Self Launching Motor Glider: Isn’t that a plane?!

At the tail end of a day we go for a quick jaunt in an Arcus, to experience self launching with a glider engine. It's a quick ride up, and the glider is awesome.
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00:00 Prep
00:53 Launch
02:46 Flying around like idiots for a bit
03:10 Runway Check
03:38 Approach and Landing
04:32 About the Arcus
05:22 Full Take Off from the Outside

[@jimpike7445]

I've had a Silent2 Electro FES 13.5m self launching glider since 2017. It requires very little maintenance, is hangared at a small airport with a paved runway about 10 min drive from home. I can take the batteries home and charge them in an hour or so if the forecast is promising as I rarely use more than 40% charge. It requires very little maintenance and I've got it registered as a "Basic Ultralight so can do my own. The avionics (LX9000, transponder, Radios, FLARM, etc)are powered by a 12 volt system running off the main batteries. I can install the batteries and be flying in about 10 minutes usually climbing to get out of the airport traffic zone to between 1000' and 1500' normally using about 30% of the battery. Since I'm retired, I can be gliding earlier in the season than glider clubs with grass runways on any day of the week without any crew or towplane required. The electric motor is virtually 100% reliable and is available instantly with no warm up required if the lift dies and there's usually enough charge left to get me 40-50km to an airport although it's almost never required. If that isn't enough to get me to my home airport, I have a 3kw charger that I carry behind the seat to get me another 60km or so to the home airport. So far I've flown it about 550 hr in 6 seasons of gliding and hope to start the 2023 season here in Ontario Canada in the next week or so now that the snow's almost gone. I was still snowboarding yesterday but it rained today and a high of 12C tomorrow.

[@gangster2479]

hi what a great experience you have. Can you explain more about 3KW charger?

[@jimpike7445]

@@gangster2479 It was a 3kw charger that Luka from FES modified for charging the 2 FES batteries in series but was discontinued by the manufacturer so mine is the only one. It is small enough to fit behind the seat of my Silent2. I take it with me with several adapter plugs in case I want or need to drop in to another airport or glider club. I can then top up my batteries for the trip home. I also use it normally to charge the batteries at home much quicker than the 2 standard 600w chargers that came with the Silent2.

[@gangster2479]

@@jimpike7445 wow so this sounds very reasonable. As electric engine is superior on reliability and fast start/stop to have this options just to recharge on the go is supper. Can you also charge while you use the engine respectively batteries in the air?

[@jimpike7445]

@@gangster2479 The charger needs mains power so I need to land to recharge, But any airport or even a farm strip could be a power source for a top up of the batteries to get back to home base. I have a home-made trailer but have never needed to use it since bringing the glider home after purchase.

[@hypocritical7379]

i really like the idea of this; you can buy a glider that is cheap to recharge, doesnt need to run the motor for the whole flight, and has a long range. this could be amazing for traveling

[@PureGlide]

You definitely can especially in a twin with a bit more space for luggage :)

[@hypocritical7379]

@@PureGlide yeah this glider even got its own mod for microsoft flight simulator which is kind of insane

[@experimentalcyborg]

I'm not a pilot but i love this concept. Especially the ones with a folding prop on the nose. An electric one with an acceptable weight worth of lithium batteries could run for a couple of hours, i wonder if a model like that exist yet!

[@PureGlide]

They sure do, look up FES (Front Electric Sustainer) glider, and also the new electric self launching gliders such as the JS2

[@lucasschofield8716]

​@@PureGlide CATL have recently unveiled batteries specifically for aircraft, which have *twice* the energy density of regular lithium ion batteries. Making this even more viable.

[@SuperPhunThyme9]

@@lucasschofield8716 I wish there was a lever to release the batteries just like the tow rope.....you know, in case you find out they came from China mid-flight.

[@lucasschofield8716]

@@SuperPhunThyme9 You do realise the vast majority of Batteries, including the best ones available today, come from China?

[@portnuefflyer]

As an old hang glider pilot, I still look for lift when I fly my small bushplane (RANS S-7S), and with a 9 K ridge in my backyard it's easy enough to find. 3+ hrs is my dead stick ridge soaring record, and that was only because I was getting bored! When I fly with other pilots, it's always easy to see the ones with NO soaring experience of any kind, they just power thru lift, I'll make use of it, I have been asked "what are doing?"!!

[@saltydecimator]

Videos or it didn’t happen!! But srsly, that’s awesome. Seems to be sensible

[@portnuefflyer]

@@saltydecimator Agreed, here ya go. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnucp2dpaKhjpK8si=zDdA6DGsT54tVWXu No real thermal soaring, just good smooth ridge lift. A buddy who also flew hang gliders back in the day AND was also a corporate pilot flying a Lear, one day flew the same ridge, in the Lear! Very windy, we were grounded, but we heard something..., looked up, and there was Rod making a single pass, all slowed up (for a Lear) flaps down, I'll never forget that.

[@bkailua1224]

Some motor gliders have a fixed engine in front, look like an airplane and sound like an airplane and fly like an airplane and glide about like an airplane but airplane pilots are not qualified to fly them. Glider pilots with zero cross county experience can with a self launch endorsement after their checkride in the USA take passengers on a cross country flight or any distance in a glider that looks like an airplane. Airplane pilots in the USA must have cross country experience before they can take their checkride. Don't shoot me I didn't make up the rules. :)

[@PureGlide]

Sounds about right!

[@phantomkea2]

In NZ you are required to be a Qualified Glider Pilot before you can then get a separate Motor-Glider rating, most motor-glider pilots tend to be experienced glider pilots before transitioning, a cross-country rating is a separate requirement

[@phantomkea2]

@@UncleJoeMediaNot sure how things work in Australia but probably quite similar

[@KevinJDildonik]

I will hazard a guess. Glider pilots get exceptional training at unpowered landings, while even an experienced GA pilot might have zero experience landing without the motor running. Not saying that's a correct way to handle it. But add in a few decades where presumably not too many hot shot powered glider pilots decided to prove the officials wrong... And you end up with a silly old rule still on the books.

[@ronaldglider]

Great to see that you want to look serious but can't stop smiling!

[@plazaba]

Very nice video, Thanks Tim!!

[@PureGlide]

Cheers!

[@diablouser]

I got a ride with Dick V. In his Arcus. 4.5 hours, 225 miles on not too good of a day. Got home and there were two on Wings & Wheels around $225 thousand. It was near the end of our season and the wife pointed out that if I got ten flights they would be $22 thousand each. I restated her estimate to $11 K, it being a two place, no sale. Last year I retired my HP-18 that I built and flew for over 30 years and got a HPH304 MS. Better late than never!

[@PureGlide]

Haha the trick is you can sell it again once you're done with it!

[@markpitts5194]

@@PureGlide What? The missus?

[@markpitts5194]

Sorry, had to.

[@tomarmstrong1281]

That is a matter of opinion. It is a motorised plane when the motor is wanted and it is a gilder when the motor is not wanted.

[@PureGlide]

Pretty much!

[@KestrelYI]

I was fortunate to do the bulk of my training in a Duo Discus! Spoiled me a bit compared to the typical club gliders :)

[@PureGlide]

That's not a bad thing :)

[@soaruk3697]

I believe there was a girl in the Czech Republic (did the PR at the Junior Worlds) that did all her training and first solo in an ArcusM

[@MrSilentPilot]

The Arcus should have been called the Duo Ventus!!!

[@PureGlide]

You are so right!

[@Will-ui7dv]

Cool to see some self-launch ops from the cockpit! That high speed upwind leg was interesting - is that fairly common practice?

[@PureGlide]

We had height to burn. What else are we going to do with it?!

[@phantomkea2]

If you are flying an Arcus high speed is compulsory 😊

[@xjet]

Let's hope the summer returns because the weather is pretty crappy right now.

[@PureGlide]

Yip any month now it’ll come right… but which year?!

[@NoTAtchoum]

Over here in Belgium the weather has been crap since weeks

[@phantomkea2]

@@NoTAtchoumYes but at least you can use winter as an excuse !

[@NoTAtchoum]

@@phantomkea2 i can't, i went flying on December 9, it was cold as hell but the snow all over the place and the frozen (grass) runways were amazing

[@soaruk3697]

Depends where you are.......... just propping up the bar after another 1000k...............

[@TheSoaringChannel]

Heeyyyyyy SLS checking in 😂 my DG makes the same clickity clackity sound when the engine retracts or extends at 2:44 lol

[@PureGlide]

Gidday!

[@TheSoaringChannel]

@@PureGlide gidday! Just detailing this monster ship!

[@TheSoaringChannel]

@@PureGlide I would love an Arcus. But for now - I'll have to stick with the DG money style glider 😂

[@planespeaking]

Electric self launch gliders improving all the time and easily give enough height for initial launch and emergency boost. I like the AS34me an LS8 neo e although second is just a sustainer. Also interesting to hear the benefits of flapped gliders.

[@planespeaking]

@Fidd88 Interesting and thoughtful reply. Electric self launch should be reliable though Vs winch launch break and they seem to be improving with higher battery density. Some self launch might be slow but AS34me climbs at 600fpm (3ms) Vs a Cessna 172 which is 721 fpm. Hardly a cosmic difference. Biggest factor is weight with them adding ~300kg but as a recreational tool or something to prevent outlandings they seem pretty useful. Disagree on the whole dangerous take. If you have an obstacle ridden path forward of the runway, self launch might not be the best choice in that scenario.

[@phantomkea2]

We normally achieve a climb out in the Arcus M of between 400 and 500 fpm which is pretty reasonable and puts you at a decent height over the boundary fence

[@phantomkea2]

@@Fidd88You normally only run the engine at max power for around 5 mins or so and 2-stroke engines love to be run hard, as long as you use a good quality oil in your fuel mix and attend to the scheduled maintenance everything should be fine, the vibration effect on the aircraft can however do things like loosen canopy screws !

[@nob0dy27_]

@Fidd88 the as34me has a climb rate of 3.7m/s or 7.2 knots, better than most self launchers, i think that's more than enough

[@nob0dy27_]

@Fidd88 the mechanism is almost totally automated and electric. Stefan Langer has a great video on the as34me that you can watch: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnaYlqqOo8mMobM

[@pilotmiami1]

Bravo

[@randytolle6706]

I have always thought about theTaifun Motor Glider. Retractable gear. Variable pitch prop and can be flown with a glider rating and no medical.

[@marcuskey7173]

We got one. But take a look at Stemme Motorglider too

[@Sypheara]

Nice plane

[@PureGlide]

I think so too!

[@davesgliding]

I would split this category into self-launchers and motor gliders. The former are like the Arcus depicted here, and the latter are more like a Stemme. Both are designed to be able to fly without their motors, but the Arcus is more like a glider than a Stemme, which in many ways looks like an ultralight aircraft. This has led to confusion with aviation authorities in many countries with respect to licensing to fly these. Some motor gliders can run their engines for extended lengths of time, maintain a flight level, and if having a transponder, a glider pilot (GPL rating) could easily be flying in and out of the same airports as someone with their PPL, and needing to follow all the same procedures. There's a reason why, at least in Canada, the written exam for a PPL is two hours longer than for a GPL. I think the jury is still out on this with respect to motor gliders, but for the most part, they are being treated as gliders and only requiring a GPL, at least in Canada. How glider pilots use them, if not wisely, may change that assessment.

[@PureGlide]

Yeah exactly right I’d say

[@soaruk3697]

Stemme has a retractable engine so I'd say it is a SLS - just in a different configuration. A 'motorglider' to my mind has a fixed engine i.e. like the Schiebe Falke, ASK-14 etc. p.s. Stemme held many 'World gliding records' when flown by Klaus Olhman - you seem to have overlooked that fact....

[@davesgliding]

@@soaruk3697 Fair point. The S10 has such a long motor range, it could easily handle maintaining a flight level in/out of an International Airport. The engine is more powerful than some ultralight aircraft. Compared to some motor gliders, it's actually a really good glider. There's only two in Canada, and they are both considerably far from here, so I've never seen one. Xiamango and Pipistrel have more of a plane look. Those would have been better examples. Thanks.

[@markburton5170]

I agree with your point about the distinction between the different types. In the UK the terminology is SLMG for self launchers and TMG (Touring Motor Glider) for those with a fixed external prop. The Stemme S10/S12 is unique and something of a hybrid with good performance both as an aeroplane with a prop on the front and a glider with the prop concealed. On licensing, here you can now fly either type on a Sailplane Pilots License with a TMG extenstion. Getting a TMG extension does not require any further written theory test and has a theoretical minimum flight time requirement of only 6 hours. So with an SPL plus 6 hours in a TMG you can fly something which does most things an aeroplane does. There's a lot to learn for a pure glider pilot to be competent in a TMG - these rules are surprisingly relaxed.

[@johnlock9003]

What a great thing. Why don't you land with the engine out and idling, so you can do a go round if a sheep gets onto the runway?

[@flynbenny]

Since I am new to gliding I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject, and being an aircraft mechanic for nearly a decade before becoming an engineer, I am very keen to learn about glider lifespans. I noticed that on some aircraft, their lifespan is cut in half by winch launching vs aerotow. That makes me wonder if self launching is a better option still, allowing the airframe to be used longer with less wear and tear

[@PureGlide]

I've never heard of any glider lifespan changing depending on the launch method. Maybe that is the case with some particular models. My 1986 glider has a life limit of 12,000 total hours, it's up to 3700 after a busy life. So a LONG way to go :)

[@harryspeakup8452]

@@PureGlide My old late-70s flame the L-13 Blanik was definitely lifed on number of winch launches, alas, which is why there aren't any left in service in the UK now

[@flynbenny]

Yes the Blaník in its various flavors is one of those. They are pretty common in my area, the L-23 especially, and I think a local club has a couple surplus L-13ACs. I think the L-23 is good for 5k hrs winch and 10k hrs on aerotow. After those limits some inspection has to occur or the machine is retired. I'm still reading up on it...

[@embededfabrication4482]

can't really flip up the motor for a go around yet

[@markburton5170]

What are your ear pieces? As an Arcus M driver I use headsets during engine operation.

[@PureGlide]

Hi I’m using Apple AirPods Pro

[@markburton5170]

@@PureGlide are you getting intercom and radio through them?

[@ytlongbeach]

can you launch a motor-glider from a regular general aviation airport ?

[@PureGlide]

Sure can! Even under air traffic control is fine, as we have radios and transponders just like other aircraft.

[@soaruk3697]

My first SLS flight was in its 'granddaddy' the Janus M..............

[@garydmercer]

They are called sailplanes here in the U.S. So, yes, gliders are planes...Duh! LOL

[@Voyteck]

Sounds like very expensive lawn mower 1:35 😅 Can be useful though…

[@PureGlide]

True that!

[@Johan-ex5yj]

Did I detect a hint of sarcasm in the voice of your “glider groomer” when he referred to you as “His Majesty” ?! 🤣

[@PureGlide]

Dion is known for his smart-assery lol

[@Johan-ex5yj]

@@PureGlide Yea, very funny! lol

[@SPQRTempus]

I guess motorglider pilots need to consider fuel management in order that they don't get caught short when attempting to climb out of a potential out landing, especially after self launching because that must use quite a bit of gas. Has that ever happened?

[@PureGlide]

I’m sure it must have, but most would ensure the tank is full before launching

[@phantomkea2]

Uses about 2 litres for a launch to 2000ft leaving around 12 litres for self retrieving , haven’t run out of fuel yet😊

[@robertcoutts926]

Yet the Pipistrel sinus, virus etc are classified or can be classified as self-powered gliders, no?

[@PureGlide]

Often they are classed as microlights. It can be a blurry line, and depends where you are, and what the regulations are.

[@facetofacejd]

Might be a noob question, but how did it get out of the hangar? Wingspan is so wide.

[@fcbrants]

I had the same question - it doesn't look like there is any way to get it out of the hangar without removing the wings...

[@PureGlide]

The door was behind me as I walked in. We roll them out sideways. It is sitting on a trolly that lets the glider roll in any direction. You can see me do it in the first 2 seconds of this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ambGapJ6gLN_Z9k

[@chrisgodding8114]

Why were you wearing earbuds? 🤔

[@PureGlide]

For the noise cancelling

[@PJH1111]

"Flying around like idiots for a bit" :D

[@PureGlide]

:)

[@Miguelskytwins]

Hopefully I live long enough to see them cost less than a house. (I'm 32)

[@DariuszFly]

fly, because someone is paying for it ;)

[@PureGlide]

Yes!

[@MAGApepe]

well to be honest,,, they all are called planes lol,,,, some powered,,, some not

[@grahamniven]

Had a shot in a Nimbus 3DM once, lovely piece of kit, but for me the presence of a motor spoils the overall experience. Real gliders don't have motors.

[@soaruk3697]

Real gliders pilots bungy launch of a slope and go cross country in a high performance Grunau Baby 2 or the like................

[@glideslopeza924]

Love the self launching gliders, Ive been getting started as a student glider pilot and was wondering if i could possibly do some video editing for you or maybe get people to donate, Im trying to raise R10 000 (+- 930 NZD) to get a boost at my training and to cover the class 4 aviation medical... I will make youtube videos of the training to promote the channels of everyone who helped. This is a long shot but i have a passion for gliding.

[@johanvanzyl8479]

It is a political thing! Called INDEPENDANCE!

[@kevinthomas7264]

No, what makes it a glider is planes can't climb without an engine.

[@davesgliding]

Well, planes can .. but it takes a massively strong thermal!

[@kevinthomas7264]

@@davesgliding Yeah the exception proves the rule, dummy.

[@harryspeakup8452]

I once slope-soared the Hambleton hills for about 20 minutes in a Super Cub with the engine off before the rest of the gliding club woke up one summer morning

[@kevinthomas7264]

@@harryspeakup8452 That would have been a thrill but a paper plane is still damn near the exception just like abnormally strong up drafts. I'm talking in general, innit!

[@soaruk3697]

@@davesgliding or wave or ridge lift - believe they soared U2's in the Bishop wave and I know a 737 captain who uses wave to enhance climb and save fuel when flying out of certain European destinations. Indeed I have used cloud streets in Saskatchewan to reduce fuel consumption and increase cruise speed in a 182............

[@dronefootage2778]

i noticed you keep referring to it as a glider but obviously it's not a glider. if you want to call that thing a glider then you have to call all planes gliders, meaning they can turn their engines off and glide. the definition says to make an unpowered flight, either in a glider or in an aircraft with engine failure. so you see, since your engine did not fail and your flight is not unpowered, it is thus not a glider. besides, a glider takes more skill, you gotta make sure you get back to the landing zone or you crash but with your plane, you have no such worries, it's probably so easy to fly that i bet you i can do it and i've never flown a plane.

[@PureGlide]

It's a glider :)

[@dronefootage2778]

@@PureGlide i'm just gonna go ahead and disagree with you there and let you know that you're probably insulting real glider pilots. i guess it's the same thing as drone pilots referring to themselves as pilots because "technically" they are.

[@eglide73]

Well, since you asked, yes any “glider” with a motor of any type IS an airplane. It may have a high aspect ratio wing and a great glide ratio but it’s still an airplane. It changes the way you fly and dilutes the thrill and challenge of soaring. In simple terms, motorgliders suck.

[@PureGlide]

😂 I think they’re awesome

[@eglide73]

@@PureGlide The gas powered gliders do offer one advantage I forgot about. They allow you to die in a proper fireball when you crash, just like a “real” airplane. 😳😳

[@StpBks]

I saw a beautiful Eagle soaring the sky with outstretched wings.....then he flapped his wings. What is that all about?

[@phantomkea2]

Motorgliders enable you to fly when a launch might not be available which often translates to more flying opportunities which has to be a good thing😊

[@phantomkea2]

@@eglide73I think that is more of an issue in the electric ones with lithium batteries😮

[@beebee766]

Oxford Dictionary definition: glider [ˈɡlʌɪdə] NOUN a light aircraft that is designed to fly without using an engine.

[@PureGlide]

Exactly. We put the engine away once high enough. Thus it's designed to fly without an engine.

[@soaruk3697]

@@PureGlide or you just turn it off......a la K-14, Falke etc. just don't glide as far............. although the AMS Carat used to do ok with its Discus wing and folding prop.