SethTheProgrammer VS Cal Howard (VS Wiki Administrator)

[@Pinpins]

yo, sorry for being a bit aggressive at first only thing i knew was he was from vs wiki and that people hated me from there. i toned it down when i realized he was chill though

[@Walkdownshordy]

Yooo wassup nice debate bro

[@kami9143]

Nice glad to see you let them talk for the recorded ones. I know you get idiots sometimes.

[@ninjadad3769]

The Champ coming in and laying down the law straight out of the gate, y’all want to hate on the CHAMP!?! Here, hold my beer, I’ll give them a better reason to lmao.

[@zeeke.tv_4842]

Yeah I was a bit confused why you were so aggressive at first lmao. All good tho.

[@cgoat22]

This was wholesome

[@CarthusDojo]

I ALWAYS GET BROUGHT UP! LETS GOOOOOOO!

[@spencerturner4490]

My boy carthu going crazy

[@NOAHSRANT-V1]

Ya lit carthu

[@cosmic_chicken1399]

Carthu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Picmanreborn]

😭😭😭😭

[@basicallykratos7741]

NO ONE CARES! LETS GOOOOOOO!

[@calebhoward7763]

It was nice talking to you, dude. I’ll admit defeat but you were a genuinely nice guy to talk to, and an engaging debate is an engaging debate.

[@YTLoverSDab]

Took me a long time to realize this was the VS wiki guy

[@JusDarkSage]

Pin this comment⬆️⬆️⬆️

[@Shadowrulzalways]

Your site downplays many Godzilla incarnations. I think you need to research Godzilla better. Heisei Godzilla is way way way stronger than how your site claims him.

[@RasuiTheFallen]

yo good shit brody

[@StrawHat777]

Yo that was a good debate your awesome 😂😂

[@guymcnormal9713]

This guy was so polite even when Seth was popping off, mad respect

[@whaleping]

Yeah, is the guy currently blocking Archie Sonic’s verse from being 5D but yeah, mad respect

[@goldenexperiencege7410]

@@whaleping ? More context please

[@goldenexperiencege7410]

@@whaleping I mean story

[@whaleping]

Ras K Eh, just some technicalities. Claims the reasoning for 5D isn’t strong enough, even tho it’s there. Waiting for the Forum move finish so I can help upgrade characters (and, sigh, take some Haxes off of Archie Knuckles cause he was never trained by the Brotherhood).

[@guymcnormal9713]

@@whaleping Just to clarify, the character you're talking about is Knuckles from the Sonic Franchise, right? Like that red dude with dreadlocks that punches things? Because (and forgive if I'm wrong) him being 5th dimensional seems a bit skeptical to me. I'm not sure what kind of dimensional tiering you're using but if it's the same kind I'm familiar with then Knuckles would be pretty much a god.

[@opadrip]

Master Roshi: *Blows up the moon* Vs Battle Wiki: Imma pretend I didn't see that.

[@rememberme3762]

What is this debate even about.

[@insertname8700]

I'm pretty sure they said it was an outlier, but they were still wrong.

[@relaxinpeace4734]

Master Roshi literally destroyed the moon why is this a debate

[@cacenflowers927]

Idk

[@PridedWaif]

No one like to accept OG DB feats cause it’s DB.

[@zephyromega3077]

The argument is essentially boiling down to "The feat is an outlier because there weren't any other similar feats until the Saiyan Saga of DBZ, and King Piccolo's strongest attack (Which obviously is superior to Roshi) was only city level"

[@cherechesalexdaniel811]

I don’t know. Its like people still arguing post crisis superman to solar system level. It dasn’t ad up.

[@gr8b8m85]

Man really chose this of all things as the hill to die on.

[@JonaD757]

This was actually pretty positive and productive, cool to see the guy was willing to engage with Seth and change his mind on some issues.

[@xeli3046]

How debates should be

[@kingrippzard2027]

"Every one who wants to down play the Naruto section has a Bleach profile pic" "Every one who wants to down play the Bleach section has a Naruto profile pic" Why is this so true? Like I don't think I've seen a more toxic debate personally than the Naruto verse vs the Bleach verse. Especially when discussing Naruto vs Ichigo.

[@thelastgigachad7994]

I'm a bleach fan but it's true it gets ruthless out there

[@snapchatsnacks3154]

Just a robot made videos about this. I think the bleach high ballers are really dumb. I saw people claiming that ichigo was a universe buster because he survived a black hole. Want to know who else survived a black whole ? Deidara from naruto. Kakashi's Kamui is flat out referred to as a black whole in the data books. It is closer to being a black whole then that black coffin thing Aizen used. Also naruto is way stronger then deidara. By the logic of the bleach wankers. Naruto is multi universal.

[@thelastgigachad7994]

@@snapchatsnacks3154 I've never ever seen a bleach fan say ichigo is universal lol he isn't he's multiplanetary

[@kingrippzard2027]

@@thelastgigachad7994 yeah I agree, but in his defense I have heard someone say Ichigo is multi universal unironiclly

[@thelastgigachad7994]

@@kingrippzard2027 thanks for telling me but like what the fuck. This is why the versus community is hated because of wankers like this. I'm a massive fan of bleach and ichigo is my favourite anime protagonist but these wankers are just annoying they are blinded by their favouritism. Glad to see there are still those who are truthful and use calcs like yourself tho

[@slowassassin2610]

Getting ready for bed and see this upload welp now sleep for me

[@theofficialpippin225]

It's 2am and now I'm not sleeping tonight

[@darklordnoodlez9863]

I know when dealing with idiots it's best to overwhelm them but Seth chill this guy is really respectful and your not letting him make his argument

[@bigtothed4230]

This wasn’t a debate it was an education video love it

[@prpldrgnfly6520]

I would love to see some more kingdom hearts power scales if possible.

[@erickbeltran7338]

Sora vs Goku lol

[@HouseofObiwan]

Heck yeah! KH3 put out some crazy feats (Donald Duck Zetaflare??) but I'd love to hear how Sora's hax stack up to some other universes' hax

[@RedThrasher]

@@erickbeltran7338 I do see some leverage on Sora winning, depending on which Goku he were to fight.

[@FlyXcur]

@@HouseofObiwan Sora is busted even in KH standards. There's no telling how many times he could die and just retry a fight.

[@kazinotv]

Master Roshi didn't just destroy the moon, he vaporized it... How is this guy a Wiki Admin? This shouldn't even be a debate.

[@doctorfloppa2021]

How do you know he vaporized it 🗿

[@Hangra]

@@doctorfloppa2021 cause there was no debris falling onto earth and from what I recall there wasn't any dots showing debris from the moon up where the moon used to be.

[@doctorfloppa2021]

HarryTheBeastGamer I mean as far as I can recall we didn’t really see much of what roshi did regardless, it kinda just flashes and went to a panel of the moon being gone, and the anime didn’t really show it blowing up the way it did when piccolo blew it up, eh either way vaporization would probably just make it high end moon level and maybe small planetary it’s interesting to note

[@Hangra]

@@doctorfloppa2021 yeah probably.

[@iimduu9287]

BOB BOB yeah good to note but regardless your right he Roshi wouldn’t be planetary at that point either way

[@WicXed-1]

Master roshi is clearly above universal 1 he gets all the chicks 2 That means he gets vados 3 Chicks simp for him meaning VADOS simps for him 4 Vados is above universal...Done

[@zestycitrus5]

Can’t argue with facts

[@supasik1]

He was able to fight jiren Universal +

[@Picmanreborn]

@@supasik1 ultra instinct Roshi solos fiction

[@adib2219]

Preaching

[@drxpgodxx487]

Lmao master roshi gets rejected more than sanji

[@khadie6370]

“I could have a beer with you Seth” Seth- “for sure” Me- isn’t he supposed to be 14 😂😂😂😂

[@khulmach9662]

" if master roshi is moon level or not from dragon ball" Did he not destroy the Moon in Dragon Ball?

[@chrono2208]

Nah that moon was an ilusion made by popo to make roshi think he can Destroy the moon.

[@InstinctualProvidence]

Ricardo Silva You do know that statement was in dbz kakarot right? That was not in canon dragon ball😂😂

[@chrono2208]

@@InstinctualProvidence Im making a joke, plus that statement happened during gohan's training with Piccolo which is many years after roshi destroyed the moon.

[@Ieam0309]

Argument is that Roshi does what Piccolo can only achieve with a lot of effort in early Z, and without even breaking a sweat, so it is an outlier.

[@InstinctualProvidence]

Ricardo Silva oh my fault😂

[@The-X-Territory]

Everyone saying they want to see Seth powerscale Dark Souls and Kingdom Hearts, I'm here still screaming at him to powerscale Adventure Quest.

[@demongodmitch6351]

AAAAAAYYYYYYY Lets Go Cal, representing us in a good light Glad to see one of our staff members representing the site

[@ivandestroyerofvirgins1046]

Literally all it takes is a singular look at your channel to come to the conclusion that you're one of those autistic vs battles plebs and that's not even getting into the Undertale profile picture. Probably like 24 and been laid, if you stopped debating online over fictional characters then you might have a shot kid, but until that day no matter how many debates you get into, none of that will make you any less of a virgin. Probably thinks Goku is Multi Universal or that Naruto is planet level and FTL. Vs Battles is proof that we're evolving ass backwards.

[@demongodmitch6351]

Ivan Destroyer of virgins Love you too man

[@mightyso9281]

Hold this L

[@megascizor8275]

"In a good light" He got absolutely smacked my guy

[@fome5093]

@@megascizor8275 by ina good light he meant staying respectable and polite

[@YEK100]

Might wanna address how they still have Goku and every other non angel lvl character at just universal+

[@jocoolshow]

To get beyond universal +, you'd have to be able to destroy multiple universe sized space time continuums, not just physically destroying all matter in the universe So thats Zeno level stuff for being able to at least destroy 12-18 of those while the Gods, Goku, Jiren, Broly etc scale to like one-two at best

[@djwards472]

Jo-Smooth the dbz universes are bigger than ours.

[@YEK100]

@@jocoolshow no just destroying 2 or more separate space-time continuums qualifies for low multiversal. The kaioshin realm exists out side the living universe. The other world is a different space-time as confirmed by goku in the Buu saga when he was talking to piccolo . goku should've been 2-C ever since BoG.

[@YEK100]

@@LUNA-zn7ep i don't like to repeat myself. You only need to destroy separate space-times , not the time dimension itself . Learn to read guys

[@YEK100]

@@LUNA-zn7ep note that the clash between beerus and goku was gonna destroy the kaioshin realm , the living universe, the demon realm , heaven and hell ( that 5 different space-times) And just beerus and champa swapping hands was destroy 2 macrocosms ( 10 different space-times)

[@Eficiente_VSB]

Hello, discussion moderator of VS Battles here, we will very likely put Master Roshi at Moon level in the future and fix the stats of the DB characters related to him, solid arguments for that were presented from before Seth made his video criticizing our Goku profiles. vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:4478815#24 The reason why he's currently City level is because we're dealing with a forum move that will result in our threads getting deleted, and so we disallowed CRTs (threads to fix profiles, basically) until the forum move may happen. 15:00 I would like anyone to point out evidence of things like things happening, because it sounds pretty ridiculous to me considering changes in stats cannot happen due to Vs Threads, and are mostly done after 1 or more CRTs/Content Revision threads, where users argue about the stuff needed to be argued until reaching a conclusion. Those finished CRTs are (or at least should, some lazy users don't do this) linked in the summary of the edited profiles, this with the purpose to have anyone seeing the reasons behind the change (which they can also search themselves by looking up the history of the profile). Of all the CRTs I have seen from verses I support and I don't I have yet to see any downgrade being done due to somebody wanting some character to beat other character, or anything like it. Something that usually does happen in verses like DB is that young and/or inexperienced users come to make CRTs with vague, incomplete and fallacious arguments and we reject it. Then other young and/or inexperienced user comes and does the same later, we reject it and so on for years. What they're saying may be correct with the correct evidence and things to counter the arguments against it, but if it's presented in a way that needs to be rejected then it will be rejected, worse so, "we" may even get tired of the matter and have a bit of an easier time rejecting it (that's some generalization). I would attribute this latter error to be the reason as to why Roshi has been City level for so long, not something on the lines of a fan war. We are not perfect but we are more professional than that.

[@zebkai2890]

#GiveGokuImmeasurableSpeed

[@BackwardsMMA]

Arab Priest How does goku scale above infinite?

[@trent800]

@@BackwardsMMA its for Heroes goku

[@BackwardsMMA]

@@trent800 understandable

[@Beast-fq7rp]

Don’t care I have lot of questions for you guys

[@sherlockscones]

GOD i love these debates. This channel is much fucking fun to watch. Thanks for the upload Seth❤️

[@simohayha4152]

“hey, i want to clarify any claim you think i’ve made. Has anything i’ve said need to be clarified?” “...well SUBJECTIVELY” lmao

[@gokublack5831]

Damn you explain that ki control concept so well father Seth I had a debate about that not to long ago amd yeah seeimg how you did its perfect you didnt even need to show the whole akira interview thing either with what you said

[@UltraGman]

Roshi is only small boulder level, Goku is car level

[@Telarius]

No goku is only tire level. When he hit the car with his akmehameha he only rocked it

[@UltraGman]

@@Telarius true I was capping.

[@Telarius]

@@UltraGman ...what I said was kap as well bro lol

[@UltraGman]

@@Telarius Bias Goku wankers

[@PridedWaif]

This should be some good content right here boys! 🖥🍿

[@PridedWaif]

Damn it. You gotta debate an aggressive top admin from the wiki. This ain’t the same energy being displayed they always try to do 😂.

[@raymay8476]

I been waitin for something to drop on this channel 🔥

[@claudioestrella1160]

You have big pp.

[@claudioestrella1160]

Width to height facial ratio.

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

29:30 Agree, movies are weird. On one hand, Koyama won't shut the fuck up about Broly. Like Toriyama had to tell him "Shut up, Beerus wins." and he was like "ffffiiiinnnnneeeee". On the other hand, Fusion Reborn contradicts the shit out of that line of thought. Hell a guide compares Fusion Reborn Gogeta to ANIME Vegito and says Gogeta could win. The same anime Vegito who stopped Buuhan from popping the universe then told him to swing harder than that. And we all know universal+ Broly does not exist in Z. I don't even wanna hear it. As for Hirudegarn feats, he's stated universal kinda like Buu is? So that's something? Guide says he fought the same Goku Janemba did, so he scales to Goku shaking the Afterlife.

[@jandl7433]

Did Cal Howard just say that Vegeta was 15 times stronger than Raditz as a reference to Dragon Ball Z Abridged where Vegeta states he is worth 15 Raditz’s.

[@godzillakingofthemonsters5812]

No that's actually correct. 18K divided by 1.2K is 15.

[@brettz5288]

@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 Raditz max power is 1500.

[@AsAs-eu4rg]

@@brettz5288 fine, it's not 15 times but it's close, the point is : no, it wasn't because of the abridged and that is not what's wrong in cal's argument

[@rayvonvelez3129]

Raditz is as strong as a saibamen. vegeta was equal to the frieza soldier guy before the frieza arc. In frieza arc vegeta fodderized that soldier.

[@brettz5288]

@@rayvonvelez3129 Raditz is stronger than a Saibaman.

[@voidcreature9581]

Part of me didn't want to watch cause it sounded like a pretty easy slap but im still going to watch cause i like the way you debate

[@tabkg5802]

Surprisingly chill debate

[@coreyneedssleep2801]

>Cal is chill in vc despite Seth popping off >"Oh Cal is so nice! Mad respect" None of you fuckers know this dude, he can and has been a total douche before

[@WildStrawberryy]

Before even watching my clairvoyance tells me Seth stomps this guy

[@puffy_jr7521]

Can't imagine he's losing

[@dracondebates]

Seth’s a pretty good debater but he doesn’t have the feats to beat PinPin.

[@dw3134]

@@dracondebates Pure headcanon.

[@WeebSlayer71]

Seth is 1-A while this dude is 9-C This is an obvious rofly stomp

[@whateversayiam]

This is the debate Seth we love

[@dfdddm999]

You made some good points (attacks with growing AoEs that destroy infinitely-sized constructs should be rated as having infinite speed) and some shit points (outliers are only a thing when there's multiple writers). It's a shame that so much of the vs debating community is shonentards, who look at the culmination of vsbw's shonentards sperging at each other as an accurate representation of the 26k pages on the wiki, the vast majority of which are handled by a few reasonable people who don't excessively wank or downplay. tl;dr your verses are shit and I don't care if they're wrong, all of my verses are based and tiered perfectly, have a good day.

[@WaveOfDestiny]

He did not say that outliers are only a thing with different writers, that is only one of the example where they would apply. An outlier is effective when it contraddicts previous feats and statements or doesn't have enough evidence to sustain the burden of proof. When a character does the thing on screen and there are no plot holes and plot induced stupidity, and no possible haxes, that's 100% fact.

[@dfdddm999]

​@@WaveOfDestiny Oh my bad. I think I'd mostly agree and most people who disagree with him on outliers would probably agree with that framing on it, our only difference seems to be the exact level of evidence/deviance from the norm required to consider an outlier an outlier.

[@WaveOfDestiny]

@@dfdddm999 for me it only is an outlier if there is no direct evidence of the feat like: "this guy may survived a nuke but it was off screen so he could have hidden in some place or used an ability that counters explosions". If you can use mental gymnastics to get him out of there or can argue it was plot induced stupidity like bad guys coming back for no reason and it is truly the only feat in the series of that proportions, like magnitudes stronger than anything else, then it is an outlier. If the character is litterally depicted inside that explosion, or appears damaged after it in the same spot, that's the intention of the author, there is no argument. Also you can argue that normal humans and creatures with no special powers could not be supernaturally powerful unless you find direct statements on it, or litterally get depicted doing a feat directly that advances the plot. Like one time i heard a character from the walking dead is like building level because he survived a big explosion, bro they are humans it was an outlier, he could have ran off screen or something

[@dfdddm999]

@@WaveOfDestiny What are your thoughts on outliers like Universal Lanturn, for having a Pokedex stating that it could light up the entire ocean, which when calculated gives a result ludicrously far above the energy of the entire universe? Ignoring all the stuff about Pokedex entries, multiple writers, and stuff like that, do you think something like this could still be considered an outlier? A hypothetical similar feat, with direct evidence from one writer, but when calculated is both far above what 99% of people would expect when reading that line, and is far above all of the character's other feats?

[@WaveOfDestiny]

@@dfdddm999 i'd say, are you sure on what "light up" actually means? Pokedex is filled with stuff that is never shown in the games or animes, but because there are things that were actually confirmed to be true and things that are never contraddicted, you can't just say any pokedex entry is false until proven true. From what we know the pokedex is true until proven false. Does the plot hold up if it could actually do that? Maybe like many pokemon things, that energy does not translate in actual attack potency, but more like an hax ability, wich wouldn't count in battles with other opponents. So if you could say "that's just an ability, not actual attack potency", or you are not sure what the feat might actually be, sure it's an outlier. If none of the above then are there statements that contraddict what it's said? Like a confirmed weaker pokemon being able to beat said pokemon? Then it's an inconsistency and could be disregarded. If there is actually nothing like that, then it just scales everything up. Also what the hell is that calc, how can you have more energy than the entire universe in an ocean without it blowing up.

[@_Shield_Master_]

He litterally vaporized the moon, there is an entire page showing that, how's this a debate lol

[@kingtanto4]

@Gucci Guwop Lol, VS Battle wiki to a tee.

[@Coldskin1]

King piccolo even stated to one shot any region which can be the size of a small continent

[@matteozambetti4373]

Powerlevels in early Namek at times were exponential as Vegeta said Zarbon was essentially standing still from his perspective despite the difference only being a few thousand.

[@Power-1Thouzand]

I thought this was going to be spicy but I like the chill the debate vibe. Also, I remember Chuck saying Goku Xeno was possibly at 5th or 6th Dimension (post the current arc ofc) and that the DBS Goku from Xenoverse and Heroes was 7th since he defeated Mira.

[@AquaWolve1]

Damn never been so early to a Seth video. Been watching and rewatching your videos for years, man. Hope you and ya peoples are doing alright. I’m a game designer for a small studio in Florida and I’d love your help on something. Hmu on how I can contact you. Stay groovy 🌙

[@ilovenierreplicant2983]

"Bruh you scale dark souls?" LES FKING GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I genuinely wanna see a video of you scaling Dark Souls. And Demon's Souls too if you played it! :D

[@kingced741]

Huh he seemed oddly respectful in your presence Did he just call out carthu bro

[@spaceman6463]

Outerverseal argument for kratos. Kratos beat bulder who beat the world serpent who when fighting Thor splinter the world tree, each strand of the world tree transcends space and time , each strand transcends the strand beneath it infinitely and there are infinite strands that’s one of the outerverseal arguments. It doesn’t say the concept of space and time so take it for what it is. The second one is in god of war 1 he kills the director of the game in a Easter egg which is definitely outerverseal.

[@dzigayu4944]

I know this is a joke, but the first one would more like be infinite dimensional even with hyper wank.

[@spaceman6463]

Dziga Yu The first one is contestable because it doesn’t say the concept of space and time. Also with the Unity Stone he stands out side of the world tree. The second one is outerversal being able to rewrite the story or hurt the Arthur is outerversal.

[@milesandrews6711]

@@spaceman6463 well those kinds of feats are contentious, because it's not actually the author himself, as in the real life author thy Kratos is hurting coz that's impossible, it's more of a fictional representation of the author which is harder to scale, if this so called author being viewed the GOW universe as fiction though then it would be outerversal

[@Debate_Archive]

thats not outer lmao

[@spaceman6463]

@@Debate_Archive Leaving the game is

[@EI-diablo-r9i]

I'm just glad all these points were brought up, which Seth is saying. Ki control and why it dosent translate to low power blasts being automatically just outliers. Other guy was spectacularly engaging and chill.

[@jonshukulli6944]

Needed this

[@cdadon7579]

This dude was so polite and Seth was popping off.😭

[@YonkoJay]

Nandayo!? Do my eyes deceive me? Is this...a Pinpin upload?

[@turnerbrawley4715]

Could you do another kingdom hearts powerscale more specifically organization 13 and potential dark souls power scale

[@WildStrawberryy]

It's rare to find anything good on vs battle wiki some stuff is okay to use but most of the time either extreme lowball or wank no in between

[@spinoirrex2433]

Mha is good because they calc everything in that verse

[@WildStrawberryy]

@@spinoirrex2433 MHA is pretty easy to calc tho. Stuff like Shinza bansho and Umineko which has complex cosmology is hard to calc

[@kami9143]

Eh? Majority of the time it's constant.

[@WildStrawberryy]

Kenpachi easily final arc Kenpachi is pretty strong

[@ghostface6195]

Keep posting debate videos these my favorite

[@gxashxg299]

Ah yes another holy upload

[@MrTinygod]

The only time I have a problem with new characters being introduced in people trying to put them up against older character is when it's like that character should not even be legitimately fighting them in advance of Mitch Match fight and it feels weird

[@zebkai2890]

YOOO Cal is a whole lot more aggressive and angry on vs battle wiki threads but on vc he is so innocent i feel so bad 😭😂😂 Still needs to debate me on Xeno Gokus speed and AP

[@Berlinbower]

i'm just curios, whats his and your stance on that? i don't know much about xeno goku scaleing

[@zebkai2890]

@@Berlinbower Goku should be high multiversal+ and immeasurable speed although when the forum ban is over it seems they will accept immeasurable speed (in general) but not for the blatant reasons. So the only big problem is him not being 5th dimensional in AP He at first did not agree with 2-A or infinitely 4-D but I think he has come to terms with it. But yeah the major problem is AP Edit: I think beyond stats is that the xeno characters are considered weak in their eyes compared to other verses but thats because they have so many abilities missing. So I guess hax abilities is another issue

[@KingBaller06gaming]

@@zebkai2890 This is a random question, but do you know a lot about power scaling and calculating speed and attack potency and all that (similar to what Seth does). If so would you please inform me on this subject and teach me (again I know this is random and I might be weirding you out but please consider it)?

[@jaydenburgos8017]

@@KingBaller06gaming do you think Luffy solos fiction?

[@KingBaller06gaming]

@@jaydenburgos8017 Who are you and why are you randomly talking to me about Straw Hat Luffy?

[@bravo2sixxx]

Been waiting for w upload on this channel

[@crimsonredkingdom2656]

He should address the Naruto side of vs wiki.

[@dbfan199]

They reworked the tier list if that’s what your talking about. It’s now broken ip into where the characters are from/their title.

[@dragonmasterxyz3544]

You guys do realize that each verse has its own set of members who deal with each verse right? Not every admin is in charge of or is knowledgeable on all verses.

[@dragonmasterxyz3544]

@@LUNA-zn7ep Thing is that Cal isn't exactly in charge of those verses, and unfortunately considering the shit he would have to deal with for opponents (as Naruto has some toxic opponents) for a series he's not as invested in. Not to mention that he does know about Seth and the fact that he does a lot of Naruto content as well.

[@calebhoward7763]

Special Stage I don’t deal with Naruto. I’m just familiar with it after being around so many debaters of it. I asked because I wanted to hear where he was coming from and if I could address the points. My main domain is Nintendo’s big four (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Kirby), Mega Man (classic and X), and Yu Yu Hakusho. Also what’s up, Dragonmasterxyz!!!

[@dragonmasterxyz3544]

@@calebhoward7763 Yo

[@jakesstatefarm]

I mean if you think about Kazuya amping herself that crazy with human Chakra its cool to entertain the idea that the tree has something to do with the gates and maybe nullifies them to generate more power.

[@HazzyFcrazy]

Do y’all ever have team debates? Is that a thing?

[@puffy_jr7521]

Glad to get another debate on this channel. But this wasn't even a debate it was manslaughter. Funny vid tho

[@johnpaquin366]

Seth It sounds like you're debating Joe Biden.

[@mightyso9281]

@Kevin Byrnes there was a little bit of Trump too lmaooo

[@thibaultl1956]

Joe Biden was actually pretty good in debates. key word: was

[@MrTreymeister]

I mean he's friends with Splash

[@Zwill1208]

@Kevin Byrnes If i remember correctly I watched a vid where the dude from comic vine said he made that up to make splash look bad

[@shravan7278]

I already know this is gonna be a train wreck based off of the description... Edit: Ay never mind this was pretty chill lmao

[@heavyiron3.016]

Vs battles wiki only uses outliers when they don’t wanna acknowledge how powerful a character actually is

[@YetiCoolBrother]

Where people fuck up when debating Seth is that they allow his aggression and smugness to get them flustered, and then by extension allow him to pigeonhole them into answering questions how he wants them to. Entertaining as hell but I’d love to see how Seth does against an equally intelligent opponent that keeps a cool head and is unintimidated by him (like myself). That being said this topic was a dumb one to debate anyway, we clearly saw Master Roshi vaporize the moon in Dragonball.

[@RokiRamosable]

Yo seth powerscaling dark souls or debating the guy who powerscales it on vs wiki would be awesome

[@brucedenver7830]

Bro, what is going on in the background lmao

[@capefeather]

I always kind of saw the vs wiki as its own argument not to take these arguments too seriously. Clearly when someone who takes multiple story modes or an entire JRPG to travel the world and then suddenly they're "low 2C" their power is far from the point of the story. But I guess many of the wiki's users aren't actually that self-aware...

[@godofthunder5485]

15:30 to 16:00 very very true I See this there all the time

[@lighttheprogrammeryt9173]

Aye finally pinpin is back 😂

[@StrawHat777]

That dude was fucking awesome 🤣🤣

[@SuperBearNeo]

I like how Cal is being respectful whilst Seth is trying to puff up his bird chest per usual Why people waste time with disrespectful niggas is beyond me

[@SuperBearNeo]

@@LUNA-zn7ep Irrelevant tho Being in a debate doesn't detach basic etiquette and respect towards the opponent. Debating is a mutually respective thing and not about puffing your chest. If you went to an actual debate like this, such as with a philosopher or whatever, one of two things would happen 1) They would rightfully not waste there time with you 2) They would likely laugh or draw attention to that and use it to their advantage

[@SuperBearNeo]

@@LUNA-zn7ep I never denied he did. It doesn't change the fact he did to begin with, but at lease he had the gut to apologize, so I'll give him that

[@beefjiggler5665]

Is PinPin a Loli now?

[@kami9143]

always has been 🔫

[@badnewsbears9358]

Well they ARE 15yo

[@polariluma]

I thought he was 14

[@badnewsbears9358]

@@polariluma It's been updated to 15

[@yokuutsu9097]

Why does this debate exist when he literally blew up the moon like he's fucking Doctor Eggman pissing on that shit

[@Kidkinsey]

Ayeee you back can u drop another 4 hour long debate session😭😭

[@godofthunder5485]

Well u were a bit more aggressive in early while he was polite lol though good Job debating vs battle Wiki the guy is good but their scaling isnt right

[@BoomBoxBlaz]

I argued Sonic games on Vs Wiki. And was told that because I wasn't nice (despite them harassing me about showcasing feats for Sonic, mind you) they weren't going to accept the biggest feats for Sonic's series. I get back, someone else has the exact same feats I have, and they accept them (not completely, saying that Solaris isn't multiversal because we don't know the scale of the Sonic multiverse despite "all of time being potentially consumed" and the Sonic Shuffle feats with the Dreamscape being Multiversal, etc). Like this person used everything I used to deploy feats. You have to be "nice" to them for them to accept feats, despite the lack of respect they give. Think of a real world instance where this happens... It's funny.

[@balazsdocs8897]

Solaris in even the games should be Low 1-C due to his Superdimensional nature.

[@balazsdocs8897]

@SSB Shira21 Solaris is literally stated to be a Super Dimensional entity in the fight against him.

[@balazsdocs8897]

@SSB Shira21 No, I did not. Solaris being a Super Dimensional entity would mean he's beyond our conventional 4D spacetime, as Super Dimensional is synonymous with extra-dimensional, which also means a dimension beyond conventional 4D spacetime. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra_dimensions

[@trent800]

@@balazsdocs8897 super dimensional being means 5D 5D Porygon and Ultra beasts when seriously that is retarded thinking super dimensional is enough for 5D

[@theloserswithaplan724]

Very chill dude it seems

[@mustfalldown7871]

Seth I love you ❤️

[@gintokithetrollgod]

Mud crabs from Skyrim are Outerversal

[@potential1327]

Please do this again with Naruto😂😂🙏

[@RP-zl5ix]

Holy shit. I feel so bad for the Vsbattle wiki Admin

[@Vin-fu1rm]

I would like to hear the one person that beat Seth on a debate!

[@DarkSkinDoffy]

Wade Strife. Arodaro is iffy, but I know Wade has definitely won debates against Seth back when G+ was a thing.

[@DarkSkinDoffy]

@Kevin Byrnes Debater from some years ago.

[@DarkSkinDoffy]

@Kevin Byrnes Don't know. I only know the debaters back from G+ like Arodaro, Trini, Wade, Raph, Mashi, Seth, Port, TheAntichrist, etc etc

[@jaylango9301]

@Kevin Byrnes They had a falling out a few years ago

[@SSJUnderDog]

I remember the G+ days

[@ishowspeedplug2845]

i mean it is literally only cope to watch roshi blow up the moon and then say he is town level. like what are we even doing

[@technore9029]

Bro where does seth even debate like this, like where do the se clips come from??

[@doctorfloppa2021]

Idk about others but he made a temporary server (he deletes it after the debate) on discord and debates there and posts a link on his twitter while he debates for his fans to see and after the debate he deletes it

[@technore9029]

BOB BOB oh thnx for explaining

[@technore9029]

Kevin Byrnes if by the otsutski you mean also hagormo he no diffs both of them

[@technore9029]

Kevin Byrnes ishiki alone bodies ichigo the only problem is aizen but then again hago no diffs

[@technore9029]

Kevin Byrnes he exist on a different dimensional plane

[@jonshukulli6944]

Oh yea last time I checked I think they have ssj4 gogeta and jiren both at 3A and in the “notable victories” section they said ssj4 gogeta beats jiren. Do they not realize base goku bare minimum rof arc slaps all of gt lol

[@skyriminecrafthalo4]

It’s manga jiren. They are A LOT weaker in the manga.

[@jonshukulli6944]

DTG499 oh ok I’m much more familiar with the anime scale so I’m not sure about the specifics but I’m pretty sure from what I remember the bog universal stuff is relatively the same in the manga infact iirc didn’t Seth say the feat in the manga might actually be stronger because it’s presented as instant compared to the anime either way the super manga probably also stomps gt

[@skyriminecrafthalo4]

Jon Shukulli the exact timeframe is unknown and there was no mention of them destroying the Kiao shin realm or the afterlife.

[@jonshukulli6944]

DTG499 hmm ok I’ll take your word for it I’m only reading the moro arc(some mid btw) so I can’t really agree or disagree with you fully lol💀 if it’s anime tho it’s stupid like the difference between jiren and ssj4 gogeta is like millions of times I don’t even want to think about

[@skyriminecrafthalo4]

Jon Shukulli the feat is high tier multi galaxy level borderline universal.

[@reptilian_geneticist]

I think buff Roshi was probably around the same strength as king piccolo or possibly slightly stronger (260-280)... BUT his buff form probably slowed him down considerably, similar to Ultra Trunks vs Cell.... so Buff roshi would probably be stronger but too slow to hit King Piccolo... and his stamina would be horrible as well.

[@ganas3]

It's not the japanese that doesn't separate z from OG. It's the manga. The source material. Not bound by japan only.

[@kmslyda4530]

Seth has yet to scale DMC characters Sparda is the most wanked character in dmc by lore alone and with power feats in about every game The anime, manga and novels are also cannon to the games And dimensional teiring is required since there's alot to go over The vs wiki wanked off Nero that beat a tired and non-interested Vergil and smacked a tired out Dante after he fighting 5 bossess back-to-back before Nero arrived to interfere Sparda basically sealed off hell, transfered his remaining power into force edge with the perfect amulet that can reveal the true form of force edge into Devil Sword Sparda and that was after Arkham used the power of Sparda when it was still force edge in its dormant state. Sparda then gave Dante some insane power boost against Mundus that is basically DMC's ewuivalent to Satan that Sparda also sealed when he sealed off hell from the world 9f the living. This is only discussing Dmc 3 and 1. Dmc 4 Dante was god mode and never got serious. Even saw a skyscraper sized animate statue trying to kill him as a game, Dmc 2 Dante shat on Argosax stated to be as powerful as Mundus without his devil trigger. In the novel he shat on anotger version of Argosax, defeated Nightmare a creation even Mundus feared because it could lay waste to hell. Mundus by himself was stated being so powerful that his existence by itself was a threat to timelines. It just continues with how much dmc has. Beowulf is stated to create small supernovas (devil arm form). I'll stop, Dmc is a beast of its own

[@jordantinucci3509]

dont forget in the dmc anime which takes place in between 1 and 2, dante one shots abigail(who is stated to be relative to mundus) with just his normal devil trigger which just goes to further show dantes power progression throughout. mundus apparently also was going to fill an infinite amount of dimensions with darkness but I still have to look into it. the nerotards are so retarded too, its like they forget that dante and vergil massively weaken themselves after fighting, in dmc 3 they weaken themselves so much that arkham literally shits on both of them even with ladys help, so thats like going form god tier to fucking fodder demon level lmao. Plus vergil was holding back cuz nero is literally his son and the entire scene there is also an homage to dmc 3. Sparda is a weird to scale ngl, he reminds me so much of hagoromo and hamura from naruto.

[@kmslyda4530]

@@jordantinucci3509 IKR. Sparda is ambiguous as is since he's never on screen at all. In DMC 5 with no rest Dante and Vergil were still shitting on fodder demon level beings with no problem even after going 50 rounds against each other like it was a game. Vergil is hax as fuck because of Yamato. He can spam juxgement cuts that wss stated from Dmc 3 to be 1,000 to 10,000 swings and he can spam that shit and it cuts through dimensions and Dante can block these attacks with Royal guard which can even block J-cut final. Dmc is ridiculous

[@rayvonvelez3129]

Vs wiki had dmc characters as universal + is this true?

[@jordantinucci3509]

@@kmslyda4530 dude plus all the hax vergil got as urizen too man its crazy, I can't wait to play is vergil again dude I hope we get to see his developed devil trigger from the concept art and his sin devil trigger🗿

[@kmslyda4530]

​@@rayvonvelez3129 It's consistent actually. The feats from Sparda sealing of the dark and light worlds that are confirmed 2 universes, sealing Mundus, and Argosax the Chaos (Sparda sealed him while weakened and with help to seal him) and possibly more that rivaled Mundus and surpassed the power of Sparda himself still sealing off gods. Though he had help from a priest to completely seal off Argosax with his raw power for 2000 years and prevented the qlipoth tree that could merge hell and earth together, Mundus actually did do before without the tree doing it for him, and Sparda serperated them, against the same guy that ate a fruit from teh tree that grows every few thousand years was also trying to merge earth and hell. He created a universe on screen. Dante feats are ridiculous, it's better to play them or watch the Mundus boss fight to see how insane Mundus feats are by themselves, let alone base Dante deflecting light before it could even reach him from the Mundus Statue before it was revealed to be Mundus. Mundus began to covet the realm of humans and planned to take over the universe. As a result, his right-hand man, Sparda, rebelled against him and defeated and sealed him away. Dante with the Sparda amp is massively FTL and Dante was growing stronger from that amp and Dante in his base form then was a match for Mundus in the second phase. Mundus cannot be killed, but Dante could seal him. He did the same to Argosax the chaos and an abstract concept of Despair embodied in base with no devil trigger and no amps, casually. The FTL statements I made are still too consistent as Argosax even attacks with light and it's nothing to Dante. Dante defeated the right hand man of Argosax Balrog and it's another feat for Dante since he's not burned by Balrog's hellfire at all. Balrog was stated even stronger than Berial the son of Mundus that Dante one-shotted in DMC 4 after he had his fun with him. Even Berial's hellfire didn't burn him. Beowulf in dmc 3 is another example, he uses light attacks and Dante could evade them and take direct attacks from him and it did jack shit to Dante at 19 years old early in his career. Dante in teh anime defeated the 2 apprentices of Sparda that were stated to be able to slay thousands of demons in a single slash, and Dante one-shotted them both, no devil trigger and he was casual about it. Eating a fruit from the qlipoth tree and it's pretty much the same one from folklores, the tree of death, the fruit will grant anyone that eats it divine power. Urizen at this same fruit Mundus did and Dante in base shat on Urizen after eating it after he got amped with Sparda and rebellion becoming one and giving him his final devil trigger, Sin DT is so broken that's it's not even funny. Sin DT is basically god mode, godlike power Dante becomes a true demon, Sin DT Dante's judgement cut can ignore convientional durability and the range is debatably universal but I highly doubt it but it seems to hit from anywhere. Dante also played with a giant Sparda statue they called the Savior and never took it seriosuly and it was the side of a sky scraper, he blocked punches from it casually in 4 like it was a joke. Dante is already beyond the power of Sparda Some people tryed to call him City level, when Dante defeated a boss he considered fodder and she was city level by manipulating the weather which is a city level feat by itself and Dante claps her like she ain't shit to him (Echida) . Calling Dante City level is disprescting the man eniterely. Not to mention Dante has 7 different styles. Trickerster, Swordmaster,gunslinger, royal gaurd, quick silver, and doppelganger All some insane hax that make him even harder to fight if fighting him without them wasn't hard enough. Royal guard even blocks spatial attacks as proven with Yamato that can cut through dimensions and opens a portal like nothing. Yamato is a katana dark forged by Sparda that is so sharp it can cut through dimensions which ignores convientional durablity but that's another story of how overpowered that weapon is Dante with Royal gaurd: Dreadnaught, his durability is drasticaly even more insane. Royal guard with perfect parries gives Dante the energy of the attack and he can return it to you, even projectiles are subject to royal returns and royal revenge (royal guard techniques) full power royal guard can possibly oneshot on the return. Quick silver is Dante's time manipulatoin from early in his career, absolutely hax, dopple ganger is Dante's shadow that basically is just as strong as Dante and can fight just as effectively/ The systles just carry on with multiple facets, not to mention his profiency with every weapon he has attained, early with their own devil trigger variants for Dante to use. It goes on fam, DMC feats are godlike

[@Ramona122003]

It should be noted that Roshi said Tien would have likely beating him at the 22nd tournament and Goku in the manga version of that tournament was noticeably stronger than Tien. So I would argue that 22nd tournament Goku surpassed Roshi even by a small degree. Also, Roshi said Goku may have surpassed him after he destroyed the Red Ribbon Army and Roshi trained in secret for the 22nd tournament, so Roshi was even stronger than when he blew up the moon. So you can make the argument that Goku was stronger than Roshi after Koran’s Tower based on Roshi’s statement.

[@muddtheboss415]

Yeah it is confirmed by one of the databooks. He was 150 when he blew up the moon and that was in his buff form. Then later he was above or equal to 150 (dont remember the actual number) in his base form when he was fighting tien. tien had a power level of 180 btw so roshi should be less than that.

[@Ramona122003]

@@muddtheboss415 The Power Levels for the original Dragon Ball are funky since according to the data books, Goku should have beating half powered Old King Piccolo since the power different between them was only around 80. Yet, Piccolo directly tells Goku that he was using less than half his power and was giving him a Frieza style beating. That and they said Goku had a Power Level of 10 at the beginning of the series, making him twice as strong as a normal human. Yet, Mr. Satan is more than twice as strong as a normal human and have worse feats than Kid Goku, including getting nearly killed by a bullet when no ki training Goku could tank machine guns. Finally, the data books implied that Roshi had the same power level throughout Dragon Ball when we know that Roshi trained and got stronger for the 22 tournament.

[@Elikage]

How can I get in this discord it seems so excited to debate and speculate these types of things 😁

[@fome5093]

I tried to so much but no 1 responds I’m pretty sure it’s on private now😪

[@doctorfloppa2021]

Just wanna point out power levels still aren’t linear even after moon busting, the Kaioken thing is kinda weird but we get 10,000 in EML being implied to be the minimum for planet level (or maybe large planet) and frieza being calced to dwarf star level at 530,000, I think power levels are linear unless it’s a direct case like these tho,

[@nsnsnns2183]

What's weird about the kaioken thing though?

[@doctorfloppa2021]

Nsns Nns because one thing we know is power levels are not linear they are exponential Power level 180 is only 36 times power level 5, even tho that’s comparing blowing up the moon to a regular human, kaioken in itself multiplies power level so by that logically the boost it provides would be exponential too since ki by itself is exponential, the problem comes when it’s stated that kaioken only doubles the users speed strength and fighting stats, if it simply said doubles the ki it would be consistent but saying something doubles speed and strength implies it to be linear

[@nsnsnns2183]

@@doctorfloppa2021 So how does that make Kaioken a problem? If it just doubles the user's strength, speed and fighting stats as well as I guess power level. Also power levels became more linear as the series went on seeing as there wasn't any big jumps in power like with 5-200+ also 180 isn't what it takes to destroy the moon more like 200-300 is moon level and that's the power level Roshi can produce with the Kamehameha.

[@doctorfloppa2021]

Nsns Nns my intial point was power levels ARENT linear later since frieza with a PL of 530K was calced to mid dwarf star and no matter where you scale anyone it can’t be linear in this case because the large planet piccolo scaling applies to the anime only so as far as the manga he’d only be like moon level and maybe small planetary, and there’s a guide implying a PL of 10,000 is required to destroy a planet (for the manga anyways) where in the anime frieza with PL 530K can be calced to large star or even solar system level so no matter how you look at it a linear power levels are impossible

[@doctorfloppa2021]

Nsns Nns also Kaioken does multiply power levels so it would stil be contradicted as if someone with a Lower PL ( like 60 or something) it would have to be an exponential boost based on power levels but Kaioken specifically doubles so it’s a contradiction

[@xavierpittman1533]

I want to see some One Piece scales please

[@xoxocarl8347]

ooo I hope this is a juicy one boys

[@SonGokutheramaneesh]

Yo have you ever debated said tora or niarobi?

[@KoyomiMojo]

why tf does this wiki admit keep saying "again"? the dude hadnt even said anything yet and hes acting like seth is making him repeat himself over and over

[@godofthunder5485]

17:30 to 18:00 very true

[@thezombiepanda5065]

the debate is on if master roshi is moon level or not from dragon ball

[@RP-zl5ix]

Man that Cal was to intimidated. He should have used the difference between Moon level Piccolo and vegetas Power level as his argument. Also why Cell and Frieza ? Buu would be much better

[@gokublack5831]

I'm not even finished watching this and I already love it and yeah I do the same mistake sometimes i wont lie sometimes not sure cause people are alwsys on the offensive in with certain topics and debates and not realize that there not trying to attack me lol so I understand .I think most people should understand as well.esepcially people who debate.

[@spinoirrex2433]

Son Goku (movies) Each key is a different movie unless they connect to one another like the cooler movies and the broly movies

[@neo84401]

Please do a dark souls power scale

[@don8535]

That intro 🤣🤣🤣🤦🤦 cordial

[@sledgethomas9499]

But what exactly did he want to debate? He just agreed with literally everything u said? I’m so confused 🤷‍♂️ lol

[@unholt912]

That is what debating is

[@ziongamer6905]

They didn’t have a reason to get heated and the homie was chill, it was more of a learning experience than anything

[@sledgethomas9499]

ZionGamer a debate doesn’t have to be innately aggressive or mean lol but there should be some dissonance and not just one side bringing up a topic for the other side to just explain it? That’s not a debate; that’s a teaching session which is fine I was just confused on what he was trying to “debate” lol

[@ziongamer6905]

Sledge Thomas Ik what a debate is, I’m just sayin since most people expect that from Seth. But that being said, you’re completely right, it was a more of a teaching moment, which I respect.

[@luckwannabe9352]

Kinda unrelated but who do you think would win Deku vs Asta