Secularism - Straw Man Fallacies

[@IjazAhmad-lv9ii]

The separation of church and state is the foundation of secularism. - George Holyoake

[@ChefbyMistake]

Can’t work in our society. We have deepest divisions with housing societies and business empire built on Sects.

[@impactculture]

Absolutely great video, sir! Could the next video be about books kept behind you and/or the literature that was influential and informative to you?

[@Mooneypilot101]

Secularism allows the space to all faiths and no faiths. Secularism is not the magic pill that solves all problems. What it does is allow people from different faiths and backgrounds to come together to solve the real problems like hunger. Poverty, education etc. It creates the space for dialogue without the toxicity of religion.

[@Mr.Adlag.]

Ya right 🤣

[@qasimshahzad4211]

@@Mooneypilot101 if that's really true I wonder Todd the way he did when it comes to religion

[@myslant]

So phir india main he q nai rhy alag se country q bana

[@hadiakbarkargili637]

​@@myslantMuslim secular state ki baat kr rhy hain. religion ko state sey separate keay bagahir koi country be developed nhi hoskti, because there is a reasonable numbers of non Muslims in Pakistan. Religion har kisi ka personal affair hai Founder of Pakistan aik Secular Muslim thay, He always drank alcohol, he never supported in his life hardline Islamic country.

[@myslant]

@@hadiakbarkargili637 so hum india se q alag hova or us time ka solgan pakistan ka matlab kia wo kese aya or pakistan k falg makn ziyda hissa green q he frerrendom main us area ko pakistan q declare kia gaya jahan muslim abadi ziyda thi or pakistan muslim league ki political struggle ki waja se bana tha to muslim league party ka name kia secular tha. Or qaradad e maqasid kia thi pur lena zra

[@buddakutta4003]

Hats off to your courage ❤

[@alifaeez]

Zabardast!!! 10 saal hogaye sir aapko suntey huey or aap jaisa koi explain nahi karsaka aisey concepts.

[@asadullahbappi3763]

Very thought provoking. By listening to this video I think Baluchistan is more of tribal vs capitalist society rather than a civil military issue

[@Taimur_Laal]

@@asadullahbappi3763 they are not mutually exclusive.

[@rajeshkumar750]

Magnificently explained Dr Taimur.

[@Philosopher-ey6qg]

Wajidi left India and is living in USA. Raja himself has a Netherlands passport.

[@qasimshahzad4211]

Point being?

[@Philosopher-ey6qg]

@@qasimshahzad4211 hypocrisy ki bhi seema hoti hai 🤣🤣

[@qasimshahzad4211]

@@Philosopher-ey6qg agreed, her cheez ki seema honi chiye, be it inferiority/superiority complex or hypocracy

[@Philosopher-ey6qg]

@@qasimshahzad4211 Wajidi din raat Secularism, liberalism aur democracy ko kosta hai, shaytani nizam kehta hai to khud kyun USA me jaa ke baitha hai. Usko pata nahin ki uske die tax se USA Israel ke bombs sponsor karta hai

[@qasimshahzad4211]

@@Philosopher-ey6qg its a fine talking point but so the chief argument is that he needs to come back to pakistan or whereever he belongs to n then present logical arguments? Being suicidal just to prove ones moral stance is not very intellectually stimulating is it?

[@ShahidAli-by4iz]

Secularism is common sense. These religious “scholars” want to impose their beliefs on non-Muslims. And, also people who are so blinded. In Europe and America, they enjoy and want secularism. Humanity first, religion second!

[@ashj5952]

People do not move to Europe to enjoy their values. They move their from their war torn countries to the countries which funded adn benefited from said wars. Purely economic reasons.

[@Mythoss-n1]

strawman fallacy from seculars

[@qasimshahzad4211]

@@Mythoss-n1 once you're out of your pink and fluffy delusions take some time Google what Marxism says about religion

[@ashj5952]

Our claim is that Islam is a superior system of governance. Ask any Islamic scholar, no one would tell you that they prefer secularism over Islam whether in the east or west.

[@ashj5952]

@@Mythoss-n1 correctly identified.

[@RuthGriffen]

Thank you for such a thorough explanation

[@kamalkhawaja3198]

sir you always been best in simple explanation of complex topics

[@momo19991]

Brilliant

[@Youtube.surferr]

QAR on his way with his video 🗿🗿

[@HeadAche-f5s]

Lol 😂😂

[@AMDesignAndDev]

Thank you for the lecture Taimur sir. I had a very similar of conception Secularism (albeit less developed, yet I am not a champion of it), but coming to the argument of having Secularism in Islam, what would the secular laws be based on? Would they be democratically decided? Islam, as a system of life suggests its own ways of governance, of welfare, of economics, and even the relationship between people of different faiths. So how can Islam maintain its position as a "deen", not just a religion (reduced to the private sphere) if secularism was to be implemented? Wouldn't Islam in itself be transformed to a deteriorated state if we accept Secularism? For your question: "Should all Pakistanis have equal legal freedom to practice their religion and equal legal rights before the law?" Wouldn't the answer for champions of Islam clearly be no? In an Islamic state, we know that propagation of other faiths is not allowed, especially publicly. Would an Islamic state allow people of other faiths to publicly propagate and convert muslims? Surely no, right? Muslims pay zakat, while non-muslims pay jizya. Non-Muslims are not obliged to take part in religious wars of the Muslims Muslims are subject to Islamic law, while Non-Muslims often had their own legal systems. Historically, non-Muslims were often excluded from holding high-level political or military positions, though exceptions existed in certain Islamic states where non-Muslims served in bureaucratic or advisory capacities. Conversion out of Islam (apostasy) was also traditionally considered a serious offense and we have examples of that. I understand your argument that we need this reform due to the deconstruction of tribalism, yet even back in days, despite strong tribes existing in Madina, even then non-muslims weren't allow to reach their religion publicly and convert muslims to their religion. When we have the Prophet PBUH implementing all of these in a particular manner at the time of his rule, how can any Muslim go against that and say we want to now have equality of all faiths under the state?

[@MickSwope]

If we may only implement Islamic Shariah as state's policy(set of rules) so can it be called secularism as well. Note, we'll only take the set of rules from shariah, religious top brass or orthodoxs would not be allowed to interefere in governance and other state affairs.

[@shaharyarsabeeh7666]

I have previously commented on your posts related to secularism and doing it again. When a Muslim becomes head of a Muslim majority state/nation, there are certain regulations they're to abide by. 1. Political Shariah (it is NOT a system. These are some policies regarding Namaz, Zakat and Tableegh). 2. Economic Shariah (things like the prohibition of Riba, and bet. Very much closer to your ideology). 3. Hudood laws (They are non changeable) to be implemented by the legal system. They're applicable to the most extreme cases where the doer can't be given a relief and the crime is of extreme intensity. As for any case lesser than this, the state can devise and apply its own law.

[@Taimur_Laal]

You need to approach all these questions by first asking the Maqasid e Sharia. Then you can discuss each law.

[@shaharyarsabeeh7666]

@@Taimur_Laal but I didn't even ask any question. I just told you what Allah swt requires from the Muslim leadership when they're in power of a Muslim majority nation.

[@muhammadshahbaz2937]

but its also duty of muslim head of state to protect other religion people

[@shaharyarsabeeh7666]

@@muhammadshahbaz2937 yes of course. This is included in "Wanahi Anil Munkar".

[@Heterodox01]

Its videos like these that prevent people from ever coming out of the folds of myths and religion

[@ghalib9]

Jinnah's 11th August speech! We are still divided.... Long way to go may be heading slowly may be not. Thanks Lal

[@sheikhhashimi5082]

Thanks removing the misconception.

[@nowie4007]

Nice video ❤❤

[@Salman.Sma.]

Excellent presentation

[@mukhayar]

زبردست ۔جواب

[@majiskani]

Useful Video Sir

[@AqeelMalik18]

Dear worthy Sir at 10:33 In law ‘’he’’ and all its derivatives used for male and female even he also denotes all plural form for instance in Pakistan Penal Code we don’t see third person i.e she, they instead ‘’He represents all form of plurals. Hence he , his also denotes she her. BTW thanking you 🙌 for this contribution.

[@Taimur_Laal]

True. But a remnant of archaic times.

[@greengalaxy8873]

Dr. Taimur is giving his own definition of secularism while rejecting other meanings of secularism which are also professed by many different people.

[@HeadAche-f5s]

Dumbass , he is stating most. Common and simple definition of secularism, 🤣 lol he isn't invent it , and please when he rejects other definition , 😂😂😂😂 give prove !!! ,there Are many definitions of secularism but he used most common and simple , so that means he rejects other, wow 🙀 bruh you are most logical person I have ever come across, and your argument omg 😳 😱 soo tough 😭😂😂😂😂😂😂 , use your 🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠🧠 please

[@imransohail8873]

Excellent

[@erdumahmed]

Sir teer nishane par hai! 😂❤ Love your lectures!

[@SecularTalkUrdu]

Jo bat hay❤

[@qasimshahzad4211]

People like u are extremely impirtant in socoety as they generate a debate and alot of times your points are very thought provoking . As much as i appreciate your efforts sir, i was really hoping to see one more "benefit" of secularising pakistan other than the ahmadi issue. Alot of points you have mentioned can be argued to be similar in almost every ideology as far as policy is conerned.

[@HeadAche-f5s]

Watch whole video again, specially these parts 12:45 and 22:33 .

[@HeadAche-f5s]

The whole point is not about any specific religion or minorities, but the point is ( social contract ) between state and an individual with a citizen, it's not only about religion but his rights as a citizen of that country, I hope you understand, if not then feel free to ask !!!!

[@qasimshahzad4211]

​@@HeadAche-f5s ill explain one moretime, why do u think islam cannot be the social contract? Iam still in search of one benefit secularising pakistan might have have over an islamic state 16:10 and, 20:30 here dr. TR himself is basically disregarding what 90% desi seculars have been claiming secularism to be and i solute his honesty as he is always very academic in his videos. Freedom of speech and religion (within boundries offcource) is offered and agreed even in an Islamic state Where minorties should be given preferrencial treatment as far as the policy is concerned? Just how TR sahab pointed out charter of Madina where even jews were given rights. So again, whats the 1 benefit secularising pakistan has over making pakistan run by actual islamic priniciples is what i was unable to learn from his video?

[@HeadAche-f5s]

@@qasimshahzad4211 Islam as a social contract can work, but the challenge with a religious state is that it ties governance to a specific interpretation of religion, which can marginalize minorities and different sects. A secular state ensures equal treatment for everyone, regardless of religion, and allows laws to adapt to modern challenges like technology and science without being restricted by religious doctrine. It guarantees true freedom of belief and speech, including the right to question or criticize religion, which is essential for societal progress. In a secular system, the government is accountable to all citizens, not just one religious group, and this helps prevent the abuse of power and ensures that laws serve the public interest, not just religious interests.

[@HeadAche-f5s]

@@qasimshahzad4211 and your question why islam cannot be that social contract because as Dr Sahab already explain in time of Madina their were tribes , mean they can co exist with sharia without the violation of their basic human rights and their rights of citizen , because they were living in theirs tribes in which they have a chance or authority to become a leader etc , but now tribes are not exist and now states are exist so Islamic or sharia is a straight violation of their political rights , cuz non Muslims cannot get any higher authority in Islamic state , hope it helps .

[@PakistaniKitaabghar]

- منطق (Logic) - قسط: 9 - تحریر: سجیل کاظمی -بات چیت میں ہونے والی دیگر انفارمل منطقی کوتاہیاں اس آرٹیکل میں ہم مزید انفارمل کوتاہیاں دیکھیں گے جو کہ روزمرہ زندگی میں ہم اکثر کررہے ہوتے ہیں۔ • Straw Man Fallacy: یہ کوتاہی تب ہوتی ہے جب ہم کسی کے پورے مدعے کو سننے کے بجائے ہم اس کی ایک ایسی شکل بنائیں جو اصل بات کو واضح طور پر نہ دکھاتی ہو۔ Straw کا مطلب انگریزی میں گھاس بھی نکلتا ہے تو اس کا مطلب ہے کہ اصل آدمی کے بجائے وہی آدمی گھاس کا بنا کر اس سے مقابلہ شروع کردینا۔ مثال کے طور پر کوئی کہے کہ انسان کا ارتقاء ہوا ہے اور کوئی جواب میں کہے مطلب تم کہنا چاہ رہے ہو کہ ہم اور بندر ایک ہی ہیں؟ یہ Straw Man Fallacy کی مثال ہوگی کہ کیونکہ پہلے انسان نے کہیں نہیں کہا کہ ہم اور بندر ایک ہیں لیکن پھر بھی دوسرا انسان اس کی بات کو غلط رنگ دے یعنی اس سے ایک ایسی بات نکال لے جو بہت عجیب سنائی دیتی ہو اور پھر اس پر تنقید شروع کردے بجائے اصل دلیل کے۔ • Circular Reasoning: یہ ایک ایسا استدلال ہوتا ہے جس میں ہم نے جس نتیجہ مقدمے کو اور مقدمہ نتیجے کو سپورٹ کر رہا ہوتا ہے جبکہ ایک درست استدلال میں صرف مقدمے کو نتیجے کو سپورٹ کرنا چاہیئے۔ جیسے فلاں الہامی کتاب سچی ہے چونکہ وہ خدا کا کلام ہے اور وہ خدا کا کلام اس لیے ہے کیونکہ وہ سچی ہے اور اس میں لکھا ہے کہ وہ خدا کا کلام ہے۔ • Ad Hominem: یہ کوتاہی (کوتاہی کہنے کا مقصد منطقی لحاظ سے ہے ورنہ یہ حرکت اکثر جان بوجھ کر کی جاتی ہے) تب ہوتی ہے جب ہم کسی کی بات کا جواب دینے کے بجائے اس کی ذاتی زندگی یا دیگر افعال جن کا اس بات سے کوئی واضح تعلق نہیں ہوتا ان کو بیچ میں لے آتے ہیں۔ مثال کے طور پر اگر کوئی ایسا شخص کسی معاملے پر رائے دے جو تسمے باندھنا نہ جانتا ہو اور آپ اس کی بات یہ کہہ کر نظرانداز کردیں کہ "تسمے تو اسے باندھنے نہیں آتے" جو کہ ہمارے یہاں خاصی عام بات ہے تو ایسا کرنا منطقی طور پر غلط ہے۔ • Slippery Slope: یہ کوتاہی تب ہوتی ہے جب ہم ایک بات کے ہونے کو بہت بڑے اور برے اثرات تک لے جاتے ہیں جبکہ حقیقت میں ان میں کوئی منطقی ربط نہ ہو۔ مثال کے طور پر اگر کسی کے گھر پتی ختم ہوجائے اور وہ اس سے یہ باتیں بنائے کہ پتی نہیں ہے تو چائے نہیں بنے گی اور میری نیند نہیں ٹھیک سے کھلے گی، نیند نہیں ٹھیک سے کھلے گی تو میں دفتر میں ٹھیک سے کام نہیں کرپاؤں گا اور اس طرح نوکری چلی جائے گی۔ یہ غلطی سے بھی استعمال ہوتی ہے اور کچھ لوگ جان بوجھ کر کرتے ہیں۔ جان بوجھ کر یہ تب استعمال کی جاتی ہے جب انسان کو کوئی کام پسند نہ ہو لیکن اس کے خلاف کوئی دلیل نہ سمجھ آئے تو وہ اس سے ایک انہونا سا نتیجہ جوڑ دے کہ اور کہے کہ اس نیتجے سے بچنے کے لیے ہم نے اس پہلی چیز ہی کو نہیں ہونے دینا۔ • Red Herring: یہ منطقی کوتاہی تب ہوتی ہے جب کوئی شخص جان بوجھ کر اصل مدعے سے بات ہٹا کر کسی ایسی طرف بات لے جائے، جس کا اصل مدعے سے کوئی دور کا ربط بھی نہ ہو۔ مثال کے طور پر ایک شخص کسی کو کہے کہ تم نے جھوٹ بولا جو کہ اخلاقاً غلط ہے تو وہ شخص بجائے اپنی غلطی ماننے کے یا اپنے جھوٹ بولنے کی وجہ پیش کرنے کے لیے کہنا، سوال کرے ویسے اخلاقیات ہوتی کیا ہیں؟ یعنی بات اپنی غلطی سے فلسفیانہ موضوع پر گھمانے کی کوشش۔ • Bandwagon Fallacy: یہ ایک ایسی منطقی کوتاہی ہے جس میں ہم چیز کے سچے ہونے پر صرف یہ دلیل دیں کہ کیونکہ اسے ایک خاصی بڑی تعداد مانتی ہے۔ یعنی صرف اس وجہ سے ایک بات مقبول ہے تو وہ درست بھی ہے۔ مثال کے طور پر اکثر افراد میں یہ رویہ پایا جاتا ہے کہ جب ان کے عقائد کے متعلق ان سے سوال کیا جائے تو وہ کچھ بحث کے بعد کہتے ہیں کہ "اچھا، تمہیں کیا لگتا ہے کہ اتنے ارب لوگ بیوقوف ہیں جو اس بات کو مانتے ہیں اور ایک تمہیں سمجھ آگئی ہے" یہ اس کوتاہی کی بہترین مثال ہے۔ • Appeal To Authority: یہ کوتاہی ہم اکثر کردیتے ہیں کہ ہم کسی فیلڈ کے ماہر کی بات کو اس بات ایسی بات کی سپورٹ میں پیش کردیتے ہیں۔ جس میں صرف ان کی رائے نہیں بلکہ ان کا کوئی تھیوری یا لاء یا پھر کوئی ثبوت ضروری ہو۔ جیسے مثال کے طور پر اکثر ارتقاء کے حمایتی (جنہوں نے خود اس کو اسٹڈی نہیں کیا ہوتا) وہ کہتے ہیں کہ چونکہ رچرڈ ڈاکنز ایک ماہرِ حیاتیات ہیں تو چونکہ وہ کہتے ہیں کہ ارتقاء سچ ہے تو اس کا مطلب ہے کہ ارتقاء سچ ہے یہ کوتاہی ہوگی۔ بجائے صرف ان کی بات کو ثبوت کے طور پر پیش کرنے کے درست طریقہ یہ ہے کہ ہم ان کے پیش کیے گئے ثبوتوں کا حوالہ دیں۔ بہرحال یہ واضح رہے کہ ان کی سائنس پر ذاتی رائے اور ان کے لاء/تھیوری میں فرق کیا جائے۔ جیسے ایک شخص سے میری گریویٹی کے موضوع پر بات ہوئی اور میں نے کہا کہ نیوٹن کہتے ہیں اب میری نیوٹن کہتے ہیں سے کیا مراد کیا صرف ان کی رائے یا پھر میرا اشارہ ان کے لاء آف یونیورسل گریویٹیشن کی طرف ہے اگر میرا اشارہ لاء کی طرف ہے تو میری بات

[@mfvohra101]

That’s the whole problem that you can’t gather all humans on one idea! Secularism expectations are unreal!

[@honorhonor3352]

That’s why secularism is needed.

[@mfvohra101]

@@honorhonor3352 You are gonna bring some idea in the name of secularism and it is impossible to gather all humans on one idea! For example, In Islam adultery, fornication, prostitution, and pornography are punishable offenses. In Christianity or Atheism, it is not. Secularism has to pick one side and we will return to square one.

[@mfvohra101]

@@honorhonor3352 Dr. Sahab does not understand the root cause here. Please check out Ghamidi's lectures!

[@A.SMotivation-ii1wk]

Love you ❤❤❤❤

[@Nallaberojgar.]

Jab hum uk canada Australia usa jaate hain to hame hamare sare haqooq chiye hote hain. Namaz bhi aur scakaf bhi aur rabi awal ka jalsa bhi. Muharam ka joros bhi But apne mulk me dosro ko aunke huqooq nhi dene

[@laulaksiddique6160]

Non Muslims have the right to worship in Pakistan

[@arindamsaha735]

Very informative video.👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[@haleemkhankakar5638]

So great comerade

[@jamilkhan715]

Well explained. However it's hard to change the perception at society level. Unless the state itself advocate the concept thru coercive way,things will stay the way they are.

[@ashj5952]

Basically it's hard to brainwash the Muslim masses into accepting a western system of governance that was devised as a solution to a history the Muslims do not share. Bummer.

[@shahidafwan1102]

Very informative video, thanks

[@TNSaqib]

Thanks for the lecture. I understand the potential benefits of secularism however, as a muslim, I have to accept the Islamic system of ruling, the Sharia Law. And under sharia law, non-Muslims owe a tax called Jizya to be able to live in and be protected by the Islamic state. They also deserve to be equal under the law, except they have to pay a tax. I understand that this doesn’t make them completely equal, but as Muslims, we submit to Allah’s wisdom and rules.

[@Taimur_Laal]

That was for those times. Not for the modern world.

[@laulaksiddique6160]

Ataturk stopped adhans in Arabic, and women were forced to wear skirts

[@ashj5952]

Yeah they come with slogans of "liberty" and then try to enforce their western morality onto us.

[@honorhonor3352]

That has nothing to do with Secularism.

[@ashj5952]

@@honorhonor3352 The sole reason it was done is secularism. And it was done in the name of secularizing Turkey. They were separating state and religion by banning the Azan and modest dressing. Such things are still happening today like in France where they banned the hijab and trying to ban the abaya and in Tajikistan Hijab is banned as well as growing beards. Both are secular countries and justify their actions with secularism.

[@drshakirjawad6410]

Superb job...

[@arsalanahmad435]

غربت اور آزادی ساتھ ساتھ نہیں چل سکتے

[@tradershak8965]

Issue with secularism is the constant effort to define morality. A failed pursue to achieve objective morality.. results are LBGT++ which in opinion is just the begining. Without a well define moral guideline . We will keep evolving the morality as human desire changes. We are already witnessing people in EU talking of rights of pedophiles and that it should be accepted. Islam addresses the issue of morality while keeping basic human rights equal. When i talk about islam its not the religion been praticised by people in muslim world. I am referring to religion that is in Quran and Sunnah. That is by no means close to what todays religious clergy propagates and imposes…

[@goherali7750]

@tradershak8965 Couldn't agree more

[@ashj5952]

Finally someone making some sense. Other people with Muslim names in the comments are supporting secularism without fully understanding it.

[@Saqib5148]

Thank you for showing these so called people who want to be secularists the true face of secularism i would draw my opinion by ending this comment with one verse of quran that truly defines these so called that is " Have you seen those people who have made their whims and desires as their lord"45:23 I have written a portion of ayah to understand their so called idealogy

[@imtiazdar7787]

*Thanks Dr. U.K. Rumi silent for a long time why?*

[@sukhanentgroup]

SIR G make a video over how Will AI change the Economic structure of contemporary world?, can worker class use AI as a revolutionary element? and is there any change will take place in relation of production?

[@myslant]

​@Taimur_Laal so sir phir kis ka constitution many ya lago kry ye to humary han keh dia jata he k kis ki shariyat but constitution k ly same question q nai pocha jata like jese kuch log article 6 ko samjty hain nai hona chay kuch sadiq ameen waly article py itraz kerty isi trah or boht se ariticles hain jin py right walun ko bhi issue ho skta he. Or question ye bhi he jese ager kisi ko constitution issues hain but phir bhi imposed hain un py or jok insano ka qanon he Allah ka nai he or is main bhi apny apny understanding log rakhty hain jis main ikhtilaf bhi hota but court us ki tashreeh kerty hain to isi trah shariah laws ko mil bet k define q ni kia ja skta q road map nai nikl skta q qazi tashreeh nai ker skta ab ye ilzam just mulla py na den shariyat py zrori nai he k mulla hakim ho ap bhi ho skty ho but law islamic hona zrori he or boht ziyda cheezy hain jis py umat bhi mutfik ho skti he kam az kam wo to honi chahy jin py ikhtilaf ho wo beth k hal ker ly ager constitution ho skta to silamic law bhi ho skty hain

[@danishhashmi3028]

A.O.A. Sir secularism k hawalay se aik point ye b ha k India agar pure Hindu state banta ha tu wo Muslims k liay acha nai ha... possibly more exploitation and discrimination. That's why Intellectual Muslims support secularism in India... it's my observation, I may be wrong.. I am Danish Hashmi from Pakistan... I learn a lot from your knowledge and analysis.

[@ashj5952]

Our claim is that Islam is the best system of governance, and we do not share a history of the Dark Ages, the product of which was secularism. Hence, neither do we need secularism, nor does Islam allow it. And Islam being the best system of governance means Christianity, Hinduism, Secularism, all are inferior systems. So yes, in India Hindutva state would be more harmful for Muslims than secularism. That doesn't make secularism an acceptable system for Pakistan.

[@TheEyeofChange]

Religion is a construct that was developed by the same thinkers who coined the idea of Secularism. Those thinkers were able to define the limits and parameters of Christianity as a religion and that was probably because of a unitary institute of the Catholic Church. The objective of developing the idea of religion was to separate the jurisprudence, education and applied sciences from Christianity. The thinkers successfully limited Christianity as a religion which diminished the influence of the Church which it once enjoyed from the 9th century onwards.

[@hafizmalik335]

thinkers have never been able to reach evenn 5% of what religion proposes ....philosophy has failed us.

[@HeadAche-f5s]

​@@hafizmalik335 bruh I think you are high on something, what a rubbish how philosophy failed humans , even religion is a philosophy , without philosophy you can't answer the existence of god ,

[@ashj5952]

Did you just claim that religions were invented by secular thinkers? there were no religions before the 19th century?

[@TheEyeofChange]

@@ashj5952 religion as a concept of as a construct is just a few centuries old. It started during European renaissance and was almost completed in the 19th century. Before that during the medival and antiquity, there was no concept of a distinct religion. Culture, social, ritual worship even sports was amalgamated together. I am currently researching on this and I regularly post on X about this. If you want to know more.

[@ashj5952]

@@TheEyeofChange Historians crying in the corner...

[@myslant]

Question ye he k ager secular state main Church (religion) mudakhalat ni ker skta to kia secular human like secular man or weman ki life main bhi religion ko separate ker a ho ga ya ko or definition ho gi, ye is ly poch raha jese hum normal keh dety hain yar ye secular shakhs he etc.

[@zunairdar6996]

Thank you sir. There are people in Pakistan on an agenda to keep the society where it is or to make it even more regressive. Their agenda is to keep society in dark ages so they can revive barbarity. This is the best and effective way to counter them. ❤

[@ashj5952]

We never had any dark ages. That's western history. We had the Golden Ages of Islam. Do not try to enforce western solutions on us.

[@tarundabas1203]

hello sir, i am from india, i found you a nice person with great intellect. i also listen to ADAM SEEKER. can you debate with him?

[@rajeshkumar750]

Dr Taimur doing well not debating with Qaiser raja etc. No use at all debating with closed and backward minds.

[@krishnavishwakarma1969]

Who want secularism.. It is Muslims in non Muslim ruled countries... If secularism is not worth, then rohingya Muslims must be happier in myanmar

[@ParthRajput-l9f]

@@krishnavishwakarma1969 I believe secularism will not solve every problem. But separation of church and courts is important to solve the problem of unequal justice

[@ashj5952]

Our claim is not that all religions provide a superior system to secularism. That is a strawman. I keep seeing this same strawman argument for ages now.

[@babarazam900]

Sir ,in Pakistan, we see freedom is given to all religious practitioners, they can practice their religion,there is no restrictions on them in our constitution,however the main problem is ,it is not implemented properly.

[@honorhonor3352]

LOL

[@shahidjamal618]

Q. Kiya socialism logo ko lazy nahi banata? Efforts k baghair zarooraten pori hon tau? I’m still against any kind of exploitation, but I have this question. Please reply.

[@niket527]

Why are you using a thumbnail from before your hair was gray?

[@krishnavishwakarma1969]

In indian secularism. ,,, there is equal opportunity and rights to all creed and organised religion.... There is right to choose and practice religion and State safety for all and multiple religions

[@mohsinsyed4236]

If one read out the Mesaq-e-Madina or the Constitution of Madina State, it suggests to be secular.

[@athermobashshir6941]

really then in mesaq e madina jews will be ruled by their and muslims would be ruled by islamic law…was it talking about secularism

[@hadiakbarkargili637]

Ham india and other non Muslim countries mey to secularism ko support krtay hain but Pakistan keleay ye nhi.

[@nishanttyagi29]

Aree qsar raja ki viedo kaa answer hai 😂😂

[@myslant]

West main kia hova church ko q state se alag kia gaya kis k kia kaha ye mera masla nai mera masla he islamic law ko q lago nai ker skty mera masla he religion ager aik bat ker raha but state ager us k 90 degree opposite bat kry, q mujy apna religion chore k state ki bat manani pury state k leader hakim ager muslim hn or ya koi bhi religion ho q bina religion ki guide k ya religion se hut k kam kry ager wo leader nai guide leta religion ki or us k opposite koi decision ker leta he to us ka religion kese bachy ga kese reh sky aga phir apny religion py or us ko follow kerny waly bhi kese apny religion py reh skty hain phir?

[@Ahmad-yi6d]

Sir one question Is it possible for a country to have an official religion, like Pakistan has Islam, and at the same time be secular, or have its rules and regulations be secular?

[@HeadAche-f5s]

Bruh , please read the definition of secularism,

[@ashj5952]

No. Unless it's just a label. If there is any kidn of involvement or guidance taken from a religion then its not secular. Which is stupid as most of the laws of secular countries today are based on morality previously given by Abrahamic faiths.

[@_AmorFati321]

One may assume that Christians and Muslims should share hatred for the Jews and that Hitler did the right thing when you say that Christians used to prosecute Jews.However, it is pertinent to mention that such a belief is not in line with both Christianity and Islam. Ezekiel Chapter 18 Verse 20: A son will not bear the iniquity of his father ...the wickedness of the wicked man will fall upon him Quran 17:15 : "And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another" A secular Muslim should therefore carry no hatred for people of other religion even if they are Jews. With all that said,I must make clear that Israel's Palestine conflict is a regional dispute and their atrocities are condemnable. May there be peace in the world

[@Taimur_Laal]

Very good comment. Thank you for that.

[@_AmorFati321]

@@Taimur_Laal I am glad that you engage with the audience.I just want to say that your contribution towards societal change through education is commendable

[@Taimur_Laal]

@@_AmorFati321 thank you 🙏

[@ahmedaziz8267]

If there will be no hatred how will you do jihad ? There should be hatred but potential hatred

[@ashj5952]

A "secular Muslim" is a contradiction. Muslims means someone who submits to the will of Allah i.e. a follower of Islam and Islam does not allow separation of church and state. It is embarrassing to think that morality/ system of governance prescribed by Allah is inferior to a system based on our deficient human opinions.

[@drirbazawan1247]

Qaiser Raja Ne Phr Bhi Strawman hi Krna Hai ... Q K Wo Intellectual Fraud Hai

[@mfvohra101]

In Islam, some commandments are given to state or khalifa! Please check out Ghamidi on that!

[@laulaksiddique6160]

Desi secularists want freedom to blaspheme. What is morality under secularism. Is gay marriage moral under secularism

[@ashj5952]

With the examples of Mao and Stalin, gay marriage is probably tame for secularism.

[@usmanmuhammad5061]

The army has a divine right to rule Pakistan? 😅

[@hamzaraza9291]

Secularism says to live without religion, religion can only be your personal practice But if you follow Islam then you cannot be secular and Islam also condemns coercion

[@me4336]

Sir Jee, you live in the 1970s. Secularism, theocracy, and capitalism are ancient theories. Europe also distanced itself from them. Only one theory works today; there is no theory.

[@arbajff2551]

Ham muslim flow karte haye hamare nepalme sekulersm k waja se mashllah achchha hai

[@ABDULLAHMOHAMMEDFAISAL]

Islamic Republic of Pakistan ko keya karay?

[@ghulamishaqkhankhan5614]

lecture intresting hai ustad pr har 5mint mai adds ny dimagh kharab kr dia.....😁😃😀

[@imranbasit8276]

👍👏👏👏

[@Shahid-jadoon]

اب ہماری جامع مسجد کے مولوی کو یہ باتیں کون سمجھاے گا 😅😅😅😅

[@packerslife175]

Asali masla he ye ha khali molvi he nae balke jahil aur molvion ke perhay likhe chamche sab ko samjana mushkil ha

[@rizanjum]

Dr. Sb Qasir Raja ny app ky khilf is video par ik video bani, agr wo app ko smjah me ai ho tu zaror us ki summer ee kr dien 🧐

[@basit6342]

Almost every pakistani law is secular except hudood laws, other than that it is very hard to argue that the pakistani society in terms of political, social and economic is islamic, it is very much a secular system. Pakistan sirf naam ka islaami mulk hai

[@Taimur_Laal]

That's true on paper. But there were big projects for Islamisation of the law.

[@ashj5952]

Given this, all the arguments your side makes about the poor conditions of Pakistan go down the drain.

[@laulaksiddique6160]

As there is no church in Islam

[@sameernasir1484]

Qaiser sb specialize hai es chez k agly bndy ka argument misinterpret and oversimplify krty hain

[@Xulqarnan]

Taimur bhai, apki voice separate hai video se,. Change your mic 🎤

[@rebelwithacause4912]

Why have you started ads now ? Can't you just keep it ad free yar without monetizing it ,out of respect for your so called attempts and efforts to do justice to your ideological commitment?

[@Taimur_Laal]

@@rebelwithacause4912 to sustain any effort one needs resources.

[@myslant]

Ager secular state tamam maslail ko hal nai ker skti to phir secular state q ?

[@packerslife175]

Secular states hamare samne Hain western counties aur even Japan,Korea ne duniya me taraqi ki Uske muqable me Pakistan aur Afghanistan ke halaat bhi hamare samne Hain

[@myslant]

@@packerslife175 turki to sudi ne bhi ki dubai ne bhi ki jahan monarchy he or afghanistan main pehly ap k dost secular Russia then America ne media e jung bna rakha tha or jis se hum bhi directly mutasir hovy ye waja he k hum ni tirki ker pay, religion kese tarki ko rokta koi example dy ?

[@laulaksiddique6160]

So Pakistani laws will continue to be under British laws

[@myslant]

Aik insan ne apni religion main pura he k interest haram he or wo apny religion py rehna bhi chahta ho or kal to Parliament kia religion ko chor k religion against interest ki sport main bill pass krwa dy kia ye sahi he kia us ko religion follow nai kerna chahy?

[@laulaksiddique6160]

So Pakistani laws will continue to be British laws

[@Amankhan-b9j]

Pakistan me AGR kisi pote me apne justice Dada ka name roshan kiya he , wo rehman family k taimur rehman he

[@Ahmad-yi6d]

🤔

[@madmax5756]

Allah blessbu sir❤

[@drirbazawan1247]

Qaiser Raja Ko Kahein Ke Boycott_Netherlands_Passport campaign Bhi chlae 😂

[@Photon-1927]

Secularism is not equal to Godless. Pakistan should become a secular country for its social development

[@ashj5952]

Please educate yourself. Secularism assumes atheism. This is essentially what 'separation of church and state' means. Instead of following e.g. an Islamic or a Christain paradigm, they assume that none of them are true. Meaning they assume that Atheism to be the Truth and run the country based on that assumption.

[@MustafaSajjadHaider_Dramatist]

Mohtram Dr. Taimur. Baray adab k saath mamooli sa ikhtilaf krny ki jsarat ker raha hun. Aap ny fermaya keh srmaya darana nizam ny qabeely khatm kiyay. Mery fehm k mutabiq to jb Rasool e Pak (PBUH) ny Riasat e Madina ki buniad rkh di aur ferma dia keh is Riasat ki authority Allah k hukm k mutabiq Rasool (PBUH) hen aur un k baad logon k chuneeda khalifa ek k baad ek hon gay to qabailiat to khatm ho gaee. Qabeela kia tha? Qabeela woh tha jiss ka Sardar hota tha jo keh final authority hota tha. Un ka apna qanoon hota tha aur apna us per amal der aamad ka tareeqa e kar hota tha. Ab yeh sb kutch sirf Sardar ki merzi sy hota tha ya woh doosry ser kerda logon sy mshwaray ky baad bnaya jata tha, beherhaal final word Sarda hi ka hota tha aur koi uss per choon bhi naheen kr sakta tha. Aap ny jo Rehman qabeely ki baat ki woh Qabeela naheen ek brathery ho sakti hai jo ek doosry ki maali, alhlaqi ya isi qisam ki koi strength waghera muhaiya to ker sakty hen laykin kisi Rehman nami shkhs ky banayay hooway qawaneen k teht zindagi naheen guzar rahay hotay aur na hi woh kisi ek shakhs k tabia e ferman hon gay lehaza unhein metaphorically ya phir symbolically qabeela to keh den laykin usay qabaily nizam naheen keh sakty. Qabeelon ka khatma yun ho gia tha keh Riasat k ander Riasat naheen ho sakti thee, aur Riasat e Madina k baad sb ko sirf aur sirf ek hi qanoon ko follow kerna tha aur woh tha Allah ka qanoon jo wahee k zariyay Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) pr nazil hoowa tha aur sb ky liyay uniform tha. Ab agar aap koi Group form kr lain aur baat ko smjhany k liyay kabhi usy qabeela keh kr bhi pukar lain to woh alag baat ho gi laykin aap usay Qabaily Nizam ka naam naheen dy sakty jo mostly kisi ek shakhs k naam sy hi aagay chal raha hota hai. Umeed hai aap is baat ko agar kisi aur parayay mein smajhty hein to zaroor wazeh fermayain gy. Wesy aap hi k ek lecture k hawaly sy agar koi qabeela Riasat e Madina k baad bhi apny qaiday qanoon aur rasm o riwaj chalayay to usi ko phir Taghoot bhi kaha gia hai, yani gher ullah jiss ki ita_at krna sakhti sy mana fermaya gia hai. Kher Andesh.

[@TzeroOne]

Secularism, liberalism aur in Saro k nateejy hm ne dekh liye west mein. Ap hazraat ko itna e shauq h to wahi shift o jayen, wahan ki zalalat yahan import karny ki zarurat ni

[@ashj5952]

Facts

[@Mooneypilot101]

Many in Pakistan confuse Secularism with Atheism. These two are entirely two different animals. People need to educated themselves over these two subjects.

[@ashj5952]

No one confuses Secularism with Atheism. Secularism assumes atheism, which is a fact. Educate yourself, kindly.

[@Mooneypilot101]

@ashj5952 What makes you believe that secular means atheist? There are plenty of secular where people practice religion freely. Please. come out of the dark cave and learn to educate yourself. It's good to evolve or you will be monkey forever.

[@emotionsdevotions6508]

Agar secularism se masle hal nahi hotay to phir Islam pr preferable kiun?

[@Enlightenedpersona]

Locke, Hobbes ,russo stupid ban gaya Kant Goethe Hegel ane ki bad , ahi Iqbal ne jahir Kiya, will Durant ne story of philosophy ne bataya...Pakistan proposal ne will Durant ka jikr Iqbal ne is bat ke Liye kia.

[@laulaksiddique6160]

Under Islam all citizens are equal under the law. You keep referring to European history.

[@Taimur_Laal]

What are dhimmi?

[@faisalempire1689]

2nd question... Sir ap keh rahe k state me Hr kese ko pore pore haq melna chahye.. tu agar Pakistan ke constitution me sirf Ahamdi group ko apna haq mele..phr be pakistan ko secular banna chahye? phr Paksitani constitution thek hoga? Q k Pakistan ke constitution me minorities ko us ke pore haq mele hai sewaye Ahamdiyo ke. Or esa q? Im sure you knew this

[@myslant]

Ye agreement kb state hum se krti he 😅 misal k tor per aik shaks 2024 main payda he but state social agrement 1947 main ya keh lo 1973 but ye itna poranay law ko 2024 main paida hony waly py impose kerna kese sahi he?

[@Taimur_Laal]

@@myslant yes that is one of the main criticisms of social contract theory.

[@myslant]

@@Taimur_Laal so sir phir kis ka constitution many ya lago kry ye to humary han keh dia jata he k kis ki shariyat but constitution k ly same question q nai pocha jata like jese kuch log article 6 ko samjty hain nai hona chay kuch sadiq ameen waly article py itraz kerty isi trah or boht se ariticles hain jin py right walun ko bhi issue ho skta he. Or question ye bhi he jese ager kisi ko constitution issues hain but phir bhi imposed hain un py or jok insano ka qanon he Allah ka nai he or is main bhi apny apny understanding log rakhty hain jis main ikhtilaf bhi hota but court us ki tashreeh kerty hain to isi trah shariah laws ko mil bet k define q ni kia ja skta q road map nai nikl skta q qazi tashreeh nai ker skta ab ye ilzam just mulla py na den shariyat py zrori nai he k mulla hakim ho ap bhi ho skty ho but law islamic hona zrori he or boht ziyda cheezy hain jis py umat bhi mutfik ho skti he kam az kam wo to honi chahy jin py ikhtilaf ho wo beth k hal ker ly ager constitution ho skta to silamic law bhi ho skty hain

[@myslant]

@@Taimur_Laal so is ka kia answer he

[@sirajuddin1058]

Muhtraram taimur rahman sahib public plateform par apni ilmiyat aasan zuban main mushki mazamin ko bayan karnay main mojazana maharat rakkhtay hain. Iska ye mozo intihaee tor par aam paya or itna main mutaassar howa keh agar inka yeh lectur pamistan kay motadiba maqul log sunain keh yeh to sidhay sidhay qanun ki baladasti ka paigham hay. Secularism koi baydinee nahin balkeh sidha haq or justice ki tabidari or aman ka khamosh paigham or rasta hay. Na maquliyat alaaihada bat hay. Taimur sahib zinda bad.

[@Taimur_Laal]

Thank you.

[@muhammadnadeem3467]

سر آپ کی ہر ویڈیو ہمارے اندر کی کسی نہ کسی بوسیدہ دیوار کو زمیں بوس کر دیتی ہے ۔۔۔میں نے انڈیا پاکستان کے تقریبا تمام دانشوروں کو سن رکھا یے آپ سے زیادہ قوت استدلال اور برہین قاطعہ جو مخاطب کو قائل کرتے ہیں کسی اور دانشور کے پاس نہیں ۔۔۔اس معاملے میں قدرت نے آپ بہت نوازا ہے ۔۔۔ہمیں آپ پہ فخر ہے سر

[@Taimur_Laal]

Such a wonderful compliment. Thank you.

[@naveednaveed7925]

ہمیں ان کی مزھبی پریکٹسس سے کو اختلاف نہیں ہمارا موقف صرف اتنا ہے کہ ان کو پبلیکلی مساجد کی اجازت نہیں ہونی چاھیئے کیوں کے مساجد کی مشاہبت سے سادی لوح مسلمانوں کو ان کے بتیادی عقیدے سے بہکانے کی اجازت نہیں دی جاسکتی ہم ان کی عبادت گاہوں کے بھی مخالف نہیں لیکن ان کو اپنے آپ کو مسلمانوں کی عبادت گاہوں سے ایک الگ شناخت رکھنی ہوگی .جسے میں ایک عام اور سادہ مسلمان فرق کر سکے........

[@mrnoone-666]

Jo Kam musalman khud kartay aye Hain wo koi aur karay to Mirchi lagti hai. Khud ko abrahamic claim karnay walay musalman pehlay khud ko abrahamic kehna band Karen phir Kisi ko kahen ke Muslim ki naqal na karo. Ye jahil Arabi kab se Abraham ki nasal ban gaye? Ye sirf abrahamic honay ka dawa kartay Hain baki in me Abrahamic faith ka kuch bhi nahi hai. Muslim khud ko abrahamic kehty Hain Kyu ke Muhammad ne kaha tha. Isi tarha Ahmadi khud ko Muslim keh saktay Hain Kyu ke unho ke Rasool ne khud ko Muslim kaha tha aur Saath Saath ye bhi kaha tha ke Jo musalman usay Rasool na manay ko kanjari ki aulaad hai. To Kya sab Muslims kanjari ki auladain ban gaye Kyu ke Mirza Ahmadi ne bol diya? Kisi ne Kya kaha is se kuch farak nahi parta. Asal me saboot hona chahiye. Musalman apna abrahamic honay ka saboot den pehlay phir Kisi AUR par ilzam lagaye ke religion se chori na karo

[@spiritworld9877]

Ahmmmm😂! AOA with respect laal sahab ki video un k first point sa agay he na jati agr unhoon na secularism k sath sath Arabic mein "deen" ki def parh li hoti. Baki batein phir kabi. Successfully misinterpreted ISLAM as a deen and why it has problems with secularism.

[@spiritworld9877]

and and and taghut ki definition check kr lein. Video ka answer comments mein likna mushkil ha ponder on the points i made.

[@myslant]

Ager maqsad tamam minorities ko equal rights dena hi he to or un growth hi he or is k ly secular state zrori he to kia dubai jo monarchy based he wahan other community's ko growth kerny ka right nai mil raha but is bat k answer main ye kaha ja skta he k dubai aik secular monarchy he but aysa bhi nai he wahan py koi other religion ka king ni ho skta kam az kam is time py ab is bat py smile zror kerna secular monarchy 😅