Seam Welding Race Cars

[@odoyle3655]

Awesome video with great info. Side note, for anyone seam welding on convertible cars (miata guys, s2000, bmw m3, fiat 124, etc), in general these cars will have good front to rear rigidity (longitudinal strength), but really can benefit from trying to increase side to side rigidity (lateral strength). Welds around door seems , lower floor pans, and around internal cross-members are a few good starting points.

[@LukeEvans55]

Thinking about doing this to my mx-5/miata, thanks for this comment 👍

[@stuvie8986]

The best channel for grassroots rally weekend warriors. Thank you from all of us.

[@boro92]

Speaking about rally prep-- how about how to disable throttle cut when left foot braking on new cars? I find most vehicles do this even with esc disabled.

[@Teamoneilrally]

That's a good one - we should do a video and we've talked about it a few times but almost all cars are a little different these days how you need to go about it. There's no "one good way" to do it, at least not that we've found yet.

[@boro92]

Would be lovely to see some content on this!

[@bn880]

Great question, I had that "feature" destroy a turbocharger once on a car I built. (massive stresses on turbine especially around 30psi) My conclusion was to use a custom ECU like MOTEC etc. Sucks and isn't cheap.

[@Farlig69]

Would be good to see a before after rigidity test (without a cage) to see the real benefits of seam welding / stitching!

[@Albert87nl]

okay this is waay more educational thne i expected :O! love how you guys take time to explain it. and add NO stupid music or to much cut scenes thanks guys (y)

[@InitialDIYmods]

Awesome. Any downsides to seam welding? Potential corrosion if not resealed properly, increased cabin noise (not sure if it's significant but that's one concern I have had with my daily driven racecar and why I haven't done it), possible distortion of the chassis if not welded properly, anything else? Thanks for the videos

[@sphericalsphere]

how about having to strip your entire car down to a bare chassis :D

[@Teamoneilrally]

Spot on, you definitely want to re-seal everything really well anywhere it's likely to get wet. We've seen $200k race cars that are rusting between seams and into the rocker panels etc... Sad and actually somewhat dangerous as the years go by. Cabin noise might be a tiny bit louder. Distortion definitely a risk. One other thing is crash repair: If you seam weld a car extensively and then get in a wreck (assume it's gonna happen sooner or later) getting the car fixed again is usually more difficult because you'll have to cut each of those stitch welds to replace panels. We used to stitch weld the seams all around the inside of the door openings (WRC engineers at M-Sport confirm stitching up the door seams is the #1 way to increase chassis stiffness in Fiesta chassis) but when you have to replace rear quarter panels or anything after a wreck it's days more work to get everything perfect again.

[@EngineEngineer]

What makes you think it would increase cabin noise?

[@iamtheflu]

The stiffer something is, the more conductive of vibrations it becomes.

[@InitialDIYmods]

Thanks. And great answer. I didn't even think about crash repair efforts being a bigger pain.

[@GTarditi]

Great video, it's nice to have proper videos about race car engineering from folk who know what they're talking about. Would there ever be a reason to seam weld street cars unless they were super weak from the factory? I kind of assume not as they probably wouldn't be requiring race car body stiffness, but I assume it changes how the car feels especially if you were using something never intended to be that fast i.e. non-ST fiestas?

[@Teamoneilrally]

Not any real reason to seam weld a street car unless there was a well-known weak point that could cause catastrophic failure, but that's a super rare situation.

[@car_ventures]

@@Teamoneilrally Would the same go for a 70-81 GM fbody? Unibody, fair amount of overall weight - some even came with t tops, reducing structural rigidity. Wonder if perhaps there would be any advantage for that type of vehicle.

[@ancientapparition1638]

@@car_ventures I know your comment was like five years ago but this seems to be why the GM engineers of the c4 used an x brace underneath the car to prevent the chassis from flexing too much. Even that doesn't fix it all apparently. I would highly recommend you make your old GM vehicle a buggy and piss off local law enforcement.

[@Keratsas]

I know it's not really relevant to the video but does the firewall offer any structural rigidity, because i've seen many engine swapped rx8s with cut firewall and I'm in guestion.

[@edavis555]

Wish i would have seen this video a few years back when I did some seam welding my project rally car. For the shell I worked on I found that you could pretty easily get a lot more seam sealer out after wire wheeling by using a dental pick. Hit some seams with a MAPP gas torch before welding too when it wasn't possible to get all of it out.

[@jamesgolden3496]

Should this be done on Jack stand or with the car on the ground

[@josudonnay1099]

Great video guys! Thanks I finally get some proper info about this topic. I have a rover 220 coupé turbo and I have seen a 3cm long crack in one of the front beams right next to the bolting point of the front subframe. I am planning on welding the crack and reinforcing the area welding the panels together as you explain on this video.y question is, would it be any problem if I only weld that area and not the rest of the car? It's a street car with stiff coilovers, that is always driven very fast and from time to time on trackdays.

[@metagen77]

Can I seam weld my benis?

[@CarGuy87]

yes

[@N54_Dre]

I second the last comment. I lived in Vermont for I while and just moved back to nyc. If I would've known about T.O.R.S. when I was up there; I would've definitely taken courses. Keep the videos coming we're definitely appreciating them.

[@4G12]

Welding up the cabin and suspension makes all the sense in the world since those are the regions that need to be stiff for best possible handling. Strengthening the crumple zones? Better break the car than breaking the irreplaceable driver.

[@hiramesensei3112]

With the crazy conditions rally cars goe through, what is done to add protection to the underbody from rust/corrosion?

[@edlingja1]

Expand Dong Well you remove the rust first, then anywhere necessary do what they said and weld shit on or just replace it with a nicely seam welded part. Whatever you need for the actual car you are working on. You can't just use blanket statements, see if things flex under your own weight &'go from there.

[@TheTothtamas]

Cool series I really like it But your audio in the last 2 videos is nat so good

[@keithdunham8139]

To much echo

[@despizedicon]

welding areas with multiple layers and factory adhesives in between is touchy also.

[@iiredeyeiiredeye1569]

It depends on what your preparing. If your changing all of your key positions...Top mounts, Subframe bushings etc. Then seam weld the whole car first. let it do what it wants to do with regards to shrinkage etc then weld in your top mounts, cage, then finally subframe bushings. Your never going to prevent shrinkage/distortion but you can work around it by letting it do it's thing...then putting in the key points and minimising error.

[@eros20V]

Great stuff guys. How about seam welding a 30 year old unibody vehicle for track day use ?

[@Teamoneilrally]

As long as it's still straight, it definitely can't hurt!

[@TheFatPandaIAm]

This answered most of the questions I had. Thanks!!!!

[@PressurenFlames]

What about bonding the structure with 2 component body adhesive?

[@chriskelvin248]

The problem is 2-part panel bond adhesive is designed to work by bonding two pieces of bare metal. To do that on an already-constructed and used unibody shell, you would have to remove the two panels in question (in other words, pop the spot welds holding them together from the factory), prep both mating surfaces to bare metal, then reassemble them in place until cured. With seam welding, it's already very time-consuming to strip the car to the shell, remove the undercoating and wire wheel the exposed seams, then weld them. At least the panels are already in place and the critical dimensions are retained (as long as the welder is careful to weld a little in one area at a time so as not to warp the car). The product is great, but not magical to the point where you can just squirt it in the cracks and it will just goop the old paint/ dust/ corrosion into one structurally-sound joint.

[@nickamarit]

E46 floorpan above rear subframe are notorious for failing due to being punctured by the outside fins of the subframe bushings (the subframe bushings' design is at fault, mainly).

[@euandykes]

Any use of adhesives to replace fasteners?

[@cameronyoung2004]

Fablife ftw keep going man. I just found you guys a few weeks ago. I'd love to work with you guys.

[@smthsn5610]

so cage first or seam weld first??

[@Teamoneilrally]

Seam weld everywhere that'll be impossible once the cage is in, do the cage, then finish seam welding.

[@domb1576]

I just learned so much ty

[@KostadinDelizhanski]

Great video, but next time i wish you better audio setup. Like from me, keep up the good work.

[@OhighOSkater]

Awesome video! Good information

[@ianholmquist8492]

Great stuff guys! some day I'll get there..

[@CharisWilliams]

thanks for the tips

[@bravethewildgaming8139]

I got a Honda Del Sol I’m stripping to literally the bare necessity and this video helped a lot. I’m familiar with seam welding and welding steel is my trade. But I appreciate the happy medium theory, cause I can definitely lean towards over kill, to where it may make it perform worse or even be not as safe as it should be. Going full Honda Kart JAPROD on my Sol! Woohoo

[@Mustardmartin]

Good stuff guys always love starting my morning out with some good old T.O.R.S. videos

[@W333dm4n]

this is some midnight wangan shit if you know what i mean

[@headlesnorseman701]

Seem welding streetcar will absolutely destroy the safety factor. The entire car is engineered very carefully as a spring essentially. Would never ever recommend for a street driven car

[@SubieNinja]

4:54

[@spenner3529]

Nice. Informative. No silliness.

[@immortalbentley]

man i wanna do this with my car but who can i trust to do it right...

[@Teamoneilrally]

thompsonracingfabrication.com/

[@stevegbond85]

I beg you guys, get a microphone...please

[@andrejuul2846]

You forgot to tell that welding a chassis will make the metal go soft. You should never weld the super high strength steel.

[@ratedm90]

Andre Juul what does go soft mean?

[@bn880]

The metal is already soft. These cars aren't exactly military kit.

[@bn880]

As far as I am aware it's all still almost the same material as 15 years ago in terms of stiffness. Only some trucks etc have special alloy frames as far as I have heard. The reason modern cars are lighter, is indeed because of thinner metal, however this metal also bends very easily (often in your fingers) compared to the thicker stuff of yester year (as you'd expect) and the overall design (shape) is what keeps it rigid enough and safer (crumples a lot more). The only thing one can really watch out for is to not put a crazy amount of heat in one small section... but generally if you move around the car when welding nothing should go wrong material strength wise and at least not anything that will overcome the flex and weakness of economical welding spots from the factory.

[@RexinOridle]

Cars should be continuously seem welded from the factory. They just spot weld and then add glue afterwards.

[@gwot]

no point at all much more time, money, and material needed to produce, and for 95% of the car's use by the customer, more than enough for the life of the car.

[@-smp-scientificmethodpersp838]

El wow wow

[@tim8505]

Nice thank you :D i think i will cage it first :/

[@GunZTube1]

omg maximum attack bro

[@Googlename699]

enough talking!