Sensibly Speaking Podcast

[@paulzenco6182]

All of you ex-Scientologists who speak out are very brave. That is an evil and scary cult. Thank you for your work Chris.

[@hillarysemails1615]

Brave? Or Narcisistic? Chris uses many of the same tactics that Scientology does. He silences critiques, deletes posts, and "selectively edits" to make himself seem honest, while claiming that others are liars.

[@elliesimpson1313]

Oooh, Chris! What a horrible experience you had! I am so sorry. Thank you for your dedicated work to bring these videos to us. You have an amazing sense of humor and your kindness and compassion shines through. Many people would be bitter.

[@elliesimpson1313]

This is a really interesting video!!

[@jounihiltunen3729]

Marty wants to be the hero of his own story. First as Scientologys paladin, then as Scientologys reformer, then as new agish spiritual guru. He has never admitted any wrongdoing or mistakes and refuses to take any responsibility.

[@ivermec-tin666]

@@JohnnyV_Val It is my understanding that the COS purchases compliance of former high ranking suppressive persons through an agreement and an annuity. The promise of ongoing payment ensures that the terms of the agreement are complied with. I cannot imagine anything short of this kind or settlement resulting in Marty's 180. The harassment and litigation are very hard on a marriage, and that is Marty's greatest asset at this point in his life. It is hard to fault him for seeking to protect his wife and his marriage, despite his fundamentally duplicitous nature. DM would never call off the harassment campaign, as long as Marty was engaging in squirrel tech, and Marty has no other skillset to market; no other way to support his family. IMO, what played out was a high stakes, and high profile, negotiation. Once DM "got it", a settlement was offered and accepted.

[@ivermec-tin666]

@@JohnnyV_Val There is another even more devious possibility, that the whole thing was a make; that Marty is controlled opposition. In this way, Marty gets to "retire", the COS gets a convenient traitor from within the inner circle to help circle the wagons within the cult; and now Marty serves as an adjunct operative for the Office of Special Affairs (no longer called that, but still functioning). This is a deeply cynical theory, but it is also a win-win scenario; and just devious enough to be something that Marty and DM might have cooked up together. Never underestimate the devious nature of the dwarf, or the duplicity of Marty for that matter.

[@amyhollingsworth5304]

Glad you made this episode. I had long wondered what the deal was with Rathbun. I’m an exjw who has followed the Scientology thing for a few years. When there was drama going on in the exjw movement I often wished that you and Aaron Smith Levin were in our group, you guys seemed to be so healthy and have it together. I can see now that every group is prone to their own issues. It’s nice that you admit that you had your flaws. I also have one thing to add. Cult members often aren’t taught how to make real friendships. They think that being in a group that believes the same without question makes for a good friendship. We can see a hold over from this in ex cult movements. People there often subscribe to team “this person” or team “that person” and show their loyalty by attacking the other side. It’s not surprising at all. It means that we were all cult members. Not that we have formed a new cult. Hopefully awareness of this can help us overcome it.

[@khallo151]

MY GOODNESS you are on a roll this week!

[@jillanderson3665]

As a "never in" I am fascinated with the different mindsets you have presented, I have presented myself as a hard wired theist, and find myself respecting the diversity, not just tolerating the diversity. I support therapy and counseling- I have received without a total commitment to any other viewpoint than my own. Each counselor that benefited me the greatest were always open with "I can only bring you so far, only you can decide what you will be." Thank you for your podcasts.

[@samanjm]

In my humble opinion, this has been your best video so far. And I have seen all of your videos, so I'm not just saying it. Very to the point of your whole channel, very up-to-date, addressing the most pressing and most often misunderstood issues (brainwashing, Marty Rathbun, discord in the ex community). Maybe you didn't put so much effort into it, like you said, but that just goes to show how much of an expert (I am not shy about saying that) you have become in this field. Great job! I am probably going to share this, so many people need to get up to speed with what you're talking about in here. Or at least, a discussion needs to start about this. Those who are going to continue being ignorant even after I give them this information are probably hopeless to begin with. At least for now.

[@ChrisSheltonMsc]

Thank you! I agree with what you said here.

[@janetshew5028]

It’s so hard to imagine you screaming and yelling at people and being mean- your past cult personality when I watch your shows. You’re such a natural teacher.

[@claireeebee]

I imagine the status issue is really tough to get over. I know people outside of a cult might have a hard time relating to those that were in. They could think of it like spending years and years in a college. Then, spending thousands of dollars only to find out none of your credits transfer anywhere and you can't get any job with the degree you received. If you received one at all. It's complete madness. Obviously this would be on a much lesser scale then what y'all went through. It's impressive how you can heal from this. You should be really proud!

[@CeceKruchkoSmith]

Getting out, one of the traits I worked to overcome was the status 'force'. It's a real thing. I spent a couple years rewiring that along.

[@MrCouchIncident]

Chris, thank you for the videos this week. I have really enjoyed them.

[@ChrisSheltonMsc]

You're very welcome!

[@lperez123]

Chris you’re the best. I would love to see a debate between you and a Scientologist.

[@andreadiamond7115]

Whew, guess this means I’m not part of a watcher’s cult 😊

[@roux5642]

Haha. Me too!!! Whew.

[@RhetoricIndian]

Marty is the example that any individual who came out of the cult but not out of its beliefs is not to be trusted as an activist against that cult. His beef was mostly against Miscavige and not against Scientology itself.

[@alexisdigital]

Basic manipulative technic, project your perverse thoughts onto others, accuse them of your own bad deeds, and try to appear as the victim while attacking them.

[@Aleksa_Milicevic]

We've seen through Mark Rathbun. His irresponsibility and viciousness are staggering.

[@claireeebee]

Marty has jumped in and out of Scientology so many times its mind boggling. It's very bizarre he can swing to such opposing views: Being in CoS, being a critic, believing, critic, etc. Bonkers.

[@ivermec-tin666]

Maybe he is just a gifted method actor who missed his calling. He could have been a contender in Hollywood. He certainly loves the limelight.

[@Wabe28]

Interesting remarks at 11:50 Friedrich Spee a Jesuit and early 17th century opponent of witch trials, also said something of equal weight, in regard to those who advocated such trials intellectually from their ivory towers. (Cautio Criminalis - 1631) ... the first type are those theologians and prelates who, happy in their own speculations and little museums, enjoy complete peace. Experience has taught them nothing of events outside, of the squalor of the dungeons, of the weight of the chains, of the Instruments of torture, of the lamentation of the poor. To visit the prisons, to speak with beggars, to turn an ear to the complaints of the poor is beneath their dignity and duty to study. What then can they understand about such matters?

[@nicktalk8589]

ITA and I would normally defer to academia

[@juanamigo]

Chris! You are SO correct about words & action.

[@sunyellow703]

I find your shows very helpful. I have lost several family members to scientology, and it has broken up the ones who are still in and even the exes can't fully get along or wrap their heads around wtf happened and tend to avoid each other by the association with the traumatic or perverse memories, entwined in scientology and how it has framed our collective history. A lot of healing is pretty much hampered by the trend towards disconnecting and avoiding the topic with a ten foot pole. What you have to say on the subject resonates with me and has been very therapeutic. Usually hits the nail on the head. I don't have qualms with you having a patreon account to fund what you do. I don't see it as profiting for profit's sake. It pisses me off when other anti-scientology groups take jabs at you or Aaron-Smith Levin or Mike and Leah or Tony Ortega and insinuate that you are in some way milking the situation financially or disingenuous. Some people can become incredibly toxic in their critique of the critics. And I can't wrap my head around it, other than to feel like maybe they aren't quite as far out as they would like to claim they are. Makes it kind of hard to trust who is who and who is a mole. Or who is just looking to poke holes in everyone else's experience. You have been one of the consistant voices I feel I can trust. Like you are truly out, and not playing two decks of cards. Of course I may not agree with every assessment of every situation, that you make, maybe also politically, but 90% of the time I do,and I appreciate your book recommendations especially. You have been incredibly helpful and selfless and generous, so it clashes with my experience when people try to paint you with one brush stroke or one color, and it scares me and screams of the same tactics that osa would attack exes with. I guess it is just the varying degrees of backing out of a cult. Some have an elite view of how they are better exes. More selfless exes. But something deep in me just wishes we could all just get along and protect the next generation with critical thinking. Unfortunately the bitterness can get misdirected to people who are mostly on their side. Infighting is only going to weaken any momentum to take up issues with how destructive the cult is. I am really grateful for your voice,msomImdon't really listen to the haters so much.

[@lizzyg1914]

I remember those videos on that book! It really made me think about how much credibility we give to studies in general. I literally just talked to my son about how we should look into the validity of a study verses just taking the study at face value.

[@BuffyLynn]

I’m craving some 3 apostates Chris!! Get the band back together soon please! 😉👍🏼

[@elliesimpson1313]

Love your t-shirt! I bought one recently that says: Miss Me With that Nonsense

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

Thank you.

[@lperez123]

I’m new to the anti-scientology community and I’ve had my own opinions, I’ve commented and no one has censored me. Actually everyone has taken me in with open arms and no one judges anyone.

[@JohnDoe-ym5ly]

I've found most ex-members and watchers to be OK with a range of dissenting ideas about how much of the tech works, ideas about how much Hubbard believed/didn't believe, whether it's "ok" to retain elements of the philosophy as an ex and so on. There are toxic elements I've noticed but they're a small percentage. Mostly it seems like people get pissed when exes aren't recovering the way other exes think they should.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Hubbard Tech does not deliver the goods it promises, and charges obscene amounts of money for creating fear and mental chaos in many participants. The communication course is the low priced carrot that draws you in but eventually proves to be the limit of actual benefit. The rest of the program is unfulfilled promises at steeper prices.

[@JohnDoe-ym5ly]

@@JamesRichardWiley I agree for the most part, but for instance many find value in the Data Series as an example, or insist that the Admin tech is workable in their business even as ex-members. They feel in some cases that it was worth learning and even paying for, and I don't denigrate people for feeling that way. There are some exes who believe that the Purif worked for them as well and cured their drug problems.

[@BobTheSchipperke]

It’s all so obvious, it’s it also so similar to narcissistic abuse I have seen so I have no reason not to believe all these survivor stories. Thank you for speaking out!!

[@hillarysemails1615]

Most former members are 100% real and authentic. But Chris displays the very narcissism of which you speak. He's very deceptive and "edits" any comments that he doesn't like or shows him in a poor light. I've observed this several times in many of his vids.

[@Tiqerboy]

You know the difference between religion and faith? Religion asks you for money, faith does not. But all accounts, Scientology fits the definition of a religion to a T. Even *they* claim to be a religion. Very telling.

[@jamesdooling4139]

I am not a Scientologist nor have I ever been connected to the Church. I am, however, opposing a 'clear' Scientologist in civil court and have been doing so for nearly six years. I need some guidance and understanding. My opposition attempted to lure me out of the US and my attorney thinks I am insane to mention ANY of this in pleadings or hearings. But, I have proof in the form of emails, texts, voicemails, and in-person lunches with SeaOrg operatives. Is there some way to pick your brain for an hour? Please. I need help. Jury trial is set for Jan 2020.

[@carolcyr8553]

Good video. Chris did an ad for the Great Courses in the middle of this video. I wanted to say that I've listened to several Great Courses in the past and really enjoyed them. The teachers are excellent and really interesting. I learned about ancient Egypt, ancient Mesopotamia and ancient Greece, but of course there are lots of topics covered by the Great Courses, other than history. This is a good organization that really helps people learn.

[@arthurdailey4514]

Top quality Chris!

[@sidfinster9298]

Your explanations are to the point and easy for people to understand. His claim of an anti-scientology cult was spurious. For example, Gerry Armstrong certainly doesn't express the same views as Mike Rinder, to say the least. The means of protesting Scientology varies amongst individuals. You, for instance, offer a reasoned and logical discussion. Frankly, I'm not impressed with the antics of some of the so called "first amendment auditors," who are rude and confrontational, showing up in the night and demanding entrance. Finally, people have different motivations. Some just want to see their family again and grieve their absence. Others are disturbed by Scientology's views of "wogs," and people they see as inferior.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Marty wants to start his own auditing business, using the e-meter but David won't let him. Marty and David may have struck a deal in which Marty attacks Leah and Mike in exchange for cash. Marty has played both sides now and lost all credibility.

[@kitewinter6179]

8 minutes in and i have to add this before i forget, mostly becausecim familiar with the pathology of narcissists and the people they feed off. now i dont know marty rathbun, so take this with a grain of salt. youre probably familiar with the cycle of abuse -- periods of abuse are separated by a honeymoon phase in which the target is showered with love and attention, showing them how good they have it if they just appease their abuser. it is very difficult to get out of that mindset, that prison that gets constructed in your own mind, and there very much are cases where people who apparently were out get suckered back in because they crave the abuser's love and attention too much to get out for good. it is a very sad thing. that it was his wife who sued and not him is telling in that regard -- it was her who made that move, not him. no shade thrown on her, she was probably sick of it all and very much in the right to draw the line, but in terms of getting her husband out of the clutches of warped thinking, it was too soon, and when scientology offered respite and love, he took it, and turned against the ex community. it's a classic pattern in families with narcissists. so while he mightve gotten paid off, its possible that it wasnt quite in the way you think.

[@kitewinter6179]

addendum #1, 9 minutes in: "anti scientology is a cult!!!11!" translation: "no, you!!!", aka projection! classic narc tactic. deflect, avoid, ridicule. also for someone who claims to be scientific, theyre by far not interested enough into discussing thought experiments.

[@kitewinter6179]

addendum #2, 18 minutes in: doesnt even have to be falsehoods, omissions that lead to faulty conclusions work as well. amusing that this comes almost right after the list of potential reasons for the nrm academics to have written what they have -- scientology is clever in its abuse, chris. it only starts once they can be sure youre not getting out again. very classic tactic, to have an impeccable facade -- who would believe the kindly family man or the lady who supplies all the church potlucks and is *so* charming and nice, a true upstanding member of the community, a leader and confidante, and always so welcoming; who would believe theyre awful people behind closed doors? only the people who have been through that song and dance, seen the mood whiplashes, know how to spot them. everyone else just plain gets bamboozled. because you dont want to believe that the person youve admired so much is actually a bad person, because if they are, what does that make you?

[@kitewinter6179]

addendum #3, 20 minutes in: it's not about right or wrong. it's about power and control. you step out of line, you challenge the power and control, and that is one of the worse things you can do to a narcissist (terribly insecure people, for that matter). and that means you need to be brought back in line. the actual context and content are completely and utterly irrelevant. what's important is that you dared to question.

[@kitewinter6179]

addendum #4, 44 minutes in: my therapist would disagree with you. everyone would benefit from some therapy. some people just more than others. but one of the insidious things about a fucked brain (be it from trauma or mental illness) is that it really, really would like you not to. it's not that bad, yannow? except it absolutely is. (been there, done that, wore out the tshirt, and then realised that the 'mild depression' my brain insisted i was dealing with was in reality a full-blown permanent dissociation. scientology can pry my meds out of my cold, dead hands. i like being actually aware im an Actual Person who Exists.) eta: there are, however, sadly, people who are not good therapists. some are simply not good matches, some are set in outdated ways, and some are outright predators. because vulnerable people are the ones who end up talking to mental health professionals, and you can bet that people who prey on such people can smell the metaphorical blood in the water. it absolutely is okay to go "therapist shopping" if you dont get along with yours, and ive heard my fair share of horror stories. bad things absolutely do happen in that area, its just that neither you nor i are part if classic target groups. too stubborn ::p

[@kitewinter6179]

addendum #5, 51 minutes in: sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can break my heart. and my soul, and my will.

[@ashbash635]

So they are now saying that people who want to see the end of abusive awful cults are now a cult themselves? How utterly ridiculous that is and complete and utter nonsense. So I guess anyone who is against the abusive practises of these type of organisations are all cult members. Come on. Also clearly Marty rathbun was paid off during the lawsuit and he took the money and said whatever the church told him to. I guess the bit of decency he had left was bought by the CO$.

[@annachristie377]

Chris, you're fabulous. A suggestion: topics you could delve deep, and teach and help your fellow brothers and sisters along the road to recovery. Explain: Triggers Critical Thinking is taught in highschool and your parents. Fact. They missed real education about their bodies. Explain how the body creates serotonin naturally and some medications just put it back in your body. The lies about psychiatry, and explain the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist. Cycles of abuse Demeaned you to think you're a second class citizen, much like Domestic violence. Not to use the word "wog" it is a racist word towards black people originally. How to talk and comfort your inner child just might be the most important, since childhood was stolen from all of you. Peace brother, you Rock ❣️😷😁

[@heftyelf]

"There is no brainwashing" sounds a lot like something someone would say if they're brainwashed 🤔

[@JamesRichardWiley]

The Cult of Scientology: "A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object. (Total submission to Hubbard and Miscavige) A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.( Xenu, Body Thetans, Super Powers, PTS's and SP's, Destruction of Family Ties.) A misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing." (Miscavige's worship of Hubbard) Quotes are from from Wikipedia So what is an anti-Scientology Cult? Where is the object or figure of veneration? Where is the religious belief or practice? Where is the misplaced admiration for a person or thing? There is no evidence of any anti-Scientology cult.

[@annetteandersen5762]

Knowing Jesus teachings from public Church in my childhood saved me from believing their contradictory behavior and JW in the long end

[@JamesRichardWiley]

There's a little more to the puzzle than you have seen so far. Keep learning from many sources.

[@d.lmacmclean4062]

Never really knew anything about Scientology until the Leah Remini show. Fascinating and horrifying. Your podcast is informative and intelligent. Good work.

[@ApolloVIIIYouAreGoForTLI]

Id love to know exactly what happened to Marty. My guess is he never really changed but his subjects of his attacks did.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

Marty got displaced as David's most favored son by Tom Cruise. When Marty said unkind things against David in his online blog, David went after Marty's wife Monique. Monique then sued David. The lawsuit abruptly ended probably with a payoff by Miscavige or the lack of funds on the Rarthbun's side to pay the legal cost of continuing the lawsuit. Hubbard policy is to ruin the enemy by costing them all their money and harassing them with a team of "squirrel busters". Marty's dilemma is his resentment against David that conflicts with his love of Hubbard Technology, especially the auditing session with the E-Meter which Marty was very fond of and wanted to continue.

[@nursen2106]

I bet this Marty R he had changed over all those years one way or the other - I mean, many years have past. he might be stuck with some trauma and it's sideeffects still. that is usually a hugh burden, spoiler in live and hard to resolve. I guess, that is all to it. aside of all the issues he for sure had with all the attacks from both sides and not being able to deal with it - which again indicates to unresolved trauma, betrayal, anger.... people can be conflicted very easily. but in daily live, a lot of us assume, people are streight all the time. so, I wouldn't go that far to assume, he never really changed but others did. I would rather say, the way he left shows, that his healing journey wasn't complete. I I bet, if he had healed more, he would communicate, that he wants to leave this topic behind for his next steps in live. and for sure would have find a better argument, than blaming the group and such

[@pansprayers]

@@JamesRichardWiley pretty much, except for the funding for the attorneys. Marty's lawyers were all pro-bono/contingency. He could of out lasted the Co$ and walked away with a decent settlement, even after the max stipend allowed in Texas, plus filing fees. My best guess is that Miscavage offered more than Marty thought he would, as long as he dropped the suit and went rouge on his friends. Marty must have a pretty lonely, narrow world these days, and his personality means that he's pretty miserable as a result.

[@cozmo840]

Does this mean we need a secret handshake?

[@hillarysemails1615]

Middle 2 fingers curled back to create the devil's horns with the 1st and pinky. Your mentor really should have told you, once they decided that you were ready.....

[@erpthompsonqueen9130]

I want the t-shirt you are wearing :)

[@khallo151]

My morbid anthropological curiosity is still holding out hope that one day we will know the specifics of how they “rebroke” Marty. I’m willing to wait 20 years in the hopes that it holds no sting. And that we get to speak of “back when Scientology had teeth”

[@ivermec-tin666]

Would a deathbed confession by Marty Rathbun be believable? He is clearly a man with a fungible value system. Qui Bono is all you need to know about Marty. Follow the money.

[@khallo151]

First Name Last Name I mean I suppose if it was corroborated, sure. Take Marty at face value? Pass

[@ivermec-tin666]

@@khallo151 Excellent. As the old saying goes, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[@khallo151]

Fool me a third time.... we ain’t never gonna get fooled again. Ahah that one never gets old...

[@johnedgecomb3426]

TY Chris.

[@teddyrattlesnake2991]

OMG! Marty is right! You ARE running a cult! I want my $300,000 back, Chris! Lol.

[@KC-UT4rmAZ]

I think scientology days are numbered. People leaving in absolute record numbers they'll soon get to a point where they won't have enough people to run it. Despite how much money they have. Fair assumption?

[@josephdixon1660]

When you talk about a Manchurian Candidate, you forgot to mention Reggie Jackson trying to kill the Queen in Naked Gun

[@ChrisSheltonMsc]

Damn, you're right. Such an oversight on my part!

[@lisazdvoru1660]

I was thinking about Derek Zoolander programmed to kill the Malaysian prime minister, lol. Media portrayals of brainwashing, like Zoolander, or what is seen in other movies like Conspiracy Theory or Clockwork Orange can give the impression that it is somehow magical and far fetched. I think you have done a good job explaining processes of real brainwashing in the past.

[@goldiemckernan1189]

How could Marty Rathbun have ANY credibility at all at this point?

[@danielkrawisz8345]

This is exactly what people in Bitcoin Core people say about people who like Bitcoin SV. They think that Bitcoin SV is a cult when they are really the cult.

[@Johnconno]

I'm what's left of Gary Busey's medulla oblongata.

[@lisazdvoru1660]

At the very end of the podcast, you spoke up in defense of free speech and the free exchange of ideas and opinions. Have you considered doing a podcast on the cases where, on the basis of creating a 'safe space', Universities have blocked certain protests or lectures from being given ok controversial topics?

[@yooper0987]

A cult calling others a cult. Talk about being ironic.

[@JamesRichardWiley]

It happens all the time.

[@HappyQuailsLC]

Wouldn't it be great to contact the academics and ask them to speak with the ex's in the spirit of intellectual integrity and see how they respond? Oh, and I don't know how you feel about discussing word confusion but you might be interested to see the difference in pronounciation between the words cohort pronounced co- hort (h) and coerce, pronounced co-erse. (no h). I know of no word "coherse". See if you can find it. :)

[@mrsfloridablue54]

It's just not important how it's said in the bigger scheme of things. It's pseudo drama of your own making.

[@chuckbeattyo]

Monique Yingling, I strongly suspect, was a behind the scenes key person getting Marty back and reigned in. I think Marty finally got his sitdown mano o mano talk (or phone call) with Miscavige, that Marty wanted from the point Marty blew the second time. Marty's 3 books shows how far he progressed moving out of Scientology's world and his contributions to Scientology history, my final thoughts are he was "rekindled" by Monique, to not totally tear it all down, since he did wish for that IRS 1993 legal success, to stand, Marty stood by that legacy of his. The "Handling Marty Program" would be someday vital info to leak, which we've never seen out here, all of the "Handling Marty Program" and all of that programs revisions.

[@robertflint2549]

Formidable!

[@RedSoxFanatic4Life]

While perhaps not exactly “cults,” the political Left and Right in the USA have both become at least cult-like in practice. Both sides often make efforts to silence, or even destroy, members who fail to toe the party line. Look at what happened to people who challenged Presidents Obama and Trump during their respective administrations: those dissenters were vilified by their own party leaders and then cast aside, rendering them politically nonexistent.

[@poppeyp1083]

Hi Chris An English magician called Derren Brown has a programme he made where you see through careful selection he can make people go to the worst extremes against others. It's shocking to watch it played out as these folk are filmed and manipulated into making awful choices. This guy is so clever and so knowledgeable about human behaviour. I wonder if Marty just had had enough of the hassle and went for a settlement, but has to do some extra to make the cult happy, hence we see him completely flip around and the very critical videos against Leah and Mike. They might actually have something huge on Marty, mind you he must have alot of inside knowledge on the dear little leader. It is abit mad for him to accuse the antis of being a cult themselves, ridiculous ! Thanks for all the videos. Ps :. Do you know anything about the death of Bud Field and how DM purchased his boat shortly after, and that boat became is it the FreeWinds ? Something like that. Apparently he didn't want to sell the boat to the cult.

[@cheechalker8430]

I joined the Cult of Marty

[@ChrisSheltonMsc]

Come back....come back....

[@cheechalker8430]

Chris Shelton we call ourselves ‘The Martyrs’ and we all have matching lime green windbreakers

[@lisazdvoru1660]

You spoke about how people will leave a high control group and become almost fanatical about being "out", going so far as to accuse other "out" people as not being committed enough to the cause. Do you think this is unique to transitioning out of high control groups, or is this more of an extension of what happens to folks who go through any sort of identity or values change? I have seen similar patterns in people who have changed their minds on other polarizing issues.

[@nicktalk8589]

Very informative, I didn't know that some academics forwarded the propaganda (perhaps beyond restating or trying to make sense of it's fantastic ideas regarding a Scientologist's salvation). I feel sorry for Marty, I think he is very damaged and I can't get beyond that feeling no matter what others say. If he got paid off, GOOD, more money away from the cult. I don't think he speaks as he himself believes what he is saying and he gets details wrong, therefore I don't find his statements compelling. I thought that "Anti Scientology Cult" was coined by Scientology itself based on what I've read, I could be wrong, but they certainly have made this reference in their revenge hate dialogue. I can assure Scientology and David Miscavige that I hate you in my own unique way! I don't think there is anything of value or that aligns with or forwards America or it's ideals within Scientology. Great vid, thanks!

[@maryclaremayo6157]

I pledge my fealty to the Wrinkly Dog and Seven the Wonder Cat. All hail our Furry Overlords.

[@h.j7469]

Marthy Rathburn is a shady person

[@MrCouchIncident]

I miss Dwayne!

[@lss74]

Wonder where he went 😢😭

[@truediva18]

So Monique must have left Marty after he rejoined Scientology. I can't honestly believe that she supports him after the lawsuit and trauma.

[@pentfold6534]

Ex Scientology cult people seem to be very nice, often highly intelligent and always interesting, sadly usually abused as well. Marty though is in a league of his own - arrogant, never wrong etc. Always thought his attitude ironic considering he got taken in by a cult. Narcissism knows no bounds apparently.

[@eileenharder2473]

I want your T-shirt

[@kevinvillamor5570]

love being a scientologist

[@pentfold6534]

No. You confuse being a social animal with being tribal

[@MichaelYoder1961]

around 42:00 sounds like the LGBTQ movement - factions start happening and either you agree with ME or you're WRONG...

[@hondersshernandezlsm210]

Have you heard about Aaron Kyro ? He is a huge KZbinr who has millions of subscribers but apparently he is a Scientologist and gives them so much money that he makes from KZbin

[@seanmcmullen4274]

i think the my scientology movie broke him

[@claireeebee]

Yay first!

[@dwaynedibley1396]

Gratz 😎

[@claireeebee]

@@dwaynedibley1396 Thanks Chris!

[@dwaynedibley1396]

SECOND

[@annetteandersen5762]

Jesus says in mathews the vulcurs crowd around the carcus If you dont have Jesus you are easy target I know that now

[@tolowreading6807]

what the heck is a vulcor?

[@annetteandersen5762]

It is a Grib or Big Falcon bird who eats only dead animals in the desserts

[@Mimi2560A]

Did you mean "vultures?"

[@annetteandersen5762]

Mimi2560A yes, sorry, my spelling Was wrong.. now corrected. Thanks :-)

[@eileenharder2473]

You need Spellcheck, not Jesus

[@thetawind6908]

Chris, this doesn't ring true for me. I left the "Blues" twenty-five years ago, precisely because I could no longer agree with their agenda for America. I wasn't born into the "Reds", but over time, found that I agreed with their agenda for America much more than the "Blues".

[@Topjet9]

Scientology is beautiful religion and the tech works, but the cult element is problematic. The OT levels can be solo-audited by self versus the earlier stages. I would think that ex-scientologists so to speak would still want to continue the training routines, auditing, and climb the bridge to total freedom without being under the direct auspices of the official church. It is unclear to me why scientologists (OT-8s) themselves can't set up their own church and their own brand of auditing outside the official Church of Scientology. Keep the religion beautiful, but practice under different leadership. My confusion is how do own a religion? Leaving the church does or should not mean leaving the tech. Chris couldn't you help parishioners up the bridge of total freedom? Couldn't you make videos on the OT levels from memory? The Bible and Koran aren't copyrighted, so why is Scientology? How does a corporate entity preclude an individual's right to practice? So because of I'm not on IAS I can't actually audit? This doesn't make sense.

[@ivermec-tin666]

Chris has addressed all of these points in his videos. The answers are that the tech cannot be separated from the power game that is woven into the warp and weave of Dianetics per LRH; fair game is still in force; and the COS has a zero tolerance policy in regard to squirrel tech, per the writings of LRH. The COS is not a religion. It has no god. It is a business intended to separate people from their money, and to strip them of their agency and free will in the process. That is why it is not just a cult, but a dangerous and malicious cult which harms individuals and tears apart families. If you think that is beautiful, then you are inured to the suffering of others, or just a troll. There are vastly more ex scientologists than active members. Beauty lies in liberation from the sick games that LRH codified as Dianetics and pawned off as a "religion" by brutal and nefarious means.

[@Topjet9]

@@ivermec-tin666 I agree that current leadership is a cult, but times were different in the early years before misapplication of the tech. I'll have to watch more videos to ascertain why the Tech can't be separated from the cult. For somebody who is high-strung, high-anxiety, extremely fearful, who wants to regain autonomous control of his/her life the Training Routines are helpful in my opinion. Probably the bad outweighs the good, but there is still good in the teachings. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater may be reality, but it is not fair. fair For myself personally, there is benefit in taking what works for self (What is True is True for You) from Hubbard's writings/lectures. You are right and I'll go check out more of Chris's videos on the situation as to why the tech isn't specifically separable from the organization. Aren't we all on the same team trying to self-improve ourselves in life as the goal. People leave The Sea Org all the time, but still remain Scientologists. People leave and change churches all the time, but this doesn't mean they leave their religion after they stop going to a church.

[@ivermec-tin666]

@@Topjet9 COS is not a religion. It is a tax dodge. There was never a time when the tech was not used to manipulate, abuse, and control practitioners. The COS is a destructive mind control cult because that is what LRH intended for it to be. Of course it delivers some perceived value. It does so because it must. In just the same way that an abusive spouse delivers apologies, tokens of affection, and thrilling makeup encounters. But the abusive behavior always returns, because abuse is what abusers are about. The LRH phrase you quote is a simple rephrasing of Alistair Crowley's declaration, "Do what thou wilt". This is an invocation of the forces of Black Majick by the beast himself. LRH was enamored of Crowley, and a practitioner of sex majick, the attempt to conceive the spawn of Satan on Earth. He was demonic. You can't make this stuff up. It's too incredible to be fiction.