SECOND DERAILMENT IN 3 WEEKS! 7/26/2019 Horseshoe Curve, PA

[@TrainTrackTrav]

Railroading so precise, they derail the same type of cars at the same location!

[@Bassotronics]

Centerbeams have been the cause of many accidents lately. They are the lightest rail cars when unloaded. Improper consist is the issue.

[@marcusthelion9051]

Oh NS when will you learn?! Centerbeams go at the Back!

[@1ndygirl]

At least they keep the silliness on the outside track 3.

[@janekiceniuk1578]

We've I figured that out, & I know nothing about this stuff

[@hifijohn]

You think the engineers would have said something at least took the curve very slowly.

[@1ndygirl]

@@hifijohn speed isn't the issue. Heavy engines and heavy freight cars (or a long string of them) pull the lightweight cars into a straight line and off of a curved track.

[@Harveycartoonlvr11]

You know...that is WHAT I WAS THINKING TOO! Good Lord...What Next...NS has had it's share of Derailments in Pennsylvania this year!

[@trmn311]

The guy and his wife took off like it was their fault! C’mon on Mildred let’s get out of here! 😂

[@TNS17]

trmn311 😂🤣

[@johncochran2907]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@tomy.1846]

LOL!!

[@A65impalass]

😂😂

[@lowjamz828]

I thought that was hilarious. I can understand being surprised by it. But they took off like they were in some serious danger LOL!

[@filmer765]

Lesson learned: When hauling a freight train (long or short) on any railroad, Centerbeam cars always go on the back, not the front, nor the middle.

[@thomasboese3793]

Due to railfan pressure, Horseshoe Curve is renamed to Derailment Hill Curve after the 3rd derailment in 6-weeks. NS spokesperson has no comment.

[@michaelbeard3192]

Stringline the long empties up front trying to pull a heavy train. Lets hear if for "Precision Railroading".

[@13BGunBunny]

Burn.

[@alexandergrube6437]

Norfolk Southern: there was another derailment at Horseshoe Curve MOW workers: *say sike right now*

[@Narpets2112]

Might I suggest that anytime you see a train come through with empty centerbeams in front, you keep the camera focused on them?

[@bfurailroad1104]

Bill, this camera is not manned 24hrs a day, only certain times of the day.

[@traintimebigmachines]

that is something to keep in mind, thanks!! wow

[@TheDiveO]

Maybe some AI could control the camera, and with the rail companies providing so much footage these days suitable for AI training...

[@13BGunBunny]

Yes! Most people at least have a phone to whip out.

[@13BGunBunny]

@@bfurailroad1104 I think that he was talking about us, the people that like train crashes. "anytime you see" Note the word *you* in there?

[@Bmorang]

This is becoming the Ashland of derailments

[@chsrails]

Yes

[@timsering9964]

those empty, light weight wood racks up front...should have been in the rear....they just pulled across the chord of of the arc

[@artmeadath2016]

Precision scheduled railroading....with precision scheduled derailments

[@glenncartwright6136]

Whoever keeps putting those empty centerbeams at the head of trains that have to travel around the Horseshoe with that steep of a grade needs to lose their job!

[@kc4cvh]

His name is Gomez Addams.

[@jarhead4God]

And this includes the engineer and the conductor!!!

[@ohboy2592]

jarhead4God and why should the engineer and conductor lose their jobs?

[@Andrew-13579]

@@kc4cvh LOL

[@jarhead4God]

@@ohboy2592 It's in the rule book

[@intimidate2161]

Who ever put this train together missed a physics class and has no common sense. Light cars go to the back.

[@markfryer9880]

Not to mention not reading a recent article in TRAINS magazine about train make up and how to avoid this.

[@WSOR6604]

You guys sure have it figured out.

[@shadetreeforge]

Any model rail roader knows you don't makeup a train like that! obviously the yardmaster never played with trains as a kid or he would have known this!

[@samiam619]

Frank Strock OTOH, most model Railroaders only pull empty cars...

[@markfryer9880]

True but even modelers have trouble with cars like spine cars and finished lumbar cars.

[@Bassotronics]

Improper consist. Empty centerbeams right behind the loco on a curve pulling heavier railcars is not really a good idea. “String-lining” took effect here.

[@damien_epic5027]

NS: just a little mistake Train people: center beams in the back pls

[@prrboy9359]

Ns derailments before 2019: were fine Ns derailments now: not fine not fine

[@avajameson705]

At this rate, we'll be out of centerbeams by 2026!

[@lateefcarrere1649]

Horseshoe Curve: I've got another derailment! That's 2 in 3 weeks! 11'8" bridge: Rookie!

[@RRIA_America]

1:28 Those two on the bench were out of there!

[@rascallyrabbit717]

A train not moving is of little use

[@mikejordan8259]

I saw that!

[@ethancundiff6422]

They missed the intermodal 3 minutes later!

[@Clam73]

Lol. When I was a kid in the 80s playing with my HO layout I knew not to put such a type of empty car in the front like that because it would pull on it going around a curve and might derail.

[@beerybill]

Someone sure mucked up. I have a large S scale layout in the garage and would never make up a consist like that.

[@omega7b948]

NS railroad, New Stringlines

[@TNS17]

Stephen I. Northfolk Southern* btw nice joke xD

[@mikeday6908]

Nice! Ha!

[@BlueRailz]

Don't put Centerbeam in the front

[@CPWindsorsub]

Don't put empty cars up front in general.

[@Levelworm]

@@CPWindsorsub Just curious, is it because they are too close to the engine and not heavy enough? And the heavier ones behind will kind of squeeze them?

[@CPWindsorsub]

@@Levelworm Yeah the heavy cars behind and the locomotives in front of the empties act like anchors. When going around curves the heavy cars/locos on either end make the lighter cars lift off the rails and attempt to to go in a straight line instead of around the turn. That's why the term is straightlining.

[@Levelworm]

@@CPWindsorsub Ah that makes sense, thank you!

[@hifijohn]

After 200 years of railroading in america you think these guys would learn.

[@bigboy4384]

Ok, I'm going to have to explain to everyone about the dangers of putting empty cars up front.

[@TheSjuris]

267 empties, 15 full cars and no helpers.

[@CSX4772]

Someone is going to get fired...

[@bigboy4384]

If you have a voice and are against Precision Railroading, speak out. People are going to die. Imagine if that CSX freight in Wellington was loaded with crude oil. Imagine if Amtrak was passing by the freight when it derailed. If a higher operating ratio means higher safety, than it is worth it.

[@TheSjuris]

@@CSX4772 didnt last time

[@bigboy4384]

@@eastcoastrailproductions5559 Maybe I wasn't clear enough but yes you are correct. That should never happen. The fact that it happened twice in a month should indicate something is wrong

[@Railmovercom]

fairly broad curve that can create lateral forces on empty rail cars at the front-especially tippy ones like centerbeams

[@370H-SSV]

Malfunction Junction how does it Function?????

[@epiccsx]

So much for Norfolk Southern What's Your Function

[@cpzackproductions8821]

Sounds like Altoona needs a new yard master

[@MicahLongo]

35A originated at Enola

[@x412x4]

It’s not Altoona building that train

[@KCUnionStationTrains]

Lol the couple & the guy at 1:25. the couple gets up like the train is about to hit them 😂😂

[@westep4273]

Surprised this isn't Csx 😂

[@sparky107107]

the yard master should be fired. he does even know, don't put light weight cars at the front of a train.. twice now.

[@pennsylvaniamodelrailroad]

I had the exact same thought Sparky. You would think he would be EXTRA cautious after the first time.

[@JoelTurrell]

Perhaps he should be sued by his employer

[@WSOR6604]

@@JoelTurrell Seriously?

[@mikeday6908]

Depends on rules for train make up. Under 5500 tons on some RR there aren't any train make up restrictions other than hazmat placement. Never like empty anything on the head end.

[@Cpr1234]

Train: *derails* Couple: ight we're gonna head out

[@mansfielddepotconnecticutr1224]

Uh guys does this mean no burgers tonight?

[@fredfrederickson]

That couple on the bench wanted no part of that lol

[@victoriacyunczyk]

Penn Central lives on...

[@nyccrcsx]

Is penn central back again?😂

[@rogermolina1244]

Like a Britney Spears song........ Oops I Did It Again🤣🤣🤣

[@thomasboese3793]

OR, the kid on TV in the '80s; Steve something or another, Quote: "Did I do that?"

[@jordonfreeman166]

You mean Steve Urkel?

[@DaimosZ]

I see NS is trying to pay tribute to the Penn Central with its current rail operations

[@Denniss7420]

*Heritage* Operations to match their paint schemes :)

[@PannierLaw]

Man this is becoming the Death Valley of trains

[@beercommercial1]

Three empty centerbeam cars right at the front, pulling uphill on a notorious curve. What did they think was going to happen?

[@kurtwarner4585]

Oops!! Shouldn't the empty wood cars be put on the end of the train or stagger the empty cars throughout the train?

[@stephenroberts4895]

Yes!

[@pr111bprr6]

Must be flatlanders running a mountain railroad 😂

[@aphotographerfromcaliforni2661]

You know, I’ve learned this through my Lionel Train set Never set light empty freight cars at the front of a heavy consist; it increases the chance of a derailment and in this case, the train did end up derailing

[@nicollestallkamp3655]

Unless you want train schedules thrown out of whack, put empty cars at the rear of the train.

[@CardboardSliver]

Lemme fix this. Unless you want your train schedules thrown out of whack Put your lights cars in back.

[@colonelcactus2462]

Wasn’t this the problem with the F45? The heavy locomotives and light passenger cars as well as the locomotive weight being mostly in the back with the steam generator caused derailments.

[@nicollestallkamp3655]

@@colonelcactus2462 That was the SDP40F, the F45 was a freight locomotive.

[@brandonkoole655]

Who's the amateur putting these trains together!? Even on model railroads, heavy cars up front, light ones in back.

[@nowake]

Learned this one down on my Grandpa's layout in the basement when I was 9

[@CPWindsorsub]

Who's the idiot that keeps adding empties to the head end of these trains? Do the train masters decide how these trains are blocked, or do the crews decide when they make lifts from other yards? I'm assuming there's some sort of formula they use when calculating weight distribution, and what the optimal distribution is for the subdivision(s) the train is on.

[@mikeday6908]

I am sure there is a train make up, varies by subdivision and carrier. This train probably complied with restrictions or it wouldn't have left the yard.

[@rrboomboomer5325]

My pop, B&O Trainmaster......turning in his grave!

At 1:30 ..it's the elderly couple. THEY did it. They planned it , watched it to make sure it derailed , then tried to play it off like nothing happened. Probably on the old fellas bucket list or something..derail a train. "Martha if you love me you'll come with me to watch". Might have gotten the idea from the guy on The Addams Family. Didn't he have a fetish of blowing up trains and derailing them ?

[@samiam619]

Colorado Strong That was Gomez Addams.

[@GhoStrider-bg5ln]

If those lumber cars had gone all the way over, would it have caused a collision with th e other train that passed by short moments after? On that note, how that second train's team felt going by, like seeing someone broke down on the side of the freeway?

[@rickenbacker315]

They just want to get home. They don't really care much..

[@GhoStrider-bg5ln]

@@rickenbacker315 I guess so. Friday afternoon, I wanna get home too, but safe and in one piece, and without anyone else being hurt either

[@fox5news68]

My train after trying to run an auto rack on 18 inch radius curves.

[@dougslittlediesel]

Same as before. Light cars ahead of heavy cars and pushed em right off the tracks down grade. Double and triple trailer set ups always have the heavy trailer first. Lighter trailer on back.

[@cletrac12c72]

Other train going by, " Ha! look at those rookies!"

[@michaelharman7823]

I think the centerbeams cars are too light with heavier cars behind them actually being pulled towards the center of the circle, I noticed that being right behind the engines before it derailed. It's OK if you are always going straight ahead but in a fairly sharp turn they will be torn lose from the track and pulled away from the track.

[@railyardfilms6491]

Are there Mario kart bananas on ns hsc causeing mayham with from

[@taoskid8769]

Empty centerbeams behind all that power? Thats trouble waiting to happen.

[@moyomongoose1980]

When I first starting viewing this video, I had guessed it would be those empty building material cars that would derail. Enough heavier cars to require three locomotives to pull them, and those lighter weight building material cars being directly behind the locomotives, I'd say the resistance of the rest of the cars on a sharp curve pulled those material carriers off toward the inside of the curve.

[@scottfw7169]

Yep. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to assemble a train. But maybe they ought to hire a few anyway.

[@michaelbujaki2462]

You're right, but they're called centerbeam flatcars. Why it's centerbeam and not centertruss I have no idea.

[@ZaphodTHEBeeblebrox]

so! im a big dumbie, what exactly are the center beams thats everyone is commenting about? and how do they factor into the derailments? thank you in advance!

[@ZaphodTHEBeeblebrox]

Destroya oh that makes sense! thank you for explaining it to me, i appreciate it!

[@albertcyphers1532]

I wonder if flange greasers might make a difference?

[@glendasmilesalot2959]

Wow! The reaction of the couple is scary. I often wonder what I would do if I saw a derailment in person. Glad everyone is ok! Thanks for posting this @Virtual Railfan!

[@AmtrakStop14]

Stringlined ‘em. Empty centerbeams right behind the locomotives....

[@loganbaileysfunwithtrains606]

From both an efficiency standpoint and a physics stand point, why would you put the lightest load on the front while going up a grade?

[@BenWillKing]

And both derailments involved yellow centerbeam flats at the front. Gotta be something defective with the yellow ones. 😏

[@dustyj4037]

Yellow is the lightest of all the colors. Red or green is heavier and therefore the derailment might not of happened

[@brownpcsuncedu]

Maybe they didn't have enough graffiti? All the extra weight of that spray paint, y'know... ;-)

[@emeraldzebra9360]

Why would you pull such light cars at the front? Sure if you can't switch them around you have no choice but did they never play with a trainset? We used to have that issue all the time!

[@subgod]

A good question to ask during the interview process for that job would be: have you ever owned or operated a miniature railroad? Would help avoid dumb mistakes like this... 👍

[@cody8217]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard...

[@C3r39att1]

Aren't train crews allowed to refuse trains, or does only locomotives? I would've taken one look at that lash up with the centerbeams up front and said "no f"n way!"

[@dgwachtel]

Just have an HO test track with sharp curves for testing my refurbished power and cars. The other day I put heavy cars in the back of a consist in error and string lined something like ten of the fifteen cars in the consist, putting them on their sides on the inside of the curve. I was going slow too. It looked like the last H.C. derailment only with different freight cars. The same physics apply! Amazing that they made that mistake twice in three weeks. -Dave

[@donnebes9421]

dgwachtel you retired ns?

[@dgwachtel]

Nope. I've encountered the sting lining several times modelling HO though. Worked as a research assistant and then a software developer in R&D. Just getting back into railroad modelling over the last few years, resuming from where I left off as a teenager. My uncle was a conductor for NYC though. Didn't see much of him growing up. Alas no free train/cab rides 🙁 My elementary school was located adjacent to a large rail yard. All the kids were into trains. There was a nearby bridge over the yard where many of us went to train watch. Putting coins on a rail was common practice in those days as well. - Dave

[@eastamericantrains589]

Did this train have helpers?

[@OpenRoader]

OK, I'm no engineer, but I know from having model trains since I was 5 that YOU CAN'T PUT THE LIGHT CARS AT THE FRONT IN A TIGHT CORNER!!!!!

[@mikegross6107]

Wow, didn't realize there were so many train authorities out there! You guys need to get back with the railroad companies and give them a hand!

[@anb7408]

It actually doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. But it does take someone with brains, which NS is not accustomed to hiring……as evident by this video.

[@bobcrawford5083]

why would they have empty light cars right behind all that torque ?

[@amandagreen1974]

Well this evening l am going to go check that sinkhole under RR marker 390 located in Sylacauga Alabama. It is growing. Last weekend a highway was shut down here in Sylacauga due to a 12-14 ft Sinkhole.

[@sleepyjay2664]

Anyone know if the center beams from the previous derailment are still sitting in the woods? Watched the current feed for awhile, but the camera didn't pan in that direction.

[@derail14]

i know some west coast rr ,s required 5 loads on the head end to prevent this sort of thing, in rail talk its called string lining.

[@jenniferwolf1113]

What happened to the Cam at this site? It's like they just took it down.

[@geoffreylee5199]

Who is putting these trains together? Accountants?

[@achimgazelle3641]

It is not possible to couple light wagons behind the locomotives and thus pull a long heavy train. At the latest in a narrow radius the light wagons will fall over. how can you create such a train constellation.

[@gerikucinski2427]

I almost have to wonder if they changed a key person or two recently in the yard (retirement, etc) and the new person still hasn’t quite figured it out.

[@stephenhunter70]

It could also be that this not putting empty flats etc at the front is "old school" stuff that the yard managers etc might not be aware of. The other thing is it might be happening to "save time" but removing them from the train with the trains locos when they arrive at their destination.

[@NoFear2473651]

Dude really!? That's why you dont put center beams in the front!

[@mikeday6908]

Without seeing the train list, not sure if the cars directly behind the center beams are loaded or empty. Edit* Having just read the story link it appears the 6 cars that derailed were empty.

[@patrickoguinn4553]

Empty centerbeams on the headend and all that power will try to straighten out the curve everytime.

[@daviddowling9830]

The engineers should not start their train when they see the consist is not distributed properly

[@CPWindsorsub]

They might not be able to make that call. I would think it's the train master's or yard master's job at the originating yard to make sure the train is distributed properly. Helper sets coming out of sync from the head-end or vice versa can also cause this but if that was the case here there would be a good chance everything that was on the curve would have derailed.

[@colossusofclout727]

CPWindsorsub Actually it wouldn’t be the Yardmasters fault because it’s the Conductors responsibility to make sure the train make up is correct! And all the weight of the cars are in order.

[@ohboy2592]

colossus of clout wrong. It’s not the conductors responsible for checking the placement of any cars other than those that have restrictions. Empty center beams are not restricted cars.

[@rickenbacker315]

@@ohboy2592 Exactly right. The conductor makes sure the head 6 cars are in compliance as far as hazard placement.

[@robertreynolds7049]

PSR at its best!!!! They covered up a derailment already.... NS LAID OFF of a bunch of people that maintain these locomotives passing through here. Reported record profits 2 days after. Not enough people to run a major shop now. Rushing people around on top of it... This is what you get. PSR IS A MONEY GRAB FOR STOCKHOLDERS. THEY REDUCE THE WORKFORCE THAT MAINTAIN THE ENGINES- THEN TRY TO COVER UP THE RESULTS. Safety for the employees and the public is no concern anymore.

[@Madhuntr]

workers who gotta rescue those waggons will go "WE JUST CLEANED UP THE LAST ONE!"

[@WayneEdwardsVoiceovers]

Gheee! You'd think that they would have figured it out the last time this happened that those empty Center Beam cars could be a problem..

[@Stargaze.]

what is wrong with the track?. Are the crew is noob at installing the rails?

[@TheBrickGuy7939]

Light wagons at the back!

[@carrieslantern9224]

Well this truly suck's to see. Hopefully everyone is ok. Is it bad track ? Not enough engine power ? Or the way they arrange the car's ? Or a combination of multiple issues ?

[@jeffreyhueseman7061]

It's how they arranged the cars

[@seancarter2455]

How that keep happening

[@magmajctaz1405]

I see two possible causes explained in the comments here. Putting empties at the front of the train, as this will lead to "straightlining" or "stringlining". Another possible cause is center beams at the front, "loaded" or "unloaded". I don't see an explanation for this. What's wrong with center beams?

[@Leland45028]

Empty they are too light thats all.

[@williamritter5741]

Empties at the front. Who built this train?

[@MrMark85044]

hello rail yard, who put that train together. Joe raise his hand. Hey, dont you also work for RJ Corman? Maybe!!!!!

[@dennismanbook]

Looks like an string line type of derailment having the lighter empty cars going off track and heavier cars likely at the back of train. That also happens with model and toy trains when going around tight curves whenever heavier cars are at the back and light cars up front.

[@ernierobinson4892]

I thought lighter freight cars always stay in the back to distribute to overall weight so the gravity won't force it hard back and forth when couplers slack Am I saying this correct? Correct me if I'm wrong lol

[@rickenbacker315]

In a perfect world, that would seem logical. Unfortunately, when trains are blocked at the yard, the only thing they care about is not having class 2 dangerous cars within the first 5 from the head end. Other than that, they try to make up the train by station order, or close to it. They might double 6 or 7 tracks together to build this train. loads and empties scattered throughout. When they get to the next yard, they might set out the head 70 cars and pick up another 70 cars.

[@TRARP05]

Again?

[@JoblyJohnny]

Why did I just got an ad on how to clean blood of an axe

[@thetrainchannel5125]

I'm going through there on an Amtrak but NOPE!

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

Amtrak sucks.

[@GeorgeJansen]

Who will get fired? Who's at fault?

[@williamlenoch1526]

I've heard doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of....well, NS!

[@ThatBoyWithAJeepLibertyRenegad]

You have got to be kidding me. There are way to many derailments going on rn and I don't know why.

[@ekt8750]

Idiot yard masters not putting trains together correctly

[@ThatBoyWithAJeepLibertyRenegad]

@@ekt8750 yep. That's why you put emptyies on back so if you lose lighter cars you won't lose half the dang train with it

[@CMOTrains783]

PSR

[@ThatBoyWithAJeepLibertyRenegad]

@@CMOTrains783 what do u mean by that?

[@CPWindsorsub]

@@ThatBoyWithAJeepLibertyRenegad With NS's use of helpers here putting them on the back might not be the best place for them either. Somewhere in the middle of the train between lighter loaded cars.

[@ChakatNightspark]

YAY for a Safe Rerailment

[@nikkitrucking]

Same way when my train model got derailment. Always when a light cars goes at the front.

[@mauroshaddai3332]

wow awesome derailment greetings from Mexico 🇲🇽 👋

[@jjaagg5050]

Maybe all center beam cars should be at the end of the train. The empty ones at least.

[@austinmatthews4450]

how did that train derailed?