SethTheProgrammer VS Qaaman Debate | Majin Buu VS Cell as Villains

In this video, I debate Qaaman's Land on the value of Majin Buu vs Cell as villains to the Dragon Ball Z story. And while this was originally about Majin Buu and Cell it does turn into respective arc vs arc later on due to Qaaman.

[@Pinpins]

Yikes, so many people inserting who they think won based on their opinion of the topic, please finish the debate before asserting things lol... Little Description on the debate: Qaaman is an experienced debater who has had years of practice in school, and specializes in Dragon Ball Narrative, so I thought this would be a fun one and I felt like it was a good test of rhetoric, hope you all enjoy. The debate was chosen to be judged by MjxTV who gives his verdict near the end. (Yes, this is devils advocate on my end due to a discussion that spawned the debate because I eventually started talking to him about Jiren being a much better antag then Cell. It usually always is but..)

[@Power-9Hunnid]

It's definitely devil's advocate.

[@khalilwilliams1818]

Cell was way better then Buu, the only smart thing Buu did was after he got beat by Gohan he came back and insigated gotten and trunks to fuse so he could absorb them. Because really after super Buu absorbed vegetto what was his motivation after all he did was fly around looking for cake and snacks smh. Cell was better,

[@ChaddyFantome]

1:25:55 ya contradicted yourself there Sethy. Earlier you said that at no point was there any real threat of Gotenks beating Super buu and that Super Buu had no reason to think he was gonna beat him. :P

[@Pinpins]

@@ChaddyFantome Up to the opponent and judge to call out contradictions, not the audience lol. There was contradictions and confusing rhetoric the whole time, which is common with subjective debates.

[@emastermet609]

@@Pinpins Yeah not a lot of people seem to get how debates work🤔.

[@Geekdom101]

This was so much fun!! I was so happy to be there. You both made fantastic points.

[@ChaddyFantome]

Agreed. I'd love to see more debates like these in the future.

[@DragonNoir1]

Geekdom101 notice me geekdom lol🔥🔥😤🕺🏿

[@noer.6954]

Piss off! And take your ego with you

[@alexg2903]

You're ass compared to these two

[@Power-9Hunnid]

@Geekdom101 I knew you would show up lol!

[@sonicandshadowsjunction]

*Kid Buu* :REEEEEEE *Cell* : Imma spread them cheeks 6 ways from Sunday

[@zakbrandsinc]

Sonic and Shadow's Junction Best comment on here

[@content_cop4006]

Dude.... why

[@Berlinbower]

Thank you

[@fromakspov8396]

Finally, a debate where Seth doesn't just completely dominate the opposition. But, seriously this was a really great debate between you two, hopefully in the future there could be more debates on this level.

[@moonsmonsters]

@DannyDaDuffyDucking Daffer ya mean, he actually let them speak lol

[@quirenciatala437]

@@moonsmonsters well it's generally the contrary of what you're trying to say.

[@moonsmonsters]

tala gEnEraLLy

[@gobackpls3029]

moonsmonsters mocking someone doesn’t prove anything lmao

[@gobackpls3029]

Chance Seth isn’t the one losing in this is he.

[@arbiteradam]

*After the debate.* Toryama: I just thought it was some cool ideas.

[@amunRa95]

Right lmaooo

[@kami9143]

So damn tru

[@Zenith_Nulls]

Lmao fax

[@princecheck11]

@provis345 p they need help but u on here complaining like a tard

[@fbislif3]

@provis345 p why donu watch then

[@erickgomez3924]

Time to invest 2 hours of my life

[@giovannicampos3239]

Erick Gomez this was nothing compared to the 5 hours of life invested last time....

[@TooCosmic]

FACTS

[@giovannicampos3239]

Johnny Serrano Barraza yeah I did, it was more of a podcast thing to me so I listened to it when I had time ya know. Definitely worth it since I was doing something else when listening so I didn’t mind hearing Seth slap

[@dontedoestuff]

That was an exhausting way to spend my quarantine time lol

[@rememberme3762]

Its painful to watch.

[@strykerman7888]

Seth: You are contradicting yourself Qaaman: You are making my point

[@insertedgynamehere___969]

"Let me give you an example"

[@strykerman7888]

@@insertedgynamehere___969 "I find that irrelevant"

[@Zenith_Nulls]

@@strykerman7888 "You lost the moment you existed"

[@VolatileViolet]

These two are living examples of the reverse Uno card.

[@lancetheking7524]

it's like using a red reverse on a yellow reverse

[@whattyabuyin]

Qaaman was the first guy I watched as a kid to get into DB youtubers, but Seth has easily been my favorite since I discovered him.(Doesnt help I haven't watched Qaaman in years)

[@spambamkeija634]

HEY EVERYBODY IT IS QAAMAAAAN HERE TODAY

[@whattyabuyin]

@@spambamkeija634 and I'm bringing you a-nother dragon ball z segment on how....

[@spambamkeija634]

@@whattyabuyin BROLY IS GONNA CLAP CHEELYES CHEEKS

[@rawsama1513]

Soo bias

[@frostfrog6393]

Well it doesn't matter who you prefer, it matters who you think is right

[@inigmianstudios2771]

Realy loving this. Never expected Quaaman to appear here

[@dwboutit282]

Seth: "Don't interrupt me." Dude you interrupted Quaaman like 50 times. 😂

[@madaralitchiha2125]

Yeah but his facts all were weak cant blame him

[@Han-dle]

@@ManaSamaSRK have you met seth personally outside of debates?

[@justasinglesummon3912]

Seth interrupts because he can immediately counter the point someone's making or when the point isn't valid

[@Nozirev]

Micivison facts I hate how people judge someone they’ve never ever based off a persona

[@EPIKGamess]

Seth interrupted him to make educational comments and still let him place his statements

[@amartinez97]

Seth should debate ItsAnimeGirl next XD

[@whereisgodlike9965]

It must happen man

[@WeBarelySober]

ItsAnimeGirl wins with minimal difficulty, but if she goes all out then it's just GG.

[@Power-9Hunnid]

Clothespin should be in the background for that lol.

[@-toxicus-8582]

Yoo this is a debate not hardcore abusive smashing

[@Dr.HooWho]

@@WeBarelySober nope

[@Power-9Hunnid]

They are all making excellent points!

[@copy503]

Was this the long awaited LEGENDARY debate that was hinted at months ago on Twitter???

[@Dripx-]

1:57:04 LOL I did not see that coming "MEH HE HE HE HE HE" "I don't think that's fair"

[@alphabrother6823]

Drip. *exasperated breathing*

[@thehighestorder2868]

Drip. What was that anyway? I was confused.

[@rememberme3762]

2 times the speed is the best.

[@pear-head]

Was Gotenks popular? Yes lots of people like him, not as many people as those who despise him, but still he's got plenty of fans.

[@DaReelSlimN80]

Make that an 808

[@SSJBlueVegito]

This was an unequivocally good debate...both of you guys made some amazing points throughout this whole debate which kept me intrigued the entire time. You two need to debate more often about Dragon Ball as a whole.

[@Faiz21222]

Seth: Dont interrupt me *Interrupts quaaman beforehand*

[@1stNumberOne]

After listening to this a few times Q actually won on a lot of points. Seth moved around and changed his point a couple times then argued like he was right lol. Q kept saying your making my point. Good debate tho! Keep it up.

[@Miloeren12]

Is this an alt 🤨

[@1stNumberOne]

@@Miloeren12 No..

[@Zenith_Nulls]

@@1stNumberOne lol you replied 2 YEARS LATER?!

[@1stNumberOne]

@@Zenith_Nulls so did you?🤔

[@Zenith_Nulls]

@@1stNumberOne I was just surprised

[@Tracker947]

My primary reasoning for why Buu is better comes down to one exchange that has always stuck out to me more than any other in the series. Mystic Gohan: "I'm going to show you why my little brother looks up to me." Buutenks: "He doesn't."

[@Riskofrain527]

Buutenks messing around with gohan mentally and physically is easily the main reason I like him better than cell. Yeah cell messed with vegeta, but that's vegeta anyone can do that. Frieza did it 10 times better an even made him cry and beg for goku to help him.

[@razkable]

true

[@BeefSalsaa]

Both of you guys have very valid points, and its more subjective than anything. But I do prefer the Buu arc.

[@BooserBoi]

@@RsLeonardo1 Cause A) this wasnt arc vs arc, it was character vs character and B) Quamann debated arc 75% of the time, pulled a random dude into the debate to prove an off topic point, and he seemed to fail to understand what anyone was saying. He threw the debate from formal to semi-formal so he would be able to talk more. Basing it off the rules of judging a debate, Seth shit stomped. The points that were debated however are completely subjective and you're entitled to your opinion.

[@dabomand9827]

@@BooserBoi this was about arc vs arc and seth also brought up just as many off topic points. Bringing off topic points as an example doesnt mean changing the subject, you are compeletely off topic when you change the subject and quaman never did that

[@_sjakelly9450]

Michael Keb it wasnt arc vs arc, it literally says buu vs cell AS VILLAINS

[@dabomand9827]

@@_sjakelly9450 that is only the title(main topic), The actual argument was "which was a better villan between cell and buu". They then defined "a better villan" as one who had the most impact in the story of the whole dbz. If cell arc had more impact in dbz, it meant that cell as a character was a better villan, if in contrast the buu arc was more impactful to the show, it meant that buu was a better villan. The "arc v arc" debate was the result of the main topic not an off topic

[@dabomand9827]

​@Mr. Finesse But, Quaman was just speaking in general. He was not refering to a specifc timeline. And yes, he is correct about that speaking generally!

[@sheeemt399]

Majin buu was just an more powerful cell just far more enchanted. Better absorption, healing, having the z fighters abilities. I like cell more because i thought his shit talking was top shelf 😂😂

[@Yokai_Yuri]

Majin buu/Kid buu was only stronger than Cell because he was the "next villain" If cell would have survived during those 7 years, he would have been waaaay stronger than anything else at that point in the series. Also Majin Buu is NOT better than Cell, amd the reason being is... 1. Cell has zenkai boost like the saiyans. His zenkai was so strong that he was able to match ssj2 gohan. 2. Unlike Buu, Cell can self improve and super quickly thanks to frieza's cells and the saiyans. 3. Much like Black, Cell can stay in one state and recieve zenkai boost. Majinbuu was at his peak when he was in his superbuu form. After that he needed to absorb people.by tricking them or cheap/surprising attacks.

[@SuperNeroKami]

@@Yokai_Yuri Super proved that completely wrong Buu didn't train for his power and neither did Cell but before the tournament Buu showed his growth potential is far beyond zenkai boost and Friezas, he trained for an hr and grow exponentially further than Frieza didn't in a couple months, and he wasn't even training against strong partners.

[@Berlinbower]

Yeah thats what i'm saying

[@IAMIKO_]

Omega Storm Well buu learned that move so you can’t call him weak also cell isn’t stronger than kid buu, if you watch dragon ball z you can see goku uses ssj against cell NOT only... he got a sensu bean but he also lost to ssj 2 KID gohan while buu, GOKU had to go ssj3 To beat buu, super buu little stronger goku and vegeta had to fuse and go ssj to beat em cant tell me cell stringer than buu

[@gh0rochi363]

Best of the best.

[@highhonor9443]

Hey Seth could you go up against swagkage in naruto debates I think it would be very cool to see to gods swap hands with each other

[@brando3424]

i think they have in his Discord

[@williamgarcia8033]

@mysterious universe Swag probably knows more Naruto than Seth. They debated Sasuke beginning of Shippuden vs Jiraiya and Swag won. Swag didn't brutally destroy Seth but Swag still won.

[@blackgamerguy17]

@@williamgarcia8033 he didnt win. There was no "victor"

[@williamgarcia8033]

@mysterious universe Seth said himself he lost that debate. Just because he doesn't like debating in his videos doesn't mean he hasn't done it (well it was literally just one video but you get my point).

[@williamgarcia8033]

@@blackgamerguy17 Seth himself said he lost.

[@ChaoticHeretic]

Seth: It was only a flash of character development. It didn't stick. So I guess Seth just fell right the fuck asleep at the start of the Buu arc where vegeta was busy being a father, not to mention purposely allowing himself to be cursed by Bibbidi to revert to his old self. He needed to revert because after he watched Trunks die it made him realize how much he actually did care for him which changed him and this change DID stick with him through to the Buu Saga.

[@afropharoxhz]

Seth doesn't necessarily agree, he's playing devils advocate and just has to make the best attempt at proving his argument for the debate. Like a lawyer in a sense

[@abrammilner9560]

Seth just ignores things like this because the other person said it. Kinda like cell, smart but ego trippin

[@danielola-abidoye1365]

Abram Milner he’s playing devil’s advocate he says so in his comment as a debater I’ve played devils advocate against people who don’t know their shit and can’t disprove this

[@abrammilner9560]

@@danielola-abidoye1365 playing devils advocate doesnt mean you have to ignore the facts, nor does it mean belittling somebody else. These things have nothing to do with devils advocate unless the person defining it feels the need to put it in

[@danielola-abidoye1365]

Abram Milner when you play devil’s advocate it’s by any means and is basically bullshitting to win I haven’t watched the full video do I don’t know about belittling anyone Seth did mention he respects Qaaman as a debater

[@BartholomewConstantine]

53:38 "he's Jewish so he can speak all day" 😭😭😭

[@Power-9Hunnid]

Big Jiggly tho lol.

[@somethingrandom3961]

Still don't get what he was trying to imply by saying that.

[@ChaddyFantome]

A legend meets a legend

[@BeefSalsaa]

But also Seth, you can't separate the arc 5 minutes into the discussion when you agreed to accumulate it.

[@nemanjacabarkapalordozunu]

Trevor Darby Hey seth is god of youtube he is a reason why i make videos.

[@BeefSalsaa]

@@nemanjacabarkapalordozunu Hes the best debater/dbz content creator in my opinion too. But Qaaman deserves some respecc lmao well once he stops fucking with geekdom lmao that braindead

[@BeefSalsaa]

@xPotatoxGod__69 he has a toxic ego

[@locdogg86]

@@BeefSalsaa At least it doesn't bleed through each video. He tries to be professional in his content. Seth is really immature like 90% of the time.

[@BeefSalsaa]

@@locdogg86 big fan of both creators, he is more immature but thats more my style anyway

[@vinceoverheaven]

Two Titans

[@darynamoros6735]

Both had great points, but I did ultimately come out thinking cell is still a better character as a whole. Mainly because of the fact Buu's impact on the series was almost completely retconned when it came to character development

[@-toxicus-8582]

Tbh buu arcs character development was completly forgotten in super only carrying around in gt Cell arcs character dev is still with us till this day

[@darynamoros6735]

@@-toxicus-8582 yeah, that's what I said in my comment 😂

[@-toxicus-8582]

@@darynamoros6735 😂

[@Riskofrain527]

@@-toxicus-8582 yes, but super is terrible so it doesn't matter what information got carried over to it.

[@sligen]

One big character development that got retconned was Vegetas respect for Goku being better than him. He reverted back to Cell saga/early Buu saga Vegeta.

[@Darkbiscuit]

Damn love this debate. Personally feel cell is better as a villain, but can’t resist a logical back and forth.

[@eyewarsx]

1:54:17 "I misunderstood, I'm not gonna be a sore loser" Sneaks in a little conclusion anyways.

[@iNC0GNEGRO]

Quaaman did NOT properly represent his stance in this argument. He LET Seth control the pace and specific topic of each point. It's practically a labored concession.

[@cslack813]

Well put. What should he have done?

[@grease317]

CSlack been more assertive also there were some times that Seth ignored parts of his argument and he didn’t say anything also he let Seth interrupt him but when he would talk over Seth, Seth would tell him to not interrupt him and he would just listen, over all they both made great points but qaamam needed to be more assertive

[@brendiesel386]

Idk that whole thing about Buu being a good villain because they had to pull a bunch of bullshit to beat him? And that proves he’s an evolving unstoppable monster? Or the thing with Gotenks and Buu goofing off and dragging out the fight? Seth didn’t really give me a real reason why Buu is better than Cell; meanwhile Qaaman talked about the evolution of Cell, the process of how he became Perfect, and how he challenged the other characters. All Seth said was fusion was cool and Vegeta became friends with Goku because of Buu

[@lssjg]

QAAMAN IS ALIVE WHAT?!?

[@zakbrandsinc]

Gokahn Qaaman is a very good debater, and also is very knowledgeable in DragonBall lore. There was no way Seth could catch a W easily.

[@lssjg]

The Kid What the fuck is the point of your comment. I already know who Qaaman is but he hasn’t uploaded or anything so I thought he legit died

[@zakbrandsinc]

Gokahn Oh I misinterpreted I thought you meant alive after the debate. I thought you were gassing Seth up or something my bad homie

[@peacefuldestroyer2135]

The Kid Seth argued a point he didn’t even believe in and technically won

[@jsmooth8655]

I think a huge mark of a good villian is not only their interactions with the protagonist but having their own motivations, personalities, and goals. In that regard cell is a vastly superior villian. Otherwise the buu arc had way more character development for the protagonist.

[@haystackbill6187]

You also have to keep in mind, though, that the Cell Saga was dealing with these characters(Vegeta especially) during a time period when their character arcs hadn't come full circle yet. And the Cell saga still had it's fair amount of character development, and played a big role in furthering character arcs in preparation for the Buu saga. And it did a great job of that whilst also telling an interesting and pretty complex story.

[@tmacjman1]

20:05 totally agree with a qaaman on that one

[@ostint912]

Great debate! You both brought up interesting points that kept me interested throughout the whole 2 hours. I’m pretty certain your logic and arguments were much more concrete. Also what’s up with the last ten seconds where it repeats you laughing?

[@Pinpins]

Just thought it was funny. Lol.

[@ChaddyFantome]

Agreed, I was and still am swinging back and forth on this every other point and argument being presented. Both made very solid cases and I feel like I came out of this with more perspective on both arcs than I did going in.

[@ostint912]

Pinpin oh ok I thought you might have had some audio issues

[@ChristianColvin]

it's called trolling lol. which he fucked himself on at the end when he stated his entire argument was "for fun" pretty much. noob.

[@RyanVonAegir]

Seth needed to back off a bit early on. He was being a bit hypocritical. He told Qaaman not to use the whole Android Arc, but when Qaaman applied that logic to the start of the buu arc, Seth said it did count. Also, Qaaman was fairly polite and let Seth explain himself but Seth kept interrupting up.

[@KSmanderes]

Damn, Qaaman might not have been ready for this. He moved the goal post of the original argument of villian vs villain to arc vs arc...

[@Mauricekaip]

He wanted to change the debate to that in the beginning. I also think this should have been stricter in terms of moderation, they keep jumping around and it doesn’t feel like any points are conceded. Also the fact he took 2 conclusions annoys me.

[@Sethnotasithsr]

I actually do like the Buu arc a lot... I've never really understood all the hate it garnishs... Seth's reasons may be playing devil's advocate. But I think these are real reasons why it's a cool arc. Thanks for this debate

[@Sethnotasithsr]

@neil finder yeah like... I'm always taken aback when someone says how much they hate Gotenks & how much he ruins it... I'm like... Are you serious? All the dark and light humor c'mon. Seth's point about the stakes feeling real most of the time is a very true. ESPECIALLY on your first time watching. So many twists & turns

[@nestility288]

If you split up the arcs its really: Cell Group: Trunks Arc, Android Arc, Imperfect Cell Arc, Perfect Cell Arc, Cell Games Arc Buu Group: Great Saiyaman Arc, World Tournament Arc, Babidi Arc, Fat Buu Arc, Fusion Arc, Kid Buu Arc lol

[@-toxicus-8582]

Fat buu arc is mostly filler

[@iris7982]

@@-toxicus-8582 as is the whole tournament arc with the kais and alot of the saiyaman arc and your point about filler is dumb as super has gregory and that is considered to be canon and alot of non canon parts and the Kai parts of the buu arc like the five supreme kai filler in the anime

[@fred2995]

I would put perfect cell arc and cell games together

[@guyver6622]

I think you guys are both right, but for different reasons. SethTheProgrammer is right because he happens to have more character development in the Heroes. Qaaman is right in the way Cell actually completes his mission, he becomes perfect, and kills Goku, which is the entire reason for him being created and his purpose for living. Cell actually reaches his goals. majin buu doesn't stay villain throughout the entire arc though he turns good both versions of them, the fat version and the kid version. mr. satan redeems the fat version, and the supreme kai reincarnates the kid buu into Uud. The winner is Qaaman.

[@jeremywilliams8830]

Wrong

[@creeperkinght1144]

While this might be correct my guy, that still doesn't deny the fact that Buu, no matter what form, was still antagonistic undeniably. A good example later for antagonistic methodologies is in the Moro arc in DBS is the discussion between Moro and Vegeta, which mind you has had a lot of character development in this arc. But the key point is that Moro points out Vegeta's actions in the past as a villian, but Vegeta accepts this, and will still fight Moro regardless alongside Goku, but still intend to kill Moro. Buu does this by not instead of having a swallow of pride, but an evolution of complexities down the line of completely understanding humanity, as Seth discusses, and along with the reincarnation as Uub to fully experience humanity/mortality instead of nature/immortality. Hell, even GT went over this idea, which says a lot for a timeline that isn't considered canon to the main timeline. Cell's arc is about the power of the indulgence of the ego vs. the indulgence of faith of yourself and others connected to you. Both are really good points, however the Buu saga takes both of these ideas and utilizes it literally, metaphorically (in both a serious and satiric sense), and philosophically and refocuses it through new lens of the ideas of nature vs. humanity. The nature vs. humanity concept is a much deeper complex philosophy than ego vs. faith and been discussed for much longer and with more deeper concern on both positive (i.e religious ideals, Eastern traditions (make sense?), etc.) and negative ( Lovecraft, rationalism, existentialism, etc.) perspectives. I have to give it to Seth since not only were the stakes higher, but these concepts I've discussed are put into the story in clever ways, with satiric or serious methodologies.

[@oralconnickie7199]

@@creeperkinght1144 you made my comment before I could. I think Buu not staying evil the whole arc made him a better character in the end. He didn't have much of a goal in the beginning other than Babidi's will. He took over control and started to live and observe to the point where he was at odds with himself. One that he lost. Which fuelled his antagonistic tendencies even further to it's climax. Then after he destroyed and fought. In the end, the only Buu left standing is the good one. I think that also adds more complexity to his character. I have to give it to Seth as well

[@Scendence_]

"Cell never pushed them to surpass the super sayian form" Ssj2 Gohan: Bruh

[@oralconnickie7199]

You missed his point right there clearly

[@AyeeShaad]

1:34 You definitely did say “Kid Buu”

[@Carnige32]

Good catch

[@hwoiewowie1087]

chances are he meant to say majin buu and not kid buu

[@mercurad]

Imp cells introduction was aweSome. There was legit so much mystery. And even horror. There was foreboding and foreshadowing. And we didn't even know who he was. It was dbzs first real take on horror and done well actually

[@Riskofrain527]

I would say their first attempt of horror was the garlic jr. Arc. It was filler, but it came before the cell arc.

[@tractal5637]

Seth is just on a completely different level compared to most other known dbz and naruto debaters it’s quite amazing that he is able to win debates while playing devils advocate (for people who don’t know what that means he’s arguing something he doesn’t believe in his self)

[@azzydreamurr5677]

His points are facts even if he believes or not

[@sajaihaloD]

23:30 -- I remember this scene. But, more to the point, Seth asserting that Buu was always in control throughout his fight with Gotenks proves Qaaman's point that the entire thing was a pacing device for the sake of Gags and Jokes at the detriment of tension and storytelling. If Buu was always in control when they fought then none of the tension during it was real. Hell, you can't even give merit to Gotenks for managing to hold Buu off. Buu WANTED to be held off; Gotenks didn't do anything besides entertain him and stall the story-- which in turn, weakens the weight of the Buu arc. If Buu was always in control, then the fight with Gotenks was pointless-- and in fact, hurts the larger narrative because Gotenks ends up being used against Gohan soon after once he's absorbed. Seth might assert that the author's intent is what matters at the end of the day, but we can't sit here and pretend that companies don't push creators to make fluff content just to build ratings and sustain relevance. I'm not saying that's what Gotenks was, but if he never had Buu on the ropes, then the amount of value he added to the DBZ Franchise has been reduced to about as much as Kayfla in Super in my opinion. In fact, it's worse because people died because of their trust in him to beat Buu. 🤷🏾‍♂️ Edit-- Everyone believed Gotenks could beat Buu, not just piccolo but Goku too. How many people have to be wrong before it's worth respecting? This is definitely one of the better challengers Seth has had to deal with.

[@user-tn6cx2vu6b]

Damn qamaan makes some great points , this is a very good debate . Both were countering each others points

[@Nozirev]

Yo the ending of this killed the energy

[@Kingshit69]

Another battle of titans

[@lilxchicken1008]

King of lighting

[@juliuscaesar346]

@@lilxchicken1008 ...... obviously

[@craignewsome2058]

@@lilxchicken1008 that wasn't a battle of Titans. Seth clapped King of Lightning 😂😂

[@lilxchicken1008]

@@craignewsome2058 I feel like king of lighting is a titian but got stuck on this debate I feel like if it was a versus match up it would be way more entertaining

[@craignewsome2058]

@@lilxchicken1008 maybe but while KOL was full of "potentially", "maybe", and "I don't know", Seth had actual facts 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@1stNumberOne]

Probably one of my favorite Seth debates. Not too much talking over eachother and Qua actually has some good points. Solid vid!

[@tmacjman1]

I dont think combat intelligence is better then actual intelligence.

[@metal87power]

In shonen world it is. :D

[@matrixdeprogrammed1271]

You wouldnt think that when youre getting that ass whooped.

[@Riskofrain527]

@Itachi Boi terrible example. Naruto at the beginning sure, but the war arc ruined it. Now it's all about dna. If you're born with bullshit genes you're going to be op.

[@azzydreamurr5677]

Sun tzu: yea yea

[@Aesirfollower2020]

some many great points, Love how they argued back and forth they knew what they were doing. Great discussion even more respect for The DB community

[@grapespace]

I still think Q’s point on Cell pitting Vegeta against his son is valid. Sure, Babidi did the same thing in the Buu arc, but that wasn’t Buu. This debate is supposed to be about who is the better villain, not who has the better arc. Saying that Babidi did the same thing isn’t sequitur because Babidi isn’t Buu. EDIT: Fixed inconsistent spelling of “Babidi”

[@grapespace]

I don’t believe he won; I just think this was overlooked.

[@lethargictroll6788]

Thank you. When he said "Cell turned Vegeta on Trunks" and the other dude was like " yeah but so did Babidi I was like ?????? Isn't this about Buu and Cell??

[@Vin-fu1rm]

I respect Quaaman! He knows what he’s talking about it. Awesome and the best debate so far! I give it a draw!

[@cslack813]

Qasman “okay u said kid buu made goku and vegeta friends-“ Seth: “I just said buu. Not kid buu” ****rewinds video 2 minutes*** Seth: “kid buu is the reason goku and vegeta...” Nice

[@alkan68]

Qaaman: I think I made good points and I think I won the debate" lmao.

[@donweezing]

Seth and Qaaman!!! Great debate, think Seth just edged it tho.

[@bugthesda3480]

Nah

[@handzofstone1152]

@@bugthesda3480 Yeah

[@fortress7493]

Qaaman is actually consistent with his arguments

[@anfunny3762]

@@handzofstone1152 Nah Qaaman's arguments were pretty solid fam

[@Riskofrain527]

@@anfunny3762 nobody won. It's just which person you agree with.

[@alexdeghost2729]

Half an our in, I think Seth is winning because Qaaman is focusing on the arc and not the argument, which is the villain.

[@bigblueporpoise8049]

This actually made me appreciate the buu arc a bit more considering I was still overlooking his character as mindless yelling like broly

[@CaptainAnonymous]

His arguments against Gotenks being vital to the story is loaded with language that presupposes his conclusion. He can't seem to look past what they did vs the intention of what they did towards the story overall

[@thebwarrior7410]

Captain Anonymous his issue with gotenks is that he destroyed the pacing. Moments before the fight begins Buu kills 99% of the planets population and kills all the z-fighters. And then we go into a a gag fight? It’s poor timing

[@CaptainAnonymous]

@@thebwarrior7410 I would somewhat agree. Even if that's true, I feel this point doesn't help answer the debate question. Talking about the pacing in this way is more an argument towards the writing and not with Buu himself. Even if we ascribe blame to a character here, Gotenks would be the problematic one.

[@thebwarrior7410]

Captain Anonymous I know. I was just addressing the issue with pacing. Honestly I’m not sure I can say Seth and quamm made good arguments. What do you think?

[@CaptainAnonymous]

@@thebwarrior7410 I'd agree. Neither of them really got a good argument out, but I'd say that had to do with Quamans obsession with countering everything said. Seth somewhat tried and even asked if the debate topic was being changed from what they agreed on. I'd be on the side of Cell but in this debate the argument wasn't really made

[@CaptainAnonymous]

@@thebwarrior7410 my favorite part was when Quaman showed a lack in understanding what a conclusion is. I know he knows what a conclusion is, he just messed up by focusing on the counters and not listen to the others telling him to give a final statement

[@LonkTheLegend37]

Why do I not see ANY comments about the ending of this video

[@DaReelSlimN80]

I dont even know where to begin lol

[@Wicked061]

I have always liked qaaman. Good video. I wondered how him running into seth would play. And i enjoyed it. Gj guys 🍻👊

[@JBurnz001]

Just like any other debate it’s all about preference and people will pick a winner to whoever agrees with what they already think. It’s human nature so I’m not getting on anybody about it. That being said I’ve always had to defend my opinion on Buu and the Buu saga being better then Cell and the Cell saga. I get it because it’s a popular opinion that the Buu saga was the worst of Z and I don’t think it’s true. We literally got a bunch of episodes of cell doing nothing but sitting in the middle of the cell games ring. No motive but to just fight the strongest fighters just because. Where Buu who seems mindless really goes through a lot to change his thinking throughout the arc constantly evolving. As far Buu he’s being controlled by babidi until he realizes he doesn’t need him and kills him off so he can go do whatever he wants. He meets mr. satan and then learns to actually love another being more then himself. That then conflicts with the true aura of Buu and then the good personality and evil personality of Buu clash. The evil Buu wins and wants to become the strongest being and continue his terror on the universe. He absorbs many Z fighters always trying to evolve to find a way to outsmart them and achieve his goal. When goku and vegeta outsmart him and rip fat Buu and the other fighters it of him, he snaps and reverts back to evil kid Buu. Once that happens buu no longer cares about how things needs to be done and then just goes all out and actually does what he intended in the first place and blew up the earth. He then wants to get rid of the rest of his threats and flys to find goku and vegeta and tries his best to do that until goku finally defeats him. All that is more interesting then cell hiding trying to snatch androids up then ultimately doing so and then standing around a ring for a bunch of episodes doing nothing. Finally has cell games and then still does nothing but fight the z fighters just cause until gohan kills him. It’s like he had no real motivation other then absorbing 17 and 18. That’s it, other then that he didn’t care about anything but fighting and the way the arc goes just proves that he really did nothing. The only thing he did was talk which is the only thing people love about the saga. Frieza is better then cell let alone Buu.

[@UnlimitedRadioButNoSoap]

this was ASS seth did better tho

[@Nandermonium]

These two: debate Swag half drunk in a corner: MADARA WINS

[@93vibezz]

Lmao god tier comment

[@marksterling381]

This was a great debate wher both parties did a really good job eloquently expressing their point of view. I was a little disappointing in how Seth often interrupted Quaaman as he had alot of really solid points but overall great debate!

[@OckdaGod1]

I can’t lie Seth but Quaaman got you on this one buddy

[@Riskofrain527]

Nope seth won :)

[@hlo0_096]

@@Riskofrain527 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😁😁😁😆😆😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😅😅😅😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@reagantodd5913]

Yeah I was expecting seth to win tbh but Quaaman definitely won

[@herrscherofisaf5592]

@@Riskofrain527 HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[@adrianchriste6]

honestly, i think cell has better character as a villain, however, i like buu so much more because i felt true fear from buu, like he couldnt get beaten no matter what, it forced them to fuse for gods sake.

[@VolatileViolet]

Two hours of DBZ debates... Hell yeah.

[@nihonggotaberugaming255]

This debate makes me wanna watch both arcs again

[@razkable]

i thin boo is a better villain but cell arcs is better if that makes sense...boo's arc was a bit awkward with the hero changing while cell felt planned out to always end with gohan winning

[@LordCybot]

I like how seth said “dont interrupt” but this man is constantly interrupting

[@goldengoon4073]

Exactly

[@vickywachen3547]

Qaaman wins this easily imo

[@hwoiewowie1087]

you're cracked

[@shadowsansvii8715]

Yes Qaaman won

[@malachithekiller3117]

What

[@BigWisper]

Good debate. That mayo dude kinda ruined the flow tho.

[@morrisdennison8039]

I love these older debates even till this day

[@David88123]

This was a very good debate and lots of good points were brought up by both sides. I honestly feel Qaaman brought up stronger points and did a better job supporting his arguments. However, Seth, was more structured and organized. I would personally give it to Qaaman based on his arguments and counter arguments, but both did an excellent job.

[@PopularNobody]

Seth definitely one of the best but you can't argue this. Cell was a significantly better character.

[@MMLClinicallyInsane]

Mayo is wrong about villains having resistance from transforming before cell. Frieza didn’t have any resistance. Everyone (who was in the actual fight) wanted him to transform. Vegeta was encouraging him to go into his forms to show how even then he could still beat frieza. Frieza just transformed, because he said so and beyond that, to kill them and show his power. No one in that fight tried to stop frieza’s evolutions. Mayo also tried to say that they were too weak to stop him. False. Piccolo, Vegeta and Goku weren’t too weak. Two of the three (Vegeta and Goku) wanted him to go full power. Piccolo was just trying to flex his fusion on him. Only King Kai did, but he wasn’t important to the fight so he doesn’t count. Who is another villain that can transform? No one else besides Cell. Everyone resisted Cell so he’s the first to meet resistance. After that no one else, until Buu absorbed Gotenks. So his argument is already destroyed. Cell vs Buu in terms of difficulty of absorbing is more iffy. I do believe Cell has the most trouble, Buu did plan his out a lot better. No doubt about that. Cell had to go through the whole Z-Fighters and yes, everyone tried to use Vegeta due to his arrogance. Buu also used Gohan’s arrogance, because Gohan is almost like Vegeta in that aspect. Could’ve subdued Buu earlier instead of playing around (like Vegeta and 2nd form Cell). Both Vegeta and Gohan say similar things as they are approaching their enemies. They’re going to kill or defeat them. Neither do, because of that quality they share. Which ends up in both situations being terrible. If Buu wanted to, he could’ve absorbed Gotenks a lot earlier (because we know he’s just messing around with him), but he doesn’t until he knows Gohan is stronger than him. Call could not just have absorbed 17 and 18 whenever he felt like it. I understand it’s in his programming, but Cell seems to work like Buu in terms of growing in strength. Absorb and get stronger. Simple and both the same in almost every way. Just the method is different. Cell could’ve just absorbed as many civilians as he wanted and gotten so strong that him absorbing 17 and 18 would’ve been just a “yeah I guess I could” thing. This isn’t just headcannon, it’s fact from what we see with Cell. So his programming is only a telling him, “doing it this way is most optimal, because these beings should be the strongest things I’ve ever created” and not “this is what you have to do.” 17 and 18 just give him the biggest boost in power unlike regular people. Now I don’t like using GT as references, but in hell where Cell absorbs Goku (for a moment), Cell is instantly probably the strongest character ever in DB (that we know of at the time). I understand that’s a bold statement, but that’s just an example of how his absorption works. He only needs 17 and 18 to “become perfect” or as we see it, to evolve into a new bug. Other than that, great debate as always. Sorry this was so long, but I hope you read it and tell me if there are any discrepancies. 😁

[@lax4352]

I disagree that he could have just absorbed more humans and it would have made 17 and 18 irrelevant. Cell was created as an incomplete being, he needed 17 and 18 to become whole. Unlike Buu who was a complete being from the start and absorbs others to gain more power if needed. Cell was already the strongest in the timeline he came from but 17 and 18 were dead, so he traveled to a time when they existed.

[@MMLClinicallyInsane]

Lax If Cell absorbed more civilians, he would’ve gotten much stronger. He was already stronger than everyone besides Android 16 (and debatably Android 18). I already said 17 and 18 make him “perfect” or in your description “whole,” but he doesn’t need to. His real strength comes from absorbing stronger opponents. He was made incomplete, but that doesn’t really change anything about his absorption. Also him coming to the timeline where this all takes place wasn’t just for 17 and 18 ultimately. There’s nothing in Trunk’s timeline. It was already ruined, but I do understand his programming is there to go after them (but I already addressed that as well).

[@lax4352]

@@MMLClinicallyInsane In Trunk's timeline he was already the strongest. If power alone was satisfactory for him he would have just... stayed.

[@MMLClinicallyInsane]

Lax like I said, there’s nothing to do in his timeline. If he was perfect in his timeline then what? No one to challenge him. Nothing to really rule (even though Cell doesn’t want that). What all is there for him in that timeline? Nothing. No Androids, barely any population. The whole place was fucked lol.

[@lax4352]

@@MMLClinicallyInsane "like I said, there’s nothing to do in his timeline. If he was perfect in his timeline then what? No one to challenge him." He couldn't be complete in his timeline, my point was that's the main reason the wanted to go to Goku's timeline. His motivation was less about power and more about being whole. Kyro Kuvaru ™ "Nothing to really rule (even though Cell doesn’t want that). What all is there for him in that timeline? Nothing. No Androids, barely any population. The whole place was fucked lol." Wait for a powerful warrior to develop on earth instead of blowing it up like he threatened to do in Goku's timeline.

[@alexdeghost2729]

It’d be great to see them debate this again knowing what Seth knows now.

[@xXJLNINJAXx]

Noticed quamann complained about "buu inside a buu" but loved cell jrs

[@dbtalks9938]

This was REALLY GOOD! I was honestly surprised too at Qaaman’s performance (no offense Quinn). I can definitely see both sides of the argument, and I honestly can’t choose who is better at this point lol (Although, Seth was playing Devil’s advocate so I’d like to hear him refute himself).

[@kenzierains3363]

4:04 when you hear that “I never said kid buu” When you clearly did wtf. Great debate. Didn’t even make it 5 minutes without the bullshit.

[@IEatAbsinth]

Debate of the year! I had a great time listening along and hearing each of the points. It gave me a different perspective on both characters.

[@benwelsh5265]

Finally a debate on the narrative of a story, I've been looking forward to something like this.

[@TheOneBigRed]

Seth comes across as extremely elitist and condescending in this.

[@trickyslayer1869]

I agree

[@sacredmind4600]

Qaaman won imo

[@TheGostboy7]

Man this is a real debate

[@JeffMen103]

Ultimately, I think it’s fairly obvious that Seth clearly clapped, but props to my son Qaaman though. He’s a lot better than most people Seth has debated. Qaaman is one of the OG’s in the Dragon Ball KZbin community and seeing him go head to head with Seth made my day. This debate was definitely good for background noise as I write my story. And I just want to let you guys know that Seth doesn’t actually think Boo is a better Villain. He’s obviously playing Devil’s Advocate. And that’s the case in many of these debates on this channel. Like wtf, do you actually think he sees animal rape as moral? 😂😂😂 But I digress. Nice job guys, and I hope to see more of this in the future. God Bless.

[@Riskofrain527]

Their is not clear winner. It's who you think debated better.

[@JeffMen103]

@@Riskofrain527 well judge said seth won so he seth won

[@tile1129]

I hate that they argue about how the villains impact other characters instead of arguing about the villains themselves...

[@tile1129]

@Hasan Asim no it isnt, I think Kira is a better jojo villain than say Diavolo because his motives are perverse but believable, he thinks he's in the right and truly believes he's living a peaceful life, he's not in a position of power like most villains and has to punch up at the heros instead of starting with and keeping the advantage, Diavolo on the other hand was more of a knockoff dio with personality disorder, interesting backstory but not much more to him beyond wanting to rule the world and his organization and being evil for evils sake. Notice how practically none of that has anything to do with other characters and how they interact, that's because I was judging how these 2 hold up on their own as characters, what the video should have been.

[@nabilkabbadj7759]

I’m not gonna bother watching the whole thing honestly but I feel like they’re debating the importance of the arcs on the character development of the Z fighters rather than the impact of the villains themselves... at least that’s how I feel about a lot of Seth’s arguments. Except maybe for Mr.Satan, the character development in Buu arc is either caused by the build up or the circumstances... Buu is never really triggering anything other than threatening the planet. Unlike Cell or Freeza who were directly challenging the characters or a physical but also deep psychological level.

[@floridamade6222]

You guys should do more lengthy debate videos like this one. Really enjoyed listening to, an hearing both of your opinions. Only the real Dragon Ball fans will appreciate content like this! Good shit fellas

[@Jaliyl773]

Favorite DBZ KZbinrs 🔥💪🏾💯

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

okay so 32:20, 34:30 ,39:50 and 45:08 yeah these points from seth convince me that the two forms of buu which are super buu and buutenks(though that personality or style could be replicated by making him absorb shit ton of smart warriors cause the nature and desires of that character are similar to super buu) make up a better villain then perfect cell.Just cause cell became more egotistical after each absorption and moved far away from his more strategic,demented manner doesn't automatically make it good evolution of that character.Super buu also became more powerful but he never lost the bases on what made his character so threatening and there were no cons his power up.That and multiverse fan manga hit me with a disgusting truth that since cell thinks he is the final level,he would never train after killing the z fighters thus would be an actual bug waiting for his eventual demise by some henchman of a new dragon ball ish villain.

[@austinbosh7402]

The dragonball multiverse fan manga clearly shows that Cell trained after winning the Cell Games.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

@@austinbosh7402 dabura was still able to give him a good fight,clearly he did not train.

[@austinbosh7402]

@@MGrey-qb5xz If you've read that chapter of the fan manga you would know that Cell was holding back. He literally states it himself in the same chapter in which he fights Dabura.

[@MGrey-qb5xz]

@@austinbosh7402 he gets a boost by an alternate version of buu but other then that even z fighters question if he ever trained.

[@msnjenger]

@@MGrey-qb5xz He goes toe to toe against Mystic Gohan

[@patriots234]

PINPIN VS GEEKDOM NEXT!!!!!

[@Power-9Hunnid]

Special guests: MJ, Chuck, Clyde, Quaa and Swag (if he wants).

[@ziggibear1920]

But PinPin is Seth

[@Riskofrain527]

@@ziggibear1920 How is that relevant to what they said.

[@ziggibear1920]

@@Riskofrain527 because people still dont know that pinpin is seth so when someone says pinpin they think it's someone else

[@firerabbit3185]

Nice debate. I'm leaning with Seth though. Call is my personal favourite villain but the buu arc is better imo. There's a lot more to it and like Seth said. It wasn't just... we need stronger super saiyans, haha. That being said. Had dbz ended with the cell arc... It would have made for a better ending for the series.

[@thestrongestman1008]

Afew minutes in, this has become an epic debate but is pretty much Cell arc vs Buu arc. I love it, looooool.

[@michaelcarey6649]

This whole debate comes down to, what do you prefer- the gag-comedic storytelling from dragon ball or the more serious dragon ball z tone. That will color what you think of buu and cell as characters. Neither character have reasonable motivations, real character growth, or complex personalities- considering that,- all you really can do is compare their impact on the arc. Even if you want to argue that Buu has a better thematic development, execution is relevant, in discussing if a character is done well. And, you can definitely argue that the execution in the buu arc is worse. Regardless of the thematic potential. Frankly, I think Toriyama nails the comedic type storytelling, and struggles with more serious tones. If your looking for goofy, Buu-saga trumps. If your looking for something for semi-serious, cell-saga trumps. Like, what's better- One Punch man or Attack on Titan or Hunter X Hunter ? - totally different things. I don't really see the point in trying to say, goofy comedy, is better than dark humor, or serious combat scenes. It's different things. I think this debate would have been more coherent, if they argued specific form vs form. I doubt anyone will argue fat buu >> all forms as cell as a villain, in every respect.

[@michaelcarey6649]

I agree, was a good debate, I think quaaman went off topic/was alittle unclear about some points, and would have benefited from seth being a bit more forceful in redirecting the conversation, but- still. very interesting discussion regardless. @@RsLeonardo1

[@triciatchamapi]

Hunter hunter is defo better than OPM

[@DanielGuerra92]

I agree with Qaaman's stance but I felt he lost the debate.

[@Riskofrain527]

@@3rday600 their is no actual winner. It's who you think personally won.

[@iam._miah45]

@@Riskofrain527 lol thank you

[@TheGostboy7]

If u ask me,this was even,a re debate and I love this.

[@ChiefPeep]

Now this is a great example of a good debate, legendary debate between two giants. I do wish a third person was here to debate Freezer against Cell and Buu.

[@dongxx]

Defending buu is like defending animegirl as the best in the db community

[@-toxicus-8582]

I think seth defended him pretty well presenting good counter points

[@dongxx]

@@-toxicus-8582 Nah bruv.

[@-toxicus-8582]

@@dongxx why so?

[@pulsjax8003]

@@dongxx Seth is playing devil's advocate and still making good points/slighly edging in certain aspects of the debate so imagine if he was debating over something he firmly believed/was passionate about

[@Riskofrain527]

@@dongxx you know buu being good or not is completely opinion based right. If someone decides to defend buu and say he's a good villain then that's their opinion. Just like you saying buu isn't a good villain is your opinion not a fact.

[@naix5971]

10:55 thank you seth for spitting facts. this dudes getting emotional.

[@dregonnadre]

Both arcs are great, but IMO Gohan and Cell’s beam clash + the SS2 transformation edges it out to the Cell arc. Considering the fact that Gohan being stronger than everyone had been foreshadowed since the saiyan arc with Gohan blitzing Raditz in a fit of rage.