@Holocausticfumes]

Yet one more "know it all" who even after Chuck said Possessed was the sole reason Death sounded the way they did...Bright future and you band sounds like millions of other bands...Accomplishments on...0

[@5retsam]

Light Of Disaster you are correct

[@M.ELIZABETHCC11]

I think you are a wise person, I come every once in a while, to check the situation, and is a sad thing man, because people discredit facts and just tend to overpower suppositions of a great band, but yet very ego burned up, Possessed is running against what Schuldiner said, and all these new fans that say love both bands, believe rumors, even if Chuck was a very humble guy, he did for sure will never like all the perceptions that Becerra makes as a final statement like in the interview he gave for blabbermouth.net..where he " puts a final" to the argues of what is the very beginning of the genre.. mostly because he declares of been the creators in all forms...forgot to mention all the important facts chuck said were influencial like Venom, Celtic frost, hellhammer, kreator etc...even a great band should never forget humbleness in Sculdiner's birthday or his death anniversary, please check how just the final line is just going directly to chuck..you need to know very little of psychology or semantic to realize is just possessed's promotion to declare the first Death metal band..there's an urgency very cristal clear for god's sake... is crap because I love to hear all bands, but egos ruin the spirit of the music...ahh...I'll just listen to blood in the playground by Anvil has the power to calm!!

[@saintlotus93]

Okay, so I never looked up who the members were in Possessed, listened to them a ton but never bothered for some reason. BUT HOLY SHIT when you said "Larry LaLonde" my fucking mind blew as someone who was a huge Primus fan as well as Death Metal fan lol. I feel dumb now.

[@TheIzach123]

hey man keep doing what you do. I really respect your taste in music and What are some of your favorite bands?

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

+Izach I would do a video on it, but that's such a permanent list right? ;) Dystopia, Autopsy/Abscess (same band really), Death, Ghoul/Gwar (can't pick one over the other), Godflesh, Nile, Suffocation, Nine Inch Nails, Ramones, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, His Hero Is Gone and I've been addicted to Skinny Puppy quite a bit lately...

[@TheIzach123]

That is really cool man, I really enjoy pretty much the same. Currently been digging my teeth into Havok, Skeletonwitch, Uncle Acid. but my favorites include Slayer, Obituary, Death, Black Sabbath, Cannibal Corpse, Anthrax, Motorhead, and Metallica!

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

+Izach Oh that's cool. I've been into this for years, that list is only a rough draft as of course there are several bands I listen to just as equally... Actually been getting into Cure lately. Really loving At the Gates, Haemorrhage, and Origin too.

[@TheIzach123]

the Cure? that's metal af

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

+Izach Oh yeah, the way Brandon Lee transforms into the Crow and "Burn" plays? You're going to go onto the roof and act like a superhero for a few minutes.

[@bloodofthetyrant]

Very well done. Awesome video. I have to give it to Possessed as well.

[@scottbaxter3586]

neither of those albums have blast beats on them

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

Neither do most Obituary albums!

[@doodlepig1670]

Blast beats are Grindcore type shit not Death Metal at all

[@acemotherfckenfrehley9793]

here is one of my biggest "metalhead" pet Peeves, someone comes across perfectly enjoyable death metal, then complains about the lack of fucking blast beats. ill say one thing YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO SOME MOTHER FUCKIN ASPHYX, no blast beats required. i love blast beats but old school death metal was just fine without

[@doodlepig1670]

+Acemotherfcken Frehley Yeah you've got a good point, hell I don't even like blast beats.

[@bihan1429]

Haha, as soon as I heard him say that I wondered how many people would pick him up on it, I scrolled down and yours was the first comment I saw

[@karllux-d6g]

you must make it a trio - i agree 100% with your clean-cut analysis, but I just can not ignore Necrophagia's lost debut album , prior to Season of the Dead. It only came out as a bootleg in 1990 (as 'Ready for Death'' ) but was recorded in 1986. If you check Metal Archives, you'll find the reason for the delay. Anyway, that first proper sounding lost album by Killjoy's combo is definitely mean Old school DM, muddy, sludgy and bloody ´, which would be followed in 87 by a contemporary of ''Scream Bloody Gore'', that is Season of the Dead. All of a sudden, between 1985 and 87, we get 4 seminal DM albums, and two are by Necrophagia... When Venom's Welcome to Hell came out I was 18 and I followed the stream of extreme music ever since; when 7 Churches arrived I was doing a Metal radio show on Regional FM here in the North of Portugal, with a team of highly professional metalhead radio fellows and we never blinked before announcing Possessed's debut as a Death Metal Album, but we didn't care whether that was the first specimen in the genre or not. Last month I bought Revelations of Oblivion on dlp, roughly 33 odd years after The Eyes of Horror, and I was pleasantly surprised that, first, this heroïc DM band will never fall into oblivion, thanks to young speakers like you, and 2nd, the album sure works as a revelation of Jeff's willpower to gather a fine team of highly skilled Metal musicians and create a new Possessed.

[@eliallday532]

necrophagia anyone?

[@DefenestratedMessiah]

they were death metal but to me, their stuff was nowhere near as brutal as other early ones like Scream Bloody Gore/Morbid Visions/INRI/etc.

[@Tricker-the-licker]

Shit

[@issacabraham8732]

I just noticed you mentioned season of the dead in the description ahaha

[@jespernobbe676]

SEPULTRA?

[@addisonlewis723]

+InputSilver9 Your grammar though..

[@autumn_of_thought]

C - U - N - T ?

[@addisonlewis723]

Omar El Gelani He had horrible punctuation.

[@autumn_of_thought]

Addison Lewis Right, punctuation is so damn important in online threads to avoid miscommunication.

[@autumn_of_thought]

Addison Lewis Yeah I know man, I have this unejaculated load too so I'm feeling down today, I'm just gonna stop ranting now.

[@TetrisShark70]

3:42 Larry Lalonde? Like Primus's Larry Lalonde?!

[@menusanjesh9132]

Yes. He was in Possesed. He went on to form Primus after Possessed disbanded

[@jon9274]

Possessed is more thrash in my opinion Also subbed \m/

[@sirrealist5897]

As a huge fan of old school Metal music, and by old school I mean genres from the 80’s such as Heavy Metal, Glam Metal and Thrash Metal; I didn’t get into Death Metal until about 1994. When I did the first two records I bought were ‘Death’- Scream Bloody Gore & ‘Possessed’- Seven Churches. For me it’s a very close call as to which is the originator of this genre of metal. I’m sure it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things as often such things are subjective issues anyway. The main thing is that both bands and both albums were pivotal in defining a new sub genre. My favourite Death Metal album of all time incidentally is Deicide’s debut. So there we go!

[@Speed_Metal_Attack]

you didn't even mention who coined the term death metal. celtic frost was extremely important in forming death metals existence

[@mitcht.410]

Hellhammer was definitely an influential band at the time but yeah Possessed with it's song Death Metal were kick starters of a new metal genre. Nice video !

[@sconni666]

I saw both of them in the 80’s. Possessed at L’amour Brooklyn opening for Slayer, and Death headlining at Streets in New Rochelle. I’m just glad I was there.

[@DjVolumeUp200]

The fact that Seven Churches has a track named "Death Metal" means nothing, since it wasn't the first band to do so. It was actually Onslaught with their debut album "Power from Hell", released in February 1985, that included a track named "Death Metal" first.

[@datsunmadman]

Cool video... I bought the Possessed seven church around 1995. 3 years later I got into Black Metal.

[@sarahg.2499]

Haha u said Tom A Ray Uh..it's Tom A Rye Uh. Also Sepultura XD. That's alright mate, everything else u said was right on. \m/

[@shrapnel77]

Nice job Dude! I like your use of examples when you were making comparisons, although they were hard to hear. I also was wondering what made you not consider Celtic Frost's "To Mega Therion?" I mean, who the hell uses French horns on a death metal album and sound good? It also came out almost two years earlier than SBG. Couple of other helpful hints: #1 - It is called tremolo, not tremlo. #2 - Fill the cup at the end with red colored corn oil and let it all spill out when you drink it. #3 - Someone has had to say that you look and sound like Crispin Glover.

[@KillbotAndGorGorAttack]

They could be considered death metal, though I'm kind of on the fence between that and extreme metal for how to describe that album. Commonly it's these two albums that get debated, so maybe I should've named the video "Is Seven Churches a Death Metal Album?" But thank you for watching! I like Crispin Glover, I just hope I'm not a dead fuck!

[@shrapnel77]

Maybe you could ask Biff for some pointers with the ladies. Metal for life.

[@samuelblinne6040]

Love death

[@vamoelmillo1011]

SEVEN fuc*ing CHURCHES is not only the first death metal album, also is the best metal album of all times!!!

[@ozricness]

Thanks, very interesting and entertaining. I think it would have helped a bit if when mentioning certain song features like riffs, drum patterns etc, you played all the relevant parts. If you take Haunting the Chapel and Hell Awaits into account I reckon you can find a lot of similarities between them and Seven Churches. For me it stands right on the supposed dividing line between thrash and death.

[@DyingCr0w]

Possessed were trying to appease trash metal, punk, KKK and who knows what fans alike, and ended up being something very chaotic. Death (Chuck), with Scream Bloody Gore, on the other hand, had true identity, enough maturity and 1000% consistency. Death were one of the very very few mature bands of that era, actually. There's no melodic twisted riffs or rock'rolly solos, it's pretty much all in your face mature. Many bands back then had shit rock'rolly guitar solos, which make them look horribly immature nowadays. Death's Leprosy, with it's immense expanded complexity beyond SBG, was the definite godfather of true Death Metal, as a genre. That album is as brutal and spotless as any should be, even by today's standards (aside grind and core for brutality). All late 80's till mid 90's Death Metal sounded like Leprosy, so there :D .I still give Possessed credits for laying the experimental grounds for something outrageous, tho, but i cannot consider them the godfathers of Death Metal, no.

[@Holocausticfumes]

and you were not alive at the time....never stray from making your idiotic gaming videos....POINT!

[@arnoburtner380]

KKK? explain

[@davidfinkledrums]

Seven is absolutely death metal...considering it 'thrash' is not accurate. I'm 50...we were there and death metal is 100% what WE all called it. Considering Seven 'thrash' makes bout' as much sense as Scream. In fact re: MIX and recording values...Scream is more likely to be considered thrash. Even though it is not. The order goes as follows: Slayer in 83', Possessed in 85' and the Chuck came along in 87' and sealed the deal with Scream...and told us all how the hell it was supposed to be mixed. (Chuck was one the very first guy's to downtune as well I believe.)

[@TheCIScommander]

"Controversial Opinion TIme" I do not like Seven Churches. It's hard to listen to, mostly because of how awful the drummer is. He can't keep time, speeds up on all of the fills (which are incredibly sloppy), can't use a double bass pedal, and sounds like he's hitting his snare with a feather. The guitar and vocal work is actually pretty good, and if they had an actually decent drummer I would probably like the album a lot more, but as it stands I only see it as a part of history rather than an album that I would want to listen to. Musically I think Scream Bloody Gore is a far superior album due to the presence of a competent drummer.

[@TheCIScommander]

I'm primarily a guitarist, but I play drums and bass as well. Obviously drumming is an incredibly difficult and taxing job, however that doesn't excuse how sloppy his drumming is on the album. Death Metal requires pinpoint precision, and the drumming on Seven Churches is anything but that. And even if I didn't play drums I would have to have a good understanding of what the drummer is doing as it makes the band so much tighter. The drummer is the timekeeper of the band, and him constantly speeding up and slowing down like that throws the entire band off. A bassist can afford to flub a note or two, as can a guitarist. A drummer really can't.

[@Holocausticfumes]

The odd time signatures throw you off....VERY TELLING...INDEED!

[@TheCIScommander]

Nope, definitely not the time signatures that throw me off. I listen to Meshuggah and Tool and Animals as Leaders just fine. Hell I write stuff in crazy time signatures like 27/8. It's just really sloppy drumming.

[@neuroisis85]

Completely agree on your assessment of Seven Churches. The primary reason I believe Screaming Bloody Gore was the first DM album is precisely because of the tightness in the playing. To me that better musicianship is one of the biggest differences in determining what is death and what is thrash in the 80's when death metal was still quite tied to thrash.

[@arnoburtner380]

@@neuroisis85 dear people, give this useless discussion a rest. c'mon.