Scribe Race Wheel needs some help getting stiff

[@ScribeCycling]

Hi Mapdec, we just came across this video. Great footage and I thoroughly enjoyed watching it, thank you for sharing. 🙂 Just a couple of comments on the wheels if it's okay, and as always, very friendly 🙂. All of our wheels are designed for purpose and the Race wheels have been deliberately designed to be a lightweight, fast responding wheelset. This means overall, they have less material to keep the weight as low as possible, without compromising on strength. I may have missed it but did you mention the rider's total combined weight as it's a fine balance to get right if the combined weight is maxing out the top end of the wheels? To build more lateral stiffness into any wheel, you can add more weight through heavier spokes/ rims etc., which does increase the overall stiffness (however, there's a balance to stiffness/ comfort to get right as too stiff = less comfort), but the weight increases also. The other thing(s) you can do is to have shorter spokes by increasing the flange heights (more weight), and you can also design the anchor points to be farther apart (obviously you have to make a sensible decision on the design in this case). It's worth pointing out that round spokes are stiffer, but they are also less aero and by using non-aero spokes, the wheels will be slower when at speed - again, these are race wheels, designed for racing at speed, hence the spoke choice. We are all riders at this side and we always see things from the customer's POV, and if the customer has any issues with flex, we are readily available to help them out and we're forever here if they need us. This is no different for this customer and we would have provided a solution free of charge. As touched on at the start, all of our wheels are built for purpose: we have 4x rim brake wheelsets in our range; each with a different group of riding. The Dutys, or the 365s for example are both 1:1 lacing with 2x/2x, and 2x/3x respectfully (The Duty wheels are very stiff but still have aero spokes; the 365 are similar in stiffness but have round spokes) and may have been a better option for this rider as the overall weight loading is higher (both max loading of 130kg). You made a good point regarding the location of the max loading on our website and I will have it added to the specification box at the top of the page. We have a huge wealth of experience. Dan and Paul are master mechanics and they QC check every wheelset that leaves our warehouse, so although we post on social to help increase our brand awareness, we're not a faceless company by any means. As above, we're pretty much all riders that live and breathe cycling. We do this because we love cycling :-). Thank you for sharing Mapdec and I hope it's okay to comment here. Please let me know if you would like me to remove this mate. Many thanks. Alan.

[@Mapdec]

All good. Thanks for adding your thoughts. The rider is very happy that we seem to have solved his flex and brake rub issue and they haven’t seen any real negatives. I will pin your post to make sure everyone sees your response. Thanks for sharing.

[@mathisgraening1931]

I am looking to get the 365 wherls, thanks for this exchange, very helpful:)

[@jcsrst]

That was really interesting and very informative! So much today comes down to buyer beware... I ALWAYS spend a fair amount of time researching ANY product if I haven't bought from a company before. Sometimes you have to REALLY do a deep dig to find information. Once again thanks for educating us on what to look for in a wheel👍

[@Mapdec]

Thank you for the kind words.

[@oftankoftan]

Nice to see a mechanic do the proper labor without shortcuts. People always ask me what brand of bikes are good. You can have a cheap brand bike with cable disc brakes and tourney shifters and a good mechanic will make it run great.

[@Mapdec]

Oh god yes. People spend thousands on badly adjusted Dura Ace.

[@BikeLife154]

I have 2 sets of Scribe wheels. One disc and one set Rim brake. Can’t say I’ve had any real problems with either set. I had a spoke break after 2 years on the back disc wheel. No flexing or rubbing. I’ve noticed that many companies have gone to Pillar spokes from CX ray (not only Scribe) and say it’s an upgrade. We all know that’s not true! I bought both sets of wheels when the prices were lower and saw them as a good deal. Nowadays the Scribe prices have gone up dramatically and are no longer as an attractive proposition. One positive with the likes of Hunt and Scribe is you can CONTACT them and they are super helpful with any complaints or questions. Try doing that with the big brands! Very informative video, thanks!

[@nicolasmcmillan1210]

Love the insights your giving, have to say though Scribe in my experience have the best customer service when things go wrong I've ever experienced. Was a bit unlucky with a manufacturing defect on a pair of carbon wheels but after a few emails and I had a new pair 7 days later in Abu Dhabi! I'd use them again without thinking and I've covered approx 10k km on the new wheels without issue. Oh and I have a look bike in my garage now thanks to you😂

[@Mapdec]

Thanks for sharing

[@CuriousMind_LVG]

So far no issues with my Scribe Race D wheels. I’m about 80kg but living in the Midwest of the US, don’t have many hills with which to contend. I’ll be keeping an eye on them though.

[@JamesSocialCycling]

I have a set of scribes, first spoke broke 1200 miles in, then 2000 miles in I had a warranty claim on the rear wheel, which they sent me a new one. Now they’re sitting in the shed, as I feel better riding my spare set of Mavic Aksiums. Good video as always.😊👍

[@Mapdec]

Thanks James.

[@janeblogs324]

Aksiums are the cheap "good" mavics meant for heavy riders and reliability. All my cosmos and up are turds. Plastic driver bearings, alloy axle/threads, 2 pawl driver, split nipple holes. Total garbage for how heavy they are

[@Peluche54]

I recently did realize there's some flex with my Scribe Race wheels, light brake pad rubbing that doesn't occur with DT PR1400 or Fulcrum R4 (I like short free stroke on the levers). Not ready to have all the spokes replaced BTW 😅 Another downside are the QR-skewers, the lever bends easily with the clamping force I need on my bike to avoid the hub to slip out of the dropouts under heavy load.

[@robertwhyte3435]

I have a set of Aero Wide plus 50-D Carbon Mine are full carbon disc and have been really good. They're still true after 4000 miles and have been pretty much through the wringer - some gravel, some hard hit potholes while racing downhill in rain with the potholes filled with water. The ones I have are $1100 dollars and I ordered bearings the ratchet tool and ratchet parts because I expected parts to be hard to find. Obviously I can't vouch for their rim brake wheels but mine have been great. That said, I appreciate you being willing to both be critical and pin scribe's response. Good work.

[@Mapdec]

Thanks for the comment Robert.

[@GNX157]

Just as an aside unrelated, but I recall whenever I watched Alberto Contador begin a climb many times he could be seen reaching down and opening up the brake caliper release lever to gain pad clearance so his rims wouldn’t rub on the pads during his climb as he was a predominately out of the saddle climber.

[@Mapdec]

I never knew that. Did he ride Campagnolo Shamals?

[@GNX157]

@@Mapdec I don’t know for sure, but probably goes back to his early days of riding ultra light climbing wheels and since he is one of a few climbers who ride mostly out of the saddle, he probably put the rims thru a lot of side to side stresses that made them flex and rub. Him, Chris Horner, and maybe a half dozen other riders who can make climbing out of the saddle for extended periods efficient.

[@harrypemberton4627]

Completed PCR 2022 (2500km) on Scribe Duty D's with a pretty well loaded bike (I'm 88kg). They served me very well.

[@Hermod_Hermit]

Got 2 pairs of those. Love them. Too bad they are no longer in production.

[@kevinosborne1083]

Well with over 55 years of riding and building bikes i have learnt more in the last couple of years or so from yourself and the 5 year old engineering maestro ,just to add i have 3 sets of scribe wheels and all have the issue you are showing both the disc and rim brake versions. That said they are on the whole good wheels but need a little TLC dependent on usage. Keep up the content it is informative and most of all enjoyable!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you Kevin. How did you end up with 3 sets?

[@Paddystyx]

I nearly went with them but seen a few reviews that I thought was a bit suspicious so I went with Parcours instead. I do like to try an support the smaller companies as opposed to the big brands.

[@draugmithrin]

My £99 Fulcrum Racing Sport Clincher Wheelset bought in 2019 is still working perfectly despite all the abuse it's had, spoke tension spot-on out of the box. Got a nice hub from Japan I need to build up, just got to stop being lazy and work out what length spokes I need.

[@Mapdec]

Fulcrum make some good budget wheels.

[@draugmithrin]

Update: The freehub died, not well sealed and a pain to service, will repair with fresh 1/8th bearings. Now using Fulcrum Racing 900 wheelset (£75 from Planet X), the better sealed freehub is easy to remove for inspection/cleaning/regrease, less to go wrong with just 6001 sealed bearings and no loose 1/8th bearings. Update: Got another pair for £59.99 due to extra 20% code.

[@Mapdec]

@@draugmithrin amazing price Xerp

[@KD_cycling]

Interesting. I've just upgraded from a pair of carbon Scribe wheels (disc, 40mm deep). Didn't have these issues. Different lacing pattern, and the fancy spokes. I did have problems with the spokes rubbing together and creaking (some grease where the spokes cross helped) and the free hub is insanely noisy. My riding partners said it sounded like descending behind a circular saw. Can't beat the price though!

[@Mapdec]

I have come across that. I can almost guarantee it’s axle and bearings. Try the next fit up in hub bearing, and check the axle for uneven wear. Ie. If bearing is 6903 try a 61903

[@stevie866]

I had exactly the same problem .Got the wheels checked at my LBS and they said the spoke tension was fine .Greased the spokes and it got rid of the creaking.Other than that no problems

[@Julie-AnneCornelius]

Very interesting, thanks. I have a set of Hunt Superdura’s that the rear rim has developed cracks around the spoke nipples. Hunt have replaced it but from what I’ve read online it’s a common issue. Any recommendations for rim brake aluminium road bike wheels would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the good work!

[@Mapdec]

For this use I would ask your LBS to build something

[@kpizzle1985]

I have a pair of Scribe 70mm wide+ with a strange issue. When the rear wheel is at a certain point there is a small amount of play but only when holding the rim at the 12 or 6 o'clock position. Was like it out of the box and there's enough play to cause some disc rub.

[@Mapdec]

Thanks Kionne. That sounds like an axle issue.

[@kpizzle1985]

​@@Mapdecquick follow-up. 10 months old and 18 spoke nipples have failed due to extreme spoke angles. Sent back to Scribe who offered to repair with brass nipples even though Pillar say these will break the spokes. Scribe are ignoring this safety advice, they haven't offered to replace the wheels and they refuse to refund.

[@Mapdec]

@@kpizzle1985 😡

[@larisonjohnson]

Loved this content! No worries about the focus, I’m here to learn. 🤓IMO, Price = Performance / Weight. 🧐If it’s cheap, high performance and light, it’s a unicorn…buyer beware!

[@Mapdec]

Thank you 🙏

[@BikeLife154]

Sadly, that is far from true!

[@catalinmarculescu2866]

I have a set of Scribe Race wheels ( rim brake version) and also a set of Campagnolo zonda ( same as Fulcrum Racing 3) and a set of Fulcrum Racing Zero. My Scribe Race whees came with sapim cx ray spokes (they said that they have a supply issue with pillar ones). Regarding stifness they are like the zonda ones ( on the rear) and netter on the front wheel (due to more spokes I think). The fulcrum racing zero are in another league in terms of stiffness. But, interestingly, the scribe ones are very fast... Not a single difference compared with racing zero ( which uses ceramic bearings) and they are faster than Campagnolo Zonda.

[@Mapdec]

Those Racing Zeros are utterly superb. The hubs are a masterpiece. So accurately made, so smooth.

[@PeakTorque]

Unfortunately I think you've made a few wrong decisions/assumptions here. 1. Only having 7 NDS spokes is not such a bad idea...as if you have any more the NDS spoke tensions would be dangerously low. NDS tension is already dangerously low on this side on 135mm 11sp hubs. 2. I wouldn't have put a stiffer spoke on the NDS, as they'll tend to come loose easier as they have less total stretch than a thin gauge spoke. This is up for debate in wheel building but i tend to use a thinner gauge spoke (for more stretch) where the spoke tensions are lower. Just like in engineering where you don't want bolts to come loose, you use longer bolts 😉

[@Mapdec]

Other brands that use 7 are using much thicker spokes. Take a look at the Fulcrum Zero and the Visions. As you go down their range they will use 9, mostly taking inspiration from them. Those Pillar spokes stretch like crazy. They all came out different lengths. The tension on NDS is same as before reading 26 on TM1,

[@Mapdec]

Should probably add that NDS was far from dangerously low, DS more like dangerously high over the rating for a wing 20 in the untouched wheel from Scribe. Let’s see what happens in testing.

[@adamhoare2854]

Like your video….. too marks👍, I have a set of scribe wheels, I bought them for winter training wheels and I found them garbage, they flex too much and I have to run my rear callipers all the way open. I’m quite interested how stiff the test wheel is if you can sure the feed back. Cheers

[@Mapdec]

I’m seeing the owner this week for an update.

[@Mlinko6]

Hi, I was wondering, which aluminium rim brake wheel set would you recommend - I has to be at around 1500g (or lighter) and stiff, my system weigt is under 80kg's. Thank you!

[@Mapdec]

Get a shop to custom build something onto some Mavic open Pros

[@PanaehaliTut]

To be fair Pillar makes a great spokes too. I use their Wing 20 spokes everywhere. For both road bikes and MTB. And never had any problems.

[@Mapdec]

My jury is still out. They do stretch and the diamond shape makes it hard to get a consistent read on tension. I’m not ready to put them in the tried, tested, trusted box yet.

[@janeblogs324]

@@Mapdec interesting

[@olekmehera7256]

That wheel is now SOOOOOOO STIFF ;) stiffer than the shaft cyclingtips staff got recently well played sir

[@Mapdec]

I had a Cove Stiffeee once

[@unairamos74]

How do these wheels compare against say a pair of Mavic Cosmic Elite? I'm curious

[@Mapdec]

Mavic are full of proprietary parts, if you’re ok with that, they are good wheels. Just expect expensive and awkward servicing.

[@RDTanZ]

+1 on the poor experience with the same Pillar spokes. I am a 100kg rider. Plus the Pilar alloy nipples are terrible, with a few shearing off after 3 seasons, in spite of spokes being the correct lengths and tensions. Too bad, otherwise nice wheels with Ultegra hubs and H Plus Son Archetype rims.

[@Mapdec]

Sorry it’s a bit out of focus. We missed the opportunity to retake and felt this was still content worth sharing.

[@janeblogs324]

I don't even care about the focus but I can't hear jack. Your content loudness is -22.4 dB (stats for nerds). About 20 lower than yt recommend

[@Mapdec]

Thanks for feedback. I normally just loudness normalise to -14 Lufs. Seems ok on my phone. How did you measure this as a viewer?

[@janeblogs324]

@@Mapdec on my TV, 2.1 sound system. Can't hear you, turn it up, ad plays, scares my dog out of the room. Phones are all treble, great for voices but I could never go back to watching KZbin on a 6" screen, plus the phone app sucks compared to the TV version

[@janeblogs324]

Oh, to measure it, on android I hit the three dots, click stats for nerds. On PC you right mouse the video and click stats. You can obviously compare against any other video. If your video is all talking just hit the compressor button. Levels out lows and highs so its consistent and like radio, but dB still has to be spot on.

[@meneldil7604]

cant say i have ever have volume problem on any of your content

[@paulsymons562]

This kind of rubbish is why I taught myself to build my own wheels. I tend to use DT spokes and rims and Hope, Shimano or recently some Bitex 106 hubs. The beauty of this is I can really tailor things, like using 28x2cross front and 32x3cross rear for my 100kg weight, or a lower count lighter build for my skinny as a rake son. My winter wheels with DT r460db rims, DT comp spokes, brass nipples and Bitex 106s might look low key, but they have been totally reliable over 5000 miles.

[@nomadcarpenter8549]

My mavic allroad wheels rattle like hell to the point I dont ride them any more. On the other hand my bontrager pro 3 are the best set of wheels I've ever had.

[@harryrowland4734]

Did anyone check the clearance between the chainstays? This is a common issue when fitting the newer wider rims onto some older bikes. Rider weight limits are also far too high with most wheel suppliers.

[@Mapdec]

Yes. Bike is a pretty modern Ridley. Top suggestion though Harry.

[@GNX157]

9:19 Driveside, Driveside lol

[@rodcosta2345]

Wish I had seen this video before I got mine… 😞

[@Mapdec]

Sorry

[@rodcosta2345]

@@Mapdec No worries, cheers!

[@dieserbenutzernameistvielzulan]

Of course the flat spoke will bend easier than the flat spoke. the spokes only task is to pull not to bend. so the only dimension that matters is the cross section as long as both are made of steel and the pattern remains.

[@Mapdec]

You got it.

Ran 5000km on Scribe Races without any issue and im over 80kg. Much lighter and faster then OEM wheels i had before.

Then again, the ICAN Alpha Pro 55's i replaced them with are much faster...

[@simonb6058]

Good shout out for the 'dodgy' advertising. Buyers shouldn't have to be switched on to these practices. As an ex professional wheel builder I'm going to advise the handbuilt route. You'll get a great set of custom wheels for £500 that will perform and be reliable, a concept that is forgotten these days. My everyday wheels are DT Swiss R460, Comp spokes on Ultegra hubs. Similar to another post below. I just want stuff that works these days!

[@Mapdec]

Hell yeah.

[@kidkarbon4775]

Good wheels ain't cheap, cheap wheels ain't good. It's not by coincidence that highly regarded independent wheel builders are not selecting the rims, spokes, bearings and hubs used by the likes of Scribe, Hunt and other similar Facebook wheel brands for the builds that they put their name and reputation to

[@Mapdec]

Yes. Very true. When we spend time on wheel builds we stick to tried, tested, trusted.

[@imrevadasz1086]

The pen wasn't working 😂

[@StarAD]

I never do my wheels with tire pressure. If you do it with pressure you don’t count for a sudden tire blow. All pressure suddenly rises out of manufacturing specs and spokes can brake and bent the rims.

[@Mapdec]

Less of a risk than spokes coming loose from under tension.

[@StarAD]

Try to over inflate a wheel till it blows with over tightened spokes. It’s almost certain a wheel beyond repair. Even without broken spokes. That’s what my experience tells me. Seen many cases in my bike shop. Another thing is never do a wheel with topped tension. It’s more difficult to work so I do it with lower tension and once the wheel is straight and equalised I rise the tensions not the other way around.

[@Mapdec]

Don’t over inflate wheels 🤷‍♂️

[@StarAD]

That was only for you to see the result of a tire blow with over tightened spokes.

[@Mapdec]

Ok, well. Build a modern tubeless alu wheel as you would. Then inflate and recheck your tensions. Let me know how you get on.

[@DeanPattrick]

If it is to good to be true, it typically is...... 🙌😎🇫🇮

[@Mapdec]

From Finland?

[@DeanPattrick]

@@Mapdec yeah I live in Finland 😎

[@Mapdec]

Such a cool country. Amazing wilderness.

[@DeanPattrick]

@@Mapdec it's fantastic for all the sports, cycle, gravel, trail running, SwimRun 😎

[@Mapdec]

I did some adventure racing there once. It was epic.

[@danc1829]

I've always said this it's the reason I use shamals and bora's they're a little heavier but it's for a reason they don't use spokes built from cheese 🙈

[@Mapdec]

Love the Bora. Shamal… I think they need an update.

[@danc1829]

@@Mapdec Yeah I'm on rim brakes didn't buy into the disc hype but that's another story 🙈 would be nice if they where a little wider to fit a 28mm tyre nicely as internal is only 17mm

[@peterdieleman303]

Tubelesss zonda rim brake pls

[@EhlersMark]

Are you really putting the wheel on the floor to de-stress it? I believe there's a much better method to use for that.

[@Mapdec]

Go on.

[@ondmedai5417]

How does this repair make any sense financially?

[@Mapdec]

It’s a good question

[@deanokeano6386]

Cheap, light, robust, you only get to pick two

[@kpizzle1985]

Unless you buy Light Bicycle, then you can have all 3

[@victorrodriguez2806]

Fulcrum = Campagnolo.

[@Mapdec]

C$ = F$²

[@victorrodriguez2806]

@@Mapdec I don't know what it is about your presentations..... but you've got me hooked. Even your algebra humors me!!

[@germanhugger41]

Both Scribe and Hunt are fake wheel companies than use Kinlin rims and Bitex and Juniper hubs and charge premium prices...

[@Mapdec]

Yes. Although I have never seen their hubs anywhere else.