Seagull reacts to Overwatch 2's PVE monetization

[@ToothyBoi]

“At least they aren’t making me pay $15 per mission” is the lowest bar for a video game I’ve ever heard

[@Meteaura22]

I think "At least it doesn't run like Cyberpunk at launch" is the lowest bar.

[@benjaminasmus3980]

​​​​​@@Meteaura22least Cyberpunk had new content, they weren't just updating an old cyberpunk game. Those developers were making something new, Overwatch 2 they cut a decent portion of the old content and didn't have anything to replace it, so now instead of replacing it they just re-release old content to distract you from the nothing they have been giving you. And after a time, cyberpunk was fixed with patches and is a worthwhile game to play now. Overwatch 2 continues to do things that make me think I'm playing a diablo immortal, and is going in the opposite direction of being worthwhile.

[@chancefischer8751]

Only if I get to keep it after season 6 if I don't I am not spending 15 for something for one season

[@thebearded4427]

No theyre having you pay $15 for 3 of 1,5 hour gameplay......which were almost fully developed in 2019......with almost no change to existing heroes......or maps....... Sometimes im convinced Blizzard is going to jump out and say "Suprise! It was all a joke! Gottcha!"

[@ToothyBoi]

@@thebearded4427 i would love this to be an elaborate prank to make an interesting comeback story. Which would also double as one of the most questionable game dev/business decisions as i can't imagine that this era of the game has been very profitable. Personally, i am not reinstalling the game until i see talent trees and i can experience the whole story with a single purchase (like what was promised). I want to buy the game that was advertised in 2019 and 2021, not a knockoff of Destiny 2.

[@DarukaEon]

A singular skin costs more than a set of half-baked Archive missions + OW Coins + legendary Sojourn skin.

[@UndyingNero]

And the funny thing is you know this model has to still make a substantial amount of money for them which really shows how low those items actually cost to make.

[@darcidious99]

Don't forget, the pachimari weapon charm in game costed more than an IRL pachimari keychain/piece of merch

[@turkeyman631]

Yeah, and I'm still questioning whether or not it will be worth it. I honestly cant believe people spend 20$ on a singular skin, but to be fair I bought one in Fortnite way back when under the idea that 'I didnt buy this game, so spending 20$ is nothing!' Feel like that has to be the rationale people are using when buying these skins.

[@nailinthefashion]

It just says so much that they can make each mission less than 5 dollars if you include the other stuff in the bundle. But everything is that much more expensive in the shop just ... cuz ....

[@gooeyghoblini]

Do we know if they are half baked? Especially compared to regular archive missions these puppies have been in the oven for a while. That being said no one here knows the quality of them yet. If they are or aren't "half baked" give em a chance and stop being such a whiny pessimistic baby

[@davidzakrajsek2560]

I am done supporting anything Activison/Blizzard related not just Overwatch. I understand game development is hard, but it is wild how the monetization side of things is always perfectly fleshed out while the rest of the games just limps along. I don't even mind paying to play games but the amount of buy in necessary is just not worth it anymore, especially when they can just cancel what everyone wants in favor of harsher monetization strategies whenever they feel like it

[@xEvilRaptorx]

Diablo 4 is the last thing I'm giving blizz any money for. And even then, I got the cheapest version available. My friends and I might have only been small tuna when it comes to micros. But we all agreed that this shit is out of hand. We are speaking with our wallets. I hope the rest of the gamers follow along

[@nailinthefashion]

​@@xEvilRaptorx if you buy anything from the shop I will hunt you down and force feed you your least favourite snacks for the rest of your miserable days

[@nailinthefashion]

It's funny cuz if Bungie didn't emancipate themselves I think Destiny would have died as well

[@goon009]

@@nailinthefashion the sad thing is Destiny got worse than even ingredient after I left activation

[@nailinthefashion]

@@goon009 that wasn't coherent, I'm logging back in to do strikes right now..

[@aggrogahu]

Man, if you took all of the heroes, maps, and modes from season 1-6 and had them all dropped at one time at launch, OW2 would've actually been unbelievably hype. The drip feeding and charging for each batch is such a hype killer.

[@MudkipsAreEpicWin]

Pretty sure we haven't gotten a new map other than what we got in S1 yet.

[@konnerdarrough6911]

@@MudkipsAreEpicWinshambali, Antarctica, maybe more as well. I haven’t played in awhile

[@xlgeek]

Sorry do you mean the 3 heroes added (that I can think off the top of my head), a couple maps added while they took out a bunch of maps from ow1? The inclusion of an overpriced item shop and no way to earn any skins in game. You're not wrong the drip-feeding sucks but let's take an honest look at what ow2 is as a sequel and call it what it is, shit.

[@petemoss7704]

Antarctic Peninsula and Paraiso are missing right now :(

[@ccricers]

Here's a hot take, we need another Push map. I would enjoy Push a bit more if it was more than just 3 maps. The bad map rotation of previous seasons just added to everyone's burnout of that game mode.

[@rk9515]

11:42 I can't agree with you there Seagull, and it's only because I can't look forward to being excited for Story missions, It will just litterally be just like PVE stroy missions from OW1 and not the full spectrum of what PVE was supposed to be for OW2. It's a watered-down version of what was actually promised to us, and yes the story and cinematics will be good as it should be, bc this is a Triple-A company that can do that, but Blizzard can just do bare minimum PVE story like they did with OW1, and majority of the community will be okay with it. I am sure that's what Blizzard hoping for.

[@nailinthefashion]

It's a fully realized storm rising that we now have to pay for since they have cutscenes. They're so silly

[@JLNHB]

Small indie company though.

[@BerlinChair]

In the original 2019 announcement, Story Missions were said to not include the hero leveling systems and skill trees. It was something they got backlash for way back when. The Story Missions themselves, sadly the Story Missions alone, are exactly what we were promised.

[@nailinthefashion]

@@BerlinChair they specified and promised hero missions lol it's so weird to defend them at this point, they don't need your help

[@chancefischer8751]

My opinion on skins is if I spend 10 dollars on a skin I should be able to play with that skin for more then 10 hours to get my money worth I do same for games as well

[@xfuzzyslipperz4179]

Overwatch was easily one of my favorite FPS of all time. This decision has pushed me so far away from this game. I used to watch OWL, content creators, and I bought all the season pass up to season 4. I was a huge die hard Overwatch fan, but now I don't think I will ever touch this game again. They will never gain my trust again after this.

[@epsorks]

Same except buying battle passes for this dogshit game

[@GaIIeon]

Same I played OW1 since S3 up until they revealed their PVE plans and I never touched OW2 after that. It also helped that Street Fighter 6 came out and I wanted to get into Fighting games for quite some time now. So maybe it was a good thing for me that I left Overwatch lol

[@xfuzzyslipperz4179]

@@GaIIeon Street Fighter 6 is amazing

[@Robomania06]

A problem I have with this is that a lot of heroes won’t end up being playable in story missions. Think about it, what mission is Junkrat or Ashe gonna take part in? Will there be a Talon mission or is it only the new Overwatch team? Hero missions would have allowed for all heroes to have something. Now it feels like we’ll be getting the same 10 or so in every mission.

[@Nayutune]

I'm kind of curious about that too. They haven't showed Bastion a single time, Jeff during an announcement said that Bastion has a very important role in the sequel.. But we still know nothing about if he will even remain in those missions.

[@MooshPaw]

My guess is all heroes mode, also known as bastion mercy sigma Orisa comp

[@Relevart9169]

its obvious their favs are gonna be playable all the time, genji tracer mercy monkey rein in every mission

[@alftuvik3820]

There will probably be Talon missions and missions where someone has to team up with Junkrat and Roadhog, I doubt they would leave anyone out, we're just probably going to see members of overwatch more often than the rest.

[@DriplessShrimp]

​@@alftuvik3820 hell yeah but theyll be sold separate from the other 3 in their own bundle for 10$

[@DJLDJ132]

It’s incredible how they willingly shoot themselves in the foot, then they keep upping the caliber, as if small munitions will make you more resistant to higher ones.

[@nailinthefashion]

No yeah, the executive greed eating more and more of the franchise. OWL will be the first thing to go

[@damon6086]

Doesn't help when the community is like, "watered down version of our game? Shut up and take my money!"

[@wandajaximov4527]

​@@damon6086exactly the OW audience is 99% Cousoooooooomers who forgive and forget the minute another character is made gay

[@theindestructibleone483]

Lmao loved that reference

[@shadycat8898]

Monetizing heroes was always the writing on the wall. You can't take a game that entirely revolves around having access to a varied cast of heroes to count enemy team comps, and then put the newest counters behind a paywall. It defeats the entire purpose of the game. Their claims that the balance team would remove counters to justify the change was absurd. Nobody with any sense believed that. If the core of the game, playing different heroes, costs you extra money then nothing is truly off the table. Every element of the game has a price tag on it.

[@LulyRC]

Seagull is too lenient with blizzard. There is no excuse for what has happened with overwatch.

[@ProphesyOfTruth]

They basically pay his bills, he'll never abandon them or truly criticise them

[@eyescrossedFTW]

Seagull is very careful with his wording when it comes to describing how blizzard absolutely reamed all of us. He's also said in previous videos that "blizzard never lied about pve" when the written interview with Keller has him plainly stating that they knew as long as a YEAR AND A HALF ago.

[@drb4074]

Can you blame him? One thing Activision has is lotsa money and they'd absolutely love to sue the bejeebus out of anybody claiming they said X when they lawyer-language didn't. When you're a dirtbag greedy company, your enemy is the truth. That's why they use weasel words, and then use the threat of lawsuit to keep streamers/tubers from calling it out.

[@imstillaj]

He probably doesnt want to accidently burn bridges with the devs

[@PineappleZach666]

The worst part is that they technically already monetized it. When overwatch 2 was coming out it was 39.99 or whatever. AND PVE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE APART OF THAT. Then they changed it after the fact people bought it and just gave people a small amount of skins and coins. I was one of those stupid people who bought it early. I only bought it due to wanting pve. This is terrible. It feels like a scam.

[@ovencake523]

yeahhh the watchpoint pack... i forget did it explicitly mention we'd get PvE with that?

[@PixelCrabs]

​@OvenCake no, the watch point pack was literally just skins, coins and the first battle pass I believe. They never promised anything over that

[@JakobEslinger]

The messaging was vague. They originally said OW2 would have a box price so many bought it assuming it would include the pve.

[@ghostridernz17]

​@@JakobEslingerit was like that for alot of people being excited for ow2 that not many actually read what was offered and decided to get mad about playing themselves. I mean its the main reason i didn't buy the watch point pack was because it didn't give me anything i cared about lol

[@JakobEslinger]

@@ghostridernz17 they still knew they were cancelling pve when OW2 was released and withholding that info is unforgivable for me personally. I'm done with the franchise as someone who played since OW1 beta. I refuse to reward that scummy behavior

[@thecarptain]

It just occurred to me, everyone's assuming we'll keep getting drops of 3 missions, which could be setting us up for even more disappointment in future seasons when they could do less than that, but I guess we'll have that outrage when we get there

[@nailinthefashion]

Assuming they listen to feedback they'll do 4-5 next time with less cosmetics, and then do something stupid and experimental like multiple packs at the same time, one or two for class, then go back and forth btwn feast and famine while they can lol

[@Matt-pz4we]

100% Get ready for season 7 having some b.s. game mode they spent time on like starwatch instead of more story missions. They will not be able to keep up the release cycle, probably in the next 1-2 years they will stop completely and there will be Overwatch 3. New management and "a whole new strategy" that will be equally disappointing.

[@Handsy_McGee]

But hey, at least there will coincidentally be a new hero released too!

[@ryuuM21]

What really sucks about this is that it was already hard to get friends to buy a 60$ game to play with you but getting them to spend 15$ every few months is somehow even harder.

[@Glimmer175]

My biggest hold up is the forced coop. Why can't we play with AI? I'm a solo player and don't want a bunch of random ruining the story experience for me. I'll just wait until some streamers play it together and watch that.

[@nailinthefashion]

Sometimes i couldn't get thru a retribution run because our Cassidy or Reaper were so bad lol I don't want to even think about a dps player on Rein

[@KingOfNebbishes]

One big thing to tie together all this mess into a through line of complete failure is the Ramattra discussion. When Echo released, Jeff said they had "half a dozen heroes in the development pipeline," and they showed an early outline of him in 2019. Walk through it now. Ramattra was supposed to be the big villain of OW2 and was undoubtedly in development in 2019 as they were working on the PvE. There is ZERO reason he should have been the S2 release hero knowing they were not releasing the PvE if anything else was ready. Then look at Lifeweaver. Clearly unready. Clearly slammed together in a giant hurry, even with years of work beforehand on other heroes. The team is so busy stamping out 5v5 balancing fires and doing emergency reworks that they can't even keep up with a decent release schedule. This will only get worse as time goes on. They have to parcel out PvE in these paywalled chunks because there's no way to finish it with the crew they have, Activision on the edge of the merger isn't spending any dollars they don't have to, and they already seem to be planning to put the game on maintenance mode.

[@Mauriano1979]

The problem is that they decided to cancel the old PvE mode, more interesting and foundation of the 2 in ow2, and they told to the people lies such as "we are doing for the quality" "focus , scope" and other shit like that, but thereality is that they already did this before the launch of ow2 and they are cutting and spreading the product into seasons behind a paywall. And that's it.

[@burni988]

7:05 this I agree with. OW's monetisation is on the same level as most other popular games but the difference is that they basically promised something the polar opposite of what it's ended up being and cut back on a lot of content they said we'd get, and are now still charging those high industry prices for content that we know is mediocre compared to what it should've been.

[@henrygrawe3392]

NO ITS NOT. This is the Destiny 2 model for scumlord gaming companies. Literally every game that makes tons of money with a battlepass outside of D2 make DLC free. Fortnite, Apex, COD, Battlefield. Only Nintendo and D2 have this style of monetization. I hate that people just accept this. It's scummy and isn't even the most efficient way to make money. You can hate those games but they're so much more relevant than this game and make money solely on cool cosmetics and consitent hype with updates. This is pathetic honestly

[@EkiRoa1]

If you think this is the standard then you clearly need to broaden your catalog, that or you've been beaten by these companies so long that you've already turned off your brain

[@barschausdernachbarschaft1581]

@@henrygrawe3392the difference in Fortnite is that you have only one playable character which has many skins. The other games have multiple characters that have multiple skin and are pricing there Skin the Same as Fortnite.

[@SasquatchPJs]

PvE feels like Blizzard took a squat over my cereal, let a log drop and said "it's still cereal; dig in!" Not only have I lost most of the milk but now I need to dig through the shit to get my sugar fix.

[@nailinthefashion]

One of my catchphrases when someone gets yippy with me is who shat in your cereal this morning, and you're right, Blizzard has shat in ours

[@Millicente]

I could also argue that as a doctor, it's more money not to fix you on the first try but treat you mutliple times over the course of your life. Great logic if you're in it for money, shit logic for literally anyone else involved.

[@thebearded4427]

As someone working in e-commerce business i can tell you this: The people making the money decisions hardly ever understand the business model or the users. They are just looking at the end line of the invoices, walk around pretending to be "motivators" while the employees shut their mouths or they get fired. The reason gamers are outraged about where games are going these days is because they know how good it was before the money grabbers swooped in and started making TED-talk decisions that fucked the entire user base. The OG developers knew how much they could charge, because they were gamers themselves, and the business had a pretty decent idea of where to draw the line. The irony is that loyal, happy players in the milions that pay 1 buck per person makes TONS more than a thousand that pay 1000 bucks. The reason they think whales make them more money is because they completely fail to catch the huge player base.

[@endoxos5402]

Honestly this pve is such a spit in the face. Because like, we saw the INSANE potential that pve couldve been, but now its just a cheap copy of what it wouldve been. Its so depressing

[@ovencake523]

shadow of its former self

[@turkeyman631]

Yeah theres an extremely small chance it ends up being a great mode, but 95% chance this is just the same cookie cutter PvE they have always had and it wont be worth paying for in the slightest...

[@nailinthefashion]

​@@turkeyman631 there is no chance, they told us what they'll be and that's Halloween with cutscenes

[@nailinthefashion]

What frustrates me more is that we could still get augments or something to spice up each run but they aren't even doing that. All those fun, refreshing abilities just stuffed into the April fools patch or Thanos snapped lmao

[@AimRobot]

Fun fact: Blizzard think if you have every current legendary skin in the game, you should pay around 8950 dollars. Because that is the value they think is correct. (Legendary SKINS only)

[@Mario_bland]

I think the funniest thing is that the game informer article is meant for people who don’t play overwatch. Who’s not already into overwatch and is now super excited to spend 15 dollars on a less than 2 hour game that would feel like a demo to a larger game that no longer exists?

[@tcrzsppr3163]

"Understanding" why Blizzard have to be what they are is exactly why we're in this situation.

[@ncascini01]

This doesn't feel "a lot worse than it should." It feels exactly as bad as it should.

[@youdontknowmegigna]

Ain't no way I'm paying any amount of dollars for archive missions that feel like they were made in 10 minutes in Unity.

[@brandonray4493]

I think season 6 will be their best sales for "PVE" and then it will steadily decline as people get bored with the slow release for minimal content at stupid prices.

[@zerada00]

If they just told us what happened with PvE earlier and all of this wouldn't feel so dissapointing. I mean I'm assuming a lot here, but this is how I personally feel.

[@ElijahHawkins-kn8mj]

I think the thing that would really save pve is an endless survival mode and or tower defense. Throw in some RNG elements into the story missions l4d style and a smaller basic skill tree system or ability system that can get added to over time even if it starts with having to use points earned to unlock a characters abilities and ultimate. There’s a lot of ways you could use what’s already in the game now and what’s been developed and not implemented to create something engaging. It would create more decisions and dynamics that would make pve replayable and worth buying imo.

[@turkeyman631]

I also feel like paying for this and letting it be financially viable for them will only add to the problem so buying it is so tough for me. If the cinematics is the best part and the gameplay gets repetitive after two games, then what is the point to buy it anyway?

[@charlesmartiniii1405]

So don't buy it. This game isn't even good enough to pay for anymore. So many better games with better devs, and overwatch was my favorite game for years

[@snixxt248]

There is absolutely no point in buying this. Definitely not worth it.

[@nailinthefashion]

But don't you want to repeat it for a spray or high score? Lmao I'm just gonna watch someone stream them and save 60 dollars

[@DragonRex20]

They’re really expecting people to pay $150 for 10 hours of junkenstein

[@Mr___f]

My expectations are honestly low. Blizzard axed OW1, released a broken less fun OW2, and scaled back the campaign to what essentially sounds like paid archive missions. They can't keep players playing and keep heros balanced without any campaign development going on. Its just red flag after red flag. I am calling it here, ill be surprised if this game lasts a full year to June 2024.

[@Diphenhydra]

The only reason it’ll survive is because it has money from Activison, and potentially Microsoft.

[@reveriec]

It’s already dying 😂 I literally kept being group with the same people over and over again (they just get swap from teammates to enemies). Like shit. Season 5 looks to be an absolute shit, it’s basically a filler season. Season 6 is slightly filled but also seems to be shit. PvE story mission is basically archives with a bit more stuff in it. The fact that they are proud of that lore section being added is fucking hilarious

[@koredju]

Two hours of FFXVI are free, just saying.

[@mayitakeyourhatsir8632]

12:34 Blizzard thinks 20 tier skips in the battle pass is worth $20? Double the price of the premium itself? That's insane

[@Jaxos050]

19:52 "this isn't the first company to do this at all" activision-blizzard is literally the first company to institute this scale of wallet draining as part of how you play their games. it's a reality.

[@shadowsonshadowson3929]

“How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man?!” That random fish from SpongeBob, on behalf of all the fans Blizzard’s screwed over.

[@JackeryPumpkin]

If PVP wasn’t canceled because of campaign mode, then PVP has always been in the game since the archive missions. So PVE really launched in OW1. Huge perspective.

[@CurlyCross]

The worst part is the last couple years theyve been working on PVE they probably had this plan the whole time. these missions are probably all mostly done for years worth of time now and they'll just fine tune it.

[@nailinthefashion]

It doesn't matter what i think anymore, they told me profit was more important than hero missions, i wish i could be more upset about this

[@PandaVsGames]

Based as usual. Because no sane dev team, artists and co would be like pog let's waste x years then get that cut and then piecemeal that out via battlepass, and let's also monetise it like crazy. Everything is basically down to management/corpo decision making. Businesses prefer to have like $1bn cut up and smeared across years instead of it in 1 giant lump sum from a single release, due to shareholder expectations, taxation and probably a bunch of other finance-y reasons. They want to see money coming in regularly for a long time. Guess how high level Exec bonuses and long term incentive plans are constructed? - Create value / returns consistently / performance for x YEARS. So obviously they want to have ok/decent success for long duration, instead of huge success for short duration or their LTIs take a hit.

[@Kakodoyo111]

Ah yes, my favorite strimmer. Seagrull.

[@aaronwilliams8887]

the true best of the best, the legendary and one and only Grull of the Sea

[@burni988]

They could've still released the box product and then released extra stuff for new heroes as DLC and charge money for those. Still probably wouldn't be received SUPER well, but if the original product was amazing and on the scope promised, I don't think people would mind as much, and they'd still get to have a consistent source of income to continue developing the PvE.

[@ChriSaito]

I think my biggest issue is I was really excited for Overwatch to be something more. For the brand to grow. Look at League of Legends. I've played less than 10 games of League in my life but I've still interacted with the brand. Arcane was amazing and I love KDA! I also hear they have spin off games that I would absolutely love to try! The base game isn't for me but I still have a very high opinion of the brand and am fully willing to interact with it when they do something I like with it. Overwatch has the potential to be one of if not THE biggest brand in video games. It was clear when the PvE was canceled how massive the brand truly is because there were so many people who know next to nothing about the PvP who were disappointed by the news. Everyone was talking about it. Blizzard has something really special here and if they were to build on the brand I think they'd make so much more money than if they continue to nickel and dime their current player base. Realistically out of everyone who was going to buy the original PvE only a very small fraction will come by the game consistently for the new PvE stuff. Most of even those people will drop off after Season 6 or the next drop. It's really sad to see where we've gotten.

[@marteronde]

the secret sauce to make them stop doing this Frankenstein approach of cutting up a boxed game into thin slices of cheese and selling it for 250% markup... hold on to your pants is to stop buying into the model... you want expansion packs back? stop buying dlc you want full complete games in a box and not 6month-2years later? stop buying "live service" subscription games you just want a game to work once you installed it and run smoothly without crashing every 5 seconds and getting that sweet sweet 50 GB day 1 patch to "fix" the problems? stop pre-ordering you want the game devs to stop bloating games to the point you need 1 TB HDD/SSD to hold 4 games? honestly i dont know but my lord i rather deal with tapes again then this bloat change starts with the man in the mirror, so go tell him what you want and hold him accountable for it

[@Wintercat1]

What do you do when most of the money they make is off uneducated consumers? Kids with an allowance, stressed parents, whales, consumers who only play the most marketed or mainstream titles? Voting with your wallet boils the frog, unfortunately. At some point conscientious consumers have to abandon mass-market games entirely, or impose legal regulation.

[@marteronde]

@@Wintercat1 yes that is the nature of the beast is it not? the free to play model attract kids cause they dont own money and with a cult following that activisionblizzard has built up over the years that slavishly with buy there stuff no mater what cause "it used to be good" you like me (i assume) is an adult, you like me will have to make tough choices in life you like me will have to ask "do i want to work and be a live beta tester for a company that sees me like nothing more then a wallet with there money in it" do i want to support that? do i want to deal with the freemium paytowin nonsens that kids and whales love? or should i take my buisnies else where. the indi scene does exist, and doing quite well for itself, with a fair amount of people that actually care about what they make change still starts with you, and you will come to realize that you are one of many that steer that current. to quote Ryan Johnson "GO AWAY" and so we did star wars have crumbled to ruins because of it the second sequel trilogy is faint memories it is no longer a sure thing that a star wars movie/product will break even and i promise you, there was not a council of fans holding a vote to leave

[@Wintercat1]

@@marteronde KZbin has deleted my reply twice, IDK. Disney is making billions in ROI off their Star Wars strategy. They're not stopping anytime soon. Leaded gasoline made huge profits for the auto industry for 100 years, even though the danger was well-known to the public. As a result the average IQ has dropped world-wide. I believe in putting money where my mouth is, so I don't give money to companies I don't agree with. However, I don't entertain the notion it makes a difference. I'm being quite blunt, but it's ignorant to think it will "make them stop". Voting with your wallet only makes a difference in the case of massive, centrally organized boycotts. Most consumers simply will not make intelligent or ethical decisions. No call to action changes that, whether it's a youtube comment or an op-ed on primetime TV. Regulation isn't always the answer, but sometimes it's the only answer. Voting with your wallet boils the frog.

[@3lit3gn0m3]

I reinstalled OW2 the other day, but haven't played yet. For some reason, thinking about not buying the PvE and feeling like I'm playing a demo of Overwatch just feels off to me. Being a second-class player cause I don't want to pay $20 CAD for the ONLY actual PvE OW will get just feels bad. I expected to pay $40-$50 maybe for a huge PvE drop, and now we get scraps for almost half? Haven't even watched the video and I'm already tilted. O_O

[@Label07]

LoL does underhanded things like what Stylosa described Blizz likely doing. They put out a new hero, make sure they are OP. Get more sales than they would have if the character was balanced. People feel they have to have the new OP hero in order to have the edge in matches. 1 to 2 months later they nerf that hero and the cycle repeats...change my mind.

[@iRDaBrit]

I've had a version of OW installed on my machines ever since the release of OW1. Until today. I'm done.

[@emilysmite9356]

These missions are basically the Blackwatch missions with extra bits.. I feel like if they took the time to create the campaign/PvE they promised and released it as a sort of expansion pack thing, a ton of people would probably be willing to pay 20 or 30 dollars for it. Maybe even 40 idk.

[@leinadlink]

this would've worked WAY BETTER if these missions had the skill trees and the "replayable PvE" they promised.

[@turkeyman631]

Let's just say these missions have to be an improvement on their prior PvE missions for this to be anywhere near worth buying. Only time will tell. Personally, I'm going to watch others play it first and decide on whether or not to buy it as I have a bad feeling that this will just be something you play once or twice and never play again.

[@nailinthefashion]

It's so crazy to see people's optimism die in real time, but they told us full stop if you wanna repeat it you can go for a high score lmao they are gonna be a bit more fun than storm rising but unless you're obsessed with role-playing you'll go through as your fave heroes and then never touch it again

[@AggronAaron]

Don't forget about the people who bought watchpoint got cucked out of these PvE missions

[@ekkys04]

Well it's only $15 for the first sprinkle of PVE. Just this full chapter alone will be at least $60 And without player progression, it'll likely be relatively similar to the snoozy pve missions we've already gotten (fun for a playthrough or two but that's at free)

[@Suphii]

Feels good to know other people are suffering over a video game like me too c:

[@maxieroo629]

God of war is a 26 hour game with cutscenes. After the 4 big acts of this game well get 2 hours x 4 acts = 8 hours of game including cutscenes (roughly). After that, we will have paid $60 for only 8 hours of content, whereas for the same price, you could literally buy GoWR or another game

[@ManoKi_]

Man overwatch players are the new destiny players. You play for every single thing and have to just suck it up. In destiny you pay for a battle pass and get the season pass which you have to login every week after reset to do the same things (talk, season playlist, one mission, talk) and at the end you get a small dialogue drop on what’s happening, be sure to come back next week to do it all again. You do it for 10 weeks and nothing really happens till the last week of the season where some event happened that might be cool. Be sure to buy the next season to see what happens! Wanna play the newest dungeon? Those are separate now! Pay 20 bucks for both up front, no you can’t pay for each one. Wanna know where the story is going? Buy the next dlc, 3 seasons, and dungeons!! I jumped off the overwatch ship a while ago but holy fuck these things are sad to watch

[@SirFuzzyLogik]

"Permanent Access" to Sojourn and these missions. Does that phrase smell like ass to anyone else?

[@styregt2006]

so what, did you wanna pay for missions that would only last for the season?

[@SirFuzzyLogik]

@@styregt2006 That phrasing just implies they can yoink all this away at any moment. It's just a weird way to put it

[@Montesama314]

Permanent access for as long as the server runs. If Blizzard shuts it down, you paid for nothing permanent.

[@Relevart9169]

"permanent" access until u get tired of playing with bots on your team cuz no one else is queuing up

[@raimondibro]

I quit after the announcement that pve was cancelled. I miss ow1. Only played ow2 to support the devs while waiting for what I thought would be 1st person WoW. Used to be a wow player so blizz literally could've taken my money 🤣

[@gravecompanion]

at this point im just fascinated seeing how day 1 creators have grown over the course of this catastrophic 7 year blunder and im pleasantly surprised there are dudes who still have a degree of their sanity remaining

[@reagansido5823]

No amount of F2P justifies 20 dollar skins. If the game was just 60, they would quite literally be a dime a dozen. But now that it's free, suddenly 3 cosmetics are the price of a full triple A game. Da fuck do you have to smoke to think that checks out?

[@LastSider]

1:04:30 This is what Ive been telling my friends and family. Used to liked Overwatch but, I just dont want to log in to play a sweaty PvP game. At the moment 5vs5, in my opinion, has devolve into a quick steamrolling PvP game that I dont want to play and whos Battlepass is a nerve wreck to do/complete.

[@sooperdude22]

I have sunk countless days worth of time into playing Overwatch. Overwatch "2", however, I could not play more than a few hours before shelving it like the far-too-common Battle Pass/Item Shop cash grab it is.

[@oguzcanoguz5977]

I actually hate this modern trend of arguing for the companies by sympathizing with them and looking at it from the POV of their "dreams". Companies do not give a fuck about what a customer wants needs customers that do not give a fuck about what the company wants to set them straight. I dont care what business model would make them more money, I just care what business model and content would be better for the consumer. Give people a big story campaign, that ties everything together, is coherent and also leads to a satisfying conclusion. If people like it, you can create more and sell it again as an expansion or even mini expansions. That is the lowest I am willing to go. Also it does not make sense to do PvE content like this. Most PvE players do not want to play PvP competitive and most PvP competitive people do not care about the PvE stuff. By forcing PvE players into PvP battlepass, you are just distancing most of them. In the end, you might make more money from the people that actually succumb to your evil monetization, but it is definitely not going to be as much money. I have never seen this kind of drizzle of PvE content work as a model, especially if it is gated behind PvP content. Whoever is making these decisions has no attachment to reality. This will result in a big loss for them.

[@camerondp9884]

I don’t know if anyone else has mentioned anything about this but I’m assuming you can’t buy the PvE/battlepass bundle with OW coins. So if they are pushing as many people as possible to buy that over just the battlepass then the currency placed in the battlepass people won’t use to buy the next one anymore since they will likely want the PvE missions which probably can’t be bought separately from the bundle that includes the pass. So people will just dump their currency from the pass into the shop

[@nailinthefashion]

You just described why I'm not getting the battlepass anymore even though I've completed each one so far lol they've chosen the Sith route

[@tomorrowisyesterday3215]

Why you even want waste OW coins for pointless mission, probably will go away when new pass coming instead of skins?

[@burni988]

I didn't think the battle pass even gave premium currency. I thought it just gives u the free currency that only lets u buy old OW1 skins and other OW1 cosmetics.

[@camerondp9884]

@@burni988 tbh I actually don’t know if it’s the premium currency, Most games give you enough currency after buying your first pass to keep buying the new battlepass as long as you don’t spend it elsewhere so I just assumed it was the premium…. but I forgot that there are two currencies in this game..

[@barschausdernachbarschaft1581]

@@camerondp9884 in ow you can’t buy the battlepass with the currency that is in the battlepass. Idk how they got away with it

[@bolicob]

If the three missions were included in the battlepass it would be so much better

[@nailinthefashion]

But that would be generous, and they're choosing profit regardless of what it does to the playerbase morale

[@ivenstorm]

Here's the thing... if they were smart they could have hired on 5-8 people to just focus on the PVE mode. Instead they pulled people from other departments to focus on it, which in turn caused issues for their main game. They can afford it, they are a multi-billion dollar company making 7-8 billion dollars a year before expenses. Sell that PVE mode for 30 dollars and very few people would complain. Right now you can spend 20 dollars and get Borderlands 2, Metro 2033 Redux, Wolfenstein: The New Order, or Doom 2016 for just shy of 20 dollars, and that's going to drop down even further once Steam Sales start. That doesn't even count the hundreds of other fps titles that go for even cheaper than that from 10+ years ago. But of course they didn't do that. We all know whose to blame for that, but at this point I become a broken record saying his name. Going to end up like Candy Man if I say it too many times.

[@Diphenhydra]

Hell, for the same price you can get Fortnite: Save the World, which is a pretty good PvE co-op game with an enormous amount of content available. Plus, you would get the battle pass with it. Blizzard has tried so hard to emulate Fortnite and fails every time.

[@aegis766]

The Old Republic - back before Anthem, the OG BioWare catastrophe, reminds me of how badly OW has been managed

[@aegis766]

Not meaning to double-post, but another observation/conspiracy theory about why cancel PvE rather than let it cook another year: I think Blizzard believes OW was/is going to cannibalize its Diablo playerbase. They want OW to be Blizzard's competitive PvP 'franchise' now that Starcraft is dead, just like CoD for Activision, Diablo to be the 'solo'/small-group PvE 'franchise,' and WoW to be the MMO PvE. I think they saw a risk of OW PvE diverting an audience that would have otherwise fed the Diablo beast.

[@anthonyortiz1269]

at least in valorant the gun skin is equipped on everyone i play. its way different for ow since if i get a skin for mcree it wont work for ana or something.

[@imboredhowru1]

"Characters in new positions and new scenarios" Ok Sty, ok bud

[@jtck1310]

I wouldn't think it's that bad if there were 4 missions or if friends could play with you without paying.

[@FrostyzZ311]

Yeahhh also if there is skill tree i dont mind...

[@spectrum4524]

If the $15 is a one-time purchase for all current and future story missions, then the price is absolutely great; however, this is Activision we're talking about here... I'd sooner believe that camels over in the Sahara carry the world's best frozen dessert than Activision being customer friendly. The missions have already been stated to provide approximately 1 1/2 hours for the bundle of 3 missions. That's $15 for less than 2 hours' worth of content. Multiply everything by 4 and you get less than 8 hours of content from 12 Story Missions at the price of $60. This is 2023, the JRPG companies such as Atlus already do things correct, price a game that provides 100-120+ hours of content for $60. Any company that charges the same price for a mere fraction of content is scamming you.

[@wongwong1517]

Those are some miserably low standards.

[@garrelus]

I assume you can play any missions for free when they release, but once the season ends, they stop being available and you have to pay to have access to them. Basically, buying the missions allows you to play them whenever they’re not available anymore. It sounds like there’s no purchase required, at least not at first.

[@nailinthefashion]

​@@spectrum4524 hey guys so today we have a new battle pass you can PAY FOR to add on to your current one called a STORY PASS. Wallets please!!!

[@benja9029]

what a genius move by Blizzard. they successfully turned OW from box price game to f2p model then take a lot of it's features and sell them one by one later on ahahaha they also managed to make acquiring skins lean towards more to the cash shop by eliminating that pesky loot box reward system from OW1 and change it to f2p battle pass system hahahah the best part is people will still support the game. Blizzard just need to weather out this minor inconvenience called community backlash until everyone else moves on and they'll be chillin

[@Aeivious]

One thing ive noticed is that a LOT of game companies are taking the cash payout now instead of investing. The cancelation of PVE has not only killed future prospects of profits it also kills future profits from PVP. Image and goodwill matters a lot and both were shot dead with this decision which heavily hinders the longevity of the game in all aspects.

[@mikestakeon]

This must be tricky to navigate as a content creator. Paying for these missions is easy enough to dismiss as a tax write off and an investment etc, but from my perspective as a normal gamer and dwindling fan of OW, paying for this crap is Blizzard "winning". I've played since OW1 launch, but I've already decided not to buy any more Battlepasses, and I sure as hell am not paying for these gutted story missions. It'd be amazing of content creators would take a stance and do the same, but realistically, that ain't happening.

[@PianoMyHeart]

i have never and will never spend money on a skin. $19 is insane.

[@jarihaukilahti]

greed before they sell they company to microsoft , i assume - what you think dont matter for them anymore -only micosoft does and what they can buy when it goes through

[@syd4n]

I feel like developers miss the point on the micro transactions and completely ignore the micro part

[@AnymMusic]

They're really starting to stretch the meaning of micro

[@goodnightgoodluck309]

I think he's right about the monetization with skins being up to 100 dollars with free to play games like Apex and Val, but honestly I think the reason everyone hates this in over especially now is because unlike overwatch. Apex and valorant haven't lied to their community for like 4 years with a game mode valorant has some really cool weapons skins so I don't mind giving them 20 dollars ever now and then and the same for apex. But when I promised a pve mode and then after years it's just thrown in the trash and then they want to sell me pieces of it for 15 and upwards of 40 dollars that's what I think is wrong. There was something I saw in one of the comment sections on another video and it was" I have never seen a developer shoot themselves in the foot so many times they need to reload the gun" and this is so true

[@michaels9595]

22:31 I have to say now that I guess I don't know what pve is anymore. from what it sounds like, i was never really onboard with what everyone was expecting anyway.

[@Brieflynormal]

Honestly since the pve is technically cancelled I’m just going to watch the story on KZbin at this point the last money on spent on overwatch was buying the first game back in 2016 and that’s all the money I’ll spend

[@moi1310]

Same better just to pick your favorite streamer to try it out. Support the streamers instead of Blizzard.

[@samusai]

Did Halloween have that many interactions? I played a couple of times and it was the same exchanges each time. Like that's why I got so bored with it. It wasn't like Retribution-where I'm sad that there's at least 2 dialogue paths I know I didn't get.

[@jaycamel2174]

I had some friends pre-pay for this game. Are they just going to have to buy it again? I'm surprised no one has even discussed the pre-order people.

[@Meteaura22]

When you double the count of the original video haha great vid again Seagull

[@R008_N1NJ4]

Have to say ow is server based so you don’t technically get the story missions forever

[@ColorHeartCarlie42]

I'm just going to say it. Skins are pointless. And they will never be worth it.

[@uniteduniverse9107]

Fun fact if nobody has said this yet, Smite sells their highest tier skins at $100 sometimes more, and Pokemon Unite which it's just clothes on your pokemon ranges between $20-$40, almost no free skins or very very rare

[@1draigon]

I don’t Play overwatch. I would’ve played the story missions, even in the state they are in now. But WHY should I pay for the battle pass that I ABSOLUTELY don’t need???

[@IndianaJakeisanIdiot]

I just had an epiphany, do you think activision corpo/Bobby Kotick is trying to milk PVE right away in battle passes because the PVE we were promised would have been delayed past when Microsoft acquires it and the current corpo wouldn’t have gotten the crazy amount of money it would generate? So they’re saying, give us the 200 mil now from the neutered pve so we can make more money, instead of giving Microsoft corpo 1 billion in the future when the promised version of PVE releases.

[@Semi-Cyclops]

my proble with this is. blizzard is normally the tresd setter for these things, they are the ones who started the whole lootbox thing. and if people buy this they are sending a message to companys "hay these idiots wont complayin about games becoming 70$ but they will happily buy a game for 200$ if its devided into chunks" and then every game will be like this.

[@loue9376]

Rip Jeff gone but never forgotten 😢

[@TheNerd]

The main point of the "story bits" is to keep people playing the game / battlepass to make them buy skins over time (because you keep playing). That is literally the only goal. Keep people playing so they buy more skins. thats the entire strategy of their business model.

[@Soundsaboutright42]

Just don't buy it. All streamers included.

[@clovispi]

They will bring back the Archives Missions for f2p to get them to buy the new story missions.

[@Relevart9169]

lmao no they won't

[@nailinthefashion]

Hahahahahaha that would be so great. Let the new players see how basic it was so they'll happily pay for the upgraded ones

[@jamescombridgeart]

Wait they're charging for half baked 'not pve' pve now too... Jeeeezzz. I didn't think they could stoop any lower. I should just assume moving forward that if there's a stupid decision to be made, they will make it.

[@steel-man13]

watch it be like the watchpoint pack where they "promise" access to this. just to turn around and completely cancel it all just to take your money

[@biggshoverwelder3690]

55:55 More likely it'll go like: season six: Pve missions, season seven: new hero, season eight: new maps, season nine new pve content etc.

[@JakobEslinger]

It's not the silent majority, it's the minority of whales. 3 whales are worth 300 normal players

[@alanverduzco6513]

the problem is its not just PEOPLE buying them. We have this peeve about the gaming industry leaning on these micro transaction practices that rub us the wrong way. They rub us the wrong way, because, deep down, we know that the insane prices are meant for financially immature people and specially children. Them doing this is for a more nefarious purpose which i could throw out the idea that it is to condition this vulnerable population of gamers. so that they can inflate the value of what a skin is worth through sheer gullibility. It's a way to manufacture consent through numbers. normalize it if you will. one of the biggest goals corporations are gunning for across all industries since forever is, that they are trying to separate the value of your dollar to the value of what youre actually buying. it's working exceptionally well. we gotta realize that we cant stop them from doing it because they hold the power. They will continue as long as it keeps working. So, if we want to do anything about it. We have to find out ways to protect those who are more vulnerable to cheap consumerism tactics through strategies such as education. targeting the issue of FOMO is the first thing that comes to my mind. But there might be so many other solutions out there we could try. It may not work 100% but we need to TRY something out and hope for the best instead of simply ranting and complaining. That wont really make bad shit go away on its own.

[@Romancesymphony]

I can't wait for them to get you guys to buy the PvE only for them to cancel it and said they never had plans to release it in the first place. Quit falling for it.

[@YokaiSteve]

You completely missed the point of what he was saying at 13:40 about people playing a year from now and want to play the PVE stories, if they are tied to season passes (which they are) it'll literally be impossible to buy them once they've gone to each new season.

[@jorochimaru]

This is blizzard moving up the goal post. Eventually, each season will be $15 essentially because they will scam you by putting in coins. Look at season 6. People will think might as well pay extra $5. But in blizzards eyes, they got everyone to pay $15 instead of $10.

[@JosephRizzo]

When Overwatch 2 was announced, I fully expected it to crash and burn as it has. The reason is two-fold: 1.) Project Titan already crashed and burned 2.) No other PvE game has tried to release with 30 characters at once. The reason is pretty simple - complexity. With the 30 characters at the end of Overwatch 1, there are 4,060 combinations of a team of 3 characters to choose from. Adding 1 choseable skill makes that jump to 34,220. Adding 3 makes that 117,480 different combinations. All of these have to be balanced and worked through - and it's no surprise that given the sheer complexity of the undertaking - that PvE was abandoned. Now, Blizzard could have kept Overwatch 1 and built a smaller PvE game with a subset of the heroes - but that wasn't the combined vision that the Overwatch team had.