Settling Ace Attorney's Greatest Debate

The Ladder vs. Stepladder debate is one of the most iconic memes to come out of Ace Attorney, but is it really as much of a stalemate as its 20-year history suggests?
Thanks to ‪@8edhead‬ for voicing Maya! And to SibilantSerpent for providing voice direction!
My Patreon:
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Paula’s Patreon:
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(Also, a note: The decision to touch on social issues in this video was made out of what I felt was a legitimate connection to the larger topic. I stand by this decision, but in case you're worried this is gonna become a stealth politics channel or something just know I don't plan to touch on similar issues in future videos of this style without an equally compelling reason.)
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Mornal Productions ain't your normal productions! This channel specializes in funny animated sketches and voice acting, based on game series ranging from the Ace Attorney franchise to Undertale and Deltarune. All sorts of comic dubs, comedy animations (made either by me in 3D or in collaboration with Paula Peroff), parodies, and impressions are here to see. Hope you enjoy!

[@Mornal]

What do you think? Is Phoenix right, or is Maya? Did my argument change your opinion at all? (And happy belated TDoR 😊)

[@rasengdori13]

I seriously had to get up and walk around the room with how much you blew my mind hearing Phoenix say “That’s a trans woman”.

[@gamerzan953]

You made a fair argument. Did change my opinion. One thing I will say is that I grew up with a mindset of having being clear and accurate when talking about something. I also often try to correct people when unnecessary (and sometimes I will be wrong and admit it). I'm just wired to be have things be more accurately defined. So while I will say Maya is correct, I still side with Phoenix. I just to have my facts straight.

[@Blargenth]

I think your character is cute

[@insertobligatoryreferenceh489]

I’d argue Phoenix is still right, as whenever this argument is brought up, the question “What’s the difference?” pops up. This implies that whoever is arguing that it’s a ladder believes it to be something other than a stepladder. Otherwise, they’d have likely said something like “So? Isn’t it still a ladder?” Thus, when they say ladder, they are likely referring to something like a rung ladder, rather than the umbrella term mentioned in the video. …I should probably be doing my physics homework.

[@RoseTheGuy]

I was on team Phoenix for all of my life, and now I'm on team Maya for life.

[@YoBoyNeptune]

Here's my two cents: Wright was right to correct her because in legal matters it's important to be as specific as possible. For example: lets say someone is accused of hiding a body in a hole in the ceiling in the center of a room that is 4 meters tall using a 3.5 meter tall ladder. The defendant would call this into question because a ladder shorter than the ceiling would not be able to support itself, but a step ladder would

[@king_poyo64]

That actually makes sense, as a Lawyer of course he’s prone to being as specific as possible. It’s his job after all, and many cases hinge on this logic and way of thinking.

[@Spygirl812]

Makes sense actually.

[@rasengdori13]

VERY fair point. A lawyer would be keen to specific details like that, regardless of correcting Maya out of instinct of his profession OR an urge to seem more intelligent than her in that moment.

[@animal_gal_adventures9885]

Aw so he wasn't being rude. He was just being logical and not thinking about how it could be misinterpreted

[@ZT1ST]

On the other hand - the potential of a 3.5 meter tall ladder not being able to support itself gives a potential opening for the ladder not being grounded, but being supported above, in the hole in the ceiling. Or simply that it was in the hole in the ceiling and dropped down to make it seem like someone climbed up to get to the hole in the ceiling... ...Whereas the culprit instead simply dropped the ladder down the hole after the murder to throw investigators off the trail.

[@MazzaAzi]

I'll be honest, I didn't expect 'Accidentally transphobic Phoenix' to be used as evidence. I didn't expect 'Accidentally transphobic Phoenix' at all.

[@rasengdori13]

I really appreciate Phoenix pointing out that words were being put into his mouth so that he's not painted as "the bad guy" in this situation where it escalates from ladder terminology to a subtle transphobic remark.

[@prosecutorwalton]

Imagine if Mornal paired that with Apollo's explicit denial that its a ladder.

[@sarahlockhart2180]

Looks like he....turned his thinking around. xD

[@Queen_PerfectHeart_S2]

Seriously, i just be going on with my day and then i randomly remember Phoenix saying "that's a *trans* woman" and i almost laugh every time

[@BottleofJarritos]

Sometimes it just feels like Maya was just saying words and happened to be right

[@AnEmu404]

I think that’s what she always does

[@BottleofJarritos]

@@AnEmu404 Yeah fair

[@Emily12471]

She always seems to just be saying words

[@GuitarOfTime0116]

That's just how Maya is

[@mertensiam3384]

That's just a teenager for you

[@rasengdori13]

*In short:* They are both essentially correct, but a lot of it comes down to semantics and intention when Phoenix "corrects" Maya by pointing out that the ladder is _specifically_ a step-ladder.

[@bananaraptor7747]

Just saying Ladder gives plausible deniability to what you said though. In the casual conversation with nick and maya it is a situation where that general term is used to simply point something out, making maya completely right and nick kinda of a 👆🤓.

[@stupiditiusmaximus]

We litterally don't know if Phoenix is correct. And what we could be seeing could be something which isn't a ladder, but it probably is. So Maya wins completely unscathed.

[@noriakiboi2452]

Nah team ladder is still objectively correct. A step-ladder is at it's core a type of ladder. So saying "that's not a ladder that's a step-ladder" is like saying "that's not a vehicle that's a car"

[@averytubestudios]

So ultimately, this entire argument boils down to squares and rectangles. How did I not see this coming?

[@matiaspereyra9392]

Don't You mean rectangles and the other rectangles?

[@averytubestudios]

@@matiaspereyra9392 Oh no.

[@SMPandanic]

@@averytubestudios OH YES WE HAVE THE NEW ARGUMENT IN THE ROOM!

[@CloudyCora]

@@matiaspereyra9392you’re both WRIGHT (ha get it)

[@cottoncandysans]

i just remembered this and came back to comment it does the conclusion in the video work for it though? because a rectangle can't be a square unless it's a square which is a rectangle

[@Buggy__]

Can’t even lie i was expecting something either like this or if the debate was “is miles edgeworth gay”. Can’t even lie this is peak

[@timothymclean]

That's not a debate; fandom consensus has long established that Miles is gay.

[@KyleRayner12]

@@timothymclean Also, they literally sell Miles and Phoenix-themed wedding rings as official merch.

[@YukiKitty]

"Is water wet"

[@timothymclean]

@@KyleRayner12 To be fair, they're selling those because so many people ship Miles and Phoenix, not the other way around.

[@YukiKitty]

@@timothymclean nah we made it canon. Think of it like politicians giving concessions to protesters

[@ValorCrash]

The initial joke is about how step-CHILDREN and step-PARENTS are just as valid as blood children and parents. It's using "STEP" as the wordplay.

[@FrostFire425]

Yeah, I'm surprised that wasn't mentioned in the video...

[@darkacadpresenceinblood]

oh my god i've been making "what are you doing stepladder" jokes all this time and still didn't realize this- you're so smart for this what

[@kricku]

It's not my real ladder. It's my stepladder!

[@angsilaw]

HOW DID I NOT GET THIS JOKE

[@urieldaboamorte]

​@@darkacadpresenceinblood I can't do this anymore 😭

[@sammypenguin1257]

"Nick! Look! A Woman!" is my new Roman Empire

[@falconeshield]

Can you please let go of the Roman Empire, America never even got conquered by them

[@glo_bin]

​@@falconeshieldtogether we can fix this

[@bennytennyson]

"That's a step-woman" "What's the difference"

[@PhantomAarantula]

Team Stepladder. Maya needs to remember her friend is a lawyer so by encouraging him to not get hung up over small details, she runs the risk of him actually losing a case. Which would be terrible considering she needed him to defend her several times in court.

[@smugbowkid9919]

This is surprisingly high quality for such a stupid meme. I love it. It’s so amazing.

[@SEiMEi_EXiSTS]

1:12 You know what else is not even remotely settled? Apollo’s mom …not telling him and Trucy that they are siblings!

[@matiaspereyra9392]

I always thought that if phoenix detected a WIFF of something starting to go on between those 2 he would let it be known then just be able to clown on Apollo

[@Emily12471]

​@@matiaspereyra9392or until apollo's mother tells them straight up

[@Josuh]

wait this is a thing i only played the first ace attorney

[@jusatesst]

​@Josuh well yeah you're kind of spoiled now but carry on playing the series, the remaster of the 2nd trilogy is coming 24th Jan so good for you you don't have to port the ds/3ds games on the pc or something if you dont have the console. It's not too big a plot point atm anyway.. and yeah if you want to avoid more spoilers I'd stay off ace attorney related content😅

[@dorgj6067]

Tbh the only way I could explain this is if Phoenix somehow is being blackmailied by Thalassa, why else wouldn't he say anything about it? He has no reason to hide it

[@MagicCardboardBox]

Step-ladder is a subset of ladder that is usually shorter and stands by itself. So it's both, I guess.

[@gododoof]

I had to do a ladder training course at work and it actually had a whole section about the differences between ladders and step ladders. You know I was thinking of Ace Attorney and giggling like a madman the whole time.

[@Someguyfromtheinternet36]

Thank you Mornal! Now when my client asks "why do you care about a ladder? i'm going to die in three days cause of a coffee drinking psycho who looks like he's Cyclops' crazy estranged brother!" I can say "Yeah but my 17 year old spirit medium assistant who barely knows about law let alone about the real world needs to know what's the diffrence between a ladder and a ladder."

[@Finikss01]

epic

[@TyphinHoofbun]

I still feel like Maya said that to throw Phoenix off and try to claim the win. I don't feel like Phoenix was being exclusionary, I felt like Phoenix felt like "ladder" without qualification referred so often to rung ladder that he wanted to show off knowing the technical difference, and was blindsided by the "cultural assumptions" line, and just noped out of the developing argument. Like, he was going "Here's a cool piece of trivia" and found himself getting an argument about cultures and bailed. Or, OR, he's worried there is some difference in culture from Maya being a spirit medium from Kurain, realized he was in over his head, and decided to bail on the spot because he had no knowledge to try to talk about there. I still think Maya was trolling, but he decided he wasn't gonna take that risk and call her on it. Also, love and support from a fellow trans girl. ^_^

[@hedgehog3180]

I think it's just that Phoenix has a tendency to be detail oriented and very specific since he's a lawyer so he has a slightly annoying tendency to correct people and Maya thought quick and realized she could get one over on him by making a reference to step parents.

[@darkacadpresenceinblood]

wait, *fellow* ??? Mornal is transfem? damn all the cool fandom people always are trans, why am i surprised :D thx for the throwaway comment i wouldn't have known this otherwise!

[@natecgames4612]

Not to add heat to the flame. But Construction wise a ladder is meant to be held by one person to get another person to a higher place (following OSHA guildlines) usually mounted on a wall for extra support. A step ladder is the same consept except its not only heavily advised to stop climbing the ladder once your foot touches the second to last "rung" which usually looks more like a step, while also having the ladder itself being held on its own and advised not to climb while closed even with ladder safety in mind. Basically a step ladder is what was made when some construction worker wanted to make portable stairs due to the "steps" for more convenience and safety to climb than a ladder.

[@a-s-greig]

Way to bring _OSHA_ into this...

[@Celtic1020]

​@@a-s-greig It's a series about law.

[@a-s-greig]

@@Celtic1020 ...in Japan.

[@iwasboredyay]

Hang on. Trucy was right about it not being a folding ladder. A step ladder can only be opened and closed on one hinge while a folding ladder generally has multiple hinges allowing for it to be shaped in several ways such as a straight line and an A frame among other shapes. Folding ladders are also more compact due to being able to fold up smaller.

[@sev1120]

Also, folding ladders can have either runs or steps depending on the manufacturer, so there's folding rung ladders and folding step ladders, with folding step ladders usually being designed around how they can be used to gain various different heights from the steps

[@mysterym6757]

Phoenix Wright is a lawyer. It’s in the job description to be overbearingly and overwhelmingly specific.

[@TheEngineer28]

😂😂😂

[@magtea3836]

Dude this is one of the highest quality videos I’ve seen in months it feels like you’ve been doing this kind of content for years keep it up

[@Sigma-gb9yd]

You can literally see the locking hinges on that particular STEP-ladder, right on the left side. How was this ever even an argument?

[@animal_gal_adventures9885]

And wasn't like every other ladder a step ladder

[@LogCabinMusic]

@@animal_gal_adventures9885 im like 99% sure there is not a single normal ladder in any ace attorney game

[@atherapists3331]

@@LogCabinMusic "normal" ladder?!!

[@tang620]

​@@atherapists3331this is extra hilarious with the context of the video now

[@svgaming263]

@@atherapists3331 bruh really just watched a whole video about words and decided to use the worst one in the context

[@StickMaster500]

While this may be one of the most important questions to come out of the 21st century of gaming, what I really want to know that I'm surprised hasn't been talked about is what was Grossberg doing in the boathouse?

[@death1019]

Rt? Or is this a really common question?

[@catboyedgeworth2469]

boathouse?

[@cat1554]

Probably something related to haemorrhoids.

[@lattedecoffee6781]

Damn now I gotta figure out how to continue being team stepladder without simultaneously being a transphobe lol

[@keelanbarron928]

Well, it's simple: if you're not a transphobe, then you aren't a transphobe.

[@violetlavi2207]

You can be Team Both! That’s what I am

[@Mornal]

Yeah do wanna be clear that it's not that serious lmao

[@tdc3477]

@@Mornalno, it IS that serious. As a former member of team step-ladder, you are now my mortal enemy and I shall exact my revenge swiftly and silently.

[@michaelcarlton1484]

Phoenix can just as easily identify a women as a Cis Woman, implying that there are other kinds of women under the umbrella, such as Trans Women. Phoenix remains based.

[@theybuck_]

There's also a couple Ladder vs. Step Ladder conversations in TGAA2, although it's actually a bit different than the typical argument, and Ryunosuke manages to sidestep the argument entirely after being lectured by Iris that both terms apply.

[@KrytenKoro]

Ladder isnt an umbrella term, its a ladder term. Umbrellas are for rain

[@Velocityyyyyyyy]

lol

[@JJ_R]

Finally, addressing the important issues!

[@JoSephGD]

Using a single line of thought, potentially merely an example that could be substituted out for another example, to completely turn an argument on its head... That's exactly the kind of action that I expect to see out of this series. Good job.

[@Vanni008]

i was thinking "wouldn't it be easier to just say the thing about squares and rectangles instead of explaining the meaning of trans woman" but then you replaced the words in the interaction and that was honestly a brilliant move

[@mouthlesshater]

4:48 that hit me like a fucking truck. it's in good faith as far as i know, of course, but i was NOT expecting to hear that in this video.

[@laeva495]

hit me more like a stepladder to the head

[@danielbarnes1241]

Gave full warning multiple times and everything and it still hit me a thinker statue to the heaf

[@Stevoisiak]

The stepladder argument also comes up in Ace Attorney Investigations 2, although that only sort of counts since there's no official english translation. Fantastic job on the video!

[@bluejay21.]

Well, we'll find out soon enough with a real transition

[@mamamiaawoodenboy]

I don’t have the game but now there’s a translation!

[@nova_da_silli]

"Look, Nick! A woman!" killed me

[@hisho2255]

Are we ever gonna get another video like this? Its unparalleled in its excellence.

[@PoyoPowerPlant]

Those animated bits in the middle were so awesome! I think they absolutely helped in getting the point across, and comedy to boot!

[@TheDanTheManShow]

Thank you for stepping up and looking at this from a lateral perspective

[@lekkobot]

I think my argument would be that stepladders should not be used in the same way as a ladder. Sure you could lean it up against the wall and walk up it but the legs won't contact the ground properly and the rungs will be pointing up. So from a safety standpoint phoenix wins. Calling it a ladder isn't incorrect however the difference in function is big enough that if you are training someone how to use a ladder or you have both in stock in a shop you should go over the difference. Perhaps phoenix had a traumatic experience falling off a stepladder that was leaned against a wall. Edit: or he just worked in construction

[@sev1120]

If I recall, he started off majoring in the arts before transferring into studying law, which explains his lawyering style. Based on what we know, he transferred in his second year of university to a law degree. There was likely one or two accidents in a classroom involving ladder and/or a stepladder, and their teacher drilled into their heads the difference between the two

[@AcidRayn24]

Your trans rights analogy is also supported by mathematics: A rectangle is a parallelogram with two sets of parallel sides and four right interior angles. A square is the same as above, but all four sides must be the same length. I.e. every square is a rectangle but not every rectangle is a square. Every stepladder is a ladder but not every ladder is a stepladder. And finally, every trans woman is a woman, but not every woman is trans. Case closed.

[@bestboisoupsoup]

Is geometry under the "mathematics" umbrella?

[@danielbarnes1241]

​@@bestboisoupsoupyeah.

[@yggdrasilsaltar]

the major thing i learned from this is that every fandom has some sort of “is pronounced hydro-city or hydrossity” debate

[@Epicthomas1000]

2 months later and this is still one of my favourite video essays of all time because of all the animations and excellent script. Please make more of these , this is so good.

[@potatersstash3172]

Idk what i was expecting, but it definitely wasn't such a well put-together video with a very sound and decisive resolution to a debate I didn't even know existed serious props for making one of the most entertaining videos I've seen in a long while

[@PiaPancakes]

Holy moly. I couldn’t have predicted how much you improved in animation quality. Great job! I hope you can finally rest easy before slaving after the next video ❤

[@camilogarciaylasaari1857]

Here i was expecting a short funny haha meme like a damn FOOL when all along it was a 13 minute funny haha excellently written and animated video essay. You've outdone yourself, Mornal. Amazing job.

[@poprocks6576]

Similar examples but different to the “that’s not a woman that’s a trans woman” “Wow Pheonix look a man” “No Maya that’s a *black* man” “Wow Pheonix look a person” “No Maya that’s a woman” “Wow Pheonix look a worker” “No Maya that’s a blue collar worker” “Wow Pheonix look a military personnel” “No Maya that’s a Cornel” “Wow Pheonix look a college graduate” “No Maya that’s a PhD graduate” “Wow Pheonix look a kid” “No Maya that’s a tween”

[@Sergeantmajormario]

Phoenix: "Dear God the latter.." Mornal: "It's the ladder!" I'm not sure if you interpreted it to be that way or not, but if so, then that was clever my friend!

[@noahxolotl]

This video, from a structural pov, is a fucking masterpiece. I love it, the editing is on point and the 3D render Parts are extremely well done! Great job on settling this dilemma Mornal ❤

[@KINGBADASS100]

I hope you know this video got me interested to check out Ace Attorney.

[@Katy133]

Maya was playing 4D chess with us all along.

[@KonDragon008]

Wasn't expecting a Shenpai clip here. Yay, clips! I miss the animated AA comic shorts; I went back and rewatch them from time to time (Flipping the Parrot, Building a Bridge, and Lowering the Bar are my favs).

[@ThisGreenDingo]

I was NOT prepared to laugh this hard XD (Also it’s so interesting how the first ladder is the only one to be inconsistently drawn)

[@MikeNoob101]

People are busy saying that Phoenix cross examining a parrot is stupid while theyre out here trying to find the answer to the ladder vs stepladder debate

[@kdevelopergw]

This is under the assumption that Nick *meant to* correct Maya, rather than to add to her statement, i can see it going both ways, though for the adding i guess saying "To be more specific..." would be more fitting than "That's a...", but you cannot judge on whether or not he meant to call Maya wrong, since we don't even have a good way of telling what his tone is, we only know that he's accenting the sentence on "step" in step-ladder

[@bane2201]

Yeah, I think he was just adding to her statement. I know this is an investigation scene and not the courtroom, but he's still probably in the "legal mindset" of high precision. Can't really blame him. In some cases in the series, saying "someone used their hand" wouldn't be precise enough, because the fact that they specifically used their _left_ hand is relevant.

[@Monhamd1000]

Ending this gag is genuinely beautiful, ironically that is.

[@United.States.Army1945]

12:00 Well, that explains the character design. I didn't put that together at first.

[@inufan330]

A whole video essay on a niche meme that is fully animated! It is so extra and I am here for it!

[@Cerbleur07]

BOTH ARE CORRECT, "LADDER" is in both words so are Ladders.

[@cosmicucumber4471]

This was way more entertaining than I'd thought it'd be lmao

[@atamapatto]

This all felt like a particularly elaborate episode of Game Theory and I'm here for it

[@THExLIFExISxTOxSHORT]

Amazing stuff. Now I want an indepth analysis of every argument

[@PaktNisely]

Truly fire content. Always love your stuff c:

[@slypretenseofstumbling9529]

After watching the video, I have developed a slightly different take on this. Phoenix and Maya are not actually talking about ladders, but are revealing their important character distinctions by using ladders as a foil for their differing approaches to investigating. Phoenix is a rather judgy person who believes in specificity for the sake of an accurate investigation. Maya takes a more general, devil-may-care approach and can be a bit aloof, often making connections that can seem silly or illogical at times. In the argument, Phoenix asserts that maya should be more specific when referring to the surroundings (potential clues). Maya asserts that making such specific determinations too quickly can lead to bias. The same thing can be perceived differently to two different people, after all. Then again, ladders are probably one of the worst examples that Maya could have used to illustrate this point, causing confusion on the part of both Phoenix and many members of the audience. Classic Maya. But the confusion is the point, as these different approaches consistently having to work against one another allow for such moments of consternation that lead them to collectively discover things that either one would likely miss had they been working on their own. The lack of epistemological upheaval would likely lead to a lot of jumping to conclusions. "The hammer that strikes too fast has no time to aim." So instead of asking who is right and who is wrong, perhaps we should acknowledge how both characters are needed and that working together is the best way to get to the truth. After all, is that not what Phoenix Wright is really all about?

[@sev1120]

Like if the exchange was over a hammer used to nail the board over the vent cover, and Maya just called it a hammer, but Phoenix said that it could be used to pull out nails, maya might be confused, until elaborating that this particular hammer is a claw hammer and not a typical ball peen hammer or a mallet, meaning that it could have potentially been used in the crime if any wooden construction or crafts got broken recently. And then there's a situation later in the same case where Maya notices something Phoenix didn't by noting the simpler aspects of something, like maybe she notices that because the head only covers the center of the corner on the pathway/road between studio 1 & 2, that someone might have been able to go around it to get to studio 1, thus calling into question any events that happened at studio 2. That's just my own two cents on this

[@Lernos1]

@@sev1120 Asking the real questions here. Why nobody was able to get around Mr. Monkey's head is beyond me. It does prevent cars from going through I guess.

[@rowrow_]

This was funny, awesome and enlightening all in one. Thank you Mornal

[@ihavekalashnikovyoudomath9275]

You fail to take into account the need to specify to have complete knowledge of the situation. It's important to know where under the umbrella the subject is, as it give much more information as to what they are talking about. To not specify would lead someone having an assumed picture of the argument based on their own preconceptions of what the Umbrella term is. To use your Woman Umbrella example. It's not wrong to specify if someone is a trans-woman, as it'll allow the person who called them a woman to know not to mention transphobic jokes or topics. It also reveals that the person has vastly different life experiences than that of a biological woman. Likewise, it's not wrong to specify step-ladder, as it allows the person to know the limits of the step-ladder and how to use it. To simply call a trans woman a woman is not wrong, but to claim it's more right is wrong. It ignores important information about the person and feeds false information as the recipient of the information will fill in the gaps with their own assumptions. Same for calling a step-ladder just a ladder. It misinforms the person into thinking it's their preconceived notion of a ladder.

[@Mornal]

This argument hinges on the hypothetical scenario where the correction is warranted by the surrounding context but that variable is different in this case The context for Phoenix's correction here is just Maya pointing at the ladder and going "ooh cool, a ladder," nothing about the scenario implied the specific type of ladder was important so the only purpose the correction serves is to be patronizing/pedantic

[@ihavekalashnikovyoudomath9275]

@@Mornal The counter case you are making is that the purpose behind Phoenix's comment is to be patronizing, however there's a lack of evidence to confirm that point. Phoenix is a lawyer, a job in which definitions, evidence and context is very important. Phoenix making a clarification about potential evidence in the middle of a crime scene is very important. There's an outline of the body right underneath the step-ladder. In this case, yes the specific kind of ladder is important to know because of it's potential to be evidence. As for cases where the step-ladder isn't important in later games, it's less necessary I will concede that. But to say it's patronizing would imply intentionally belittling, which there is a lack of evidence for. And for Edgeworth vs. Kay, it's very necessary as Edgeworth says "it's the _exact_ same thing," when they very much are not. Clarifying the difference isn't belittling Edgeworth because it's telling Edgeworth different ladders have different uses, and calling one by a different kind of ladder is incorrect. You can't say a rung ladder is the same as a step-ladder, it's not _exactly_ the same as Edgeworth believes

[@lazypaladin]

"You thought I was gonna use Step-Ladders to sell you on Trans-Rights but it's the other way around _most of you Ace Attorney people are some kind of gay already."_ Holy shit this was too funny and too correct! _and damn it suddenly got abit too real, 2001 folks. Ace Attorney prepping the world for Transgender normalisation way back then. Even if it was unintentional._

[@JessieTrinket]

Real talk, I used to think the joke about "All Ace Attorney fans are Queer in some capacity" was nonsense because I was like, "What? That can't be right. I'm CisHet." Guess who realized some things not 2 years later...

[@ailingstar8856]

Things I learned from this video: Bridget is a ladder.

[@ailingstar8856]

@quarlie1086 Wow, you really need to stop judging things based on narrow-minded cultural assumptions. /lh

[@RosiePosie-el3lj]

8:08 This actually broke me, I spent two minutes laughing my ass off

[@DoctorPorkenfries]

I literally had a discussion about ladders vs stepladders at work once. With a coworker who wasnt even aware of the Phoenix Wright games.

[@teamconnor7508]

I thought the joke was about the difference between a father and a step father, since some cultures have different feelings on step parents.

[@slayer_comma_the-91]

“Most of you Ace Attorney people are some kinda gay already!” Insert clip of Dwight turning to camera saying “it’s true”

[@shadowldrago]

I have total respect for your commitment to the bit.

[@cryptoventure2924]

Thanks!

[@bethhawk1399]

I honestly really appreciate this because I've never understood the ladder vs. step-ladder debate. (Especially not the non-sequitur comment at the end.) Thanks for clearing things up! As always, love your animations and your voice acting! ❤

[@leritykay8911]

I like a little reference in Great Ace Attorney to this debate. It's a reference to the very first argument between phoenix and Maya. It goes something like. "Oh, look at this. In Japan we call it a stepladder" ""We call it a stepladder in Britan too, Runo"" "Oh" ""You should make assumtions on other cultures like that""

[@Majo_Ellen]

I don't think this debate will ever end. Nice video btw, really well edited.

[@elijahromo7202]

5:55 Don't call us out like that

[@firewalkwithjuno5421]

I was so unenthused about finding those beautiful artists and their work and then saw you made it easy, thank you ^^

[@enyalim1535]

Im Team Wright on this one chief, like if u replace the trans metaphor with something like, idk a phone, it can be something like Maya: "Oh look, a phone!" Pheonix: "Thats an iphone Maya" Ofc theres the debate of whether it even matters to specifiy the type, which for ladders in crime scenes, yeah it really does. Whether it is feasible for someone to like go up a hole in the middle of the ceiling using the ladder present completely hinges on the fact of whether it is a step or rung ladder. If its a rung ladder and theres no wall nearby to put it up, then the whole argument falls apart. Thats why Pheonix, A LAWYER, would be mindful of words, but bc he didn't think its relevant to this case at hand, he dropped the topic quick. Now i wanna see a AA case where the ladder is a big factor in the case

[@stupiditiusmaximus]

This argument assumes that what we see is a sort of ladder. While a logical assumption, it could be wrong.

[@kenrichgumanid9235]

10:34 Mornal, you're ruining the investigation, GET OUTTA HERE!

[@ASloppyJoe]

Well-edited, overly produced video essay for Ace Attorney in year-of-our-lord 2023? My lucky day!

[@Sacrifical_Pup]

This was a really good vid, def changed my mind and the analogy literally made things click entirely. Also really love how bouncy your character? is can't wait for more vids!!!

[@ras_732]

Side-note on the debate, the animation is so beautifully done! So slick too!

[@skarloeyisyoung]

Also to update the counts for ones Mornal may have missed. Twice in Turnabout Serenade there's ladder dialouge where it seems Apollo wins two more points, once against Trucy alone and a second one with Ema and Trucy losing to him where it seems Ema changes her stance in the 8 year gap between AA1 and AJ, so that's 4 points for Apollo. In The Rite of Turnabout, it seems since seeing eachother again Phoenix and Maya have swapped sides with Phoenix calling it a ladder and Maya calling it step ladder so 2 points for Phoenix. In The Inherited Turnabout there's a discussion between Tyrell Badd and Gregory Edgeworth, where Gregory and Ray are calling it a stepladder so 1 point for Badd. In The Return of the Departed Soul, Ryuunosuke and Iris end up having a discussion about the exact same note as you mention in the endslate with Ryuunosuke pointing out that have different words for ladder and stepladder but still Iris gets the point for being on Team Ladder so maybe 1 point for Iris. Later on in the same case it seems Ryuunosuke has taken Iris' comparison and words to heart and decided to not make an argument with Susato who stubbornly calls it stepladder, but he makes no effort to try and correct Susato so that's either 0.5, 1 or still 0 points for Ryuunosuke depending on how you feel. In Layton VS Wright we see Layton and Maya discussing ladders where they both use the umbrella term when referring to a treehouse so no points can really be given but when regarding later in the game, Phoenix regarding a bell tower when Maya mentions how they could use a ladder he brings up a stepladder so 4 points for Maya. Overall though, Apollo wins given Maya's change in stance.

[@ella_cupcake]

I think about and rewatch this video frequently for reasons I can’t describe. Good job this video is great

[@seandorama5932]

This is a brand of insanity that wraps back around into making sense with the whiplash of me getting hit in the head with a ladder…. *I WANT MORE!*

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

In my opinion, a short folding one is a stepladder. One going straight up is a ladder. That's just common sense. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@bosstowndynamics5488]

The problem with this is that the ladder being depicted is a tall folding ladder, so it doesn't meet either of your categories

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

@@bosstowndynamics5488 _Tall_ folding ones are ladders. _Short_ folding ones are stepladders. That's what we call them at my house anyway. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@bosstowndynamics5488]

@@HazbinCovenWitch That's how I've used the terms as well, but it only really occurred to me watching this video that even tall folding ladders do have what could accurately be called "steps" rather than rungs.

[@HazbinCovenWitch]

@@bosstowndynamics5488 I don't consider those steps. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@staranimalpals1023]

You walk up a step ladder you climb up a ladder

[@staranimalpals1023]

And also if you work in any place with mechcanics or anything specfic you wanna be 100% specific for what you ask for

[@GingerGamerDoofus]

I don't even play Ace Attorney and I have been enlightened

[@runasal]

Thank you for your contribution to this fandom culture

[@Larry_Johnsan]

LOVE HOW THE LADDER WAS REPLACED BY BRIDGET LOL

[@AmberMetallicScorpion]

as a trans woman, i can confirm that the segment about trans people was definitely respectful, and entertaining

[@jaiden1121]

Absolutely EXCELLENT use of your model within everything else in this video

[@AngelCopout]

I'd say... Stepladder. Also this is probably the best fandubbing I've heard... Kinda wish there was a mod with it. Funny enough, I bought the first game in Japanese from my local Hard Off to practice with. Kinda curious if the script is any different as far as ladders go.

[@CrimsoniteSP]

Bruh, just take my sub. You earned it.

[@nkdubuisson]

This video brought tears to my eyes. War is over.

[@QueenDaydream13]

I really like ur animation here, it looks very fun and bouncy

[@transfern7]

I originally thought that the culture related thing somehow had something to do with step-parents lol. but same idea i guess

[@sagedeen4180]

This might be one of my favorite videos on KZbin now

[@ZekeTheThunderWolf]

When I call someone a woman it usually means they "feel" like a woman with their presence, voice, looks, no ambiguity, or they seem androgynous because their features lean towards both sexes physically and it is normally seen in prepubescence and adolescence. When something is considered off for bigger details, like facial hair, softer facial features, clothing choices, and body structure, it naturally clicks in my head what does and does not scream a percieved gender, and I recognize the specificity and act differently purposefully because at that point I would be obligated to treat people with the same respect because we are all human... But my interests have changed because if I plan on being in a relationship or even a friend, how we relate will vary due to commonalities of sexes that simply are common at least from my experiences back in gradeschool where girls stay with girls and guys stay with guys. Men normally do not wear make-up. Men simply do not have periods. Women are generally not as emotionally steadfast or muted as men are. Women do not posess male genitals because the entire body is set up to grow and develop a certain way physically and all of that was decided in the womb where everyone is a woman until genetics say otherwise. Mentality is an entirely different box of crayons that can range from black and white to an entire rainbow. Stereotypes exist for a reason but prejudice assumes this is always the case and should never be taken as 100% fact at every possible application. I say all of this because I feel like the comparison of the identity of an object to a personal identity is too far of a stretch because the implications of technical correctness is different due to a human not being a ladder nor vice versa. A ladder is not a footstool. It can be used as a footstool. A footstool can be used as the first step of a ladder. The difference is now the material, not the purpose. If you compared an object to another object, then the point I made is moot. You compared an object to a person and it all goes out the window because you compared apples to oranges. Both are fruits for some similar traits, but they are barely identical from most specifics of their features and ultimately ignores that the identity of the ladder is not self-made and simply does not have feelings like the person which compassion and such are trademarks of humanity and respect. We can call many things whatever we want. We made them as humans. A step-ladder and a ladder is like salt and sodium-chloride. The salt might have other things like anti-caking agents, but sodium-chloride is the main thing we taste when consuming it. I say this because we are changing superficial aspects without really changing its purpose. People do not serve a purpose exactly. We are self-aware. I do not like the implication of an object being treated like a human being because now it forces pathos for the argument to make sense rather than the logic. The step-ladder is not going to be offended by the specificity. But also, if you can not have a bloodline with a woman because they are transgender, that is also important because that means there is no passing of the torch. Your bloodline ends. Your next of kin will never exist. Basically, the only problem is Phoenix overcorrecting for no good reason. If you say a color is light blue or sky blue, it makes little reasonable difference. if you say something is not just chocolate, but white chocolate, the difference is staggering in some context: Chocolate is toxic to dogs. HOWEVER! White chocolate is not. It's context sensitive whether or not it really matters. If I want someone to bear my child, I must be born a biological male and must be with a biological female. If they are not a tomboy but a transman, but still have the body of a female, then I am gay. Right? Or am I straight and they are gay because they identify as a man liking another man? Is the attraction physical or mental that makes the sexual orientation? Is it both? This is the real question to ask because identifying this leads to understanding of one's personal identity of likes and dislikes. Differentiating a step-ladder from a ladder has nothing to do with its use or relevance to the case phoenix has. If it was a normal ladder and not specifically step ladder would only matter if for some reason they were traded out because an original ladder must lean against a wall. But a step-ladder being changed out and having poor support due to more subtlely modifiable yet crucial support being alterable in order for that difference to mean something is when it matters. So Phoenix is not wrong. He is just correcting Maya because as an attorney, every detail matters. Maya does not understand that and actually puts emotional rammifications to a topic where none would be relevant because the topic is about non-sentient things. Maya is not wrong, just not specific. Phoenix is not wrong, just super specific. Neither are more correct. The language to define them is understood. Coloquially, ladders define all of those objects. Women define all people with AT LEAST majority feminine traits and habits. Identifying is not the same as being because that is ridiculous and I do not think being gay is a choice, because it is not the same as an act of being gay. I will not identify as any sort of woman if I do not posess anything from a physical or mental tendancy going towards the definition of the female sex or gender. ...I do not, however, deny being called sir or madame because as long as I know you are not disrespecting me and you know my name and that I am a human being like everyone else. I may say someone is a man with a deeper voice, but it should not be wrong to respond with the common assumption of being a man specifically if I do not know someone and can only go off of physical features. I never mean disrespect, it is just what is much more common and naturally understood as defining traits matching sexes. Have a beautiful day or night. Be safe. Stay hydrated. Thank you for the video. I liked it.

[@ZekeTheThunderWolf]

I want to say one more thing: There is an entire difference between a Woman and a TransWoman, but it only matters if those differences are relevant. If it has nothing to do with superficial looks or biology(both types of knowledge that have been crucial when Phoenix has solved cases in the past), then it really would be pointless to call a Transwoman beyond just being a woman. Nick has an eye for the details. It is harmless. He does not mean it to harm and anyone denying that fact has learned to be offended over judgments from their own narrow minded cultural assumptions.

[@commondognut]

Wild analogy.

[@abx_yenway]

8:06 Loving the character assassination and Nick getting talked over

[@Sidorio]

I didn't even know spades and shovels were different.