Serbia Train Station Collapse Possible Causes Novi Sad

[@lexmarks567]

Sounds like Shoddy repair work and cost cutting and added cosmetic changes that added weight to a weakened structure.

[@jeffostroff]

That’s the typical scenario in these cases, unfortunately.

[@Ms777Lena]

Exactly. Vučić is only doing project good for money laundry. Usually choosing streets, this one was an oversight.

[@jasusiakasi9164]

Do you know 65 million € was the cost of this "reconstruction " ? Typical money laundry! And they all wash hands from responsibility ! They claim :"We assure you responsible people for this tragedy will be found..." How ironic and satire. We know they took the money, that was most important for them ,not people lives ! 😢

[@Deni-u3i]

​@@jeffostroff I'm from Bosnia, sometimes we Bosnians, Serbs, Croats like to fight, but when there's a big tragedy like this, most people sympathize with their neighbors! I am so sorry for those 14 people, half of them were children, teenagers, two sisters aged 7 and 13! Recently in Bosnia, a place called Jablanica, 24 people died from a flood! but experts say that they wouldn't have died if it wasn't for the illegal quarry on the hill that crashed into the village! Serbs helped with rescue teams, money as well as Croats! This tragedy in Novi Sad, Serbia! The building was built in 1964 in what was then Yugoslavia! It was 60 years old, it would have been 60 years more without problems until a CHINESE company started to renovate it! They overloaded the old building and created a tragedy! I would never let the Chinese build my house! Yugoslavia was a serious country! hundreds of construction companies built in Libya, Iraq, Arab countries, Russia, everywhere! Now six small countries are the target of the Chinese and others

[@00mihec00]

​@@Deni-u3ichinese company was only working on that project... Its the engineres and designers fault that coused this.... They didnt do inspection on the old structure before pimping it out too look good

[@mixbic6143]

Corruption did this.

[@vanCaldenborgh]

Often it is also the technical university engineers are left out of all decision making positions (higher management ). In the 1960ties engineers made out about 50% of the management of technical companies or technical departments of the government. This radically changed in 1990ties, practically all over the world, now it is almost business administration only.

[@mixbic6143]

@vanCaldenborgh This is exactly what happens in Serbia these days. Corrupted and non educated politicians are making decisions, but now they will find some poor engineers to blame.

[@mariemccann5895]

@@mixbic6143 It's not just happening in Serbia, it is most of the world I think.

[@nenad2427]

70 years old

[@MakeMake-o2f]

@@nenad2427 To je tačno. Zapravo 60 godina ne 70 godina. Objekat ovih dimenzija i namene zahteva redovno i adekvatno održavanje, kao i nadzor, preventive radi u cilju uočavanja eventualnih anomalija . Takav pristup održavanja i nadzora objekta u celini omogućava uvid u stanje istog.

[@AlexM-t6h]

It doesn't matter when the building was designed. All structures made in Tito's Yugoslavia were made to last. This building was RENOVATED in 2021 and 2024. Now they are saying that only the canopy was not renovated, which is B.S. Buildings are not meant to collapse on their own in peace time, on a sunny afternoon. I think it's Chinese labor plus domestic corruption.

[@dragana2245]

They added glass on top where there used to be an open space and that extra weight was not supported.

[@lilien231]

@@dragana2245 I betonske ploče , političari lažu da nad nadtrešnicom ništa nije rađeno ? Od jednog Inženjera Džajića bili su opomenuti , i pismeno da to ne rade i zbog čega . Radila je Firma iz Novog Sada , još uvek kriju koja ?

[@puzzled012]

subcontractors were locals,project was local...

[@bruno.calico]

Blind trust is not acceptable in engineering matters. Whatever happened needs to be investigated and the responsible held accountable.

[@andmoreagain7]

It does not matter if it was renovated or not either. Where was the inspection? Who is making sure that buildings we all go through/beside are not going to end up falling on us? I hate this country and its people. Enough.

[@dawn1003]

Ne nagadjaj!Konstruktor je strucno obavio posao pre 60 god i stajala je bez problema! Ovi sto su renovirali nisu ispostovali sve predvidjene korake struke!

[@chilechichich465]

Живим у Новом Саду и увек ме хватала језа од конструкције на уласку у жељезничку станицу јер није имала потпорне стубове. То је био огроман прпоуст у основном пројекту и градњи. Ипак, реконструцкија се ради да се нешто старо поправи. Ако су већ радили реконструкцију, зашто нису додали стубове напред? Да буде горе, уместо ојачања конструкције, неко је додао значајно оптерећење на старе носеће елементе?!

[@firstlast-pt5pp]

professionals only work on things within their scope - the canopy was brittle - who is responsible for that assessment if any was required ?

[@pirana036]

Izvini odakle si ti sto pises na engleskom???

[@krlenjuska]

Tacno. Samo sto je 60 godina jako dug period i realno bi bilo da su je srusili i napravili novu. Srbija je puna ovakvih gradjevina - jedva stoje i odavno ne ispunjavaju nikakve uslove ali se iz vise razloga ne ruse a ne kontrolisu se uopste jer ovde za to realno niko nije zaduzen. Ja ne mislim da je problem u ovom slucaju sadasnja vlast jer je npr Laundz izgoreo za vreme prosle vlasti i nikakve promene se nisu desile povodom toga. Posle toga se desio pozar u kontrastu i takodje nije bilo nikakve epohalne promene. Nece je biti ni posle ovoga. Vlast ce se promeniti jednog dana ali nista se veliko realno promeniti nece. Do sledece katastrofe i tako u krug...

[@tkdivb]

​@@krlenjuskaBudimpesta i Bec su puni zgrada iz 50 - ih godina 20-og veka, pa ih niko ne rusi niti same padaju.

[@Paco1337]

They cleaned up quickly to destroy evidence

[@mir-jan3496]

A father and his two kids 9 and 6 years old died, it is unforgivable.

[@admiralgma]

grandfather

[@jeffostroff]

That is heart wrenching, and also was it a young soccer player and his beautiful girlfriend?

[@admiralgma]

@@jeffostroff yes....its heartbreaking....

[@mir-jan3496]

@@jeffostroff That I didn't knew, so sorry. Most of them were young people, they travel.

[@bnast6849]

It's all terrible, among the victims there was a 75 year old man that wanted to go home after finishig paperwork for his hip replacement. His Family said he was very happy about it and had a lot of plans.

[@lilip4781]

Thank you for spreading the word 🖤

[@jeffostroff]

Glad you enjoyed the video.

[@hipikbb]

Enjoyed?!

[@jankovicmisa]

Few months ago the grass was removed and very massive glass and steel frame was added which eventually over extended those cross hanging supporting columns.

[@J4ckCr0w]

And marble, in total amount of 30 tonnes.

[@firstlast-pt5pp]

​@@J4ckCr0w- when were they added? - because they said the recent works did not involve the canopy

[@firstlast-pt5pp]

note the glass curtain is still intact and not a crack I can see

[@J4ckCr0w]

@firstlast-pt5pp Of course, they say, because they are guilty. They removed the old thin marble, put a thicker one, added more concrete, metal trusses on top, glass and all that in the amount of 30 tonnes without reinforcing the old hanging beams. It simply sheared them all off except the right first one. That was a counterweight for the entire roof, which is now also structurally unstable and downright dangerous.

[@J4ckCr0w]

@@firstlast-pt5pp Imagine the thickness then.

[@YamadaSena]

I'm from Novi Sad, you can notice that the canopy is attached to the roof with those criss-crossing black cables or rods. It was calculated by the guarantor to carry a certain weight, but those who renovated it, put a load on the canopy, it is enough for only one of those black rods or cables to give way, and then everything is pulled out in a chain, and then the canopy of 100 tons falls on people. And to make it worse, they put benches there for people waiting for the bus to sit there.

[@adriano8679]

Presudno je izgleda što su te noseće vešaljke (sajle pričvršćene za krov) potpuno korodirale, a to niko nije kontrolisao, što je katastrofa i meni potpuno neshvatljivo

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, that is a possible scenario, the over-stressed supports could have easily failed

[@MeiZimepre]

Imate izjave ljudi koji su radili na tom projektu i lepo kazu da je nastresnica preoterecena ..na nastresnicu su nakacili aluminisku konstrukciju koja je nosila teske staklene ploce plus .. A to su uradili posle posete predsednika kompletno su sve ponovo radili ... Za svaku posetu ministara i usranog predsenika su dovodili posebne firme koje su to sminkali iqko nije stanica bila gotova.. Imate na UNS kanalu sve dokaze i izjave ...

[@YamadaSena]

@@adriano8679 Verujem da nisu renovirali to se nebi dogodilo, arhitekta nije kriv, da je arhitekta kriv to bi se desilo mnogo ranije, ne sada nakon renoviranja. To je arhitekta iz doba kada nije bilo javasluka, doba Jugoslavije, arhitekta je proracunao koliko moze da drz, a oni su optererili vise nego sto je dozvoljeno, ankeri su popustili, desila se tragedija, I jos gore stavili klupe dole. Stvar je potresns jer bilo ko od nas ili nase porodice su mogle biti tamo.

[@TamasHejja]

Why you clear my post?​@@jeffostroff

[@PejicVladimir]

It was just a green carpet on top, but they added heavy glass panels on those openings, and that was never there in the original design. Actually on the new footage first section that fell was on the right, just slightly faster then the rest of it.

[@mikibl]

Very true and correct. The structure started collapsing from the right to left. Very right cable was snapped first from the mounting point in concrete cantilever construction. All other support cables were snapped from the top of the bulding. This very right mounting point where the mouting got ripped off may give more insight if it preserved?

[@Sedmica527]

Najcudnije od svega da tolika terasa nije imala potporne stubove..

[@mir-jan3496]

I ja se pitam, za sigurnost nicega nije previse. Onolika betincina na sajlama.

[@adriano8679]

@@mir-jan3496 I most na Adi je na sajlama, ako ovako budu kontrolisane narednih godina neizbežna je nova katastrofa!

[@mindfortress105]

da da da, kriv je projektant od pre 60 godina, niko od ovih sto su bili placeni da to odrzavaju nije kriv, niko od ovih sto su nadgledali renoviranje nije kriv.

[@ede_1]

Tebi je čudno, drugima nije. To je konzolna ploča, ista stvar kao balkon na kući; upravo je poenta da nema stubove ispod nego se drži samo sa jedne strane

[@mir-jan3496]

@@ede_1 Nije ovo kuca, nego zeljeznicka stanica.

[@crvenazvezda1956]

Iiiiiii 🥺🥺😱😱😱 SRAMOTA ZA VLAST,ARHITEKTU,IZVODJACE, KOMISIJU, GRADJEVINSKU INSPEKCIJU

[@MakeMake-o2f]

Već sam odgledao prilog i saslušao isti. Ozbiljan pristup temi, odnosno ovom incidentu. Po struci nisam građivanac, ali vodeći se logikom smatram da je izvođač radova pre rekonstrukcije( renoviranja)trebao da se osvrne na prvobitni projekat i na osnovu istog da analizira šta se može rekonstruisati, kako i u kojoj meri? Isto tako smatram da svaki objekat treba redovno i adakvetno održavati, što podrazumeva i redovan nadzor, proveru istog u celini.

[@zoricavaljan5856]

I was in novi sad on October 8th taking the train to Beograd. I visited Serbia after 40 years_ its a beautiful city. That could have been me and my sister. So sad for all those families who lost loved ones.

[@cokrlicix]

65 milion euros was spent on renovations, and they did not renoveted the canopy, but they did put the new layer of tiles and paint. Making it heavier than it previously was. Chinese consortium that did the work, is not to blame, they did what was asked of them. Govermant is responsible for this, they are corupted to the bone, they had enough money to build a new building and somehow all of the money was spent on a facade, without doing a canope, only critical part of the structure.

[@afrosrb7828]

Honestly I've been expecting something like this would happen, because Serbia been having insane many NEW and RENOVATED construction going on the last years and because I'm hearing president Vučić often saying _"I'm asking the Chinese constructors to work fast and finish this or that project in a certain time",_ which indispensable forces the workers to work fast, which again leads to making mistakes easier. I'm a learned bricklayer and construction draftsman and from what you've shown, it's actually clear that the additional weight was just the final trigger that caused the collapse, hence it's obviously partially the engineer's fault. Concrete should last more than just 60 years, but there're many factors that come into play which also cause a built to weaken. One thing is sure though, these two steel reinforcements at 16:30 WERE NEVER ENOUGH to achieve the actual required stability! You'd need a whole web-like reinforcement, that goes through the link and connects the MAIN BUILDING'S PART with the CANOPY. And even after that, it wouldn't be enough without additional columns underneath! Just a year ago I traveled from Belgrade to Novi Sad with the train and past under this canopy while leaving the station and went under it tens of times in my life. It gives me shivers

[@jeffostroff]

The Champlain Towers South collapse that I did 3 dozen videos on since 2021 collapse, showed everyone with a rude wake up call how water can seep into concrete over time, attack the rebar rods, rust them, and cause spalling, weakening and cracking of the concrete.

[@duskobozovic1570]

​@@jeffostroffLike the Morandi Bridge in Genoa, Italy in 2018.

[@jelenajelena3466]

Korupcija i SNS mafija

[@gezimlimoni2319]

Tacno,, samo dodaj Jos kineski standardi...pozz iz Prishtine

[@nadacalo9289]

Ne lupaj gluposti!

[@nadacalo9289]

​@@gezimlimoni2319Kosovo and Metohija is Serbia🇷🇸

[@jelenajelena3466]

@@nadacalo9289 samo ti jedi sendvič i neka ti.je prijatno

[@gezimlimoni2319]

@@nadacalo9289 Nikad a mozda ni tad! Lepo ti je receno jednom,,,e pa eto opet Jos jednom....Samo ti jedi sendvic I neka ti je prijatno!!!

[@mindfortress105]

Corruption and lack of maintenance, simple as

[@slavisamalisic3896]

Najgore sto moze da se desi jednom narodu je da ima nestrucnu, polupismenu, korumpiranu i bahatu vlast...upravo zbog takve vlasti je, u Novom Sadu, poginulo 14 ljudi, zena i dece, a troje ce, ako prezive, ostati teski invalidi...

[@J4ckCr0w]

What happend was that anchors were sheared of due to excessive weight of added marble and glass construction in excess of 30 tonnes. That and added corruption led to deaths.

[@ivanstepanovic1327]

This is not the first time that something recently built or reconstructed in Serbia has collapsed. There were roads, support walls for the roads... But nothing this big, nothing in a major city and there were no victims so far. Thus it was easy to cover up. Long live tofu-dreg 😥😥

[@matija92]

I really appreciate you covering this, thank you!

[@diavolo974]

Glavno je da ce sad javnost da zamajavaju ko je kriv i na kraju nikom nista... Kao i za sve drugo sto urade, umetnici u precutavanju...

[@grenadier4702]

I walk there regularly and it's just horrifying, especially knowing I could've easily been one of the victims...

[@jeffostroff]

I would also steer clear of cranes

[@aleksandarmatevski1258]

It's a horrific and extraordinary tragedy. What's especially disturbing is that construction is taking place everywhere around the Balkans (Belgrade, Bucharest, Skopje and more) by the same/similiar contractors in the same scheme/chain on inspections and approvals. It was just a question of time something like this would happen, and unfortunately it's will most likely happen again.

[@marijacekic5236]

Jao tako mi je žao nedužnog naroda. Pozz iz Slavonije.

[@augustvonmackensen9785]

Seems like all the “A” frames ripped out of the roof awning and came down with the rest of the structure, which to me would indicate: a. Anchor point failure due to overloading b. Anchor point failure due to environmental influences over time c. Combination of both aforementioned scenarios ( to me, most likely scenario )

[@milenatos]

A is the correct answer

[@kucavetrova]

The canopy was a part counterlever, part hanged on the rod bracings, which I think is what you call "A" frames. Possibility is that the "A" rods were also taking weight from the roof to liberate the internal station space from columns, in which case the canopy acted as a counterweight, and in case of canopy colapse, the roof load bearing might be now compromised, and the roof prone to colapse. It would require examining the sectional drawings of the station to determine the actual roles of those bracings/"A" frames/load hangers. However, in my view, the forensics should look up to find a sound record of colapse, mobile phones, cctv, ...etc. in try to determine whether the colapse of the whole structure was in sound simultaneous, or more like sequential like mashine gun sound, as there were repetitive structural elements, which very unlikely colapse all at once. This may give a hint of what happened first, and caused further destruction. It is indicative that the canopy fell nose-down, and beams connections to building still kept to some extend forming a triangular shape of debris in places. My quess is if the beams connections collapsed first we would have more of a snaky shape of destruction as the rods/"A" frames would give some minimal time of holding and resistance before colapsing. It is also indicative that no rod/"A"frame has left hanging; they all have detached from the top. Jeffostroff is rightfully pondering about the canopy to the right , and I just want to say that the canopy to the right is part of a completely different building and structure by it. They are just connected by a dilatation joint to look like one building. This is why it stayed intact.

[@markeeecmarkoni2855]

The other day I commented from Croatia about Hotel Dubrovnik in Argentina and here is a comment two days later on this unfortunate event in the city I was visited and which has one of the most famous festivals in Europe.Nice memories.......sorry about the accident

[@jeffostroff]

yup still collecting up info on the Argentina collapse

[@jelenatroyanska3656]

Dragi moj, nije niko tu kolabirao, osim rodbine. Nije se desio kolaps saobraćaja, niti ljudi. Nevini ljudi su IZGINULI. IZ GI NU LI!!! ČETRNAESTORO ljudi, žene, DECA, dečica i omladinci.

[@mm17101978]

All throughout the country frankly sir! Thank God a man in his 70s waiting for his bus got up from a bench 10 seconda before everything collapsed and he survived! Excellent video! Sadly I am very pessimistic about "the investigation", my wife is Serbian, we often travel there, I speak the language. No wonder she left Serbia in 1995! I have been in quite a few train and bus stations in Serbia, I am worried about all of them now!

[@milos929]

Oskara i ekipu na Robiju !!!

[@mmaus688]

You neglected to mention a very important thing in this video, and that is the steel cables that came out of the roof of the station and connected to the overhang. Those cables are what actually held the entire structure in place, not the concrete beams going into the building. There are two videos, one is from across the street where you can very clearly see all cables simultaneously fail and the entire overhang falls at the same time. The question that is currently being investigated is which of these failed: A. The cables themselves, B. The anchors on the roof or C. The concrete around the anchors. The structure was designed essentially to be held solely by those cables, thats why the connection to the building superstructure looks like a cold joint.

[@milenatos]

That is correct. The "A" cables were those bearing the tension as the structure was actually hanging from the roof. Another important thing here: the roof and the canopy were in tension where canopy also provided the stability of the roof. Now that the canopy is gone and the tension is gone, the roof is not stable anymore

[@jeffostroff]

I'll have to check out those videos and see if I can find out more about the investigation.

[@mmaus688]

@@jeffostroff Hope to see another video on this topic, however knowing the government i doubt many details will be made available to the public other than what was gathered from eyewitnesses and photos.

[@vladimirradosavljevic6354]

Smatram da je ovo pravi pristup problemu. Pored detaljne pretrage da li je i koliko opterećenja naknadno dodato na nadstrešnicu (bez dodatne računice), ipak fokus treba staviti na tačke gde se čelične zatege kače o testerasti krov zgrade. Da li se pojavila korozija na koju niko nije obratio pažnju ili je neko prilikom izvođenja radova na ovom delu krova železničke stanice krajnje nestručnom intervencijom oslabio veze i učinio da se zatege sve u istom momentu nažalost otkače?

[@aleksandarolujic7673]

Those cables together with the canopy provide tension to the whole roof. Now that the canopy is gone, the whole building is in danger.

[@BOKIBACKA]

Sve se to popravi ali se životi više nemogu vratiti!

[@ypcomchic]

Rip. Sad to hear this. Sounds like the glass weight along with the cracked cement did it in. Thanks for posting this video!

[@Darkkfated]

It's almost like people forget how freaking heavy water is. Go fill a 5-gallon bucket to the top with water and pick it up - it weighs damn near 50 pounds. 10-ish pounds per gallon. Now, just imagine how many gallons can soak into that grass/astroturf after a rainfall (Or, worse, into the sand on the pool deck at Champlain Towers South that Jeff referenced). Now consider just how much static load that adds to all the load-bearing pieces of these structures - static load that the original designers almost certainly never accounted for.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, water can add a tremendous amount of weight to a structure.

[@jacojojo42]

8lbs per gallon it’s a lot

[@billd66]

I mean, a kilogram is literally defined as the weight of 1 liter of water.

[@drljacamilos773]

A tek kad napada sneg od pola metara.

[@Garth2011]

@@jacojojo42 8.34 lbs per gallon of water.

[@J4ckCr0w]

Regarding evidence analysis, the subcontracting local company that actually did all the work took of all the material that collapsed from the accident site to be ground down and destroyed.

[@tomislavkobilarov5704]

Odakle ti ta informacija, da li je to tačno? Poz.😮

[@J4ckCr0w]

@tomislavkobilarov5704 Check out english translafed news, was confirmed by ministers which were onsite.

[@J4ckCr0w]

Also, all cables were cut and in front of the station right now.

[@DepressedLemur9]

@@tomislavkobilarov5704 Jeste tačno, isti izvođač radova, i to zvanično. To ti je onaj što se kezio te večeri, ima snimak

[@MelJandric]

I'm commenting before seeing the whole video, so forgive me if anyone else pointed this out. There are several videos from Serbian TV, one of the engineers stated that the canopy was originally covered with tiles and during renovation they simply covered the tiles with another layer just to make it pretty.... increasing the weight....

[@jeffostroff]

yes i mentioned that in the video, and they added glass too

[@milanbabic3966]

Niko nezna šta je razlog padu Nadstrešnice , kojoj je rok trajanja istekao pre 14 godina Po glavnom projektu izgradnje Železničke stanice iz 1964 god stoji da je rok trajanja Nadstrešnice na ulazu ŽS. 50 godina. Izdržala je ona tih 50 godina i više, al Naprednjačku Rekonstrukciju nije...

[@code123ns]

You are missing two things here: one, it was tied to the rooftop above by those black columns you can see. All of the hangers broke instantly at the top - except the rightmost one. That one broke at the bottom, right where this canopy was joining that other one that remained standing. There is now a frontside video of the colapse and you can see that it progressed from right to left. Secont - they added a gallery on the other side of that entrance. Possibly, it was tied into the same beam that was holding the canopy on the other side.

[@miraana1]

Thank you for your analysis sir. Very detailed

[@borismalovic-fn8je]

Sve OK, samo je tema promašena. Ovde nije ključno konzolno uklještenje, ovde su ključna čelična užad(sajle), koje su vezane za krov i nose betonsku konstrukciju(svu njenu težinu po vertikali), uz pomoć konzole, koja sprečava kretanje u horizontalnoj ravni. Pucanjem sajli (koje je trajalo manje od sekunde) cela nastrešnica pada, brže nego kula od karata. Armatura na konzoli je glatka(danas se uglavnom koristi orebrena), samo se izvukla pod težinom greda, ili je popucala i za posledicu ima 14 mrtvih i troje teško povređenih. Ali jako je teško na osnovu slika nešto zaključiti, potrebni su detaljni pregledi i proračuni materijala i izvedenih radova.

[@rajkotodorovic1871]

Glatka armatura je mekano gvozdje. Rebrasta armatura je celik visoke zatezne cvrstoce .

[@MichaelSmith-cp7gm]

I don't see grass on top of the fallen structure.

[@jeffostroff]

yes, so I don't know it it was removed recently, or if it was a carpet that was rolled out of the way to rescue survivors

[@borivojejasic9934]

​@@jeffostroff hi from Serbia, if you need some info/data, i can try to send it for you. Works were done last year and the structure was messed up etc. Iron was made and it was made heavier.

[@borivojejasic9934]

​@@jeffostroffplatform on the inside was also added

[@videoizazov]

The grass was artificial

[@s.nemanjaa]

​​@@jeffostroff It is a green carpet, not real grass. But carpet was removed during last reconstruction and glass panes were added. However, those panes shouldn't be an issue as they don't add a massive weight. Glass is 8mm thick. The day when it collapsed was sunny, and it wasn't raining for days. The structure is designed to hold a few dozen cm of snow. Seems like anchors were not reconstructed and A holders couldn't hold the weight anymore.

[@radmilaobradovic9601]

PALA JE KAO HELIKOPTER, U SEKUNDI. LJUDI MOJI NISU SVI MALOUMNI. STVAR JE JASNA!!!!!!

[@faccebookk3704]

The purpose of that canopy is actually counter weight that held the roof structure. No engineer, no matter how good he was, and those who designed the station were top notch, at the world level, cannot introduce the variable called idiocy into the static equations. With the fall of that canopy, we come to a situation where the roof is also compromised. Personally, I think the drop is due to the work on the canopy and not the added weight. Of course, adding weight is pointless because it defeats the purpose of the canopy as a counterweight. It is very important what and how they worked on the canopy itself. In order to determine this, the supporting elements should be inspected, and the nature of the fracture should be determined.

[@赤青白]

An investigation into who was responsible is currently taking place, but what we know is that in 2020 a Chinese infrastructure company was contracted to renovate the building, which was built in 1964. However SOMEONE in government did not allow the Chinese workers to touch the canopy roof. There is not much to ponder, it was someone either from the local authorities of the city of Novi Sad, or the Ministry of Infrastructure.

[@mariemccann5895]

Has the signature of corrupt cowboy builders.

[@monizei]

Čitam također, da su betonske blokove koje su držali sipove na krovu, sklonili pri rekonstrukciji istog. Tako da te sipke nisu imale nista što ih je gore držalo.

[@MolinaUdofo]

Since the cantilevered beams are still dangling from the wall, the pictures suggest that the tension-members' anchors on the roof gave in. Not an expert, just an observation.

[@jeffostroff]

yes it seems that way. Remember concrete is weak in tension, but strong in compression

[@angelatanurdzic7508]

Hvala za ove iscrpne informacije. 👍

[@BurnabyGardener]

The canopy was suspended with cables from the "zig-zag" shape roof. I think you've haven't addressed that in your video. I've found a picture online with all black cables that are broken and are laying on the ground, except the last one where the canopy remained standing up.

[@andrijailic1079]

I won’t rush to conclusions but few pertinent facts are available. 1.There was work done on the canopy and glass and marble was added. 2. Due to added weight the anchors probably snapped. 3. Cantilever beams show structural rust that probably exacerbated the problem. 4. Last but not the least this is a textbook example of money laundering thru government funds where subprime work is done and astronomical amounts of money are pocketed into the ruling party’s cronies whose companies did this “great job”.

[@afrosrb7828]

Regarding the pronunciation of the name, it's a Đ (can also be written as DJ), pronounced as a soft J in English, like the name ĐOKOVIĆ or DJOKOVIĆ. And the last letter Ć is the well known letter at the end of the typical Serbian surnames, pronounced like the CH in the name from the famous NBA head coach Gregg Popovich or the actress Milla Jovovich

[@jeffostroff]

Thanks! That explains it perfectly how to pronounce

[@marikakovacevic5989]

Ovo je prilično korektna analiza.

[@Jazzinthedark84]

Would you consider doing a video about the structural failings that led to so much death in the Grenfell tower fire of June 2017 in the UK? I'd be interested to hear your perspective on the many failures that led to a disastrous loss of life.

[@jeffostroff]

I had considered it, fires like that have always fascinated me, as the coconut grove fire in Boston which my grandfather covered working for the local paper

[@Jazzinthedark84]

@jeffostroff I think it would be a great topic for you. Especially with how thorough your coverage is. From what I've learned just by watching your videos it seems like Grenfell is a textbook example of how to do everything wrong.

[@jm036]

I don't think there were any structural failures in grenfell, far from in fact, the structure held. Rather the stay put in case of fire doctrine didn't consider that the building would be one day covered in very flammable insulation materials.

[@Jazzinthedark84]

@@jm036 So non fireproof/incorrectly fitted doors, windows etc intended to compartmentalise each individual apartment, that... well... didnt; isn't structural? The way the external cladding behaved and caused fire to enter apartments from the outside... Isn't a structural issue? Yes the building didn't fall, and thank goodness because who knows how many more would have died if it had, or what other buildings nearby might have fallen as a result (several were severely damaged as it was mainly by the heat) but the structure can still fail without total or partial collapse.

[@jm036]

@Jazzinthedark84 Yes, it isn't.

[@mikioni]

Ne moze se ocekivati nista dobro od toliko tona betona i gvozdja. Pa jos ako nije dobro uradjeno.

[@emilijavulic1663]

As I understood in original interview of Mr Djajić (Dj" and "Ć" like "Djoković"), the concrete gaps were filled with big paper packets that were used for cement.

[@jeffostroff]

Yes that sounds like a poor engineering solution to a potentially deadly problem.

[@m1k4c]

Architect Stojadinovic said that the company which did renovations few years back reported possible structural problems, but it was Institute for the Protection of Cultural Monuments (as usual in Serbia) that prevented the city from doing anything about it. Building was made by the communist regime in a relatively modern history, so modern that you can't really even call it "historical", but there you go. This roof was never supposed to be made out of concrete. It was hanging down from the upper ceiling (not the wall), hanged by steel wires. So, there was probably some material wear and tear, material tiring due to its age, changes in temperature etc... Unfortunatelly, when those renovations were finally done, I'm citing the said architect again "they solved observable, instead of structural problems". This same Institute for the Protection of Cultural Monuments is preventing solution to the main traffic problem in my town (Uzice), preventing the city to solve the problem of single worst town intersection because of the stupid facade on a private house on that intersection. Which is admitedly ancient history compared to 50yo station, probably early 20th century. Btw, if anyone missed it - every house in any center of any old town will likely have an old facade, you can use stupid facades to stop everything in this time and prevent from moving forward. A guy who owns the house couldn't take 20.000 eur if he was selling - for the entire house, not the stupid facade, it's in sorry condition, falling apart, entire thing is dangerous and ugly - but entire town is hostage to some corrupt agency that doesn't even have an office in our town. Also - they don't take care of these old houses - no one does. They're not really crazy, they wouldn't spend a single dime from state budget to maintain a fkn facade, it's just an excuse to take bribe, that's how entire thing works. Not entire Serbia, just this agency. And generally state tenders in my town. Sad thing about 14 dead in Novi Sad is that nothin's gonna change... Just some government crocodile tears for a week or two and then back to business.... Maybe they replace one agency with another, invent other kind of problem, but without corruption entire state would crumble. Anyway... If the question is "who killed 14 people", I just wanted to give my take on it all. And, obviously, I'm not some kind of "anti-monument" activist, we have beautiful medieval churches and castles as well as modern achitecture marvels, even some Ottoman-period buildings are worth preserving, but keeping a dangerous roof on a train station because it represents 50yo communist architecture is just mindless. Unfortunatelly, Novi Sad wasn't in position to offer bribe to the Agency, it seems this is the reason why we should privatize.

[@chilechichich465]

Great example was that building in Miami, very reminiscent of this railway station in Novi Sad: 1. badly designed static component from the beginning (no supporting columns) 2. it was waiting to collapse in both cases 3. added unnecessary weight after 40 years (Miami) and after 60 years (Novi Sad) 4. incompetence of the people involved in every step of construction, maintenance and supervision

[@POPY868]

Pozdrav prijatelju dobar video ste uradili. Iznenadijo sam se da znate Srpski?

[@saleprofi122]

Pa da i nije ali jeste postoje procedure u gradjevinarstvu koje se moraju ispostovati.To znaci da se ceo objekat mora snimiti uociti slabe tacke pogotovo ako u taj objekat ulazi veliki broj gradjana.

[@amer5356]

Svaka cast za video

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

To me, the beam behind the cantilevers didn't look sufficient to support the cantilevered roof - it was rather thin and narrow, and with glass above and below didn't seem to have a lot of structural support. In the before pictures I saw black (presumably steel) rods connecting the roof which later collapsed to the corrugated roof above. In the post collapse images those black rods are gone, but their mounting points can be seen in the (apparently) undamaged upper roof. I'm thinking those rods may have been the primary weight bearing elements for the lower roof, with the cantilevers and beam behind them holding the roof in place laterally without bearing it's weight. My guess would be that the bolts (or equivalent) attaching those rods to upper roof sheared due to some combination of age/corrosion and the additional load of the new glass panels.

[@dzonikg]

It was much thicker before reconstuciotion ,find video "Železnička stanica Novi Sad - Počela rekonstrukcija" from 2022 (2:18 long ) and go to 0:20 and you will see that it had much wider support beams

[@TheGrejp]

​@@dzonikg The wide beams above the doors weren't structural, it was just a cover between two beams

[@dzonikg]

@@TheGrejp So not true,there are photos from under before reconstruction , they were from reinforced concrete

[@TheGrejp]

@@dzonikg That doesn't mean it was structural. There's a photo from 1963 when the station was under construction, you can see that the structural beams are only narrow. The wider parts had nothing to do with the collapse, but the poor work quality during reconstruction, added weight and corruption did.

[@scottstewart5784]

I don't think those were cantilevered beams. I think MOST of the load was carried by the rods.

[@Goran-xn2bt]

BRAVO ZA OVU IZVAREDNU ANALIZU 👏👏👏VRLO POUCNO SVE TREBA LI BI SVI KUCI PROVERITI NASE TERASE KROVOVE I OSTALU FASADU POGOTOVO NA STARIM ZGRADAMA

[@nesad1234]

ne dijelim vase misljenje koje ste iznjeli u ovom vasem prilogu. mislim da ne razumijete uopce ideju kako je ova nadstresnica projektirana. prvo da vamodgovorim zasto je dio u nastavku ostao netaknut. jednostavo tu je dilatacija. tako da uticaj sa nadstresnice nije se mogao prenijeti na taj drugi dio. odgovor na vase drugo razmisljanje o koliciniarmature u gornjoj zoni. pa to uopce nisu konzole kako ih vi nazivate vec grede, gje je jedan oslonac pridrzan zategom. vjerorojatno ce se prekontrolirati proracun, koji po mom dosadasnjem iskustvu ce sigurno biti korektan. objekat je stajao decenije i nije bilo nikakvih problema. ono sto bi mogao biti jedan od uzroka je boljka koja je na ovim prostorima prisutna, a to je slabo ili nikakvo odrzavanje objekata, te da je usled dotrajalosti popustila jedna zatega koja je izazvala lancanu reakciju. drugi moguci razlog je nestrucno gazdovanje objektom i ne promisljeno dodavanje viska opterecenja koje je izazvalo lancanu reakciju. treca pretpostavka je da je mozda sam izvodjacdoprinjeo svojim aktivnostima da je doslo do havarije. rezultati istrage ce pokazati sta je pravi uzrok, pod uvjetom da to politika ne zataska. slike urusene nadstresnice jasno pokazuju da su popustile zatege, a ne grede koje su to nosile.

[@marksmediatv7734]

I was in the train station 12 hours prior to the collapse. They were working on a new balcony that was being added on to the same wall the canopy roof was attached and new sliding doors were being installed.

[@George-xi4bu]

very good analysis !!

[@iasmina6692]

Thank you for such a good analysis. I live in that city,and I used to pass in front of that building every time I arrive in the city by bus. There.s a wide sidewalk in front of it and those benches, on a sunny day, are almost inviting you to sit down under that structure. of course nobody is thinking that it will fall on their head. it.s chilling, May they rest in peace, there were also children among the victims. Imagine a woman left her 6 year old son on the bench and she went to buy the bus ticket :(

[@NekuraCa]

The two roofs don't look to be structurally connected.

[@tomislavkobilarov5704]

They are not, it is terrace of restoran !!

[@michaelsmith9590]

From photos shown, yes.

[@Rose50Reno]

Thanks Jeff for the information and your initial questions. Just after watching this video with the mention of the Chinese consortium, I went to The China Show channel. 3 weeks ago they streamed - Nothing is Safe in China - Now We Know Why - Episode #233 When you get past their silliness around 36:54 Soft Power Hour starts. The taxi car port failure looks somewhat similar to the Serbian Train Station collapse. Inquiring minds wonder . . . The tape measure comparisons (55:22) was chilling at best.

[@neznamdeteram9494]

Preziveti u toj supljini moze se smatrati pukom srecom i refleksu zrtveda ga par tona ne udari u glavu.

[@user-uc9pn4gd8m]

Kakav refleks kad je pala za sekund?

[@KiselinaSRB]

I hope you do an update on this in time. There is a security camera video capturing the collapse form the out side. And you can see the right side its left end start going down first then the rest of the structure followed ...

[@robertstanley3248]

Did the rods from the roof to the cantilever perform vertical support or were they decorative. I don't see any hanging from the roof. Did an initial failure somewhere else result in additional load on the rods? Or did the rods start to fail at the rooftop?

[@birdfly8959]

Vjerojatno zamor materijala.

[@dominicm2175]

He seems completely oblivious that all of the black rod supports going to the upper roof all failed at the upper roof connection, and that there is no grass seen in photo of the collapse

[@asmodeuso27]

those rods seems to be aesthetic only

[@nkelm452]

I agree

[@ddm965]

@@asmodeuso27 Grešite . Držale su je utege-sajle s jedne a sa druge strane stupovi pod horizontalnim serklažom . Vizualno više od pola dubine nadstrešnice se ponašalo kao proste grede sa momentima sila u po dva zgloba. To se prepoznaje upravo po većoj količini armature u donjoj zoni na mestu loma greda/ Stanica je u vreme izgradnje bila vrlo napredne i sofisticirane konstrukcije. Renoviranjem dodato opterećenje je uticalo na rušenje konstrukcije .Po ovoj površini nadstrešnicu je očekivalo dodatno opterećenja od 30-40 tona snega... Opterećenje stakla sa konstrukcijom nije bilo veće od 10-15 tona a pošto je nadstrešnica pala "bez" 50 cm snega na sebi "krađa" od proračuna tog opterećenja bila je propust ali ne jedini-mermerne obloge,zapušeni slivnici, nesavesni izvođači, loši nadzori svega je tu bilo...

[@ddm965]

​@@nkelm452

[@ddm965]

Da. Kada je pukao prvi spoj svi su pukli...

[@bashchelik100]

thanx mister Jeff!

[@jeffostroff]

You're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed the video!

[@hipikbb]

We do not enjoy, we sad!

[@panbanana70]

Nesposobna i korumpirana vlast naprednjačka vlast je učinila ovo zlo

[@gazibengazi]

A major tragedy. The structure on the canopy is a simple green carpet. Aside from repainting, no reconstruction was undertaken, nor was any additional weight added. Such constructions are typically designed with a safety factor of 1.5-2.0. The canopy itself weighs nearly 150 tons. No accident results from a single factor but rather from a series of interrelated causes. In this case, it is most likely due to a lack of inspections over the years.

[@Traderjoe]

And where is this grass in the collapse wreckage pictures? I didn’t see any.

[@jeffostroff]

The grass may have been removed recently, or if it as artificial turf, it may have been rolled out of the way.

[@JohnStedman-d4s]

It appears that the series of triangulated tubular metal tensile ties which were connecting the cantilevered porch roof to the projecting ends of the upper concrete roof beams were sequentially overloaded and failed almost simultaneously in a "zipper" effect. The cantilevered concrete beams which directly supported the porch canopy then became overloaded in turn, and the whole thing pancaked as one, giving almost no warning or time for those underneath to escape. Lack of structural redundancy, minimal or no safety factors and lacklustre quality control were probably the Causal Factors. Serbia is a country where much of the construction industry and the associated government oversight is deficient or corrupt, and "Building Control" is lax, so this was definitely a foreseeable and preventable tragedy and, although egregious negligence was almost certainly involved, there will be few repercussions. Just as Champlain Towers South was poorly built under the reign of corruption in Miami 40 years ago, so many such potential disasters lie in wait to take innocent lives just because criminals without morals or ethics are allowed to flourish.

[@zoltanmolnarcsikos4714]

Statikailag ez a leomlott síma tető egy egyszerü gerenda túlnyúlással amely az épület oszlopjára (pillérre) támaszkodik a másik oldalon pedig a az épület vasbetontetőszerkezetéhez volt felkötve (fekete acél profilokkal -idomacél). A leszakadás oka az acélrudak bekötésének elgyengülésében látom a fenti csomópontban -az épület vasbetontetőszerkezeténél. Lehet, hogy a kivitelezéskor a hegesztés minősége szolíd lett és az elmult 60 év alatt a korrózió is gyöngítette. Nem mondanám, hogy itt Szerbiában az építőipar és a kapcsolódó kormányzati felügyelet valamint az "Épületellenőrzés" és a kivitelezés hiányos vagy korrupt lenne.

[@ddm965]

​@@zoltanmolnarcsikos4714 Slažem se . Očito i jasno je mesto loma a i razlozi kolapsa konstrukcije. Ovde manjkao projekat procene postojećeg stanja pre projekta rekonstrukcije. Neko se isuviše oslonio na iskustvo... Jedna utega puca- kolaps i urušavanje u sekundi. Ovo je samo naizgled jednostavna konstrukcija. Doduše kada se vide one sferne grede ab rešetke gnezda u Pekingu ovo je ...

[@Danny-bd1ch]

Is the roof supporting the overhang, or is it the other way around?

[@jeffostroff]

The overhang supports itself by those cantilever beams that you see emerging from the wall horizontally. I think those black tubes are cosmetic.

[@stevanpejic8517]

​@jeffostroff I'm concerned that during the renovations more weight was applied to the canopy during the works. The grass is astroturf, but definitely additional moisture and weight with horizontal materials has played its tragic part.

[@V100-e5q]

@@jeffostroff I doubt that. Nobody puts decorative rods there if they would not have had a function. The beams coud not serve as cantilevers because there was no countermeasure to deal with the bending momentum the beams introduced into the wall. Also the few rods in the top layer hints to that. The rods supported one end and the now exposed big beam in the facade the other. Hence many rebar rods in the bottom layer and very few in the top layer. That looks pretty obvios to me. I would concentrate on the support rods coming from the main roof.

[@royreynolds108]

@@V100-e5q If nobody puts decorative rods up on a structure, I suggest you look at the FIC bridge failure. Those rods were just light pieces of pipe and the span was supposed to be a simply-supported span.

[@TheGrejp]

​@@jeffostroff Thank you for the analysis. Regarding the black tubes, most people from the area seem to claim that they were indeed structural and that the canopy is partially supported by the cantilever beams and partially hanging from the roof. They could be wrong, of course, but old photos taken during construction show the tubes already in place before the canopy was even finished, tied directly into the grid-like structure inside it, so I'm inclined to believe this. It could also explain why there was so little rebar, especially near the top of the beams.

[@ivokovacic9661]

čelična ovješenja i njihov spoj sa krovom??

[@jeffostroff]

Te čelične cijevi su vjerojatno samo kozmetičke, izvršavaju vrlo malo prenosa opterećenja, osim možda držati dio tog gornjeg krova, ali sjetite se čak i njihova težina počiva na vrhu donjeg krova koji se srušio, dodajući na opterećenje prema dolje na tom krovu. Those steel tubes are likely just cosmetic, performing very little load transfer, except maybe to hold up part of that upper roof, but remember even their weight is resting on top of the lower roof that collapsed, adding onto the downward load on that canopy roof.

[@CheefCoach]

@@jeffostroff Based on placement of the steel rebars on the concrete beams (which is down), those steel tubes were primary carrier.

[@ddm965]

@@jeffostroff pričaš gluposti

[@BlUdNIcaR]

​@@ddm965ti znaš bote sekte? Sudbina ti familije a prvo dece bila ispod nadstrešnice.

[@estradabih7977]

Na mjestu gdje su se zatege odvojile , beton, gotovo, neoštećen !

[@doktorzafejs5782]

This structure has been standing since 1964, and it was obviously well-designed and thoroughly calculated. Three years ago, they performed a ‘reconstruction’ of the building, but supposedly did not touch the canopy. The QUESTION IS WHETHER they did any work on the roof?? Because if they did, it’s possible that this is the cause.

[@doktorzafejs5782]

Imre Farkas, Milan Matović, Main Station, 1964

[@doktorzafejs5782]

When i say roof, i mean the roof of the building not the roof of the canopy.

[@jeffostroff]

I still think those black tubes were cosmetic, not load bearing

[@Tekwyzard]

@@jeffostroff If those black tubes were not merely cosmetic, it'd explain why there appears to me that there's a lot more rebar on the underside of the fallen beams. The extra rebar would be to resist the tension forces of the canopy being the counterweight for the roof of the train station, which would be trying to pull the canopy up. Were this to be correct, as a lot of respondents on here suggest, then as they also say, the whole roof, and indeed front wall of the station is no longer structurally safe. Someone has added too much weight somewhere, maybe even up on the stations roof as well as the canopy, and the design safety margins were too small, including age and maybe lack of proper maintenance, for the overall tensioning system to take the weight. Once the black tubes/rods or their anchorages let go, the feeble looking rebar atop the concrete beams didn't stand a chance of keeping the canopy up.

[@doktorzafejs5782]

​@@jeffostroff No, it’s not that simple. This building is protected by law as a cultural monument. The building and its surroundings were designed by a highly esteemed professor of that era. In the 1960s, material costs were extremely high in Yugoslavia, while labor was cheap, so architects competed to create the best solutions using as little material as possible. The roof is connected to the canopy with black tubes; the canopy actually serves as a counterweight, keeping the accordion-shaped roof stable across a large span. Now, the entire building is at risk, specifically the roof. By law, it should now be restored to its original appearance, as it is a cultural heritage site.

[@ResidBabovic]

Internal gallery parallel with external overhanger was added in process of construction, and it may endangered construction in process of installing. Safety standards were pretty advanced in the time of construction, and civil engineers of the time were amongst better in this part of world.

[@Traderjoe]

I don’t know about the weather there, but if they get snow, I bet over the years that snow load and temperature fluctuations and freeze/thaw cycles are compounded into the longevity of the structural integrity of anything. Even if it was fake grass, it absorbs water and slows down runoff, which adds weight. Sad for the people lost. Hopefully they didn’t suffer.

[@purrsandfurrs]

I lived in Novi Sad. The original construction didn’t have glass and steel on top top of it. These were added during the reconstruction.

[@cyclonasaurusrex1525]

I must be wrong: Was the cantilever attached to the front rather than extending through it?

[@NaturalnaGlupost]

How many people need to die in that country to get it? The corruption is coming from the top. Poor people.

[@shiningstar8766]

Original project documentation was unavailable. Obviously someone did not calculate would the overhang support the additional weight, plus the corrosion from the water. Just my guess

[@jeffostroff]

Yes, and more and more, engineers and architects need to start thinking about what would happen to my design if people added weight to it later on. What if they added a paver brick layer on top, and decide to make it a patio for parties and dances? That would be devastating but we need to think of these things when we design buildings.

[@vzaba]

Yes, they added glass. I am in Serbia. There are pictures. It also looked like steel framing for the glass which would have added even more weight. It's horrible. People are still in critical condition fighting for their lives.

[@milanradakovic6786]

Drugar, ok analiziraš ali ne baš dovoljno stručno. Govoriš o pukotinama na podužnoj betonskoj gredi, a to nisu pukotine, to je samo malter koji m su lepljenje i učvršćene ukrasne ploče.

[@Valentina-hd7hn]

Nisam ing. Ali se pitam ko je potpisao tehnicki pregled?

[@mikibl]

Very good analisys. There are so many questions to answer . From 1964, this construction was subject to so many harsh winters; some times with heavy snow and eis load and survived. On this particular day, whether was perfect. It must be something related to additional loads and aging of the structure?! This clean concret separation at the beams snapping section is pointing to no continues pooring of the concrete?!

[@chrislambert9435]

The Chinese Construction Company (or any other Company) may have done the Work, but so what ! ! who was it that directed/commissioned them to do this work ? ?

[@gofindanicecarCarl]

Serbia and the Chinese cooperation😂 Small balls to make a response to China.

[@mm17101978]

Excellent video sir!

[@ruckusrodkustom8140]

Shouldn’t the ties from the roof help support the canopy? Or at least hold up during the collapse?

[@rangolastarfarajevic7151]

They got damaged in the "restauration" process, there are images on some Serbian forum. You have to take into account that our (Serbian) government is highly corrupt. That's the main reason for these kind of incidents. Everything they touch falls apart soon after. I'm surprised that this was the first disaster that people died in.

[@J4ckCr0w]

They were not reinforced.

[@alisamatlas495]

I live in Serbia Belgrade ,you better described all clues and mistakes and dates better than Serbian NEWS and interview ! BRAVO!!!! NICE JOB

[@jeffostroff]

I appreciate the feedback, thanks for watching!

[@dixieleflore1409]

Such a tragedy 😢🙏🇷🇸

[@J4ckCr0w]

That could have been avoided if the government was not as corrupt.

[@МусаКесаџија]

Класично преоптерећење без икаквог стандарда сигурности. И да није било додатно оптерећено питање времена је када би само пало пошто је зграда била јако стара.😢

[@JamieW-o7b]

The upper roof was already showing damage by age and water, the lower roof should have been "questioned" too! Was a nice design and a practical layout for its day.