Scuttling of the High Seas Fleet at Scapa Flow

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

At 3:25 I say that Germany passed a naval bill in 1808. The bill was dated 1908. I apologize for the error.

[@stevemac6707]

Godammit, not good enough. Where's me gun when I need it..... ^.^

[@iamthepeterman54]

Ha! Close enough for me

[@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647]

Well, thank you most don't mention the mistakes in the works maybe later keep us well versed in history.

[@eckertandrew6]

Imagine Napoleon's surprise at the German's dreadnoughts...

[@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647]

@@eckertandrew6, He would reply in french G D it

[@kevinbarry71]

Interesting footnote, when NASA was wanting to go to the moon, they used steel from some of these sunken ships. The reason was The steel was of high quality and as it was manufactured before the first atomic bomb explosion it was not contaminated with radioactive elements. This was necessary due to the sensitivity of some instruments being manufactured

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

Yes, the High Seas fleet is the world's primary source of low-background steel.

[@patsyroberts3967]

Thank you, I was not sure if I had read about that years ago, or not!

[@malcolmbacchus866]

I know it was used in the Voyager spacecraft. Is there anything which shows it was used in Apollo programme?

[@malcolmbacchus866]

@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Does it remain so? If so surely it must be re-recycled steel because there haven't been any savage operations for years. (I was up there for the Battle of Jutland centenary in 2016 having had relatives that took part in the battle (HMS Malaysia).)

[@vespelian5769]

I've often wondered about the vericty of that as surely new mined ore from the depths of the earth would be a much better bet.

[@ronkluwe4875]

My grandfather was a Chief Petty Officer in the Imperial German Navy during WWI and was part of the crew who scuttled his ship at Scapa Flow. One of his last duties was to remove the Imperial German Navy flag from the jackstaff at the stern of the ship prior to leaving the ship. We still have that flag and I feel honored to have such a piece of history. My grandfather was put into an internment camp and upon his release and repatriation to Germany was awarded an Iron Cross for his actions.

[@hashteraksgage3281]

That's so cool. Was he in one of the dreadnoughts? Do you know the name by any chance.

[@ronkluwe4875]

@@hashteraksgage3281I believe he was on one of the cruisers and do not know name of the ship.

[@IMBlakeley]

I dived the remnants of the fleet in June 2005 with my daughter, the battle ships are still impressive when you see the size of the guns embedded into the bottom since they upturned when sinking.

[@dougjb7848]

Ohhhhh jealous.

[@patrickmonaghan8555]

I had the great privilege of diving the High Seas Fleet in 2017. This was a lifelong dream of mine ever since my professor and friend gave lecture on this during a Modern European History Class. I was in my early 20's then. Over thirty years later I was able to touch history. This was great episode! Thank you for posting this!!

[@twoheart7813]

More facts about WWI I didn't know but now I do thanks to The History Guy.

[@Larpy1933]

I’d never heard about the German sailors and soldiers mutinying and the repercussions of the mutinies. Thanks. Well done!

[@deannilvalli6579]

It is taught as a major event in German schools.

[@graemehighlander9237]

The last ride of the High Seas Fleet would have been suicide …the Grand Fleet was far far far stronger in 1918 and the problem with the fuses had been sorted, thereby it truly would have been suicidal and at the time of the proposed battle, the USN had joined the party (ok they had to be taught how to actually shoot on seas that were not like a mill pond lol) and for folks stateside the last Dreadnought still around can still be visited (USS Texas), the only ship surviving of the Grand Fleet is the HMS Caroline (a light cruiser, and she was at Jutland). Also be aware that the High Seas fleet should really be the High Sea fleet …truly it was not meant to go to more than the North Sea, hence the poor accommodation on the German ships compared to the RN ships. You may also to be interested that the Captain of the Markgraf is buried in Lyness. His ship along with two other König class still lie in the flow. The Großer Kurfürst being the only one raised (1938). There is also more than just the Capital ships left (well documented which ones, and they are not intact as parts have been salvaged both legally and illegally, they are all protected now, they are not War Graves! There are War Graves …two, and probably should be three… HMS Royal Oak being the most famous (and intact) HMS Vanguard (both of whom were at Jutland incidentally) and the arguably last U boat to be sunk in WWI UB116, it was sunk with all hands, there is not much left of it as it was salvaged (or attempted to be so) and the RN blew it to bits in the 70’s if memory serves, probably because it had live torpedos still onboard, there are many myths surrounding it and also the Vanguard (she blew up too …1917…up to folks if they believe or not), the sub was sunk by a shore controlled mine on Flotta, and even then it was more or less a futile effort as the Grand Fleet wasn’t in the Flow it was at that time in Roysth, German naval intel in WWI was not the best so to speak. The Graves of the German sailors killed in the Grand Scuttle are in Lyness, as is the one that was murdered (his grave marker was changed to show his date of death as originally it showed the scuttle date), records as to the trial of said can be seen as can the press reports online. There are also the graves of the men who were not buried at sea from Jutland and whose families did not want them returned as such ( there are 38 from the HMS Barham (yes she was sunk in WWII) and the HMS Malaya). Obviously the Flow is connected to Lord Kitchener but that War Grave is not in the Flow, the Hampshire did leave the Flow that night (all be it Jellicoe did advise against it) but her resting place is of the West of the main island. I would highly recommend anyone read Dr Innes McCartney’s excellent book called Scapa 1919 if interested in what still remains in the flow. There is also a salvaged Gun outside the museum that came of the SMS Bremse (she wasn’t at Jutland) however I think the deck gun of the B98 is also viewable (it was at Jutland), the Bremse was salvaged in the Flow and if memory serves was scrapped in Lyness (I think she proved a tad awkward) the B98 wasn’t she went aground I’m sure of one of the Northern Isles (Sanday) and bits of her they either didn’t want or just left are still lying on the beach, I think. Sorry for long rant just a bit more background as there are so many myths that surround the High Seas Fleet and the Grand Fleet/Jutland much of which isn’t quite true …. This vid was surprisingly accurate tho

[@navyreviewer]

Foch in July 1919: "This (Versailles) isnt peace. This is a 20 years cease fire." He off by a month and a half.

[@sfs2040]

Ironically because he thought the treaty wasn't harsh enough.

[@JESL_TheOnlyOne]

@@sfs2040 It wasn't. Nor should it have been. It was the worst agreement possible: punitive enough to cause deep, deep resentment; not harsh enough to hamstring a rearmament. See V. D. Hanson. The single worst mistake was treating a defeated and prostate foe as an existential enemy. Wilhelmine Germany was nothing of the kind. If they hadn't been myopic (helped along by Woodrow Wilson, Prize Idiot, Liar and All Around Insufferable Ass), they would've taken a lesson from Lincoln and Grant. They should've realized the real threat was Russia and a nascent USSR, not a Germany which probably would've helped them to establish a just and lasting peace. Hindsight's 20/20 and Foch was the single most prescient person in history.

[@dougjb7848]

@@JESL_TheOnlyOne Ironically (tragically) by the late 20s the western allies had come to regard Germany as a useful check-block on potential Soviet expansion into Europe, and so had even less inclination to monitor Germany’s compliance with the treaty. When Germany regained the Ruhr, those factories were able to switch to large scale military production very quickly.

[@MrTumshie]

One of the most fascinating episodes you 've done in a while, which is no mean praise given the generally high standards of the channel. I first heard of this event as a wee boy here in Scotland and always meant to look into it but never seemed to find the time. I doubt reading about it in history books of the time would have been even half as interesting though so I'm glad I waited! Thank you.

[@woppi73]

ooh, i sent this in as a recommended topic for the 100th anniversary. i expected THG would do a spectacular video. not disappointed. well worth the wait !

[@brunoethier896]

Another point to know is that those ships steel is really precious in making radiation detrctors, since everything mined since 1945 have a little bit of radioactive isotopes from nuclear bombs, rendering them less precise. This also applies to any coal used to smelt new ore. Those ships are therefore the best source of low-radiation iron.

[@richardcutts196]

They can make new low radiation steel, but the price is much higher than salvaging old wrecks. That's why some WW2 wrecks have disappeared in SE Asian waters.

[@vicguy01]

My maternal grandfather served aboard the battlecruiser Moltke. He was injured when the ship was torpedoed. He was sent to the front after recovering from his injuries. He said that they starving to death at the front near the end of the war. One day a horse and cart showed up and a guy dumped some turnips out on the ground. The turnips had worms in them. He said that they ate them anyways because it was better than starving. He never had a good thing to say about submarines for the rest of his life!

[@edschermerhorn5415]

Fascinating presentation showing how so many things weave together

[@MrLoobu]

I always wondered from the moment I heard this as factoid of the war how exactly it happened. Thanks for covering it.

[@tonyk1584]

All those sunken ships and not even one pirate involved.

[@danoneill2846]

The Mutiny is a lot like Pirates they clearly show BY FAR the best Leadership of ALL sides

[@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647]

Arrgh, you right

[@anti-Russia-sigma]

That is fantastic news!

[@flagmichael]

With a location named Scapa Flow there simply _must_ be pirates!

[@kayellee7202]

They wuz all pirates at heart ☠

[@cliffstevenson5773]

Great episode.

[@donalddodson7365]

Great bit of history left out of my history lessons. Thank you THG Team.

[@acm_1985]

Again, many thanks for this history lesson. This 15 Minutes teached me more of the end of the "Hochseeflotte" and the both military and political circumstances around it, as my complete school career was able to. I think the scuttling was the best way to end the situation, and I feel proud for the men involved.

[@matthewwillis4892]

Even though he was German, have you heard of Count Felix Luckner "The Sea Devil" is a great story of adventure. Not many people Know of this history. I always thought it would make a great movie. You could do a great job with this story. I very much enjoy your presentations.

[@glennloafmann6443]

Once again, a moment of history not so much "forgotten" as overlooked altogether. Fascinating story, helping me develop a more complete picture and understanding of the situations and events of WWI. Thank you.

[@WASRGP]

I am greatly astonished by the insanely high number of comments stating 'I never knew this" or somewhere along those lines.. Support and love from Michigan Brother Historian! 🖤👊🏼🤘🏼✌🏼🇺🇲

[@janetgrahamtheberge4772]

Fascinating story! I’m a history buff, but had never come across this story, one of MANY I was unfamiliar with that you have brought to my attention. I have to tell you how VERY MUCH I appreciate your videos, and I want to send you personally a heartfelt thank you!

[@JavierCR25]

This is exactly the type of vid that got me hooked on this channel

[@jbrhel]

Thank you HG! I've been waiting to hear you say "Paragraph eleven, confirm" for years.

[@JZ-mn8wv]

Here’s an episode- “Behind the History Guy (Literally)” where you give the stories behind all the stuff on your wall.

[@41hijinx22]

I can't help but think that if Bismarck were still around he would never have tried to challenge the British navy.

[@TheHistoryGuyChannel]

There is a strong argument there.

[@Idahoguy10157]

Bismark was a realist. The new Kaiser was not

[@tankerd1847]

Probably not, Wilhelm II went out of his way to distance himself from Bismarck at the start of his reign and pretty much did the opposite of what Bismarck thought was best. Wilhelm II envied the British Navy his entire life being the grandson of Queen Victoria and his push to try and make Germany a naval power and the subsequent naval arms race with Britain contributed to the outbreak of WWI. If the Kaiser's father had lived long enough to properly reign and Bismarck subsequently stayed at the forefront of German politics for longer, WWI might not have ever happened and Germany might still be a monarchy today. But that's not to say history couldn't have taken an even worse turn as well, because there were a lot more contributing factors to the madness of the front half of the 20th century than just an overly-ambitious Kaiser.

[@41hijinx22]

Wilhelm was disliked by his own generals especially Ludendorff. The Kaiser was a meddler who forbade his admirals from confronting the British fleet .He envied the British navy longing for a "place in the sun." He finally got his place the the sun in the Netherlands.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

Actualy he apointed a General (von Caprivi) as Secretary of the Navy. Just to make sure that no one got dumb ideas.

[@Yogasefski]

I guess that we to start calling the harbor, Scrappa Flow.

[@steveperreira5850]

Good one!

[@steveperreira5850]

JZ's Best Friend : That is in the Guadalcanal area, I think that Sobe Season , not sure I got that right, It’s where the Japanese kicked our ass in a night battle, they were much more disciplined and capable, and much better lead. The Americans had a slight gunfire advantage and sunk zero Japanese ships. The Americans also had the advantage of radar. The Japanese sunk four of five American and allied cruisers and a couple of destroyers. It was the greatest Japanese victory of the war regarding surface ship battle.

[@edkrach8891]

😂

[@MrJonathandcrow]

Thanks

[@SilvesterHumaj]

Excellent episode

[@rynohorn3819]

I never heard about this before. As a Navy veteran of the U.S.A. I thank you for sharing this.

[@barrydysert2974]

i have been wanting this. Thank you History Guy!:-) 🖖

[@americanpatriot2422]

Outstanding video and presentation

[@irvingsteinberg]

SMS Derflingger, the old iron dog, was the last capital ship to be salvaged at Scapa in 1939 but spent WW2 upside down in her salvage cradle until 1946 when she could finally be moved and scrapped. Her upturned hulk showed up in German Luftwaffe recon photos of Scapa Flow in late 1939. One can only imagine if the sight of this once mighty German Imperial Battlecruiser, keel up, the last of a much more vast navy from the previous futile struggle, gave pause to the younger German generation now at war again.

[@petergray7576]

What made it ironic is that all of Germany's WW2 capital ships- both battleships and cruisers- were mostly retreaded WW1 designs. Germany was even more unprepared for a naval arms race in the 1930s, and simply reused existing naval blueprints in full or in part to jumpstart naval construction.

[@AN-nt3uv]

@@petergray7576 And what about the new development between the wars by the democratic Weimar Republic government coming up with the design of the Westentaschenkreuzer to obey Versaille treaty limitations? I am not sure, whether your statement is fully true. A lot of weapon development was secretly continued during this Weimar era tricking on the treaty, regardless of political party being at the government steering wheel.

[@wheels-n-tires1846]

@@AN-nt3uv @peter gray is correct... While there was some innovative ideas like the Deutschlands, the larger ships were all rehashes of previous designs. The Bismarcks were a quickie redesign of the WWI Baden/Bayern. Their dated designs, and lack of contemporary thinking are made more obvious by having separate secondary and high angle (AA) batteries...

[@AN-nt3uv]

@@wheels-n-tires1846 As far as i know, only the arrangment of the batteries and the three shaft propeller system was similar or adopted, but that does not make a full battleship yet. What caused headaches for the designers was the initial idea to have them mainly fight in local coastal area like the North Sea, but the first mission was then convoy raids. Anyway, i am not a highest level expert on this.

[@lawrencelewis2592]

I have a nice model of the Derflingger on a shelf right behind me as well as the Koenig, Goeben and Seydlitz. 1/250 scale, made of paper.

[@markchip1]

The port and the mutiny are pronounced "keel" rather than "Kyle", for future reference! Good analysis anyway!!

[@nedludd7622]

It is often difficult to understand his pronunciation, especially of proper nouns. That could be corrected if he tried.

[@tommihommi1]

Kiel also literally means keel, so it should be easy to remember.

[@tygrkhat4087]

The easiest way I found to remember how 'ie' and 'ei' in German are in the words Bier and Wein. Both are pronounced the same way as in English.

[@nedludd7622]

@@tommihommi1 Years ago I was traveling from Paris to Munich by train. I met a young American and we talked. He was looking forward to arriving at the sea. I asked him where he was going. He showed me his ticket Paris-Kehl. I guess the Paris agent misconstrued his request. He thought he was on the train to Kiel and found himself 100's of kilometers away.

[@tommihommi1]

@@nedludd7622 now the question is why the fuck you'd want to go to Kiel from paris instead of taking a train to literally anywhere else on the German coast or just getting out in Hamburg. And I say that as someone from Kiel :D

[@johnjephcote7636]

My late father was based at Scapa in the RAF during the last German war but between the wars he saw, while crossing the Forth, the Bayern (I think) upside down being towed to a site for scrapping. A very good resumé!

[@stevedietrich8936]

Good morning THG Kiel is pronounced keel, with long e sound

[@termeownator]

Jaws?

[@eggsngritstn]

Additionally 'Baden' is pronounced BAH-den.

[@mikepette4422]

yep 2 kinda bad mispronunciations

[@misterflibble6601]

@@mikepette4422 Kinda bad that there's so many commenters piling in THG's mispronunciation, Is that the ONLY thing you got out of the video?

[@djmech3871]

It hurt my Ears when THG said Kiel and Baden. 🤣

[@davidhumberger5078]

Love this episode! Great way to start the day 😎❤️⚓️🚢

[@frankgulla2335]

Nicely done, sir. You do have a way with words and tell a great tale. Thank you.

[@columbus7950]

My grandfather was on a RN ship at Scapa Flow when this happened.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

My Grand Grand Father was on a U-Boat.

[@doccyclopz]

@@comentedonakeyboard let the pissing contest begin.

[@comentedonakeyboard]

@@doccyclopz OK i'll drink some Coffee in preparation 🧐

[@sunnyjim1355]

My grandfather was on the beach enjoying the show eating pickled welks (didn't have popcorn then).

[@HingerlAlois]

The scuttling of the French fleet in Toulon in November 1942 might also be worth a video.

[@oilersridersbluejays]

Agreed. Good one!

[@dougjb7848]

Or the RN destroying the fleet at Mers el Kebir, or the US and RN silencing Jean Bart at Casablanca, or the entirely different treatment and later career of Richelieu.

[@davidcox4544]

Great video!! Your videos are informational and enjoyable to watch! Thank you sir and keep up the good work!

[@barryaulis1104]

Another great video of history that deserves to be remembered.

[@BHuang92]

Fun Fact: The sunken ships at Scapa Flow are still subjected to metal salvaging for the manufacturering of Gieger counters as the steel was made prior before nuclear testing and it is not contaminated by radiation fallout.

[@garygriffiths2911]

How very 'ungerman' of the Kaiser's crews in refusing to sacrifice themselves in battle against what was by 1918 a vastly superior Allied Grand Fleet - it is often stated that this proposed end of war operation was also intended by the officer class to save the 'honour' of the German Navy. This consideration seems not to have much impressed those on the lower decks however! Contrast that with the situation in 1945 when Hitler's navy would fight to the bitter end for all the good it did them. By the way I believe that salvaged steel from this sunken fleet is of special scientific value today because it was underwater long before the planet's atmosphere was trained with the aftereffects of nuclear explosions in the 1940's.

[@dhotnessmcawesome9747]

It's already used often for that reason. Good thinking though if you came to that independently.

[@alexanderstrickland9036]

The steel was very important for making certain medical and industrial equipment. That kind of salvage work for the preatomic steel still happens but is much less necessary than it was in the 50s-90s. We can produce new isotope free steel now.

[@columbus7950]

They use it to make whole body monitors amongst other things.

[@dennisriblett4622]

Because water stops atomic particles....

[@Markle2k]

@@dennisriblett4622 The radionuclides cannot get *into* the steel that is recycled. Newly produced steel does, or did, get contaminated.

[@mikehadlow399]

Another fascinating video. Thanks History Guy!

[@ronriesinger7755]

Historically, a terrible loss. To have even one of those battleships to explore in its original state today would be a treasure.

[@untruelie2640]

They probably would've been sunk or scrapped anyway. Very few Pre-WW2 warships were preserved. The only remaining Pre-Dreadnaught Battleship is the japanese "Mikasa", the Flagship of Admiral Togo at the Battle of Tsushima. The only WW1-era battleship left is the USS Texas. The most painful loss however was the former SMS Goeben (a german battlecruiser) which had been given to the Ottoman Navy in 1914 and served in the Turkish Navy until 1954 (!) This ship began its career in the German Imperial Navy and ended it as a NATO ship. Truly amazing. It was proposed in the 1970s that Germany should buy the ship back and preserve it, but sadly the german government refused to put up the money, so it was scrapped in 1974.

[@wheels-n-tires1846]

@@untruelie2640 Agreed.... To know that she still survived during my lifetime, only to still be lost is horrible!!!

[@gerryswift6888]

What a wonderful story.Thanks so much from an amateur historian.

[@turnerdan53]

Another great Video

[@billd.iniowa2263]

Thankyou for a fascinating lesson!

[@ninehundreddollarluxuryyac5958]

Your intro videos have become very impressive! Thanks for another bit of history.

[@vespelian5769]

Two of my great grandfathers served in that fleet at Jutland. One of them died. The High Seas Fleet achieved some significant things, managing to antagonise the British Empire into war against it, lose an arms race, running away at the Skagerac battle due to lack of numbers, causing a revolution toppling the regime that created it and committing suicide, which is quite a catalogue really. Its only real contribution to Germany's war effort, was Operation Albion and the crushing of Russia out of the Great War, which was the most successful amphibious operation of the war.

[@briangarrow448]

Speaking of the British Naval Treaty, I still enjoy watching the 1983 British television series, Reilly- Ace of Spies, which is based during the years surrounding WW1. Sam Neill and Norman Rodway star in this 1983 production based on a book by Robin Bruce Lockhart. It is a lovely period drama/adventure about a nominally British spy and his escapades during this amazing time period. I believe you can find it here on KZbin. Now that I have thoroughly interrupted your thought processes, you may continue to enjoying yourself here.

[@dedrakuhn6103]

Another great video from THG!

[@dpm-jt8rj]

I feel like I should have a B.A. in history, if not an M.A. or even a Ph.D. from watching your videos. You are a very good educator and/or teacher.

[@crystallittlepage2246]

Sir Charles Algernon Parsons who invented a turbine engine and generator went to great lengths for getting his creation noticed by the Royal Navy. Parsons installed a steam turbine power plant in his personal yacht the Turbinia, and raced it ahead of a Royal Navy review for Queen Victoria's diamond jubilee at Portsmouth. If I remember correctly he was almost jailed for the stunt but it got the Royal Navy to take notice of his invention and how useful it might be. Another interesting thing about ships of that era in Great Britain there was what was called the battle of the boilers, that a lot of the ships in the Royal Navy had various steam plants like Belleville, Niclausse, Yarrow and, various others .

[@christopherqua6049]

Great video, thanks for creating so much interesting content!

[@stevemac6707]

Excellent & informative video. They are always of the highest quality & well researched. Respect 👍

[@chrismccallion1862]

May I suggest a follow up on this. The ardent efforts William Cox took to salvage the fleet and raised quite a chunk of them.

[@johnwhitley2898]

I need to dig deeper!! I "had" the understanding the Scapa Flow scuttling was an already predetermined end. The short crews didn't agree, bla bla bla.... The reality was a mess, and no one really knew what to do, even with bringing in the Fleet... No game plan of any kind. Thanks again for your "real" history of what really happened. Clarified a piece of what I call "That Murky History" of the First War. Kudos 👍

[@bigsarge2085]

I always learn something, even about events I've studied!

[@irvingsteinberg]

Great topic and video. Bravo!

[@bcask61]

Amazing history that I was only vaguely aware of. Thanks THG, always interesting.

[@lycossurfer8851]

Drach lost the mustache & gained a bow tie it seems......and it ain't even Wednesday yet

[@darrellsmith4204]

My god.. could you imagine a THG & Drach chat? I'd stay up all night watching..

[@jeffbybee5207]

Rather completely different people

[@dougjb7848]

@@jeffbybee5207 No, obviously this episode was produced by a well-disguised Drach.

[@korbell1089]

THG:"battle of Jutland had been indecisive." Admiral Beatty:" There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!" I have always considered the scuttling as a big FU. Where they may have been beaten but still had their dignity.

[@sfs2040]

Beaty screwed the pooch but Jellico whooped Sheer pretty darn hard

[@alecblunden8615]

If there was an indecisive element, it flowed from Beattys poor gunnery training and disregard of the ammunition handing procedures of the Royal Navy throughout the battlecruiser squadron. Is I dignity to commit mass Hari Kiri because the CO panicked? I wouldn't have thought so. But the German Navy has a long tradition of thinking scuttling is honourable.

[@aviatorflighttraining]

Another great video!

[@eski152]

Nicely done. rare topic

[@clydecessna737]

The Salvage of the High Seas Fleet by Mr Cox and sons is also an epic event and is worth reading up on. There is footage of the SMS Hindenburg being wowed under the Firth of Fourth Bridge in 1938/9. Salvos playing cricket on the hull of the SMS Seydlitz (if I remember). Check it out.

[@johngermain3535]

Nice episode

[@wilfdarr]

I had no idea the political part: very interesting! Great video, as usual.

[@tflynn2400]

15 Admirals didn't want this history to be remembered.

[@crystallittlepage2246]

Another great episode as usual, I applaud you. I personally believe that the naval war in WWI would've been completely different, and less German ships would've been interred if Adm. Sir David Beatty had been in charge of the Grand fleet. Sir John Jellicoe the commander at the time of the Battle of Jutland, doubted and second guessed himself to much. He was too conservative and wanted to avoid battle. Beatty on the other hand was headstrong with iron nerve and would've fought his ships accordingly.

[@michaelevans205]

Hmmmm.....so the debate, Jellicoe vs Beatty continues! In fairness to Jellicoe the truth of Churchill's remark that Jellicoe was the only man on either side who could have lost the war in an afternoon should be recognised. All he had to do was to avoid defeat in order to win, whereas the Germans HAD to actually win. Beatty was as brave as a lion (see what I did there?) but his impetuous nature was, on occasion, very risky. When he became Commander in Chief of the Grand Fleet himself he made virtually no changes to Jellicoes meticulously written instructions, which indicates that he too understood that, as CinC, his responsibilities were rather different to those he had held as Commander of just the Battlecruiser Fleet.

[@crystallittlepage2246]

@@michaelevans205 being impetuous is not such a bad thing, but as admiral Ernest Trowbridge found out they refusing to fight even if you have the slightest chance could be a court-martial offense and be turned against you Trowbridge was never again entrusted with a command and was stuck to command the desk instead. Rear admiral Christopher Craddock said that he would not suffer the Fate that Trowbridge had so whenever he went after vice admiral von Spee at the Battle of Coronel in 1914 he went after a numerically and better trained Superior Force knowing that he would pay with his life. He went down with his ship the HMS Good Hope along with another cruiser the HMS Monmouth along with 1500 of sailors. People with impetuous natures sometimes get scathing remarks made of them because they knew better. But Beatty and Craddock believed that even if you lost your life in battle that could have been avoided the material losses that you could not replace on the Open Sea could actually work in your favor.He wasted ammunition that he could not replace and of course the coal that he used up trying to outrun Craddock so even though the admiral lost his life von Spee lost his life at the Battle of the Falkland Islands a month later. I'm not trying to start an argument Jellicoe was an able Commander but I still think he would have been better served if he had had a little bit more impetuousness in his character instead of being so conservative.

[@michaelevans205]

@@crystallittlepage2246 Heck, no argument.......just a lively discussion that's been going on for over 100 years! My point really is that Beatty as CinC Grand Fleet had different problems to consider than Beatty as Commander of the Battlecruiser Fleet. Jellicoe didn't want to avoid a fight, but he had to make sure he didn't lose once he was in one, (didn't John Wayne say something about being sure not to lose?) Jellicoe's deployment of the Grand Fleet at Jutland was masterful and tactically brilliant, and he did it despite the fact that he had almost no information as to the Germans whereabouts - information which it was Beatty's job to supply. The two men had immense respect for each other and the rivalry that existed between the two groups of supporters at the time was not reflected in the professional relationship between the men themselves. They were very different and, just my opinion, Jellicoe was undoubtedly the right man to command the Grand Fleet from the beginning of the war. There really was no other alternative thsn Beatty once Jellicoe was appointed to the Admiralty and he became the right man for the job. As for Troubridge.....oh dear. He made a very serious error in not engaging Goeben.......Commodore Harwood proved that a numerically superior but qualitatively inferior force coulf, in fact, successfully take on a single large opponent when he engaged the Graf Spee. Troubridge relied too much on the advice of his Flag Captain and was court martialled. Cradock was given a hopeless task by the Admiralty and knew it. But he also knew that the ultimate disgrace for a naval officer was to be seen to run away. The sad fact was that by court martialling Troubridge the Admiralty more or less forced Cradock into attacking von Spee for fear of being thought a coward.

[@crystallittlepage2246]

@@michaelevans205 point taken but even if Troubridge hadn't been court-martialed I still believe that Craddock would have attacked regardless because he was constitutionally incapable of refusing action. Craddock Once Said that he hoped his end would come by breaking his neck on the hunting field or dying in battle wish fulfilled. Not trying to take anything away from Jellicoe just saying that being impetuous is not such a bad thing. I would love to see the Craddock memorial in Yorkminster his hometown and the mural painted in his honor.

[@michaelevans205]

@@crystallittlepage2246 Thumbs up for that! The Admiralty had sent Cradock to do a difficult job with completely inadequate resources and I think you're right......Cradock would have fought no matter what, but it surely played on his mind that Troubridge had suffered for not showing sufficient 'offensive spirit' as the navy called aggression back then. Its a great pity nobody survived to give us an idea of Cradock's thinking as the Battle of Coronel unfolded but he definitely belonged to the Nelson school that stated that 'no Captain could do very wrong if he laid his ship alongside that of an enemy.' Christopher Cradock deserves to be recognised far more than he is.

[@redblinddog]

Your commentary is almost right out of the current book I am reading: "Naval Policy Between the Wars, Volume 1.

[@jefftackett4678]

New favorite channel

[@mauricedavis8261]

Always fascinating and enjoyable with HG enthusiasm!!! Scapa Flow, what a cool name!!!🙏👍😎

[@tyroberts2261]

Love the tie!

[@fghjjjk]

Dived on a few of these a few years ago. Read about gunter von preen and his u boat infiltration into the harbour. Amazing skills.

[@andyharman3022]

History Guy is always thought-provoking. I never heard the story of the German sailors mutiny that precipitated the end of the war, revolution, and the ousting of the Kaiser. Modern equivalent: The Canadian Truckers protest.

[@trishthehomesteader9873]

Thank you THG. 🙂

[@Varrivale]

Great video, it's a bit hard to believe that such incredibly expensive a modern weapons at the time remain at the bottom of the sea until today.

[@kristoffermangila]

There is still one remnant of the Hochseeflott still around. Its the admiral's barge from SMS Hindenburg, one of battlecruisers scuttled at Scapa Flow. Sold to private hands a few years after the scuttling by the Royal Navy, she gained fame during WW2 as one of the boats that participated in the Dunkirk evacuation (Operation Dynamo). Her name: Count Dracula.

[@hallstuart6604]

The intros are looking really slick!

[@nilo70]

Thank you

[@evensgrey]

Given what happened as a result, it's sometime difficult to remember that when WWI was first called "The War To End All Wars," people actually meant it seriously. Given that it's hard to find a war since that doesn't have some connection to the horrible process that was carried out at Versailles, today it's rarely not said ironically.

[@navyreviewer]

I dont think any professional diplomate was optimistic enough to call it the "the war to end all wars." As to your second point I agree. Maybe we should start calling it "the war to start all wars." Morbid but apt.

[@quillmaurer6563]

Thinking of that viewpoint, I wonder if "end all wars" was part of the Germans' decision to scuttle the fleet. Weary of war, they wanted lasting peace, end to war, and battleships, under anyone's possession, would be counter to that goal. Sinking such weapons of war was in the post-war - all war - best interest.

[@Onewheelordeal]

Can you imagine being a history collector with 80k in your pocket scrolling through eBay and you see that?

[@asdfjklol]

At 2:40, it should be the "the last decade of the 19th century", not the 20th.

[@Grnrvrklr]

It is also noteworthy to mention that some steel is still being recovered from sunken ships of Scapa flow for use in scientific equipment. As it is one of the only sources of steel untainted by radiation. As they sank before World War II.

[@earlyriser8998]

great insight into a significant event

[@joshklein7842]

Great story, great telling. As usual

[@danyarwood1432]

The war to end all wars! That’s a good one!!

[@chuckmartin935]

History guy-you are da man!

[@billlarrabee9436]

Amazing!

[@sftommy01]

von Reuter had already had a "good war" with the scouting forces.....the success of the scuttle ended up giving him a very deserving footnote in naval history.

[@Simirial]

Mr Roger's and the science guy, you the F1

[@MorristheMinor]

A small aside as a child, I listened to a BBC Radio Scotland interview with an elderly lady from Orkney. As a schoolgirl, she has been part of a school party which was touring Scapa Flow on pleasure boat on the day of the sinking. When the ships started going down, she and other children started cheering, thinking that this had been put on for their benefit! Needless to say, the adults on the boat panicked and tried to get everyone below deck.

[@paulhudson8321]

Very interesting part of history. I was aware of the scuttling and salvage but didn’t know about the history around it. There’s a good book on the salvage of those ships called “Jutland to junkyard” covers the salvage efforts of the battleships which most were raised and floated upside down and towed to port for scrapping.

[@tedberwick3186]

Ty

[@ImperialistRunningDo]

"The one great surface engagement, the Battle of Juteland [pronounced "YOOT land"] was indecisive." No. I watch your shows regularly. I am a big fan of yours. As a slave to Felis catus, I share your loss deeply. First off, read up on the WWI Battle of the Falkland, where a German Pacific squadron was destroyed by the Royal Navy. This was a decisive British victory. The Germans inflicted terrible losses on the Royal Navy at Juteland, but spent the rest of the war bottled up in harbor. Tactical victory went to Germany, strategic victory to the UK. Love your videos, hope to see more. "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today,” said Admiral David Beatty on 31 May 1916. My favorite line.

[@wrenchrad]

Absolutely correct, Brits failed in their goal of destroying German fleet but chased them back into harbor from which they never ventured out again in force. Strategic victory for Britain, no question, although costly. Jutland is the largest naval surface engagement, ever, in tonnage by far.

[@ImperialistRunningDo]

@@wrenchrad more than the Battle of Leyte Gulf? I will take your word for it, but ... dang.

[@shawnr771]

Thank you for the lesson.

[@salinagrrrl69]

I am so glad there was no 2nd Jutelandish engagement. FOR out there amoungst the Angelo-American fleet was my Granddad aboard the USS Delaware (the model namesake of her own class). I live.

[@Chrischi3TutorialLPs]

As some others probably pointed out, Kiel is pronounced like keel (Partly because the german word Kiel and the english word keel mean the same thing, though in this case, its actually named after the city of Kiel)