Secret Shopping My Investment

[@kalebbruwer]

18:15 Linus violently bashes laptop against table. Repeatedly. Chapter title: "Linus Breaks Laptop by accident"

[@AfolSam]

at 18:25 you can barely hear "oh fuck" from someone

[@buttersquids]

To be fair, he didn't intend to break the laptop. So it is *technically* an accident

[@henriknutsson8500]

Thanks for bringing attention to the chapter names. They are quite amusing.

[@Adam-yg9xk]

"Linus Break Tips"

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

​@@AfolSamLMFAO i didn't catch that until you said it

[@BlakeHelms]

I’ve worked in IT Support before and lost count of the number of people that thought turning off the monitor was “rebooting” the computer. You ALWAYS have to ask. Also, a shocking number of people will just lie and say they did and they didn’t. Quick reboot and it fixes it. For whatever reason they would rather spend time on the phone than admit they didn’t try a reboot.

[@papasivir4241]

Yeah it's ridiculous. Most people still don't understand that the monitor is not the computer LOL unless you're using an iMac all-in-one.

[@DK-210]

Even worse some people have a mindset that they shouldn’t have to do ANY basic maintenance or troubleshooting at all.

[@loens2]

I have experienced similar situations where people confused rebooting and shutting down and starting again their Windows. Rebooting the computer actually fixed the proble. Most people don't know, that these are two different things and I can't blame them for it. I'm really happy that Linux doesn't do that kind of stuff.

[@rksaunders]

I frequently have users tell me they shutdown their laptop every day, yet when I check uptime it's at several days. They think closing the laptop lid is turning it off.

[@MoonBunnyLovers]

I had a text chat IT guy get really upset with me because he specifically told me to like hold the power button on a modem for 1 minute, steps I had done about 10 times prior to wasting my time with the "IT" guy, and I messaged him at 1 minute and he text screams that he says 1 full minute!!! Lol it was hilarious. I am pretty sure he figured out I was competent after that and calmed down. Oh and this was after I got chat hung up on by the same company because I had to walk out of the room for their instruction! I ended up cancelling their service... And calling back about 3 months later because they actually never cancelled it! I was PISSSSED! But I was kind to the employee cuz it wasn't HER fault the previous employee was stupid as rocks

[@Jollyroger1096]

Thought I'd let you guys know about my experience. I am the I.T. Director for a medical firm. I have been swapping out our HP X360 2 in 1 laptops for Frame Work DIY 13 laptops for the past year (45 so far). I have had a LOT of issues with customer support. Mostly mic/camera issues. Every time I've tried to get it fixed with their customer support, I get a new person and they want NEW photos of connections, the camera module and now the Mainboard. I finally got fed up after going back and forth for over a year and just purchased new mic/camera modules myself to fix the 4 laptops that have had bad modules. Now I have two laptops that have bad mainboards and am dreading contacting customer support again. Would love to go over our experience with you completely.

[@wryd4sound]

I think Linus brings this up regarding the reddit thread that talks about Framework's poor B2B support in general

[@HorizzonCS]

Send them an email, they check those regularly

[@LeftJoystick]

Framework needs to send a couple representatives to Prusa to observe and learn how their Tech Support functions. Prusa support is S+ Tier.

[@davidmalaky]

Why not just get business class laptops? afaik x360 is consumer garbage, better shoot for Elitebook 840 or Latitude 54xx. In EU we have great experience with both HP and Dell support (we ofc pay for onsite NBD)

[@kushagraN]

​@@wryd4soundi don't know if framework sells extended support or not, but this might be a reason why big businesses purchase multi year full support for their fleet devices. My employer buys the laptops at pretty massive markup for these ectended warranty just so that they can ask OEMs to fix issues at employees homes or at the very least all their office buildings. And they literally swap them out once the support ends. Its still scummy the way hp & dell push general users to waste money but there are legit use cases and eventually framework will also improve...

[@micah8355]

So - We reached out to Framework to secure about 300 units to replace our aging Dell fleet back in Nov 2023. The level of confidence they inspired was shockingly low. Basically (and to their credit) they warned us that their business support was the same as their consumer support, except with a queue jumping preference. Dell has next business day support, and Framework couldn't promise that they could have a consistent SLA under 10 business days. And thats why I have 300 Dell latitudes we deployed this year. Until Framework ups their support game, big clients like myself (I have north of 2500 laptops across 2 companies) just won't consider them a viable option (even thought we WANT them so bad)

[@necuz]

To be fair, I doubt Dell is actually promising you anything either. Not when it comes to how quickly you'll have a laptop repaired, servers are another story because there you can pay for "mission critical" support. If they can't source the spare part you will still end up waiting weeks for a repair or a month for a replacement laptop. However, depending on your region, it's entirely possible that NBD turns out to be NBD for real in 90+% of cases.

[@hubertnnn]

Did you buy extended warranty? And financing? Ok, but jokes aside, Dell might be promising next day support but their support is terrible. At least framework is not lying to you.

[@gearheadtechnology]

@@hubertnnn Dell enterprise support is great. We have them at work and they will come on location and fix our laptops within the hour usually. But that's what you want when it comes to enterprise grade laptops, framework isn't enterprise grade, they are just consumer grade laptops that sit beyond the preorder hype train.

[@giornikitop5373]

@@necuz exactly. NBD doesn't mean much for consumer products, but depending on your region, you might get it for real.

[@imgreen4233]

@@gearheadtechnology 100%, had two laptops replaced next day, replaceable storage made it the easiest thing ever

[@GreatItami98]

Thats not Alex from 7 years ago, that's Shaggy.

[@artemisDev]

Undercover Shaggy

[@wiG5944]

Shout out to Natalie! she did a great job!

[@PancakesAndPunch]

@@wiG5944 I also like BlackPink, Natalie

[@jdrano2215]

Yeah nat

[@alexhuxley3355]

She'll be running Apple in a few years you wait and see

[@Oscar-xs9cv]

Spotting the white knight

[@SaltedCoffee400]

New LTT waifu?

[@collatedcopies]

21:10 This hits home ... I used to get so frustrated when tech support would ask me to repeat steps I’d already done. I couldn’t understand why they kept insisting and would question me like I was lying. But years later, when I worked in tech and had to help others out, I realized how important it is to walk people through everything and be very explicit (even about things you think are very obvious), even if it means going over the same things multiple times and questioning them. It might piss them off at first but the alternative (wasting hours troubleshooting with the assumption the customer did what you asked but actuallly didn't) is much worse! Tech support really tests your patience, empathy and humility imo.

[@noahflare6825]

💯

[@gaveintothedarkness]

True but it would be helpful if the tech support could incorporate that into their script so we know why they are going through the basics instead of treating us like dum dums. Something simple like "Im sure you've already tired most of this already, but we have to go through some really basic questions just to make sure it's not something super simple that was missed"

[@SyntheticFuture]

Did it for 8 years. It needs to mandatory for every human being to work in support for at least 1 year. It really opens your eyes to witness the levels of stupidity and aggression on display with customers.

[@OriginalNotFunny]

Once I saw an employee saying he did reinstall Chrome twice already and it didn't solve his performance issues on calls. When I asked him something specific about the reinstallation, he asked for a moment and actually did it, fixing the problem which was he was just opening Chrome.app from the .dmg file and not extracting to MacOS 🫠

[@eljuano28]

Have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in?

[@aditya.khapre]

10:23 Colour coding stuff would be a game changer. They can colour and pattern code male and female joints and connections for easier recognition. If they want the wires to go in certain places, they can colour code the path. And it won't be that hard too, since they "pre-assemble" the laptop before disassembling it for Shipping, the quality tester person can quickly with stencils just add the colour pattern code for each of the joints and connections.

[@raynjpg]

I like this idea.

[@LeftJoystick]

iirc, don't they already color-code the fasteners?

[@rossrudolph2134]

Good point 👍🏽

[@tienenaar2295]

@@aditya.khapre , colorcoding might be Nice but some people suffer from colorblindness. So matching a color with a vertaling shape would be necessary

[@XiaOmegaX]

@@tienenaar2295 Using a colorblind friendly set of colors should be a no-brainer in this change. They can include the usual diagrams for monochrome.

[@mircoxi]

I'm kinda disappointed to see that the QR code thing is still an issue - I bought a 13th Gen Intel from them last November, and had the same issue with it taking me to the 11th Gen page. The laptop itself is great, but along with the support issues, their main thing seems to be quality control - the subreddit for Framework has quite a few posts about stuff not working or being defective in some way, which is kind of disappointing, and it's getting hard to justify as teething pains for a startup at this point, considering the age of the company. On the bright side, this video did remind me I have a support request about dead pixels that I never got a reply to after sending the proof photos, so I guess I'll be chasing that up tonight!

[@_PITBOY]

YAY NATALIE ... not slow clap ... excited walrus, overly emphasized, gleeful smiley clap.

[@misatzu]

that's borderlining sarcasm lmao

[@Mikemk_]

18:48 Honestly? The computer breaking before the dongle is good advertising for the dongle.

[@andrewpazhookalayil]

@@Mikemk_ Linus hitting the framework hurt my feelings 😢

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

Shows nicely how durable the dongle is. I used to break those ones you had to put in pcmcia slots all the time, so rugged ethernet gets my vote even if ugly.

[@joshua_lee732]

To be fair show me a similar non solid statw machine that wouldn't freeze up after that kind of abuse?

[@pvshka]

@@joshua_lee732 he hit that pretty well. Reminds me of when I played Tekken back in the days 😂

[@sparkydoggo8691]

@@Mikemk_ i would want the dongle to break before the computer though. like really? you want to have to replace the computer before a cable?

[@ako79551]

5:00 great job Natalie!

Great Job Nathalie

[@zepppro8072]

Great Job Nathalie

[@somebodystolemygoddamncarr520]

Great job Natalie

[@bakutie]

job done great natalie

[@TAMAMO-VIRUS]

Great Natalie, job

[@yeetmeister6924]

My laptop arrived faulty (top cover incorrectly manufactured). The support here in europe was slow and thorough, but good. They asked questions and wanted a lot of pictures but finally decided to just send a new top cover. All in all it took a little under two weeks until i had the new top cover in hand. Definitely not the best, but far from the worst custom service experience I have had.

[@Hnkka]

Two weeks for new part? Thats kinda fast compared to services ive had with different companies, once it took month to receive new water pump for my car because the "new" one failed after 25k miles

[@TekuSPZ]

​@@HnkkaFrom my experience in Europe, specifically Czechia. If you have premium Lenovo laptop, which is what you have in price range of Framework 16 AMD, they repaired faulty motherboard and speakers under two weeks including shipping time to them and back. So it really depends and based on Czech law, not sure if European one, they only have 30 days for repair to complete, or ship you another device, or they HAVE TO return you money. It's pretty strict law here and no one is fucking around. Because they can't. There are some exceptions, like if they get permission from you, written and signed, they can overextend 30 days, but I think maximally to 120 days total, not more. And that's warranty you have on any device sold here for at least 2 years.

[@weirdguybr]

Now, for comparison - Lenovo support. The USB-C/charging port on my E14 started to fail; it is labeled as a "field replaceable unit" on their site if you dig enough, but it really isn't. Chat with support was about 20 minutes, at which point I had an RMA label and packing instructions. Total repair time was about a week, from their courier of choice picking the package at my place in Switzerland, to it arriving in the service center in Poland, being repaired, tested and shipped back. Personally I want Framework to succeed, because shipping a laptop 1500Km away just to repair a USB port is the definition of wasteful, but for now I'll wait (specially as they still dont sell to Switzerland).

[@yeetmeister6924]

@@Hnkka Yeah it was quite quick. But this was a very obvious error in manufacturing (one of the magnets was installed wrong way round so the bezel couldnt be installed). But it still took sending 7 emails in total (and around 20 pictures).

[@konsti219]

My Motherboard in my Framework 13 died after a few months of usage and this was also basically my experience. It took a few emails back and forth with various troubleshooting steps (some repetitions like in the video), but in the end I got a replacement. One thing that positively surprised me is that (as far as I could tell from the shipping label) they had me sent my broken motherboard to repair center here in Germany reusing the box the replacement came in. Shipping was of course covered by them. I am really happy to see that broken parts don't just get thrown away, but repaired by experts.

[@thoptercrew]

Natalie did really well! Elijah, at least walk the editor and let them out of the basement twice a day

[@weksauce]

The bezel cracked on 1/2 FWs. The trackpad has a known issue where it doesn't register clicks (but does register touches) on 1/2 FWs. The bezel replacement is like $10, so it was hella frustrating to be asked to take a video and upload it to google drive or something, just to get a $10 part that didn't install without cracking. The FW is really not for someone who needs their machine quickly, but it's really for everyone, because it's repairable, modular, maintainable, and good specs for the price. I'm going to upgrade the screen someday, instead of buying a new laptop. I'm going to buy more modules someday, instead of buying a new laptop. I'm going to replace the keyboard/trackpad as they break, and it's going to be cheap, quick, and easy, unlike with every big brand laptop. I'm going to upgrade the cpu/mobo someday, and I'll ONLY buy a drop-in cpu/mobo upgrade for a few hundreds dollars, instead of a new laptop for ~$1000ish. This is the way.

[@redderthanmisty6762]

While I didn't have any issues with the laptop itself, after a few months of use, the USB cable that came with it started fraying and peeling apart. I got in touch with customer support, who replied in less than a day to confirm the serial number of my power brick, and quickly sent a new cable that arrived in under a week. Compared to my experience with other vendors like Asus, where I had a similar issue, but with their proprietary power connector that took 8 months and sending away the laptop itself to get a replacement, this was unprecedented. Unfortunately, the replacement cable started fraying and peeling apart again within a couple months, but to my surprise, framework still got back to me quickly and replaced the new cable in under a week. The third cable started freying and splitting yet again after another couple months, after which point I said screw it and bought a second steamdeck power supply, as that was actually good enough to charge the laptop while under heavy load, and is still intact after nearly 2 years with my original. So from my personal experience, I had Great customer service, and an awesome laptop, but the included charging cable defo needs work to not be garbage.

[@adultshawarma]

mine is also fraying :(

[@alexlemna7456]

Mine too, though it took mine about 10 months to start fraying. I bought a new cable because I was buying some new expansion cards anyways, but if it happens again I'll be contacting customer support to see about a replacement.

[@robertdascoli949]

If framework doesn't have someone mining all of these comments, they're missing out on a bunch of r&D info for free.

[@SquintyGears]

​@@robertdascoli949 they obviously know about this stuff... It's literally in their customer support tickets. To OP: Personally I stopped getting their power brick after the first purchase. It's fine, aside from the cable's durability, but I saw it as another way to dodge the markup and save another 10~20$. It's just USB-PD, any 65W brick will work with any USB-C to C cable. And even a lower power birck if you're charging power off or not fully stressing it.

[@maxinedurand1314]

I had the same issue, assumed it was just a one-time problem and just got a new charger at Walmart for the sake of expediency. Other than that, my experience with Framework has been phenomenal.

[@mindpotato]

18:23 the silent "oh fuck" LOL

[@Jay-qs6jk]

XD

[@guihamelYT]

I was about to comment about Elijah's reaction at that moment... I have to admit, I love those moments where Linus is clearly having a great time mind torturing Elijah 🤣

[@Tkachuk753]

I came to the comments just to see how many people caught that as well hahah

[@OlivierCaron]

Nearly silent!

[@effeKtSVK]

The fact that it’s not censored is so much funnier hahahaha 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@-lolus-]

21:10 as a current tech support, I support this, users sometimes have negative iq 🤷‍♂. first thing you get told on a training is to not ask same question multiple times, second thing you get told is to asume user did not do shit/did it wrong

[@yekevin]

I second that! Some people try to do the most difficult things first when the solution is just a simple reboot. We can never underestimate the lack of ability to follow simple instructions.

[@Steamrick]

Yep - as someone working in tech support, the number of times that a user disregards some or all questions in a followup... In most recent memory, I asked to schedule a time to have a remote session - and in return I got a copy-paste of the original error message. 'Are you for real?'

[@eoi.n]

As someone in support, the user always lies, even if they don't know they are lying. The Uptime segment in the video is so true it hurts haha.

[@LordDragon1965]

As a first generation support tech (1985-1997) for 3 different PC manufacturers (the stories I can tell about "where's the any key"and the like would fill a volume) I can verify how badly users lie, even when they don't mean to. I recall the VP of product development for a major software publisher that has since been merged off the table that ordered 400 of our machines. When he got his demonstrator that I personally checked before it left our facility, it wouldn't boot. At the time we were still using power supplies that had a switch to convert from 240V to 120V, so I asked him to check to see if the switch flipped in shipment. He said "Let me turn on the light" and the machine booted. He had plugged into the switched outlet in his office.

[@cjude6189]

@@yekevin Same, I might be bias but in the current era of tiktok/social media, people had lost their ability to listen instruction to letter, young or old people. As a team leader, I literally have people to read the instruction out loud to the letter. Otherwise, they had tendency to read couple word and made up/assume the rest of the instruction to something else.

[@Merlinose]

Reading these comments there seem to be quite a few people who receive faulty laptopts that support has to fix. Seems like Framework should invest more in some Q&A.

[@Goodzikc]

To be fair (and as devils advocate) there is likely to be more of a bias towards people who have had issues, as especially on this video they are more likely to respond with their own stories than people who have gotten framework and everything went perfectly fine.

[@blackasthesky]

You mean QA?

[@4KingPoseidon]

18:26 ‘“oh fuck” shoutout Linus breaking the capture

[@misatzu]

Anyone else instantly thinking it was Bell?

[@matheusavila2688]

1:34 So, just a regular wallet?? incredible

[@Econcrafter]

Actually no. Its like a regular wallet but less useful

[@RegenTonnenEnte]

Still better than those ridge wallets

[@aliabdallah102]

No, an expensive regular wallet.

[@zayd162]

LOOOOL

[@glados5065]

Truly an innovation.

[@consumer_cam]

18:12 Linus: "I can't drop it, but I can smash it"

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

Did the same for their new water bottle lid, smashed old on desk, instantly shattered. The desk ended up dented from him bashing the new one which luke inspected and confirmed no damage to.

[@Metal_Maxine]

In the audio scam devices episode (the one with dan and dankpods) he just yeeted something cylindrical at the floor and it burst open. Dan - I think I like working for you.

[@pneumaofficial9581]

I love how independent LTT is from even their own investments to be able to come back and make critical reviews like this. Helps not only Framework improve their staffing / training, they can also get direct unbiased feedback from another company that wants them to succeed.

[@Thisandthat8908]

it's not an LTT investment. It's Linus personally.

[@turtles6283]

as far as i understood this is linuss personal investment

[@itskdog]

​@@turtles6283 it is, which is why they took the time to make it very clear with that very awkward exchange (of course Linus was the one to add that during script review) that he had no involvement in the video other than greenlighting and co-hosting.

[@bionicgeekgrrl]

Linus also co owns the entire lmg business with Yvonne, so his personal investments are important to know regardless. If it was say luke with the investment, it would be a little different for those reasons. Also speaking of luke, given he is effectively in charge of what systems the staff use at lmg, they don't use the framework laptops for reasons of cost but also because it seems a number of the staff prefer macbooks. Plus obviously there's the investment aspect, so it is doubly important that they evaluate them objectively in terms of business needs. While Linus of course has a framework laptops, his daily drive laptop is actually a qualcomm snapdragon x elite he liked it that much.

[@whistler9]

this was hardly critical, the whole video is contorting itself to praise them for every failure. they are frequently sending bad parts to customers, and to me support taking most of a week to agree to replace those parts is hardly 'knocking it out of the park'. not to mention they are getting instant responses while most of us normal users wait weeks for our turn, just to get wait a week between each email only to get a different support person and have to start the entire process over again with no resolution. some of us have gone LITERAL MONTHS without working laptops, so it is insulting to see them brush all these complaints under a rug and tells us it's all great.

[@davetreadwell]

1:24 oh bearded Linus how I miss thee 😢

[@TheBadBone23]

So hard to find a company that actually cares for the end user and not 100% focus on the profit...Kudos to Framework, I really hope they will create more budget friendly options for schools, for less fortunate countries etc.

[@Soguwe]

I've had an amazing experience with Framework Support. When the lower modules of my FW16 stood out a few millimeters and proved hazardous, they just sent over a new computer and told me to send over the old one after switching over all of my own components. The swap was flawless, only taking 10 minutes, they could reuse the hardware and it only took five days or so for it all to be over with. Even got another copy of all the pre-order goodies(well, order goodies. I ordered so late in the last batch my computer arrived basically in the same amount of time as a normal order would now) Only weird thing was that I got a new dude/dudette to talk to with literally every mail.

[@Soguwe]

And since I'm on Fedora, my OS just didn't give a fuck that the entire computer suddenly switched. Just went _guess this is my new home now_ and kept going

[@spacecadet2663]

I had the same issue but I didn't want to deal with support so I just bent them as flat as possible by hand. Probably not the right way to do it but it sure was fast!

[@papasivir4241]

That's actually pretty neat! ​@@Soguwe

[@BigTylt]

I also had a great experience with support. I bought the matte display a while back that happened to arrive broken. Support asked me to send pictures of the screen (presumably to check for user-induced damage), and then sent a new screen out without much hassle, and they even let me return the old screen after I received the new one.

[@sky.is.winning]

I'm still waiting on a reply from framework support for a ticket I submitted one month ago. And I sent a follow-up email 2 weeks ago. No initial reply, no nothing. I was very clear about the issue (I damaged one keyboard key), and I got the auto-generated email saying they received the ticket, so it definitely exists. I have used support before and they replied inside a few days, so I understand this must be an atypical experience but it just makes me wonder what happened? Should I submit another ticket? How can they discard both a ticket and a follow-up email?

[@Ikxi]

After two weeks yea

[@TheGinGear]

You may have sent the follow up email to the wrong spot, and it got lost to the void, or any number of things. I would definitely open up a new ticket.

[@pedrobettt]

I've experienced issues with Helpdesk systems occasionally losing tickets to the void, when I worked as a support tech. It's definitely something you can make another ticket about if no human has replied.

[@andrewalexander9508]

Agreeing with everyone else here. My guess is someone tried to assign it to a use or group, but instead it probably ended up in a group that is unused and un-monitored (void). It will probably get reviewed when someone decides to look for orphans (could be years considering they are a relatively small and newish company). They may work on the ticket then, but chances are the representative will either assume it's been resolved by this point. Or close the ticket rather than interface with an angry costumer that hasn't had a working laptop for months. Just open a new ticket. Maybe reference the previous ticket, but I'd just pretend you never created that one. But if you want to play up the angry user approach then you will want to reference it and the lack of support for 2 months.

[@Tekgnome.]

​​@@pedrobettt Working in help desk we went nearly 3 years before finding out tickets were going into a void. There's was a dashboard "bug" where if I had more than 20 tickets and my queue and added more without doing a response they wouldn't display. Basically the dashboard would only show opened/new tickets up to 20. After 20 only "opened" tickets would show. "New" tickets automatically change to "opened" when I reply initially to them, and adding a "new" ticket to my queue would send out an automated email that it's been assigned and I'm working on it. If I didn't reply when picking up the ticket it would still be assigned to me but no longer visible as the ticket status was stuck on "new". I had a lul for a month and finally churned down less than 20 revolving tickets and realized I had years old tickets hidden away. The ticket system hasn't been updated since 2011 or so, and while I'd like to blame it completely I also should have noticed.

[@Mithical]

My experience with my framework 13 was amazing. Still use it to this day since I got it 2 years ago. My boss bought the 16. Windows would crash constantly. Replaced ram and SSD since we got the diy one. We spent going back and forth with support for almost a year. My boss got fed up and I had to get really annoyed with their support to get the laptop returned and refunded. I'm still waiting for the shipping label which they said they would send me last week.

[@contramuffin5814]

Might be a windows issue instead of a hardware issue... I've had constant crashes on my Windows desktop until I dug into it and it turns out that one of my drivers was writing to bad memory addresses in kernelspace. Possibly due to a windows update. Deleted the driver, now I'm crash-free. Extremely annoying, but solvable with enough tech know-how

[@Mithical]

@@contramuffin5814 I would have thought the same, but multiple different SSDs. Windows 11 pro, windows 10 pro and Ubuntu all were having the same issue. The only time it didn't have an issue was when I was running the OS off of a USB drive like a Kali live disk of something which makes me think it's more of an issue with the SSD slot. To be honest I should have tested it with the 2nd SSD slot but didn't get a chance to as we are a small business managing IT for multiple other businesses and don't really have the time to sit there and diagnose IT issues on a machine that should be working out of the box.

[@papasivir4241]

I think if you're going to go all the way to getting a fully DIY laptop you should try Linux out man LOL certain Linux distributions are a lot better with driver related things than windows.

[@vipvip-tf9rw]

​@@contramuffin5814 was it driver by Microsoft or by 3rd party

[@Cuber-Nerd]

My twocents about framework after purchasing a framework 16 a month ago: I ordered the AMD framework 16 kit and assembled it without any issues. I decided to use it as a linux machine and installed Fedora via the official Framework Fedora install. Everything went smoothly and ran great. Simply because I wanted a few applications that weren't on Fedora, I swapped over to Ubuntu, again per frameworks installation and guides. Again everything worked great. The only negatives I have so far with it is that occasianally upon reboot, the trackpad stops working and requires another reboot to fix it, and that on occasion I get odd system crashes when running certain steam games, which I think is a Linux issue not a framework issue. TLDR: My framework 16 showed up quickly, assembled easily, functions properly, and runs well on both Ubuntu and Fedora Linux distros, with my only issue being the trackpad sometimes not working upon reboot.

[@Idonotwanthandle]

13:43 I still don't get why fake DIY version is cheaper. Like, I get why it would be cheaper is I buy some cheap RAM and SSD from third party, but thats not the case. You just get manually disassembled laptop with $100-200 discount.

[@blackasthesky]

You mean from the company's pov? Marketing. DIYing a laptop is a thing you can (almost) only get with framework.

[@grisu1934]

Watching this on my FW16 AND I LOVE IT I had one issue because I needed a fan replacements but the support just wanted a few vids/pics and then send the replacement and everything was fine since

[@Thorium90_]

Some things that I see that the laptop is really missing: 1. An option for a BIG touchpad, like on the razer blade. 2. Multi-port modules. You can't tell me it's impossible to fit 2 usb-A ports or an audio-jack+SD on a single expansion module. Some not as important but would be nice to have things: 3. Big speaker modules on each side of the keyboard would be cool, or an RGB keyboard option would be a nice option for some. 4. NVIDIA gpu option in addition to the current AMD one for the 16 laptop.

[@JJARCHIE]

Dual A doesnt fit , somebody made maasurements.

[@papasivir4241]

Number 4 is going to be impossible until Nvidia gets the stick out of their ass. Otherwise, all fair points.

[@blazewardog]

Nvidia is the reason #4 won't happen. They don't allow non-standard laptop GPU solutions.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

#4 would be much appreciated though, i agree. unfortunately, Nvidia is a lil bitch

[@egarcia1360]

@@JJARCHIE dual C (obviously at the cost of speed, but fine for e.g. peripherals)? A + C? A + 3.5mm? While 6 I/O ports isn't terrible, it can still be limiting, especially when one of those ports is your power in, although being able to swap them out as needed admittedly does largely make up for the lower maximum.

[@muffindealer9576]

The Ethernet dongle segment healed my soul.

[@benwu7980]

That was brutal, went way above and beyond.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

It destroyed mine, then fixed it right back up

[@youpikaii64]

nice vid - appreciated all the info and definately would consider looking into frameworks but i couldnt help but feel like there was a very slight but consistent bias in their favour - didnt affect the overall viewing experience but maybe something to consider in the future :D

[@xamindar]

17:35 You can 3D print a new case for that ethernet dongle that makes it flush with the bottom of the laptop. Someone has made the files for that.

[@qhartman]

@@xamindar tease

[@thibautsnoeijs]

I think it's more about the flushness with the side than the bottom

[@RugerEnthusiast]

Great work Natalie👍👍

[@lucythebrazen]

Oh yeah when my friend got her Framwork Laptop I spend like an hour trying to decypher those LED codes. Turns out everything was fine, but the display connector on the panel got a bit loose during shipping, Took me forever to find out

[@ryankien7401]

2:55 am i seriously supposed to believe that the plane travelled through europe instead of the pacific?? my immersion is ruined thanks linus

[@vipvip-tf9rw]

Planes don't travel though pacific on multiple factors

[@hufca]

I don't like how Framework laptops try to mimic Apple. I would buy one, if it had an option for physical touchpad buttons, better keyboard with separate Home, End, PgUp, PgDown keys, and regular arrow keys (not this ripoff with up and down half sized arrow keys). Those features are very useful for professional work such as programming, graphic design or CAD software. Because of that, I will stick to ThinkPads :)

[@Greenitthe]

Sad we ended up in the timeline where everyone mimics macbooks instead of thinkpads. Crazy they don't have a better keyboard layout

[@opposite342]

you'd have to rely on the community for that...

[@HamerReviews]

Great video; really enjoyed this, and insanely impartial despite the investment, bravo!

[@245trichlorophenate]

was looking forward to this since WAN show!

[@Waterbottle365]

Nice "oh f**k" there at 18:25

[@LinusLegoTech]

Linus investment, after that reddit user bought 150 laptops must have raised abit.

[@kanari-]

i became fungus after the scented candle.

[@PsytheZero]

Was it just me or was that the best segue in LTT history?

[@flashink6437]

One of the best ways to fix the problem of people trying to close the screen 10:00 is to add a film onto the display that peels off to protect the display and on this film add directions and reminders on how to properly install screens and where the magnets are.

[@timthefosterdad]

Yes, Elijah, the jokes Linus tried to make were just as bad as you thought they were.

[@darrenc8697]

only saw the start of the vid so far but I had bought a Framework laptop and interacting with customer support was completely fine. I was able to return the laptop purely because I just didn't want it anymore (no fault of the laptop, just that I probably didn't need such a nice laptop) without issues

[@gorlix]

you are SHITTING me

[@giornikitop5373]

@@gorlix i'm not an expert, but i believe he's being sarcastic.

[@LiamAB2000]

Seeing Linus’ hair slowly go back to Bringer as the days go along is what I live for.

[@CLASHONYT]

Honestly forgot about Bearded Linus 🧔

[@BBGOnYT]

18:24 Linus slams laptop Background worker: "Oh fuck"

[@leggysoft]

CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK Crashes, reboots, ok. It really is like an old ThinkPad.

[@illuminoeye_gaming]

the torch has been passed.

[@Blue-cq2hl]

I always love seeing people do things like this the first time on camera. Obvious you can't make it all camera friendly especially if it's not something someone does normally but I like seeing a real thing for these sorts of things For repeating support steps it's also easy for things to get lost too. I find this when talking to new people that it's easy for one or two things out of a list plus all the other stuff you're doing slips through and you ask or repeat a thing. Just another note besides 'first time they're asking for a thing'. It happens. I hate when they ask you to repeat EVERY basic step you've already said you did though. I had to go through this hell with windows activation after an upgrade. From being told flat out bs that was untrue (that the key doesn't follow upgrades despite being retail and converted to digital) to being asked to repeat every single basic step with every single support agent I talked to. That's a hellscape lol.

[@walking_sketon]

25:50 Happy ending!

[@AlexBogues]

I convinced our company to start ordering Frameworks. The first one came with a dent in the chasis. My boss emailed support then CC'd me for me to take it over. After following up twice with no response, I just gave up and accepted my framework with a dent. We are ordering more, I really love them, but support seems to be a BIG theme here.

[@williamk52]

why the fuck would i drop 40 bucks 40! on an ethernet that isn't flush? i could get a full hub with ethernet for 15. backend question did they reimburse framework for the display kit? cause if not thats fraud. last. asking if they turned it off and back on again might honestly fix like 98% of issues. i guarantee most people have no idea you need to reboot if you unplug display port cables.

[@zekkos8636]

@@williamk52 I mean you aren't getting a 2.5G Ethernet Dongle for 15. I personally think dongles are far worse than a little extra bulge on the side. Especially considering if you have to remove them anyway, every time you go to put away the device.

[@theronin2685]

2:54 Might not be bad with 6 days delivery time when it's flown across the Eurasian continent, the Atlantic, and the US/Canadian continent, instead of straight across the Pacific to Vancouver....

[@LinusTechTips]

Ahaha I noticed that during the video review, but didn't feel it was worth it to make the editor correct it - LS

[@rozorahk]

6 days to Vancouver from China is a tell that is was probably shipped via UPS, meaning the parcel stopped in Anchorage AK and Louisville KY before being flown to Richmond BC. There is no major hub for any express courier at YVR. There also shouldn't be. Vancouver is tiny on the world stage, Canada taxes carbon, and wages are exceptionally high. If the shipment was flown directly to YVR, it was would've been sent on an economy service that uses Canada Post or dragonfly for last-mile. In that case 6 days would be *very* fast.

[@ritwikism]

Actually it's very likely that's exactly how it was flown. Trans pacific air logistics is not as busy as you'd expect.

[@banepigeon]

5:00 let’s go Natalie!🥳

[@JerzyLasica]

Yeah, audio dongle is stupid. One usb c and audio is minimum every person on the planet needs. It doesn' t make sense to make you spend your limited dongle amount onmthose two.

[@t.j.heldman6937]

I think the audio dongle makes sense. It allows you to choose which side your audio port is on, which can be handy. I think an improvement that could be made is to put a USB-C port on the audio module. That way it's not JUST an audio port and it doesn't feel like such a waste of a slot.

[@jeschinstad]

For audio I tend to agree because it's a pretty robust connector. But it is also a connector that can fail pretty catastrophically because it's tethered to the user. But on the other hand, I think maybe Bluetooth is the primary for that as well now? In general, I think that replaceable connectors are really important for a product that should be replairable. A lot of people couldn't solder a minijack.

[@amaizen4817]

@@t.j.heldman6937 agreed, i was thinking the same thing

[@TecSanento]

Why aren't there combined dongles? I mean an audio jack isn't that big and also dual usb a should fit in those shouldn't it?

[@SquintyGears]

​@@jeschinstadeven on the 13 where it's "included" it's a daughterboard and fully replaceable. It just has a dedicated spot and doesn't take as much space as an expansion thingy. I think they probably checked the numbers on how many people say they really want the jack vs how much it's uses. Because we're post iPhone's great "courage" in this timeline. Almost everyone primarily uses bluetooth buds... The vocal minority can simply get the option that was specifically made for them.

[@electrohacker]

I unfortunately couldn't get a framework laptop mostly because of it's limited IO capability. While swappable IO is really cool, the fact is I prefer having the IO there and ready to go at all times and not needing to carry it around in a bag swapping it all the time. Plus the company I work for forced us to upgrade our work computers again giving me an opportunity to ask to purchase my Lenovo P15 gen2 which was only a year old for $100. Though with that thunderbolt docking infrastructure now in place from my Lenovo... maybe a framework is back in the cards.

[@DahPuffy]

3:54 idk if it's like this everywhere, but as someone that has worked with direct sale of electronics to customers for 7 years I very much disagree with saying that a "real" customer would be careful when unboxing. I'd say about 90% of the customers i have rip everything open and throws stuff away immediately. Like it has happened so many times that they return 1 hour after purchase asking for a return (on a working product) but they have already thrown away the box. Or them buying a USB-C cable ripping it open like crazy right in front of me and then suddenly being like "oh, i thought it was for iPhone" and expecting a return on it.

[@AnthonyFuller]

Wow! Your 16 has almost the same issue I have (mine is with the keyboard). I've been speaking with Framework Support today about it. Except it was not DOA, it was about 6 months after receiving. One entire line of the keyboard matrix randomly stopped working, along with other keys inconsistently working, or one key registering as 2 keys e.g. pressing "Backspace" also pressed "P". It has been escalated, so it's the waiting game.

[@pvshka]

Please update with a reply once there's a development on your part 🙏

[@Nelo390]

I have seen more examples of this in the FW discord. Seems to be common issue.

[@AceofTunes]

I convinced my partner to go with Framework for school (we are both in our 30s, I was about half a year into my new career post college when they went back to college in hopes of being able to find better work), anyway, the point is that they have a decent amount of knowledge around computers, built their own desktop prior to us meeting etc. They chose the DIY version for the savings They built their laptop and had a good time They have since commented that they have never felt so attached to a laptop before. By building it themself it made it personal and _theirs_ in a way that they don't normally experience Which I think is a pretty important note too, I plan to buy a Framework DIY the next time I am planning on getting a more truly portable laptop. Recently picked up a used gaming laptop for really cheap to use for now Sorry full ADHD ramble. The point is that I think the DIY has a benefit above the cost savings, being able to build it yourself connects you to it because *you* did this. I like that, I hope that they put that in their talking points at some point. I didn't really see anything about that feeling when we were browsing for my partner's laptop

[@isla2202]

Ew, gay

[@AceofTunes]

@@isla2202 🤣 very

[@sylvy16]

i was gonna say 'gay' but in like a positive way as a fellow lesbian, but i see someone already beat me to it in like the funniest most immature way possible

[@Jay-vm2fc]

omg im so early

[@Quarky_]

Their B2B team is quite apathetic. When I asked them in an enquiry what kind of support contracts they have for business customers, or if they have partners in my region, they didn't even understand my basic english question and responded "we are not interested in partnerships". And this was after escalating to someone higher up, so it's definitely not some clueless newbie.

[@baguette2117]

For my own experience. I got my own Framework prebuilt laptop in 2022 and it just failed to boot within 2 months. Which obviously it terrible. But once i get in touch with customer support they were great. I was getting same day responses with clear and understandable instructions. When i couldn't fix the issue on my end, they deemed it a bad mainboard and sent me a new one. Which fixed the issue and ive had no problems since.

[@williamlux376]

Good job Natalie 👍🏿👍🏿

[@Nigel-Mac]

12:06 We all saw that yawn buddy....

[@kartikay9276]

Elijah looks like Hughie from the boys

[@pvshka]

"Oi, Uwie!"

[@theyruinedyoutubeagain]

I think it's safe to say we're all passionately rooting for Framework, but they need to step their business side up. The CEO/founder might be a great engineer but he needs to figure out logistics and customer support too. Thankfully those are easier to learn than engineering, but he needs to actively give a fuck first.

[@IAmUrza]

I got the 8Bitdo controller because Linus said it had a good D-pad in a video. It does NOT. It registers infinite false diagonals when playing Celeste and similar games. Apparently this is something of a hidden defect that most reviewers miss when reviewing controllers and their D-pads.

[@justagoodminecraftplayer1540]

@@IAmUrza thanks for the info😄

[@Jan12700]

2:50 That is really fast with international shipping. My LTT Backpack took 3 weeks to get from you to me in germany.

[@Steamrick]

Can confirm. LTT store shipments can take a long time to get to Europe.

[@JerzyLasica]

I mean, regarding framework's instruction videos, they could put an overlay in words in the video for important things, like "you need to hear a click"

[@lukewelken8968]

I had a similar issue with a client during troubleshooting i requested the client reboot the equipment, i sent fully detailed steps with detailed descriptions and photos. I see the uptime to be several days after he tells me its been rebooted twice. I then ask for a photo of the power supply. He then tells me he does not know what that is. Once again send photos and once he sends me the picture i ask him to unplug it for 2 min. And what do you know issue resolved.

[@tempestkaiju]

My Framework 16 batch 1 prebuilt was DOA and would not turn on. I had to argue with them and threaten to return it to get them to ship me a new one. They wanted to send me parts and have me try different ram and I wasn't about to do that with a brand new prebuilt and tested unit. I feel I already went above and beyond for a prebuilt unit by swapping the ram around and reseating everything. There was a reason I paid the premium to not put it together. I was also so early that the batch 1 didn't have the RGB macro pads yet. They ended up shipping it to me later but the RMA unit had them included so I ended up with 2. I contacted them to let them know they accidently sent me 2 and there were quite upset and their attitude was I was trying to defraud them. Overall it wasn't pleasant but I love the laptop.

[@RicanSamurai]

I got a Framework 13 several months ago, and didn't have any issues with the installation. I have, however, had some issues with the wifi connectivity on the AMD variant running Ubuntu. This seems to be a known issue with 5G networks per their forums, but for most situations I'm not seeing the issue. Overall happy with my purchase.

[@jskemp4]

I’m glad you’re looking into your own investments. Calling them out could actually makes them look better. Now I gotta watch this video and see if you actually do! Edit after watching: Props to Framework for the speed of resolving the issue. But LTT was not in my opinion unbiased. Natalie gets a 10/10 she’s great! LTT did a good job calling out all issues (even small things) AT FIRST. Most were very easy for Framework to fix (like updating QR codes). But to me there were major red flags on the second laptop… if LTT reviewed a different brand that had disconnected parts, AND broken hardware they would absolutely make a huge issue out of it!

[@ernestoyepez5103]

Great work from Natalie. I do have a question Does she get to keep it?

[@tonydelamancha5513]

spoilers, they’re giving it to the original complaint filer

[@Steamrick]

Why would she get to keep it?

[@SoraIroNaKISEKI]

Next time try using US addresses. I think companies are aware to be careful for any order shipping to Vancouver area.

[@Steamrick]

You do know that Vancouver is a major city, right? I can guarantee you that no company has a 'treat support calls from the greater Vancouver area as priority' policy.

[@cobylax33]

@@Steamrick Plus only one device even went to Vancouver. The other one was shipped to Ontario.

[@SoraIroNaKISEKI]

@@Steamrick Chill, just meant to be a meme as Linus has done many secret shoppings. And no offense, but I don’t really consider Vancouver is a major city after spending half of my life in a 18M pop megacity. Just different perspective.

[@Steamrick]

@@SoraIroNaKISEKI Whether I've lived most of my life in a 160k pop town or a 9M pop megatropolis is also a matter of perspective and there's genuine arguments for the latter. So maybe just stick to the definition? A couple hundred thousand people are a great anonymizer, no need to go into the millions or billions.

[@SoraIroNaKISEKI]

@@Steamrick​​⁠I think we agreed on disagree. Either way, it probably doesn’t matter. My OG post wasn’t meant to be saying the companies are actually giving LTT a priority care etc. More like a meme or a joke. Guess I just don’t know how to write it in a humor way.

[@Orbitdecay]

I also had a horrible experience from support. While responsive, I basically got a massive run around (including getting an entirely new laptop) because the AMD firmware wasn't baked and constantly crashing. I assume this was because no one was willing to admit to the firmware issues that weren't fixed until 3.05. So I spent ~5 months wasting time with the support team instead of just having a working laptop. Edit: I ended up keeping my FW 13. I do like the device, but the company needs to grow before I can recommend the product to the average user.

[@pietkrobot5076]

I sadly didn't have that much of a good experience myself with framework. I love the mission they stand for and LOVEEEE the product when it works like it supposed to. But my experience about a year ago with customer support was just not good. An i did my verry best to explain en link them videos to my problems. But it took a very long time and also like it was said in the video i had to eplain en redo steps a lot of the time what is very frustrating. But after that issue with support i couldt live without it and i can confirm that the 2.5gb dongle is sturdy.

[@DamionD75]

@linus not sure if this has been said I’m at work so I don’t have time to search through the comments on my iPad but at about 18:40 when you lose the video capture and the laptop locks up you can hear the cameraman, I’m assuming, in the background saying oh fuck

[@pvshka]

It has, but you're absolutely free to point it out again, because it was so funny 🤣

[@Barrett_Fodder]

There really should be a "deliver as configured" option of the fully assembled framework, where the laptop comes with the layout a user selects as part of their configuration. I only say this because there are people that want to support the company and it's ideals, but are intimidated by the thought of having to do so themselves. Just think of any of the myriad of elderly that we probably all know...that we in turn are the tech support for, but driving or flying halfway around the world to install a keyboard in a prebuilt laptop doesn't make sense...or cents.

[@viken3368]

I never thought about it but buying a framework for elderly seems incredibly convenient, so you can easily fix stuff while they don't need to relearn a new computer

[@sunbleachedangel]

they already do that, the second laptop in this very video was exactly that

[@SYNTHESlZE]

If natalie has a million fans, then I am one of them! If natalie has one fan then that is me! If natalie has no fans, then that means I am no longer on earth! If the world is against natalie, then I am against the world!

[@joeyf504327]

This brand will only be sustainable with die hard support from an extremely niche group. It's cool. But has so much overhead for a low volume product.

[@nunyabiness181]

Clueless end users for some reason think their problem is severe enough that there’s no way a reboot could solve it, so they lie about it to not have to do it. Always check the task manager

[@PushoX76]

how broski got 10k views in 5 mins Edit: W Nathaly

[@Stonecutter64DS]

My issue with framework is that I forgot it existed when I rly needed a laptop a year ago

[@bestbuny0078]

@@Stonecutter64DS I mean they are expensive but more eco friendly for like simple text work get a 150$ plastic HP trash book (I only know the HP shit box laptops that's why my recommendation sounds so random)

[@griffin8062]

My issue with framework is I have a 6 year old thinkpad that works perfectly well and no reason to buy a new laptop

[@papasivir4241]

​@@griffin8062same issue here. I really want a framework laptop I just don't need one right now LOL if I'm ever in the market for a new laptop though I'm definitely getting one of those.

[@JJARCHIE]

@@griffin8062 my t480s still going strong

[@bestbuny0078]

@@griffin8062 Linux sigma found (not only from profile pic)

[@The1stChillaKilla]

Cant talk about framework yet, order placed yesterday. But if their support is anything like prusa i will love it. Had a faulty hotend thermistor. Took 5 minute chat to get a replacement shipped out

[@ChrisPBaconGaming]

I love that you secret shopped your own investment and gave honest feedback and results. I’m helps to show you guys really are here to help the community and not just in it for the money. I appreciate yall!

[@ThomasMather]

Mildly frustrated at the editing choices wrt Seth's experience. It would have been much clearer to show both sides of the support conversation (even as a link in the description), allowing us to decide whether the technical support was justified in their responses. A specific example is the highlights at 23:22 coming up in the wrong order (the right email is dated Dec 12th, and the left Dec 14th) and without seeing Seth's replies, we don't know whether he confirms that he's actually tested with an external display.

[@G7Animated]

I can’t wait!! I got my fw 2 years ago and it’s great, wish it had better battery life tho

[@enesbala5195]

Looking forward to the Zen 5 updates or Meteor Lake

[@papasivir4241]

I feel like almost zero laptops with reasonably fast components have what I would call "good" battery life so until we get solid state lithium ion batteries or graphene batteries that's just kind of what I expect if I'm getting a powerful laptop.

[@papasivir4241]

Maybe the new laptops coming out with ARM SOCs will help the issue a little bit.

[@The_Dork_Lard]

0:31 Just little over nine months to make a video respons to email! That’s great turn around!

[@tobilinz_]

I like the idea behind Framework. I'd buy a laptop immediately if they also sold touch screens with pens.

[@FirtoffChanel]

Hey Linus Tech Tips ! Great video, I loved it ! But I'm wandering about what the defective pieces of hardware you sent back to Framework. What do they do with them ? Thanks

[@lorenzocorsomusic1308]

These Laptops with haptic trackpads would be so much more awesome would actually ditch my Macbook if a Ryzen AI 9 Version with a Haptic Trackpad comes out

[@captain187cloudy9]

Good job Natalie. (This is me leaving a nice comment)(I also liked the video) 4:57

[@soundracoon2458]

Linus went from accidentaly dropping everything to just smashing stuff

[@HilleTV]

Just try to go back with left arrow key and enjoy the first 00:01 second of linus again and again

[@MrMikander]

It took me the same time to get the "Fresh Prince..." reference...Shame on me! :)

[@nunyabiness181]

Natalie is a natural! Great job, would love to see her on camera again