Why Phoenix Wright is at his BEST in Apollo Justice

[@ZenoDLC]

Phoenix is probably casual about getting hit by a car because he's used to crazier stuff, like eating a glass bottle or falling off a freaking burning bridge down to a deadly rapid river in winter

[@agatha6999]

Yeah after falling off a burning bridge in a mountain, I doubt a car crash even bothered him lol

[@tamosift1048]

Think there was also the time with the witch burnings and ink fumes

[@Alfa-707]

Also after falling said bridge which also! Is said the bodies are never recovered because of the river, he doesn't only gets out of it alive but with "just a cold" this dude really is build different...

[@SKsuprakirby]

Man be like:"Wow. i got hit by a car. what an unusually ordinary day? huh?" meanwhile Maya is shocked and about to throw him into the nearest hospital room ASAP.

[@agatha6999]

@@SKsuprakirby Nah Maya is used to this, its Trucy and Apollo whos asking him to please PLEASE go to the hospital

[@mobgabriel1767]

apollo justice is just a tipical AA case...but from the perspective of everyone that isn't phoenix

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I'm sure if we played as any other character in most Ace Attorney cases, they'd be looking at Phoenix and constantly saying "I have no idea what the fuck he's doing"

[@SoraKingdom3]

@@ColeTheFactGuy I mean, that's pretty much the reaction from every characters from both trilogy ^^'. How many times was Maya was "The fuck are you doing, are you sure about this!?" and same with Edgeworth. No jokes, being his client would be both a relief... And a nightmare. Because you know you are in good hands as he is a great lawyer but it's also just impossible to get a read on him.

[@bestboisoupsoup]

That Feenie guy is the personification of both calamity _and_ resolve. Like, sorry chump, get ready to buckle up the moment you cross path with him, cuz you're in an AA case now and you *will* see it through to the end.

[@piyo744]

@@ColeTheFactGuy "i have no idea what the fuck he's doing" "i have no idea what the fuck i'm doing"

[@TheNick540]

"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions."

[@Bysthedragon]

I feel like it's also worth mentioning that Phoenix was careful about how he used forged evidence. Kristoph couldn't call out how he knew this evidence was forged without further incriminating himself. I loved how we see Phoenix grow here from the Hero to the Master. Despite being disbarred he holds a weight in the courtroom as expected of a legend like him. He knows the court, he knows the judge, he knows all of the tricks, and he can play the game like a pro despite not being in the Lawyer role this time!

[@snowboundwhale6860]

In a way it's practically the same "How did you know the [Thinker statue] was a [clock]?"" gotcha from game 1, with both Sawit and April May. Both slipped up accidentally saying more than they're supposed to know which puts them in a bind. In this case Phoenix uses a very deliberate choice of forged evidence that he knows Kristoph would recognise cannot be real, but that nobody else would catch on to. Kristoph ultimately knows better than to bite, but like you said if he did that'd be the very next question; "how do you know the [bloodied card] is [forged evidence]?" and the only way to actually back that up is a confession to his own crime/ knowledge of where/ how the real card was hidden.

[@starwarriorterra8373]

​@@snowboundwhale6860 I would actually compare this more to Recipe for Turnabout and how Phoenix finally broke through against Tigre at the end by lying about the "final piece" of evidence. He used an obvious lie to get the suspect to reveal more than he should've known. Similarly, he used Kristoph's reaction to the forgery to open up a new avenue to the current discussion on the crime, one that proved crucial.

[@herrforesight-Satanisking]

He was lucky Kris didn’t rat on him after confessing though. He could have easily gone “You know I’m the killer, so this is why the evidence is forged.”

[@thundrr1929]

​@herrforesight-Satanisking not like itd matter that much, Phoenux has already been disbarred, and he didnt care enough about Apollo, or so it seems. If this would've happened, it probably would have started a whole chain of events, a cycle.

[@piyo744]

This is actually something that he pulled from Franziska's book, I think. In 2-2, when she presents the picture of Mia being channeled, she _never_ submits it as evidence, as it breaks evidence law. All she does it make sure that His Honor sees it, which is the same exact thing that Phoenix does with the card and Kristoph.

[@mredbadger]

I don’t think you need headcanon to explain Phoenix’s disbarment being unfair. The whole point of the legal system is that it’s biased in the prosecution’s favour. It’s why defense attorneys only get 3 days to build and present their case, and why so many prosecutors like Von Karma and Edgeworth have perfect win records. And ultimately, it’s why Phoenix‘s response to disbarment is a complete rejection of the current system.

[@Sephiroth08150]

It's based on the Japanese legal system first, and over there, they hate criminals with a passion I'll never understand. IIRC, they're the country with the highest guilty verdicts in the world, so unfair is right

[@mredbadger]

@@Sephiroth08150 that’s actually why Apollo Justice and its Jurist system plotline was controversial. It might be why it was dropped from DD

[@Sephiroth08150]

@@mredbadger Huh. My previous comment got shadow deleted. And all I did was put in context why there is a bias in Ace Attorney.

[@weirdyakuzafan]

Technically not even three days, just a single day, and if they survive they get to go for a round 2, and just one more if they survive that too.

[@Xygard]

Yeah the jurist system kinda controversial but at least they ended in crazy note disbandment after the last case if I'm not wrong​@@mredbadger

[@NamelessInternaut]

OH MY GOD, FINALLY HOBO NICK GETTING THE FLOWERS HE'S DUE

[@kariissmol9172]

He embodies the power of DAD. And the Papa hat is just ❤

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

It's funny because I made this video because I didn't see enough defense of his character

[@Vassilinia]

Hobo Nick was actually competent and I hate that they basically retconned him for the new PW games.

[@HolyDemonSnap]

@@ColeTheFactGuy Defense of his character huh? Did you get an attorney badge for this one?

[@lennon-x-almeida9485]

​@@HolyDemonSnapwhat are you even trying to imply

[@MatiNuva1724]

"Why the previous main character is at His best when He went homeless" is another way to read the title

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Correct

[@cosmicspacething3474]

💀

[@robotnick9867]

Snake in MGS2 be like

[@robotnick9867]

Also dante in dmc4 and 5 kinda not really but he has the vibe

[@whyamihere5835]

@@robotnick9867all snake did was die in the tanker incident tf you mean

[@a_naotenhonome780]

23:12 also there's a even flavor text about the steel samurai dvds on the hospital, Apollo asks if its a nephew sending him these and Phoenix says "yes something like that" so its clear that he still in contact with Maya and she also cares for him

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Exactly. I think the fact that they refused to bring back old characters does kind of bite them at times, as after all, me assuming he stayed in contact with his old friends is just headcanon as they aren't actually mentioned. But small snippets like that show that not only does he still have people who care, but also reinforces that he just doesn't talk about his personal life

[@angelreaper1000]

i think its implied somewhere that Edworth hat seend him the dvds

[@AL-lh2ht]

I thought it was the actor himself sending these DVD's

[@a_naotenhonome780]

@AL-lh2ht well i just assumed its Maya because Phoenix says "something like that" in the response of being a nephew, given how Maya acted like a sort of little sister to Phoenix in the triology, i just thought it was fitting

[@theknighter1807]

The narrative of the series heavily relies on Chekhov's gun principle (the principal that any detail in a story should serve a purpose in the overall narrative) that's why anybody not involved with the current events of a game isn't mentioned For example if Edgeworth is mentioned by anyone he will by one way or another be involved in the narrative That's more evident in AA investigation games where phoenix isn't even mentioned Once and only slightly referenced in some very specific flavor text ​@@ColeTheFactGuy

[@BroudbrunMusicMerge]

To elaborate on a point you made -- is Phoenix spending 7 years of his life to take down Kristoph a little insane? Sure. But he's also the man who _changed his career to law just to see Edgeworth again._ Phoenix is _momumentally_ driven over relatively minute things; it's a core component of his character since day one.

[@eta2321]

it’s exactly like what edgeworth said in the first game, if he’s set on something, he will ALWAYS see it through,

[@mredbadger]

It’s also not just about him. Kristoph is just the latest in a line of killers within the legal system, who know how to manipulate the rules to avoid accountability Phoenix is fed up with catching them out on legal loopholes or tricking them into saying the wrong thing long after his own client is obviously innocent and this guy is way more suspicious

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

The man fell off a bridge trying to save someone, ate a glass bottle just to defend his girlfriend, solved cases thst were up in the air for years, and banished multiple ghosts, I don't think spending time taking down the current representation of corruption in the legal system is out of the ordinary for him

[@billie-ve_in_yourself6464]

Kristoph picked literally the worst person to try and screw over. Anyone else would have made a move earlier or given up.

[@kidwaryodproduction]

@@billie-ve_in_yourself6464 Not gonna lie. I still LOL to this day when he rant on Phoenix as "A second-rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs!" 😅

[@SuperStarK1n]

19:22 Fun Fact In Dual Destinies, if you present the Attorney's Badge to Edgeworth during Turnabout For Tomorrow's investigation segment, Edgeworth will apologize for not being able to help Phoenix. But Phoenix told him not to apologize because "he made that decision on his own". So canonically yes, his friends DID know about his situation and tried to help, but obviously, not wanting to get them involved, Phoenix rejected their help.

[@Tasoq]

When I did that, I was expecting something kind of funny/light-hearted like "showing it off again, I see." but instead got hit with something much deeper.

[@segara04]

Yep, understanding that Kristoph was putting everyone involved under surveillance, it was not safe for them to get involved in his mind. He had to see what happened with Maya in PW:JFAs final case, Mia when searching for the truth, and even what happened with Diego in PW:T&T and go "It's not safe to involve them."

[@Tasoq]

@@segara04 Diego wasn't in JFA so I'm confused about who you mean

[@segara04]

@@Tasoq my bad. I get those two flipped all the time. JFA sounds like it should be the finale in my brain. It is fixed.

[@Tasoq]

@@segara04 all good 👍 Now that you mention it, Justice For All does sound like a title for a finale

[@batfreeze56]

Apollo Justice is the game that made me want to become a writer. 10 years later, I'm one semester away from a Creative Writing degree. Thanks, Takumi, for this incredible game.

[@Nihilida]

That‘s wonderful to hear! Best of luck that you can get the degree in flying colors

[@HolyDemonSnap]

Congrats to you mate.

[@Gameboy2007-Official]

The next AA is gonna be crazy

[@spritemon98]

Nice dude

[@nerfwill666]

That’s awesome! I’m also trying to be a writer, and I’m almost done with my first degree. Good luck!

[@izzy1356]

Glad you bring up how he acts in the original trilogy, cause a lot of folks definitely gloss over that... Guy almost never talks about his feelings/issues with others unless it's pried out of him by force, and usually the only one who has the guts to do that (or pisses him off enough to explode) is Edgeworth. Heck the entire Engarde case was the epitome of "Phoenix not telling anyone anything," and he only lucked out because Edgeworth *knows him enough to know he's acting off.* Apollo doesn't have that same connection, so of course he'd seem *more conniving* in his eyes.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

That's what I adore the most about Phoenix in this game. We see other characters get frustrated but we never really click with it completely as we hear every thought Phoenix has, but here, we're on the outside playing as a character who doesn't know anything about Phoenix. Again, dual destinies has Phoenix not plotting anything, just genuinely as Apollos mentor and friend, yet he still feels incredibly closed off

[@gabrote42]

​@@ColeTheFactGuy That also happens in SoJ in the Buff case as well

[@TheGerkuman]

@@ColeTheFactGuy Lets not forget that he's also very snarky in his head in the original trilogy, whereas in AJ he basically verbalises a lot of it.

[@astralguardian5930]

Also I feel like I remember there was even a moment where when someone else had the Magatama that shows the Psyche Locks, Phoenix did actually have some that showed up around that moment. Almost as if to prove his more hidden nature and not opening up to others as easily. (Though I could be horribly wrong)

[@DoYouKnowOyashiro-Sama]

@@astralguardian5930 You might be thinking of a moment from Conflict of Interest (A fan game) because I can't think of anytime someone other than Phoenix held the Magatama in any of the games (Other than Edgey.)

[@nanashialfarr]

Phoenix in apollo justice was using all his knowleadge he learned over the years. - Yanni Yogi's deception and hobo costume - Manfrend von Karma ruthlessness to even use fake evident or manipulate evidence to his own goals, also manipulating apollo. - Damon Gant's friendly aura and manipulative behavior. - Like Miles Edgeworth afther the death of his father, he closed himself to the others, but in his cause its because he dont want others to get in trouble for what he is doing, so if everything fails he will get the blame.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

I think he also took in some of Godot’s demeanor

[@TFGA_tFoMS]

​@@cosmicspacething3474Nah, you don't get Godot's demeanor until the Jazz starts playing for you whenever you are on the screen /s

[@Silent_YES]

@@TFGA_tFoMS don't forget some caffeine overdose

[@tarotsushima3332]

I'm so glad the tides have turned for how people talk about Beanix because he is easily the most interesting way they could have taken a character whose story had already been a done deal by the end of T&T. To the point one of my biggest gripes with DD and SOJ is how they kind of smoothed over a lot of his characterization here and basically made him Trilogy Phoenix but older and a little more experienced once he got his job back. Ironically, Beanix was such a great character to me he even ended up overshadowing Polly way more than he should have by being the focal point of both the tutorial and the last case, considered the best two of the game.

[@gabrote42]

Fair, but he still has a few moments in DD and a way bigger one in SoJ where you can really see Beanix shine (in the Buff case, where he has that side smile pose he always sports as Beanix)

[@JackdotC]

Tbf, that is more to do with poor characterisation of apolo. Poor boy isn't even the main character in his own game

[@JoeLthegamingmage]

I honestly just find DD to be one of the worst sequels in capcom's entire library (Which is saying a lot cause X7, DMC2, and Dino Crisis 3 exist) It's writing completely butchered all the stuff AJ set up including phoenix's new character development.

[@Xbalanque84]

​@@JoeLthegamingmage Enough shade can't be thrown on Dino Crisis 3 in particular. There aren't even dinosaurs in it.

[@In-The-Zone]

Punished Wright is peak and I can't believe that there were people who had such strong issues with it apparently.

[@bruschetta7711]

Considering it could have also improved even better after dealing with Kristoph, but NOOOO we gotta get thr samey old Phoenix, he really stick out and (personally) ruin the other main characters Apollo and Athena, cuz he's The Boss and they are his subordinates, this Phoenix would have allowed them to shine so much more, even if in this game it doesn't really happen, but only because of Kristoph

[@lionofash7700]

My main issue is actually it sorta makes Apollo useless in the final case of his own game. I mean, obviously Apollo isn't actually useless but Phoenix is indeed the puppet master. It sort of detracts from the arc of the newly introduce protagonist.

[@Sephiroth08150]

@@lionofash7700 It really doesn't help that within the scope of *Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney* we really don't learn anything about Apollo's motivations. I did not connect with him on the same level as I did Phoenix, whose first game all but tells you why he became an attorney and why Edgeworth matters to him.

[@mattthegoat606]

​​​@@Sephiroth08150 i mean Apollo motivations kinda change every game he appears in it. I think he is the most retconned charecter in the series

[@Sephiroth08150]

@@mattthegoat606 The backstory he got in Dual Destinies could have worked if the game was more centered about him and actually gave us more time with Clay. As we got it, it's really "My best friend died and I suspect Athena" and from there Phoenix takes over. SoJ's is literal BS.

[@mightaswell]

Phoenix getting the iron man treatment of his peak being his lowest point where hes completely washed

[@SonnyFRST]

9:00 I love how the yaoi joke is dropped while talking about Nick's ex-ex-girlfriend.

[@kariissmol9172]

Oh those two do the deed after every trial RIGHT IN THE COURTHOUSE

[@LunaP1]

That drop got me wheezing.😂😂😂😂😂

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I mean I had to make the yaoi joke at some point. It's an ace attorney video

[@SonnyFRST]

@@kariissmol9172 They're lawyers, the trials themselves are the deed.

[@ayshelee]

its canon so it's very important to mention of course!!!

[@NagaoKenshin]

after being involved with Dahlia Hawthorne, it's really no wonder Phoenix turned out the way he did, and honestly admirable how much trust he still has in people

[@RyunosukeNaruhodo]

"Oh, I assure you. This video is quite based"

[@TechnicallyAstral]

Phoenix Wright, at the core of his character, is a man of rock solid conviction and stubbornness. If he has a goal, he will pursue it to his dying breath regardless of improbability or hardship. He's not a genius, or a tactician: he's bullheaded and will use whatever reasonable methods are available to him in order to accomplish his goals. The man went through law school because of a classroom trial in elementary school. I'll put it this way. Phoenix is an incredible defense attorney because he's able to poke little holes in testimony until he can get an in. Imagine how TERRIFYING he would be as a prosecutor.

[@Sephiroth08150]

@@TechnicallyAstral Funny you say that. I've seen fan videos not too long ago with a mock trial where Edgeworth and Phoenix swapped sides... At the end, Edgeworth was pleading for mercy, Franziska (the defendant) was in tears, and Maya acting as the judge was downright scared of him. Edit: Rewatched it. My bad, Gumshoe was the judge

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@Sephiroth08150 Maya? I don’t remember her being a part of the class trial

[@Sephiroth08150]

@@cosmicspacething3474 I never said it was about the class trial.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@Sephiroth08150 Oh, so it goes BEYOND that…

[@theletterF]

@@Sephiroth08150 what's the video i want to watch this

[@trashraccoon2635]

i think the biggest thing i'm sad about with aj:aa is how the apollo trilogy ends up pivoting back and bringing bright shiny phoenix instead of sticking with the darker beanix. aj:aa, i feel, shows a more grounded world than pw:aa games and that was what drew me to it. and phoenix's downward path was fascinating and i wish we could have seen more of the world if the devs did focus more on apollo. the dark age of the law would have been fascinating to see in the darker, more grounded world aj:aa originally proposed and how phoenix's darker self influence things. also he ends up getting more and more ridiculous backstory but also dodging it every time. on one hand it's funny to see him get hit with all shonen protagonist red flags all over and just saying "nope, regular jegular lawyer guy here". on the other hand, capcom please pick one backstory and stick with it.

[@finalbossd]

I also like the confident and cocky Nick we see in the flashback case of Turnabout Succession. He is very confident and mocking Klavier as he stumbles. Something we never usually see in Phoenix.

[@sunnymoons-moonlitstars]

my thoughts exactly! it's why I can't really enjoy DD or SoJ to its fullest. While I don't hate the games, It's extremely disappointing that they completely reversed his development like it didn't happen. He goes from young, naive and trusting attorney, to a dark, mature, conniving, but still caring man, to... old, naive and trusting attorney. Seeing Phoenix become what his younger self despised was what I absolutely loved about AJ, and they just completely ruined it. I miss Shu Takumi man

[@mredbadger]

Something I like about Apollo Justice is it’s the first time Phoenix has actually expressed interest in law. He became a lawyer to see Edgeworth again, but he owes his successes to being a wild card in a system rigged against him The police co-operate with the prosecutors so he just sneaks around crime scenes while they’re not looking and bribes the detectives His mentor spent ages building a legal case against the man who ruined her family, he rocks up to the guy’s office and antagonises him into taking the stand and digging his own grave. He has no legal standing to accuse his shitty impersonator of murder, so he just makes something up to trick the guy into giving the game away. The chief of police can use legal loopholes to get away with a crime he’s already admitted to, oops no he can’t, Phoenix outplayed him by carefully choosing when he presents the evidence Then in Apollo Justice, he finds himself in another high profile trial with another prodigy prosecutor, does things his usual way, gets in trouble and for the first time in his life, he’s like “this system is bullshit” 7 years on, he’s watching from the sidelines with a smug look on his face as Apollo tries to defend a client who physically couldn’t have fired the murder weapon a full day after a guy with an injured arm was identified on the scene

[@gabrote42]

I think they preserved some of his more grounded and reserved traits in those games. I mean, just look at the Buff case.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

Yeah as much as I liked DD, I feel like returning to normal Phoenix should’ve been an arc that lasted the whole story. Then at the final trial Phoenix decides to don his iconic suit, and it would’ve been a hundred more times the hype than him putting it on at the very beginning.

[@wardrobewings8000]

Nah, Phoenix spending 7 years working towards dragging Kristoph through the justice system isn't crazy. This man went full on Elle Woods just to reach out to a man who used to be his classmate in elementary school. If anything, Nick doing anything else would be out of character for him.

[@Hyper_Drud]

And you know, maybe part of the reason he’s so closed off and his friends don’t know much about him is because of his childhood. You get wrongfully accused of a crime you didn’t commit and made to fess up to it you’d probably be wary of other people too.

[@AstroGay]

10:36 “How could Phoenix Wright of all characters come up with a plan as complicated and insane…” Oh ok yea, that’s all you had to say he is ABSOLUTELY in character here

[@raulthetorchic7324]

The disbarment DOES make sense. 3-2, we learn that a Not Guilty veredict is absolute. If one is innocented, they can no longer be accused again of that same crime. Meanwhile, as evidenced in 3-3, retrials DO exist, which makes it so a Guilty veredict CAN be overturned. So a defense attorney forging evidence is a FAR bigger deal than a prosecutor doing it, thus explaining why prosecutors get lesser punishments.

[@kluck345]

I don’t remember the retrial, perhaps you could remind me? Buuuut a real life example of Double Jeopardy takes place regardless of Acquittal or conviction.

[@systemeth]

@@kluck345 The Maggey Byrde case in the third game is a retrial. She was originally found Guilty.

[@lpfan4491]

Ah yes, the legendary moment of Godot just screwing up by adding on all the charges at once.

[@azurestar-ch1]

​@@systemethright, I remember that, also, wasn't Mask✯Demasque technically a retrial? Since Ron was first accused of being Mask, just for him ending up judged for murder, to finally seal the deal declaring him Mask✯Demasque and not doing yet another trial since that was the second?

[@not_juano]

​@@azurestar-ch1 I can't remember exactly, but I think he had two trials, one for the theft charges and then another one when they found a body the day after and evidence that linked him to it, so not a retrial

[@blastthechaos6083]

I'm glad you pointed out him being closed off and never sharing anything was always a thing with him since the start, so many people forget that and try to paint him as an open guy with his feelings (especially in Wrightworth fanworks).

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Like as much as I love how gay Phoenix and Edgeworth are, I think legitimately, with how Phoenix is, he wouldn't be able to hold together a stable relationship. He could be a parent, but as a partner I think it'd be infuriating to watch

[@thatgayliengremlinp4766]

I respect the want to have fluffy feel good fanworks (though its not exactly my cup of tea) so I get why people go in that direction... But we get faced with the problem of "he would not f*cking say that" that makes the works feel OOC a lot ofthe time. Not too bad if that's what you're looking for I guess, but it can get a bit frustrating? Like maybe years of therapy down the line he could start to open up, but you'd probably have to drag him there kicking and screaming haha I'd also argue that as a parent, Phoenix's behavior seems less of a big deal, and Trucy is already pretty different from the average child through her experiences, but I'm also not sure theirs is a normal & healthy parent-child relationship, especially with Phoenix being so emotionally closed off! I find this dynamic very interesting to explore, but I've rarely seen people touch on it

[@diarawisteria2218]

​@@thatgayliengremlinp4766 He definitely has the benefit of being compared with and contrasted against the dude who literally used his own daughter to abandon her. While it's clear that Zak/Shadi DID love Trucy, he's far from the father she needed. Phoenix isn't great father material (even ignoring SoJ), but when your competition is that...

[@Nassifeh]

@@ColeTheFactGuy This is one reason I actually like the way Phoenix kind of adopts these kids--not just Trucy but all three of them. In isolation, I don't think he's actually initially set up to be a great partner. But he's not, by the end of all this, one guy anymore, and they have people around them who are capable of helping them through this kind of stuff. The older I get--look, I"m over 40 now--the more I do hate the idea of just saying that some people are doomed to be alone. The thing I wound up liking about Apollo Justice and Dual Destinies--and maybe part of why I don't really care for the way SoJ takes it--is that a lot of people NEED a community of friends and family to be semi-stable and functional and capable of happiness? But that's a totally achievable thing.

[@largeladygaming]

People seem to forget how much of the original trilogy contains that funny blue text that signifies an inner monologue

[@ryanp7546]

With Mia and Maya somehow able to read them

[@justinportillo3996]

⁠​⁠@@ryanp7546yeah I always wondered if I missed something and told us that they’re able to read his mind earlier in the story or if the writers accidentally put some of the dialogue as inner monologues instead.

[@bloodrushblush]

9:50 Another aspect that I think is vital to note about Beanix's character, is the fact that him being disbarred and adopting Trucy are intrinsically linked. Not just in the fact that, tangibly, the inciting incident leads to Trucy being an orphan in need of a guardian...But also in that it provides Phoenix with a distraction which aligns with his savior complex. Trucy seems to be the only reason he doesn't completely shut down after losing his badge. He even says as much, "Thinking back on it, it was a pretty dark time in my life. But Trucy...happy, smiling Trucy...She was my light." A statement that ironically becomes ever more heartwrenching when you remember that, albeit unknowingly, Trucy is the one who delivers the forged evidence to Phoenix. Doing his job as a defense attorney provided him with purpose. He never had to do much introspection, always preoccupied with other people's wellbeing. Trucy fills the void left behind by his disbarment. Incidentally, the self serving nature of Phoenix's pursuits become more blatant in the ways that he neglects Trucy; the "Papa" hat is a perfect analogy for how becoming a parent, for him, is a lot about the title it grants him. The identity it allows him to outwardly present. This isn't to say he is a bad father, the love is abundantly clear, but...I think it's a wonderful portrayal of the complexity within parental relationships. How so many parents are well-intentioned, but poorly equipped to be the figure they need to be for their children. (Also, it's a brilliant foil to Edgeworth's arc, who especially highlighted in the AAI games, analyzes his own emotional turmoil in a very overt and intentional manner. Forming parental bonds and actively deciding that he does not want to perpetuate the cycle of abuse he was adopted into.)

[@Sagaci]

What's actually kind of interesting is that despite what everyone thinks, technically speaking, the fifth ace isn't actually forged evidence. Go through the dialogue. Not once did Phoenix or Apollo claim that the fifth ace was infact THE missing ace. All that was asked what essentially "what reason would someone take a card from the crime scene?" And the answer? "what if a drop of blood got on one of the cards?" It was a prop. A glorified diorama. A physical representation of an explanation, because evidence is everything in court. Realistically Phoenix could have chosen any card to use and it would have the same effect without any of the legal ambiguity. But he specifically chooses the ace because, as you said, he's trying to get Kristoph to slip up and admit his involvement. It was Kristoph that jumped to conclusions and assumed Phoenix was trying to pass it off as legitimate. I guarantee you that if he tried to call Phoenix out on it, he would have said as much. After all, that's awfully similar to how Kristoph's letter in Turnabout Succession plays out: Phoenix makes a replica of the letter, not intending for it to be seen as the real deal, but just to be a physical representation of explaining a motive.

[@ijust...lovethispic...]

Not only that, he straight up even says it's HIS card

[@shyscorpio2003]

Maybe it was just me but I was very invested in most of the cases in Apollo Justice. What makes Apollo Justice my favorite game in the series is really Apollo himself, yes he's a fresh lawyer but he's not as naive as Phoenix was or at the very least a lot more snappy with witnesses.

[@gabrote42]

He grows into a VERY professional lawyer by DD too

[@mredbadger]

I actually think it’s the total opposite. I love Apollo in AJ because he has this naive wide-eyed optimism about being a defence lawyer just like his idol, and he ends up defending some of the most morally grey characters in the series, and admits by the end that he really didn’t know anything when he started and still doesn’t know what to make of it

[@tlotro625]

I like that too. In his second case Phoenix just goes and straight up presents the evidence to the last person he should be presenting anything. And Apollo goes "I don't think we should present this to him" sometimes.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Nah yeah, been binging all main games on a replay this year, and AA4 got the most consistent enjoyment of the cases for me. Like every other game has one case where I'm like "yeah least favorite one in the game" or just wanna get through for the sake of it, but I never experienced even a slight dip in enjoyment throughout AJ.

[@McKarter]

Great work on this video! I would like to point out/add a few things: 1. Apollo isn't a "younger" Phoenix. As you've mentioned, Justice is more aggressive. He is also a lot more orderly and would rather his arguments be organized and logical, rather than the Unpredictable Bluff Machine Phoenix is. Phoenix thinks too little about the consequences of his actions; Apollo thinks too much about them. His main driving force early on (except arguably case 1) wasnt belief in his clients but rather justice. This is why his dynamic when working with Trucy works so well, and why trials with him feel a bit different than Phoenix's does in later games when they're both playable. 2. He has been secretive before, but it's a bit more prominent in Apollo Justice not just bcs we're viewing him from outside POV; It's also because his entire disbarment was such a dark time of his life. He has just been praised by Mia in T&T. But soon after, he messes up by trusting a bit too much on someone he didn't know. And then in comes Apollo Justice, who idolizes and adores him. He probably feels he doesnt deserve that, and would rather develop his relationship with Justice from scratch. 3. Kristoph unknowingly dug his own grave the moment he came after Phoenix: a.) "Being there" for him during his the time everyone is on him during disbarment? That's Miles Edgeworth during the Class Trial but defiled b.) Poison to kill the one man who can link Kristoph to the murders? Oh hell yeah, why not add Dahlia Hawthorne to the mix c.) Using Trucy, a helpless little girl, to give him the forged evidence; Some memories of Pearl and her childhood resurfacing d.) All of the above, executed in such meticulous manner as to create the "perfect" cover and get away with it? Add von Karma to the perfect mixture Doing everything Phoenix hated is probably what made Nick snap and decide that Kristoph Gavin must burn. Having him be put away by the young new Apollo and Klavier, both used to look up to him, is just more fuel to the fire. Kristoph thought that this was Nick's idea of revenge, and he was right; he just didnt realize as to what extent.

[@LetTalesBeTold]

Yes, Apollo was very much truth/justice minded rather than a believer in his clients. I talked a bit on the same thing elsewhere, but Apollo seems to come off as more detached than Phoenix- which (aside from the fact that Phoenix is a codependent personality anyway) considering what they did with Apollo’s backstory in Spirit of Justice, it makes good sense that he would have some trust issues with people. I initially didn’t like his actions in Dual Destinies because I felt like they were out of character, but when you plug in SoJ, it makes a sensible growth arc- Apollo gets by without having to trust much in AJ, digs deeper into his distrust out of pain in DD, to almost fatal consequences, and finally realizes there are people worth trusting in SoJ.

[@lokouba]

If Apollo or any other lawyer had the magatama they would also 100% trust their clients. If Phoenix didn’t have the magatama he wouldn’t trust so easily.

[@McKarter]

@@lokouba maybe not AS strongly as he does, but we have to remember, that his trust in clients started with Edgeworth, and was reignited with Mia Fey. He had that foundation from the beginning and went through the entire first game without it, including Rise from the Ashes. It was important for sure, but Phoenix still would trust his clients very highly regardless. as for the other lawyers, i agree. their jobs would be a lot easier too lmao

[@La_cabine_de_Cabine]

Phoenix Wright is one of the craziest Main Characters you could play as, because he is extremely interesting but you never realize as you play as him. Usually MCs are empty canvases for players, and that's how you miss Pheonix' depth in the first trilogy It definitely felt frustrating in the first game even if I didn't realize it, but it was way worse in AA4, but that's also genius and I came to love this (Though the overall vibes of AA4 are not my favorite still)

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Unironically disliking AA4 because you feel the vibes are off is way more valid to me than a lot of the other criticisms I've seen for it the past few years

[@SoraRaida]

I was there when Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney first came out. So many people hated this game. They complained about the new protag Apollo, they complained about the bad character handling of Phoenix, they complained about the writing of the cases. To see so many here appreciate and love AJ:AA as I do is truly a sight to behold.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I'm personally kinda glad that I didn't get in on the series until last year. While this game is still polarizing, it's nowhere near as hated as it used to be, so more in depth conversations are welcomed

[@coffeelordran3139]

never agreed more with a yt video title in my life

[@LunaP1]

Same

[@JosephSciola]

I have a headcanon that since we learned Klavier attended Themis Legal Academy in Dual Destinies, it's likely that Kristophe did, too, and as a defense attorney, he would have studied under Professor Means directly, which is why Kristophe went to the forged evidence plan in the first place. By any means necessary, indeed. I also have a headcanon that the MASON System was based on Kay's Little Thief since they're both recreations used to obtain information on past scenes. Edgeworth probably got her some major funding as he climbed the ladder to his chief prosecutor position. I really want a MASON System game where you solve cold cases.

[@bellyjelly0812]

Omg that makes a lot of sense

[@Ixs4i]

fuck it this is real now

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Oh my, rare headcanon that's not mine that I wish was real anyway

[@ShadowOfCicero]

The more I think about it, what I most disliked about AJ:AA was that Apollo did not get a single CLEAN win. Forged evidence, tricked a confession, tricked a confession, had the whole trial effectively rigged by Nick. Phoenix got his first set-piece case in the very first game. Arguably Apollo didn't get his until Spirit of Justice.

[@digiornopizza3469]

Case 3 was a pretty clean victory. Despite how rigged the trial was against him he managed to use all the evidence to flip the case around. He may not have used definitive evidence to catch the culprit but the way he did it was still pretty valid. Nick arguably got carried harder throughout every case in AA1 than Apollo did through his first game (aside from 1-5)

[@水月りうむ]

I always thought it was weird that AA5 tried to pull the whole "dark age of the law" nonsense right after when 4 already did it way better without having characters shoving it in your face constantly.

[@StarLightShadows]

@@水月りうむ That's blatantly not true. AA4's "Dark Age of the Law" is a fundemental mess that relies on destroying the entire fundemental premise of the series for no good reason and acting like a chapter with more plot holes in it than a wasp's nest is somehow the in-universe Justice System's fault. At least Dual Destinies had the foresight to do shit with it that mattered without basically saying "This series I'm apart of? It's shit, actually!"

[@maxpower004]

Dual Destinies Dark Age of the law is the most messy plotline AA has ever had and one that doesn't work from start to finish

[@ShadowOfCicero]

​@@水月りうむIf you wanted to do dark age of the law, you had to fully commit to it. That probably would have meant discarding Athena and Simon entirely. It's just an annoying rhetorical device otherwise.

[@GT3NB]

I understand people saying having Wright there took away from Apollo, but I feel like if they did more to flesh out Apollo and make him his own character more in his first game, it wouldn’t come up at all. For me, Wright being there is just so cool. It expands the world but still maintains its core. I hope if they ever do new protagonists again, Wright and company are still there, they’re just not the main characters anymore.

[@bruschetta7711]

Having Boenix doesn't mean he's gone as a character, just that he's less on the spotlight

[@SoraRaida]

Trust me, I was there. When Apollo Justice first came out, a looooooot of people were pissed why AJ was the main character, and Phoenix was sidelined. Your suggestion would just be even worse in their eyes.

[@piyo744]

18:14 Bear with me: Kristoph is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. I think this is actually a common-but understandable-misunderstanding. I don't think Kristoph's issue is that a case that could make him famous was stolen from him. If the (bare minimum) of the outfit we see in the Klavier flashback as well as the sum he payed Drew are anything to go by, he's _already_ rich and probably pretty famous. He could've easily gotten the name "Coolest Defense in the West" from those 7 years between Phoenix's disbarment and his downfall, but if he's already that rich (to not only pay Drew for the forged diary page, but also get his hands on fancy nail polish _and_ a rare poison), then it would not surprise me at all if he's already got quite a few high-profile cases under his belt. What is _far_ more important for Kristoph's motivation isn't that it was his case. He's probably had a few cases slip through his fingers. This is something I've talked about before on other websites: Kristoph is a petty malignant narcissist who is _obsessed_ with Phoenix in particular. Why? Because he sees Phoenix as somebody who gets lucky. To him, Phoenix is not somebody who deserves to call himself a lawyer, let alone have a near-flawless record and hold influence over _his_ court system! This is the entire reason why he killed Zak Gramarye in the first place; it's never spelled out due to the Black Psyche-Locks, but given what he says and how Apollo (probably) breaks them by telling him Phoenix set everything up, it's not hard to put together. "I couldn't believe it. Phoenix Wright...? A second rate attorney who relies on luck and bluffs! He dismissed me... and went with that pitiful excuse for a man? ...He deserved to die for that error alone." You pointed out how Phoenix is inherently an outlier in the system and I think this is _precisely_ why Kristoph despises him. Y'know his rant right before his final breakdown? "Common citizens? Wisdom? Is this some kind of a joke? What could we possibly gain by doing this? Entrusting our judicial system to a mindless, emotional mob of irrational mouth-breathers? [...] Nonsense! There is only room for two in this court: Me, and the law! Keep the riff-raff out! Out, I say!" Phoenix _is_ one of those "mindless, emotional, irrational mouth-breathers". Not only is he one of those, he's a mindless emotional irrational mouth-breather who has taken on more prestigious cases than-and probably become more _popular_ than-him. These are cases that _he_ should've been taking, since he's the prime example of upholding the best of the law in his eyes. He is legitimate. Phoenix is not. Somebody could've taken the Gramarye case and as long as it was _literally anybody who wasn't Phoenix Wright_ I think he would've been able to take the L. Everything Kristoph does doesn't spout from just pettiness (although that's a major factor): it instead mostly spouts from a twisted narcissistic worldview, of which Phoenix is the _pure antithesis of._ This is also why Kristoph is the perfect dark mirror of Phoenix. TL;DR: Toxic old man yaoi and/or "it's like poetry they rhyme"

[@LetTalesBeTold]

Thissss. Kristoph is one of my favorite villains in media. Yeah, he’s petty, but it’s a pettiness that comes from a deeper complex. He trusts his technique and his understanding of reality so much that when things like being excluded from the defense attorney seat by losing a poker game of all things, and a wild card like Phoenix Wright being the one who is called forward and succeeds, happens, it shakes the entire platform on which he builds his superiority. I don’t think he does what he does to get fame- I think he does it because he already has it. He has a community of people agreeing how smart and capable he is, and he’s clearly meant to be represented as the straight-laced studious type (contrasted by his brother, breaking the mold but enough of a genius to compensate.) So some “mouth-breather” doing as well or better than Kristoph, achieving a position he was excluded from on a basis of “luck,” undermines the hard work he puts in (which doesn’t have to be legal work, just successful work) to excel. It threatens his singular means of being “better than everyone.” If intelligence isn’t everything- if fate sometimes just decides who wins and who loses against the odds- then that makes Kristoph as common as anyone else, but with probably three times the effort put in to keep up appearances and succeed.

[@piyo744]

@@LetTalesBeTold Ooh, I absolutely love that last analysis that if intelligence doesn't mean anything then Kristoph is no better than anybody else! It's rather ironic for him, given that the WAA as a whole are all _very_ smart, but I think that's a perfect way to analyze his worldview. Maybe _that's_ why he took on Apollo: he noticed how smart and dedicated he really was. "I don't think he does what he does to get fame- I think he does it because he already has it" is also something I actually haven't thought about yet that makes a lot of sense! It kind of hearkens back to Manfred von Karma for me, honestly. A perfect win-rate is important for your own self-esteem, sure, but what about the esteem of the entire justice system? People that are your _peers?_ Manfred wanted to be viewed as perfect in their eyes, not just his own. Kristoph could very easily be the same, but for his competency rather than his perfection...

[@LetTalesBeTold]

@@piyo744 thanks! And an excellent point you made on the Von Karma/Gavin comparison… Kristoph basically is the second trilogy’s von Karma; big bad of the first game, mentor to a major character, and of course egomaniacal lol. (And yeah, that’s the great thing with WAA: they’re goofy, but they’re also all incredibly smart. Picking up Apollo as a protege was probably an ego-stroking, status kind of thing for Kristoph (possibly doing a subtler form of making a mini-me out of Apollo as von Karma did with Fran and Miles); but then there’s Phoenix, who not only is this personification of luck, but also is clever (and perhaps spiteful) enough to use Kristoph’s own “asset” against him by picking Apollo as his attorney, as well as pushing Apollo to take the Misham case and therefore using him against Kristoph a second time. So even though Kris is going to accuse Nick of being stupid and winning by luck, he’s probably fully aware that Nick is also so freaking smart and better than him in many ways, hence why he is so bitter towards him. Man, I could ramble about these characters endlessly. 😂

[@lokouba]

I don’t think your headcanon works. He killed Gramarye SEVEN years after that case hapened. Gavin already considered at that point the best lawyer in town and everyone already forgot about that case. My interpretation was that the fact Kristoph was able to recognize Zak and the fact that he saw him trying to meet up with Phoenix made him suspect Phoenix or Zak was plotting something against Kristoph and thus he killed Zak in order to stop what either of them were planning. I believe Kristoph “slip up” on his call with Phoenix was actually a hot blooded impulsive attempt of threatening Phoenix in a subtle way that ended up backfiring cause he didn’t think Phoenix would record that call for some reason.

[@piyo744]

@lokouba Kristoph himself is unsure why he killed Zak until he learns that Phoenix set up the Jurist System. This is proven by the black psyche-locks that appear when Phoenix asks him "why did you kill Zak Gramarye": it was a crime of impulsive passion. The motive is "because he knew you were better than me", but Kristoph can't parse that because he's unable to even consider the idea of Phoenix being better than him. Ergo, Kristoph kills Zak for on a whim for a reason he's unsure of and internalizes it as killing him because he is an evil person. I think there's enough room to argue that he didn't even realize it was Zak until 4-4-but his brain did, to quote Uncle Dane. The reason it took him seven whole years is because Zak vanished during his own trial. _Nobody_ knew where he was: why would Kristoph? Remember, after he forged the page (and more critically gave it to Phoenix) he still tried to murder the Mishams-because, by Drew showing up at the trial, one of them knew that Phoenix was better than him. He _rationalizes_ it by "covering up his tracks", but this is the rationalization of a mad narcissist who cannot possibly fathom his actual motive-which, again, is proven by the black psyche-locks. The black psyche-locks can't be because the page was forged, either. In 4-1, Kristoph directly asks Phoenix if his arrest is revenge for "the events that took away [his] attorney's badge seven years ago". I think the "bone china pate" slip-up is just like the "blue flame" slip-up: he's trying to appear poetic and cool because he's a narcissist who only cares about his image and the power he holds over other people. He says it not expecting Phoenix to catch it because, in his mind, Phoenix is a bumbling ass who is too stupid to pick up clues right in front of him.

[@gabrote42]

7:17 This is something they really point out in Spirit of Justice too. He keeps his mentorship skills in those 2 games, but you really see how closed off he can be. Especially on the Buff case.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Only reason I didn't mention anything SoJ related is that I haven't played that one yet. At the end of Dual Destinis currently and I'm looking forward to it! I think despite how the course correction put me off a bit they still nailed Phoenix and especially Apollo, he's without a doubt my favorite attorney in the series, especially when paired with Athena.

[@gabrote42]

@ColeTheFactGuy That's why I didn't justify my analysis in any way, and just referred to the case by a name. Wish you good playing, and hoping you make a follow-up post once you play that one

[@bellyjelly0812]

Shame that beanix didn’t get a chance to slowly blend into the Phoenix we get in DD and SoJ, it was a very hard pivot into mia fey in a different font when there was a lot of room for him to slowly learn to trust others, and for him and Apollo to have differences in opinion about whether it’s okay to use underhanded tricks in court for the sake of the truth

[@tia7737]

I think it would’ve been really cool if we got an almost Yatagarasu-esque reveal of Phoenix working with Edgeworth and Franziska behind the scenes to create the jurist system. My main issue with that plot was Phoenix being the blatant face of the project, which even with Kristoph’s arrest and Phoenix’s connections felt like a bit of a stretch - whereas if he’d had his seasoned, well connected and still well respected prosecutor friends serving as the face while he worked behind the scenes to orchestrate everything would’ve made it a bit more believable. It also would’ve allowed us to have some cameos/hinted cameos that wouldn’t feel jarring or out of place. There’s also a line in DD I believe (or SOJ) where Phoenix apologizes to Edgeworth for all the stress he put him through. Phoenix being stubborn about how he wanted to return to law, not just taking a “handout” from a friend but fighting to fix the system versus just rejoining it, makes that conversation even more meaningful and fitting. Great theory on your part and great video!!

[@JS1asf]

GOD, THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO. I THOUGHT ALL OF THIS FOR A WHILE, AND I FEEL SO VALIDATED RIGHT NOW

[@redhoodlovesbread]

Finally, someone put my scrambled thoughts about this game, and especially the characterisation of Phoenix here, that I had for nearly 7+ years, put them into coherent words, and even elaborated further I feel extremely validated seeing this video, thank you so much

[@aivalera]

It’s always fun to look at Phoenix from outside of his head. Like, this guy’s clearly insane to anyone who doesn’t know him. Like, his expressions in court are funny, but can you imagine the other side? Him looking like a complete fool and sweating up a storm only to bring out a parrot and a metal detector a moment later? I like to imagine that he’s not considered a master bluffer because he’s coming up with stuff on the spot until he finds the answer, but because he’s so animated in court that nobody could get a decent read on the guy. He’s the guy who, at his peak and on an undefeated 8 case streak, announced, ‘Yeah my client’s guilty send his ass to jail!’ right when his client was about to be found innocent. He’s an absolute loon.

[@landonbeaird3660]

Hey, great video! As someone who still isn't a big fan of Beanix, I think you made some really good points. Apollo is still a necessary and important character, and Phoenix does rely on him. I'd still argue that Phoenix should've taken more of a back seat in Succession to give Apollo more time to shine and let him have his big moment, y'now. And what I liked Phoenix for most was his personality. He was a relatable, dorky everyman who felt like he was making everything up as he went along. Beanix is calm, cool and collected, and presents himself as if he's already won and is 10 steps ahead of everyone else. Just feels at odds with what I always enjoyed about Phoenix. But I can understand why others like him and think that's a cool evolution for his character.

[@EmileeAria413]

I mean, I feel like we only see Phoenix as a dorky everyman is because we read his mind as he is the POV character. I’m sure this is basically how people have *always* seen Phoenix. He’s a master bluffer, always has been. He pretends he has everything figured out while in his mind scrambling to figure out the truth. As we see during the MASON system investigation, Phoenix is just as much an everyman during those seven years of investigating Kristoph.

[@azurequill3851]

@@EmileeAria413yep, it’s just that this time, Phoenix has had 7 years to gather evidence and prepare this masterpiece instead of a day lol. Usually he’s getting a client, having to get as much evidence as possible however possible in a day, going to trial, and having to get more evidence to lengthen the trial to find the true culprit. He bluffs to high heaven, but he also sees very thin lines of truth that lead him to the web his enemy has constructed. This usually leads to him concocting a plan that perfectly ensnares his enemy. This is usually in the total of 3 days. Him having 7 years to catch Kristof was overkill in my opinion, because he’s had all that time to accumulate so much evidence and ideas of how he did his crimes, Phoenix probably had 50 simulations in his head about how to completely destroy Kristof and what he represents

[@bruschetta7711]

The most criminal thing is how little they brought back Klavier in the consecutive games, all i hope is that they are cooking hard with him and that he's getting his own investigation game Franziska too

[@mredbadger]

Klavier has so much story potential. The Klavier we meet in Apollo Justice feels like a character at the end of his story, 7 years after he played a role in Phoenix’ disbarment, after he seemed to have made peace with the kind of man his brother is, and after he learned all the lessons Edgeworth did in JFA. Seeing how he got to that point would make for a great story

[@lpfan4491]

If they didn't softreboot the series with DD, it would have gone pretty hard to get an investigations 3 starring Klavier.

[@mylingprototype]

I agree about Klavier. However, Franziska is a character that needs to be used sparingly. Her overtly competitive nature, and lack of a deeper relationship with anyone of Wright and Co. makes her a very difficult character to work with. Her interactions with the defense, while entertaining, can quickly end up feeling shallow and repetitive (I believe this to be a major reason why she fails to impress in JFA). She has fantastic chemistry with Edgeworth and even Gumshoe, however this wouldn't mean much in a mainline game, where we'd play from an attorney's POV. Maybe if Capcom ever decides to bless us with AAI3...

[@alljustforamoment]

I agree with literally everything in this video lmao, you did an amazing job! This is exactly why I love Apollo Justice and hobo Nick™️ so much. I also feel like it’s worth mentioning we already saw his character change drastically during the trilogy, what with Feenie and all, but people often act like the first time we ever see him change is in AJ. Anyway I just love the evolution of his character so much

[@lovethatdarkness]

"What happened to our boy?" He became Daddy- I mean. *cough* ahem. What?

[@itsjustaclint8404]

i replayed apollo justice just for this and god i can't unsee it. you adsolute man.

[@renbirbattorney8105]

Excellent analysis! I hope the algorithm pushes this to more ace attorney fans.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Funnily enough I think it did. Video had 90 views after 24 hours, but then 6 hours later got 2k out of nowhere

[@megagames4989]

now it has 200k views

[@Cesiles]

Another one! You like great games. Love the takes and headcanons! Quality vid, not everything needs to be a two hour essay. But definitely wanna hear more.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Thank you! I don't have the attention span to make massive essays, hell I never expected to be making videos that are over 20 minutes long. It's just I go until I'm satisfied and don't have much left to say on a topic, whether that's 6 minutes or 30

[@iamtwoawesomes]

exactly 12 minutes in to this video i was motivated to put the video down and replay AA (It has been over a decade and I only remember the first game and the first half of the first Apollo game clearly)

[@dm.3145]

same

[@lordknightalex]

all the seemingly odd pieces of phoenix's characterization have been there throughout phoenix's trilogy and i love how aa4 utilizes it, its a really great way of exploring who phoenix wright is as a person beyond just "the ace attorney (/turnabout terror)" hes a master bluffer? of course he does well in poker. he's (at times needlessly) secretive about his life? of course it's frustrating to deal with that while talking to him. he instantly welcomed maya and pearl into his life after mia's death? of course he'd adopt a kid who seems to have no one else left it's also very in-character that he started working on the whole jury system thing. he's the guy who took down powerful people like redd white, von karma, and gant bc he's that committed to the truth! and when kristoph fully took away phoenix's main way of making that happen, that was kind of the last straw that made him take steps to change the whole system that keeps letting ppl get away with that shit time and time again i love this game a lot

[@MightyMurloc]

"Losing all hope" as an anime character means ditching your 4-hour morning hairstyling routine and just wearing a hat everywhere.

[@ultimateqmazing2537]

Funfact: it actually WAS Edgeworth who was responsible for phoenix getting his badge back. He needed help cleaning up the system and pulled some strings to make it possible. He still had to take the bar again but yeah.

[@fluidwolf]

Still just love the level of abuse the guy is just able to casually walk off.

[@Necroxion]

I personally think that this Phoenix has one massive difference from the Phoenix in the original trilogy The O.G. Phoenix is often roped into the trial at the very last minute and has to make a plan, improvise, and unexpectedly do the entire legal system's job by himself This Phoenix actually has prep time for once EDIT: Oh, and this time his friends just...left him behind to rot. One of my favorite fanfics was where the gang found out he was disbarred, and so they gathered from the literal other sides of the earth just to legally destroy Kristoph, but then this is probably the entire thing that would have prevented Phoenix from distrusting others

[@Varagon7403]

19:18 I also think Edgeworth would have known about the plan since in one of the games it mentions that they would visit the bar that Trucy preforms to hang out and i also think the judge goes too. So it makes sense he wouldn't accept help from others and this was personal for him it would make sense that Edgeworth would be in the loop and let phoenix do his plan. That just my theory

[@ForetellerBryn]

1) "You have to be communicative with your boyfriend" WE LOVE TO SEE A WRIGHTWORTH TRUTHER 2) my initial playthrough of AJ:AA was very sour considering how much I adore Phoenix, but with the retrospect in my second playthrough I realized just how brilliant the writing was in this game. I'm just awful at vocalizing any of those thoughts, and you've nailed all of it perfectly.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Hey I mean, the only reason I started this channel is because my partner and friends are sick of me vocalizing my thoughts all the time

[@ForetellerBryn]

@ColeTheFactGuy and how lucky we are for it!!!

[@darrencrissistotallyawesom918]

Thank you for articulating all of my thoughts so perfectly! This is a fantastic analysis and I agree with everything 100 %

[@BSCTDrayden]

great video!! love to see someone understand Phoenix's characterisation after many years of seeing the fandom misrepresent his AJ personality

[@Floofiekun]

Phoenix comes off as someone who feels exhausted and disappointed with how the law is. At this point he feels like he just wants to live a quiet life, but there's still a part of him that obviously cares. Much like his namesake, he'd eventually rise from the ashes of his old life and be born anew when we see him come back into the fray.

[@fennivii]

AJ has always been my favorite, and you've just worded why it's great better than I ever could. Good shit man

[@AegixDrakan]

Y'ain't wrong. I was shocked and bamboozled too for the first couple cases, but when we briefly get back into Phoenix's head in the last case, I immediately thought "Oh, there he is. There's the Phoenix I remember!" I do wish a bit more of Grizzled Phoenix shone through in Dual Destinies, though. (And, really, I SHOULD get around to picking up Spirit of Justice). And! Finally, I'm glad we actually DID get a proper look at a jury system through The Great Ace Attorney games. :P

[@biomseed]

You can see how he's the same little guy inside but appears so mysterious to others

[@Skyking549]

18:47 i wanna add to this. I agree with all of it. However also note that kristoff doesnt need to do ANY of this for phoenix to be disbarred unfairly. I mean this in the stricktest possible terms. Even by the 3rd game after everything phoenix has done he still has to claw at every pressed question. With the judge. He still cant have access to the crime scenes unless no one is there to stop him or nepotism allos him a vrief moment of reprieve. Phoenix IS JOT LEGALLY ALLOWED TO INVESTIGATE THE CRIMES HE IS REQUIRED TO ARGUE. Nick cant talk out of line. But the prosecution can literally run the court room. Prosecution does ALOT for the PW universe. They are seen as heroes for putting criminals behind bars. While defense attorneys are wild card to the public. To them they are seen as someone helping possible criminals go back out onto the streets. Prosecution gets an office at the DA sharing a parking lot with the police. They make kore money. They get more respect. And they are given more leniency. People underplay how harsh the world is evcause we keep winning. But remember ever time gumshoe shouts us out of a room and we annoyingly go look in another area till gumshoe leaves so we can finally get some real fucking investigation going. So why would anyone give phoenix the benefit of the doubt? Fuck hos hostory ajd his record. His history and record didnt matter even up untill the very last trial of the third game. If you believe that kristoff also did all the other shit to guarantee it. Phoenix stood no chance.

[@Skyking549]

I think my one other addition is that apollo didnt get slighted in his role in the story. But he got slighted his character moments. We dont get to see him react to learning about trucy being his sister and from a magician family. How his bloodline power works to him. He doesnt need to learn Lamiroir is his mom. That was handled perfectly. But we and presumably apollo learn about him and trucys blood relation through the computer program. And apollo has no say in those moments. Even the little nods about trucy knowing about her dad are a bit under baked. Not because she doesnt have a strong attachment to zak. But because she is already too mature for any of it to matter. Trucy is an adult at 15 and she never ever really got to be a kid and this was the moment to give her her childhood and she rejects that immediately. There is no character arc. She was fully formed and fully grown from the moment apollo met her. Till the end of the game. And that felt cold in a way to a character who DOES feel alot of emotions about the world around her. The way she ignores her own world, within the world around her.... It would be frightening honestly.

[@davidwhidden9337]

Pheonix at his best, because he isn't written as a bumbling fool to give hints to the player on what to do. He is a man who has nothing left to lose and everything to gain.

[@rainblue4789]

Hobo Nick became my biggest crush in the franchise way back when AJ released and I didn't understand why until I replayed it and T&T in the trilogy releases Everything about the man just suddenly makes so much sense after seeing him from the eyes of others

[@XxSherlockianHeroxX]

I always wonder where Shu Takumi would’ve taken the series if he continued writing. Like, I feel like the jury system in PLvPW and TGAA was him figuring it out, but I think it would’ve had more impact if it was in DD; the way that AJ (the game) didn’t get to flourish on some of the game’s ideas always makes me yearn for what could’ve been. Like, Phoenix learning to be an actual mentor to Apollo. Or like developing a “post-Kristoph” Klavier.

[@vishalkote1475]

With the fact that you only have 2 days to have a trial and the prosecution can win with only an eyewitness and nothing else no wonder phoenix bluffs so much. It’s literally his only option.

[@justinweber4977]

I haven't played the sequels to Apollo Justice, but i did enjoy "Chessmaster Phoenix". It was nice seeing this guy who was always on the back foot and desperately playing catch up to be the one pulling strings and setting up the surprises.

[@NetzachEnjoyer]

This was a great vid. Thanks for making it!

[@natyfop]

I agree 100%! Well maybe 90% because I still wanted Apollo to do more in 4-4, and I also think DD did not convey the conflict between Apollo and Phoenix very well. But man, do I love hobo Phoenix! I remember not liking AA4 much when I was younger, but after growing up this game really grew on me, it's probably my favorite main plot in the main series.

[@naroIo]

ace attorney fans rejoice, a good retrospective video on hobo wright has come

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I'm sure a better channel than mine has done this but I personally couldn't find one. So I wanted to make it myself. That's actually how a lot of my videos go

[@Cinnamowo]

Apollo Justice is still my favourite game in the series. I was sceptical about it at the beginning, cause I thought that was the game where the series significantly changed, but I was glad to find out how much of a great ending for the series it kinda was. It had the best first case that perfectly sets the atmosphere of this game, and the overarching plot was tied up pretty nicely. Phoenix was the highlight tho. I was worried at first, but he quickly made me realise that yes, this is his peak. Defeating Kristoph is probably the most satisfying feeling I had while playing through these games Still not sure about ever playing DD and SoJ, but I'm happy that Apollo Justice was so fun and interesting

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Haven't played SoJ but DD is quite good. I think it does very obviously course correct, but in terms of character writing, especially for Apollo, it's really great. Apollo had started being my favorite attorney in the series in his own game, but it was DD that sealed it. He has a great rapport with the new attorney Athena as well

[@Cleverconveyence]

That first time in AJ when Phoenix breaks out the finger the first time gave me fill body chills. So good.

[@hailthequeenFM]

2:27 I thought this was Will Powers. I was doing things, and when I heard that line, I thought Will Powers my beloved.

[@lilstankeroni]

based will powers enjoyer

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

Will Powers is great, love him. But he's not a man I could fix

[@brendanhughes5679]

Great video, glad to see the hobo Phoenix agenda getting pushed. I heavily disagree with one thing though: Phoenix was NOT a constant bluffer. I have no idea how he even got associated with bluffing so much to begin with, but it’s gotten to the point where that’s seemingly all he’s known for in universe instead of, you know, how he’s actually a really smart dude who wins his cases with his insane wit and intellect. There are instances where he is reliant on bluffing, don’t get me wrong. Some are actual bluffs that stem from a random idea (like wondering out loud about the bullet in 1-4) and others are actual strategic decisions (lying about evidence to get Furio to confess in 3-3), but this is not at all his entire strategy and I literally don’t know why people think it is. Do fans think that if Phoenix isn’t always on the correct line of thinking then it’s a bluff? Is he not allowed to go down multiple avenues before reaching the truth? Do people consider it a bluff for him to not immediately know the full truth or something??? Sorry for the essay but this frustrates me SO much. It’s gotten so bad that’s is literally hindered his character post AJ. Even HE thinks that he’s only relied on bluffing now. It’s pathetic.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I agree. He does bluff, I mean he has to, he only gets 2 days at most to learn about his cases. But it's never the bluffing that wins him cases, it's his intellect and ability to figure out the truth that wins him cases. That's why I love him here, he has the time, he doesn't need to work on the fly, and that's a really cool thing to look into when it comes to Phoenix

[@hollowsonictale702]

Apollo justice has the best objection theme. Fight me.

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I really really want to agree but it depends on the day for me, and right now it's Phoenix's from TaT and DD. But considering DD has both of them I'm happy either way

[@Tasoq]

I always thought the disbarment made no sense, but with what you said and other people saying that the law in the AA universe tends to favour prosecution over defence, it makes sense now. You bring up some great points in this. (also, 23:14 cracked me up)

[@renasalma]

great video! AA4 is also my second fave in the series & Phoenix IS at his best in it. it's such an interesting turn for his character without actually... breaking his character. he's the same dude in a new circumstance & position, & the way he's presented is so seamless. it's awesome

[@beenblack90]

Damn it's good to hear an opinion of this game that reflects mine. This is the Ace Attorney game that stuck with me the most.

[@FluppietheRockruffFan]

This man has a mental will of steel to keep going after that, he's seen and experienced alot of tragedies, some being related to someone very close to him, became homeless hobo with a daughter, and yet he comes back as a defense attorney against all odds. Mia wasn't wrong when she felt something special about Nick the first time they met.

[@sunnymoons-moonlitstars]

Absolutely banger video. Beanix my love, I miss you every day

[@SonsaKay]

Cool points! It's really cool Kristoph got Phoenix to present the forged evidence too, by taking advantage of his trusting nature, it feels so classic Ace Attorney for Phoenix to pick up some clue from wherever or be given some thing that, who knows, might be relevant later - like the paper "Maya" was written on that also happened to be a receipt for the light stand, or the DL-6 bullet that just sat in the court record until it happened to be useful in being able to match up with the other in Von Karma's shoulder, or the bottle of the dude's ear medicine that Phoenix bluffs is where Tigre put the poison to get him to admit to where he actually put it - Kristoph gets Trucy to give Phoenix this random thing that, who knows, might be the perfect thing for later, and Phoenix puts it perfectly after making the mistake "It was careless of me. That's all I can say." And all that would make sense in him seeming less trusting, more secretive, more careful, more seemingly sinister!

[@RoyG.BivDevoe]

I agree that Phoenix performed at his best in Apollo Justice, but I feel that Phoenix's refusal to be candid with his friends about his past and his feelings are different than how Phoenix does it in Apollo Justice. He has applied his vagueness and refusal to be candid for a much more calculated goal, we've already seen the discourse that Phoenix has wrestled with how the court system favors prosecutors and how the suspects in each case are guilty until PROVEN innocent, instead of it being innocent until PROVEN guilty. Phoenix's reaction to Edgeworth missing for a year was more emotionally charged than calculated, same with his whole ordeal with Dahlia Hawthorne. His reaction and how he phrased Edgeworths disappearance was over the top, even for him, which is one of the things I didn't like about Justice For All. Did he forget that Miles went through *a lot* during the DL-6 Incident, and you as the player can actively see when Edgeworth begins to question what it means to be a prosecutor. Him going on hiatus to figure that out for himself was justfied, sure he probably should've kept in communication with his childhood friend, but that was Edgeworth's choice not to. I liked how Phoenix played the game, I wasn't at all caught off guard in how the game came to light I was surprised in how the game developed. I know that Phoenix is very smart, even though he comes off as blundering dunder head most of the time, so seeing him being somewhat cynically calculating was a bit of a suprise for me but not by much, but I get why some fans of the franchise found his change a bit daunting.

[@hamtier]

i always felt the interpertation of phoenix as he's perceived by a third person was pretty obvous. but despite that people can still dislike it, i never imagined people never got that and assumed he had changed completely and since i played apollo justice when i was 15 i never thought too much about how phoenix was involved with the jurors system so this video did add alot to my understanding of the game. thank you!

[@typicalybaenjoyer7530]

Phoenix really was a different breed in Apollo justice

[@pallpksp9142]

Currently replaying case 1 of Apollo Justice and now realize that the dialogues have so much depths

[@edentitycrisis]

this is my favorite game in the series, and am always so happy to hear people defending it. would love to hear you talk more about it!

[@ColeTheFactGuy]

I am planning to eventually come back to this series. Primarily I'd like to eventually do a video on the Gramayres or Godot. Can't say it won't be a while though considering my topics are almost always just what my hyperfixation is that week

[@itsdantaylor]

4:09 I think that's kind of the reason why, I didn't mind the character shift in Apollo Justice, but I think I would have preferred it if we didn't basically put Klavier behind bars in the first trial, if it was some kind of long ongoing plan of Phoenix to right a injustice and it ended with Klavier behind bars I think it may have hit a gone down a bit better then just putting behind even MORE bars at the end of the last trial.

[@aslsander7796]

The thing that makes this game is amazing is we get to see how others view Phoenix

[@harrya9458]

This video is incredibly cathartic for me. Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney is by and far my favorite game in the entire series. Yeah, there’s varying quality in the individual cases, but what it lacks in certain smaller stories, it more than makes up for in telling the most ambitious story in the entire series. Yeah, the next two games kinda get at a big overarching story, too, but they are pretty straightforward, though definitely compelling. DD is about healing from trauma and learning to have faith again, represented by Athena and Simon, respectively, with a touch of Apollo, and SoJ is about revolution and the passing on the torch to new generations, which is all about the Khurain family and Apollo. AJAA though, is more subversive and subtle in its storytelling. Nothing is outright explained to you until the final case, but you can see the hints of something bigger brewing. The whole dynamic between Phoenix and Kristoph is also shown mostly through context clues and connected together by the events shown in the final case. It feels like a political thriller every step of the way, and you get to see the relatively lighthearted franchise from before in a new, much more nuanced light

[@thebrightdiamondtp7871]

I love Nick's dad humor, like in case 2 he jokingly tells Apollo he's in need of his legal duties to sue the driver who hit him with their car

[@deletedTestimony]

Thanks Nern, perfect reading and excellent analysis. You even tastefully sidestepped the absolutely in character nature of Phoenix to be a parent through, specifically, adoption. Bravo.

[@TankTheDragon]

"If you exist in this universe, you're either a murderer or someone will accuse you of murder." There's a 3rd group, murder victims, don't forget them, we wouldn't have a game without them

[@interrobangings]

hobo nick was also kinda 😳👉👈

[@lightyoshiman]

Phonenix really lived up to his nickname Kristoph really though he killed his career and by extension him but a phonenix always rises up again and that's what eventually happened what's even funnier is that kristoph actually gave phonenix more lean way to screw him over later because Nick wasn't a defense lawyer anymore he was able to get around the system a bit easier and prove how flawed it was

[@HolyDemonSnap]

My headcanon is that Phoenix was actually working with people in the law system to further collect evidence on Kristoph and others. Like the Judge, Miles, Franziska, etc. I figure they were all helping him in the background and maybe even Maya with occasional spirit channelings if she could manage it. Also as far as Kristoph's pettiness goes. You ever notice how his brother Klavier has an upside down magatama necklace, just more-so a mimickry of one? Since the Magatama is meant to be similar to a dragon's tooth, Klavier has an upside down magatama that's probably meant to be more-so symbolic than literal. If Klavier and Kristoph are descended from the Fey Clan or Khurain, it's possible that Klavier is recognized above Kristoph and this makes him insanely jealous to the point of pettiness elsewhere.

[@stelardactek]

I'm so happy to see someone agree with me on this, and so eloquently. Nice job! Tangentially related, it's a shame that in subsequent games they decided to attribute the special abilities of Apollo and Athena to objects, even though both were introduced as personal skills.

[@shiromatsunoki]

This is such a great video. As someone who is also a huge fan of the Apollo Justice game and the titular character (altho that in part is because it was my first-ever Ace Attorney game) Phoenix's change in this game felt like such an interesting development of his character. While a part of me does wish "hobo phoenix" stuck around for future games, I do like how you justify him becoming a lawyer again in Dual Destinies and onward. Again, the biggest reason Phoenix feels so out of character even though he isn't is because we're not in control of him for this game.

[@BluenVlogit]

While Apollo Justice has many flaws in some of its case designs, the over looming mystery of Phoenix's hobo arc and everything that happened 7 years prior to the start of the game is so interesting that it will forever be my favorite Ace Attorney game. You get to see Phoenix's 5D chess from the outside view that makes the man seen quite a bit scary in my opinion. That and Case 4 has some really fun gameplay mechanics like hopping between present and 7 years before in the timeline to reconstruct the evidence. Glad to see people show love for AA4 ❤

[@polvuz]

great video! thank you for putting my exact thoughts into words and say them aloud lol. one thing tho that I never understood was how people were against phoenix's attitude changes; saying it didn't make sense or smth. like what? don't they know how awful was of an experience to phoenix to be disbarred? over a tiny thing like that? phoenix was more than willing to devote his whole life to be a lawyer, and then something as stupidly unfair as this is what made him irredeemable in the eyes of the law. the judge didn't even let him explain himself! phoenix said "if I did explain, would the court listen?" (smth like that) and the judge said NO. that had to be life changing for him. he just poured his heart for years (and was determined to continue to do so) and they just cast him out as if he never mattered. yeah no surprise he acts like the law doesn't see him as a human being. because it really doesn't. it never did. idk it just bother me how people never got how betrayed he must have felt. his passion tossed him aside and asked for him to not come back. I'd go unhinged too