Secret Amethyst Units You're Not Allowed To Recruit

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[@exterminator6629]

to anyone wondering, a modder seems to have already got these bad boys in the game and fixed them so that they benefit from redline and nuln upgrades. Mod is called "Secrets of the Amethyst - Repeaters & Blunderbusses." Maybe give the author some love.

[@robertc.5558]

If anything all they have to do is thumbs up the mod. Least the community can do.

[@alwaysangron2662]

i believe they removed them

[@BENJAMOSAURUS]

They didn't make it into the game because GW, at the last moment, basically told CA to scrap them for some reason.

[@I2dios8]

Sounds like a typical GW move.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

GW being petty and dumb as usual

[@masaheimoi]

Perhaps they couldn't think for interesting upgrades in amethyst armory and didn't want to use same as the amethyst ironsides we got?

[@daimpthing]

@@masaheimoi They could have kept it with the regular amethyst ironsides and no one would have complained

[@BENJAMOSAURUS]

@@daimpthing Back when the trailers appeared, a CA dev had this to say: "Some of you spotted Ironsides with non-regulation repeater handguns in our Thrones of Decay announce trailer. This footage was captured on an in-development version of the game. However, in order to remain as authentic to the world of Warhammer as possible, the Nuln Ironsides at release will be issued with master-wrought handguns, plate armour, and highly-drilled firing discipline."

[@anteep4900]

Lol reminds me when Kislev had one of their heroes show as a goblin. fcking goblins man they cant keep getting away with it

[@nocturnaljoe9543]

Deep down you know... every chad is a goblin.

[@TheCheat_1337]

And how do we know that these guys aren't secretly Gobbos wearing human skin as a disguise? Sugar...in water.

[@RimshotKiller]

@@TheCheat_1337 Karl, your skin is hanging off your bones...

[@martinlysy]

Its placeholder portrait, so everytime there is missing portrait, goblin it is.

[@quint3ssent1a]

Poster above is a goblin ^^^

[@0NoName9]

Watch how CA will release a hotfix tomorrow completely removing any trace of these units from the game files. Edit: fucking called it. Not exactly the next day, but still. Do you hear the voices too?

[@hoomanlel5149]

Honestly not a bad idea less files for the game to not bload

[@bjorn-falkoandreas9472]

Having non-sanctioned units hidden in the game files may be spicier than the Hot Coffee incident. When GW is a tad miffed they might lead a waaagh to Horsham.

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

I guess you could theoretically copy the files in question, no?

[@onz6969]

​@@bjorn-falkoandreas9472they have goblin card

[@Jaann1919]

Im pretty sure they did this on purpose, to get around GW fuckery

[@tech-heresyandotherstuff8053]

"not lore-friendly" As if Black Sun artillery is

[@arandomfawn5289]

It is, what a glorious sight it is

[@MrParadux]

Games Workshop is very weird about these things. The developer posts seemed to suggest that it was a Games Workshop decision to prohibit the Repeater variantes for whatever reason.

[@Weberkooks]

@@MrParaduxwe know that but why are purple sun hellstorms allowed. how are they "lore friendly"

[@nightrunnerks]

​@@Weberkooks because elspeth is a death wizard bald goth gf that likes guns. How is it not lore friendly?

[@spartan117407]

@@Weberkooks I guess that there is a difference between creating something new only for the game and creating something new but that could be use in another IP like for freeguild in AOS, it GW move to do that but they hate sharing Idea between their own IP

[@AlexandrZaytsevet]

Oh yeah, I remember this. Technically foot handgunners with Outrider repeaters count as a unique unit for some Age of Sigmar nonsense, so GW gave a flat refusal to CA who wanted to have the proper Ironsides in-game, which is why they now have regular single-shot rifles instead. These might be some programmer's way of saving the work they did on the units they wanted to make.

[@Retrosicotte]

GW's whole "we must pretend as if AoS came up with all this stuff if it's in it" mantra is so rotten it's eviscerated TOW's faction list.

[@darthtom100]

​​@@RetrosicotteI don't follow TOW, what happened there?

[@teoarrk]

@@darthtom100 Skaven likely won't turn up in TOW because they're tied to AoS instead. GW don't want you to be able to run your miniatures in multiple different settings so you will be forced to buy a new army for each.

[@NervousCelery]

But Ironsides didn't have repeaters on the tabletop, so we have proper Ironsides.

[@Retrosicotte]

@@darthtom100 GW cut half the factions from the game (such a Skaven, Vampire Counts, Dark Elves etc) because they want people to think they're an AoS original.

[@hoomanlel5149]

Modders: Ferb I know what are we gonna do today

[@washedupazir2873]

Theres been a mod with them since they came out xd

[@samfire3067]

They already did with The base unit. But no ametyst for now.

[@vigneshwars1331]

@@samfire3067 mod name plz

[@genericnpc7865]

those crazy goblins- not only seems they have pledged allegiance to the Empire, they have learned to handle rifles as in no time

[@MrEricoze]

Wulfrik: Hey Elspeth! Some gobbos in your army. You've always been weird. Elspeth: PLOT TWIST! It’s a bunch of AC-130s! Wulfrik: ( ˶°ㅁ°) !!

[@michaelfetter4541]

Yeah, I can see why the ironside repeaters didn't get released. Human rattling guns with 53 melee attack and 44 defense.

[@Diego000793]

Blunderbuss peaked at shogun 2 with the otomo clan

[@prosski7949]

Now, if only they didn't slowly whittle themself down with friendly fire...

[@AdamSchadow]

@@prosski7949 Honestly with the reliability of such weapons at a time it might as well just be simulating the guns exploding in their hands

[@legio1942]

I've read this as "Shotgun 2".

[@AdamSchadow]

@@legio1942 It might as well have been since the blunderbuss cav was just better than anything else.

[@axyramariel7557]

"You know, we're adding Nuln now, and I'm wondering - let's make Nuln's special units significantly different from the regular ones? There are regular Ironsides, but will Nuln's Ironsides have multi-barreled guns? And the empire has Grenadiers on horses, but let's make Nuln's version have shotguns? More different units in essence - more interest? And let's make them really powerful - but very expensive to hire, for example, using the same schemes. - Are you an idiot? Of course not! We won't confuse players with different units - they will be clones of regular ones, but with slightly tweaked stats. But the cost, yes, we will make it exorbitant."

[@Jaann1919]

We got Repeater Ironsides in the trailer and they were planned for the base variant as well, we have the unit card art for them

[@dernium]

Honestly those repeaters fire like ratling guns, crazy to see them in action!

[@MrGamingking1234]

I'll never understand why content like this gets cut out, surely the more content the better?

[@GeraltofRivia22]

GW

[@tehchief1]

@@GeraltofRivia22Great Weapons

[@Igelme]

Balancing issues, more workload, and so on, but most importantly: because they don't have to do it. Once they get past the threshold of "this is low of an amount of new units to add" into the "this is enough new units" they have literally 0 motivation to add more other than passion/love, which is clear they don't have. And this is not a jab at them, total warhammer is a great game, but it's clear it's a corporate product and not a passion project.

[@tehchief1]

@@Igelme im 100% sure its not CA’s fault, the other Amethyst units were not advertised as new units in the DLC, they were just additional units added with Elspeth’s mechanic cuz they know its gonna be cool

[@fedyx1544]

It's blatantly obvious that the repeater ironsides never got the permission from GW to be in the game. They own the IP, it's not like CA is free to do whatever they want and add whatever units. Most likely, GW doesn't wanna offer repeaters and blundebuss minis or even rules.

[@1911skippy]

It's always a good day when you get to watch a bunch of chaos cultists run face-first into a bunch of Las rifles... wait, which game am I watching again?

[@Eliwood29]

those repeaters are almost ratling guns but with way higher damage output lol

[@Jaann1919]

Ratling guns but actually good units

[@CJ-wh7ik]

Ratling guns but not totally useless

[@arthanor9631]

Wouldn't be surprised if that's just left there because they were built for the trailer and the dev(s) didn't want their work to go to waste. Now that they're found, a mod to safeguard them and make them recruitable would be really easy to make. Pretty sure it'll popup in the workshop this weekend.

[@cleshsesh6155]

There is already regular Ironsides with repeater rifles, I’ve played with it for a while

[@mustardt1ger]

Yeah hopefully they’ll find some cool art to use for the unit card too I doubt GW has any illustrations of them but maybe something similar anything but the damn goblins lmao

[@SpaceMarine4040]

That mod has been out since april 30th for the repeater rifle.

[@benlaster874]

there are bear cav cav and tsar guard variants from the tutorial that are not available in the main campaign for kislev thats one, its realy just bears with shields and tsar guard/armored kossars with spears

[@stevencummins4753]

Those handguns are straight out of the Markus Kruber arsenal, since learning of his bretonnian heritage, he believes that letting an imperial army borrow from his personal stash is below his station and unbecoming of a grail knight

[@ToriniusReal]

We need the ubersreik 5 as legendary heros

[@olafthemoose9413]

​@@ToriniusRealthey kinda sorta are

[@TrapsterJ]

Legend: reveals a core problem in the game CA either: fixes it the day after Or Removes all trace of it as if it never happened

[@Autechltd]

Legend of Total War, playing a legended unit. 40k players will get the reference.

[@TheMagicalPinata]

Legends was a thing in AoS before 40k IIRC. In the first edition, when GHB came out, a bunch of Fantasy units went to legends.

[@ML-old]

Not only this took away the units, but also the rollback versions, so fml. I didn't even care about the units, but I guess I'll be taking a break now until mods get updated... this really hurt.

[@Darkmanmeister]

Getting flashbacks to the dunderbuss cavalry from shogun 2 with this blunderbuss cav.

[@aaronlow6322]

The current Amethyst Outriders are definitely more powerful than these Blunderbuss ones, but more skewed toward wiping out large masses of entities. They usually get as many kills and as much value as an Amethyst Helstorm Rocket Battery. Even though they can't kill single entities as quickly, their shots still do significant damage to them, greatly rebuff their speed, they have the ammo to spare, and there are other units in the army (like Ironsides) which can kill single entities.

[@tylerhunt-smith535]

Recreating the battle of Rourke's Drift over here. Turns out as long as you've got bullets, you can hold off spears indefinitely!

[@Peaty1992]

Lore Accurate Storm Troopers

[@strangestecho5088]

Legend apparently hasn't noticed how incredibly OP Amethyst Hellstorms are in sieges.

[@Pucukax]

CA be like: "Yeah let's not add the Death Korps of Krieg just yet."

[@hailalexander93]

This battle reminded me of when you would fight the natives in Empire with the British or the French, just a total slaughter.

[@barker505]

This was like watching a Fall of the Samurai battle. Absolutely brutal

[@Alej0xXx]

As someone already said here, THEY ARE LORE FRIENDLY, but they were added as new units of Age of Sigmar now and GW forbid them from releasing them after they were worked on, hence why they exist on the files.

[@diazinth]

Missing out on the Amethyst Cav Legend? Two of them delete just about anything, AND can do so over a wall. And with a few rifle cav as cover, they don't really run out of ammo once you've spent schematics on the restock thing either. Two Amethyst cav, Three Rifle cav, a cannon (for towers) and a Master engineer can take any walled city.

[@davecolwell725]

Yeah the amethyst cav are I think my favorite amethyst unit in the game especially once they’ve got stalk and unstoppable. They’re even decent in melee if they get caught while you aren’t looking for a moment.

[@strangestecho5088]

Amethyst Hellstorms are even better at it.

[@davecolwell725]

You really gotta try the amethyst outriders with grenade launches when they have stalk and unspottavle and the boosted speed they’re insane! The best units in the amethyst roster imo better than any of the others except maybe the rocket battery but I prefer their reliability and power in battles. I won a lot of decisive defeats I had no reason winning some battles.

[@prosski7949]

Outriders now perform in a fairly similar way. Less damage per shot, less entities, tho. Legend actually had a doomstack with them, it ate four mid-late game chaos warrior armies without much trouble.

[@stiimuli]

Sure, their unit cards look like goblins but their models look like a bunch of guys named Kevin.

[@4rtoria]

Ironside repeaters single-handedly brought the empire from ww1 to the 21st century.

[@jonathanpriel5013]

RIP secret units

[@georgy5844]

Man we need to have these in the game. Would it be broken and op? Yes. But would it be really fun? Absolutely!

[@icaindianen]

Legend, the normal Amethyst Outriders do have grenade launchers, with increased range.

[@mitchellbrough1615]

Yeah I think the grenade ones might be better. Any blunderbusses in this game have an issue with shooting the edges of units, with the grenades you at least get some aoe damage

[@Henskelion]

@@mitchellbrough1615 The Amethyst Outriders are *ludicrously* strong. Two units of them will practically delete an infantry unit off the map with one combined volley.

[@mitchellbrough1615]

@@Henskelion yeah, I'm just saying I prefer the regular amethyst outsiders with the grenades to these with the blunderbusses. Although these infrastructure ones with the repeaters are ridiculous

[@strangestecho5088]

@@mitchellbrough1615 I guess Legend got bored too early to realize the full potential of the in-game Amethyst units. They're all S-tier. The Amethyst grenade launchers are arguably outclassed by the elector count variant, though.

[@manwithhair88]

I remember hearing that GW didn't want them included in the dlc, probably for lore reasons

[@Omertahun]

...aaaaand now all secret units are removed as of v5.2.6. CA DOES watch LoTW

[@damianspence]

Love Elspeth just looking menacingly at the Norscans as they walk to their deaths

[@woahistaken]

Love the showcase videos regardless of how the save file is set up, thanks Legend :)

[@Landrisslg]

Oh nice! A Fall of the Samurai video!

[@MichaelDavis-mk4me]

There is a secret chaos dwarf "experimental giga canon" and a whole bunch of others. You can just spawn them with the console commands mod. There are also a ton of "boss" enemies left over from Warhammer 1.

[@tobeylerone7205]

Appreciate they seemingly aknowledged authenticity as the reasoning for the removal, but my generous read is balance. My not generous read is it would instil an expectation for more units in future dlcs where they dont want to commit to the same level of content

[@Rayder2341]

GW abandoned OG warhammer once before, they shouldn't care so much about "authenticity" to this degree.

[@Garret007]

Now we need a mod to simply take them and give them a unit card, and make them affected by skills, the Wissenland foundry and techs and voila, fun times ahead!

[@theblackaphid2257]

There is a version of the dreadquake mortar, with the iron daemon AND the missile attached to it. However it takes some doing to get it to render in properly

[@zerk813]

Ahh yes figured this would happen sooner or later. GW pulling the carpet last min.

[@GutsOfRivia]

SFO have these guys by default it also has the regular Ironsides equipped with repeaters. The reason they didn't make it in is GW is really pissy with anything that isn't an engineer or out rider having a repeater that's why they also retroactively removed repeaters from war wagons.

[@AramGoat]

In case anyone hasn't said it, I appreciate the updated tier lists a lot and look forward to the next one.

[@contractslivid5118]

To be fair, these would do well as a regiment of renown unit, limited to one unit and expensive.

[@grimporpoise5554]

You Gettysburg'ed them Legend!

[@elronsinclair7847]

I think one of the devs wants to simulate what happens when you bring an AR-15 to a medieval fantasy setting.

[@SaltyRocksPew]

Blunderbuss cav probably didn't get added cause they're just not as good as grenade launcher cav if I had to guess. Similar range but less damage output to everything but flying targets. Repeating handguns probably because they didn't want to make a unit better than ratling guns which are literally supposed to be machine guns so in the end they just ended up with a slightly different flavor of handgunner that had shorter range than normal handguns.

[@Kilen_BE]

Could it be for modders, made by CA to let them play and custom these concepts that never reached release version ? Interesting… Or maybe it’s gonna be added in a future update like for 5.2, it would be cool if CA could add them at some point at least. Great that it was discovered, great job to the guy sending it. Hopefully we gonna have 2 new units sometime later…

[@YenConjuring]

Here to contribute towards your new Lamborghini fund

[@RevocerGM]

They actually look like some of the new Imperial Agents tabletop models

[@TheVoodooMaker]

You gotta love bolters

[@20985229147]

7:34 so that's how 40k Total War will look like huh

[@HiddenEvilStudios]

Sartosan Lumberjacks, my beloved. Never forget.

[@Cleanrotknight456]

it also happened to me when I played as orcs, my lord has this gonlon icon too

[@voodoodummie]

I guess a way to balance them more, I would cut the armour piercing and ammo count of both units. Make them high burst damage units, but weak against armoured waves

[@Zquirrelthing]

i'm guessing GW told them to remove it, but CA decided to sneakily leave them in the game files

[@Deailon]

It reminded me of Shogun 2. Great memories :)

[@Rayder2341]

Empire version of ratling gunners

[@stayunknown3421]

this aged like fine wine

[@x0lopossum]

9:41 Repeater handguns in action, they're like rattling guns.

[@olafthemoose9413]

The only other unit I know about that you can't recruit (outside of the prologue) are the armored kossars with spears (but no shield or gun)

[@Valivali94]

Silly monke bringing axes to a gunfight

[@lastpsycopath]

10th century vikings meet 20th century machine gun line

[@Bluemangrup]

Imperial Ratling Gunners, yes -yes!

[@neox464]

More videos of historical total war titles please. I'll take anything at this point.

[@Digitize27]

If you don't use the amethyst Outriders, I recommend trying them out more, they are the grenade launcher variant and they absolutely shred units of infantry in basically a single good volley, and the fact you can give them all stalk makes them excellent at sniping enemy artillery. I consider them way higher priority than getting the ironsides variant into an army.

[@olafthemoose9413]

Do they get AP too (like the border men) or are they mainly base damage like the normal granade riders.

[@strangestecho5088]

@@olafthemoose9413 They mainly do base damage, so the Border Men are arguably better. They're still extremely good units and have other advantages like stalk and more melee potential, though.

[@lucasceccattolcc]

i think this units were part of the closed beta but games workshop said no but CA just didnt bother to delete the models from the game files

[@yukikochanchan3123]

Chaos Dwarfs: blunderbusses ,SHORT!?

[@martinlysy]

Since those repeaters and blunderbuses are so strong, i dont think its reasonable amount of ammo, like, 20x8 shots is 160 bullets + gunpowder for just one soldier, cant imagine also that he would load that gun that quickly. same for blunders, they use big ammount of weight for just one shot. I would personally balance them by 6/7 shots (48 bullets) and reduct blunders by one third.

[@Snowstrider0001]

I'm pretty sure the repeater ironsides were featured in the trailer and CA had to mention that the real ones wouldn't have repeaters. I think the outriders would probably be fine as-is, but the repeater Ironsides should probably be a RoR due to how strong they seem to be.

[@CJ-wh7ik]

Having them as ror seems like such a good idea. I hope they are implemented

[@thespearton4551]

SFO changes all Ironsides to have Repeaters so there's that. I think it adds the Blunderbusses too but I don't remember exactly.

[@darkomihajlovski3135]

Reminds of the kossars with spears in the prologue campaign if only yuri didn't take every spear with him on the expedition now kislve will never recover such technology

[@dickysatria7268]

Lol the enemy got SPLATOON'ed with ink

[@kocisz4163]

Dear god, i kinda understand scraping the reapeter rifle infantry. They basicly have M1 Garand's with this firepower

[@CJ-wh7ik]

I wish they were left as ror

[@uhohtetanus7130]

I KNEW I SAW A REPEATING HANDGUN UNIT IN ONE OF THE TRAILERS I THOUGHT I HAD GONE MAD

[@AnthroTsuneon]

Pretty sure they talked about it a lot right after the DLC release. Their reasoning was it breaking the gameplay identity of the Empire or some such

[@mitchell4745]

Dude you have to play the skaven mods with the new tanks and weapon teams. Doing a this is total war with Ikit and those units would be sooooo cool.

[@patrickvan6038]

One Medieval 2 post would fell so relieving

[@MrAdamArce]

It would be easy to balance these guys with normal variant. Normal variant gets basic range (120 i think), repeaters would get like 90 range with smaller model count because the guns are difficult to mass produce or something. Tada. Then minor tweaks from there

[@phantomthunder203]

We're pretty sure all the repeaters got scrapped bc of CA, no idea why they didnt do it with the blunderbuss, the current grenade launchers are good but the school upgrades focus more on melee

[@t4stingo]

The Ironsides where in the trailers. Hopefully they will be added

[@pimentinha1121]

Welcome back to napoleon total war

[@CasualFriedEggEnjoyer]

Proof positive that the Empire can make rattling guns

[@travishurst3919]

Turns out having an army with magic machine guns is pretty good.

[@tedhill5983]

Definitely suspect Games Workshop being involved in not putting them in.

[@axo4383]

WHAT THE FUCK LMAO!

[@doer105]

When ironside handgunners aren't already good enough, they really just need to add a repeater variant. Nasty

[@martinbudinsky8912]

Okay... I need them! I hope CA adds them later on (similarly to the new goblins and orks).

[@strangestecho5088]

Games Workshop allegedly told CA that they couldn't use them near the end of development cycle. That would explain why they were included in the trailer and the work was 95% completed, with the launch variant even using the Repeater animation.

[@martinbudinsky8912]

@@strangestecho5088 Thats a shame...

[@strakk]

Of course the most broken range unit in the game are just some random spear gobbos

[@IXIammerlock]

this is what Hernan Cortez must have felt in the 1500s

[@michaelbeasley9401]

Those are the same Ironsides that ride on the landship. They have repeaters also